The Dangerous Hypocrisy of Theocrats

i believe individuals who happen to be muslim share the innate desires for peace, love and harmony, but,

HELP!!!!

i've been asking this question over and over (apologies to those who've seen it) on various threads, but still no answer:

are there verses you can quote from the koran (that were not later superseded by the ugly medina verses) and hadith that promote tolerance, fairness, equality, freedom of religion, self-determination etc...?
please, i would really like to know.

Nice article, Rabbi, saying what you mean, there.

Just for discussion, though:

"The real debate here is about who decides what's right for people, people themselves or God."

Or is phrasing the question that way exactly what leads to all this tragedy and corruption?

Actually, perhaps the elephant in the room is that it's a lot easier to phrase things this way and claim to 'speak for God' than it is to actually *do* it. Especially when constrained by the further demands of a religion that constitutes a rival authority.

Frankly, I think the religions which have the most obvious problems governing without corrupting both... are religions which structurally *are* attempting to be books of law and forms of government. Of course there's a rivalry: it's 'serving two masters' as the monotheists say.

"The irony is that even for the theocrats it's a matter of choice - they choose to hear the call of God in a particular way and therefore would like to establish a government which accords with their hearing. I appreciate that desire. I even sympathize with it, since I assume that all well-meaning people aspire to use their most deeply held values to establish what they deem to be the best form of government."

I wonder if that isn't a monotheist problem.

My most deeply-held values about the best form of government, (well, I suppose they take different shapes in different lives, ...the *deepest* values, perhaps, one learns along the way, whatever the source, if you need a source beyond who and what we are...)

...My most deeply-held values about good government, though, these are things we *bring before the Gods* not claim *came from them* and are to be imposed.

I *really* believe in this America thing, and that's the kind of creature I'll *be* when I next meet the Gods in the way most like you may relate to.

All due props to Deities involved, (it's a co-creative process in many Pagan views) ...but stuff we made out of it is stuff we made out of it. We should be doing all our Gods proud, *facing *them,* rather than turning around and claiming, 'Obey! They *command* what someone cames up with.'

We should appreciate & recognize the historical & ongoing value of the U.S. Constitutional seperation of church & state along w/ freedom religion & no religious test for office...
Our historical rejection of theocratic governments has enabled people to worship or not worship God as they choose w/out officially supported coercion or intimidation...which has often happened in nations w/ state religions

The problem with theocracies and well as many religions is that someone one decides what God wants and anyone who disagrees with that person is speaking heresy. The problem with a theocracy is that it pretends to gives someone power that only God can give. To me saying you are God's choosen to rule is blasphemy. And saying that you know without a doubt how God wish's to rule is blasphemy.