Car Tag Evangelism
South Carolina’s state legislature has approved placing the image of a cross on auto license tags in that state. My initial reaction to that decision was negative. I saw it as a violation of the First Amendment that entangled institutions of religion and government in an unconstitutional manner. Securing more information on the matter required me to take a second look at the policy.
Government has no business using its power or money in a manner that singles out one religion over another and suggests the government’s endorsement of that religion. However, the South Carolina legislature already has waded into this constitutional brier patch, having already approved a special license plate for Secular Humanists. I have learned that the state of South Carolina is neither spending public money to produce the “I Believe” license plates nor making any profit off their production. Purchasers of the auto tags are paying the exact cost involved in producing the tags.
But there still might be a religious liberty problem here.
Though Christians and Humanists have received a vote of confidence from the Legislature, no assurance exists that, in the future, other faith traditions will receive fair treatment. Imagine the debate over a Muslim license plate. When a government body makes political judgments about different religious traditions, the sanctity of religion is undermined.
This particular piece of legislation in this specific state seems to walk carefully a tightrope of legality. But serious questions remain as to why any branch of any government wants to use license plates to publicize religious beliefs.
Does not the government have other work to do that is more important in and appropriate to its functions? Given the mortgage crisis, an economy teetering on the edge of inflation, joblessness, the status of public education, it boggles the mind that any legislature would debate crosses on a license plate.
As a minister, I have to question the benefit of placing an image of a sacred symbol on a motor vehicle tag. The license plate does not explain the meaning of the cross to those unaware of its importance in Christianity. The license plate placards the statement “I Believe” but does not say what that belief is. Is this a proper and effective medium of Christian witness?
Frankly, I see a real downside to such a license plate. What will it say about Christian fidelity for passersby to see a car with a Christian-oriented license plate operated by a driver who has been pulled over for speeding or some other legal infraction? Jesus admonished his followers to obey the law. Imagine the thoughts of a driver who gets nearly blown off the road by a passing car going thirty miles over the speed limit and driving recklessly. I know that many Christians are taught that we are all sinners, but this is ridiculous.
Of course, religious license plates may be such a boon that they inspire a new childhood car game—count the crosses or count the humanists or count the Wiccan pentacles that appear on various vehicles. Sure, the Christians will win every time because there are so many of them. In fact, it may be that various segments of Christianity want their own license plates so that they will not be confused. Will counters of the symbols decide that Methodists drive more expensive cars than Baptists? And, what if license become highway posters for doctrines—“Closed Communion,” “Pro War,” “Baptism by Immersion,” or “Tithe!” What a sad commentary on religion all this would be.
Frankly, the South Carolina decision will not really help the institution of government or the institutions of religion. It will only allow more confusion about the relationship between religion and government. And, my guess is that, if studied carefully, some government money (salaries, administration, and the like) is probably involved in the costs required to distribute license plates.
Is the South Carolina decision legal? From where I sit, probably. But, remember, not everything legal is best for the nation or for religion.
By
Welton Gaddy
|
June 12, 2008; 8:47 AM ET
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Posted by: buhuchet | July 9, 2008 11:17 PM
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AS IAM A CHRISTIAN,I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE THE TAG,HOWEVER FOR THOSE WITH DIFFRENT VEIWS AND DIFFERENT FAITHS,ITS HARD TO PUT THAT ON THEM,I WOULDENT WANT SOMEONE ELES'S FAITH PUT ON ME,SO I THINK THEY SHOULD OFFER IT TO THOSE WHO WANT IT.
Posted by: PHILLIP DAVIS | June 25, 2008 5:19 PM
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I mean, know what's the *sad* fact, Spidey?
as much as you bluster and condemn and think yourself mighty about whatever's in your waistband this week, say, a license plate, you know what's pathetic about it?
There's always someone like you braying about how the end of the world is just around the corner.
Always.
Any you know the saddest thing about it?
World ain't ending.
You're just afraid to die alone.
Would you like me to hold your hand? I mean it.
Posted by: Paganplace | June 13, 2008 11:15 PM
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Well, that's interesting, Spidey.
You' living for someone shooting 'missiles' at you, or you feel like that's *your* job, 'Christian?'
Your lot, you *alway* figure the end of the world's gonna show up before you see the effects of your own actions.
Always.
Ain't happened yet. Though there's been a million like you squalling for it.
You really wanna bet, or you just looking for permission for something?
Is that something any good?
Or is it just you?
Posted by: Paganplace | June 13, 2008 11:09 PM
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You know Pagan, you talk a lot. Let's just wait for the time. Give it 10 years and let's see how your loud mouth catch the missiles going your way.
The word of God is like a straight arrow. It always hit the target straight. You guys don't have a clue even if that arrow is right in your face already.
If words can't convince you, God knows fire will. Just wait for it. It's coming.
The Bible stated that whole cities will burn. How can cities burn when they're made of steel and concrete? Nukes were not present when the scripture were written. But it's there for a purpose. TO OBEY THE SCRIPTURE. NOBODY CAN STOP THE PROPHECY.
So talk while you're allowed to talk. Do you really believe the bees are there and emerged from nowhere? A Higher Intelligence is listening. That Supreme Being is writing every bit of your word. Knowing how severe your punishment will be, I pity you and everyone who makes a fool of themselves.
Posted by: spiderman2 | June 13, 2008 9:17 PM
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I mean, just in case you had any kind of reason to feel there was an reasom to have an kind of sense of all-fired *urgency* about figuring out any sort of thing about how to 'love your neighhbor,' I mean, no pressure or nothing,, but..
Hey.
Small steps, spud.
Not to offend yer righteousness or nuffin.
Posted by: Paganplace | June 13, 2008 9:09 PM
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Yeah, Spidey:
"Dogs meow and cats bark."
And sheep will lie down with lions and wonder WTF you were ranting apocalyptically about.
Would you like to wake up, now, or shall we hit yer snooze bar, Christian?
Posted by: Paganplace | June 13, 2008 8:48 PM
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"Mr. Gaddy is NOT a Christian but a minister of Satan just like the pope."
Wow, Spidey... Don't suppose that if the 'Pope ain't Catholic...' you Christians couldn't work some stuff out amongst ourselves befere ou go trying to give *me* a hard time about it?
Maybe a little patience would enhance that 'Divine Will' effect you're shooting for, or something.
Pardon if in the meanwhile, I'm figuring laws that demand obeisance to the Bible don't *actually* represent Ultimate good.
They surely don't even to *you,* do they?
Ooops.
Maybe you just need another fifteen hundred years or so for your 'Absolute Right' to start resulting in good decisions.
Take your time.
Could be there'll be a world to complain about by then.
Go figure.
Posted by: Paganplace | June 13, 2008 8:42 PM
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Arminius wrote " Jesus is a liberal".
Some people just can't resist making a fool of themselves. Dogs meow and cats bark. "Hello kitty" so they say as the tiger is ready to pounce on them.
Posted by: spiderman2 | June 13, 2008 6:22 PM
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Paganplace wrote "I mean, maybe the Reverend here is most worried about 'damage to Christianity' "
Mr. Gaddy is NOT a Christian but a minister of Satan just like the pope. 'Damage to Christianity' is really their main business.
You were a former Catholic and most atheists or pagans are former Catholics. Can't you see trend there?
Let me make this clear. Im not against Catholics. Im only against the doctrine of Catholicism. Hating the disease is not hating the person who has the disease.
Posted by: spiderman2 | June 13, 2008 6:04 PM
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Fate wrote "So before I interpret the bible in order to believe in God's message, I must already believe in God, which I cannot do without first reading the bible, which I cannot interpret properly since I must first believe in God."
You can't be a pilot unless you believe that the plane can really fly and able to lift you up. When Christ healed the blind, He first asked, "Do you believe?". The blind men replied, "Yes, Lord we believe".
" And when he was come into the house, the blind men came to him: and Jesus saith unto them, Believe ye that I am able to do this? They said unto him, Yea, Lord. Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you. " (Matthew 9:28)
Fate, your attitude will hinder you from understanding the Bible. Unless you change your attitude, it's almost IMPOSSIBLE that you'd be able understand it.
Posted by: spiderman2 | June 13, 2008 5:55 PM
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Maybe read your Ecclesiastes...
They're called 'Vanity plates' for a reason.
Ooogabooga! :)
Posted by: Paganplace | June 13, 2008 4:42 PM
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And, yeah, on that, it doesn't seem like much, but it adds up real quick. In an energy crisis, we all pay to push and cart that nonsense around, never mind trying to add more.
Posted by: Paganplace | June 13, 2008 1:45 PM
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Mind you, I do still think that if we want to fuss over license plates, maybe we ought to consider how many tons of steel, and wind-catching surface area that motor vehicles are carrying around in order to carry pointless 'advertising,' while the actual legibility they were made for decreases by the election year.
Gods.
Posted by: Paganplace | June 13, 2008 1:43 PM
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Oh, yeah, and if Wiccans *really* wanted to target our vehicles for how the lawmen treat Wiccans, no, it *wouldn't* be so easy to get such plates issued...
Even in a hawkish administration, our *war dead* couldn't get a pent on their graves for twenty years.
Get real.
Posted by: Paganplace | June 13, 2008 1:38 PM
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Hi, Arminius!
And, well, I guess it's so. I certainly don't think state-issued objects should be accentuating societal divisions when they're supposed to be part of 'Liberty And Justice For All.'
I think it's way over the line. Meant to be, too. Meant to claim some 'territory' more than it's about anyone actually having a hard time putting a cross on their car without state support.
It's rying to claim government, and in a way meant to make others less-favored.
Really.
You can talk about 'Sure, we'd let you put a pentacle on your license plate so a cop can be sure to pull you over and send you to traffic court cause you can't prove you didn't roll that stop sign,'
But it's not the same thing, and they know it.
I'm not someone who wouldn't want Christmas lights on the town clerk's office, ...that's charming.
But this is different. Just like it's different to put graven words in between the people and the courthouse that overtly *command* people who and who not to worship.
Not sure some folks understand this principle... They just want what they want cause they think it's a 'war.'
But, the Reverend's right about one thing: Put a sanctimonious sticker on your car and drive inconsiderately, it does not impress people with 'Holiness.'
Making it a state-issued religious talisman won't change that.
Why's that a priority again?
Posted by: Paganplace | June 13, 2008 1:36 PM
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Hi, Paganplace,
I do note the possibility for selective enforcement. DWJ(driving while Jewish), DWP(driving while Pagan), etc. I have seriously considered getting my favorite bumper sticker, 'Jesus is a Liberal', but fear being pulled over for DWL. I live in the most red county in a very red state.
Arminius
Posted by: Arminius | June 13, 2008 1:24 PM
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I mean, maybe the Reverend here is most worried about 'damage to Christianity' when inconsiderate or scofflaw drivers are wagging a cross on the vehicular equivalent of their behinds, but, hey, as it is I've seen enough three-ton duallies with bumperstickers that gloat, "I believe so much I think this future-guzzling show of testosterone blowing by you may become unpiloted and crash into your house, ha, ha, infidel!"
The real issue is one that you see enough of already, ...Cops that are told bad things about nonbelievers in their way are predisposed to ...use that badge in particular ways.
A vehicle tag should remain religiously neutral, lest such behavior seem even more sanctioned by a state.
I would think, if a Christian is *really* all burned up about their number plate not showing enough piety, it could say, 'Hey, love the poor,' or 'Show some consideration, neighbor,'
not broadcasting they have divine and exclusive access to goodness and light while goosing their Camaro or whatever.
...but.. guess that's not the world right now.
Posted by: Paganplace | June 13, 2008 1:22 PM
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I dunno, Fate, last I heard about 'Holy,' it wasn't up to the DMV.
Still wondering if anyone notes the big potential for selective enforcement involved in state-issued religious symbols, here, as I mentioned below.
Posted by: Paganplace | June 13, 2008 12:54 PM
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spiderman2 wrote: "Anything that is Holy should be approached with utmost respect. It's not an ordinary book and no ordinary mind can interpret it unless guided by the Author Himself."
So before I interpret the bible in order to believe in God's message, I must already believe in God, which I cannot do without first reading the bible, which I cannot interpret properly since I must first believe in God. Just where do you come up with this stuff? Why are the deeply religious so ready to make silly statements and set such silly conditions to defend the fantasy?
Posted by: Fate | June 13, 2008 12:25 PM
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Brambleton,
Let me ask you what you would explain to students studying "Catcher in the Rye" if the book was being interpreted to cover 3 years of Holden's life by one teacher, 3 months by another and three minutes by yet another, and not three days of Holden's life stated in the book. What if in one chapter we read that Holden's brother Allie died of luekemia, but in another chapter read that he died in a car accident? And what if you went from literature professor to literature professor and found that certain chapters were being interpreted completely differently, some taking the words literally and others considering them to be just metaphors with completely different meanings, and others bending the meanings when they do not fit with reality, so in the end, almost everyone has a completely different view of Catcher though everyone agrees it is a good book about a kid named Holden. Now you are getting close to how the bible is interpreted.
For example, I have read many ideas on how kangaroos made it off the ark and to Australia without leaving a bone on the way and somehow swimming the ocean, yet all disagree with what the bible says. I have read how dinosaurs died in the flood but the bible says all animals made it on the ark, so saying they died in the flood contradicts the clear statement of the bible, and no one seems to care that such mischaracterizations of the Word are going on. Its almost as though people like the fantasy and want to keep it going, at all cost, even if they have to make stuff up along the way.
Posted by: Fate | June 13, 2008 11:56 AM
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Rev. Gaddy, I agree with you.
Our founding fathers had a good reason to set up the separation of church and state.
It's obvious from our recent experience that they were prescient.
Here in Texas, we are having our usual struggle with textbooks for public schools.
Our area elected a numbskull who home-schools his kids, placing him in a position to decide what our public school children should be using, according to his personal religious proclivities.
The proponents of creationism are trying to turn our schools into proselytizing agencies, after which our children will not be accepted into major educational institutions for career paths to degrees in science, medicine, archeology, etc.
Texas has been warned by its own state-run universities, but no.
The State School Board seems to think it knows better.
By taking up this issue as a mantle of religious purity, they are driving our best and brightest away from a good public-school education, triggering lawsuits bogging down our schools and wasting taxpayer money on this frivolous issue.
Thank you for highlighting one more incursion trying to destroy our treasured separation of church and state.
Thank you also for stepping in to support it.
Separation of church and state protects all of us, whatever religious persuasion we espouse, by affording us the right to worship in the religious foundation of our families or that of our own choosing as adults.
Posted by: Judy-in-TX | June 13, 2008 11:38 AM
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" Choirboy:
The cross is a lost symbol even to Christians. Let's say that instead of having been capitally executed 2000 years ago Jesus had been executed in these times. "
Be fair, choirboy, ...even as a horrible method of execution, the cross had more symbolic value than that: traitors were crucified cause it symbolized being suspended between Earth and Sky, ...not that that makes it any nicer. But it meant that a traitor had put himself above the world, if you will.
Probably for this reason it *wasn't* much-used as a symbol by the early Christians: they went with the fish or the Chi Rho symbol, (this is actually what Constantine claimed to seein the sky, not the cross) ...in Celtic lands, such symbols were fairly familiar as a symbol of a *union* of Earth and Sky, if you will, (not symbols of execution, the lower limb was longer cause...the were supposed to be up high) and, by removing the solar disk, it seems to have gained some popularity from there.
More symbolic meaning than an electic chair, though. :)
Posted by: Paganplace | June 13, 2008 11:35 AM
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Actually, Reverend... Something you may not have considered:
"What will it say about Christian fidelity for passersby to see a car with a Christian-oriented license plate operated by a driver who has been pulled over for speeding or some other legal infraction?"
How many *won't* be because an officer is biased toward giving fellow evangelicals a break?
"count the Wiccan pentacles that appear on various vehicles. "
Actually, in states like South Carolina, particularly, there have been instances where cars were *pulled over* and tossed cause they displayed Pagan bumperstickers... such things are all too often an invitation to selective enforcement, hassling of non-Christians, or, even unintentional subconscious bias. For this reason alone, the state shouldn't be in the business of providing such invitations...
If you want to broadcast your religious affiliation with a motor vehicle, I commend Christians to the many fine adhesive products that are already in common use. Making evangelical affiliation a matter of public record is not only unnecessary, it contributes, I think, to an ongoing trend where so much space on a license plate is devoted to anything but the *purpose* of a license plate, that the actual numbers have often become difficult to read.
Frankly, in an energy crisis like this, states ought to be *trimming the fat* off the things, not taking up more space with useless advertising.
Small pet peeve of mine that in states that mandate front plates, you see all these wonderfully-aerodynamic vehicles with a big squarish piece of metal stuck on the front, with ever-more-illegible numbers on them, so we can be sure to remember someplace is the 'First in Flight' or 'Birthplace of aviation.'
Come on. Seriously. :)
Posted by: Paganplace | June 13, 2008 11:17 AM
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Fate,
Regarding the interpretation of the Bible, I'll use the following example. Take a group of high school students who are assigned the task of reading Catcher in the Rye. Great book. Certainly, all of the students have the ability to read and understand the text and grammar being used. But does that mean that every student will discover the nuances of each of the character's? Does that mean every student will interpret the plot and story line in the exact same way? Of course not.
Posted by: Brambleton | June 13, 2008 9:54 AM
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Fate wrote "Why would our God make the bible so difficult to interpret"
Because some people are very hard to teach. Those who don't believe, skeptic or doesn't have the right attitude are left in the dark groping for an answer while those who sincerely seek are guided accordingly.
Anything that is Holy should be approached with utmost respect. It's not an ordinary book and no ordinary mind can interpret it unless guided by the Author Himself.
Posted by: spiderman2 | June 13, 2008 9:41 AM
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I like the idea so I know who I am dealing with. When I lived in Colorado Springs, a business card with a fish on it usually meant the people would not deal with me fairly and would not pay on time. The cross license plate would identify neochristian posers and pretenders with arrogant super-egos who will probably drive aggressively.
Many will use it to keep from being pulled over by fellow neochristian SC police. My young friend in VA had a big SAY NO TO DRUGS bumper sticker to prevent him from being pulled over as he drove around smoking pot.
Posted by: Roy | June 13, 2008 7:46 AM
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Предлагаю своим клиентам полноценное бухгалтерское сопровождение, то есть ведение бухгалтерского учета на предприятии в полном или частичном объеме:
- Ведение бухгалтерского и налогового учета
- Восстановление бухгалтерского и налогового учета.
- Расчет заработной платы, отпускных, пособий и прочих выплат; подготовка всей необходимой для выплаты заработной платы документации
- Подготовка и сдача отчетности (в т.ч. «нулевая» отчетность со сдачей в ИФНС и фонды)
- Консультации по вопросам ведения бухгалтерского и налогового учета
- Автоматизация учета на базе программ 1С
- Ведение отчетности предпринимателей (ИП) и предприятий, работающих по УСНО (упрощенная система налогообложения).
Индивидуальный подход.
Россия, Москва
Телефон: 8-926-138-11-10
Контактное лицо: Виктория
e-mail: buhu4et@list.ru
сайт: http://www.buhu4et.nm.ru
Posted by: buhuchet | June 13, 2008 7:02 AM
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South Carolina should offer a counter-message license plate for atheists. Here's one: "I don't think like a child."
Posted by: Pierre JC | June 13, 2008 4:13 AM
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spiderman2 wrote: "Many people interpret the Bible wrongly. They are comparable to people with defective vision but instead of treating their eyes they blame their surroundings for being too blurred."
Just what does that mean? Does it mean the bible is written in code? Are some parts written to trick us? Why would our God make the bible so difficult to interpret, especially when some of it is pretty clear, such as the story of the flood and how it would be impossible, based on what the bible clearly states, for animals to be in North America and Australia. If you have some keen insight, I'd really like to know what I'm interpreting wrong and why the bible would say something that clearly cannot be true.
spiderman2 wrote: "The only person qualified to interpret creation in the Bible would be the first person who can transform soil into a fullfleged live flying bee."
And why is that? Do you just make this stuff up? I mean, why would someone need to do that to interpret biblical creation. What you are saying is that the bible is not correct. Actually, you are saying it is more than incorrect, it is misleading. Again, why would our God mislead us with His own words?
spiderman2 wrote: "Do you understand that? It means don't say the Bible is wrong in its creation account unless you understand creation itself."
Then why did God write it down? I assume He wanted us to understand creation. But when you look at His words, and then look at His creation, there is a lot of contradiction. His words do not agree with reality. Again, why would God mislead or lie?
spiderman2 wrote: "In short, if you have nothing good to say about it, it is always best to keep quiet."
Ah, the typical response from the believer when they cannot explain something their faith expresses as truth: "shut up". Well, sorry, I have read the bible more than you could know, and probably more than you have. It is not only wrong in many places, it contradicts itself. You seem to believe there was a creation but not the one the bible describes. Where did you get your understanding of creation if not from the bible, God's own words?
spiderman2 wrote: "It's like somebody playing the trumpet who has just seen it for the first time. Very irritating."
Oh, you mean like someone telling me I cannot understand the word of God unless I were God Himself, but you, the smart one, know it all, because you can understand what others cannot? You sound like the kid who thinks he knows how to play the trumpet so well he practices outdoors so everyone can hear how well he plays, only to see people laugh and cover their ears against the noise.
Posted by: Fate | June 12, 2008 11:03 PM
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Fate wrote "If the bible is not correct in genesis, where else is it wrong?"
Read this :
Many people interpret the Bible wrongly. They are comparable to people with defective vision but instead of treating their eyes they blame their surroundings for being too blurred.
The only person qualified to interpret creation in the Bible would be the first person who can transform soil into a fullfleged live flying bee.
Do you understand that? It means don't say the Bible is wrong in its creation account unless you understand creation itself.
In short, if you have nothing good to say about it, it is always best to keep quiet.
It's like somebody playing the trumpet who has just seen it for the first time. Very irritating.
Posted by: spiderman2 | June 12, 2008 10:41 PM
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The cross is a lost symbol even to Christians. Let's say that instead of having been capitally executed 2000 years ago Jesus had been executed in these times. Christians would then be putting electric chairs on their license plates, wearing them around their necks, making the sign of the electric chair, singing hymns about the old rugged electric chair and so on.
But Christianity is a materialistic religion and it has made of the most heinous of symbols (a cross) an icon of "respectability". I think it's a perfect statement of the actual Christian sentiment that it be placed on the believer's license plate. It shows just how ignorant most Christians are about their own symbols and how out of their ignorance they want us to think they are really super people for displaying an icon of capital punishment.
Posted by: Choirboy | June 12, 2008 10:20 PM
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spiderman2 wrote: "Fate, had it crossed in your mind that your interpretation of the bible could be wrong?"
Sure. I was just interpreting it literally, which would mean no animals, except those that could fly far or swim far, could have populated the Americas or Australia, New Zealand, etc. According to the literal bible, there should be no mammals or reptiles or bugs on continents other than Eurasia and Africa, yet there are. Also, there should be dinosaurs since the bible says they also made it onto the ark. Well, not specifically dinosaurs, just "all" animals that existed on earth, which must have included dinosaurs since we find their bones. So I have concluded genesis is not to be taken literally. If the bible is not correct in genesis, where else is it wrong?
Posted by: Fate | June 12, 2008 10:18 PM
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As I've said, nobody understands creation. If you do, then explain it to me. I'll be glad to listen. Next, we'll put it in my long list of science fiction.
Bees learned to fly thousands of years (maybe millions) before man. What's more amazing is, they don't crash land and doesn't need a helipad nor an airport. GPS or global positioning system? Name it and they have it.
I've seen a man-made toy mimicking a bee. It's so pathetic, they crash land all the time. Would that kind of intelligence tell me how bees or kangaroos came into being? Give me a break. I'd rather ask the bee.
Hello bee, what is your name?
Fate, had it crossed in your mind that your interpretation of the bible could be wrong?
Many people interpret the Bible wrongly. They are comparable to people with defective vision but instead of treating their eyes they blame their surroundings for being too blurred.
Posted by: spiderman2 | June 12, 2008 10:12 PM
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I see no problem with these plates as long as the government makes money off of it, which I suspect it will. As for the other faiths, if you get enough people interested where S. Carolina can make money off of you, then they should print your specialty plate as well.
"I Don't Believe", but the plate might come in handy for keeping fundy South Carolina cops off your back. It'll go along well with my "Choose Life" and "Bush/Cheney 2004" bumper stickers.
Posted by: Cletus | June 12, 2008 9:46 PM
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spiderman2 wrote: "Nobody understands creation. The Bible did not deal with it in detail."
The bible lays out creation very specificially. Is genesis incomplete or wrong?
spiderman2 wrote: "It means nobody understands how the kangaroo emerged."
Emerged is an evolutionary term, meannig the development of a species frmo another, or emerging from the other. Are you saying kangaroos emerged from a previous species? If so, I would agree.
spiderman2 wrote: "If somebody claims he knows, it is because that person remained a fool. And there are a lot of them. Do you know of one? Do you know somebody who knows how kangaroos existed? Of course you do. You are surrounded with fools."
What I know comes from the bible where it says all animals that exist today exist because they went onto the ark and thus survived the flood that killed all the animals except those on the ark. All animals that exist today are the result of the two animals of their kind that went onto the ark. All I am asking is how the kangaroos hopped to Australia after the ark landed, unless you think they did not.
Posted by: Fate | June 12, 2008 9:10 PM
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To all of you VANGUARDS, JJ's, Etc..
Those of you that throw around CAPITAL LETTERS with iMPUNiTY, lower case "i"s, and S"TRANGE" quote, with little grammatical {convent}ion...
Please, please tone it down. I try to read everything that's posted. I even try to read your scrawlings - little of which make much sense to me - to see if within the detritus there is meritous thought. Occasionally I find a nugget of wisdom, but the vast majority of your many disjointed lines are so very, very hard to follow. Forgive me for asking you to conform to some kind of literary convention - I don't want you to hamper your message, whatever it is - just make it easier for us unwashed masses to understand.
You'd be suprised how engaging the discussions can be. I welcome them anytime: bobcatarts(at)gmail(d0t)com
Posted by: RCG | June 12, 2008 8:48 PM
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Fate wrote "Can you tell me, since you are sooooo smart, how the kangaroos got to the ark to survive the flood, then disembarked and hopped back to Australia?"
Thanks for calling me smart. You're just being honest. But I attribute it to the Lord. He makes smart people. If you don't understand that, it means He taught me to be smart. I was a fool before but by His grace, Im smart now. I pity the fools who remained fools.
Nobody understands creation. The Bible did not deal with it in detail. It means nobody understands how the kangaroo emerged. If somebody claims he knows, it is because that person remained a fool. And there are a lot of them. Do you know of one? Do you know somebody who knows how kangaroos existed? Of course you do. You are surrounded with fools.
Ask Mr. Gaddy, Im sure he knows.
Posted by: spiderman2 | June 12, 2008 8:48 PM
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Fate wrote "Can you tell me, since you are sooooo smart, how the kangaroos got to the ark to survive the flood, then disembarked and hopped back to Australia?"
Thanks for calling me smart. You're just being honest. But I attribute it to the Lord. He makes smart people. If you don't understand that, it means He taught me to be smart. I was a fool before but by His grace, Im smart now. I pity the fools who remained fools.
Nobody understands creation. The Bible did not deal with it in detail. It means nobody understands how the kangaroo emerged. If somebody claims he knows, it is because that person remained a fool. And there are a lot of them. Do you know of one? Do you know somebody how kangaroos existed? Of course you do. You are surrounded with fools.
Ask Mr. Gaddy, Im sure he knows.
Posted by: spiderman2 | June 12, 2008 8:45 PM
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spiderman2 wrote: "Yeah, even a 5 year old know what that means. It just shows your STUPIDITY. I assume you believe that you came from a monkey, is that true?"
Hi spidy. Actually no one came from monkeys, we just have very distant relatives.
Can you tell me, since you are sooooo smart, how the kangaroos got to the ark to survive the flood, then disembarked and hopped back to Australia?
Posted by: Fate | June 12, 2008 8:32 PM
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WICCAN:
Federal law supercedes state law.
Not when it's a state-tax issue, which license plates are. Fed law just says we need tags. Let the states sort 'em out.
TIM & SIERRA:
I agree with you both. Let them put whatever they want, it's an expression/personalization issue - however - it does create confusion as to state-endorsement of one group or another. Could there be included codes on the plate, or symbols saying "PERSONALIZED TAG" or the like?
I say let the baby have his bottle. You want a pro-life plate? Big gaudy cross? Pentacle? Baby fur seal? Sure, you're going to pay extra, and that money goes to help the rapidly crumbling infrastructure. Bring the vanity plates on! Even to their logical conclusion: As long as it has the requisite data in a uniform font/layout that is legible, put whatever you want on it (barring legal state-sanctioned obscenity limits).
Personally, I want a license plate that's the same color as my car, like i see in all the commercials.
Posted by: RCG | June 12, 2008 8:28 PM
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Athena wrote: "For example, many states now have "Choose life" or other anti-choice license plates. Where are the pro-choice groups in all of this?"
The pro-choice groups, and other groups, do not need continued verification that what they believe in is correct. That is what the plate is for, to tell Christians in SC that they are part of a community, and you can tell those in the community apart from the rest of the horde during rush hour. I guess the fish symbol is not exclusive enough? I'm sure one day someone will do a study, such as how many DUIs citations are given to those with crosses on their plates versus those without them. If you want to stand out against the crowd, be prepared to be noticed.
Posted by: Fate | June 12, 2008 8:27 PM
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C. Welton Gaddy wrote "Sure, the Christians will win every time because there are so many of them."
WRONG. Not all the time coz the agents of the devil like you call themselves "christians" too. And you are many. VERY MANY. In fact atheist are confused and can't distinguish who's real and not anymore. Give as a favor. Side with the non-christians and don't call yourself Christian, would you?
Posted by: spiderman2 | June 12, 2008 8:25 PM
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C. Welton Gaddy wrote " The license plate placards the statement “I Believe” but does not say what that belief is. "
Yeah, even a 5 year old know what that means. It just shows your STUPIDITY. I assume you believe that you came from a monkey, is that true?
Posted by: spiderman2 | June 12, 2008 8:17 PM
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C. Welton Gaddy wrote "As a minister..."
More fitting if you had written "As a minister of SATAN..."
Wolf in sheep's clothing? IM VERY SURE, 100%, THIS IS THE MAN.
Posted by: spiderman2 | June 12, 2008 8:08 PM
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If you're that insecure about your religion that you need to display it on your vehicle, just buy a bumper sticker!
That being said, if you have a special license plate for one group, you have to allow groups with other points of view. For example, many states now have "Choose life" or other anti-choice license plates. Where are the pro-choice groups in all of this?
Posted by: Athena | June 12, 2008 4:50 PM
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It looks like the legisature specifically allowed the Humanist plate in order to advance its real agenda, which is to sanction and promote a specific type of Christianity.
With the Humanist plate around, they can appear 'fair and balanced.'
Posted by: Enemy Of The State | June 12, 2008 4:44 PM
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This will all end when jews, muslims and others want their particular symbol on the license plate too. SC will of course object in some way, probably saying it is too expensive. Then it will go to court where any justice who passed the bar will laugh, hard, and rule it unconstitutional. Of course there will be the license plates already made, around for years. I see this as a plan to show state sponsorship of Christianity and later ask for forgiveness. But when the judge orders all plates returned and destroyed, that's when the real christian anger will come. Funny how christians always get angry when they do not have government promoting their religion over others, calling it oppression. I guess Jesus would get angry too, right? I mean, He didn't mean anything when he said to give to Ceasar what is Ceasar's, right?
Posted by: Fate | June 12, 2008 4:10 PM
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I want a Gen. Sherman plate on my car to drive through Georgia and SC. Its motto can be "Burn Baby, Burn!"
Posted by: Garak | June 12, 2008 4:08 PM
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This is the type of thing that comes from voters who really do not care about earthly things, like schools, equality, crime and poverty, because the end times are near! So lets scream to the heavens that we are Christian on our license plates so God won't pass us by when the apacolypse comes, now that it is close at hand (as usual) thanks to Israel, GWB and the holy republican party of America. Remember, the Cnstitution is a piece of paper, nothing compared to God's word, so why give it a second look. Yes, this is the type of thinking that comes from mass delusion.
Posted by: Fate | June 12, 2008 4:01 PM
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Why do the religiously ostentatious press for crosses on license plates when there are so many religious bumper stickers available? For a modest sum they can advertise their piety pretensions with banners large and small, pious and witty. If god had wanted crosses on license plates, he would not have created bumpers.
Perhaps the religious are seeking state support for their particular brand of superstition and mythology.
Posted by: Observer | June 12, 2008 4:00 PM
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ATTENTION MODERATOR:
JJ is destroying this blog with his bigotry-laden spam. Please delete his posts.
Posted by: Arminius | June 12, 2008 3:46 PM
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I wonder, does a license plate legally belong to the owner of the vehicle, or to the state which issued it? Seems to me one has the right to place religious (or other) symbols on one's own property. One should not, however, expect government to place such symbols on state property. I suspect that license plates, though issued to individual drivers, remain the property of the state.
Posted by: Mike Pik | June 12, 2008 3:04 PM
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Indiana has license plates that read "In God We Trust" with a flowing American flag across the bottom. The only fees are normal registration charges (computed on a sliding scale here depending on your car's age).
The plates caused a bit of a stir, but they're pretty popular. That said, it's always interesting to hear the evening news report something like, "the suspects were last seen in a blue Ford with 'In God We Trust' license plate number... etc."
Worth noting, too, that you can get a license plate for almost anything in Indiana: http://www.in.gov/bmv/3817.htm
Posted by: Hoosier Driver | June 12, 2008 3:01 PM
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As an agnostic I have to say, "Who cares?" No one believes that specialized license plates are actually intended to portray government endorsement of a particular group, especially when (as in this case) the government has made plates available for opposing view points. By that logic, the State of South Carolina is also endorsing Rusty Wallace since they also have a license plate for him.
You write, "Though Christians and Humanists have received a vote of confidence from the Legislature, no assurance exists that, in the future, other faith traditions will receive fair treatment. Imagine the debate over a Muslim license plate." And you also have no "assurance" that they won't receive fair treatment. It's not a valid argument, as far as you know, South Carolina will allow those plates as well ... when someone asks for them and the requirements have been met. Really, why wasn't this article written when South Carolina issued the Secular Humanist plates? Why didn't you write (of extremely Christian South Carolina), "Imagine the debate when they allowed that Secular Humanist plate!"
Although I happen to believe that the religious right is extremely pushy with their agenda, I also believe the same of the liberal left when it comes to their opposition - both sides are too fast to leap upon the most meaningless things and scream "foul."
Beyond that, who are any of you to be judging people for wanting to use a license plate as part of showing their faith?
Posted by: Policyman | June 12, 2008 2:58 PM
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As an agnostic I have to say, "Who cares?" No one believes that specialized license plates are actually intended to portray government endorsement of a particular group, especially when (as in this case) the government has made plates available for opposing view points. By that logic, the State of South Carolina is also endorsing Rusty Wallace since they also have a license plate for him.
You write, "Though Christians and Humanists have received a vote of confidence from the Legislature, no assurance exists that, in the future, other faith traditions will receive fair treatment. Imagine the debate over a Muslim license plate." And you also have no "assurance" that they won't receive fair treatment. It's not a valid argument, as far as you know, South Carolina will allow those plates as well ... when someone asks for them and the requirements have been met. Really, why wasn't this article written when South Carolina issued the Secular Humanist plates? Why didn't you write (of extremely Christian South Carolina), "Imagine the debate when they allowed that Secular Humanist plate!"
Although I happen to believe that the religious right is extremely pushy with their agenda, I also believe the same of the liberal left when it comes to their opposition - both sides are too fast to leap upon the most meaningless things and scream "foul."
Posted by: Policyman | June 12, 2008 2:56 PM
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I always found it interesting that the most Christian state in the nation has a flag with a crescent moon and palm tree. The only other places I see crescent moons and palm trees as symbols are in the Middle East.
Posted by: DC | June 12, 2008 2:53 PM
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The First Amendment begins with ... "Congress shall make no law..." Since license plates are a state matter, the First Amendment should not apply. The South Carolina constitution should.
That's a novel thought. Entirely and fully wrong, but I gotta give you credit for being original.
To the broader point - why is there this need to proclaim faith in gaudy, ridiculous ways? Do you really need your car to proclaim your faith? Is it that important for you to show everyone around you that you, in fact, are a Christian?
Posted by: SRM | June 12, 2008 2:51 PM
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I live in South Carolina and disagree with the religous license plates. South Carolina has a troubled education system, one of the highest domestic abuse rates in the country, low wages and a terrible attitude towards the working man. What would Jesus do?
Yet our legislature finds the time to pass a law supporting license plates with religious and secular humanists points of view. What a waste of taxpayers money and time. By the way, I am a Christian but I don't feel a need to advertise or make someone else feel uncomfortable by driving with a license plate proclaiming my beliefs.
SC legislature when are the Muslims, Buddihists, and those of the Jewish faith getting their plates? If we believe in the constitution, all religions should have representation on our roads.
One more thing, all Christians with personal "I Believe" or "In God We Trust" plates, please stop speeding on our highways. Your hypocrisy is showing.
Posted by: MLHthinking | June 12, 2008 2:36 PM
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This is a supreme court case waiting to happen.
The Constitution demands a clear separation of church and State, yet being an evangelical christian is practically a requirement in the armed forces.
South Carolina putting the cross on a license plate not only violates the constitution, but denigrates the symbol of the messiah's execution by the Romans and Pharisees.
"Your flag decal won't get you into heaven anymore..."
Posted by: JBE | June 12, 2008 2:32 PM
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I got a deal - no Confederate battle flag, no cross.
In fact - neither.
Posted by: Revcraig | June 12, 2008 2:26 PM
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The separation of church and state has two benefits. First, it protects the church from undue interference in its activities by the state. Then, reciprocally, it protects the state (and the diversity of beliefs within it) from the church. There is no place for a cross on a license plate.
In our city, a clergyman may have a cross on a tag that he puts in the window when he is making a house call on a sick member of his congregation (as may a rabbi have a Star of David and a Muslim an appropriate symbol) along with the words Clergy On Call. This tells the police that the minister is parked there temporarily on a work of mercy. That does not mean he may have a cross or a Star of David or a crescent on his license tag.
It is also a degradation of the meaning of a religious symbol to post it where it can get muddied or can get dented by another car. It is just so disrespectful of the symbol itself.
Posted by: Karen | June 12, 2008 2:22 PM
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What would the kind folks of the Palmetto State think about a vanity plate that says "Atheist and Proud of It?"
Posted by: Henry Krinkle | June 12, 2008 2:19 PM
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I would like to point out the significance of perception. You had to research to discover that the plate was produced and sold without profit, but most won't research. They will simply come to the conclusion that our "stewards of the public trust" are endorsing a single religious group.
Posted by: Jackie | June 12, 2008 2:13 PM
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All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful, but not all things edify. (1 Cor. 10:23)
Posted by: Jackie | June 12, 2008 2:08 PM
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Amen, Rev. Gaddy.
As a great Theologian once said, "Preach the Gospel at all times...use words if necessary."
People should see Christ in how we live our lives, how we speak, and how we act. A cross around our necks, or a bumper sticker won't have as much impact as a bag of groceries to a struggling neighbor or sympathetic shoulder for a hurting friend.
I also agree with your conclusion regarding motorists who incur moving violations while sporting religous messages on their autos. It would definitely have the opposite effect.
Posted by: BeowulfthePolitician | June 12, 2008 1:47 PM
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I have always assumed that the state owned the
tag, and that the tag represented the fact that
the auto owner had purchased all the rights
that the license represents. It can reclaim the
tag. More entanglement of religion and goverment.
Posted by: OLHarper | June 12, 2008 1:46 PM
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Car Tag Evangelism???
I am not sure if I more concerned about the writer who is a Minister who questions the benefit of placing A "sacred symbol" (the cross)on a license plate or the words "I Believe".
There are many forms of advertisements that promote Jesus. Bumper stickers, Shirts, Car Decals, Jewery, and so forth. Go to D.C. and look at ALL those wonderful Buildings that have the Ten Commandments, the statues, the crosses on the graves of our American Heros. Need I go on?
I believe the writer here is tripping over the minor. There are many Christians who claim Christianity who live like the world. I read where 86% of Americans claim to be Christians, and only 6% attend Church. There is the major need.
The key is not License Plates with crosses or words around a plate, but rather the Love of Christ living out in our lives. Jesus left the cross, I doubt that HE (Jesus) calls it sacred! Death was nailed to the cross! Jesus was raised from the dead so that we could have enternal life.
There is NO First Amendment Violation. Where do you get that? Our Founding Fathers Built America on the Bible and God's words! But, as I said...this is a minor deal..."Majoring on the Minor."
Let's spend time praying and walking like Christ instead of worrying about a silly License Plate.
God Bless,
Pastor Rodgar McCalmon Sr.
Living Grace Fellowship
Fairfield, CA.94534
Posted by: Pastor Rodgar McCalmon | June 12, 2008 1:38 PM
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As a senior citizen and Baptist church member in upstate SC, I am not in favor of the license plate.
It will be interesting to see how many people with these license plates will be breaking the "law of the land" by either speeding, not wearing seat belts, not using turn signals, weaving in and out of traffic in a reckless manner, driving under the influence, etc. I work with "believers" who have no problem with drinking at a party and then driving home,(DUI) or speeding to get to work on time and then spending the first 15 minutes talking and laughing about it, or using profanity if they happened to get a speeding ticket. I can't wait to see which one of my co-workers will be the first to buy one of these license plates.
Posted by: upstate SC resident | June 12, 2008 1:37 PM
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I'm enjoying the comments much more than the article.
..
Posted by: DF in FL | June 12, 2008 1:33 PM
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So let me guess, is the Star Spangled Banner a violation of the 1st amendment?
"Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved home and the war's desolation!
Blest with victory and peace, may the heav'n rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: "In God is our trust."
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!"
People are way to sensitive on this issue; what happened to free-speech for Christians? Aren't they Americans too whether you disagree with them or not? The fact of the matter is that our nation was founded on Christian values no matter how much "some" protest.
I do not care what goes on a license plate as long as it does not violate descency.
Posted by: David | June 12, 2008 1:26 PM
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Um - that would be pentacles, not pinacles.
Posted by: Paul Hume | June 12, 2008 1:09 PM
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You have to understand...a license plate bearing the cross, a "Support the Troops" magnet, and a very prominent US flag on a flatbed Chevy or Ford pick-up all signify a good American. Anything less means you're supporting the enemy.
Posted by: kdinsd | June 12, 2008 1:08 PM
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For the Flying Spaghetti Monster! May you be Touched by His Noodly Appendage!
Posted by: Equal Time! | June 12, 2008 1:06 PM
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The question is why do we need anything on a license plate other than the basic data that has been there for years? The answer is that we don't. But if people want it, whatever. Then make them for everyone. If a Christian plate is made for the Christians, then there needs to be a plate for people of other beliefs. And there needs to be a plate for people of no belief. That can get complicated. The simpler solution is a basic plate. Let people festoon their car with bumper stickers if they wish to proclaim whatever myth they subscribe to.
Posted by: Pops | June 12, 2008 12:59 PM
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"count the Wiccan pinnacles..." pentacles, not 'pinnacles'. /rolleyes
I actually wish that license plates with a cross were required for Evangelicals. Don't want to follow too close in case they get raptured up to Jeebus while at the wheel.
Posted by: Pentacles | June 12, 2008 12:59 PM
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South Carolina's law allowing what appears to be a Christian cross on government-issued license plates is likely to be found to be in violation of the U.S. Constitution.
The license plate imagery permitted under this law implies government-established religion because it is not clear to the observer whether the plates are personalized or whether the image is state-sponsored.
It is irrelevant to the constitutionality of this law whether the license plate owner pays all the costs.
It is the potential implication of government-established religion that creates the problem.
Posted by: Tim | June 12, 2008 12:57 PM
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We are a nation where we are free to practice (or not) our religion as we see fit. I don't have an issue with the license plate, and I will not have an issue as long as Athesists, Satanists, Wiccans, Jews, Muslims, and all the other religious sects can have their god, gods, or no god on their license plates too.
I really do believe that if you have to display your faith on a license plate to let people know that is what you are and what you belive in, then you really are not much of a believer in your faith are you?
Posted by: Sierra | June 12, 2008 12:55 PM
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Tacky, tacky, tacky. There's no other word for it. Its like having hundreds of plastic flowers and garden nomes. Never underestimate the capacity of the Americans to be as loud, rude, and boorish as possible.
Posted by: Chagasman | June 12, 2008 12:54 PM
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I'd like to point out that Charleston, in particular, has a rather rich Jewish history in addition to Christians:
"Sephardic Jews migrated to the city in such numbers that Charleston eventually was home to, by the beginning of the 19th Century and until about 1830, the largest and wealthiest Jewish community in North America The Jewish Coming Street Cemetery, first established in 1762, attests to their long-standing presence in the community." [Wikipedia]
Government should simply stay out of the business of singling out or otherwise endorsing religion either directly or indirectly. What ever happened to the license plate that was simply issued to link the car to an owner??
Posted by: KM | June 12, 2008 12:51 PM
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JJ:
Att: Lepidopteryx, (A Neo-Wiccan/Pagan & Lesbian?)
-----Pagan yes. Wiccan no. Lesbian no. You don't have to be gay to oppose sexual discrimination any more than you have to be black to oppose racial discrimination.
Do To technical Problems on the Jerry Falwell post, that "i" am redirecting an answer & a Question to your Post!
-----Ok - I'll copy my response to the Falwell page. It might be your computer, though. I'm not having any problems with it.-----
Taco Bell hath 'Public' Bathrooms (aka Behind Closed Doors) aye???? Why should Baby's see Adult (Un-Natural) Behavoirs, lude acts etc..????
------Dear boy, cooking one's food is an unnatural behavior, as is wearing clothing, living in air-conditioned houses, and using computers.
So you think that gay men and lesbians should only be allowed to express their affection for each other in toilets? Have you ever taken yur wife's hand while strolling through the mall, or across the table at a restaurant? Ever put your arm around her shoulders and give her a kiss in a movie theater? What if seeing that made someone else uncomfortable? Should you be made to stop?------
i beg a Question:
We Straights make-up 99.60% of the Amercian backed Holy & Precious U.S.'s Constitution, so why is it that a measly 0.40% of whole American population can change that Holiness or gurantee but whom dare to Take away that , inalienable Right' or that Sacred sanctity of Marriage, Exclusively {According to NATURE, which is G-D Manifest, unless ye are Un-Goldy addmiting Lovers} between a Real-MAN & a Real-WOMAN.
-------Black people were a minority in this country when segregation was repealed. Since Jim Crow laws represented the will of the majority, should they have been allowed to stand? The "will of God" was used to try to justify such laws - the Tower of Babel was cited as well as the curse of Canaan. Should we still have Whites Only water fountains, racially segregated schools, and laws forbidding inter-racial marriages?------
Posted by: Lepidopteryx | June 12, 2008 12:49 PM
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Сайт службы бронирования предлагает большой выбор отелей и гостиниц Анапы, Витязево, Джемете. Здесь Вы сможете с помощью удобной системы поиска пободбрать устраивающий Вас вариант гостиницы и забронировать ее в режиме онлайн. Система поиска предусматривает возможность точно рассчитать стоимость размещения в нескольких валютах и задать поиск варианта используя двенадцать параметров.
Posted by: Slollawem | June 12, 2008 12:36 PM
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After the order of secession had passed the South Carolina legislature in December 1860, the old anti-nullification attorney James L Petigru was asked if he would now, at last, support his native state. “I should think not!” he replied. “South Carolina is too small for a republic and too large for a lunatic asylum!”
Here is yet another reason to question the validity of last part of Petigru's reply....
Posted by: HDC | June 12, 2008 12:32 PM
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As the Lord preached, "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's," so should plates issued by the state remain an affair of the state.
Faith is best expressed through bumper stickers, dashboard adornments, cross-shaped air fresheners, and horns that toot refrains from hymns, not license plates.
Posted by: jkoch | June 12, 2008 12:29 PM
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Great article! One correction on: ". . . count the crosses or count the humanists or count the Wiccan pinnacles that appear on various vehicles."
It's not "pinnacles", it's "pentacles".
Posted by: Know Some Wiccans | June 12, 2008 12:26 PM
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Where do I sign up for my Atheist license plate?
Posted by: Jackson | June 12, 2008 12:24 PM
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тиковая мебель
тиковые шезлонги, раскладная мебель, столы, стулья, табуреты, лежаки, зонты,
отдаем даром!!!! все для клиентов!!! все у нас на складе в Москве!!!!
наш тел. +7-495-9641592/93
Posted by: tikovaya-mebel-dv | June 12, 2008 12:23 PM
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I'll be sure to bring along several cans of spray paint on my next trip through SC.
Posted by: pj451 | June 12, 2008 12:21 PM
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South Carolina Christians show themselves to be unfair and bigoted -- hardly Christian principles, I should think. Do non-Christians and the non-religious in that state have to pay taxes? Hardly just after they are forced by the religious majority to put tags on their car proclaiming something they do not themsleves believe. Talk about "Taking the name of the Lord in vain." Time to repeal this thing ASAP.
Posted by: frank burns | June 12, 2008 12:14 PM
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I think this is a good thing, the more banal and meaningless religion becomes the weaker it gets and the easier it will be for us to get over this outdated iron age mythology.
Posted by: hms | June 12, 2008 12:13 PM
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Oh Lord, next thing you know we will see Yamulka & Kufee & Burka vailed Cars with Judeo-Jewish Plates (We are The Chosen & You Are Not, Ha Ha ..!) , or Judeo-Christian Cars (We are saved via the Jews...!) & Judeo-Islamic Cars (Muhammad is the Last Prophet & Allah last God..!) & Judeo-Hindu cars & Judeo-Buddhist cars etc..!
Posted by: Defenders against Stanic Versus, their thinkers, shakers & Doers anywhere on Holy-Earth | June 12, 2008 12:12 PM
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I want one that says to hell with god!
Posted by: johnny | June 12, 2008 12:10 PM
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Att: Lepidopteryx, (A Neo-Wiccan/Pagan & Lesbian?)
Do To technical Problems on the Jerry Falwell post, that "i" am redirecting an answer & a Question to your Post!
Taco Bell hath 'Public' Bathrooms (aka Behind Closed Doors) aye???? Why should Baby's see Adult (Un-Natural) Behavoirs, lude acts etc..????
i beg a Question:
We Straights make-up 99.60% of the Amercian backed Holy & Precious U.S.'s Constitution, so why is it that a measly 0.40% of whole American population can change that Holiness or gurantee but whom dare to Take away that , inalienable Right' or that Sacred sanctity of Marriage, Exclusively {According to NATURE, which is G-D Manifest, unless ye are Un-Goldy addmiting Lovers} between a Real-MAN & a Real-WOMAN.
(Similar written, implied or expressed thereon & therefrom exclusively between a Man & Woman..)??
Posted by: JJ is a man from tuson Arizona,, i'm back | June 12, 2008 12:01 PM
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Wow. Anybody in SC familiar with the Constitution. I mean, it's in the 1st amendment. You don't even need to read very far. Oh well. America has been on this path since Reagan.
Posted by: Anonymous | June 12, 2008 12:01 PM
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Bethesda-
Federal law supercedes state law.
Posted by: wiccan | June 12, 2008 11:59 AM
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How refreshing to hear a rational voice from the American church for a change. I agree with Rev. Gaddy's sentiments. Although with vanity plates for just about everything else, it was just a matter of time before such plates got around to religions, and for state governments to capitalize on such affinities. Already, many drivers have the geometrically-stylized fish sticker as a universal symbol that, "I'm a Christian, too."
What a lot of churchgoers seem to forget is that Christianity is not about "telling"; it's about "showing". These days many such folks love to tell others that they (among other things) go to church, support the military, loathe same-sex marriage, and are unilaterally opposed to abortion under any circumstances. What is rarely heard is what Jesus instructed his believers to do - (a) to love one another (the "brethren"), and (b) to love everybody else.
Many of the most vocal churchgoers I've observed, though, are some of the angriest people in America. They're not interested in hearing other points of view (either religious or political), for some mysterious reason they love guns (and gun rights), and if culture or the courts strike down one of their cherished policies they rally around anyone who will "tickle their ears."
I already find it annoying when I see "Marriage Equals One Man Plus One Woman" bumper stickers. Let's hope state governments don't get more into political/religious messages than "In God We Trust" for the sake of raising tax dollars.
Posted by: Reader in Houston | June 12, 2008 11:58 AM
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....or better still: "Nuke a Gay Whale for Jesus"
takes care of most of the neochristian political agenda.......
Posted by: Roy | June 12, 2008 11:48 AM
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Maybe Arkansas, where Huckabee lives, can have a tag with a holy glowing bookcase like in his Christmas ad.
Posted by: Roy | June 12, 2008 11:46 AM
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In Texas driving is always a hazardous venture. Keeping your eyes open to all situations is a life saving practice. But what you must always be on the look out for is those Christian fish symbols stuck on the car in front of you. For it is usually one of the self righteous that will cut you off, force you off the road or slam on their brakes to cross three lanes of traffic.
Posted by: monel | June 12, 2008 11:45 AM
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The First Amendment begins with ... "Congress shall make no law..." Since license plates are a state matter, the First Amendment should not apply. The South Carolina constitution should.
I agree that the use of religious symbols on license plates trivializes the religious believes of the owner of the vehicle, just as much public prayer trivializes prayer. However, I think that the vast majority of the populace would understand that a vanity plate is a personal, rather than governmental, expression of faith.
This issue should be decided by the state legislature.
Posted by: Bethesda | June 12, 2008 11:40 AM
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Alabama has done something slightly more subtle. Aside from the specialty tags, there are two basic choices in state tags. One is a simple red and blue on white with a caption "Stars Fell On Alabama."
The other has a background image of a rolling American flag with a "God Bless America" caption.
Needless to say, those of us who don't wear our faith and patriotism on our sleeves and bumpers can be divided like sheep and goats from the "God-fearing Christian patriots."
Posted by: A Great Day in Alabama! | June 12, 2008 11:34 AM
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No offense to the good reverend, but there are NO human philosophies, faiths, or political views that can be adequately defined on a license plate or bumper sticker.
That doesn't stop people, both faithful and secular, from trying to cram a message into that little space. At least Christianity has the virtue of an easily-recognized symbol -- the Cross. People who see it grasp immediately the meaning -- the driver is a believer, a subscriber to a particular faith system. Why does this offend? I see license plates promoting the wilderness, the Appalachian Trail, the rights of kids, the rights of animals, and the Rotary Club. Why not the cross? The faith of a driver is just as likely to be communicated by a license plate as the political views of another.
Posted by: Fuji | June 12, 2008 11:30 AM
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Its all God's name in vain. And the bumper sticker 30 years ago read: Nuke the Gay Baby Whales for Christ. That way you cover all the interest groups of the time.
Posted by: ceodude | June 12, 2008 11:27 AM
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Your article reminds me of a giggle I had years ago in a snowstorm when I saw a car that had slid into a ditch, with a bumper sticker that read, "Jesus has everything under control"!
I agree that the license plate sentiments have gotten ridiculous.
Posted by: Catherine | June 12, 2008 11:24 AM
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They should have included snakes, burning crosses, white-robed Klansmen, and the Confederate flag. I used to live on the Georgia/SC border. Anybody who thinks the Civil War is over should spend a couple years in downtown Savannah, North Charleston, or Columbia.
Posted by: Bart Brown | June 12, 2008 11:17 AM
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As a Christian, and a minister of the Gospel, I could not agree with you more. The commercialisation of religion via car tags, the dillution of religion by endlessly playing Amazing Grace at state sponsored funerals, and the potential denial of the same privileges to athiests or Moslems is more than enough reason to "Say No to Car Tag Evangelism".
Posted by: Dave Sheehan | June 12, 2008 11:14 AM
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My first reaction as well as my second, thought out reaction, is the same. NO! What bothers me most is that a vocal, self righteous group of people, have ramroded their belief system onto everyone else. And by god, don't you know they are drunk with their believe of truth, justice & the American way!
It's just that "truth, justice & the American way" declares separation between church & state and FREEDOM of religion.
Now if they want to do specialty plates like "In God We Trust", "In Allah We Trust", "In A Higher Power We Trust", or in Trumps case, "In $$ I Trust", all that's OK. Charge $45 per specialty plate and use the funds to help defray the costs of with road, bridge, infrastructure maintenance.
You think those snake handling, tent revivalist "christian" conservatives will practice "truth, justice & the American way" in deeds? You know, walk the walk?
Me neither...
Posted by: Jaxon | June 12, 2008 11:13 AM
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Another of the many reason why South Carolina is backwards.
Posted by: Kenneth | June 12, 2008 11:05 AM
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Very well written and thought through article.
Personally, I've never cared for vehicles posted with either license plates or bumper stickers attempting to convey much of a meaning. There was a humerous bumper sticker about thirty years ago that expressed this feeling, "NUKE THE WHALES".
Posted by: Old Kayaker | June 12, 2008 11:04 AM
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Huh. Think we could fit something really Jesus-y on our registration stickers, too?
Posted by: mobedda | June 12, 2008 10:53 AM
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License plates already have become posters of doctrine. When I worked as an intern in the Tennessee General Assembly this plate caused a stir in 2003:
http://state.tn.us/revenue/vehicle/licenseplates/misc/miscdesc.htm#chooselife
This has already made it through the courts despite the ACLU's attempts to stop it.
Posted by: Lee | June 12, 2008 10:53 AM
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I just put my plastic Jesus up on the dash where he belongs.
Posted by: willandjansdad | June 12, 2008 10:43 AM
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Just create plates for everyone: Islam, Santeria, Wicca, Hindu, Buddhism, Branch Davidian, Mormon, Satanism -- force them to take on all comers.
Nothing will get their hillbilly undergutchies in a twist faster than a license plate paying homage to Mohammed.
Only problem is, they'll end up burning the car and slaughtering its occupants in the name of Jesus, just like General Peter Pace implied we were doing in Iraq. These people are nuts.
Posted by: what needs to happen | June 12, 2008 10:39 AM
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Reverend Gatty-
You give a strong, well-reasoned opinion in your post. I have a small quibble: the major Wiccan symbol is the Pentacle, not pinnacle.
"Pentacle
A Pentacle is a 5-pointed Star contained within a circle. It is drawn in a continuous line, without breaks or lifting the pen (or whatever) from the writing surface.
The five points of the Pentacle stand for the four directions and four elements, plus Centre/Spirit. It represents the unity of all facets of the world into one expression of the Divine.
It is no coincidence that a human standing with all limbs outstretched forms a rudimentary star shape. This human star inside the circle of the aura creates a living Pentacle.
The Pentacle is the prime energy-containing Wicca symbol. It contains, in essence, the Universe within it."
From http://www.wicca-spirituality.com/wicca-symbol.html#pentacle
It took ten years for the government to approve the pentacle symbol for our Wiccan warriors buried in national cemetaries. Today, just having a bumper sticker with the pentacle on your car is enough to have the car vandalized, usually by those who call themselves "Christian".
I don't understand why South Carolina opened this can of worms.
Posted by: wiccan | June 12, 2008 10:38 AM
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As it is now, in certain southern and rural parts of this country, law enforcement has a habit of pulling over vehicles with OUT-OF-STATE
tags while allowing vehicles driving much faster with home state license plates to proceed unimpeded.
Imagine the woebegone plight of the individual who does not sport such a "cross" license plate in an area where the majority of vehicles do. In which case, why don't we just go ahead right now, e.g., and add DWJ (driving while Jewish) to DWB (driving while black) to the list of potential moving violations.
Posted by: smart guy | June 12, 2008 10:38 AM
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No one has anything to say...tell dear Sally to look under another rock.
Posted by: R.S.Newark | June 12, 2008 10:28 AM
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