"Judge Not" Means Keeping an Open Mind

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It's a great achievement for Islamic leaders and scholars as well as Newsweek and the Washington post to present this imperative opportunity for inter cultural and global philosophical dialogue. What's important is that by exchanging our ideas and comments regarding inter religious relations and world events that affect our views of each other as fellow human beings. Since the advent of humanity, We strove to make sense of the world we live in and the lives we've experienced. Worldwide curiosities to learn the true nature of life and our universe is an exceptionally rare virtue upon life on Earth. In other words, we're the only known species on the planet who've pursued to unravel these great mysteries and developed written philosophies based upon our understanding of the world around us.
One such philosophy that lasted throughout the ages of humanity is commonly known as religion and spirituality. Ever since our early belief in the Sky God and the God Mother from ancient Pagan times, we vigorously pursued to unravel the truth about our most profound questions. As any educated person would know that religion and their core beliefs or faith have evolved over time. Paganism, Monotheism and Polytheism have been influenced by humanity as these great philosophies have influenced our perceptions and decisions in life over the ages. Over time humanity has embraced diverse religious faiths and spiritual convictions that continue to influence our behavior in our times and most likely beyond.
What's vital for humanity's progress and even survival is to know the true nature of faith itself. To understand the true origins of faith. But most of all, is to accept the truth for whatever it may be. Each one of us will learn the absolute truth once we die. But until that time comes for anyone of us to depart this world, we really don't know the answer to God's existence nor do we have the absolute truth in regards to the true nature of God. Besides if we did possess the truth, there would've been only one religion on Earth with no diversification of any way, shape of form. There would only be one holy scripture written throughout human history.
Considering one's religious faith to be absolute, while considering others to be false would be ethnocentric at best. While collectively searching to unravel the mysteries on nature, life and the universe through sincere reasoning and serious research would be enlightening at its worst. Most importantly, we must accept the fact is that none of us have conclusive evidence to confirm our core beliefs and there's always an immanent change that our most cherished beliefs could be wrong. Our greatest challenge would be to tolerate the truth no matter what it may ultimately be. With such an open mind, we would be able to overcome any future discovery that would contradict our faith regarding the true nature of life, spirituality and divinity.
Humanity does have the ability to achieve such a social achievement. However, it's solely up to humanity and not any other entity or groups of entities to decide our destinies. Each one of us has a choice to make; either hopelessly engaging into meaningless inter cultural conflicts or combine our scientific and cultural gifts to thrive into an enlightened global civilization that could ultimately expand beyond our solar system. The choice is yours, and the time to make it is now!

If your statement PHAEDRUS was facetious, then that's fine, but mine I'll assure you was very firm.
Non the least, thank you for your reply!

Ronald:

My statement was facetious, on purpose, to expose the contortions anon would have to go through to save his argument from invalidity.

PHAEDRUS, even rationally stating that God himself is immoral and unjust and simply likes to torment some segments of his creation is about the most dumbfounded excuse to uphold the homosexual lifestyle I have ever heard.
I have to admit, some of these excuses are quite ingenius, but you will not convince God that his creation was not firm in his intentions. It is man who has deteriorated to the level he has sunk too. Take a good look throughout the world and one doesn't have to look far to understand mankind is in his final downfall as detailed in scriptures.
In fact there are sciptures that describe people and their attitudes today in great detail in 2 Tomothy 3: 1-5.
Wether you heed them makes all the difference in becoming wise or staying in deliberate ignorance.

Anon:

Your argument is invalid. You cannot agree with my premise that laws and teachings that discriminate against gays are immoral, then exclude examples of precisely these teachings from the "immoral" category simply because they are in the Bible.

Now, you could rationally state that God himself is immoral and unjust, and simply likes to torment some segment of his creation, which, with his omnipotence he certainly can do, and be logically consistent. Of course, then you get into the whole "problem of evil" thing, and you probably do not want to go there.

PHAEDRUS, homosexual acts between two consenting adults victimizes no one. You are correct!
To discriminate against a person for non- volitional aspects of their identity, that does not do harm to others is unjust and immoral. Correct you are again.
Any sets of laws or teachings that support this form of discrimination are themselves, unjust and immoral. Yes, how right you are.
By this standard, the Biblical prohibitions on homosexuals are unjust and immoral. This is where you go wrong. The Bible does not live up to man's standards, it is the other way around. Homosexuality victimizes God's creation and traditional marriage between a man and a woman. Since man is the creation of God and it states very clearly in scriptures that Jehovah God does not approve of homosexuality, it is man's error, not God.
Jesus Christ has been given authority by his heavenly Father to judge all mankind, history just does what it has always done in the past, ...it records it.
It is justifiable for the creator to eliminate ones of the human family who do not coincide with his strict moral standards and his will.
You had a firm argument right up until you challenged God's authority and his Biblical integrity.

BRAMBLETON:

"There's some things we just don't know."

Then there's some things we determine using statistics, cigarettes cause cancer forinstance. And. Since self hate is the sincerest hate, how much of that is due to closet gaity? There seems to be a lot of hate, a violation of the 5th commandment among those who hate sin(ners) most, the ministry, God's vicars - attorneys.

What prompted the creation of the first monastary?

Phaedrus,

You stated earlier that "The best evidence available clearly states indicates that sexual identity develops naturally and is not subject to any volitional control." Could you PLEASE point me in the direction of these findings? I'm looking for conclusive, scientific findings that homosexuality is genetic. I have not been able to locate such documents, but since you apparently know where they are, perhaps you could help?

Phaedrus: Pray tell who has a monopoly on "reason" you?

Franco et al are constant reminders that fundies of all stripes are beyond the reach of reason. Twer ever thus.

Those who do n ot accept The Bible are those who not want to give up their sins. You come to God with your heart not your intellect. Folks want to live in their comfortable world without guilt. The Bible points out that we are all sinners and come short of the glory of God and need a savior.

Veritas vos Liberabit: These delusions you have given voice to make me sad. It is clear to me that internally you hate yourself because you have had homosexual thoughts and you fear some god for the same reason...If only you would accept yourself, then your fears would be assuaged and pleasure would wash over you like the warm water: the pleasure of self-acceptance, which is relaxation. Give up the memorized words which hurt you so, please! It is as if you are my son; I feel your grief, your terror, and I wish that you were free of it! Join me in my enlightenment, and you shall find relief!

JOE, try http://www.hoax-buster.org then click on "go to page 2" That's the outline of the real history from which the Bible originates. The firstborn son of the Egyptian was killed so Moses could lead 12 tribes of Israelites to the wilderness... That's what's known as the coup de gras. Granny killed her grandson so her grandaughter could become Pharaoh. Here grandaughter is the basis of both Moses and Jesus - the Bible is a hoaxified version of that story.

GET IT RIGHT: http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul and hurry before the price of a ticket to hell goes completely out of sight. $20 a month was the last price I heard from the "700 Club" but I've heard they're getting desperate.

You said, "Jesus only condemned the reilgious leaders of his day."

If one wishes to be Christ-like then one should condemn the religious leadership. No? I think I get your meaning. If Christ was alive today he would be shunned, ignored and ridiculed because everyone knows Christ has already come -- and condemned the religious establishment. You realize you're making the hoax buster look like "the" Christ.

1.The best evidence available clearly states indicates that sexual identity develops naturally and is not subject to any volitional control.

2. Homosexual acts between two consenting adults victimize no one.

3. To discriminate against a person for non-volitional aspects of their identity, that do not harm others is unjust and immoral.

4. Any set of laws or teachings that support this form of discrimination are themselves, unjust and immoral.

5. By this standard, the Biblical prohibitions on homosexuality are unjust and immoral.

It is not jesus who will judge, it is history. Those of you who live by this aspect of the Bible are on the wrong side of that history, as surely as the witch-burners that preceded you.

"I interpret every text of the Bible in light of the most prominent values and truths apparent in the whole sweep of biblical revelation. Thus, I seek to separate enduring moral values from temporary cultural mores and allow no particular passage of scripture to take precedence over the general message of the Bible." C. Welton Gaddy

Everything one needs to know about Mr. Gaddy is in this verse:
Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me."

It would be wise on your part GET IT RIGHT, if you yourself would GET IT RIGHT!
Jesus Christ is the firstborn Son of God, he is the word of God, he is not God. Everyone who calls on the name of the heavenly Father Jehovah God, must come through the Christ.
You must be able to distinguish between self proclaimed Christians, counterfeit Christians and true ones.
True Christians acknowledge from the holy scriptures, the entire word, the thoughts and the requirements that God demands from us.
Criticizing another for their views when you violate the interpetations yourself, such as proclaiming ones go to a place that burns forever.
There is no such proclaimations within the pages of the Bible that illustrates such a literal place of torment where unrepentent sinners suffer such otrocities.
The Bible's translations of "hell," derives from the Hebrew word Sheols and the Greek word Hades, which, when translated into modern day english means grave.
Another word that gains confusion among people confessing to acknowledge Bible interpetations is the word "Gehenna," which was a sulphur fed firey dump outside Jersusalem used to dispose refuse and to creamate bodies of criminals not worthy of a Christian burial. Jesus used the word to symbolically illustrate that sinners who do not repent, or adhered to Jehovah's standards are firguratively burned in fire to represent no hope of a resurrection.
One note of interest to take in consideration to all Christians who boast divine favour is in Ephesians 4: 4-6 the Bible makes account of only one faith (religion) and the God who created the earth and all the things in it does not dwell in man made temples (churchs, mosques, etc. Acts 17: 24.
Instead of making arguement to prove me wrong, it would be very wise to search the scriptures more accurately to try and prove yourself right!

Religion is like a drug, a powerful addiction for many people. These people have no self confidence or are lonely.
Many people put religion before their own families, i.e. time away from home, tithe, etc.

Most religions are against dancing, alcohol, premarital sex, etc.

So, why would they not want to ban everything but prayer!

I say ban religion!

"Judge Not" Means Keeping an Open Mind"

What a joke. Jesus only condemed the religious leaders of his day. Satan loves to take the bible out of context. I pray for the lost. Jesus is enough for me to be the Judge. Read the bible and see what he has to say about the immoral of today.

"The most frequently violated commandment and the one that carries the severest punishment ".

They will all get you death if you don't believe that Jesus is the Christ, risen on the 3rd day and oh ya, repent of your sins.

BGONE: While you make good conversation, A true christian cannot be shaken from a belief. Jesus is Lord, The Bible is real from cover to cover, Jesus is the ONLY truth and the ONLY way. Other religons only make you work for death. Christianity is free. The name of Jesus is the only name with power and the only name that is constantly questioned (wonder why). Satan is at work. Followers have a promise there too. They go to a place that burns forever.

So,

BGONE,

Just going to toss this out there, but then what you are telling all of us that the 'fictional' Christ was really a woman, and based on Egyptian royalty? I did not fully read that Hoax page you keep deferring everyone to, as i have a B.S. limit per day and the page is rather long, thus exceeding the amount of LIES i can read for one day. One quick point, there are 10 commandments, i did not realize we had the ability to add our own, namely your 11th. So please do not disregard the 12th, Though Shall not perpetuate the said lie in aforementioned commandment 11. Oh you are right it is fun coming up with our own commandments. By the way since Jesus was really a woman, and Egyptian royalty at that, i guess we need to go back and destroy Roman records that have accounts of his life and death. Oh damn, sorry I forgot neither you, nor that page you referenced mentions that. I know, I know, it is hard to make things up in favor of your own argument if you base your stance off of a platform that ignores reality, and purposely leaves out facts as to not discredit your own argument. By the way, in the journalistic world, there are words to describe your writing, and that of the author of that hoax page (which is a hoax in its own) the word is unethical, let's not forget that leaving out historical facts in other to slant your argument is considered unethical in the writing world. Have to run for now, the UFO will be here shortly to pick me up, have an important card game with the government agents that actually assassinated JFK. You have to love those conspiracy theorists. Next, he will be offering excerpts from the Divinci code as his basis of evidence.

Voice of Reason:

Love is a universal word and is the most important aspect of human existence. But homosexual acts, although they are seen by homosexuals as acts of love, are unnatural for this reason: we were made to reproduce the species but homosexual acts are, by definition, sterile. Evil is defined as a privation of good; homosexual acts deprive two human beings of procreating new life. That aside, if you were to witness a homosexual act - between two males or two females - I very much doubt you would teach your children that such acts are normal and to be encouraged (if, as you say, they are authentic acts of love, then you would certainly want to encourage them). And if your children were to describe themselves as homosexual and so unable to give you grandchildren, I doubt you would be happier than if they were straight (though I am sure you would love them no less). We all have a moral law inscribed on our hearts but it is not always easy to hear it when society itself has lost its moral bearings. But we must hear it if society is not to fall further into a moral-relativist abyss. God bless you.

Voice of reason,

Sorry, voice of reason - you missed it - the central message of the Bible is that we are all
fallen sinners, and have need of a savior. For GOD SO LOVED the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:16
King James Version of the Holy Bible

The 1st, (by order of importance), commandment is: You Shall love the Lord your God. In that love we find true peace, not as the world gives, but a peace that surpasses all understanding. Focus on this world, and our own righteousness is but a poor imitation of the true love and peace that come through focus on Jeshua, Jesus, our Messiah.

It truly saddens me to see a discussion like this even taking place. Regardless of everyones personal beliefs, regardless of whether you accept the bible as the divine word of god or an ordinary storybook, we can all agree that it's primary purpose is to spread the message that the true path of peace is paved with love and compassion for ALL mankind. Now as for the whole concept of homosexuality as a sin, I personally find that ludicrous. A sin, in my eyes, is simply any action that intentionally brings harm to another person, usually in order to fulfill a selfish need. Rape, murder, robbery, torture or simply belittling another is considered sinful in my eyes but an act of consentual pleasure between two people who love each other should NEVER be considered a sin, regardless of their genders. It brings harm to no one and brings pleasure to them. Why should we condemn them for simply doing what makes them happy? Think about the alternative, if homosexuals weren't able to be in open relationships with each other at all, they would be trapped in a loveless hetero relationship, wondering if their thoughts are evil. Wondering if they're insanse or just sick, suffering from anxiety, depression and possibly substance abuse. Not only that, if they had any children they too would suffer. Stuck growing up in a house where cold, bitter parents are their only role models, they would gain a very skewed view on healthy relationships that would follow them till the end of their days. Remember, sin is but a word that has many different meanings to many different people. Love is a universal word. We all know what love is, we all know how positive and powerful it is so let us celebrate those who were lucky enough to find it, regardless of their gender. Oh, and to bgone, yes, they have scientifically disproven SOME of the tales of the bible, however, they have proven through roman texts as well as others that Jesus of Nazareth WAS a real man who walked the earth some two thousand years ago. I glanced at this "hoax-buster" you tout so lovingly and based simply on the layout of the page, it's clear how irreputable it is. you either work for the site or are simply an imbecile. Based on the fact that you now feel the need to personally attack others in this discussion, I believe it's the latter. I truly pity you.

BGone, the Bible is a place to go for relationship advice, because it is modeled after the greatest relationship ever: God and His people. Bgone I completely disagree with almost everything you have to say, but I must admitt that I do admire you a little. At least you know what you believe, and why you believe it. I know with out a shadow of doubt that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and that He is changed my life for the better. But too many "christians" just say they believe, and they dont even have the slightest idea of why they do. This has aloud so many "t.v. preachers" to come and prey on these people, eventually giving Christ and His people a bad name. I want to exhort Christians everywhere regardless of denomination (which I am opposed to, and I believe is the farthest thing from what Christ taught) to dig deep, and yearn to KNOW just what it is they believe, and WHY they believe it. Bgone, I look forward to what you will right next. Your unique rhectoric makes me dig even deeper into the fact of Christ and His existence. See you next week.

This Mr. C. Welton Gaddy may have an open mind towards his remditions of gay lifestyles and what he considers an acceptance on divine terms of meaningful loving relationships, but he's not well informed about scriptures and he preaches words and doctrines of man, not God's.
God does not approve of homosexuality anymore than he does of violence, yet with religious information at the fingertips of everyone, the world continues to escalate downward to the path of ruination because we do not follow God's guidance accurately.
Our acceptance of issues of morality, violence and unlawful practises are contrary to the scriptures. Anyone who has a mind capable of reading Biblical texts can evaluate from them many things that are not being taught, or differentiate in churches.
Yet, a man who claims to know God is giving deceiving advice to people thinking its acceptable on divine terms.
When the day of Jehovah's wrath come upon all you unsuspecting people, you will have no excuse for your actions in God's eyes, he will make you accountable in his terms, not Mr. Gaddy's!

I Corinthians 6:9-11:

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicaters, nor idolitors, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor theives, nor covetous, nor drunkerds, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
King James Version of the Holy Bible

Praise be to God for His Son Jesus Christ, who died for our sins, and prepared the way; (repentance and belief); so that we can be forgiven,born again, not in the desires of our old sinful nature, but in a new nature: cleansed, and set free from the power of sin and death.

TDAY, any and all violations of the 10 commandments can be and therefore are justified using the Bible, (hoaxes work well for this purpose). Hate is a violation of number 5, just as a random example. It's justified in the case of homosexuals because there are passages in the Bible condemning them, gays to hell. Of course there's the universal catch-all, forgivness.

Mr Clinton stated that he believed in "death bed conversions." One can violate all the commandments as often as possible, (necessary to get what one wants) and still be saved. That rule does not apply to homosexuals who must do as Jerry Falwell dictates, accept Jesus Christ as their lord and savior and do it right now.

ANANONMOUS, you need counceling. Call my secretary and make an appointment. On second thought, never mind. We only repair brains, not make them. Have faith. We're working on artificial brains for you right now. They're not much but anything beats what ya got. You could be just another victim of negative education, if you're lucky. That mality can be cured with the real thing. Are you educatable? Can you look at a picture?

Paganplace,

Yes, mankind does need to wake up. And if you, they and I followed all 10 commandments we would all wake up to a world were the headlines would reflect abundant living for all of mankind.

"Disinformation is forever."

But.

People can be better than that.

That's a challenge.

To too many, the Bible has become a *talisman* that's supposed to ward off some horrible fate they can't look at, even if worship of that book demonstrably hurts people.

Probably the worst thing about it is they're so afraid of the horrible, horrible regular world that they go to great lengths to vilify it and not look at or speak with it.

"War Is Peace,
Ignorance Is Strength,
Freedom is Slavery,"

...they say.

Worst thing you could tell them is that "*it's really not so bad,* there's just some things we gotta do."

They'd rather go find an enemy than realize, 'You know, for the cost of this stupid Iraq war, we could have *bought the whole damn country, sent them to college, and given them a Happy Meal a day in perpetuity."

Feh. Wake up.

Fool of Wizdom: I don't believe the term "made up" applies. Warped, twiwsted, perverted, in short, hoaxified does apply. I got it, what the hoax buster is saying. Maybe difficult to understand is catching?

The SOURCE of the basis-in-fact of the Bible has been found, at least identified. Take any factual account of someone's life and warp, twist, pervert, in short change outcomes to meet a goal and a hoax is created. That's how the Bible came into being. It's began in ignorance, people who could not read the original story of the life of Amenophis IV, many different people but only one story. What they wrote was warped, twisted, perverted to begin with and later altered to fit the goal of religion.

To my way of thinking that's it, the Bible is kaput, history, dead as usable in any capacity other than a literary curosity. For sure it is not the place to get advice on human relations. Of course that could be and is being argued out of context here, the same context that allows folks with agendas to prove their points. Anything can be proved with a hoax. Proving the Bible is a hoax should have a calming effect on human relations, in my opinion.

Bgone:

That wasn't a personal attack; it was advice.

However, I've reread the post, and now think it's not as crazy as I first thought. Just incoherent. You know what you mean, but you're not putting it across. It needs a whole lot of background and explanation before it will make sense.

COMPAZZION=GRAY AREA!
JUDGING=GRAY AREA!
QUEERS=BLACK AND WHITE!

And by the way, why do you suppose it's never black that is right, and white that is wrong? And what's up with, "brothers in Christ"? Is not Christine just as christlike?

If white=right and black=wrong, man=christ and woeman=not, then Christianz=fake bastardz excusing their own hate.

Imagine what black and white areas will be gray tomorrow!

Oh, and transcendant means holy! I am transcendant, I am transcendant, I am transcendant, it's me, it's me...

"For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were EYEWITNESSES of His majesty."

BGONE I understand were you are coming from. As long as you can "prove" that one thing in the Bible is made up, then the entire Word of God is made up. Me personally, I believe it is the Word of God. In matters of opinion debate is futile. But I do have to ask this to you BGone. For someone who believes that this whole Bible thing is made up, you sure do spend a lot of time in the "faith" section of this webpage. I mean I see your comments everywhere. I am not suprised that the majority of the comments are opposed to Jesus being the Christ. From the day He was born, attempts were made to eliminate Him. Yet He still stands. If Jesus is not the Son of God, then He deserves a frickin Oscar. For someone who sounds as intelligent as you do, I am suprised that you are so quick to say that there is no proof of the validity of Bible. For starters, how about the Dead Sea Scrolls. How about all of the prophecies that were fullfilled by Christ. Some of the strongest evidence that supports the Bible being true was discovered by those who made attempts to "prove" its falsehood. BGONE may I recommend C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity. Or something written by Josh McDowell or Kenneth Ham. It is only fair to find out for yourself if the Bible is false. But dont say it is false if you have never made any attempt to study for yourself(I am not assuming that you never have, it is just a generalized statement) Just as you suppose that people just have blind faith passed down from their parents, so is the same with those who do not believe. That is why you should know why you believe in what you do. The Bible even teaches this: "Always be ready to give a defense to every one who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and gentleness." BGONE you are very intelligent, but I am afraid that it is your downfall. God says that He uses the foolish things of the world to confound the wise, and the weak to bring down the strong.

Ryan Smith, God takes care of homosexuality without help from people, ala Sodom. People did not pass judgement there, God did. What's God waiting for now anyhow? Shouldn't God hail down brimstone on homosexuals at this very moment? Maybe the tale about Sodom is a lie?

Are we all sinners? Speak for yourself. Judging in place of God must be a grieveous sin. God took care of homosexuals at Sodom and God can do the same now. Well, unless that Sodom tale is a lie told by someone with a grudge against homosexuals or something. Wonder how God feels about people putting words, lies no less in Her mouth?

You sho is brave.

http://www.hoax-buster.org

..the above is the modern day link to tohu and bohu

Judge not, lest ye be judged is a truth transcendant in the Bible. However, that does not mean that we make exception for sin. The Bible is clear on the issue of homosexuality. It's really just not one of those "gray" areas. This one is Black and White. (ie..The destruction of Sodom, and NUMEROUS references throught the New Testament) While we cannot pass judgement on anyone else for their sin (as we are all sinners), we can love them and keep from accepting their sin as morally right.

Sin sinnity sin sin? Sinator, sinitee, you're a sinner, I'm a sinner, we're all the sinter of our own universe...well, some of us are the sinter of our own universe... ;)

so we are not supposed to judge anymore? well then all those rapist, murders and child molesters should just walk free? now you will say if they agree its ok, then i tell you that most child molesters talk their victims into sex. and what about multiple partners, are we supposed to say that is great too. by your standard, or lack thereof, anyone can do anything at any time. the bible has a set of rules and we have moderated the punishment in some instances, so its not death for people having sex with the same sex, or with animals, but that does not mean we have to think its just great that they do it.
the greatest sin is to pretend that sin is no longer sinful.

A conservative's love for their child is dependent on the behavior and position of that child. It will be hated if it is too weak. Indeed, it could be said that the child will be hated exactly as long as it is less powerful then it's parent, and only after becoming more powerful will the parent love the child...and then the parent will aspire to be like the child. This is the way the conservative mind works, and it never once considers that a liberal's mind might work differently. How can one reason with a mind so unlike one's own? Go home, folks, there's nothing to see here, nothing to see here...

John Conolley,

I hope you read my post above too. I didn't get that from hoax buster. I did get the history, claimed to be in writing that I cannot read, of what is known as "the Amarna era" of Egyptian history. I read other authors on that subject too, half dozen or so. I can identify things he, hoax buster and they did not say.

Maybe you should try something besides personal attacks. If you disagree at least show some verifiable written record of what is widely known as "the wisdom of Solomon" that was written contemporarily, at the time it happened and not someone's inspiration.

The Bilbe is a proved hoax. Only criminals, lawyers and the insane use hoaxes to argue their cases. Find a legitimate source to verify your arguments or...

The most frequently violated commandment and the one that carries the severest punishment is number 11, "Thou shalt not believe thy own lies."

Perhaps the reverand and all others should avoid arguing based upon the contents of a hoax document, the Bible. Remove the Bible from your list of references and see what you have left to substantiate your claims, no matter your stand on the question.

The best you can say is you were told the Bible was the word of God by adults while you were still a child. You're not a child any more. Verify your referecnes. Try to at least act like an adult.

BGONE,

You need to stop referring people to Hoaxbusters. Judging by the style of writing (which I've seen before) and the rambling, incoherent arguments, that guy is a borderline schizophrenic.

And that argument you present above:

"King Solomon is a fictional person based upon a real one, Pharaoh Amenophis III. It was his wife and concubine, "two women under one roof" with babies, his sons one of which died in the night."

etc.,

I hope to god is a quotation and not your own words, because it strongly suggests schizophrenia. If those are your words, seriously man, get help. Things are going wrong for you.

A very thought provoking article , which delves into the deep far regions of our human psyche. To have faith in God, one aught to break the shackles of our pre-concieved and pre-conditioned mind . It not only opens new vistas and broadens our range of broad based thinking, but also makes us less judgemental. Having said that, we should stop looking at a thing, a person or even someone's view point as 'right' or 'wrong'. Being a Hindu , and having a bit of a brushings with the spiritual teachings of Swami Vivekananda and other such gurus, I believe in one of the philosophies of Buddhism ... which evolves on "the doctrine of nothingness" , our evolution from a chasm or chaos , and our ending and annihiliation into the final frontiers of cosmos. Even Christanity partly confides with this theory of oblivion. So let us not be religio-centric, and have a non-judgemental , matured and pristine faith in all sects of worship, to enjoy the bliss of 'nirvana'.

Ted:

for more than a thousand years the Church taught you that the sun revolved around the earth, and was willing to kill people who said otherwise. Time to evolve Ted.

Rev. Gaddy: I think every Christian would agree with what you say (namely, the dignity of the homosexual must be respected), but for 2000 years the Church has taught that homosexual practice is wrong. That isn't a judgement of the person, but a moral judgement. We must hate the sin, but love the sinner.

Mr. Gaddy,

I will fight until my death to make sure that your fake vision on Christianity is defeated.

"The Bible is clear about what a covenant relationship really is. Christ is the bridegroom (male) and we as His Bride (female)"

Wow! So THAT'S why Christianity has been screwing us for 2000 years!

I checked out the website (hoax buster) that bgone is a staunch advocate of. I recommend that everyone checks it out to see how freakin lousy of a page it is. And you say that the Bible is make believe? I dont have half of the faith required to believe one statement on that page created by some guy bill at murray state. You cant be serious bgone. Are you?

bgone:) you need counseling! Suggest you make an appointment this weekend.

Truth is absolute, it is scary that people will try to break and bend it as they please to fit God into their box of understanding. The Bible is clear about what a covenant relationship really is. Christ is the bridegroom (male) and we as His Bride (female) Read song of songs. On the outside is a love story of man and women, but with a deeper understanding it is a love story between the reconciliation of God and His children; Christ and His Bride. Check out Ephesians 5:28-33. Also, I have no doubt that God can speak through a gay indidvidual. Not everyone who God used for His glory was a "right winged, tounge talkin, holly rollin, evangelical. Furthermore, just because the Bible only addresses this issues a few times does not mean that it still is not a serious issue in Gods eyes. The Bible does not address injecting oxycontin into your veins,(which I used to do) so does that mean it is okay? We all have all faults, and we dont have the right to judge anyone. But we do have something to "try" to line are lives up with, and that is the Bible. And is of utmost important that we dont make attempts to water down what it says. One more thing to address bgone: I am interested in the "proof" that you have that the Bible is a hoax. I would love to share a little apologetics with you. There have been millions of attempts to taint the Bible and Gods Son the Christ: recently we have had the gospel of Judas, the Davinci Code, and coming this easter we have this documentary by James Cameron about the discovery of the coffin of Jesus, and Mary and so on, in which even non-believers are already saying is a joke. Fact of the matter is, is that people have already forgotten about the davinci code, and so on. But people are still talkin about Jesus. Many more attempts there will be to try and crush the validity of the Bible, but only soon to be thwarted and forgotten. Christs foundation cannot be moved because it is truth. To close I just want to say that God loves a gay person just as much as the "best" Christian, but that doesnt mean that God approves of the behavior. "While we were enemies of God, Christ died for us."

FRANCO: - King Solomon is a fictional person based upon a real one, Pharaoh Amenophis III. It was his wife and concubine, "two women under one roof" with babies, his sons one of which died in the night.

The dead baby was heir to the throne of Egypt that his granny wanted, had in a way at the time and intended to keep. She had the little tyke whacked and intended to get the other grandson, the other woman's baby too according to it's mother. That baby, (Ishmael) was saved when St Joseph, (Amenophis III) fled with it and it's mother to Egypt. Oops! They were already there.

Granny finally got the other potential heir to the throne, (John the Baptist) after he baptized Jesus, (Amenophis IV). She had his head cut off. According to sacred scriptures, and angel of the lord God, (granny) came in the night and whacked the firstborn son of the Egyptian. No kidding!

http://www.hoax-buster.org page 2 has the full story. It proves the Bible is a hoax so anything you get from it you get from a hoax. Small wonder it contradicts itself.

The God that created you is the fertility god, (holy ghost) that comes in the night and impregnates women with husbands away at war.

Mavvadat: Oh no, I don't buy your argument. When I break God's law, I have sinned. It has nothing to do with my goals. This is where you and I part company. The wisest man who ever lived, King Solomon, says it well, " God will bring every deed into judgment..."
I do not make my own rules; He created me, He sets the rule. There you have it!

Rev, your open mind allows you to "stear in the general direction" to wherever it is you are going. That's the old fashioned way of navigating made necessary by inadequate equipment. The good news is, you'll get to where you want to go. The better news is, superior navigating equipment can be invented. It won't do you as much good as future generations but in the end your journey leads to the same place as theirs, with a little more difficulty getting there and nothing more.

What you said, realize it or not, is the Bible is an impoverished place to get one's personal philosophy. I'm sure you know it's a proved hoax by now. So let me suggest, as your essay clearly, (at least to me) states, the constitution and it's predesassor, the "Declaration of Independance" are much better documents than the Bible to guide us in judging our neighbors.

Once it becomes widley known that the fictional person, Jesus Christ was based upon a "woman with a wife" your views will be a lot easier for the general population to accept. Having said that, let me add that the person who made that determination expressed the opinion that Jesus was not gay, http://www.hoax-buster.org/ses with reasonable argument in support, "only males were qualified to be Pharaoh" Pharaoh being the general case of Christs.

Today on the Washington post online front page:

Behavior Propels HIV's Spread

Multiple, concurrent relationships among Botswana's young help drive the disease.

In light of such a headline,
again, I would like to propose, for civil discussion, Romans 1:27 and/or perhaps any correlation of this verse with the headline above.

Why was the apostle Paul inspired to present the scenario in this verse as 'error'?

What is meaning of-
'receiving in themselves that recompence of their error..'

I use common sense. Whomever someone is having sex with gay or straight is not my business unless it is me they are having sex with. Otherwise, I am sticking my nosae where it does not belong and acting judgemental, whether I attempt to use religion as an excuse. I hope others act the same way.

Franco,

There are two senses in which someone could do something wrong.

First, in the usual sense of "illegal" activity, where someone breaks the law of the land.

Second, in the sense that if someone sets certain rules for their self (according to some value that they hold in esteem) and then fail to follow their own rules or live up to their own values. This is what we call "hypocrisy".

In the Hebrew Bible the word "sin" comes from the Hebrew for "slipping" or "misstepping." In the New Testament, it comes from the Greek for "to miss the mark." Therefore, the word sin presupposes that some goal is set up which is trying to be accomplished, but is failed to be met. But if a homosexual does not share the same moral goals as you, then they cannot possibly "sin" in either sense of the word. Why? Because you cannot legitimately fail to hit a mark or step rightly unless you were trying to hit that particular mark or step in that particular way.

If someone is living according to the laws they legislate for themselves, then they cannot sin, except by breaking the law of the land. Living in a country is admission that you will follow the laws of that country. Why do you keep supposing that living on Earth is reason to follow the laws that your particular god legislates?

why pretend you have any religion at all if there are no rules to live by. warm and fuzzy is not a religion. im ok your ok is not a religion.

Rev gaddy: Well-argued regarding who does the judging. However, God's Word does not change change, it is immutable. Sin is sin, no matter how you slice it or dice it. Heavens, we are all sinners! But judgment is His department :)

Very well said Mr. Gaddy.

Yes!

Thank you. I do believe that God loves me just the way She made me. And that my relationship is just as sacred as anyone elses.

Right on.