Why Joe (and Kanye and Serena) Won't Apologize

maddymappo:

Great post. Your comment sums up the truth of what happened and what Wilson should have done (i.e. made a public apology; not a back-door, insincere apology for his demeanor ONLY)!!

I find it insulting that idiots are calling loop-holes LIES. No one said that the bill was finished and I have YET to hear about a flood of Republicans willing to sit down with the Democrats in drafting health care coverage. The Republicans looked so STUPID holding up their pieces of paper with "supposed" plans for health care when the President stated that he has an "open door" for anyone who wishes to contribute to the health care discussion.

I wonder how many of these jokers actually made any attempt to meet w/Pres. Obama....

Picture Congressman Joe, yelling "You Lie", surrounded by other Republicans, with various expressions of self-righteous smirks, in spite of Joe's rudeness. Picture Rapper West, being booed off stage by those supposed low-life celebrities, with various expressions of shock and indignation at West's rudeness.
Where would you rather sit? I would chose to sit with those who recognize bad behavior and express their distain for such behavior. No, I wouldn't be sitting there high-fiving good ol' Joe, like all those Rebulicans. Where would you be sitting?

Thank you for this insightful and desperately necessary addition to the conversation. We need to learn how to talk with one another again!

I believe it is time to hold all people accountable regardless of there race or color for racism. Webster’s Dictionary defines racist as – someone who believes in the inherent superiority of a particular race or is prejudice against others. We have two examples of possible prejudice. Republican Joe Wilson calling the President a liar and Kanya West publicly taking from Taylor Swift and trying to give to Beyonce. At fist it doesn’t seem that Mr. Wilson’s statement was prejudice against the President. However, who calls out liar in congress unless you think you are superior to the person addressing congress non less the President. With the same line of thought Kanya West would not have let his emotions get the best of him if he didn’t think that his race is superior in the music industry. I think it is time to hold all people accountable for racism. Mr. Wilson should not be re-elected and Mr West should not be allowed in the music industry.

There has always been an unlimited supply of men and women. Unfortunately, there has always been a limited number of ladies and gentlemen.

What we are seeing are the actions of people who were never well brought up. They don't see what they did as wrong, and they never will. That is part of their upbringing by mothers who were not ladies and by fathers who were not gentlemen.

It doesn't matter if your ancestor had a title- class comes from awareness of other people and your relationship to them and consideration of them. It has nothing to do with wealth or position or race.

These people mentioned have no class and they don't understand that they have no class. It's not about money or talent- money or skill can bring you into society, but it takes class to stay there.

Power and class combined is a wonderful force for good. Power without class is scary.

The reason we're so outraged at incivility is that everybody can see it now. In the early part of last century, and before that, a politician could be as rude and disrepectful as they wanted to be, but nobody ever saw it except the small number of people who were present. Now, Joe Wilson's outburst is all over the place - on TV, in every newspaper, on every talk show, on YouTube, being discussed on message boards, and talked about in blogs. You stick your foot in your mouth like Wilson did (or Kanye or whoever), and everybody can see it. That's why it seems worse, and, in a way, it is worse, because the full brunt of public backlash falls on that person. It's not just the well-informed who know what happened, it's everybody. And by and large, the U.S. population prefers civility.

moonchild64 is TOTALLY wrong. The British House of Commons DOES have rules about defaming people. Yes, members are allowed to boo, but only during a prescribed segment of time and not WHILE SOMEONE HAS THE MIC. They do play hard ball in the B/HoC, but they have rules and they follow those rules. Wilson's outburst would NOT be allowed in the B/HoC.

Another point is that the Prime Minister is the first among equals in the HoC. The closest in the US system would be the Majority Leader, Rep Hoyer. But booing the PM is a lot different than booing the Queen. President Obama is the head of state, equivalent to position that the Queen occupies in the British system.

moonchild64 you just don't know what you are talking about, or your political views have blinded you from looking at the situation objectively. See - I can do that without slandering you, without interrupting you, without referring to your ideas as fecal matter and without destroying the culture here on-line that allows for the free exchange of ideas.

Joe Wilson DID NOT apologize to President Obama. He called a government phone number and whispered his confession of guilt.

Joe Wilson is a liar, a sneak, and a coward- the finest flower of the GOP.

A real man would have apologized in public and drunk from the cup as Jesus did.

Joe Wilson only wanted to get money from bigoted fools (gullible idiots?) for his personal gain.

Who gave his son an appointment to Annapolis? Was it Joe or one of his syncophants? That is an education valued at $250,000. What did they get in return? What do we taxpayers get?

What were his grades? Where is he now?

"Professor" Strickland wrote...
Reading this blog I quickly remembered why I almost never read them: I am not sure which comments are the more superficial and lacking of meaningful content - the writer of the opinion piece, or the commentators.

Well Prof, I didn't see that in this piece. The Rabbi was thoughtfully bemoaning the narcissistic society that we have become. Conservatives rail against the culture of victimhood while claiming to be victims. Entitlement now means more than some government program. It has morphed into "I got mine, now screw you." The sense of shared sacrifice that marked many of our advances as a nation seems to be on life support.

The behavior of these high profile people illustrates their sense of "entitlement" to behave in this hideous fashion.

What also bothers me is the phrase "I made a mistake" as in "My little johnny made a mistake when he murdered those people"...

No, Johnny set out to kill and was succesful. A mistake is taking a wrong turn or picking the wrong color socks.

Joe Wilson, Serena and Kanye...No mistakes here. It was willfull boorish behavior. Serena was punished with a loss and a fine, Wilson was reprimanded and we can only hope that Kanye pays a fine in the court of public opinion.

Very nicely said. Thank you.

Reading this blog I quickly remembered why I almost never read them: I am not sure which comments are the more superficial and lacking of meaningful content - the writer of the opinion piece, or the commentators. While in agreement that civility is not at present our greatest cultural attribute, as an educator I am equally concerned over our lack of intelligent discourse. Maybe less blogging and just plain old quality journalism would set the Post apart from today´s technology propelled market based mass communications.

Incivility is nothing new, but it does become more apparent in this age of the Internet and cable TV. People have been ragging on each other since the first caveman was offended when the guy in the next cave began pounding on a hollow log at all hours.

We lost decorum long ago, but trying to defend your own outburst by saying "everyone does it," or that the other person is an idiot, too, paints both of you with the same muck-laden brush.

Besides, the apologies we hear these days aren't really apologies. "I'm sorry you were offended" doesn't admit wrongdoing; in fact, it adds more blame to the offended party by implying that he is somehow wrong to have been offended.

What truly bothers me is the pervasiveness of incivility and sense of entitlement people seem to have now. No one can admit that the other side might have a point. The point of discourse is to weigh opinion. When discourse is impossible, how can rational decisions be made?

I'm sick to death of talk show radio and cable TV rabblerousers. I used to think that taking the high road would somehow prevail, but I don't think that anymore. All the high roads have been swallowed up by the muck.

"The only way the President didn't lie is if he doesn't know what's in the bill. The bill does not require proof of citizenship to access health-care."

*************************************

But the fact is that what IS in the bill Section 246 states very clearly that illegals would NOT be covered. That's what the president said - he didn't say "because we would require proof" or anything other than what is clearly stated in the Bill. Thus, the president told the truth, it's there in black and white. That the bill perhaps needed some clarification as to just how that would be accomplished is another thing altogether.

My goodness you folks on the right can twist words - words we all saw in the Bill (I know you did as well) into anything you want them to mean can't you? How can we ever have civil discourse when words no longer have any meaning or we are allowed to make that meaning be anything we want it to be?

Dictionary - look up each of the words and what the president said and clearly, the words he spoke were words of truth and not as Wilson said. This shouldn't even be up for debate, it's NOT a matter of opinion.

Mr. Wilson could have suggested (under different circumstances) that the words needed to show some way of validating a persons residence status but that doesn't take away from the fact that the words spoken by the president were TRUE - it was in the bill.

You on the right seem to live in a world that is without truth or reality.

To those commenting that Wilson did apologize to the President, that is acknowledged in the article. The point Brad Hirschfield is trying to make is that "Joe Wilson owes his colleagues and the nation an apology."

"WWHEN and which one of you have the guts to come forward and state these accusations of leveling "racism" as answer to criticism about obama is wrong?"

**********************

Criticism is one thing - what the right has shown is absolute rage and hatred - this is not normal behavior! Sure, we disagree in politics all the time but generally we don't refer to our president as Hitler, monkey, show pictures with the presidents face on an Africian tribesman and never before can I remember questioning the legitimacy of the president by way of his citizenship - calling him an illegal immigrant. I saw these signs at the 9/12 march so if you think that you can truly deny the "racism" charge then it is you who is not seeing clearly.

Not all the anger is racism - I don't think anyone believes that. But the right deligitamizes themselves when the can't seem to have one clear message that validates their anger - they are all over the place with a majority of them not even knowing what it is they are angry about.

Further, they don't seem to acknowledge the fact that our countrys banking system was on the edge of distruction - we were heading for a deep depression. This was handed to the president after 8 years of Republican leadership - where is your responsibility and acceptance of that responsibility in that? You seem to think you have been absolved form any responsibility for the situation.

I am not an economist, I doubt that you are so I have to rely on the informtaion provided by those who are. The situation was as they determined, I trust that and I for one am grateful they were able to stop the country from going off the cliff.

Show a bit of graditude and work for your country instead of trying so hard to tear us apart.

EWH1's comment is revealing, in a way that goes beyond its heavy-handed sarcasm. He (I assume he) refers to Obama as "threatening all who oppose his socializing of the US health care system." The scary thing is that the "threatening" part is sincere. A constant thread in recent right-wing protests is that the Administration is engaging in survelliance, physical coersion, constructing enemies lists, suborning schools as platforms for propaganda, or even planning concentration camps. (Michelle Backman said yesterday that the Administration planning restrictions on how much Americans can eat!) It's all so loopy, so unhinged, so lacking in any factual basis as to defy understanding. And it invites any rational person to wonder what's really behind all this. We have an only slightly left of center president proposing only slightly left of center policies--policies that would leave social arrangements in the U.S. we to the right of those in Canada, Australia, the UK, the Netherlands, Germany, France, Ireland, Italy, Switzerland, New Zealand, Austria,
Belgium, Denmand, Finland, Sweden, Norway, Spain, Portugal, Korea, and even Japan and in some respects Hong Kong, Singapore and Taiwan--and he's accused of being a socialist, communist and fascist. (Nice trick to pull all that off at once!) Eveny country I just mentioned excepting Hong Kong (not) and Singpore (only partly) is a democracy, and every one has universal health insurance. It's obviously not about Obama's policies. Most protests don't even engage them, and are about an entirely imagined version of what he's actually proposed. The deep, deep irrational strain in our civic discourse is troubling. Many who disagree with Obama, or the Democratic party's agenda in general, will respond: "No--it's about his policies, and our views on how the country should be run." Fine. Then you have to work much, much harder to separate yourself from the Glen Becks, Rush Limbaughs and their followers who increasingly define your party.

EWH1's comment is revealing, in a way that goes beyond its heavy-handed sarcasm. He (I assume he) refers to Obama as "threatening all who oppose his socializing of the US health care system." The scary thing is that the "threatening" part is sincere. A constant thread in recent right-wing protests is that the Administration is engaging in survelliance, physical coersion, constructing enemies lists, suborning schools as platforms for propaganda, or even planning concentration camps. (Michelle Backman said yesterday that the Administration planning restrictions on how much Americans can eat!) It's all so loopy, so unhinged, so lacking in any factual basis as to defy understanding. And it invites any rational person to wonder what's really behind all this. We have an only slightly left of center president proposing only slightly left of center policies--policies that would leave social arrangements in the U.S. we to the right of those in Canada, Australia, the UK, the Netherlands, Germany, France, Ireland, Italy, Switzerland, New Zealand, Austria,
Belgium, Denmand, Finland, Sweden, Norway, Spain, Portugal, Korea, and even Japan and in some respects Hong Kong, Singapore and Taiwan--and he's accused of being a socialist, communist and fascist. (Nice trick to pull all that off at once!) Eveny country I just mentioned excepting Hong Kong (not) and Singpore (only partly) is a democracy, and every one has universal health insurance. It's obviously not about Obama's policies. Most protests don't even engage them, and are about an entirely imagined version of what he's actually proposed. The deep, deep irrational strain in our civic discourse is troubling. Many who disagree with Obama, or the Democratic party's agenda in general, will respond: "No--it's about his policies, and our views on how the country should be run." Fine. Then you have to work much, much harder to separate yourself from the Glen Becks, Rush Limbaughs and their followers who increasingly define your party.

The comment posted by "DAMNEDGENTLEMEN," was the only item posted that made any sense, even I could relate! There are lots of Joe Wilsons walking around. They can be found at the food store, at work and generally, out and about! Oh don't forget, on the road too! I don't ride around with a weapon like the Knuckleheads I've been reading about, but I do keep a camera! Like roaches, they try to hide then!!! Disgusting! DAMNEDGENTLEMEN, Great Post!!!!

Any child made to apologize on a schoolyard knows that a forced apology is transparently insincere.

Those who continue to defend Wilson's actions are at best dissemblers.

What they are 'at worst' can only be known to them in those moments when they are (hopefully) honest with themselves about why they are so passionately driven to oppose one thing rather than support another.

Joe Wilson's "apology" to the president was lame at best. For him to say that his apology was accepted is crazy - what was the WH to do? Say NO! we don't accept your apology?

Wilson then went on TV and did campaign ads that clearly showed a man who didn't think he did anything wrong and that the apology was insincere - he did it because party members told him to so that they could say, "Joe apologized and the apology was accepted" and that's enough for the right wing loons of this country who are now making a hero out of the crude impolite politicatian.

Not only that, the right keeps saying that the president did lie when in fact Section 246 of the Bill the president was refering to clearly states that people in this country illegally WERE NOT eligible.

wow, are we in trouble as a nation or what? anger, insults and incivility are empowering individually but destructive to the community. we are a country facing change, thus change is discomforting to many. they trust not that the change can be good but in any case it is inevitable. obama incurs rage because he is not white and that he is promoting policies of change. it is not an overt racism, but a more insidious problem of lack of trust. obama may fail in his attempt at promoting progressive policies, but this does not alter the fact that he was elected. that a barrier to change has been breached, and will be reacted to, perhaps negatively in temporary terms. but the barrier will be breached again and again now that it is open.
back to the point of civility. joe wilson,seerna williams and kayne west owe apology for breaching etiquette of the situation they found themselves in. they owe apology for that. we must demand it, for if we continue to allow it, discourse on change will be impossible.

Joe Wilson's outburst reflected the enormous frustration the American people feel with the loopholes in the health bill. He apologized for the breach of decorum in that venue, and the president accepted his apology. Kanye West was boorish in ruining Taylor Swift's award acceptance -- but there's a whole lot more at stake for America in obama's socialist agenda. Bravo Joe Wilson for stating an uncomfortable truth.

To lump in a black sports figure and an black entertainer with a white politician who insulted a president and the congress is a form of racism. Entertainers and sports person are not vital to our country. The president and congress are!!

No one is defending Serena or Kanye. But there are many who are supporting Joe Wilson's insult to the President and go on to further the insult by insisting that the President really is a lier, the President is the problem.

Joe Wilson, not only insulted the President his behaviour demeaned us all. He diminished our respect for the traditions of our government. The President is invited to speak before Congress, he was their guest. Yes, Joe Wilson absolutely owed an apology to his peers in the House of Representatives and the American people. But he did not make any more apologies because he was being praised for his behaviour. His initial statement was, after all, that his Party leaders told him to apologize to the President, not that he was ashamed and repentent.

To DBLAKEROSS,

I see you have finally joined the spirit of the article in question... Apology accepted (Sept 16, 5:26pm). Let this be a teaching moment for you...

There are however, a few points you still need to learn. One, everyone is entitled to their opinion whether or not you agree with it. Two, responding to opposing views with thuggish, adolescent remarks exhibits an inability to formulate a coherent argument. This is what a child does when it becomes frustrated, not yet having learned how to properly express oneself. If your Liberal stance is so superior, then formulating an intelligent response shouldn't pose too great a challenge. (Alas this too, seems to pose a difficult task even for your silver-tongued, indefatigable leader, who has resorted to threatening all who oppose his socialising the US healthcare system.)

The call to “ready the pistols” was in reference to my mentioning Aaron Burr’s – A Democrat by the way- preferred method of dispatching Alexander Hamilton; it was not to be viewed as a serious offer. You on the other hand, will not let go, wishing to exhibit your “Liberal manliness” (oxymoron) with your repeated offers of fisticuffs. Why the complex, domineering wife? Why not settle for a beer and Kumbaya moment at the White House? Rest assured, your day will come…

No one is defending Serena or Kanye. But there are many who are supporting Joe Wilson's insult to the President and go on to further the insult by insisting that the President really is a lier, the President is the problem.

Joe Wilson, not only insulted the President his behaviour demeaned us all. He diminished our respect for the traditions of our government. The President is invited to speak before Congress, he was their guest. Yes, Joe Wilson absolutely owed an apology to his peers in the House of Representatives and the American people. But he did not make any more apologies because he was being praised for his behaviour. His initial statement was, after all, that his Party leaders told him to apologize to the President, not that he was ashamed and repentent.

Kayne West showed his disrespect in many ways - starting with the way he was dressed at an awards celebration. He looked like a hood. Taylor Swift, the lovely young woman he so rudely interrupted was dressed appropriately showing she appreciated the honor. This was her first award. He stole her moment and that was inexcusable.
If he were drunk, as was mentioned, he should have been escorted out of the auditorium.

What Joe Wilson did was inappropriate. There is a certain decorum in the formal setting of a joint session of congress that needs to be respected. He apologized twice but the Democrats wanted to get that extra pound of flesh and use their time which should have been spent on the country's business to censure him. Both were wrong.

And Serena. She knows better and her fine was appropriate.

He blurted out in public and should show humility in public. He is a horrible example for our children!!!

We have tought our children, by our own actions to...divorce when the going gets tough, quit, when something more opportunist comes along, lie to get ahead, have no time for a genuine smile or second of sincereness. No. It's money that matters in the old USA. When the fabric of America falls apart at the seams, because a President can lie about a war that cost Americans trillions, at the same time thousand of troops and innocent people die from this war of lies, when a President has an affair and disgraces the Presidency, when the opposing party, spits in to face at every gesture of good will for all, at the first black American President...we are what we eat. America has become most violent, least educated, least informed, less classy, more outraged, and more opportunist without a care in the world for fellow Americans. The terrorist WON. They don't need to bomb us again. Were self destructing on our own.

So when Gates, while in his own home, asked a police officer for his badge number, it was disorderly conduct? But when crazy white people start screaming at congressman at town hall meetings, or show up at presidential speeches openly carrying guns, it's democracy in action?

Joe Wilson cannot apologize because he has finally found some fame. He is more famous now than he ever hoped to be, but as famous as he thinks he deserves to be.

He's a celeb now. His ego is stroked by the lunatic fringe and he likes it. It's bringing in cash and adoration. It's so much more gratifying to have a fan club than not.

For the most part, this is a good commentary. All three individuals cited behaved badly; however, their subsequent actions were quite divergent. Joe Wilson apologized to the President thru the President's Chief of Staff only after being strongly encouraged to do so by Republican leaders. He actually said publically that he did it to appease his party leaders. He did not feel that he owed an apology to ANYONE else. Serena did say that her actions were wrong and inappropriate, AND she apologized to the line judge, the tournament, her fans, etc. more than once. Likewise, Khanya-- whom I am not a fan of-- apologized to Taylor, Taylor's mother, and his fans, AND said that what he did was wrong and inappropriate. As it is impossible to legislate morality, society has no way to force or to accurately judge contrition nor sincerity, but demanding that the offender at least go thru the motions is a minimum expectation. I think the resolution was appropriate and necessary. Just because a convicted criminal apologizes to his victim, doesn't mean that he isn't still subject to be sentenced up to the full extent of the legal penalty. The first may influence the latter, but does not negate it.

Lumping Serena Williams, Kanye West, and Joe Wilson together poses some problems. Serena Williams and Kanye West can't have any affect on my life. Joe Wilson can, unfortunately. The fact that Joe Wilson (or the other two) can't properly apologize doesn't really change the outcome of what they did. Their behavior still reveals who the are and what they're about. After health care reform is passed, Joe Wilson won't have any choice but to shut up. That's when it will become clear that neither his outburst, nor his inability to confront his own behavior, don't make any difference. Much like Wilson himself.

The thoughtful article and almost all of the comments fail to note the reason for civility, decorum and conformance to the rules of the House. When the President addresses a Joint Session of Congress, he is there as the Head of State. The House and Senate are there as the representation of the Nation both its people and its constituent states. The offense was not to Obama, it was literally to the Nation and the Congress. Over the last 150 years, the rules of the House and Senate developed to provide for control of conflict and promote civil exchanges of views. It was not always that way. In 1856, another South Carolina Congressman took offense at another's views. He attacked Sen. Charles Sumner in the Senate Chamber with a cane and nearly killed him. Cong. Wilson does not seem to understand that what he did was wrong. He also does not understand that what he did was not a personal affront to Obama, it was an attack on the basic structures created by our Constitution. He needs to be educated and understand that he is not following in a proud tradition but is actually harming our most important institutions.

I'm suprized Williams didn't say that the line judge was using race against her-it seems that everytime something no matter what happens to a black they play the racial card as did Gates,the policeman should be given a metal for doing his job

Left out of the discussion is the case of Dr. Henry Louis Gates, of Harvard and of recent fame. "Skip" Gates, when push came to push, played the race card. Appalling. Gates is revered by white, black and in between for his scholarship and intelligence. He owes an apology to the policeman first, then to the Harvard community, then to the President and country. But most of all, he owes an apology to the African-American community for cheapening the issue of racism in American. But Skip, I have heard from faculty members, doesn't apologize to anyone.
Anyone with half a (practical) brain knows that that was a very high stress situation for all involved and to keep it cool.

This is a great opinion piece on this debate of civility (or lack thereof) in our culture. I am not American and thus did not grow up with this sense of entitlement. Where I am from, there is little freedom of speech and harsh/rude public criticism often comes with dire consequences (jail time or worse).

I have always applauded and admired America's acceptance of giving voice to the voiceless. But recently, with the increasing violence and rude, uncivilized behavior at the healthcare townhall meetings and then Kanye, Joe and Serena, I can't help but wonder-- has this sense of security of knowing there will be little to no consequence for what comes out of one's mouth,has this created a culture of no consequences?

http://www.newsy.com/videos/what_happened_to_public_civility

Let's see...found in sermons, talk radio, and TV talking heads. Hmmm, tough to figure this one out...could it be CONSERVATIVES AND RIGHT WINGERS??????

They are what they are.

I applaud Rabbi Hirschfield's plea for civility, and I agree that rampant narcissism in our society is part of the problem. (I make this argument in my recent blog on the Psychcentral website: http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2009/09/16/have-we-become-a-nation-of-narcissists/).

When we add societal narcissism to our nation's history of racism and deep ideological divisions; then sprinkle in the "instant flame" capability of anonymous bloggers and tweeters, etc, we have set ourselves up for the "perfect storm" of uncivil discourse.

What is the antidote? Here is what the monk, Thomas a Kempis said; if only we could all take it to heart:

"There is no man without his faults, none without his burden. None is sufficient in himself; none is wise in himself; therefore we must support one another, comfort, help, teach, and advise one another." [Counsels on the Spiritual Life]

Ronald Pies MD

I agree totally. This has nothing to do with if any of the mentioned three people had a just cause or circumstances that could excuse them (personally, I don't think so). This is about the public room being kept a civil place for all - which is an important basis for democracy.

That's why you don't interrupt the president with an accusation - you wait until you have the floor, and then you explain in a civil manner why you think he is not accurate, if you do. That's why you don't grab the microphone from an award winner, you wait for a moment that is yours to vent your opinion. And that's why you behave on a tennis court, to let people freely do their job well or bad.

If you don't, you compromise the integrity and rightful place of everyone else in the situation. And those three haven't got that.

Um, Serena did apologize, complete with admitting she was wrong, that it wasn't good behavior for her or for young athletes, and then she did shut up!

The Rabbi is right.

Personally, I've had no qualms about being uncivil towards the haters.

ZebZ and somali,

Take your pick, one of you is the product of an unwed mother, the other is the southbound end of a north bound horse.

I also completely agree with you, Rabbi Hirschfield, and think that you explained it perfectly.

ROHITCUNY, perhaps you ought to read the column again as you may have missed the point regarding all of the offenders.

BREAKING: Obama vetted Kanye prior to “Jackass” appointment!

http://concretelyambiguous.com/a-shot-of-humor/breaking-kanye-was-vetted-prior-to-his-appointment-to-jackass/

Brad Hirschfield's comments on West, Williams and Wilson follow the pattern of all the other MSM talking heads which is othing more than grinding water. The MSM talking heads need to keep the Wilson ball bouncing in the Political Arena. The other balls in sports and entertainment will in fact enhance the draw and media focus the next time they step on the stage. The three have little in common other that a lack of civility. Disturbing as it is both may have been correct in the reason for their outburts.

America has a sick-o "love affair" with the FANTASY OF TOUGHNESS. Plus too many are madly in love with SENSATIONALISM.

Refusal to apologize, displaying stupid, petulant, uncivil or otherwise crappy behavior
= INSTANT FREE MEDIA PUBLICITY!

What MEDIA SENSATION WANNABE is going to
pass that up?

ANY publicity is considered "good". Bad publicity doesn't = shame. It's FAME! ! !
wheeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!! instant stardom!

SPELL THAT STAR-DUMB. And that's what we really are. Dumbfounded gawkers, rubberneckers of star-dumb and constantly "being had" by the media machine and its corrupters.

Serena Willams may have been acting under some type of duress. The tournament fell on/around the anniversary of the death of a sister a few years back. Kanye West is reported to have been walking around the awards ceremony with a bottle of whiskey in his hands. He may have been drunk.
Wilson, I have no defense for him - and he is the only one of the three who vehemently refused to apologize.
Kanye and Serena know they have to work to earn money and respect and in my opinion are demonstrating a moral decency to apologize.
When your position and finances are a given, meaning you didn't really have to work for any thing, and your coffers grow when you do wrong, and you don't apologize; it reflects a sense of entitlement.

Hey . . .just want to underscore Pastor_ Bill's comment, i.e., "I completely agree with you. This is one of the best discussions of civility in our public discourse that I have read."

Look all around you. What is featured as an essential element of our society? Outrageous, over the top behavior. In the "old days," we had concepts of "shame," "decorum," "manners," "self discipline," etc. The sixties gave us an assault on those values, and the assault continues to this day. People are "too uptight," "how dare you judge me?" Gay marriage? No problem. Polygamy, bestiality, all manner of sexual perversions can be found with one click of Google. Discipline increasingly undisplined children in school? How dare you!! I will sue you and the school board!!

Have no discernable talent and slept through high school? Get on a reality TV show and make your fortune. Just don't forget that no act is too degrading, no insult too outlandish, no statement of any kind out of bounds. Go for it!!

Let's legalize marijuana, because its just too hard to keep people from smoking it. Hey, George Soros says let's legalize all drugs! The society is sorely in need of even more people with altered mental states. We don't have enough already.

We could have a civil society if we really wanted one. But apparently we don't.

Wilson had a cause for righteous anger. The Prez, and many in Congress and in the media have lied or told severe distortions of the truth since the beginning of this debate (so has the other side). For instance anyone who says that a public option that adopts Medicare rates, as the one in HR 3200 does, will do anything but tear down the private industry is either lying or not competent to comment on the issue. Barack is a bright guy and he has no shortage of intelligence and expertize at his finger tips; so I'm going with lying on his part. Wilson has every right to feel outrage and to call the elected leader of this country out on it. His behavior was not civil, but where is it written that decorum is more important than honest service?

Williams and West on the other hand had nothing more than personal indignation they were fuming over. Their anger was not righteous but self righteous. It just showed how small they were. There are no root similarities between Wilson on the one hand and Williams/West on the other.

Serena Willams may have been acting under some type of duress. The tournament fell on/around the anniversary of the death of a sister a few years back. Kanye West is reported to have been walking around the awards ceremony with a bottle of whiskey in his hands. He may have been drunk.
Wilson, I have no defense for him - and he is the only one of the three who vehemently refused to apologize.
Kanye and Serena know they have to work to earn money and respect and in my opinion are demonstrating a moral decency to apologize.
When your position and finances are a given, meaning you didn't really have to work for any thing, and your coffers grow when you do wrong, and you don't apologize; it reflects a sense of entitlement.

It is truly amazing how people justify the rude behavior of Joe Wilson, the pastor who stated that he hated President Obama, and all the other remarks toward the President since he has been in office. These individuals represent this type of hatred and discourse is a true representation of just how far as Americans we have not come. Bottom line no one would have ever disrespected President Obama if he was white. Throughout history, the Presidents have not always been on point and had misrepresented information intentionally or unintentionally but this type of behavior is only exhibited when it is a Democratic in power. Just like when President Clinton was in office he was oust by every Republican from the pulpit, senate, house, etc. Now look how the script has been rewritten now you have the same people who talked about him are doing much worse judges raping women, senator having affairs, senators/congressman soliciting for sex from kids, etc., priest/clergymen/ pastors molesting.

The way people are disrespecting President Obama is based on their fears. People fear what they don't understand. Yes, other ethic groups are just as intelligent and capable of performing job in which for decades was unattainable. Who would have thought a person of color would be the leading our country or other ethic groups filling vacancies - not Joe Wilson and other like him. So people abuse their position and incite hatred in younger groups and create fear with the elderly, and plant the seed of racism in the children encouraging kids to still hate a person based on the color of his/her skin.

How many times have a person taken a loaded gun to a Republicans Rally? Why do you think other county don't respect us anymore.

All of you continue to lie to yourself and justify the hatred of these people. Racism will continue because the truth is being rejected. If you ignore the truth then you are not obligated to take a stand for what is right and to accept the truth means you must first example yourself - TAKE A LOOK AT WOMAN/MAN IN THE MIRROR.

Why Brad Hirschfield is a moron by J Davis

Serena Williams publically and unequivocally DID apologize for her behavior on national television (I saw it).

But white man Hirschfield just has to make it seem like Wilson's represensible behavior is the same as Williams' because Hirschfield does not want his white friend Wilson to own up to that behavior; that might make white people think that black people are better than white people...and we can't have that comparison.

And Wilson is a US representative, not a jock, so his behavior is even more reprehensible.

There is no excuse for rudeness! In any instance, rudeness and belligerence is not acceptable. We are becoming a society of narcissism and rudeness, belligerence is being tolerated more and more, however, that does not make it acceptable. Yes, we all have the right to “Free Speech,” but that doesn’t mean that we cannot be polite and considerate when we do so. Insofar as the release of the “off the record” remark on Twitter, that is unacceptable. Anyone in the media or elsewhere should bear the responsibility of their actions and releases. We have different methods of disseminating information; however, we still must be responsible about what we are putting out there by checking our sources and not giving knee-jerk responses…especially those connected in any way with the media. Freedom of Speech is not a cart-blanche “be rude and put any whim in writing that may only have a small element of truth.” We ALL need to take responsibility of our own actions.

Please check your facts. Kanye said he was "just rude" and acknowledged that he hurt someone on his Leno visit Maybe you should take a moment to listen before you rush headlong into an inaccurate article.

What we all must remember is that unlike you and me, the more common Americans, megastars such as Kanye West are surrounded by publicists who tell them how to act and what to say. When you examine almost any case of a celebrity thrashing out, they almost ALWAYS issue an apology afterwards. It is all about busniess, money, and image. A publicist cannot reverse what Kanye has said, but he or she can most definitely make sure he apologizes. While it may be upsetting that we live in a world where the validity of apologies is questioned, it is the reality.

I think the "all about me" mentality comes from teaching our children that their own feelings are of prime importance and thus deemphasizing the feelings of others. The phrase "consideration for others" never seems to be used any more. Disrespect is rampant, both upwards and downwards, and can always find a justification. "I was just saying."

My spelling was off, due to the fact that I could not at the time locate my eye glasse's, I am sure that you get the point.

I, for one, and I am sure that their are many people feel the same as I Do, that the only reasin for people to apologize, it that they are pressured into doing so,
becauce of their image/position that they have to keep.

ChooseBestCandidate wrote: "2. how do you equate Wilson's emotional response to a known lie with West's rude, too-much-alcholol-intake?"

A "known lie". Can you prove that? I think you'll find it hard considering the legislation explicitly states illegals will not be covered. And Wilson's response being emotive is questionable considering he had in his hands an advanced copy of the speech. What Obama said did not come as a surprise to him.

ChooseBestCandidate wrote: "3. why wont they apologize you say. where have you been? Serena apologized the same night and the da after and te day after that at her doubles. Wilson immediately apologized."

Wilson admits he apologized to Emmanuel after leading republicans in the House told him to. He never apologized to the House whose rule he broke. Sorta like someone at a party at your house calling someone you invited a "liar", then refusing to apologize to you. I guess that behavior is ok with you as long as it scores political points in your favor, but many of us are tired of the rudeness of conservatives in the House, at teaparties, at town meetings, bringing guns to Obama speeches, etc. If you think this is the behavior of civil people you don't know what civility is but explains the slow losing pattern of the republican party on its slow march into obscurity.

sbegat wrote: "Why not include President Obama's insult of a working white policeman. I believe the adjective was "stupid." The Obama "apology," such as it was, focused entirely on the messiah himself. "maybe I should have..." (the focus on the pronoun "I" is a clue that these remarks were about himself)"

What Obama did was have the two men to the White House for a beer, talking with both, treating both with respect.

When do you expect Wilson to invite Obama over for a beer. He hasn't actually apologized to him yet, just to Emmanuel. He also never apologized to the House or the American people. Having Obama over for a beer would be a great way to reduce tensions over this, show himself as a man of some honor and civility. That's why I never expect Wilson to show what he would consider weakness and capitulation. Such is the nature of the 21st century republican conservative and why they will never regain power in this nation unless they start acting less like middle schoolers and more like statesmen.

Kanye and Serena don't matter. Who cares what they do. As for Wilson, he should be made to pay for his nasty behavior. Spank him good.

WWHEN and which one of you have the guts to come forward and state these accusations of leveling "racism" as answer to criticism about obama is wrong?

in my opinion this article is embarrassingly flawed. seems like an obama-enabler.

1. these three incidents couldnt be more different.

2. how do you equate Wilson's emotional response to a known lie with West's rude, too-much-alcholol-intake?

3. why wont they apologize you say. where have you been? Serena apologized the same night and the da after and te day after that at her doubles. Wilson immediately apologized.

4.WHEN WILL OBAMA APOLOGIZE FOR CALLING PALIN A LIAR IN HIS 'PREPARED' NOTES? obama had the time to consider what he was about to do.

5. under the Title of FAITH, when are you going to begin being honest?

12191946 wrote: "How will this play out if Joe Wilson is right, and the covered Health Plan does cover illegal immigrants? I find it hard to believe that they won't be covered somewhere."

Well here's the thing, hospitals treat illegals in the ER and it is perfectly legal AND the government actually pays hospitals for this through "Emergency Medicaid". And guess what? Wilson voted for the Emergency Medicaid legislation in 2003 and currently there is a bipartisan bill to continue it.

How can this be you probably ask? How can Wilson vote for a bill explicitly giving hospitals funds to treat illegals and at the same time go nuclear about illegals being covered in this bill, which explicitly states they will not be covered? Well, its politics. The truth is once again a victim of the need to feed the hate of political constituents.

Another issue is Wilson's own use of government health care. Most of his family is covered by government health care, himself by the Congressional plan, others by Medicare and still others by Tricare, the DOD's health plan. Yet he talks about the evils of government run health care. Yet today he has been given over $1.5M and his collegues support his rule breaking by not voting to repremand him for breaking the House rule. So it will not play out that Joe Wilson is right. He is not only wrong, he is obnoixious, uncivil, and he is a hypocrit.

How will this play out if Joe Wilson is right, and the covered Health Plan does cover illegal immigrants? I find it hard to believe that they won't be covered somewhere. I also find that the playing of the "race card," that any disagreement with Obama is somehow race related, to be a poor use of rhetoric. Wilson diagrees with the President's policies, based on those policies, and the vision of the person making them. Any increase in medical use is going to result in increased costs. Examine the cost of medicine post-Medicare. Medical costs are high. I just had emergency surgery. I am surprised at the number of bills I am getting. I have no objection to what the surgeon charges, but I have bills for consultations I didn't request that run to $500 for about 20 minutes (or less) of conversation.
I have not read the current set of proposals, but getting the IRS involved, or making a law that would require the un-employed to buy coverage rubs me the wrong way.

Why not include President Obama's insult of a working white policeman. I believe the adjective was "stupid."
The Obama "apology," such as it was, focused entirely on the messiah himself.
"maybe I should have..." (the focus on the pronoun "I" is a clue that these remarks were about himself)

The Religious community has no credibility on this issue. Not when Pastors are PRAYING for the Presidents death and more moderate ministers have said nothing to repudiate such perversity of faith. Was he or was he not correct in his claim about the Presidents health initiative? Who are the Son's of the Confederacy and what do they represent? I was surprised no one on the Republican side of the isle didn't bat an eye when Mr. Wilson shouted out. Was it planned? President Bush got elected on scrubbing the White House clean. What ever happened to the Hallowed Halls of Congress?

Fred Astaire's comments on civility were indeed prophetic when he feared for future generations because there was no one to teach them manners.

It is truly amazing how people justify the rude behavior of Joe Wilson, the pastor who stated that he hated President Obama, and all the other remarks toward the President since he has been in office. These individuals represent this type of hatred and discourse is a true representation of just how far as Americans we have not come. Bottom line no one would have ever disrespected President Obama if he was white. Throughout history, the Presidents have not always been on point and had misrepresented information intentionally or unintentionally but this type of behavior is only exhibited when it is a Democratic in power. Just like when President Clinton was in office he was oust by every Republican from the pulpit, senate, house, etc. Now look how the script has been rewritten now you have the same people who talked about him are doing much worse judges raping women, senator having affairs, senators/congressman soliciting for sex from kids, etc., priest/clergymen/ pastors molesting kids.

The way people are disrespecting President Obama is based on their fears. People fear what they don't understand. Yes, other ethic groups are just as intelligent and capable of performing job in which from the beging of time was thought to be unattainable. Who would have thought a person of color would be leading our country or other ethic groups filling vacancies once only held by whites- not Joe Wilson and other like him. So people abuse their position and incite hatred in younger groups and create fear with the elderly, and plant the seed of racism in the children encouraging kids to still hate a person based on the color of his/her skin.

How many times have a person taken a loaded gun to a Republicans Rally? Why do you think other county don't respect us anymore?

All of you continue to lie to yourself and justify the hatred of these people. Racism will continue because the truth is being rejected. If you ignore the truth then you are not obligated to take a stand for what is right and to accept the truth means you must first example yourself - TAKE A LOOK AT WOMAN/MAN IN THE MIRROR.

I think part of the problem is that everyone now thinks their opinion matters. Blogs, newspapers, and virtually everyone else seeks input, comments and feedback. So we all have an opinion - often a sharply worded one - for virtually every situation. A principal closes school due to snow. We blast him or her. We disagree with someone's political point of view - we yell and scream. Everyone is so opinionated, that it all just turns into noise. And yes, I see the irony of making this point about not making points! :) At some point, many of use need to learn this phrase: I really don't know enough about this to comment.

Will the Republican laxity toward Wilson shift to rigidity toward Democrats should Sarah Palin gain the White House in 4, 8, or 12 years? Or will Democrats be allowed to call President Palin ugly, libelous names in the middle of her speeches? I salivate to think of the latter. That will be wonderful television.

And lets not forget Bush who should be at the top of the list. He followed Rove's notion that apologies or accepting responsibility for mistakes is a sign of weakness the president cannot afford. But this is not a black/white issue, not a liberal/conservative issue. The US has been moving toward increased incivility for decades in almost every sector of society. Not sure why this is so, but it has happened.

And though I thought a few years ago it was turning around, Kayne and Wilson proved me wrong. No one is organizing a boycott of his albums, which would have happened 50 years ago. Wilson reaped 1.5 million for his rudeness. 50 years ago he would have been censured by 100% of the House and voters would be turned off.

If things are going to change our society needs to agree they must change. It doesn't have to be some polical movement or spiritual movement. People, individuals, on their own can decide they will be civil and demand civility. One person can start a boycott, one person can send a letter of complaint to Joe Wilson, one person can make a stand. The majority of people are looking for direction and usually people pick civility, they just need someone to stand up for it and not accept it when it happens. Today the republicans are supporting Wilson, Serena's backers are still behind her, Kayne's record company has not considered dropping him and people are still buying his records.

If no one cares the incivility will continue. But if even a small number will not stand for it a revolution in civility could happen. Its up to the young, for they will live in whatever society comes from our reactions to overt incivility. Kayne, Wilson and Serena acted as they did because they knew nothing would come from their incivility. If we want it to stop there must be a negative societal reaction to such behavior, and not just from columns in a newspaper.

Some ideas:
-Boycott Serena sponsors
-Stop buying Kayne West music and consider not buying music from the record label which publishes his music.
-Support Wilson's rival or at least don't send him money and demand from your rep that Wilson be admonished.
If the reaction doesn't sting then it will only encourage more incivility. Wilson actually making money off his incivility is not a good sign as it shows society rewards incivility. How many think we'll hear more outbursts in Congress as Wilson's collegues see his $1.5M warchest that they do not have because they remained civil?

Perhaps what Congressman Wilson said was rude. It certainly was inappropriate. However, it was necessary to members of his body politic and it was effective.

Were we to cut through the political chaff, we would see that President Obama has been good at the use of the style of rhetoric - to move to action - but not the facts which are necessary for good rhetoric to act. This does not mean that the President is acting falsely, but in his hurry to act, he is leaving the impression of being a snake-oil salesman, trying to sell his product before the locals realize the nostrum is no good.

Perhaps we would do well in this country were we to adopt the practice of Great Britain and Canada and have Question Time in Congress, where members of the Administration and perhaps the President would answer questions. In turn, the Congressmen would do well to adopt the real style of town-hall meetings, and take questions off the floor.

No one is thinking in American politics anymore. Everyone has a preconceived view of the world and doesn't let facts get in the way. President Obama's speech demonstrated this; so did Congressman Wilson's response.

Wow, a lot of really ingnorant people commented on this article. I'm amazed how many of you do not get the Rabbi's point, and it has NOTHING to do with religion, civilty is religion free.

Ummm - Serena didn't apologize. Her PR company did the spin control.
Get your facts right Serena supporter.
Would she have acted that way to another black person? nah. Who's the racist now.

To DBlakeross(9:34am),

My congratulations, Mr DBlakeross. You certainly have contributed handsomely to the article's main point with your "monkey-ass" comment regarding my person. I'm certain that most readers will not believe such an inane comment could come from a "liberal", but we have here in black and white(no racial pun intended). Not being one to shun a challenge, shall we ready the pistols sir?

Civility or the lack there of is a growing problem. These events were truly shocking and a sad indication of how some of our society acts.

But what I wish the media would do would be to emphasize the positive. Emphasize how wise and poised beyond her years Talor Swift was in her response to Kanye. Emphasize how magnificently Beyonce behaved knowing that she had the power to rectify an injustice in some way. Emphasize how well the president handled what would make most of us livid with anger.

Give them publicity for this rather than acting badly. If it's all about you, then any PR is good PR.

Regarding Serena, I think this is an exception. She generally has done good things for her sport and for her community. She doesn't have a history of out of control, offensive behavoir. Grant her the opportunity to learn from a mistake. Judge her only if this proves to be a pattern.

Bottom line: If it was standard procedure to call a President a liar every time he lied, there would still be a three year waiting list to finish off the "You lie!" statements to George W.Bush ('Mission Accomplished', anyone?), and every Congressman in America would still be hoarse from the 5,476,328 times they called him out during his reign of terror. You'd have heard 'You lie!' every time Clinton gave a speech. And Reagan, Carter, Nixon, etc. etc. etc.
That's something every American older than 12 can probably agree with, and it's precisely why Joe Wilson is a tool.
It ain't standard procedure, it's rude, disrespectful, and totally unjustifiable by anyone who has a lick of reason.
This lesson in basic American History is over. Please return to getting me fries with that and pumping my gas, South Carolina.

This is called a "diversion".

While we talk about this subject, we are wasting time/money in congress.

This issue ranks far out of the top 10 on my list in terms of importance to our country.

Yet.. it's on the front page for all the lemmings.

This article is crap.

Kanye did apologize to Swift on television and privately. His behavior before that was inexcusable. He showed remorse for his actions.

Williams also apologized publicly and privately to the line judge--with no equivocation. She acknowledged that she did not behave like a role model and that her behavior was inexcusable. She showed remorse for her actions.

Wilson is not sorry. He has lied about his "apology." (Calling Rahm Emanuel is not the same as apologizing directly to the President and to colleagues in the House for his inexcusable and drunken breach of protocol.) He has also raised millions of dollars from the "Hee Haw" gang in his party.

He has no remorse for his actions and he continues to capitalize on them by waving the flames of hatred among the haters in his group.

Comparing the first two people to this cretin makes no sense.

That is why this article is ridiculous. It is based on a faulty premise and it does not accurately portray what each of three people have done in response to their outbursts.

Thoughtcatalyst, et al:
As a middle-class whiteboy, I would be flippin' LIVID if a cop attempted to force me out of my own house, or his way into it without a warrant. And although we'll never really know how it went down, it seems to me the cop was stupid, in an "I'm the cop, you'll do it my way" sort of way.
Read your badge, dummy. "Protect and Serve". That's it. SERVE. How does dragging me forcibly out of my house that is not on fire protect or serve me?
I believe that for most people claiming here that a Harvard professor somehow mistreated a cop, their opinion would change if cops kicked in their door and dragged them out without warrant or permission. Particularly if it was a black cop.
Any nitwit here asking for Obama to apologize for his remark is out of line, since for all THEY ACTUALLY KNOW, the cop may have acted stupidly. Point is, they DON'T know.
Conversely, I ACTUALLY DO KNOW that Joe Wilson shot his racist mouth off during a Presidential address. And he sure as heck owes me and every other American an apology.
As for the disingenuous here who persist in their STUPID and WRONG assertion that Obama is lying about illegals getting coverage, the bill CLEARLY prohibits that. Yes, systems were made to be gamed, and laws to be broken, but if you think I should have to produce a birth certificate in order to get treated after a car wreck, you are an idiot. And plenty of illegals get healthcare right now, every day.
Kanye and Serena are entirely different, because I don't care what celebrities do. When they have control of my healthcare's future, I'll worry about their foolish behavior. Meantime, I'll continue not to watch them, buy whatever they're selling, or care about what celebrity made what other celebrity cry.
Remember, all you, "I ain't no racist" racists, Strom Thurmond, the biggest racist in history, had a child with a black woman, which Joe considered to be a 'smear' rather than a 'fact'. So forgive me if I don't take a clear racist like Joe Wilson's stilted, bumbling, and caveat-ridden apology seriously.
And, hey, you Joe Wilson supporters...remember, if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and swims like a duck, it's still only a duck if it suits your pathetic assertions.

If Serena was white, she would not have been kicked out.

Americans can not act natural arround each other. If they are not happy or if they are happy, they have to smile and pump their chest and deepen their voice and say it like its all rosie. Unless, we have a cry baby Kanye West, who just want icecream and best toy cars for himself.

If I ever leave this country, I will miss our fake smiles.

This is truly the dilemna of our time. I think that the answer to rudeness lies in our culture. From television (reality shows) radio ( extreme talk hosts) and movies (most everything rated R or worse) to the way our news is reported (both on air and print)every sensational story is hyped to the nth degree. We do not write, report, or make movies about people who live their lives well and with in the rules of society. We like the outlaw, the crass businessman, the ones who do whatever their hearts desire. What are our children supposed to learn? Parents(most) guide their children to one sort of behavior and then are daily countermanded by the media as to what is appropriate behavior. I tell my children that is inappropriate behavior to speak rudely to others and then they hear Stern on radio, see a journalist push Madoff in their desire to get a picture, watch television shows (most reality) that seem to reward poor behavior. It has taken us 30 years to get here and will take as long to get back.

Comments so right on target. Remember when Dan rather mercilessly hounded Nixon, (and I am no fan of Nixon) and Nixon replied "If you have no respect for the man, please at least have respect for the office of the Presidency". One of the few things Nixon said I agree with. Sadly, we are declining as a society because the concept of role models, decency and respectability have been trashed by these self centered folks who believe it's their world and the rest of us are just passing through. Wonderful opinion piece!

Although these are all examples of the deterioration of civility, I don't think you can lump them together.

Serena is an athlete who had an inappropriate outburst in the heat of a match. To me, this is really not an issue.

Kanye is a publicity seeking cretin who is more known for his antics than any contribution to music. If he didn't pull these stunts he would sink into the obscurity that he complete lack of talent deserves. If he REALLY had any talent, he wouldn't need to resort to this type of behavior to get publicity.

Joe Wilson is the most serious offender, in my opinion. He and the rest of the moronic Republicans are making it harder for those that WANT to foster bipartisan cooperation. Joe Wilson and his ilk may say they are patriots, but if they REALLY loved this country, they would work together with Democrats. In reality, they are putting their own interests above the interests of the citizens who elected them. The sooner he and his fellow imbeciles are out of office, the better.

Rabbi,
I hear what you're saying...it's just you've overstated your point. I understand these are public figures with public 'transgressions' (yada-yada), but please don't play the 'debt to society' card. Restitution at this level of offense is largely personal, not to the amorphous 'culture' you mention.
Sure, there are times when at-large satisfaction must be made, as in the example of Jesus Christ. "Now Caiaphas was he, which gave counsel to the Jews, that it was expedient that one man should die for the people."
How quickly people jump on the bloodthirsty bandwagon of mimetic violence. Is the answer to now crucify Wilson, Williams, or West-- or restore them?
Surely Jesus was speaking of one not unlike you: "And why beholdest thou the mote in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"
and
"'The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say and do not. For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay thtem on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, and love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, and greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi. But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren."
Woe unto you, Rabbi, blind guide. Will you heap on or will you restore?

bingham60,
Citation needed for both of these statements, please.

"they are changing it now because of Joe."

"Kanye on the other hand was not only crude by interrupting the awards but also lied about Bush ordering the National Guard to shoot blacks in N.O. which actually was racist."

Posted by: bingham60 | September 16, 2009 9:51 AM

I am less worried about what celebrities are calling other celebrities than my classmate calling me a nobody or my friends engulfed in the rapgangsta culture. I was shocked in my neighborhood when two women used the a word about me and added that I do not act like a brother. I wasn't born in this country and has lived more than 70% of my life outside. To be accepted as their own I need to begin to have at least one of these: backward cap, baggy pants, earring or tattoos. If not the a, the j or the n words are waiting for me. That rap gang behavior is not an exclusivity of some celebrities. It goes way from the congress, tennis stars, rap stars to nobodies in the hood.

There are two things at work here. The first is the drunken buzz people experience when they let self-righteous indignation run amok. It's an emotional rush, a high, and they feel important and powerful. The reality is that such drunken behavior shows disrepect for others as well as a lack of both self respect and integrity. Nobody admires someone who slips the bounds of self-control and such slips are remembered long after the event. That moment will dog Wilson for the rest of his life.

He could recoup some good will with an admission and an apology. Most of us have had moments we regret later and to some extent can emphathize. But to move past it they must repent. That Wilson et al. can't seem to do that is not unusual. That's the second point. To repent is to admit they were wrong and the same self-righteous zeal that prompted the outbursts is also putting pride before integrity.

Nobody likes admitting they were wrong. But what Wilson doesn't recognize is that the public would see him as a much bigger and better man if he had the grace to do so. And now he's let it go too long and can never really recoup the respect he has lost.

On a slighlty different topc - If Joe Wilson is being branded a racist by many because the President is black then shouldn't Serena and Kanye be branded the same? If the same logic applies then Serena hates Asians and Kanye hates young white women. Why is it only white people can hate?

It seems to me, following this line of commentary as well as the daily news across the spectrum, that we are facing a "tragedy of the commons" situation with regard to our civic life. As I understand it, the TofC theory (credit article by Garrett Hardin in 1968) suggests that when we have an unregulated (or unregulatable) common resource, individuals will often act with regard to their own best and usually rational interests in using that resource, causing damage that is borne by all in the longer run. The author uses the example of a common pasture that no one owns but all can graze their animals on. I think that perhaps "free speech," as a common good that we all value and without which our democracy cannot thrive, has met its tragedy. By its very nature, we can regulate it only in a very limited way. It permits us to exchange the varied, opposing and even off-the-wall opinions that are needed in putting together good policy. But those who rely on it as permission and protection for saying whatever they please, no matter if knowingly untrue or vitriolic, gain its benefits without regard for the potential damage to our community and our public discourse.

No, I am NOT advocating government reins on free speech - that would be surrendur before the war is lost. But I would like to figure out how you get individuals to recognize that they have to rein themselves in, so that we can begin to rebuild the trust needed to continue and strengthen a democratic society.

Actually, Serena made a very nice apology. She even apologized that her behavior was a bad example to young [people. It would have been nice to have heard the same sort of thing from Wilson.

Why? Because being an arsehole shows that you care and are a leader of the people!

Why would you expect deferential or even respectful treatment when, since the late '60s, we have been raising our children from birth to believe that they are entitled to anything they want, do nothing wrong, are not responsible or accountable for their actions and that money solves all problems.
So in that environment, when do they learn to respect position, title, opposing ideas, concepts or ideology?

"Stars" without class should be removed from the sky. Self-esteem beyond self-borders should be viewed as self-destructive.

What about Pres. Obama? Did did not appologise for his outburst of hate toward white during Prof. Gates case.

Very well written piece. And yes, it's sad. It seems part of the "famous for being famous" culture, as if someone would rather be known as boorish and unprofessional than miss a day of press.

Can we have some peace?
I read many of the comments, and it seems while the bloggers are discussing the people in question they themselves are angry.

Is America perfect, no because people are not perfect and never will be.

Can individuals in the public domain conduct themselves better, yes however, they too are not perfect.

Lets concentrate on ourselves before passing judgement on others. Ask Jesus to come into your life and show "you" how to be a better person. Then racism, hatred, outburst, perverted behavior will diminish and more peace will abound.

Right now our families and neighbors need our help not condemnation. Is there someone you can help today? Then do that and move forward. "For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds."

America is in dire need of love and peace, so that we can get through these tough economic times. Our youth are morally bankrupt because "we the people" have lost any direction that is base on truth and justice.

For all those commenting about UCMJ, there are about five reasons why it is not applicable in this case- too much legal talk to go into here, but he is NOT subject to UCMJ for his actions. Now, if he had done this while in a reserve or active status, that would be different. Also, on a more theoretical note, would this mean that any member of the military cannot question the president's politics? I think you might have about 500,000 UCMJ cases if that was true. Again, the UCMJ thing is an incredible reach and not even a possibility.

Furthermore, good thing guys like Sam Adams, Thomas Paine, and Patrick Henry didn't yell in the courtroom at British officials.... look where it got them! Oh yea, a new, democratic, free, and independent nation.

Government controlling healthcare, companies (GM, AIG, etc)... what's next? Let's not hide from it, it's called SOCIALSIM, and we are spiraling into it quickly.

People's motivations are often not so easy to discern, though cheap explanations are very easy to produce. Much too much time is devoted to divining motivations.
Leaving these individual personalities aside, the lack of civility in our society, which I believe has increased (though I may be wrong), is complex and probably due to multiple factors. Two factors I think may be important are the state of mass media and the state of the economy. There is a race to the bottom in the mass media in a search for maximizing profits. The mass media, radio-TV-movies-magazines, hold up a mirror to reflect our society back to each one of us. When there is a focus on incivility, such behavior, and the values promulgated by the media, operate as a guideline for many people. Call it the Jerry Springerization of our media. Say goodbye to Jerry Mathers.
Secondly, the rise of competitive pressures on America, and the growing insecurity introduced into many peoples lives, stokes negative emotions and incivility. Just one view.

The explanation? We have become a nation of four-year-olds, demanding instant gratification, unable to suppress our reactions to events we don't like, or to save our responses for a more appropriate time and place. West could have saved his opinion for his blog later; Wilson could have given interviews or held a press conference after the speech. But no, go ahead and have a public tantrum, throw away all sense of decorum; it IS all about me me me.

How we got here: I think many factors are to blame - "new" parenting systems in which children are never wrong, and self-esteem must never be threatened (oddly, resulting in lower self-esteem, but a huge selfishness); addiction to electronic media, contributing to an incredibly short attention span and the need for instant gratification (see the epidemic of people texting absent friends and ignoring the ones right in front of them); a serious decline in the promotion of civic duty and contributions to society - we even litter more than we did 30 years ago. We live at breakneck speed, constantly distracted, thinking only of ourselves and our own little circles and heedless of anything else, and snapping and bristling at anyone who impedes our discombobulation for one nanosecond. What a way to go through life.

Can we get some adults to take this situation in hand?

Hey stupids:

First of all, there are millions of illegal immigrants, they are here because they are filling an important economic role in society, and they deserve healthcare just like other humans. Also, I believe they can get sick and infect others just the same as citizens. So, I have no problem if some of my tax dollars go to this. We have spent over a trillion dollars on wars that a large percentage of the population do not support, and that money was spent primarily to kill people. So, now we might possibly spend a little money to help people and it gets you rightwingers riled up? You on the right are really, truly, despicable human beings. Why don't you think about that for a while?
Second, "liberals" have been responsible for all the useful progress this country has ever made. If not for liberalism 99% of us would still be subsistence farmers probably.

Apologies were given in all aspects of the incidents. They were accepted by all who were insulted or involved for that matter. Joe...hollered out and made a statement and he has apologized. Kanye took the spotlight and made a statement and he has apologized. Serena...showed anger in reaction to "call" and she has apologized.

But I will say this would this have been an issue if it was Joe hollering at Hillary if she was President (I don't think so) Would this have been all of a helluva if Kanye would have went onstage and took the microphone from Beyonce' (please, it would have been a no never mind)... Gimme a break if Serena was playing her sister and the judge would have happened to been black (the tennis world would have gawked only).

Again when it is a black on black crime or white on white incidents it becomes a convenient look away moment. But let the victims be of one race and all of sudden it is newsworthy.

In my humble opinion... accepting belligerent speech in a public forum started with Rush Limbaugh. Just look at his buddies over at Fox news. Speaking and acting with belligerence is expected. Hannity, O'Riley and the latest sensation... Beck are the epitome of it. Before Fox there was great civility in broadcasting personalities like- Dan Rather, Ted Koppel, Peter Jennings, Walter Cronkite, Jim Lehrer, etc.

It's sad that when we put on the T.V. there is so much anger. Can you imagine the founding fathers arguing in such a manner? We have strayed so far from the age of civility which set this democracy in motion.

And if being self-centered is such a bad thing, why is this plastered next to your smiling mug?

"Rabbi, President of the National Jewish Center for Learning and Leadership, Brad Hirschfield, Named as one of the nation’s 50 most influential rabbis in Newsweek, and one of the top 30 'Preachers and Teachers' by Beliefnet.com."

Yes...there is certainly a protocol that must necessarily be followed in the relationship between the president and congress. The truth of the matter is that an estimated 6.6 million immigrants will likely participate in the health care program initially with more to follow. Key portions of the legislation was purposely voted out that would have caused for verification of immigrant status. 4.3 billion dollars or 10 percent of all government costs for treating the uninsured are paid for immigrants. Obama is a speech maker or perhaps more a speech deliverer. How many millions of people would have heard that speech and believed what he had to say without question? At what point do we as citizens and officials have a responsibility to challenge such comments? How many more trillions of dollars will we provide for recovery before we have a "right" to question where the money has been spent? Does the president have the right to go before the people and the world and make such outrageous comments unchallenged? I think not. Perhaps the challenge could have been made in a different way but the criticism needed to be made none the less. Talk is cheap. Reality is far more expensive.

An excellent blog post. This is one of the reasons why I left the U.S. for a more civilized, interference-free life in Asia. When I read this I suddenly had a more profound appreciation for cultures that emphasize respect, honor and decency. It is always a source of embarrasment when some American/European has a coniption fit over a mistake in a food order or movie ticket and starts screaming at the nearest target. I feel ashamed of my own nationality and culture.

I cannot, for the life of me, imagine why any of these people assume that they have anything important or useful to say. Loud, obnoxious, drunken, narcissistic Americans are the scourge of our culture; they are a national embarrasment and a source of tension in countries around the world. It's amazing that these people are televised so that they can SEE THEMSELVES and they still, somehow, feel justified. In a perfect world, Wilson and company would have mute buttons on their foreheads.

This is ridiculous. Thank you, Rabbi, for telling us that Kanye was wrong. Without religion how would all 300 million people in America have figured out that Kanye is a "jackass," to quote the president?

The only thing, and the most serious thing, that Kanye did wrong in this situation is hurt Taylor Swift's feelings. There is nothing more or less than that. So his apology addressed that issue head on, and, therefore, was a real apology. There is nothing wrong with a celebrity like Taylor Swift enjoying the attention she has worked so hard to earn.

Although, thanks to the certainty of your religious beliefs, you believe that you alone can dictate the form of a sufficient apology and the proper offense to be taken at "bad" actions. This is why I have left religion behind, because of morally pompous "jackasses" who believe their religion allows them to tell everyone else how to feel, live, and act.

Terrorfied,

Bravo! Your post at 9:41 is 100% correct. Our society is crumbling from within and the majority of it can be linked to the naked pursuit of profits. It's all about me, me, me, me. Look at sports, entertainment, and politics as prime examples of this although it has crept into all of society. Money and stature have become our Gods and it is way past ugly, it makes me wince every time these public figures invoke God. What a sad joke it all has become.

It is a telling moment when we see the fabric of our great nation being torn apart at the seams. The most pressing challenge of our times isn't economics, health care, war, or the omnipresent conservative vs. liberal smokescreen.

Where our nation must regain its standard is in the areas of mutual respect and civil discourse. We can't (and won't) ever be a robotic group-think nation. Therefore, the ability to express ourselves openly and with proper decorum is the only path out of this mess.

We fail because we can't exercise self-control, empathy, and multi-dimensional decision-making. I'm prayerful that the day is coming where we can rise to that standard again.

Kanye West is a retromingent moron. He is devoid of any musical talent whatsoever. His recordings are garbage, and I am being kind.

Williams' comment may be more defensible if it was a bad call by the ref. Bad calls should be called out. Could have been more diplomatic, but I guess when you are wealthy....

Wilson was out of turn, but what is more surprising is that he (and his opponent) raised lots of $ after the outburst. Lots of people must have thought it cool.

Frankly I think there are more important issues to note such as the fact that you can type "great cats eat weeds" entirely with your left hand.

Kanye West shouldn't have to apologize. Because the whole thing was staged by MTV to begin with. You guys are just gullible enough to believe it is real.

amd Serena she's an athlete, athletes blow their their stack all the time, and the referee did make a bad call.

But the people on here commenting this as an issue of race, you guys are the one's racist.

This article is as wasteful as spending time -- "our tax money" -- on supposedly punishing a guy for speaking out in congress.

Why not ask yourself -- did Obama lie ? why is this not our focus ?

Certainly our money can be use more efficiently than what is going on right now. We are in the midst of a financial crisis and Joe Wilson's apology is what we are paying for.

Shall I clap ?

I completely agree with you. But I'm curious what your thoughts are about President Obama never apologizing for calling the police officer stupid. He backtracked, and then called it an unfortunate incident, but he never apologized.

With Jimmy Carter stating the obvious yesterday, (that racism is a significant factor in the angry mob uprisings) I challenge all the deniers and outright lying liars like Joe Wilson to PROVE it's not an issue. There's a simple and painless way to do it, and you don't have to apologize to anyone:
The next and every speech Joe makes on his re-election campaign, all he has to do is say out loud, "If you are a racist, I don't want your vote."
That's it. Pretty simple, right?
Well, I suggested the same to McCain while he was running for prez here:
www.damnedgentlemen.com
and then as now, it will never, ever, ever happen. Mainly because without the racist base...well, GOPers, do the scary scary math. Imagine what a beatdown last November would have been if the Racist element of society was somehow prohibited from voting.
Yes, Righties, it WOULD'VE been a bloodbath. And your party would fade into the mists of time and history, a quaint reminder of how we used to be a nation of backward yokels, like the flat-Earthers of Europe.
The racist element started whispering then, but they are starting to yell now. And they are nearly unanimously on the hard right.
Just say it, Joe Wilson; do you or don't you support racism? ANSWER THE QUESTION, BIGMOUTH! (sound of crickets chirping goes here.)
And for the Hard Rightie who has no microphone but has to rely on pathetic posts to boards like this, remember this:
As long as you do not unequivocally denounce racism and run the racists out, you cannot play the 'you're playing the race card' card.
You ARE the Party of Racism precisely because you don't chose to declare that you will not accept racism.
Even a racist liar like Joe "Racist Liar" Wilson knows that. In fact, he counts on it every election.
Just try to deny THAT.

First this comparison is ignorant. They are all in entirely different settings with different motivations. If you are going to want to fine and suspend Serena for disrepecting a line judge in a tennis tournament, but then make excuses for Joe and his disrespect to OUR president which means he disrespected our me and this countries process.

For you who love to shout out "Race Card"
you need to remember one thing. Hey... you started the card game not us. lol

Stop thinking a bill solves everything. If only life were that simple. No not everything is based on race, but you need to realize when so much HAS BEEN based on race it leaves little room to believe otherwise. Kanye in my opinion was ignorant and is just as bad as Brett Favre... just looking for the media. This is nothing more than a game to him. I'd vote to ban him from the next award show and to receive an award whether he performs it or writes it for one year. Any backlash after that and for life. Serena deserved her fine. That is it. Move on. It was bad enough the MEDIA tried to claim the girl threaten to kill the judge without proof and now we find she did not. But the damage was done with that little release.

Joe, you don't apologize by making an excuse as he has. Basically he said, I'll say I'm sorry, but I'll do it again.

And the comparisons of Democrats reactions to former President Bush don't come close.
They were within the limits of conduct. Wilson was far and beyond the limit.

Finally, how many people were arrested for disorderly conduct at these townhalls, considering their violent nature and in being this way drawing a crowd? ;)

Shouldn't you remove Serena Williams from your headline and article? She has apologized so your statements about her are false. See an article about her apology here in ESPN:

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/usopen09/news/story?id=4472638

It's really not fair to compare Serena and Joe in the same category as Kanye.

The difference being that at least both Serena and Joe were right. Serena's foot really was inbounds and Obama really was not telling the truth about illegal's receiving government sponsored health care, although they are changing it now because of Joe.

Kanye on the other hand was not only crude by interrupting the awards but also lied about Bush ordering the National Guard to shoot blacks in N.O. which actually was racist.

in context,joe wilson is a retired military officer, he is still subject to the laws of the UCMJ, disrespect for a superior officer is a violation of those same laws. were col. wilson the superior officer in question, the subordinate would be charged. he knows better, he knows his behavior was wrong in all context, his act was deliberate. he is also an elected official and his conduct should be held to a higher standard, not following the crowd. one day he could be on the other end of this and only have himself to blame for the turmoil he begot.

As Bill Maher recently said, an apology is not an indication of weakness, it is a sign of courage. To make a sincere apology, a person must be self aware and secure enough to admit his or her failings. I found all three of these outbursts despicable but somehow, for me, Wilson's was the worst. He speaks for an entire state and I suspect many from South Carolina were as stunned, dismayed and insulted as the rest of us when he so rudely disrespected the President, the joint houses and the American people.

Consevative Americans are a really interesting lot: one is not supposed to question leadership when politicians decide they want to go to war-and, justified or not, any sensible, reasonable human being would want to do everything to hinder going to war (m personal opinion). But then we get a president who wants to change the health care system, and, it's the apocalypse. Cities will burn, deamons will arise if we change the health care system. This seems to be the attitude the GOP has been giving, trying to stage a comeback but they keep shooting themselves in the foot. And Rabbi Hirschfield is right in placing Wilson in the same company as Williams and West (interesting-we once had one W to make the country look bad, no we've got 3), because no matter what you do, when the world is watching you are a representative of your nation and all who know you. At the end of the day, you are still a human being, no more special than the rest of us, and the rules of "civility" (rabbi, I almost forgot that we even had such a word in the English language) still apply to them.

Americans have always wanted to be "mavericks". unfortunately the age of Americans tying to be "mavericks", revolutionaries who set trends for the rest of the world and shape global perceptions of what Americans like and what they are like, has morphed into an age of bullies-we can't get our way so we'll fight you to keep our spotlight. As an expat living in Europe, I am more disturbed about my home nation than I was in the last 8 years.

And as far as apologies-I imagine that the commenters here are more clever than some of them write, so I AM SURE we all know that when someone apologizes for wrongdoing, though their apology is accepted, that is not the end of the story. You still have to face the emotional and material consequences, and the one whom you offend has already framed a different view of you, so the reltionship doesn't go back immediately like it was. Your access to the offendee will be restricted-if you offended a friend, you may still be friends but that person will learn to keep their distance slightly. So those who think that a simple apology does the trick has very little sense in how relationships are built and preserved. Congress was right today in reprimanding Wilson, just as they did Adam Clayton Powell in the 60's. Congress hen didn't let Powell get his way, and Wilson shouldn't get his.

Unfortunately, if I know South Carolina, he will unequivocally be reelected. Unless SC has changed dramatically in a year.

This kind of behaviour is really the fault of "enlightened" parents who have raised a whole generation of self-entitled sissies who believe it is better to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission. They believe we will forgive them anything. And it's our fault again for accepting these hollow apologies. These people aren't sorry at all. They're just sorry that their behaviour has impacted their pocketbooks. If we really want to nip this idiocy in the bud, we should stand up to these idiots, refuse to accept their phony apologies, and hit them where it really hurts - in the wallet! Ditto for woman beater Chris Brown!

Pretty obscure article; people have been a-holes throughout human history. I'm surprised at how far off the mark the author is with the Kanye and Wilson apologies, because those two are simply compelled by money. Kanye, because he would lose concert attendance without an apology, and Wilson because campaign contributions started pouring in for the then-unheard-of representative.

If the author's going to blame anyone, blame capitalism for making our society so robotic and unfeeling. We reap what we sow, and these days we mostly sow profit margins. Profit margins don't care if they're rewarding bad behavior.

First off, I think it is a shame that Serena's behavior on Saturday is being lumped in with Joe Wilson and Kanye West. There is a history of players snapping and losing self control at the highest levels of tennis competition. Unlike Joe Wilson and Kanye West, Serena was at the end of a critical match in a high pressure tournament. For two weeks she had been facing and defeating opponents at the highest levels of competition in both singles and doubles. People familiar with her career see this outburst as an indication of the extreme pressure she was under at the time and not as a characteristic display of her disdain for sportsmanlike conduct. For years she has shocked people specifically for being composed and sportsmanlike under the most extreme levels of mental and physical pressure and exhaustion. This time she lost her grip, but does Joe Wilson have a dacades long record of bipartisan grace? Does Kanye West normally exhibit maturity and civility towards atrists from other genres of music?

It is unfortunate that she lost control when she did, and I would prefer for her to not have behaved as she did, but it is worse to lump her outburst in with these other events. Two things make her conduct different from the other two. First off, she did apologize publically to the line judge and acknowledge that her behavior was unacceptable for multiple reasons. Secondly, unlike Joe Wilson and Kanye West, Serena Williams does not have a deeply rooted emotional commitment to oppose sportsmanship in the same way Wilson opposes Obama and West rejects the merits of Taylor Swift in comparison to Beyonce.

People are scared. They cling to things like guns and God to comfort them as they suffer through shallow lives. They are ignorant, and angry. And should be dismissed for as much. Religion simply foments this confusion, with it's fraudulent offer of 'heaven,' and a template for living that has nothing to do with life.

On Faith is a consequence of our collective idiocy. Religion is Fraud. And those who make a living off it should be jailed.

The protests about O'bama are because he campaigned to be so different than how he is running his presidency. We voted for someone who never outlined such an agenda, and it's a scary road to so many of us. It changes our national landscape in a big, dramatic way. I feel it's a wrong path.

Joe Wilson also knows that if he doesn't apologize again, the topic stays alive. It hasn't hurt him politically. Within his party, he's generating cash.

You over-estimate the value of an apology, conveniently forget numerous Democrat digressions in lamentable behaviour (Democrats booing GWB as he addressed Congress in 2005), which arouses -at least in my mind- the suspicion of bias, assume every emotive outburst has the same cause, - it does not -, and you forget history. While I agree that Ms. William's temper tantrum was all about her, I will give a five term Congressman with no previous record of ill-mannered behaviour the benefit of the doubt. Joe didn't yell "liar" for Joe, but for the people he represents, regrettably out of frustration, but on a topic for which he holds much passion. As far as regressing, I think our political discourse has improved greatly over the years. Congress during the Civil War years was quite raucous and then there was Aaron Burr. After not receiving an apology Alexander Hamilton for a perceived personal slur, he challenged Hamilton to a duel and shot him to death. Our Joe gets off easy in 2009 with a politically motivated House sanction.

I completely agree with the author's thoughtful and mature analysis of the current culture of belligerence and bad manners.

The many postings themselves bear out clearly how good the rabbi's analysis is.

There is freedom to disagree but there is no freedom to be rude and blatantly ill-mannered.

"All of these stories are rooted in the same basic fact: speakers who think it's all about them."

Welcome to the wonderful world of postmodern atheism. There are no standards except subjective standards. It is all about me.

I believe the reason so many of us (yep, me too) get rude with folks is because no one pays attention otherwise. For me, the most notable situation is the absolute refusal of the elected (and appointed) officials of the government to do as their constituents wish. We vote them out and the replacements do the same. They are corrupt, self-serving, untruthful and unresponsive not to mention stupid. What else can we do - perhaps a revolution?
My Rep. said in a town meeting that she works for the federal government. Hummmm, I thought she worked for us - the voters that put her in office. Is it any wonder I yelled at her? Obama (I voted for him) is a lier - he promised open government, we got closed government, just as closed as Bush. And now Obama's people are playing the race card. I'm sick of them all - and I will yell it to be heard.

JWX2, your comments show the same kind of incivility that the writer was talking about. You made his point. The problem isn't just with Joe Wilson; it's with all the people who believe they have the right to scream at others. Wilson could have written a response or given one in an interview showing his disagreements with the President, instead of acting like a uncivilized spectator at the President's speech. My mother once told me an old saying, "If you lose your temper, you lose."

This article is more opinion than fact. For one, Kayne West did apologize a total of three times (that I am aware). His actions were wrong and self-centered...but threatening? Serena Willams also apologized for her actions. Anyone can loose their cool, and regret it. But they are both simply entertainers, nothing more.

Joe Wilson on the other hand is a lawmaker with a greater responsibilty for, and expectation of, civility and class. He showed neither with his behavior. His apology, like Kanye and Serena, should be in public just like his actions were.

people famous or nobodys are not going to sit back and let an unfair decisions happen without their voice being heard, and I totaly agree with, kayne,joe,& serena. I had to do it this year to, let me explain, my 12 year old son played a city baseball league of about 400 kids this last summer,he is a very good player,and me being layed-off last spring, me and him worked intensly on his game, longstory,short he dominated the league in pitching& hitting hands down! and was completly overlooked for player of the year and he is bi-racial,half white& black, out of the 400 players 10to15 are african american.so I called them up and had to threatened them I was going to go to the mayor and some black community leaders with his stats &gms he won single handedly.

The article comments "...civility is all about us." That may well be. However, in the name of inclusivity, diversity, multi-culturalism and tolerance we are creating not a country of "us" but of 'us and them'.

The climate of incivility is enabled by blogs. People blog things that they would not have the courage to say to someone's face or even out loud. Talk radio further exacerbates the situation.

Let's get some separation between what Serena did and what Kanye and Joe did. Serena reacted in the heat of the moment. This does not excuse what she did but it does raise a mitigating factor that the other two do not have.

Let's pretend for a moment that someone decided to take the incivility to another level:

What if the lineswoman said:
"You're going to do what? I don't think so. You want a piece of me? Go for it!"

What if Taylor said:
"Would someone please bring Kanye a pacifier. The rest of the show can't be heard because of his incessant whining."

What if another member of Congress said:
"Joe, sit down and shut up or I'll shut you up!"

#1: Attention Energized Republican Extremists: No one is listening to you! Don't insist that President Obama is a liar or Bush was a mistreated saint. Give it up! No one cares about your fox news fairytales. You can't treat these right winger people with civility. Casting pearls before swine.

#2. Serena has a huge chip on her shoulder from Richard Williams, her father. Everything is about race and who is taking what from her because of her race. Sad fact: sometimes she is right. There are cases of unfairness. That line judge lied her ass off. Sorry Serena.

#3. Kanye. Well, you are right about Kanye. He is just an self-centered idiot. One black person disrespects white girl, one black person re-respects her. Thanks Beyonce. You got more class than Kanye can ever have.

What a load of drivel. Making a comparison of these three separate, distinct, unrelated and for the most part insignificant incidences is disrectful of your readers. The insignificance is evidenced by the comments of readers, most of whom obviously are unaware of the circumstances and details and probably couldn't care less about the U.S. Open Tennis Women's semifinal game or a Video Music Awards trophy presentation. Truthfully, Joe Wilson's outburst is more profane than anything Serena said because of the circumstances and the motivation. Everyone should care because it affects all our lives. And judging from many of the comments here, the underlying motivations are likely consistent with Congressman Wilson's.

DrFrasierCrane wrote: "Joe Wilson apologized where it mattered, and the apology was accepted where it mattered."

Actually, Wilson did NOT apologize where it mattered. Wilson's comment was offensive to the institution, to many of his very own constituents, to many of his colleagues in the House and Senate, and to the pubic who were offended when they heard his outburst.

A private apology is acceptable for a private offense, but a public apology is owed when many in the public are offended.

Both you and Wilson are wrong on this.

Oh, my. What are we to do? All of these ofenses really happened. That we/I write about them borders on silliness. It is surprising to me that anyone expects the most powerful people in the world (primaily politicians and celebraties) have always misbehaved and we now pretend we don't expect it. Demanding apoligies and getting apologies from our children is sensible and necessary. Demanding the same from those "above" all civility is non-sensible and useless.

Many of the comments on this thread reveal that the narcissistic attitude discussed in this article is not limited to those in the public sphere. You read this and you still insist Joe Wilson had a right to explode "because he's on my side and I agree with him," or "because somebody else did it first." Your individual political position is not the point either.
The point is, we need to find a civil way of working together in a democracy, or we are ALL in deep trouble. It's not all about me, nor is it about any of you, nor is it all about "my side, right or wrong."
And to the person who wants "results" rather than "civility": Any results obtained without civility will destroy our society. Please, stop and think, and let's bring back some compassion.
Right now I'm so embarrassed to be a part of this society.

The recent rash of political incivility started with Ted "The Swimmer" Kennedy's attack on Judge Bork.

It gained steam over the past 8 years thanks to Code Pink-o and ACORN.

Defund ACORN now, then investigate!

Joe Wilson apologized where it mattered, and the apology was accepted where it mattered. In the world of the House Democrats, however, it seems that you must apologize to all your co-workers, too, even though the offense wasn't at them. Mr. Hirschfield, is this really the world you want to live in, having to publicly apologize to ALL your co-workers when you have a momentary outburst (all of TWO WHOLE WORDS) at one of them?

And while we're at it, aren't these the same Democrats who booed the President *en masse* during the 2005 State of the Union address? Where was the call for civility then, Mr. Hirschfield? By your logic, each and every Democrat behind that should have been called up in front of Congress and apologized (after calling President Bush first, of course). Instead, nothing.

Sounds like a bit of a double-standard.

Thank you, Rabbi. I should stop reading about these loudmouths and their loudmouth minions because it really bums me out. I need to spend more time at the synagogue.

I didn't hear a lot of blind support for Serena or Kanye. And frankly, I was shocked by Serena's behavior. I expect more from her.

Kanye, not so much - especially since his mom passed away.

But even though I hadn't even heard of Sen. Wilson before his outburst - when I heard "Republican Senator from South Carolina" - I wasn't surprised one bit.

Southern manners are NOT the same as civility. Southern manners just means you have to say "ma'am" and send thank you cards. (I know - I live in Georgia. Rudest people in America, IMHO.)

While Mr Wilson's remark was rude and inappropriate, it was not inaccurate. Mr Wilson made a the appropriate apology directly to the President, who graciously accepted it. There was no racist agenda and no malice. Let it go.

Re: Meyre1

The speeches given by many in the early years of our Republic would make people today blush. You need to look up some of the outrageous accusations made in many speeches. The level of rancor could be really unbelievable. You are thinking of the mythological America, not the real one.

The only way the President didn't lie is if he doesn't know what's in the bill. The bill does not require proof of citizenship to access health-care.

Jonescry: I cannot remember any personal responsibility exhibited during the Bush Administration.

Thanks for a very insightful article. I think all the protestations show how incisive your analysis is, and how far we are from having the internet be a form for civil discourse. Maybe one day!

pink* parade*

Mr Hirschfield: We can never compare the cases of Rapper West and Tennis player Williams to the case of Joe Wilson. What troubles many people is the hypocrisy in the political arena. Nancy Pelosi -for example- and fellow travelers blasted mercilessly CIA operatives that protected our lives against those who preach convert or kill and death to infidels (ISLAMIC FANATICS). She never apologized. Congress people used to boo Bush and homosexuals dressed in pick -in an act of profanity- would break in senate sessions. So please cut the hypocrisy and stopped being offended for a crucifix while praising naked people who parades their perversion in the streets of America. Get my point?

How dare we try to hold our politicians to the same standards we apply to prima donna athletes and performers? You cheapen politicos beyond credibility! But you left out the one who should apologize to us Americans by calling us liars on national TV, on the floor of our sacred House of Congress. Did he do so with your blessing, Rabbi? Why should he be allowed to get away with it as well? Where are the checks and balances? Perhaps we have moved into a different phase in our republic, one in which the public demands respect from the politicos and will no longer confer it unless received! That goes for you journalists as well.

Many posters seem to miss two key points: 1) A sincere apology is not formulaic. It is grounded in remorse -- not for the action, but for the consequences to others. The three characters the author cites were apologizing out of regret for what they had brought upon themselves -- not others. Thus they were insincere.

2) Mr. Wilson -- whether right or wrong about the content of his comment (and that is obviously subject to debate) -- diminished the civility of his institution. It makes no difference if Democrats did so in 2005 or his fellow Republicans (who booed moments before his outburst) did so in 2009. Rep. Wilson stepped over a line that is not to be crossed. He shattered a civility barrier that should remain unbroken. And, if not willing to apologize for, should be rebuked to try to sustain that important barrier.

Wilson apologized exactly once, privately, to the President via his staff. He has not apologized to the body of which he is a member, the Congress of the United States, and whose rules he violated during a joint session of Congress.

And, he has since, in effect, recanted by insisting that what he said was true (it is not) and by insisting, in the face of the published content of the bill, that the President lied.

That his motives are suspect and clear from his personal history and affiliations is a different and more troubling issue, given that his associates in the Congress, for the most part, have refused to condemn his boorish and uncivil (in the context--time and location) behavior.

The issue is not apologies; they did that. The real issue is that's not enough for today's society. They need to suffer to satiate our thirst for truth...the kind of retribution that religious zealots invoke.

Excellent article; it points out only the tip of the iceberg so to speak. We have been assaulted over the course of 10 to 15 years with the likes of shows on TV like House, The Simpsons, and Rosanne to name a few. Allowing viewers to think its ok to be rude. We DO NOT have the societal rules of the 18th and 19th century. The information age has unleashed an ugly lack of etiguette. Miss Manners would have a field day just observing while riding on Metro. We are in a world of trouble to come.

Re: Ravitchin

"That means Wilson. It does not mean those two ill-mannered Negroes."

Finally, a pro-Wilson commenter honest enough to reveal their true motivation.

And we thought civility was dead? I wish it were "just" civility that is dying in our country. But the rabid right won't settle for that, it would seem.

joe wilson is definitely in a different category. at least his "unprofessional" act was based on truth and he was defending america from lies.
thanks joe!
Thrive Blog Author
http://thrive.today.com

You can not hold a polite, respectful conversation with yourself. The tone in this country started and will end when conservatives allow it to. They must take responsibility for their lunatic fringe and own up to their very grave mistakes during the Bush Administration. This is called personal responsibility.

This country no longer has free speech.This administration has squelched free speech and as we know the media failed america as it did not report many items during the presidential election.We are living in an age where political correctness has strangled freedom of press,speech and is about to rob the US of its constitutional freedoms.This administration does not foster dialogue and debate but rather controls the dialogue and leaves no room for critical analysis or difference of opinion.The extremists seeing the country suffocated by its political correctness and the naieve lack of US leadership has placed the American people and the world in danger.The biggest danger to the freedom inherent in democracies is the inability to engage in honest debate.

Its not like people have turned uncivil all of a sudden, its just that with the internet and instant communication and 24/7 media and digital camera and paparazzi journalism age of today, things get recorded and propogated instantly around the world that wouldn't have say even 20 years ago.
Kanye is not the first celeb to throw a public tantrum and he wont be the last. Obama is certainly not the first president ever to say a cuss(?) word either. Its just that things get out of hand really fast now.
Whats funny is, this is the first "bounce" news item I know of, where it bounced from Kanye to the president and turned into a second controversy of equal or greater proportion. Amazing.

Wilson apologized how many times already? How many times does he need to apologize before it becomes politically correct, Rabbi? Wilson should continue his apology tour just as soon as Obama apologizes for all of his lies. He should continue his apology tour once Chris Dodd and Charlie Rangle are behind bars for exploiting their congressional positions. He should continue his apology tour just as soon as Nancy Pelosi apologizes to the CIA for claiming they lied to her when in fact they didn't.
Don't you find it strange that Obama can apologize to the world for a few things but can't stand up for this country; for all of the great and MANY good things that our tax dollars have supported worldwide. Strange, don't you think Rabbi?

Excellent article. I completely agree with you. And I see that some of the "uninhibited belligerent" were some of the first to comment. Obviously they either didn't read the article or understand the article. Oh I forgot, there IS no article. It's all about them!

In what way were the Washington protesters "out of control". The Washington Post never fails to be biased.

It's interesting that some of your commenters still fail to get the point, even after you explained it so clearly.

Rob, as to Joe Wilson telling the truth: You lie! As Obama correctly stated, no proposed bill seeks to cover illegal aliens, who often receive services under our current system that the rest of us pay for right now. Wilson openly admitted this last Sunday. His complaint is actually that the emerging bill does not include a requirement that we all must have citizenship papers with us to receive medical care - a requirement Republicans tried under Bush and abandoned because it caused more problems than it solved.

Attention to facts, evidence and reason are greatly productive of civility. If we just believe things without them, we tend to believe more extreme things about our opponents, leading to incivility.

Thank you for a very clearly stated analysis of our society. Yes in today's USA "Its all about me"! We have become the society of the least common denominator. The drive for excellence in everything seems to be eroding faster then our 401K's. I would only disagree with the comparison between the town hall people and Kayne West in that these people are just normal average citizens who are extremely frustrated and scared about events that impact their lives so closely, but over which they have almost no control or voice. Therefore when given the chance they expressed their voice, and I congratulate them for being uncivil. I say that because it seems that our politicians forgot who they actually represent. Perhaps they will now listen.

I like your point of view, Brad. I have made my own such outbursts in the past. Your observations could explain why I have always felt like such a schmuck afterward.

That people no longer know how to apologize has been evident for several decades. I have a casual file of public apologies, all but a rare few of which are self-serving, duplicitous, self-aggrandizing, accusatory, childish and just plain ridiculous.

My community observations have been that in private life, people are no longer expected to apologize with any degree of contrition or humility. "Yeah, whatever" is more or less the height of accountability.

Children are not only untrained in the graciousness of sincerely saying "I'm sorry," they are defended by outraged parents if anyone suggests they should do so.

Regret requires not only a sense of humility, it requires compassion; to be truly sorry for our actions, we must empathetically understand how our actions affected others.

As the linguistic root implies, civilization must be built on civility.

Ours is crumbling slower than the towers, but just as surely.

I totally agree that Joe Wilson owes his colleagues, and the rest of us, a full apology. And one thing that is lost in this debate is that Mr. Wilson did not really apologize the first time. He merely had one of his aides issue a statement that mimicked an apology. If he were to truly have apologized, he would have delivered it himself, in person.

Are you kidding me? Where has this "civility" been for the last 8 years? Congress BOO'ed Bush in 2005 - did they apologize? Now that the conservatives are not the silent majority, there is a cry for civility??? The fact is, Obama *was* lying - or even worse, had no idea that illegals *would* in fact, get healthcare under his plan. The media, bless their little hearts, would not have given this fact ANY press if Joe Wilson had not spoken up! Wake up, America! When your president is a liar and the media perpetuates it, the time for civility is over. Mr. Wilson apologized to the president, which shows his respect for the office - good enough for me!

Wilson apologized to the President (who accepted) but not the the Congress, the body he disparaged with his un-civil behavior.

I thought I read that West and Williams fully apologized to everyone involved. West, I thought, showed that he fully understood the boorishness of his actions and I took his apologies as sincere.

Since were parsing apologies, lets parse the word "lie", as Wison accused Obama of doing. Obama didn't lie (neither did Bush regarding WMD for that matter). He may have been incorrect or ill-informed or not fully briefed on the issue of illegal alians receiving heath insurance aid, but that doesn't mean he "lied".

Article: "He just doesn't get it. Wilson doesn't appreciate that House rules which ban screaming out things like, "You lie!" are not simply about protecting the man at the mic, they are about creating a culture which encourages the free exchange of ideas."
____________

So I guess there is no "free exchange of ideas" in the entire Brithis House of Commons then where they have regularly yelled and carried on at each other for centuries?

C'mon that is utter crap and the author knows it!

Not much of an article. Who cares if people apologize after they do something stupid? The boorish things people do are facts of life. Mutual respect is one of the first things taught in kindergarten. Mr. Wilson, Mr. West, and Ms. Williams must have missed school that day. It is up to the rest of us to make sure that civilization moves forward.

You can not be civil with liers, theifs, tyrants, dictators, or murderers who break into your home in the night. That is a time for action. Wilson reflected the outrage against the current liberal extremist leadership, that pervades the entire nation. Constant lies, halftruths, and misleading statements, by this Administration does not call for civility. It calls for action by the people. Action which you have just begun to see over this past weekend. Action which will take place at the poles in the next set of elections. Action which should make the Government think about getting rid of the corruption before the American people decide to do so for them.

I'm embarrassed to be associated with the likes of my fellow Americans that behave in such a way. If you read my first sentence and thought I'm out of touch with reality then you are part of the problem. Society has a responsibility to teach civility but the left in this country does not stand for anything but allows everything. If they were my children I would slap them and send them to their rooms. I have lost any respect I afforded any of the three in this case.

The only difference of the three is Wilson was telling the truth.
Wilson did apologize to the president.

The whole premise for this Article is ABSURD.

Wilson Apologized to the President. That is the only one required. Liberal filth in the Senate are trying to make another idiotic stance by trying to make Wilson "apologize" to them. The Apology was given.

Not that I a big fan of either Wilson, or Kayne, but the last I heard Kayne has apologized several times for his behavior at the Music awards.

If Wilson's outburst was not based on racism, it was based on outrage against lies, halftruths, and mistatements that are being told to the public on a daily basis by the President, His Administration, and the Libearal Democrat Leadership. P.S. Wilson didn't grab the mike from Obama.

Kayne on the other hand is a confirmed racist. He has been brought up just like most liberal democrats want the entire African American populous to be. Racists just like them. But at least he too had the decency to apologize for his behavior, and that gives him a step in the right direction.

Hey, way to go everyone for not flaming anyone else in this discussion (so far)! Maybe we're getting somewhere! Keep it up, America!

I want less civility and better results...

I called Rep. Wilson's SC office and asked why he should not be courtmartialed for his comments (Article 88 of the UCMJ says that a commissioned officer--he's a retired colonel in the SC National Guard; a commissioned officer--who is contemptuous toward the President shall be punished as a court martial may direct). The staffer who answered tried to tell me is was because the President was lying, and therefore Rep Wilson was entitled to so accuse him. But even if this is true (and Politifact.org says it is not), the staffer completely misses the point: It is necessary for the proper order and discipline in the ranks for an officer, especially, to uphold the dignity of the Commander in Chief's office, and therefore, the chain of command, that one speaks respectfully of the President. And, to make it worse, this was not a couple of Junior officers griping over a beer in a back table at a bar; this was by a full Colonel, while the President was uniquely acting in his office: speaking to the Congress in a joint session.

How can we maintain our sociey, and the respect afforded our military when they are led by someone who so betrays his commission? This is a betrayal of his oath. But he doesn't get it, either.

Pr Chris

Excellent analysis and the problem is pervasive. Even my students think it is 'all about them' and don't understand that civil behavior is good for ALL of us.

Er, um, I thought Joe Wilson DID apologize and Obama accepted his apology. Isn't that what happened? But Democrats seem determined to pretend that he did not apologize. Maureen Down even pinned the sentence "You lie, boy" on him, even though HE never used the word "boy". I think Democrats need to learn a lesson in civility themselves.

Note that Bush has studiously refrained from criticizing Obama and even said, "He is entitled to my silence." The result is that no one mentions Bush's civility and Cheney is all over the place.

If we want this country to be civilized again, we all have to play our part.

I completely agree with you. This is one of the best discussions of civility in our public discourse that I have read.