God’s Grace is Greater Than Any Sin

TO MR MARK:

You wrote, "I didn't know that there were second-rate prophets. I thought there were real prophets and false prophets.", and this is correct, either true or false.

When I referred to second-rate prophet that is how the koran seems to look at Jesus and Mohammad.

Mohammad being the main prophet and Jesus while highly spoken of being much less, it fits right in with satan distorting the truth and then claiming God-Incarnate as his prophet.

Jesus, while being a Messenger was also the Message.

You also wrote, "So, let's see: when Jesus said that his second coming would occur during the lifetimes of those in his generation, was he a false prophet?

Actually He said some of those and you, one day, will find out that this is true.

Jesus was a Prophet and He was and is and always will be God. Jesus was created in the Image and Likeness of God and He is God. He truly became The Brother of ALL HUMANITY.

Take care, be ready, see you in the Kingdom.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

WHAT IS HOLY ABOUT BELOW VERSES OF BIBLE:

I always wondered why every passing day West is going shamelessly promiscuous, vulgar, obscene, abhorrent to morality or virtue and repulsive by reason of crass disregard of moral or ethical principles. OTHER THEN RUTHLESSLY VIOLENT AND BARBARIC TO OTHER RELIGIONS AND RACES!!

-Why kids are molested in there dark churches and convents by there priests. TURNED INTO MILLIONS OF GAYS OR ETHEIST, I GUESS BETTER CHOICE FOR THEM!
- Why children are molested by there parents (mostly adopted not blood related) in your society?
- Why every second women is raped in your society? Alone in USA more than 2730 women raped every single day.
-Why teenage girl’s pregnancy is out of control in your society?
-Why kids are not properly raised by there parents and why old parents are not been taken care by there kids in your society?
-Why your society is so violent and crime rate is so high in its civic fabric?

First I was shocked, immediately after reading bible realizing that, my eyes get wet, and I prayed and thanked God and asked for his mercy and forgiveness, that he saved me from the curse of twisted lies…….AS ALL THE ACTUAL VIRTUOUS VERSIONS, ALL THAT WE MUSLIMS KNOW ARE MOSTLY NOT AWARE OF THE WAY…VULGORLY THOSE HISTORY STORIES ARE TWISTED IN THE BIBLE.

I read your bible and came to realize what kind of twisted volgur atributes you have attached to your prophets and your God. YOU HAVEN’T LEFT ANYONE, FATHER TO DAUGHER, SON TO MOTHER, GOD TO SARAH, THERE BASTERED OFF SPRINGS.

HAVE YOU LEFT ANYBODY THERE?????

AND THAT IS THE CURSE IN REALITY WHICH IS REFLECTING UPON YOUR WHOLE SOCIETY, BELIEVE IT OR NOT!!!!!!!

VERY FEW EXAMPLES OUT OF THE BIBLE……..

PROPHET LOT AND HIS DAUGHTERS (YOUR BIBLE TELLS SLEEPING TOGATHER AND HAVING CHILDREN)

30 Lot and his two daughters left Zoar and settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. He and his two daughters lived in a cave. 31 One day the older daughter said to the younger, "Our father is old, and there is no man around here to lie with us, as is the custom all over the earth. 32 Lets get our father to drink wine and then lie with him and preserve our family line through our father."
33 That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and lay with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.
34 The next day the older daughter said to the younger, "Last night I lay with my father. Let's get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and lie with him so we can preserve our family line through our father." 35 So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went and lay with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.
36 So both of Lot's daughters became pregnant by their father

PROPHETS SON SLEEPING WITH HER MOTHER YOUR BIBLE TELLS-GENESIS 35

21 Israel moved on again and pitched his tent beyond Migdal Eder. 22 While Israel was living in that region, Reuben went in and slept with his father's concubine Bilhah, and Israel heard of it.
Jacob had twelve sons:

PROPHET ABRAHAM MARRIED HER REAL SISTER ACCORDING TO YOUR BIBLE

11 Abraham replied, "I said to myself, 'There is surely no fear of God in this place, and they will kill me because of my wife.' 12 Besides, she really is my sister, the daughter of my father though not of my mother; and she became my wife.

THE BIRTH OF ISAAC (LORD DID FOR SARAH, WHAT HAD PROMISED) ACCORDING TO YOUR BIBLE IT WAS NOT ABRAHAM
Genesis 21 (New International Version)

1 Now the LORD was gracious to Sarah as he had said, and the LORD did for Sarah what he had promised. 2 Sarah became pregnant and bore a son to Abraham in his old age, at the very time God had promised him.

Now I clearly understand that why our Quran tells that Bible or any other divine book is not in its original form and are all tainted by the evil doers. And that’s why we do not believe or follow them, though we do believe in all divine books including bible revealed in their original form but do not exist. AND WE ALSO BELIEVE IN ALL THE PROPHETS INCLUDING JESUS CHRIST AND OUR QURAN REJECTS ALL KIND OF VOLGARITIES ATTRIBUTED TO THEM OR TO GOD. AND EXPLAINS AND TELL STORIES ABOUT HOW VIRTUOUS THEY WERE IN REALITY!!!!!

You can close your eyes or do not accept for what ever reasons you have….twist or lie
BUT YOU CAN'T DENY THE TRUTH:
THAT EVERY RATIONAL INTELLIGENT LOGICAL KNOWLEDGE & SICENCE IS TESTIFYING FOR QURAN....AFTER EVERY NEXT DISCOVERY AND AWARENESS!

MODREN SCIENCE AND QURAN (ISLAMIC DIVINE BOOK)

Quran is not a book of science BUT a book of signs. It has more than 6000 verses out of which more than 1000 verses giving CLEAR signs about the modern scientific proven facts in recent couple of hundred years. (WHICH BY ANY POSSIBLE MEANS CANNOT BE SAID BY US HUMANS 1400 YEARS BACK. THE ONLY LOGIC IS THAT ITS FROM SOMEONE WHO IS COMMUNICATING TO A HUMAN AND KNOWS BETTER THAN HUMANS)

- For some people ONE sign is enough to believe.
- For some people 10 signs are enough.
- But some people don't come to believe even after more than 1000 miraculous signs.

Verses about:

1- Big bang theory (in a nut shell).
2- Geo spherical Ostrich egg shaped earth (spherical which is the exact shape)
3- Cosmic dust (referred more perfectly as smoke).
4- How water seep into the earth and rain cycle through AIR.
5- Sweet and salt water of oceans and barrier between them.
6-Expanding sun, solar system and universe for given period of time
7- Earth, sun and stars revolving on their axis and path (orbits).
8- Sun and moon have different paths (orbits).
9- Sun and stars consuming there energy.
10- Reflected sun light of moon. In Arabic mooneer (moon) it self means reflected light.
11- Upper thin layer of earth, which is hold by mountains as nails (bigger in size deep in earth) from shacking.
12- Perfect shape and stages of human embryo.
13- All living being made out of water.
14- All plants and even fruits have male and female atributes.
15- The exact way of plants and animals behaviour and how they communicate.

AND MANY MORE............

THESE ARE ALL RECENT DISCOVERIES AND SIGN FOR THOSE SINCERELY SEEKING TRUTH!!!!!! AND REMEMBER THAT IS NOT WHAT QURAN IS ALL ABOUT... THESE ARE JUST TESTIFYING SIGNS WITHOUT ANY FLAW OR FAULT.

Thomas Baum,

I don't mind your language because by now I came to conclusion that it is common norm in west, false accusations and slinging dirt on others IGNORING CONCRETE PROOFS.
And now in reply to your post:

MUSLIMS OBEY JESUS (A.S.) AND HIS GOD OF ALL CREATIONS MORE THEN CHRISTIANS:

BRINGING PROOF FROM YOUR OWN BIBLE BECAUSE YOU BELIEVE IN IT SO YOU NEED IT TO VARIFY, AS MUSLIMS PROOF AND WHAT WE BELIEVE IS QURAN.

Lies or Truth: Evidence speaks for it self !

1- There is not a single verse in ANY VERSION of Bible where Jesus (A.S) said, worship me OR I'm god. Instead he said,” I speak what I hear from father”, “My Father is greater than me."

2- Again word "Trinity" is not mentioned in ANY VERSION of the Bible. The closest verse to trinity that,” Father, Holy Ghost & spirit is one" is thrown out in your REVISED VERSION of Bible. As all your high priests said,” It was a concoction, fabrication, addition, a lie in the Bible, as no such verse is found in the most ancient scriptures".
So please ask your own priests who is lying and fabricating??????

3-We Muslims FOLLOW more in Jesus (A.S) commandments then you Christians:

(You say, you love Jesus (A.S.), but you disobey his every commandment).

4-From Adam to Jesus (PBUT) MENTIONED IN YOUR BIBLE, all prophets when prayed to God, they prostrated like we Muslims.
Do you follow Jesus, how to pray?

5- In ALL Bibles more than 3 times Jesus said swine-pig is forbidden to eat. We Muslims follow him, but you Christians follow PAUL and disobey Jesus (A.S.) commandments.

6- More than 4 occasions in ALL Bibles Jesus (A.S) told wine has bad attributes on the humans. But Paul quotes the "FIRST MIRACLE OF JESUS" and since then wine is flowing like water in Christendom and NOT AT ALL in Muslimdom. (Bible said water tasted like wine and never said turned into wine).

7- Jesus said," I came to keep all the commandments of the God and not to break them". But you Christians broke EACH AND EVERY of them.
Hale-aluu-Yaa to Church, Paul, Mathew, John and Luke!!!!!

8-According to Christian Bible first miracle of Jesus (A.S.) was turning water taste like wine and recovering the shortage in the gathering. But according to Quran the first miracle of Jesus was talking to Jews when he was infant in his mother’s arms.

When after birth, Mary came:
According to the BIBLE she told the Jews that she hear voices and then had a child birth. Do you believe your daughter or sister, if she come and tell you she had birth after hearing voices? Do you think when “IF” Mary had told that to the Jews, they would have believed her???
But Quran tells that the Jews accused her, she knows that Jesus (A.S) was the miraculous birth. So she told the Jews ask the infant. And miraculously Jesus (A.S) talked to them and told them that I’m the messenger from God, therefore be nice and respectful to my mother as she is among the highest of the pious. Quran gives highest respect to Mary, even there is a complete chapter by her name in Quran. You have chapters named by Mathew, Luke, John or lying Paul and many others but not a single by his mothers name Mary.
Which version would you like to tell to your children, HEARING VOICES AND GETTING PRAGNANT or MIRACULOUS TALK????

9-Christians says Jesus (A.S) was the BEGOTTEN SON. What are you trying to apply here? So what you are trying to put in all the humans throat is that the All Mighty God Who made every thing miraculously from Adam to every thing of this world needs to come done to seed…. (God forgive us for such satanic thinking). Allah tells in Quran that when He wants to do some thing, He just says and it happens. He begets not nor He begotten. Human miracles are not the proof of any kind of divinity. Jesus (A.S) was the prophet like all other prophets with miracles.

10-Christians says Jesus (A.S) get crucified for there sins. And a son of god (not mentioned any where in the Bible he himself never said that). And dozens of Bible verses proving that he was not died through crucifixion. You Christians are also divided about it.
So basically what you are making to swallow us (the whole human race) is that the whole nation rape, kill and do bad atrocities and when brought for justice there King hang his own son instead of punishing them. IT DOES REALLY MAKE SENSE! Hale- alu- Yaa PAUL and the greatest deceiving of the human history.

11- Jesus says “ He is jealous God only pray to Him”. But Christians are eager to make partner to Him. We Muslims only pray to God and don’t make any partners to Him.

So I am asking you a question:

Next time does Jesus (A.S) come to the house of people who are obeying his commandments OR who are TOTALLY disobeying his commandments???

T Baum writes:

"Jesus is God-Incarnate, not a second-rate prophet."

I didn't know that there were second-rate prophets. I thought there were real prophets and false prophets.

The Bible has a test for false prophets:

""You may say to yourselves, 'How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the Lord?' If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him" (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NIV).

The penalty for false prophecy, according to the biblical context, is capital punishment (per Deuteronomy 13:1-5).

So, let's see: when Jesus said that his second coming would occur during the lifetimes of those in his generation, was he a false prophet?

TO SOMALITRADE:

You wrote, "You do know that I only quote what "Jesus said", not third party bible additions!? If you agree, then why do you believe that Jesus was sent to the entire humanity? He is not, according to him!".

If you actually read what I wrote in the last post, I said that Jesus sent us to the ends of the earth. He also said, "I will be with you till the end of the age", so it is not just me but Jesus and I going and there have been many before me.

In your reply, you wrote, "Then you wrote:"actually I look past heaven to the KINGDOM, the new heavens and the new earth."Based on what? Shouldn't you at least "think" a bit?".

It is based on what is written in the bible and yes, I do think but I also have the Holy Spirit to guide me, which is also in the bible and what Jesus told us.

Jesus is God-Incarnate, not a second-rate prophet. God is a Trinity and God is Pure Love and God becoming one of us is part of God's Plan, the Mysterious Plan of God as it is referred to in the bible, which is unfolding before our very eyes.

Take care, be ready, see you in the Kingdom.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Thomas Baum wrote:

"You also wrote, "READ the bible!!!", that is good advice, so many people pull out one verse here and one verse there rather than the whole bible."

You do know that I only quote what "Jesus said", not third party bible additions!? If you agree, then why do you believe that Jesus was sent to the entire humanity? He is not, according to him!

Then you wrote:

"Another thing that you wrote, " Without this theology, you will be flipping burger at a fast food restaurant!", what is wrong with honest work?"

I, at some point in my life, flipped burgers as well. Nothing wrong with honest work! I am just telling you that the christian theology is made by the church and is based on a cook book not on what Jesus "actually did and say". Therefore, priests and revs better find some different jobs if they really want to be honest to themselves.

Then you wrote:

"actually I look past heaven to the KINGDOM, the new heavens and the new earth."

Based on what? Shouldn't you at least "think" a bit? I assume that you closed your eyes, raised your hands, and then started shaking when you said these words. For God's sake, READ your own book and understand it before you say these things! Can I be more fair than asking you to read the bibile and understand what Jesus "himself" said and did? The church teachings have NOTHING to do with Jesus at all. It is power and money that they are after, and what a better way to do that than brainwashing people into a belief systems that maintains ownership and the interpretation of the bible in the church while leaving the people repeating mantras and specific phrases that keep them away from the truth!

TO PAGANPLACE

You wrote, "It hardly makes sense to say that we're all 'damned' for 'knowing good and evil,' and then to demand everyone in the world 'know' just that, in the form of your Satan vs God thing."

First off, maybe you should actually read what I write.

I have never wrote that we are all damned, on the contrary I have said just the opposite but I have said that we will all be judged and that we are responsible for what we do.

Jesus died for us so that we can die for others whether it is physicall getting wacked or otherwise.

Don't confuse people that know Jesus's Name with people that actually try to follow Him.

Also it is not my satan vs. God thing, I am just a messenger, neither satan nor God but a fellow human being.

Watered-down Christianity in all of its forms is worse than no christianity at all.

I have met God, this is either true or not. I have met the Whole Trinity, this is either true or not. I have met satan, this is either true or not. God is Love, Pure Love, a Being of Love, this is either true or not.

It is sad, really sad that some people think God is so full of hatred and they admire that, they are in for a big surprise.

I thank God that He let me know that He is real and that He has a Plan, I don't know all of the details, virtually none, but that isn't important what is important is that God knows what He is doing and one day All will be fine.

Sound to good to be true, well I guess those words that Jesus said, "With man it is impossible but with God all things are possible" and after meeting God, I take that as all good things.

Take care, be ready, see you and the rest of humanity in the Kingdom.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

TO SOMALITRADE:

You wrote, "Jesus was ONLY sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel", and then He sent us to the entire world.

You also wrote, "READ the bible!!!", that is good advice, so many people pull out one verse here and one verse there rather than the whole bible.

Another thing that you wrote, " Without this theology, you will be flipping burger at a fast food restaurant!", what is wrong with honest work?

And then you wrote, "According to the bible itself, your abode is definitely not heaven. I hope I don't see you where you end up!", actually I look past heaven to the KINGDOM, the new heavens and the new earth.

The name that I sign at the end of my postings is my real and full name.

Take care, be ready, See you in the Kingdom.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

I mean, really... If I'm supposed to believe that *your* interpretation of *your* chosen translation of *your* book is the "Literal (or even 'inspired' Word Of God," which should apparently excuse all manner of nasty treatment done to fine people like myself, as well as trying to claim a command of science, ...without so much as an 'ibid,' ...At least learn to spell. It just insults the intelligence of all concerned beyond forbearance.

Really.

"Waver." "Throne."

It's really annoying when people who interpret their book to 'literally say' I personally 'shall not be suffered to live' despite not actually appearing in said book, ...can't even *spell.*

Pet peeve. Bon appetit. :)

A woman is going to waiver and a man is going to sing, and it will bellow unto the thrown of a new calling, for this is a higher calling and a greater calling a calling that is far greater that this woman ever dreamed possible. I know your plans and it will happen, says the Lord.

Josh- http://jcudell.blogspot.com/

Hi, Thomas, didn't catch your reply, before.

"This 'Original Sin' I'm supposed to have been born guilty of supposedly involves "knowing good and evil," (however that got translated into 'Sex' in the first place)",

And you said,

"actually "Original Sin" is where we got free will from, we have choices in life to make all the time, trying to be a decent human being to our fellow human beings is the right thing to do."

It hardly makes sense to say that we're all 'damned' for 'knowing good and evil,' and then to demand everyone in the world 'know' just that, in the form of your Satan vs God thing.

In fact, the 'religions of Abraham' have quite a *history* of stomping on into various Edens, calling people 'Evil' and then informing them how desperate it is they 'know good and evil,' so they can be 'saved' from something that didn't exist to them in the first place. Rarely goes well for those 'so informed,' but certainly does seem to have a way of turning a profit and exerting control, doesn't it? If anyone survives, that is.

As there is no god, "god's grace" amounts to a self-loathing way of saying "human grace" without giving humanity the moral, emotional and empathetic credit we deserve.

Ultimately, adultery and other "sins" are forgiven by the person committing the sin and those sinned against. Society may never forgive one the sin of murder, though the murderer may forgive himself...or vice versa.

"God's grace" boils down to what each human being defines as being grace for themselves and for society at large. As a common thread seems to run through all religions as to what constitutes god's "grace," it would be a major step forward if humanity could cut out the imaginary middle man (middle god?) and embrace the hard-won attribute of "grace" as a human-derived - not a god-given - quality of our lives. In short, as a positive and integral aspect of our evolution, rather than as a divinely inspired construct that we could never have found on our own.

Thomas Baum:

Your words are no different than the author's, may be you are the same person! Where do you get this stuff that you just wrote!? I didn't read in the bible, old or new, any substance that support what you wrote? Wake up!

Then you wrote: "Jesus was more than a teacher tho, He is the Saviour of the entire Human Race. Jesus becoming God-Incarnate is just Part of God's Plan which is still unfolding before our very eyes."

Jesus was ONLY sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, NOT for the entire humanity. READ the bible!!! Jesus being god-incarnate is NOT God's plan! It is the plan of the church and all the priests/revs who wanted to capture as much money and power as they can. Without this theology, you will be flipping burger at a fast food restaurant!

According to the bible itself, your abode is definitely not heaven. I hope I don't see you where you end up!

The land of a little promise.

There’s a land
where beautiful
lapels transform in
emotion the care
of a blackbird, and
over that lamp-post
the rise of a kingdom
describes an intention
in the light of a
fountain; there’s even
the sunshine, a
soul and the prayer.

C. Welton Gaddy,

If God grace is greater than Sin, then why you teach in your Christianiy that

"Jesus is BEGOTTEN son". What do you christians mean by that??

Why you drag your god down to the fealthy act of aninal?

And what does your countless VERSIONS of Bible trying to teach through verses like below and there THERE IMPACT ON YOUR PRESENT WESTERN SOCIETY?

I read your bible and came to realize what kind of twisted volgur atributes you have attached to your prophets and your God. YOU HAVEN’T LEFT ANYONE, FATHER TO DAUGHER, SON TO MOTHER, GOD TO SARAH, THERE BASTERED OFF SPRINGS.

HAVE YOU LEFT ANYBODY THERE?????

AND THAT IS THE CURSE IN REALITY WHICH IS REFLECTING UPON YOUR WHOLE SOCIETY, BELIEVE IT OR NOT!!!!!!!

VERY FEW EXAMPLES OUT OF THE BIBLE……..

PROPHET LOT AND HIS DAUGHTERS (YOUR BIBLE TELLS SLEEPING TOGATHER AND HAVING CHILDREN)

30 Lot and his two daughters left Zoar and settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. He and his two daughters lived in a cave. 31 One day the older daughter said to the younger, "Our father is old, and there is no man around here to lie with us, as is the custom all over the earth. 32 Lets get our father to drink wine and then lie with him and preserve our family line through our father."
33 That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and lay with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.
34 The next day the older daughter said to the younger, "Last night I lay with my father. Let's get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and lie with him so we can preserve our family line through our father." 35 So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went and lay with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.
36 So both of Lot's daughters became pregnant by their father

PROPHETS SON SLEEPING WITH HER MOTHER YOUR BIBLE TELLS-GENESIS 35

21 Israel moved on again and pitched his tent beyond Migdal Eder. 22 While Israel was living in that region, Reuben went in and slept with his father's concubine Bilhah, and Israel heard of it.
Jacob had twelve sons:

PROPHET ABRAHAM MARRIED HER REAL SISTER ACCORDING TO YOUR BIBLE

11 Abraham replied, "I said to myself, 'There is surely no fear of God in this place, and they will kill me because of my wife.' 12 Besides, she really is my sister, the daughter of my father though not of my mother; and she became my wife.

THE BIRTH OF ISAAC (LORD DID FOR SARAH, WHAT HAD PROMISED) ACCORDING TO YOUR BIBLE IT WAS NOT ABRAHAM
Genesis 21 (New International Version)

1 Now the LORD was gracious to Sarah as he had said, and the LORD did for Sarah what he had promised. 2 Sarah became pregnant and bore a son to Abraham in his old age, at the very time God had promised him.

TO SOMALITRADE AND THE REST OF HUMANITY:

The Old Testament is about God choosing and forming a people, the Jews, the Chosen People so that God could become one of us.

Jesus, God-Incarnate, was protected, nurtured, and taught by His earthly Mom and as I put it, His foster Dad. They did this out of loving obedience, not being afraid obedience.

Mary was chosen out of All Mankind to be Jesus's Mom so she is the Mother of God-Incarnate.

Joseph was chosen out of All Mankind to be Jesus's foster Dad, Joseph protected Jesus, helped raise Him and taught Him a trade.

Jesus emptied Himself to become a human being, as I put it He gave up His Omni's but kept the Pure Essence of God which is Love.

Jesus was just as human as you and I yet He was also God-Incarnate, mind-boggling but true.

We are all made in the Image and Likeness of God whether it shines thru or not is beside the point.

So whether you or anyone else believes it, Jesus was made in the Image and Likeness of God and He was God and is God and always will be God.

God's Plan is for All of God's People and All People are God's People. God is a searcher of hearts and minds, not of religious affiliations or lack thereof, it is important what you do and why you do it and what you know.

As it says, God is a respecter of no man which means knowing God's Name in and of itself doesn't impress God.

How do you treat your brothers and sisters, which is all of humanity. Do you try to cram God down other people's throats or try to be decent. Do you try to force your beliefs on others or try to live them.

Knowing about the Truth doesn't mean you know the Truth and it also doesn't mean that you try to live what Jesus taught not what some people seem to think He taught.

Jesus was more than a teacher tho, He is the Saviour of the entire Human Race. Jesus becoming God-Incarnate is just Part of God's Plan which is still unfolding before our very eyes.

Take care, be ready, see you in the Kingdom.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

I am sorry sir but based on the bible, especially the old testament, no one is punished for having sex outside the marriage bond. Even incest was rampant without any condemnation whatsoever. How dare anyone refer to the bible as a book of guidance? What grace do you extract from all the horror stories of sexual revelations in the bible? I get furious when people like you talk of things that do not exist in the books they refer to.

"If you consider adultery scandalous, wait till you really understand grace!"

Are you for real???

Any idea how I can come by some of God's grace? Can it be done at home and alone or do we need the "body of the faithful" and great religious leaders, grace conduits of a sorts, people directly in touch with the source of God's grace along with us?

God forgives murder too? Maybe if we brought God into the court room then more murderers could get forgiveness instead of the chair? Lethal injection isn't the product of God's grace is it?

Homosexuality is as likely to be forgiven as murder hereabouts. No one has come forward and said "you're forgiven" for either one yet. Maybe we need more grace in the right places. Don't tell me grace is like oil and in short supply. Ministers aren't just faking it saying there's no grace to forgive gays and murderers?

Beware of third party forgivers. The offended will not be so forgiving as supernatural beings are alleged to be . And if no one is offended then what's to forgive?

Thomas:

**Just because God knows what we are going to do, does not mean that we don't have free will, what it does mean is that God is God.**

That makes absolutely no sense.

**I don't know if I answered your inquiry but I hope I have given you something to think about.**

No, you didn't answer the question. Didn't even come close to an actual answer. But don't feel bad - none of the preachers I ever spoke to back when I was Christian were able to answer my questions either.

TO LEPIDOPTERYX:

When we try to put God in a box like so many people seem to want to do, it just doesn't work. God is God, we're not.

You see whether anyone believes me or not, I have met the Trinity, separately, so to speak.

When God the Father came into my heart, He did not say a word, He didn't have to, I just knew and I also knew that the whole bible was true.

By the way, just because I know the whole bible is true does not mean that I know what everything in the bible means.

Another thing, just because I know what I have been chosen to do, does not mean that I know how to do it.

One thing that I can say and have said and will continue to say is that God is nothing like what some of the people that know His Name think that He is, and I thank God for that.

It says in the bible that God said, "My Ways are not your ways, and My Thoughts are not your thoughts", this is another thing that I am truly thankful for.

God is Love, Pure Love, but you would never guess that, from what some people seem to think by what they write.

On Page One it says, "Let us make man in Our Image and Likeness", man meaning mankind. It does not say, repentant man, nor someone that might be transformed into Our Likeness but it says man which is all-inclusive.

Some people have seemed to ripped this page out, God hasn't. Just because God knows what we are going to do, does not mean that we don't have free will, what it does mean is that God is God.

All the boxes that we construct to put God in and you see a lot of them in these postings are man's vain attempt to tell God what to do and who to let into His Kingdom and who to exclude, it is really sad to see and read what some people that know His Name think of Him.

God's Plan is God's Plan and it is for ALL OF HUMANITY to be in the Kingdom. I look past heaven to the Kingdom. I don't know if I answered your inquiry but I hope I have given you something to think about.

Take care, be ready, see you in the Kingdom.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Thomas Baum:
**God knew that we would disobey, disobedience is original sin, and with that disobedience we have free will.**

If God is omniscient and infallible, then if he KNOWS something is going to happen, that thing MUST happen, otherwise God would be mistaken. So if God KNEW before he ever created them, that Adam and Eve would eat the forbidden fruit, then they really didn't have the option of not eating it, did they? If they had chosen to not eat it, then God would have been mistaken, and therefore, neither omniscient nor infalible. So if Adam and Eve HAD to eat the fruit because God KNEW they would and God can't be mistaken, where does free will come into it?

Hmmm, no mention of the perverted Kennedy family in any of the comments so far.

Hmmm, murder, womanslaughter, adultery and more adultery!!!

Big money trumps honesty, fidelity and truth on too many occasions!!!!

TO PAGANPLACE:

You wrote, "It's a religion. You're allowed. No more and no less than any of us.", I don't know what you mean by this, could you explain?

You also wrote, "But, it also sheds light on this you say all the time:"Remember, God wins, satan loses, a tie is unacceptable.", this is ultimately, because it will seem like evil will triumph but it won't. Also, that is not the only thing that I write.

Another thing that you wrote, "'Original Sin' I'm supposed to have been born guilty of supposedly involves "knowing good and evil," (however that got translated into 'Sex' in the first place)", actually "Original Sin" is where we got free will from, we have choices in life to make all the time, trying to be a decent human being to our fellow human beings is the right thing to do.

Original Sin has absolutely nothing to do with sex but you sure are correct in saying that a lot of people have twisted it into that.

God knew that we would disobey, disobedience is original sin, and with that disobedience we have free will.

I also have said many times that God has a Plan and He does. God's Plan is for ALL OF HIS CHILDREN, Humanity, contrary to what so many people even want.

I didn't chose me, God did, but I have said YES.

By the way, he is not my satan but he is real and I don't like him, he is not nice at all, I have met him, guess you could say it came with the job.

Take care, see you in the Kingdom.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

I especially have to wonder, Thomas, ...how if the 'Original Sin' I'm supposed to have been born guilty of supposedly involves "knowing good and evil," (however that got translated into 'Sex' in the first place) ....yet, apparently I'm 'evil' if I don't accept your like, 'eternal good and evil battle, mostly expressed by believing a (sexual) tempter-being rules my and everyone's life, unless I act like he does.

Don't know from your Satan, don't much care to.

You know, Thomas, when you say *this:*

"1st off, Christianity is not a religion but is either the TRUTH that God became a human being or it is absolute rubish."

I want to say this:

It's a religion. You're allowed. No more and no less than any of us.

But it's a religion.

But, it also sheds light on this you say all the time:

"Remember, God wins, satan loses, a tie is unacceptable."

If you were to get along with your neighbor without dominating them, would that be 'Satan winning,' or just an 'unacceptable tie,' o, ye who thinks he's mighty? :)

You seem to be like, trying to talk some 'Kinder, gentler absolute unconditional authority: My God or you're with my Satan and no neutrality is acceptable.'

Some of us neither know nor care to know either, save as excuses people use to perpetrate injustice and horror, and are 'just' trying to live, you know.

TO C WELTON GADDY:

You wrote, " As an active participant in interfaith work and inter-religious cooperation, however, I would not presume to suggest how leaders in other faith traditions should speak to this issue."

Sometimes, we get so caught up in the PC of the times that the people that should be speaking the TRUTH are avoiding it at all costs or so it seems.

1st off, Christianity is not a religion but is either the TRUTH that God became a human being or it is absolute rubish.

2nd, JESUS, GOD-INCARNATE, either died for the sins of the entire human race or it is rubish.

3rd, we are to PROCLAIM THE GOOD NEWS that God became One of us and died for ALL OF US or it is rubish.

4th, it doesn't matter if anyone believes us or not, that is their choice, ours is suppose to be carrying on the work left to us by JESUS.

5th, watered-down Christianity is not Christianity or even close, that is the rubish.

Remember, God wins, satan loses, a tie is unacceptable.

Take care, be ready, night is coming, see you ALL in the Kingdom at the dawning of the 7th day.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.