My Apology for My Poorly Worded Post

yjam bgnv uymzg nlatfdr nvryb smyw cilmdj

Arun Gandhi is ABSOLUTELY correct and his analysis of Israel's oppression of the Palestinians is absolutely spot on - he SHOULD NOT apologize and has no reason to at all. If anything he should be proud of what he says and stand to his views.

I agree with Mr. Gandhi's sentiments.

I was appalled by the over-reaction to his comments, which validate his original observations and conclusions. Even more-so by the "invitation" for him to write a sequel about "what he had learned from this event." Is he some child to be chastised for uttering blasphemy? Should he be sent to the Principal's office?

Of late, whenever an individual -- no matter what his/her status -- remarks about Israel or Judaic issues in the slightest critical manner, that individual is vilified by the AIPAC pit bulls, who immediately wave the "anti-Semitic" banner and condemn the writer in ad-hominem attacks; but the content of the writer's comments is rarely addressed.

The result is a blanket censorship by intimidation -- which on any other topic would be intolerable to the Fourth Estate. What's next? Book-burning to teach people of Mr. Gandhi's ilk the lesson that "freedom of speech" as it applies to Israel is not to be tolerated?

Mr Gandhi certainly learned his lesson:
i.e., speak your mind and be publicly humiliated and forced to resign from your job. A great moral lesson for our kids.

Frankly, your remarks were more than "poorly worded." They were rabidly racist, venomous, hateful. You are not a young man, Mr. Gandhi. It is unfortunate that in the long life Hashem has blessed you with, you have learned so little to love your fellow human.

Frankly, your remarks were more than "poorly worded." They were rabidly racist, venemous, hateful, evidence of an appalling ignorance of Judaism, Jews, Israel, and the Holocaust. You are not a young man, Mr. Gandhi. It is unfortunate that you have learned so little to love your fellow humans in your long life.

Frankly, your remarks were more than "poorly worded." They were rabidly racist, venemous, hateful, evidence of an appalling ignorance of Judaism, Jews, Israel, and the Holocaust. You are not a young man, Mr. Gandhi. It is unfortunate that you have learned so little to love your fellow humans in your long life.

Q. What is the lesson to be drawn from this pathetic episode?

A. A great man can have an idiot for a grandson.

Arun is not a bigot,just a bigidiot.

"One does not create a country, using other people's land,"

True. That's why the Arab Muslim states in Jordan, Syria and Egypt have no right to exist and there will be violence and fighting until the Muslim invaders are driven off the lands they've been illegitimately occupying for the last 1400 years or so.

No justice, no peace, as jew-hating western leftys like to say.

How come anybody say Mr. Arun is hurting, while he is speaking the truth. America is a free country. Freedom of speech is fundamental to the rights of every human.

Arun Gandhi is a noble man. And he is certainly not a bigot.

One would have to admire the Israeli's,even after all this rubbish that is thrown at them.They are still standing tall.Surging ahead in every endeavor,and in every field.The Aruns of this world will be ignored,and kicked to the side-walk.

This is not the place to discuss problems in Islam.

If that were the case,then why the hell are the Indians occupying Kashmir,murdering and slaughtering innocent Kashmiri civilians....Imraan Farouque

The Arun Gandhi's words may be poorly worded in his Jewsish identity blog but his post does speak of truth.

The Israeli's for example have been agressivly grabbing more and more palestinian lands using illegal Jewish colonies. Why should Isreal be considered a perpetual victim, while all the time it has been slowly throtling the Palestians under one pretext or the other ?

The very creation of Israel is actualy a racist, colonial act. If the Christian west had so much guilt about the prosecution of Jews for 2000 years followed by the Holucast, they should have carved a country for Jews out of there own lands.

One does not create a country, using other people's land, no matter who lived in the land 2000 years ago.

Its starting to get tiresome that every time Israeli policy is questioned a bunch of people shout Zealot and raise charges of anti-semitism.

Ashok.

"Since the first Infitada started in the late 1980s the Jews and the Jewish state have killed less than 5,000 Palestinians."

Correction: Make that less than 6,000.

Unlike Arun Gandhi if I say something that isn't correct, I correct it.

That's because I'm not a liar.

"We have created a culture of violence (Israel and the Jews are the biggest players)"

Liar.

Retract your lie, liar.

Since the first Infitada started in the late 1980s the Jews and the Jewish state have killed less than 5,000 Palestinians.

During the same period Indian Hindus like you have killed tens of thousands of people in the fighting in Kashmir, including, according to the human rights group, Human Rights Watch, several thousand people summarily executed by the Indian Army and Indian paramilitaries.

Indian Hindus like you are far bigger players in the so-called culture of violence than the Jews are.

Retract your lie, liar.

"Are Palestinians not victims???"

No, they're foreign invaders, imperialists, colonialists, terrorists and murderers squatting on lands that don't belong to them and currently they're killing innocent people in an attempt to regain political control over lands stolen by them from Christians and Jews centuries ago.

That's what they are.

Pray tell "AAron". In Iran where they hang gays and teenagers,or Cuba where they kill just about everybody,or perhaps Pakistan where they slit innocent journalists throats on camera,hang on,this civilized world would have to be in Saudi Arabia where beheadings are a national sport.Or Venezuela
where a moronic dictator is trying to start a war in South America.I could go on and on and on about this wonderful civilized world of yours,but I'm starting to get bored.Aaron find a beach,take this Arun with you and walk into the sunset and don't look back.

I agree with Mr. Gandhi to a large extent that the Israeli government deserves severe reproachment and condemnation for perpetrating grave atrocities on Palestinians and for resorting to barbaric means which they are so comfortable calling "collective punishment".

What the Palestinians have endured at the hands of Israel (which cannot be denied is largely a Jewish state) is no less than what Jews have had to endure. The holocaust happened six decades back and all Germans (not just Nazis) had to own up to the acts of a mad man (afterall the mad man came to power on "popular support"). Likewise, the Jews of Israel must have to own up for the government at the centre is their popularly elected government. Moreover the hell that has been unleashed upon Palestinians in what was once their own land, makes the Israeli actions appear all the more vicious. It is hilarious how Israel invokes the holocaust argument and anti-semitic argument to project to the world that they are "victims" while conveniently forgetting or ignoring what they have been doing to Palestinians for such a long time. Are Palestinians not victims??? And if anyone (Mr. Gandhi included) points this out to a nation full of self-pity, then he/she is immediately branded an "anti-Semite". For God's sake....get some balance. Israel has the potential to be a great nation if it basis its future on "forgive and forget" rather than "Tit-for-Tat". Mr. Gandhi's point, besides the inappropriate use of the word "Jews", is well received. I think Mr. Gandhi had everything else exactly right and Washington Post should not squirm from posting similar articles in future which challenge domination by the unjust.

Thinking about the world more objectively, the real axis of evil administrations are those of China, Israel and the US because all of them manifest serious land-grabbing tendencies - an uncivilized trait in what we call a civilized world.

I agree with Mr. Gandhi to a large extent that the Israeli government deserves severe reproachment and condemnation for perpetrating grave atrocities on Palestinians and for resorting to barbaric means which they are so comfortable calling "collective punishment".

What the Palestinians have endured at the hands of Israel (which cannot be denied is largely a Jewish state) is no less than what Jews have had to endure. The holocaust happened six decades back and all Germans (not just Nazis) had to own up to the acts of a mad man (afterall the mad man came to power on "popular support"). Likewise, the Jews of Israel must have to own up for the government at the centre is their popularly elected government. Moreover the hell that has been unleashed upon Palestinians in what was once their own land, makes the Israeli actions appear all the more vicious. It is hilarious how Israel invokes the holocaust argument and anti-semitic argument to project to the world that they are "victims" while conveniently forgetting or ignoring what they have been doing to Palestinians for such a long time. Are Palestinians not victims??? And if anyone (Mr. Gandhi included) points this out to a nation full of self-pity, then he/she is immediately branded an "anti-Semite". For God's sake....get some balance. Israel has the potential to be a great nation if it basis its future on "forgive and forget" rather than "Tit-for-Tat". Mr. Gandhi's point, besides the inappropriate use of the word "Jews", is well received. I think Mr. Gandhi had everything else exactly right and Washington Post should not squirm from posting similar articles in future which challenge domination by the unjust.

Thinking about the world more objectively, the real axis of evil administrations are those of China, Israel and the US because all of them manifest serious land-grabbing tendencies - an uncivilized trait in what we call a civilized world.

And our trust is in our weapons.

Enunciating that a nonviolent alternative to the middle east's problems must be found is a major service that Arum Ghandi has performed. Mr Ghandi has preached nonviolence directly to the Palestinian leadership as well. Only by opening their hearts to the message of peace can the people of the middle east find a whole way forward. The University of Rochester does a serious disservice to the cause of academic freedom as well as that of peace by pressuring Mr Ghandi to resign. It Is a shame we cannot discuss nonviolence civilly.

"His grandfather had a balanced approach to the Jewish presence in Israel."

Sure he did. Gandhi's position was that westerners had no right to come to India and force their culture and political systems on Indians, OTOH, according to Gandhi, westerners had no right to resist when Muslims come to the middle east and force their culture and political systems on westerners (which the Muslims have been doing in Palestine for nearly 1400 years).

"It is my firm opinion that Europe today represents not the spirit of God or Christianity but the spirit of Satan."--M. Gandhi

Gandhi hated the west with every fiber of his being, so much so that he was unable to extend to westerners (be they Christian or Jew) the same right to defend their lands and culture against foreign domination that he demanded for himself and his people.

Gandhi's approach was simple, he had no moral principle higher than hating western civilization, and if indulging his passionate hatred for the west meant applying double standards, then that's what he did.

Kinda runs in the family.

"the State of Israel's slow gentle genocide."

Today's jew-haters are much like the Nazi jew-haters of the 20th century. Unable to justify their hatred for Jews and the Jewish-state with real reasons, they have to fabricate false reasons to justify their irrational hatred. This then gets repeated ad nauseum in a technique Nazi propaganda-master, Goebbels, called "The Big Lie", and finally, when the slaughter begins, the cries of "they were committing genocide against us" will be on the lips of every Arab thug, just like the cry "they're dirty untermenschen" was on the lips of every German who took part in the mass slaughter of Jews and Slavs in the 1940s.

Some things never change.

Where are our Jewish and Hebrew brothers and sisters to support the truth and this man of truth? Shame on you all.

Please do not ask why. Your question is written in the sand.

P. Candlelight

Sir,

What you said was by no means outside of the bounds of discussion. I wish you would have stood your ground and stayed on at the institute you yourself founded.

I find Mr. Arun Gandhi's initial comment an unfortunate mistake, careless. However, he obviously did not mean to castigate Judaism or Jewish people per se, just those who are in charge in the Israeli government. His grandfather had a balanced approach to the Jewish presence in Israel. See http://www.freedomarchives.org/pipermail/news_freedomarchives.org/2004-June/000449.html
THE JEWS IN PALESTINE, By Mahatma Gandhi 1938.

Jewish or pro-Zionist groups in the US who pressured his resignation may have been forced by their very mandate as protectors, given the actual words Mr. Gandhi chose. Technically they were correct, as was the President to accept with his mandatory statement concerning the unbefittingness of Mr. Gandhi's initial comment.

However, However, However----

Unfortunately, many proper and religious/or secular Jews are indeed foundered by the immense weight of the actual events of the Jewish Holocaust AND its post-event trauma, perpetrated beyond proportion under the direction of what is known and observable as the "holocaust industry."

In the longer term, the wrong lessons are being taken from the Holocaust, such as its exclusivity for Jews, its absolute uniqueness, its chances of repetition. 1) Holocausts have occurred for others, including Chinese citizens, Soviet citizens, Southeast Asians, Central American Indians, and yes Muslims, all in that same Century of Holocaust. Indeed millions of non-Jews were killed by the Nazis. 2) Holocausts of different natures have taken place, such as War Holocausts in Tokyo and Hiroshima and Cambodia, Cleansing Holocausts of North and South American Indians of equally immense proportions, and the like. 3) As for future Holocaust fears, slow unexciting economic holocausts also count toward this dismay, such as what is happening NOW to 1.5 million Muslims who live in Gaza.

The reason Mr. Gandhi is still concerned about many Jew's response is similar to how I have thought of the current Jewish dilemma:

Too many Jews allow the shadow of the Jewish Holocaust to be used by pro-Israeli state Zionist idealists to in turn use current Jews around the world as "family hostages", who by their own forced silence, observe in horror while their good reputation is being abused by Zionists as a moral cover for the State of Israel's slow gentle genocide. In the eyes of the uneducated world citizenry, this association may someday undermine the moral backing of ALL Jews, most of whom are innocent, and at a minimum puts the long-term existence of this country into peril, at which point in time its not-so-Jewish leaders would simply evacuate to save themselves and their wealth.

The use of protracted fear of Holocaust to garner sympathy and acquiescence for the continued wielding of a mean-spirited overbearing military apparatus against poor people is simply unsustainable. Think of it, Israel’s reputation around the world is as bad as that of the US President’s????

Dear All,

I go through all the comments posted on the site and sorry to observe that despite huge advancements , people all over world are still prejudiced , rationally blind and intellectually poor. Most of the comments(either in favour Mr.Gandhi or against)are not outcomes of reason or rational thinking but reflections of individual prejudices and predilections.

Despite being a Muslim with a religious background , I always felt equally pained if anything happen to an israeli citizen or a palestanian person.They all are fellow human beings. Nothing gives us the right to take human lives.
May God bless all the people with good senses!
AMEN..
Those who believe love and peace are the only things which will beget salvation and enlightenment to human being can share his views with me : abdullah71@gmail.com

Dear All,

I go through all the comments posted on the site and sorry to observe that despite huge advancements , people all over world are still prejudiced , rationally blind and intellectually poor. Most of the comments(either in favour Mr.Gandhi or against)are not outcomes of reason or rational thinking but reflections of individual prejudices and predilections.

Despite being a Muslim with a religious background , I always felt equally pained if anything happen to an israeli citizen or a palestanian person.They all are fellow human beings. Nothing gives us the right to take human lives.
May God bless all the people with good senses!
AMEN..
Those who believe love and peace are the only things which will beget salvation and enlightenment to human being can share his views with me : abdullah71@gmail.com

Dear All,

I go through all the comments posted on the site and sorry to observe that despite huge advancements , people all over world are still prejudiced , rationally blind and intellectually poor. Most of the comments(either in favour Mr.Gandhi or against)are not outcomes of reason or rational thinking but reflections of individual prejudices and predilections.

Despite being a Muslim with a religious background , I always felt equally pained if anything happen to an israeli citizen or a palestanian person.They all are fellow human beings. Nothing gives us the right to take human lives.
May God bless all the people with good senses!
AMEN..
Those who believe love and peace are the only things which will beget salvation and enlightenment to human being can share his views with me : abdullah71@gmail.com

for the past sixty years the United States and the western governments have encouraged the Israelis to nurture the embattled frame of mind forcefully occupying land which has been the peaceful habitat of generations of
Jews and Palestinians living as good neighbours.The promise of a "Home Land" has no sanctitiy at all. This claim of a promised home land stands on the same footing as the the Hindu's calim of a temple for Rama in India on which the totally unaccepable destruction of Babri Masjid ,a Muslim Holy Shrine, was justified.
Is it not time for the Jews of the United States to advocate a complete disarmament of the region and work out an equitable solution in which the legitimate rights of all is ensured without trying to harp on the old grievances

"Why is Gandhi being skewered and dishonored for uttering, for the sake of peace, the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?"

Because what he says isn't true.

Also, because people like me hate phonies like him who go around engaging in acts, and making statements that are designed to cause violence (by inciting hatred against Jews in this case) while pretending to be seekers of peace. Same hypocritical crap his grandfather pulled in India with predictable results...hundreds of thousands of people killed, not in the cause of peace at any cost, but in the cause of driving the British out of India at any cost.

Finally, because the Palestinians are the enemies of my blood, and I automatically hate anyone who's on their side.

There's three good reasons for you, hoss.

Now, feel free to resume your lie-filled anti-semitic tirade.

Dear fellow Americans and seekers of peace everywhere:

Regarding Arun Gandhi’s remarks about Jews-
And his ouster therefore:
We do not need another Holocaust
Nor Do we need another Gandhi Martyrdom

I only wish I stood in a position wherefrom I might reject the resignation of Arun Gandhi from his position as chairman of the his Institute for Non-violence at the University of Rochester.

I herewith encourage him to withdraw his resignation, which was obviously under fire, and to resist peacefully the avalanche of pious, pro-Semitic sentiment that has worked his cruel institutional undoing as a voice of peace and sanity in the perennially-warring world of religion and religious zealots.

Gandhi’s surrender “under fire” is reminiscent of the media’s banishment of American odds-maker, “Jimmy the Greek” for his utterly-true but politically untimely mentioning that blacks in America have selective breeding during slavery to thank for their clearly superior (over American Caucasian counterpart athletes) athletic abilities.
Why is Gandhi being skewered and dishonored for uttering, for the sake of peace, the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
Why in fact has he been driven to recant any of his Jan. 7 essay? Why has he, himself in his January 12 “Apology” stated: “ I do not believe and should not have implied that the policies of the Israeli government are reflective of the views of all Jewish people. Indeed, many are as concerned as I am by the use of violence for state purposes, by Israel and many other governments.” ?
In fact Gandhi did not attribute militancy to “all Jews” or “all” of Israel, but his comment was clearly both fair and true in implication because if all Jews are not in favor of Israel’s hard line policies in Palestine, virtually all of those in favor of those hard-line policies are in fact Jews. The same goes for the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948 and every year since: Israel was established with pre-meditated (massive) bloodshed. The original settlers, despite the vote of the League of Nations granting them their national raison d’etre, knew the inhabitants of the ceded territories would immediately attack them when the grant was accepted and immigration begun, and the settlement of Israel was begun with the heart, mind and intent of the acquisitive warrior.

Israel was perhaps settled by Israeli’s but the State of Israel was established by its affluent Jewish supporters in America. Without the millions of dollars granted Israeli settlers and soldiers, without the grants of weapons and military vehicles, advisers and munitions, from 1948 through and including 2008, Israel, America’s puppet Jewish settlement in the Middle East promised land (shared by both Jewish and Christian Biblical mythologies and religious dogma), there would be no Israel and no violence in the Middle East (save perennial squabbles over subterranean oil deposits, mostly our fault too), and on this virtually unassailable ground, Gandhi’s thesis and assertions were quite simply true.

Gandhi didn’t even mention the recently-verified (by bin Laden himself reportedly) that the attack on America on 9/11/01 was clearly the result of America’s alliance with Israel, and who is historically-challenged enough today to gainsay the causal nexus between our current war in Iraq (and insipient financial collapse) and that attack on 9/11?

But along with the truth of his assertions, there was the collateral fact that his sooth-sayings were also “stereotypical”, and what is more, stereotypical shots at religious sacred cows are and will remain taboo until the inviolable halo of “religion” is removed from people who largely use their religious beliefs as cause(s) de guerre.

Israel is at war, constantly, with its neighbors because it seized an opportunity born of Europe’s (and perhaps the world’s) guilt and compassion over the holocaust. But more non-Jewish than Jewish people were slaughtered by the horrors of Hitler’s Axis of evil during the same period; they were simply not slaughtered for “religious” or ethnic reasons.

But the Holocaust was, as Gandhi quite cogently put it, over a half century ago. To maintain a sense of “victimhood” and unrelenting defensive and offensive militancy from 1938 through 2008 is reminiscent of the idiocy parodied by Mark Twain in Huckleberry Finn, where a new comrade of the young protagonist is killed by a family foe in a feud the origins and reasons for which were no longer known.

The ouster of Gandhi for telling the truth of Israel’s perennially militant stand in the world is hypocritical at best, both from the standpoints of his affiliations with Rochester and the “On Faith” page of the Washington Post. Shame, shame on (all three of them): University of Rochester’s President , Joel Seligman and On-Faith’s Sally Quinn and Jon Meacham for disloyalty and cowardice beyond the call of duty.

I note that it’s no longer possible from the “main page” of the Washington Post “On Faith” blog even to scroll down to Gandhi’s January 7th commentary on Israel and the Jews. Readers of Michelle Boorstein’s January 26 coverage of Gandhi’s forced resignation have to research the matter of Gandhi’s so-called “anti Semitic” assertions indirectly by meandering through the plethora of principally Jewish protests currently bombarding the ramparts of the Post’s and University of Rochester’s blogs.

I don’t accuse Gandhi of cowardice, however. I think he retreated not because it was the “just” thing to do, but rather because it was the peaceful thing to do. He was true to his (and his grandfather’s) form and walking his walk. But having said that, I think his retreat and apology are both morally wrong and counter-productive in the cause of peace. Even the Dalai Lama in his book on happiness concedes that, even though it is essential to love your neighbors even when they are your enemies….sometimes it is necessary to do what is required to defend yourself and your loved ones from attack. I am herewith attempting to do for Arun Gandhi what he appears to be unwilling to do, justly, for himself.

The “On Faith” blog was purportedly established to create a clearing house and open forum for sharing eclectic and creative ideas and views on religion. To quote from Quinn’s and Meacham’s own mission statement, the purpose of the blog on which Gandhi expressed his views included: (the exchange of views ….)

“From the nature of evil to religious reformation, from the morality of fetal stem-cell research to the history of scripture, from how to raise kids in multi-faith households to the place of gays in traditional churches -- of the asking of questions, to paraphrase Ecclesiastes, there shall be no end.

Well, it appears that Gandhi has discovered that there in fact “shall be …an end”…that is a point at which free expressions of religious ideas are no longer found “tolerable”, either in the peaceful institution of his own foundation or among his allies in the media or University.

I detest, rebuke and renounce all those actions and expressions which have culminated in Arun Gandhi’s forced resignation from his position and candid quest for peace. This event smacks of fascistic theocracy and embodies the odiously-evolving of religious institutions in our collective midst in terms recently portrayed by Philip Pullman’s trilogy, “His Dark Materials” ( including, most recently, the movie, “The Golden Compass”). The University of Rochester, Gandhi Institute, and “On Faith” bloggers are all acting in concert as the evil and oppressive “Magisterium” in Pullman’s brilliant and prescient fictional accounting of a world progressively reducing itself to an oligarchy of fascistic religious fundamentalists--and a concomitant intellectual peasantry of masses afraid to oppose—or even to question them.

I am (the writer hereof) no more an anti-Semite than Arun Ghandhi is. And Arun Ghandhi is in no way or degree an anti-Semite. Being anti-Zionist is not being anti-Semite. Israel is a Zionist state. Zionism is a matter of unjustified and aggressive war and conquest based on religious mythology. Knowing and stating such truth does not make me an anti-Semite. Knowing and stating that Israel, with its American-manufactured and financed armaments is the most militant and aggressive state in the Middle East, having the greatest stockpile of weapons of mass –and minor—destruction does not make either me or Gandhi’s comments consonant with such truths…anti-Semitic.

The end of Arun Gandhi’s January 7th comments are essentially my own, and so I will close with them, primarily in order to cleanse them of the diluting taint of his subsequent –unwarranted--apology therefor.

Well, with your superior weapons and armaments and your attitude towards your neighbors would it not be right to say that you are creating a snake pit? How can anyone live peacefully in such an atmosphere? Would it not be better to befriend those who hate you? Can you not reach out and share your technological advancement with your neighbors and build a relationship?
Apparently, in the modern world, so determined to live by the bomb, this is an alien concept. You don't befriend anyone, you dominate them. We have created a culture of violence (Israel and the Jews are the biggest players) and that Culture of Violence is eventually going to destroy humanity.
Accordingly, about both the Jewish Holocaust and the martyrdom of anyone named Gandhi for telling the truth, I say the same thing—
NEVER AGAIN !
Robert R. Schoch*

*Robert R. (Dusty) Schoch
607 Overbrook Drive (parcels)
P.O. Box 5743 (letters; insured parcels)
High Point, NC 27262
Phone: (336) 887 3119
Fax: (336) 887 1227
E-Mail: Rschoch@triad.rr.com
Cell: (336) 847 4777
Robert R. (Dusty) Schoch is an attorney, inventor (author of Milton Bradley’s “Crack the Case”), designer (United Features Syndicate-licensed “Snoopy’s Dream Machines”) and manufacturer (D.C.S. International, Inc.), Inventor’s representative and broker of toys, games and other inventions (President and C.E.O. of I.D.E.A.S. , “Invention Design Enhancement And Sales”) and writer (novels, essays, screenplays) living in High Point, N.C. BA (English) degree, UNC Chapel Hill, JD (law) U. of Ala., Tuscaloosa. Dusty is founder and scribe of the B.E.A. (“Barristers et al”) a N.C.-based, politically-independent foreign policy think tank. He is also co-editor (foreign policy) of Democratswrite.com through the contact link of which readers are invited to correspond with him.

________________________________________

Mean in spirit and mean in looks.Christ this man is butt ugly.No amount of posts from his cheer-leaders are able to save this man's ugly soul.He has sold his soul to the devil by supping with him.

Dear fellow Americans and seekers of peace everywhere:

Regarding Arun Gandhi’s remarks about Jews-
We do not need another Holocaust;
Nor Do we need another Gandhi martyrdom

I only wish I stood in a position wherefrom I might reject the resignation of Arun Gandhi from his position as chairman of the his Institute for Non-violence at the University of Rochester.

I herewith encourage him to withdraw his resignation, which was obviously under fire, and to resist peacefully the avalanche of pious, pro-Semitic sentiment that has worked his cruel institutional undoing as a voice of peace and sanity in the perennially-warring world of religion and religious zealots.

Gandhi’s surrender “under fire” is reminiscent of the media’s banishment of American odds-maker, “Jimmy the Greek” for his utterly-true but politically untimely mentioning that blacks in America have selective breeding during slavery to thank for their clearly superior (over American Caucasian counterpart athletes) athletic abilities.

Why is Gandhi being skewered and dishonored for uttering, for the sake of peace, the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
Why in fact has he been driven to recant any of his Jan. 7 essay? Why has he, himself in his January 12 “Apology” stated: “ I do not believe and should not have implied that the policies of the Israeli government are reflective of the views of all Jewish people. Indeed, many are as concerned as I am by the use of violence for state purposes, by Israel and many other governments.” ?

In fact Gandhi did not attribute militancy to “all Jews” or “all” of Israel, but his comment was clearly both fair and true in implication because if all Jews are not in favor of Israel’s hard line policies in Palestine, virtually all of those in favor of those hard-line policies are in fact Jews. The same goes for the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948 and every year since: Israel was established with pre-meditated (massive) bloodshed. The original settlers, despite the vote of the League of Nations granting them their national raison d’etre, knew the inhabitants of the ceded territories would immediately attack them when the grant was accepted and immigration begun, and the settlement of Israel was begun with the heart, mind and intent of the acquisitive warrior.

Israel was perhaps settled by Israeli’s but the State of Israel was established by its affluent Jewish supporters in America. Without the millions of dollars granted Israeli settlers and soldiers, without the grants of weapons and military vehicles, advisers and munitions, from 1948 through and including 2008, Israel, America’s puppet Jewish settlement in the Middle East promised land (shared by both Jewish and Christian Biblical mythologies and religious dogma), there would be no Israel and no violence in the Middle East (save perennial squabbles over subterranean oil deposits, mostly our fault too), and on this uncontrovertable ground, Gandhi’s thesis and assertions were quite simply true.

Gandhi didn’t even mention the recently-verified (by bin Laden himself reportedly) that the attack on America on 9/11/01 was clearly the result of America’s alliance with Israel, and who is historically-challenged enough today to gainsay the causal nexus between our current war in Iraq (and insipient financial collapse) and that attack on 9/11?

But along with the truth of his assertions, there was the collateral fact that his sooth-sayings were also “stereotypical”, and what is more, stereotypical shots at religious sacred cows are and will remain taboo until the inviolable halo of “religion” is removed from people who largely use their religious beliefs as cause(s) de guerre.

Israel is at war, constantly, with its neighbors because it seized an opportunity born of Europe’s (and perhaps the world’s) guilt and compassion over the holocaust. But more non-Jewish than Jewish people were slaughtered by the horrors of Hitler’s Axis of evil during the same period; they were simply not slaughtered for “religious” or ethnic reasons.

But the Holocaust was, as Gandhi quite cogently put it, over a half century ago. To maintain a sense of “victimhood” and unrelenting defensive and offensive militance from 1938 through 2008 is reminiscent of the idiocy parodied by Mark Twain in Huckleberry Finn, where new comrade of the young protagonist is killed by a family foe in a feud the origins and reasons for which were no longer known.

The ouster of Gandhi for telling the truth of Israel’s perennially militant stand in the world is hypocritical at best, both from the standpoints of his affiliations with Rochester and the “On Faith” page of the Washington Post. Shame, shame on (all three of them): University of Rochester’s President , Joel Seligman and On-Faith’s Sally Quinn and Jon Meacham for disloyalty and cowardice beyond the call of duty.

I note that it’s no longer possible from the “main page” of the Washington Post “On Faith” blog even to scroll down to Gandhi’s January 7th commentary on Israel and the Jews. Readers of Michelle Boorstein’s January 26 coverage of Gandhi’s forced resignation have to research the matter of Gandhi’s so-called “anti Semitic” assertions indirectly by meandering through the plethora of principally Jewish protests currently bombarding the ramparts of the Post’s and University of Rochester’s blogs.

I don’t accuse Gandhi of cowardice, however. I think he retreated not because it was the “just” thing to do, but rather because it was the peaceful thing to do. He was true to his (and his grandfather’s) form and walking his walk. But having said that, I think his retreat and apology are both morally wrong and counter-productive in the cause of peace. Even the Dalai Lama in his book on happiness says that, even though it is essential to love your neighbors even when they are your enemies….sometimes it is necessary to do what is required to defend yourself and your loved ones from attack. I am herewith attempting to do for Arun Gandhi what he appears to be unwilling to do, justly, for himself.

The “On Faith” blog was purportedly established to create a clearing house and open forum for sharing eclectic and creative ideas and views on religion. To quote from Quinn’s and Meacham’s own mission statement, the purpose of the blog on which Gandhi expressed his views included: (the exchange of views ….)

“From the nature of evil to religious reformation, from the morality of fetal stem-cell research to the history of scripture, from how to raise kids in multi-faith households to the place of gays in traditional churches -- of the asking of questions, to paraphrase Ecclesiastes, there shall be no end.

Well, it appears that Gandhi has discovered that there in fact “shall be …an end”…that is a point at which free expressions of religious ideas are no longer found “tolerable”, either in the peaceful institution of his own foundation or among his allies in the media or University.

I detest, rebuke and renounce all those actions and expressions which have culminated in Arun Gandhi’s forced resignation from his position and candid quest for peace. This event smacks of fascistic theocracy and embodies the odiously-evolving of religious institutions in our collective midst in terms recently portrayed by Philip Pullman’s trilogy, “His Dark Materials” ( including, most recently, the movie, “The Golden Compass”). The University of Rochester, Gandhi Institute, and “On Faith” bloggers are all acting in concert as the evil and oppressive “Magisterium” in Pullman’s brilliant and prescient fictional accounting of a world progressively reducing itself to an oligarchy of fascistic religious fundamentalists--and a concomitant intellectual peasantry of masses afraid to oppose—or even to question them.

I am (the writer hereof) no more an anti-Semite than Arun Ghandhi is. And Arun Ghandhi is in no way or degree an anti-Semite. Being anti-Zionist is not being anti-Semite. Israel is a Zionist state. Zionism is a matter of unjustified and aggressive war and conquest based on religious mythology. Knowing and stating such truth does not make me an anti-Semite. Knowing and stating that Israel, with its American-manufactured and financed armaments is the most militant and aggressive state in the Middle East, having the greatest stockpile of weapons of mass –and minor—destruction does not make either me or Gandhi’s comments consonant with such truths…anti-Semitic.

The end of Arun Gandhi’s January 7th comments are essentially my own, and so I will close with them, primarily in order to cleanse them of the diluting taint of his subsequent –unwarranted--apology therefor.

Well, with your superior weapons and armaments and your attitude towards your neighbors would it not be right to say that you are creating a snake pit? How can anyone live peacefully in such an atmosphere? Would it not be better to befriend those who hate you? Can you not reach out and share your technological advancement with your neighbors and build a relationship?
Apparently, in the modern world, so determined to live by the bomb, this is an alien concept. You don't befriend anyone, you dominate them. We have created a culture of violence (Israel and the Jews are the biggest players) and that Culture of Violence is eventually going to destroy humanity.

Accordingly, about both the Jewish Holocaust and the martyrdom of anyone named Gandhi for telling the truth, I say the same thing—
NEVER AGAIN !

Robert R. Schoch*

*Robert R. (Dusty) Schoch
607 Overbrook Drive (parcels)
P.O. Box 5743 (letters; insured parcels)
High Point, NC 27262
Phone: (336) 887 3119
Fax: (336) 887 1227
E-Mail: Rschoch@triad.rr.com
Cell: (336) 847 4777
Robert R. (Dusty) Schoch is an attorney, inventor (author of Milton Bradley’s “Crack the Case”), designer (United Features Syndicate-licensed “Snoopy’s Dream Machines”) and manufacturer (D.C.S. International, Inc.), Inventor’s representative and broker of toys, games and other inventions (President and C.E.O. of I.D.E.A.S. , “Invention Design Enhancement And Sales”) and writer (novels, essays, screenplays) living in High Point, N.C. BA (English) degree, UNC Chapel Hill, JD (law) U. of Ala., Tuscaloosa. Dusty is founder and scribe of the B.E.A. (“Barristers et al”) a N.C.-based, politically-independent foreign policy think tank. He is also co-editor (foreign policy) of Democratswrite.com through the contact link of which readers are invited to correspond with him.

"Arun Gandhi spoke the truth about Jews..."

Nah, he's a stone-cold liar and a jew-hating clown...just like you are.

Arun Gandhi spoke the truth about Jews, who are the most self-centered and violent people on earth. Many agree with Mr. Gandhi but few will speak it for fear of being vilified and called "antisemitic or Jew hater. Moreover, Jews will simply deflect whatever message one is trying to convey by pointing the finger at someone else or pulling out the holocaust card.

Practically everyone knows that Israel has brought nothing but conflict, death, and destruction to the Middle East since its inception in 1948. Israel has use its protection under the US to commit atrocities and terrorize its arab neighbors by violated their border boundaries repeatedly, started pre-emptive wars, engaged in land theft, murder, and kidnapping.

Most recently, Israel devised a genocidal plan to blockade Gaza and cause mass deaths of many of the 1.5 million Palestinians through starvation, disease, lack of medical care, and violence. That plan was prevented by Hama, who breached the Egyptian Wall and allowed Palestinians to get necessities needed for survival.

Israel uses Gaza as a firing range with Palestinians as their targets, while Jews in the diaspora and the world remain silent. Yes, Arun Ghandi is right. Jews are the biggest players in the "global culture of violence" and will cause WWW3 if not stopped.

"palestine belongs to the arabs in same sense that england belong to the english"

No, Palestine belongs to Arab Muslims in the same sense that INDIA belonged to the English.

The Muslims in Palestine, Egypt, Turkey, etc. are foreign invaders, colonialists and imperialists just as the British were in India.

And, some of us want the same thing Gandhi wanted which is an end to the oppressive rule of Muslim imperialists (be they Arabs or not) in lands which rightly belong to Christians and Jews.

arun gandhi is an honest man and the illustrious name gandhi becmes him well saying "I STAND BEHIND MY CRITICISMS" his grand father taught him only too well. 70 years ago grand father wrote "if there ever could be a justifiable war in name of and for humanity, a war aginst germany to prevent the wanton persecution of a whole race, would be completly justified. but i do not blieve in war." written on november 20 1938 published november 26 1938 in the same article he wrote germany is showing to the world how efficiently violence can be worked when it is not hamperd by any hypocrisy or weakness masquerading as humanitarianism.it is also showing how hideous,terrible and terrifying it lookes in its nakedness.M K Gandhi published it in his own paper when world had the chance of preventing it. regarding palestin he wrote "palestine belongs to the arabs in same sense that england belong to the english or france to the french. it is wrong and inhuman to impose the jews on the arabs.what is going on today in palestine cannot be justified by any moral code of conduct.the mandates have no sanction but that of the last war. surely it would be acrime against humanity to reduce the proud arabs so that palestine can be restord to the jews partly or wholly as their national home." and "but according to the accepted canons of right and wrong,nothing can be said aginst the arab resistance in the face of overwhelming odds." "religious act cannot be performed with the aid of the bayonet or the BOMB." and "the jews who claime to be the chosen race prove their title by choosing the way of non-violence for vidicating their position on earth." all written and published in november 1938

It must be a full moon.

GOD SENT JESUS TO SACRIFICED HIS LIFE FOR THE PEOPLE OF CHRISTIANITY. TODAY THE CHIRISTIANS ARE DYING IN IRAQ, AFGHANISTAN AND ISRAEL FOR THE PEOPLE WHO KILLED THE JESUS.

MR. ARUN GANDHI YOU ARE RIGHT. YOU SHOULD NOT ASK APOLOGY.

The Longman Dictionnary of American English states terrorism as the illegal use (threats of) violence to obtain political demands. Even though the Hezbolla was created AFTER the Israeli invasion of south Lebanon, let's say it's a terrorist movement. Let's even say that he did a HUGE mistake by kidnapping two israeli soldiers in order to free 3 lebanese emprisonned for over 25 years in Israel.
Does this act in a way, give israel the LEGAL right to erase villages and banlieues in western beirut and in southern lebanon? Does it give Israel the LEGAL right to kill children and women because they claim that hizbolla gorillas are hiding behind civilians? Do they hide in an exposed van transporting children to shelters??
If this is not a LEGAL right, it is ILLEGAL. It's ILLEGAL to the eyes of every human being who cares for humanity. Then how can it be LEGAL to Mr Bush?? Are we witnessing the birth of MODERN TERRORISM

"The tragedy of the people of Palestine is that their country was "given" by a foreign power to another people for the creation of a new state. The result was that many hundreds of thousands of innocent people were made permanently homeless. With every new conflict their numbers increased. How much longer is the world willing to endure this spectacle of wanton cruelty? It is abundantly clear that the refugees have every right to the homeland from which they were driven, and the denial of this right is at the heart of the continuing conflict. No people anywhere in the world would accept being expelled en masse from their country; how can anyone require the people of Palestine to accept a punishment which nobody else would tolerate? A permanent just settlement of the refugees in their homeland is an essential ingredient of any genuine settlement in the Middle East".

The Europeans learnt their lesson; they became very suspicious of Zionist political affairs. At the same time we have to admit that the Americans have not yet learned theirs. The American people have not yet seen that a coalition with Israel puts their life at great risk. The American people fail to associate September 11th and the hopeless American support of Zionism. I assume the reason the American people fail to acknowledge such a straightforward connection can only be due to the fact that Zionist lobbies have managed to comprehensively dominate the major sources that control American public opinion: both in culture, in media and in finance. Ted Turner the owner of CNN, the world's leading TV news network had to go out of his way to persuade the Zionist lobbies that he was in a mental state when he 'mistakenly' referred to Israel as a "terrorist state". It is very apparent that Israel enjoys full protection in the American media. The question to be asked is who is going to protect the Americans from their motherland Israel?

The history of Zionism provides us with manifold stories of great empires that were misled in believing that coalition with the Jewish state will serve their own interests. In the long run those decisions proved to be unreasonable, irrational and even disastrous. The most famous one is probably the 'Balfour Declaration' (1917). It was in the midst of WW1 when the British foreign minister announced the empire's support for turning Palestine into the "national home for the Jewish people". At the time there were less than 60.000 Jews in Palestine leaving peacefully among a total population of 600.000 Arabs. What led the British Empire to such a strange declaration? What led the world leading superpower at the time to commit itself to such an unreasonable affair based on support from a marginal ethnic group (less than 10% of the entire population)? If there had been some deep colonial strategic or any other rational thought behind 'Balfour's declaration' they proved to be very misleading. Soon Jews flood into Palestine. Native Arab Palestinians start to show their severe dissatisfaction. Conflict becomes inevitable. When Britain tried to repair Balfour's damage it was too late ('The White Paper' 1939). The Jewish right wing terrorist and paramilitary resistance were about to teach the mandate forces a lesson in Yiddisher brutality. From a British point of view, the alliance with Zionism turned into a disaster. It was 2 years after the 2nd WW when the Zionist pushed the British colonial forces out of the region.

Already in the first Zionist congress, in Basel (1897), Herzl, the first and most famous Jewish Zionist, illustrated this method. According to Herzl, Zionism could promise redemption for the Jewish people as long as it fit into a larger colonial agenda of any of the greater colonial superpowers. Herzl himself travelled between the European political centres, promising full collaboration and support from the Jewish people in exchange for land in which to locate the Jewish state. This very basic motivation to associate with the world superpowers is an evident factor throughout the history of Zionism. Somehow, Zionists always volunteer to serve the colonial interests of any leading power. This fundamental tendency to join forces with superpowers led to an internal debate within the Zionist movement concerning the independence of the whole Zionist adventure. Since Zionism religiously presents itself as a devoted servant of larger colonial forces, it is not clear whether Zionism can possess any sense of autonomy.

These days when American policy makers endorse far right nationalistic views, the US administration reveals itself voluntarily as a major enemy of world peace, and the American president is searching desperately for new allies to form a coalition to support his phony 'war against terror', it is hardly surprising to discover that the Jewish state and Zionists lobbies are fairly active behind the scenes. It all makes far more sense when you find out that America's current divorce from humanism is closely associated with Israeli interests. A brief study of the history of Israel will reveal that from its very early days Zionism specialised in tracing dark political motivations and interests in order to abuse them to the very limit. Zionism is a very singular political method aimed at perfecting the transformation of world disasters and human pain into Jewish gain.

The Longman Dictionnary of American English states terrorism as the illegal use (threats of) violence to obtain political demands. Even though the Hezbolla was created AFTER the Israeli invasion of south Lebanon, let's say it's a terrorist movement. Let's even say that he did a HUGE mistake by kidnapping two israeli soldiers in order to free 3 lebanese emprisonned for over 25 years in Israel.
Does this act in a way, give israel the LEGAL right to erase villages and banlieues in western beirut and in southern lebanon? Does it give Israel the LEGAL right to kill children and women because they claim that hizbolla gorillas are hiding behind civilians? Do they hide in an exposed van transporting children to shelters??
If this is not a LEGAL right, it is ILLEGAL. It's ILLEGAL to the eyes of every human being who cares for humanity. Then how can it be LEGAL to Mr Bush?? Are we witnessing the birth of MODERN TERRORISM

"The tragedy of the people of Palestine is that their country was "given" by a foreign power to another people for the creation of a new state. The result was that many hundreds of thousands of innocent people were made permanently homeless. With every new conflict their numbers increased. How much longer is the world willing to endure this spectacle of wanton cruelty? It is abundantly clear that the refugees have every right to the homeland from which they were driven, and the denial of this right is at the heart of the continuing conflict. No people anywhere in the world would accept being expelled en masse from their country; how can anyone require the people of Palestine to accept a punishment which nobody else would tolerate? A permanent just settlement of the refugees in their homeland is an essential ingredient of any genuine settlement in the Middle East".

"Jewish identity Can't depend on Violence", it doesn',it depends on self-preservation,and it always has.The more I read about this Arun the less I like him,
This same Arun who was on hugging terms with Arafat.The same Arafat,the Palestinian who gave us suicide bombers,plane hijackings,a nasty murderous emebezler.Who died of complications from a disorder blood,(That is code for AIDS).

"We have created a culture of violence (Israel and the Jews are the biggest players)"

It's amazing that the Jews are the biggest players in the violence game when people like the Hutus, the Khmer Rouge, the Baathists and a bunch of others have killed so many more people.

Just to take one example, the Hutus are thought to have massacred 500,000-800,000 mostly unarmed civilians in three months in 1994, while the Israelis (fighting against various Arab states and Palestinian guerrillas/terrorists) have killed MAYBE a tenth that number in 60 years...but somehow, according to this fool, the Jews are the biggest players in the game of violence.

That statement is pure anti-semitic claptrap, and any paper that carries this idiot ought to be ashamed of itself.

I am a Pakistan-born naturalized US Citizen, yet I believe Mr. Gandhi should not apologize for his comments. It is clear that he is only speaking about the actions of the Israeli government and it's Zionist policies not of Jews in general. I agree that the creation of Israel in Palestine was a mistake and created problems not just for it's Jewish inhabitants, but also for the Arabs around it. Israelis and Jews should understand that there is a dislike for Israel that exists not only in the Arab world (which by the way includes Christians) but also in Europe as well as other parts of the world. This is a reality and it cannot just be reasoned away by calling everyone anti-semitic.

On the other hand, the reason for the delay in the formation of Palestine has as much to do with the neighbouring Arab States as Israel. The leaders of these states for their own survival have created a lot of the wars that have led to the growth of Israel's territory. If they had not been so stupid and focused on improving their own economies instead of building up armies, their own problems would have been minimized and there would be hope in the Muslim world rather than the hopelesness that exists because of a lack of political process.

Read bookd by Noam Chomsky "Hegemony Or Survival, America's Quest For Global Dominance", especially Chapters 2 and 7 (pp. 184-185) in order to understand Arun Gandhi comment against the vicious and brutal treatment of the Palistinians by the state of Israel. See today's headlines of Palistinians crossover in Gaza forced by the inhumane cut-off of supplies by Israel.

Read bookd by Noam Chomsky "Hegemony Or Survival, America's Quest For Global Dominance", especially Chapters 2 and 7 (pp. 184-185) in order to understand Arun Gandhi comment against the vicious and brutal treatment of the Palistinians by the state of Israel. See today's headlines of Palistinians crossover in Gaza forced by the inhumane cut-off of supplies by Israel.

And PS: Nonviolence can only be a creed for those who intend to coexist with the "others" whom they don't agree with. Nonviolence is of no use to those who have no intention of coexisting with the other, rather they have the intention of destroying and wiping out the existence of the other as in the Israeli-American-Arab equation. One needs to recognise that and let them do so(wipe each other out).

Mr Gandhi
If you criticise the state of Israel's policies, you are anti-Semitic, even if these policies directly affect you personally. Similarly if you criticise the state of Pakistan's policies, you are anti-Muslim even if these policies directly affect you personally.

Another thing common is the 60 year old pandering by the West of the elite of these two states which has allowed these elite to think they can boss around and threaten anyone anywhere.

Excuse my language, but you are an idiot to think that the triumphalists among Israelis, Americans and Arabs care to act on any humanist principle - they are all engaged in unbridled quests for power. Instead of taking responsibility for stating the truth and working for any rational solution among them, you need to remain detached and let them fight and kill each other. That is what they intend to do anyway.

What a fantastic opportunity wasted by JDL and other Israeli lobbyists. Instead of explaining their viewpoint and furthering their cause they went for Gandhi's unpaid job.

Also Gandhi in his 70s probably glad to retire anyway.

It would be a shame if his blog here is made to retire too by pressure tacticians!

Long live the Gandhian ideals!

well said sanjaya yogi

It is refreshing to hear another legitimate point of view. It never ceases to amaze me that whenever someone gives a candid and informed opinion that is contrary to the western information machine, they have to resign or go away. The western gurus claimed for years that Arafat was the obstacle to peace; so how long has Arafat died? So what's the excuse for the so-called intelletuals of the West? It would seem to me that we would keep manufacuring excuses! Ghandi's "snakepit" analogy is much more telling than the self-righteous west would ever want to acknowlege!

Your phrasing was indeed unfortunate, inappropriate even. The holocaust is among the most profound events in human history. Trivializing it is sure to trample on the sorrow of survivors and their families.

Modern day Israel, through its occupation of Palestine, does risk undermining its own long term security, even as the US' occupation of Iraq risks undermining its long term security.

While both Jews and Palestinians have legitimate grievances only when both, yes both, parties agree to lay those down and discuss hard compromises will peace be realized.

As someone who is familiar with both Arun Gandhi's and his grandfather's writings and positions on the role of truth and violence and the appropriate response to individual and collective abuses of human rights, I fully support the courage of Arun Gandhi to state what is clearly an unpopular position regarding Israel's (as a country) use of force against both Palestine, and it's own citizens. While Israel is not alone in its use of violence, the United States and many others follow similar policies in the pursuit of liberty and freedom for their citizens, its attacks on Palestine in self defense, remind me of invasions that apartheid South Africa made into other African countries in the name of self defense. When will the violence end? What will it take? When will countries and individuals respect the rights of all individuals to the pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness?

Reject all violence and tear down walls, and listen with respect to other points of view, there is some truth to be discovered and shared! The role of people like Arun Gandhi is to help poke at the problems and provoke discussion. He certainly did this, resigning in the face of the criticism does not negate the truth of his position.

Juninho,

The only reason Israel is supplying weapons to India is because of Pakistan. My enemy's enemy is my best friend. And Israel is trying its best to create trouble between the two countries.

According to a Rabbi in Goa, who is trying to get the run-away hippie Jewish population in Goa come back to Israel, India is the "lowest of the low in the whole world". That is apparently because of your idol worship.

Good Luck with your friendship with Israel!

While poorly worded, Arun Gandhi has a point. Israel is holding onto terrority and basically colonizing terrority through the settlements, and in doing so have created a very extreme situation in the middle east. Also, American Jewish Lobbying groups like the Anti-defamation League really do push the American gov't to take a pro-Israeli stance - and if you look at the war on terrorism, it's roots really are the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

So say Israel is only defending itself isn't true when new settlements are being built.

And I also think Jews are a bit over-sensitive. Jews are not a discriminated against group - not nearly as any other minority group compared to other minorities such as blacks or gays. Yet somehow criticism of Israeli policy or Jewish attitudes get this guy to be called a bigot whereas much worse is said about others and it's usually laughed off.

If a comic cracks an indian joke doing a funny accent, it's funny. But if it's about a jew and the comic isn't jewish, then he's a bigot.

I just think there's a double standard here and the ADL needs to loosen up a bit. And I do think that this over-sensitivity and the way we see so many museums about the holocaust and museums and such, yet you never see much done about the suffering of Africans, the holocaust of the Chinese by the Japanese, nor many of the other horrible evils. I think it would serve the ADL's interest is it expanded it's work to remind the world of all racism and bigotry, and not just focus on what people do perceive as many Jews waving the holocaust as something as a means to entitlement or special consideration of sympathy.

I mean, that's the reality out there - you can't deny it or not, but really, if people find that anti-semetic, then most of the world is indeed anti-semitic and maybe that should be analyzed why that is.

MaryAdrianna,

Will they survive the second coming of Christ? He will return to defeat the Anti-Christ.

Just a honest suggestion. You can go to the Israel / Palestine border and stay there with a message of peace. I am sure world would really appreciate your efforts.

If you can't do that, then it is important not to pass such comments- only to apologize later.

You should not have apologized for speaking the truth and the good and sincere advice that you are giving to the Jews for free. God bless you.

Shame on all of you. Shame on the Board and the President of the U of R for accepting the resignation of Mr. Gandhi. I'm wondering if his hand wasn't forced for his resignation not because of what he wrote, and maybe it wasn't properly worded, but that the President of the U of R is Jewish himself. Was it a personal attack on Mr. Gandhi?
IF, you all had actually taken the time to understand what Mr. Gandhi was trying to get across was NOT an attack on the Jews, but that peace should be spread across the world, and using the Holocust as an example may have not been the best example, but it was his example of the horrible acts committed around the world with violence. He is FOR Peace. IF anyone of you had done your research on Mr. Gandhi you would see how he is for Peace and against the violence in this world. SHAME SHAME SHAME on each and every one of you who have personally attacked Mr. Gandhi. What ever happen to Freedom of speech? What happened to Freedom of the Press? Don't we live in America? You are all attacking him for the right to express his own opinion. Whether right or wrong, it is HIS opinion. Maybe it wasn't expressed in the brightest of manners, but it was done. It was done and the Washington Post posed it. SO WHAT! What is the matter with you people.
Mr. President of the U of R, states: "A fundamental value of the University of Rochester is a commitment to diversity and inclusiveness. We welcome and support all who teach, study, learn, or work here. Our commitment to diversity and inclusiveness occurs simultaneously with our fundamental commitment to the value of ideas and of free speech."
But then again in another paragraph states: "Arun Gandhi's January 7 statement in the Washington Post's "On Faith" blog did not reflect the core values of the University of Rochester or the values of the M.K. Gandhi Institute itself. Under the circumstances, I believe that Arun Gandhi's resignation was appropriate."
So what is it Mr. Pres? Do you use the statement that your school is committed to diversity and freedom of speech, but on the other hand, accept Mr. Gandi's resignation.
There's something wrong with that statement. You either are for Freedom of Speech, or you're not. Which one is it?
If Mr. Gandhi was the president of the M.K. Gandhi Institute for Nonviolence, and you state he was not a member of our faculty or of our staff, then why prosecute him for his opinion?
You all who have wrote such viol comments about Mr. Gandhi should be ashamed of yourselves. ESPECIALLY those of you of Jewish descent. Shame Shame Shame.

Well a victim has been claimed, Arun's resignation has been accepted by nonviolence institute he heads. It seems right to criticise a certain lobby is a big no no.

I am truly appalled by the personal attacks, that have crossed all boundaries of civility, on Mr. Arun Gandhi, and in some cases, by implication, on his grandfather. This is particularly painful to watch especially when one is familiar with both the man and his work. Allegations have been made of Arun riding on his grandfather's coattails and of living off his esteemed name. Nothing can be further from the truth. I was actively involved in raising funds for the relocation of the M.K. Gandhi Institute to Rochester, NY. When we encountered difficulties in attracting corporate sponsorship for a fund raiser, we asked Arun to use his famous heritage to solicit donations. In declining to do so, he narrated an event from his childhood that, I believe, speaks volumes about his values and his integrity. He recalled that one day his grandfather, Mahatma Gandhi, gathered all his sons (including Arun's father), and extracted a promise from each one of them that they would never –no matter how dire the personal or societal or national circumstances were - ever capitalize on his name or fame. To this day, he said, he has lived by that credo. I have no reason to suspect otherwise nor should anyone else. His views and writings may not be beyond reproach but his integrity definitely is.

For those of you who write the Jewish people are violent and revengeful, you are simply denying the truth of the situation. How many wars have been declared in the name of Islam and Christianity---Countless. How many wars can you think of that have been declared in the name of the jews? The difference is amazing. The world continues to blame the jews for the world's problems. Perhaps all those spiteful people should stop concentrating on the actions of other religions and realize the autrocities being committed in the name of their own.

For those of you who write the Jewish people are violent and revengeful, you are simply denying the truth of the situation. How many wars have been declared in the name of Islam and Christianity---Countless. How many wars can you think of that have been declared in the name of the jews? The difference is amazing. The world continues to blame the jews for the world's problems. Perhaps all those spiteful people should stop concentrating on the actions of other religions and realize the autrocities being committed in the name of their own.

For those of you who write the Jewish people are violent and revengeful, you are simply denying the truth of the situation. How many wars have been declared in the name of Islam and Christianity---Countless. How many wars can you think of that have been declared in the name of the jews? The count is immesurable.

The comments made by Mr. Ghandi are not only offensive but ignorant as well. As a student at the University of Rochester, where Mr. Ghandi was, until today, the Chairman of the M.K. Ghandi Institute for Nonviolence, I have had the opportunity to hear Mr. Ghandi speak several times.

To belittle the suffering of the Jewish people is both offensive and inconsiderate. He makes these comments as if anti-semitism is dead, and is not still preached around the world. He encourages Israel to reach out and make peace with its neighbors, when most of its neighbors do not recognize Israel's right to exist. What country, with any interst in survival, would not arm itself when in its 59 year history has been involved in 6 wars, all bwith its neighbors. This excludes the continuing attacks from rebels in the area.

I cannot say that I support the actions of the Israeli government, but Mr. Ghandi's view of the situation is utterly indefensable. I hope that Israel will strive to make peace, but Israel has not been the party preventing peace in the past, it is her neighbors.

I am proud of my University for accepting and essentially forcing Mr. Ghandi's resignation and ending his association with our school. No longer will he be allowed to use our good name and the pretense of non-violence to preach hatred and intolerance. Shame on you Mr. Ghandi, your anti-semitism is rampant and unacceptable.

Mr Arun knows that with enough trust,pigs actually fly quite nicely.

DEAR SIRS

IT IS WITH GREAT CONCERN THAT I HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING ARUN GANDHI'S STANDING IN ROCHESTER AND THE NATION. MY CONCERN ARISES FROM THE APPARENT WILLINGNESS OF MANY TO SUMMARILY REJECT HIS RECENT STATEMENT AS RACIST WITHOUT MUCH EFFORT AT DIALOGUE.

IF SOMEONE QUESTIONS THE FACT THAT THE JEWISH PEOPLE ARE USING THE HOLOCAUST TOO FREQUENTLY, WHY IS THAT RACIST? IT SEEMS TO ME MOST PEOPLE REFER TO THAT TRAGEDY IN ORDER TO AVOID ITS REPETITION. THE ONLY TIME IN MY MEMORY WHERE THAT WAS AN EFFECTIVELY DONE WAS WHEN THE REMARKABLE ELIE WEISEL, REFERRING TO THE HOLOCAUST, PUBLICLY CASTIGATED BILL CLINTON FOR NOT STOPPING THE GENOCIDE IN THE FORMER YUGOSLAVIA. SHORTLY THEREAFTER (BUT STILL FOUR YEARS TOO LATE) CLINTON SENT IN THE PLANES.

WHERE WERE THE SIMILAR VOICES OF DISSENT ABOUT RWANDA AND SOMALIA? WHERE WERE THEY WHEN ARIEL SHARON BUTCHERED PALESTINIAN INNOCENTS? WHERE ARE THEY NOW REGARDING DARFUR?

MY POINT IS THAT ONE INVOKES THE HOLOCAUST TO PREVENT A RECURRENCE. THAT HASN'T WORKED WELL. OVER REFERENCING IT CAN SEEM SELF SERVING AND THERBY HAVE A NEGATIVE EFFECT.

I THINK MR GANDHI BROUGHT UP A LEGITIMATE TOPIC FOR DISCUSSION

BERNARD MCCULLEN

DEAR SIRS

IT IS WITH GREAT CONCERN THAT I HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING ARUN GANDHI'S STANDING IN ROCHESTER AND THE NATION. MY CONCERN ARISES FROM THE APPARENT WILLINGNESS OF MANY TO SUMMARILY REJECT HIS RECENT STATEMENT AS RACIST WITHOUT MUCH EFFORT AT DIALOGUE.

IF SOMEONE QUESTIONS THE FACT THAT THE JEWISH PEOPLE ARE USING THE HOLOCAUST TOO FREQUENTLY, WHY IS THAT RACIST? IT SEEMS TO ME MOST PEOPLE REFER TO THAT TRAGEDY IN ORDER TO AVOID ITS REPETITION. THE ONLY TIME IN MY MEMORY WHERE THAT WAS AN EFFECTIVELY DONE WAS WHEN THE REMARKABLE ELIE WEISEL, REFERRING TO THE HOLOCAUST, PUBLICLY CASTIGATED BILL CLINTON FOR NOT STOPPING THE GENOCIDE IN THE FORMER YUGOSLAVIA. SHORTLY THEREAFTER (BUT STILL FOUR YEARS TOO LATE) CLINTON SENT IN THE PLANES.

WHERE WERE THE SIMILAR VOICES OF DISSENT ABOUT RWANDA AND SOMALIA? WHERE WERE THEY WHEN ARIEL SHARON BUTCHERED PALESTINIAN INNOCENTS? WHERE ARE THEY NOW REGARDING DARFUR?

MY POINT IS THAT ONE INVOKES THE HOLOCAUST TO PREVENT A RECURRENCE. THAT HASN'T WORKED WELL. OVER REFERENCING IT CAN SEEM SELF SERVING AND THERBY HAVE A NEGATIVE EFFECT.

I THINK MR GANDHI BROUGHT UP A LEGITIMATE TOPIC FOR DISCUSSION

BERNARD MCCULLEN

I believe Mr. Gandhi realizes that making a comparison to Jewish people during the Holocaust and those a part of the current situation is WAY OFF base, hence his apology. I agree with Victoria that most American Jewish people dis-accosiate their beliefs and practices with many in Israel. Mr. Ghandhi should not be forced to resign.

No more passive resistance
He is out to kick some butt,Jewish butt
He is one bad mother you don't want to mess with.
Feed him steaks very rare.

As an Indian, I am ashamed by Mr. Gandhi's original comments...

FACT:
India has become one of the largest customers of Israeli weapons, with purchases now in the billions of dollars annually...

Mr. Gandhi, if you insinuate that Israel spreads violence through weapons exports, are you also willing to state that India is complicit in this violence through its purchases of Israeli weapons?

If you condemn Israel, then you have to condemn India for its purchases of Israeli weapons, if not, you are a hypocrite...

Israeli's live in a neighbourhood that is inhabited by carnivores,being a sheep in this kind of a neighbourhood,guarantees you a very short shelf life.

This isn't an apology at all. Gandhi 'apologises' then immediately goes on talk about how Jews 'hold on to historic grievances too firmly it can lead to bitterness and the loss of support from those who would be friends.' I believe that he is being disingenuous in backtracking on his previous post - doing so moe for show than his eral belief.

Why is it that a person's last name can give them a free pass to say the most outrageous anf bigotted things if a predecessor - 2 generations back in this case - was a hitoric figure of peace. Henry Ford was a raving anti-Semite but his grandson, who ran Ford, was just the opposite. Just because Mahatma Gandhi was a fount of tolerance, why do we assume his grandson is?

Isn't this incident a perfect time to implement a world-wide movement of nonviolence and reconciliation?

After war, there is usually amnesty and rebuilding. Should the people of the world wait for the war to occur? Should there be death and destruction first? Or could there be a proactive initative? This incident offers a great opportunity.

What element could bring people together? What is the common denominator between people and societies? Through research, I have found that the children are the common denominator. Therefore, would it make sense for the world to focus on working for common elements to solve problems, rather than focusing on the differences? Would it show that the people desire to solve their problems nonviolently?

I propose a "Global Strategy of Nonviolence, For the Children." Would it be logical to teach the children of today nonviolence works? Would it be a lesson for the children of the future to see the efforts of the past? The children would be the focus for conflict resolution and most importantly of all, the focus for all of humanity to create programs for the children as a societal priority!

How could an initiative be implemented? What catalyst could be promoted to create awareness of an initiative? What will bring a feeling of security that the movement is for everyone and create unity? My research has found that the best representative of nonviolence, but not perfect, is women. Are women socialized to be less violent than men? Would that give women an advantage?

From the website, What Would Gandhi Do:
GANDHI ON WOMAN
Woman is more fitted than man to make exploration and take bolder action in nonviolence... There is no occasion for women to consider themselves subordinate or inferior to men....Woman is the companion of man, gifted with equal mental capacity....If by strength is meant moral power, then woman is immeasurably man's superior....If nonviolence is the law of our being, the future is with women....

Women and nonviolence would be a formidable force for change. A Global Strategy of Nonviolence, For the Children, is designed as a people movement, to be led by women, but not exclusive to women. It is be implemented by a "Call to Women, a World-Wide Unity Campaign.

Do people want change? Change will require sacrifice and dedication. There will be many risks. Will people risk personal comforts and their safety for the sake of others? Does the plan transcend religious, national, ideological boundaries? Would men be interested and support an initiative of nonviolence, for the children, led by women?

There are thousands of organizations conducting wonderful humanitarian work in the world. Would it not be wonderful if they were in the mainstream, instead of on the fringes?

I am a man, a person, that believes in the Cultural Transformation theory from the Chalice and the Blade, written by Riane Eisler.

Research and supportive information for the theories of the children, women, and nonviolence
is available for review. For more information and review of the plans and status of a Global Strategy of Nonviolence, please write to Andre Sheldon at: calltowomen@rcn.com.

Peace and Love,
Andre

I am thinking of Lions. We hunt them, rob the young of their mothers, and call it a sport. Then we cage them, so people can come and taunt them. One day the terrorist lion rips out the arm of one of us. Who's at fault? the lion. We destroy it.
See if you can find a parallel.
History will acquit the Palestinians; it will never acquit Israel or its supporters. Apartheid will live in infamy for generations, but Mandela is no longer a terrorist. He's a saint.
The day this game started, the result was decided.
Palestinians 1, Israel 0.
Game over.
A moral defeat for the chosen ones who made a mockery of "Thou shalt not kill"

When the IDF bombs civilians and Israel makes the population suffer for the actions of Hamas, it is holding all Palestinians accountable. When Jews defend all Israeli actions unequivocally, they too are fully responsible for every single murder committed by Israel (including non-combatants). Those high on power should not forget that the axiom of "live by the sword, die by the sword" applies to both parties. It's sad that those who suffered so terribly at the hands of oppressors (Nazis) have grown into the same monstrous killing machine (yes there are obvious differences, but who cares, killing is killing). And more sad is that these educated and learned people (unlike the wretched Palestinians) are prostituting their intellect, and playing with words on this forum to defend Israeli atrocities in the name of self-defense.

Mr. Gandhi may have erred in judging jewish sensitivities on the issue, but he still has freedom to speak his mind.

And yes, he really is following in his grandfather's footsteps by reminding the civilisation the virtues of forgiveness.

And no I'm not Jewish,just someone who is sick of
anorexic,sanctimonous,pecksniffian,phony two-faced,
holy-men,who use their family name to publish this piffle,arrogantly thinking that they won't get pulled up on it.

Violence was started by Spaniards in 1492 then by Anglo Saxons and lastly through Balfour declaration and the summary is violence was started by illegal White European Illegal Immigrants. They have stolen 4 continents and lately Palestine besides occupying whole World.

Gee, how wishy-washy of you. When Hamas stops firing rockets into southern Israeli townships, those that are theirs BY RIGHT and were not "taken" from the Palestinians, then there will be a path to peace, and not before. Hamas always incites the violence, not the other way around. And no, I'm not Jewish.

Arun Gandhi's apology must be appreciated. He has acknowledge that some of his words were the reason for misunderstanding.

Justice must be the foundation for bringing lasting peace and in that idea, all nations, individuals must be measured with specific acts.

I would like to make a correction, when some one refers to a group, they need to make sure it is addressed to a specific group within the group and not the entire population.

http://www.foundationforpluralism.com/Articles/TheIsraelLobby_and_theLawofKarma.asp

The Israel lobby started out with a legitimate need; to protect and defend Israel’s right to exist.

Power is corruptive, and the lobby is no exception to that. In their enthusiasm and their ability to influence the President, Senate and the house, they have gone far off bringing diminishing returns. For every two steps they take, they will have to back at least one, and if they still don’t get it, the law of karma takes over and they may have to back peddle several steps to catch up with the eternal act of balancing.

The Law of Karma is simply based on the idea that for every good you do, you gain positive energy that is nourishing and brings peace to oneself and to what surrounds him/herself. Where as, for every bad action, you loose your moral ground as well as your energy. There is a payback and trade off for every thing that is not just.

Mike Ghouse
www.MikeGhouse.net

Mr Ghandhi,

I didn't make it through many of the negative responses. It is sad that so many are callous or blind to the suffering of their fellow human beings. There is no justification for treating people the same as they were in the Holocaust. No rational mind can look at the Palestinians and think any differently. They are victims of a Holocaust too.

I have often been called anti-semtic for point out the same concept. It even seems dangerous for Israel to only count it's victims of WWII, when millions more were murdered by the war.

It is sad that so many who scream racism can in the next breath justify the treatment of Arabs by Israel.

Can you say hypocrite?

Oppression is wrong, no matter who is the oppressor and who is the victim. And history is ripe with the oppressed throwing off those chains, because what else do they have to lose? It is a dangerous position they have placed themselve. And screaming anti-semite at honorable people who try and offer an objective viewpoint won't work forever.

Personally, I find it vile that even one American dollar helps this current Holocaust exist. As an Irish-American, I will say it again. Oppression is wrong.

Thank you, for trying to shine light on a horribly dark situation. We all know, not all Jewish people are blind to this horror. They know Israel was born utilizing terror. And it is logical that the Palestinians would follow their path to gain their promised country as well.

Hopefully, the others can realize there is no peaceful future. Unless they deal with their past by treating their brothers/neighbors with honor...in the present.

No justice....no peace.

Carrie

The senior Gandhi suffered terribly from bad breath(must run in the family).A super callused fragile mystic hexed by halitosis
In real life,Gandhi drank his own urine,admired Hitler,and denied his wife medicine for a treatable disease.She died.

It is typical of the current violent culture that the negative responses encourage retaliation against Arun Gandhi. Off with his head. There is passive violence and there is physical violence. I am disappointed that the Washington Post buckled under and negatively apologized.

Arun gandhi is cool.

We love you Mr.Gandhi.

Ignore some of the angry jews. Many at time these people are mad at someone or the other. The trademark of these folks is violent and revengeful people.

Ignore their ranting and ravings. God bless you and your work.

Dont worry about pressue. If the jews drive you out. We will back you financially and publically.

Your a great man.

Arun Gandhi states the Jews hold too firmly to the holocaust. When at least one nation threatens to wipe Israel off the map and too few nations protest, it is clear the world has not yet learned from the holocaust.

A claim that Israel is the fomentor of violence and armed conflict shows a lack of Israel's history of having to defend themselves from the armies of all its neighbors. Gandhi wants Israel to forgive and forget while living amongst people who continue to incite hatred and teach lies about the Jews and Israel.
No other victor of multiple wars have tried to sue for peace as Israel has only to be rejected. No other nation facing thousands of rockets fired on its civilian population is accused of violence as it seeks to counter attack those responsible.

Those accusations can only come from someone who is either ignorant or afflicted by blind prejudice.

Arun Gandhi states the Jews hold too firmly to the holocaust. When at least one nation threatens to wipe Israel off the map and too few nations protest, it is clear the world has not yet learned from the holocaust.

A claim that Israel is the fomentor of violence and armed conflict shows a lack of Israel's history of having to defend themselves from the armies of all its neighbors. Gandhi wants Israel to forgive and forget while living amongst people who continue to incite hatred and teach lies about the Jews and Israel.
No other victor of multiple wars have tried to sue for peace as Israel has only to be rejected. No other nation facing thousands of rockets fired on its civilian population is accused of violence as it seeks to counter attack those responsible.

Those accusations can only come from someone who is either ignorant or afflicted by blind prejudice.

When has any person of Israel ever apologized to Russia or any country in Eastern Europe for the heavy and well-documented involvement of Jews in the Bolshevik takeover of Russia?

(See Yuri Slezkine's "The Jewish Century" for details- available on Amazon.)

When has any person of Israel ever apologized to Russia or any country in Eastern Europe for the heavy and well-documented involvement of Jews in the Bolshevik takeover of Russia?

(Yuri Slezkine's "The Jewish Century"- available
on Amazon.)

Praise God (or Allah) literally, for Judaism is not the same as Zionism, although many, many Jews tragically are finding it enormously difficult to disavow the policies of Israel. When they do, they might support a free and independent secular state in Palestine. Until then, they are linked to an immoral, violent enterprise that must erase history in order to be able to live with itself. The Zionist venture from the start set out to dispossess the Palestinians of Palestine. The conflict began, not when Jews immigrated to Palestine, but when they immigrated intending to dominate and subsequently to dispossess.

mr gandhi falls for the familiar trap into which all "exerting liberals" in india fall for - hating the victim especially if the agressor is relentless

simple question

if israel had been destroyed would anybody be speaking a word against any arab or muslim nation?

israel is defending itself - its options were and are always limited

are any tears shed for the ethnic cleansing in pakistan , bangladesh and other muslim nations?

muslims have no qualms about killing any one - the doers simply cite koran and the rest are silent - the cycle repeats endlessly and like entropy islamic dominance always increases

why not the muslim nations say they will want a new world where everyone is happy and all religions will be equal and women will have freedom to choose their garb or partner etc

mr gandhi, start thinking by examining your own inner fears and compulsions to be a liberal or worse, to be respected as a liberal

Washington Post should not have deleted this article since it makes it necessary for those of us who want to quote it to go to other sites which may or may not properly quote the whole article. Like a lot of people who do not write frequently on these issues, Mr. Gandhi's language may have been imprecise. But his apology spells out he meant no ill intent and those who call for his dismissal from his position are way out of bounds.

You say that you meant no anti-semitism to Jews... but you clearly say that Jews are responsible for the majority of today's violence.... Hello, is there a Jewish Al Qaeda, a Jewish Jemaah Islamiyah, a Jewish PKK, a Jewish FARC, etc...that I don't know about?? Was it the Jews that blew up the WTF Building in Oklahoma or the Twin Towers/Pentagon on 9-11? Are the Jews responsible for the problems that India is facing in Kashmir? Are we responsible for the massacres in Darfur? Were we responsible for Rwanda? What about Somalia, Ethiopia, and the recent problems Turkey is having with the PKK? What about the violence in Southern Thailand?

The Arab-Israeli conflict is but one of many "violences" in the world. To put it all on Jews...to say the responsiblity for the world's violence lies in one people or one conflict... that's hate. Hate from the bottom of one's heart.

I would never presume to link Hinduism to the ethnic, religious, class and caste-based problems that India faces. Please do not do the same to Judaism.

As an Indian I would like people to know that many Indians feel betrayed by Gandhi and his grandfather. However, this article of his is no more an expression of anti-semitism than the pro-muslim agenda of his grandfather's was anti-Hindu. What it does tell us, however, is that the Gandhis stand for and uniformly apply the principle of non-violence no matter what common sense and reason tells them in different contexts. India took their advice and paid for it dearly. Now they would like Israel to do the same.

Contrary to what Mr Gandhi says, I am always amazed at how forgiving of the Germans, the Jews seem to be. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict does appear intractable but I dont see how the Palestinians and the meddling Arabs and Iranians can be absolved of their role in it. Would merely befriending the Palestinians permanently solve the problem as Mr. Gandhi suggests? I dont think so. At some point in the future, when it becomes more favorable, many Palestinian and Israeli Arabs will also demand that the Jews either convert or allow it (Islam) to dominate Israeli national life. This can be safely predicted based on realities in India, Pakistan, Malaysia etc.

Unfortunately, Mr Arun Gandhi is taking a stance that is quite familiar to most Indians. Indeed, it was his grandfather Mahatma Gandhi who wrote to Churchill asking him to give up England and its 'fair lands', and all their possessions to Hitler's advancing forces, in the name of non-violence. It was also Mahatma Gandhi who wanted that the Hindus in India forsake almost everthing and compromise with the muslims for non-violence to be the dominant ideal. The eventual result of such irrationality was that muslim leaders hardened their stances and only demanded more in the form of a separate homeland (Pakistan) whose creation was opposed but could not be prevented even by Gandhi.

A fair and lasting solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict cannot therefore be found by following the naive assumptions and inflexible principles that Mr Arun Gandhi (and his grandfather) stand for.

"The Jewish community has played off the holocaust to gain land(Israel) and to make their war (Israel vs. Pakistan) the right thing" [Joe]

Are you a complete retard, or perhaps a visitor from another planet? Since when was Israel ever at war with Pakistan? You seem as ill-informed, and as bigoted, as Arun Gandhi.

Arun Gandhi does not need to apologize for his comments. Mr. Gandhi has simply stated the truth. The Jewish community has played off the holocaust to gain land(Israel) and to make their war (Israel vs. Pakistan) the right thing. Arun Gandhi should not apologize to a society that has been blinded from the truth by a Jewish run society.

Like his grandfather before him, who wanted the Jews to let themselves be killed by the Germans, Arun Gandhi is either an antisemite or an ignoramus of the first degree...

As to his singling out Israel and Jews as violent in a world where millions of people are killed for their beliefs or ethnicity (Cambodia, Rwanda, Bosnia, Kenya...) it shows the unhealthy obsession of the so-called pacifist left with the Jews... Well the zi in Nazi stand for socialism.

Oh, please- those of you who claim you understand the column and that Jews can't be condemned. Well, if you understand someone who says that Jews and Israel are the main players in the world's culture of violence - you obviously know nothing of what goes on everyday in the world. If you did, you would know that most of the violence in the world has nothing to do with Jews or Israel and that Jews and Israel are condemned every day. Do we respond- yes? We write, we call, we vote. We don't riot or kill other Jews at prayer or our neighbors because they believe or speak differently. To the moron who said Arabs are singled out(just the opposite-everyone bends over backwards not to offend them)- okay- you want non-Arab violence- How about the junta in Burma , how about Darfur(well, Arabs do play their part there), violence in South America.

Let me simplify things for you idiots who are supportive of Sturmbannfuher Ghandi's rights to say what he likes - even though you yourself are not vile anti-semites

( to the actual anti-semites commenting here - and there are plenty! - go and ^&*(% yourselves )

Now understand - the reason Ghandi is saying the jews and their culture is "the source of violence" is because he understands the jews are not actually a threat to him or his country - while the muslims most definately are!

It is a cheap and easy shot - throw the Yids to the wolves - and hope it makes "them" ( the muslims dope ) like you a little better.

Don't you all get it - thats why the Europeans are all so supportive of the Pali's

Its something to agree on - "we hate the Jews too! - so leave us alone"

The idea that it is Israel and/or judaism that is the source of voilent instability in this world is pure anti-semitism and ignorance at its finest

It seems to me that there is violence and danger bewtween the jews and their muslim neighbors...like it exists between americans and muslims, and russians and muslims, and indonesians and muslims and...Indians like Herr Ghandi and...MUSLIMS

Of course this is unacceptable to say - Ghandi would earn a Fatwa and condemnation in all the smart circles in Europe and the US - and what for - to stand up for some jews! No Way!

Must be respected, even if the speaker disagrees with someone's opinion.
This is an OnFaith blog- and it seems all faiths have been roundly criticized, except Judaism is always off limits.

I did not interpret Mr. Gandhi's comments as offensive or derogatory toward the Jewish people. No rational person disputes that the Holocaust was horrendous, although it certainly is not the only such horrendous act in human history. However, it is time to put it on the historic shelf as man has done with other genocides and move on. More people agree with Mr. Gandhi's remarks than many realize. They remain quiet in today's politically correct climate whereas those who disagree speak up loudly. I commend Mr. Gandhi's courage to voice his thoughts. He should not be required to resign because he exercised his freedom of speech.

I felt it important to post a comment...when reading your comments I felt I understood what you were trying to say and the true meaning behind your words. I did not feel that your intention was to offend or disregard the importance of the horrific tragedy of the Holocaust. Rather, that you were encouraging and imploring the Jewish people to look forward and not back...to take what happened in history and learn from it and move forward toward peace and healing.
Thank you.

Isn't this the same Gandhi that was featured in Penn and Teller's Bullsh!t episode talking about how Grandpa was sleeping with under-aged girls to test his libido and increase his virility? Just like Grandpa, anti-Semitism must run in the family.

It's a shame too, with a common enemy such as Islamic Fundamentalism, Arun would rather sacrifice Israel and the Jews to evil, rather than confront it. Maybe he thinks the Islamic Fundamentalists will react like the British did to Grandpa. Talking about people who are stuck in the past.... sheesh. Arun, you and your appeasement mentality make me sick.

It angers me greatly that the Arabs seem to be singled out. Both sides are at fault. Prior offenses toward the Jews do not provide excuse enough to condone violence. Scrolling down the page, there is an astonishing number of comments defending Jews, and not a single one defending Palestine. There are always two sides to an issue. Anyone who attempts to convince you otherwise is an ignorant fool.

Reading through the article, it appears to me that Ghandi has been misquoted. Read in full, he does not seem to bear any anti-semitic tendencies. Why is it that when Jewish people are prodded they attack others so vehemently? This is the question the writer was trying to pose. It is a serious one. Of course, the Palestinians, Russians, Americans, and a great number of countries would respond in the same matter. That does not make it the proper way to proceed.

I also realize that Jewish people do not all act this way. However, there is a disproportionate amount, or so it seems from the comments below.

This person Arun Gandhi is not a Hindu. He is a Dhimmi - someone whose soul has been subjugated by Islam, and who has lost all good sense.

He is reflecting the same criminal behaviour displayed by his grandfather MK Gandhi - who tried to stop the Hindu's from protecting themselves when they were being massacred by the muslims in 1947.

Hindu's and Jews are friends and allies fighting a common enemy. That common enemy is fundamental islam.

This person Arun Gandhi is not a Hindu. He is a Dhimmi - someone whose soul has been subjugated by Islam, and who has lost all good sense.

He is reflecting the same criminal behaviour displayed by his grandfather MK Gandhi - who tried to stop the Hindu's from protecting themselves when they were being massacred my the muslims in 1947.

Hindu's and Jews are friends and allies fighting a common enemy. That common enemy is fundamental islam.

This person Arun Ganhi is not a Hindu. He is a Dhimmi - someone whose soul has been subjugated by Islam, and who has lost all good sense.

He is reflecting the same criminal behaviour displayed by his grandfather MK Gandhi - who tried to stop the Hindu's from protecting themselves when they were being massacred my the muslims in 1947.

Hindu's and Jews are friends and allies fighting a common enemy. That common enemy is fundamental islam.

I am, by the way, fully aware of the diversity of opinion and ethics, in the global Jewish community. (Read "The Holocaust Industry" by Finkelstein, and writings on Israel by Chomsky, both writers are favourites of the Israeli Lobby)

Somehow we are to believe that "Anti-semitism" is part of the human genome, and an inherent defect that can surface in anyone not jewish. The comments on the original article exclaim "This is simply anti-semitism" - for some reason people have been hating Jews throughout history for no reason at all. The same hypocrites (many Jewish writers,media etc) are actively endorsing and profiting from rising Islamophobia and hatred for Muslims. This ofcourse is fully justifiable,logical,and reasonable.

Somehow we are to believe that "Anti-semitism" is part of the human genome, and an inherent defect that can surface in anyone not jewish. The comments on the original article exclaim "This is simply anti-semitism" - for some reason people have been hating Jews throughout history for no reason at all. The same hypocrites (many Jewish writers,media etc) are actively endorsing and profiting from rising Islamophobia and hatred for Muslims. This ofcourse is fully justifiable,logical,and reasonable.

Mr. Gandhi,

Your original post and subsequent "apology" are disgraceful; you ought to be ashamed for both. It would do you well to open your eyes to see that Middle Eastern Islamofacists want to eradicate Israel...they want to kill all the Jews that live there. Europe is again seething with Nazism and all manner of antisemitism. Can a people whose identity has been threatened for milenia simply lay down their arms in the face of such hatred and extremism. You are very much a polyanna, if you think that they can. This is not your grandfather with the British; it is a different matter entirely and your inability to discern that shows an incrediable lack of scholarly rigor and simple reason.

Mr. Gandhi ignores the fact that, multiple times over the last 50 years, Arabs / Palestinians could have made peace with Israel but chose, instead, to follow the dictates of sociopathic, jew-hating leaders like Arafat. Furthermore, the few courageous Arabs who did want to make peace with Israel -- think "Anwar Sadat" -- were persecuted and, in the case of Sadat himself, even assassinated. Mr. Gandhi's post is one more verse of the "blame-the-victim" song, and is not essentially different from saying that if the woman had worn a longer skirt, she would not have been raped. JIM

Arun Gandhi's ignorant post has dishonored the memory of his grandfather. There is no special culture of violence in Israel or the Jews, and indeed there are many Jewish and Israeli practitioners of nonviolence. How Arun Gandhi could make such a foolish statement is beyond comprehension.

They have come out from under their rocks,the sewers,the dark and dingy holes that they usually inhabit,to cheer on their champion,Mr.Arun Gandhi.
The Ganhdi name just got a bucket of horse manure poured all over it....cheers.....

Dear Mr Ghandi

I think you underestimate the true import and importance of the Holocaust. The Jewish population of the world today stands at approximately 13,000,000. Given that the population conventionally doubles every generation, and positing 2 generations since the end of WWII, we can estimate that today's population comprise the descendants of approximately 3,250,000 Jews. This would indicate that almost 2/3 of all Jews were destroyed in the Holocaust.

I do not believe that the importance of the catastrophe can be overstated.

Dear Mr Ghandi

I think you underestimate the true import and importance of the Holocaust. The Jewish population of the world today stands at approximately 13,000,000. Given that the population conventionally doubles every generation, and positing 2 generations since the end of WWII, we can estimate that today's population comprise the descendants of approximately 3,250,000 Jews. This would indicate that almost 2/3 of all Jews were destroyed in the Holocaust.

I do not believe that the importance of the catastrophe can be overstated.

In no way do I believe that Mr. Arun Gandhi is anti-Semitic. However, the lesson of the Holocaust, and of the entire Nazi era, is that evil will prevail when good people do nothing. The right of a people to engage in self-defense, even violent self-defense, was a right to which Jews under Nazi rule were entitled and almost always denied. The failure of the Western powers to assist the Jewish people in the exercise of that right prolonged both the savagery of World War II and the horrors of the Holocaust. Israel is the only Jewish state, and it is entitled to exercise within reason and the bounds of proportionately the right denied to Jewish nationals in Europe during the days of fascist reign. It is one thing for the Indian people to have courageously confronted the British with nonviolent civil disobediance; it was quite another for the Jews of Treblinka and Auschwitz to have similarly conducted themselves against the homicidal acts of Nazism. The British want3ed to oppress and rule Indians; the Nazis wanted to exterminate the Jews. Finally, and with all due respect to Mr. Gandhi, the nonviolence which led to the independence of India also led to its partition, an act which haunts the world to this day and has made the existence of extremsit Islamic terorism possible.

Hindus and Muslims have savaged one another in India more than any other religious groups -- and both like to pretend they are superior to the west.

While disheartening that Mr. Gandhi chooses to single out Israel and Jews as “the biggest players” in “a culture of violence,” his simple, stale and knee-jerk views on a complex topic are merely reflective of the reprehensible Antisemitism and Israel-bashing that has become widely accepted as legitimate criticism of the actions of a state.

It should come as no surprise that Mr. Gandhi naively asks “Would it not be better to befriend those who hate you?” and suggests technology sharing as a solution to the Israel-Palestinian conflict, as if a would-be suicide bomber would be deterred by a new iPOD or the repressive, Islamic Hamas prefers greater access to the liberal world available on the Internet over the implementation of Shari’a and the destruction of Israel. Yet sadly the grandson is merely echoing the delusions of his celebrated forbearer, Mohandas Gandhi. He suggested in his famous 1938 essay on Palestine that had the Jews practiced non-violence during the Holocaust, they would have fared better. He proclaimed, “if the Jewish mind could be prepared for voluntary suffering, even the massacre I have imagined could be turned into a day of thanksgiving.” It did not occur to him that had all Jews succumbed to the Holocaust, and had the Allies not entered the war as he implies, there would be no Jews left to convert the tragedy “into a day of thanksgiving.” He then went on to suggest that the Jews living in Palestine should “seek to convert the Arab heart” and “discard the help of the British bayonet,” as if the massacres of religious, peaceable Jews in 1929 and 1936 in Palestine never occurred.

Just as the elder thought that if only the Jews were a bit nicer to the Nazis the gas chambers could have been avoided and just as he thought that if only the Yishuv had laid down its arms the Arab push to the sea would have turned to an open embrace, Gandhi the younger maintains that if only Israel were to tear down the security fence, disband its army, and teach the Palestinians how to grow produce in hot-houses, all grievances and violence would disappear.

And about that whole “Israel and Jews” being the largest contributors to the “culture of violence” that plagues that world? Maybe the Janjaweed, al-Qaeda, Tamil Tigers, and the Farc, not too mention the governments of Iran, Myanmar, and Zimbabwe, are secretly peace-loving liberals who would gladly set down their arms if only the Jews would let them. Maybe.

While disheartening that Mr. Gandhi chooses to single out Israel and Jews as “the biggest players” in “a culture of violence,” his simple, stale and knee-jerk views on a complex topic are merely reflective of the reprehensible anti-Semitism and Israel-bashing that has become widely accepted as legitimate criticism of the actions of a state.

It should come as no surprise that Mr. Gandhi naively asks “Would it not be better to befriend those who hate you?” and suggests technology sharing as a solution to the Israel-Palestinian conflict, as if a would-be suicide bomber would be deterred by a new iPOD or the repressive, Islamic Hamas prefers greater access to the liberal world available on the Internet over the implementation of Shari’a and the destruction of Israel. Yet sadly the grandson is merely echoing the delusions of his celebrated forbearer, Mohandas Gandhi. He suggested in his famous 1938 essay on Palestine that had the Jews practiced non-violence during the Holocaust, they would have fared better. He proclaimed, “if the Jewish mind could be prepared for voluntary suffering, even the massacre I have imagined could be turned into a day of thanksgiving.” It did not occur to him that had all Jews succumbed to the Holocaust, and had the Allies not entered the war as he implies, there would be no Jews left to convert the tragedy “into a day of thanksgiving.” He then went on to suggest that the Jews living in Palestine should “seek to convert the Arab heart” and “discard the help of the British bayonet,” as if the massacres of religious, peaceable Jews in 1929 and 1936 in Palestine never occurred.

Just as the elder thought that if only the Jews were a bit nicer to the Nazis the gas chambers could have been avoided and just as he thought that if only the Yishuv had laid down its arms the Arab push to the sea would have turned to an open embrace, Gandhi the younger maintains that if only Israel were to tear down the security fence, disband its army, and teach the Palestinians how to grow produce in hot-houses, all grievances and violence would disappear.

And about that whole “Israel and Jews” being the largest contributors to the “culture of violence” that plagues that world? Maybe the Janjaweed, al-Qaeda, Tamil Tigers, and the Farc, not too mention the governments of Iran, Myanmar, and Zimbabwe, are secretly peace-loving liberals who would gladly set down their arms if only the Jews would let them. Maybe.

Last I checked Rupert Murdoch wasn't Jewish.

"The chosen won it by acquiring control over essentially the complete mainstream news, information, education and entertainment media of every type, and using that control to infuse and disseminate their message, agenda and worldview, their way of thinking, or rather the way they want us to think. Since at least the 1960s this campaign has been effectively complete."

What, you mean since the Red Scare when the idea the Jews were all Soviet Commies who'd usurped control of the media was put to trial and debunked?

The problem with 'the media' isn't Jewish people being involved: it's that since Reagan deregulated the FCC, and other conservatives have followed suit, that it's increasingly been owned by fewer and fewer corporations.

If you have a problem with the media, don't use it as an excuse for anti-Semitism: based in paranoia as you are, somehow you guys never seem to actually get around to doing anything but supporting the people who ensure fewer and fewer corporations' agendas control the public airwaves.

Conspiracy theories give a wonderful, but illusory sense of 'control' over things, "I know what's really going on, it's the Jews..."

But really, the actual problem with 'the media' is plain to see. It's corporations with overt interests that they aren't shy about telling the stockholders about.

You wanna freak out, freak out about *that.*

Many of the commentaries replying to Mr. Gandhi note the sheer hypocricy of his position and his willingness to let Israel sit quietly as it is destroyed by its neighbors. No, Israel is not perfect, but I assure you if nothing was done to protect itself, its enemies would take every chance to destroy it. I keep pondering what Israel should do and I keep running against the response of the Palestinians to every move of Israel - attack and demonize. Mr. Gandhi has let every other nation and group off the hook by claiming that Israel creates the most problems. Why is there no criticism of any other occupation or repression of liberation movements? And as a final note, some commentators have criticized defenders of Israel by saying that every time Israel is criticized, this is the reaction. That is a rather specious argument that is intended to put Israel's defenders into an impossible situation - you are not allowed to point out inconvenient facts, but rather you should sit there and take the unfair criticism leveled at Israel. No other country or society is put under such a microscope. If we liberals decided to put fairness first, then Israel would be one among many who would be criticized, but frankly, would have much less to be criticized than most of the rest of the world. Can we say Egypt, Thailand, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Morocco, India, Pakistan, the other 52 countries of the Muslim world when repressive, violent societies (both whole and in part) are discussed? A convenient target doesn't make the right target.

Your grandfather would be ashamed of what you said. As a Jewish-American, I am offended. Your apology does not come far enough and to me, it is unacceptable.

Most of us are mentally trapped to think Jewish.

Actually,it is safe to say that virtually every mainstream publication or or other type of media organ is "nothing more than a screen to present chosen views." The great battle over the last century has been a battle for the mind of the Western peoples, i.e., non-Jewish Euros. The chosen won it by acquiring control over essentially the complete mainstream news, information, education and entertainment media of every type, and using that control to infuse and disseminate their message, agenda and worldview, their way of thinking, or rather the way they want us to think. Since at least the 1960s this campaign has been effectively complete. Since then they have shaped and controlled the minds of all but a seeming few of us in varying degree with almost no opposition or competition from any alternative worldview. So now most of us are mentally trapped in the box the chosen have made for us, which we have lived in all our lives. Only a few have managed to avoid it or escape it, or to even sometimes see outside of it, and so actually "think outside of the (Jewish) box."

Most of us are mentally trapped to think Jewish.

Actually, it is safe to say that virtually every mainstream publication or or other type of media organ is "nothing more than a screen to present chosen views." The great battle over the last century has been a battle for the mind of the Western peoples, i.e., non-Jewish Euros. The chosen won it by acquiring control over essentially the complete mainstream news, information, education and entertainment media of every type, and using that control to infuse and disseminate their message, agenda and worldview, their way of thinking, or rather the way they want us to think. Since at least the 1960s this campaign has been effectively complete. Since then they have shaped and controlled the minds of all but a seeming few of us in varying degree with almost no opposition or competition from any alternative worldview. So now most of us are mentally trapped in the box the chosen have made for us, which we have lived in all our lives. Only a few have managed to avoid it or escape it, or to even sometimes see outside of it, and so actually "think outside of the (Jewish) box."

Precisely how does one obtain peace with those whose chief goal is to change by force of arms your most basic beliefs and how you conduct your life and further are unwilling to discuss the mutual problems?

Mr. Arun Gandhi, you did great. Scholarly people always reconsider their opinions. If your remarks hurt the feelings of some one, it will not serve the purpose of your comments.

Westerns & American Media must learn a lesson from you. They should not call the atomic bomb of Pakistan as Islamic bomb. It harms the feelings of Muslims. As every body knows that no bomb has any religion, bomb is a bomb. We never called Americans bomb as Christen bomb, Israeli bomb as Jews bomb & Indian bomb as Hindu bomb. Same way terrorism has no religion, pleases stop using word “Islamic” with terrorist activities of any group in Islamic countries.

I highly appreciate your apology. It shows that you have a great blood of Mohandas K. Mahatma Gandhi.

Lahore-Pakistan

Mr. Arun Gandhi, you did great. Scholarly people always reconsider their opinions. If your remarks hurt the feelings of some one, it will not serve the purpose of your comments.

Westerns & American Media must learn a lesson from you. They should not call the atomic bomb of Pakistan as Islamic bomb. It harms the feelings of Muslims. As every body knows that no bomb has any religion, bomb is a bomb. We never called Americans bomb as Christen bomb, Israeli bomb as Jews bomb & Indian bomb as Hindu bomb. Same way terrorism has no religion, pleases stop using word “Islamic” with terrorist activities of any group in Islamic countries.

I highly appreciate your apology. It shows that you have a great blood of Mohandas K. Mahatma Gandhi.

Lahore-Pakistan

"The Holocaust" That phrase is insulting to anyone who knows history. It's stated as if it was the only holocaust in history and as if the Jews were the only people who were ever persecuted.

There are many good Jews out there, but that doesn't matter. Israel and radical groups like the ADL will stop at nothing to portray themselves as the victim. Sometimes it is true many times it is completely the opposite. An irony lost to so many.

Kurtlane,

I have nothing further to say at this time.

Good Luck.

Ptovidence

ooooppppssss.

K U R T L A N E,, and Similarly Situated;

Under ECLATi-ON LAW(s) of S.S. Planet EARTH; That "The [un] Holy POPE et al[

are Culpible & should bare All "YOUR" & Loved ones Costs [Financialls, just like with condoning to that Church MASS-PEDAPHILIA Sins & other never will we know, since they know how to dodge or evade] for 'Inciting a Riot! And,

'Deprivation of CHURCH Duty or Services or Responsability' and for violating your Inalienable Right to PUBLIC DUTY' for Playing International 'POLITICS' instead of the Host Country Politicaly/Diplomaticalyy = HUMATE Duty owned!(not PRIVATE? ) etc.. !

Say, Mr. [un] Holy SEE, Cardinals, Bishops... ,

"You caused this Phenomonon, like Lightening Struck these churches Suddenly", so as a result, you Fix and take Care of "US" 'Displaced Persons' via some one's Human Wrongs against my Humate Rights..."

Hay KURTLANE, et al;

TRIVIA: Did You know that the Vatican City had, once upon a time, their own Jail's?? I'm sure them Rooms or Pits, today would make some nice apartments so to speaketh.

Call Mr. POPA Bennedict & ask for a Broom aye!

FORSAKE, ALL PRE-APOCALYPTiC Man Made & Zero Eclat + "i" = LIFE/PHOTONS, competing Religion(s) or Belief(s) or Faith SYSTEM(s)!

INSTEAD: Magnify , Uphold & Make Honorable The BIRTH Awareness of the

"O.ne U.niversal R.eligion Book Of TRANSFINITY" ('Reality' on a Holy immortal Comic Move), a/k/a OUR-BOT" or the "Book Of OUR.system"!

Happy G-D Hunting!

Here is something that would be nice for Mr. Gandhi to comment on:

Bethlehem Churches Bear Brunt Of Religious Hatred
By: David Bedein - 1/9/08 , The Bulletin

Bethlehem - In certain parts of the Holy Land, you can't go too far without seeing a church.

For centuries, millions of Christian pilgrims visited the Holy Land to pray in the holy houses of worship. Palestinian Christians from all denominations who built these churches for centuries had the freedom to worship, without any problems from the nearby Muslims.

Things began to change a decade ago, after the Palestinian Authority took control of major sections of the Holy Land. And, as Islamic fundamentalism has risen in those territories during that time, relations between the two religions began to deteriorate. As Islam has grown, lawlessness has spread throughout the territories, where Islamic militants have been emboldened to act - sometimes illegally - to advance their cause.

Christians now say they have experienced anti-Christian sentiment from Muslims that have ranged from verbal accusations to vicious beatings and murder. And basic holidays that Christians always celebrated have now been forbidden. In December, the Hamas government in Gaza banned any celebrations of New Year's eve and New Year's day, a traditional Christian holiday period. Also, in the West Bank, an Islamic group, "Keepers of Sharia (Islamic Law) warned residents not to celebrate the holidays.

Besides being shaken down by the Palestinian Authority for blackmail money, and having their land stolen in elaborate schemes from Palestinian Authority officials, some Christians say they have looked on helplessly as they suffered what they call the ultimate injustice: the burning and desecration of their holy churches.

Christians are still reeling from September, 2006, when seven churches in the West Bank and Gaza were attacked in a three day period after Muslims were infuriated by comments made by Pope Benedict VVI about Islam and the prophet Mohammed. The pope's comments followed the publication of cartoons depicting Mohammed in a Dutch newspaper. After the churches were attacked by Islamic fundamentalists, a Hamas leader, Imad Hamto, called for the Pope to repent and to convert to Islam.

The attacks were not the first on churches in the Holy Land in recent years. In 2001, Palestinian gunmen took over Christian-Palestinian churches in Beit Jallah - a city near Bethlehem - so they could fire into Israeli neighborhoods. At the time, Palestinian snipers said they took control of the holy churches because they were confident the Israelis would not attack them.

And, some say the worst case took place in 2002, when more than 100 Palestinian fighters loyal to former PA President Yasser Arafat took over the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem and held dozens of hostages - including priests and nuns. Inside, the gunmen used bibles for toilet paper, emptied the church's charity boxes, and sold gold and silver crosses that had been in the church for centuries. They even lit a fire in a section of a church during the siege.

Christians say that the 2006 church burnings and attacks were a turning point in Christian-Muslim relations in the Holy Land.

"The Islamic people want to kill us. That's their principle and belief. They don't want Christians in this country. They don't want to hear our names; they don't want to see us. That's the reality," said Reverend Tomey Dahoud, who heads the Greek Orthodox Church in Taubas, a city near Jenin.

Dahoud's church, which was built more than 100 years ago, suffered extensive damage after its entrance hall was firebombed in Sept. of 2006. That attack sent shivers through the remaining 14 Christians in Taubas, causing some to consider leaving.

"We've had problems before with Muslims but they never touched the house of God," explained Dahoud. "What does it mean to set a church on fire? It's terrorism, it's a crime."

In Tulkaram, the last Christian family that takes care of the 200-year-old Greek Orthodox Church say they've had enough and want to practice their religion freely.

"We are preparing to move abroad to a place where we can live a better life as Christians," said Reverand Dahoud Dimitry, who heads the Tulkaram's Saint George Greek Orthodox church that burned to the ground in an arson attack on Sept. 16, 2006.

More than 30 years ago, the Christian community numbered close to 2000, but now Dimitry's family of 12 is the last remaining Christian family in this Islamic stronghold.

To date no one has been arrested or charged with the arson, which occurred after extremists poured gasoline throughout the church and on its alter.

The church was rebuilt but there are no funds for a security guard or for security cameras. During the fire, all of the church's contents except one bible were incinerated.

"We had two icons from the 15th century and they were destroyed. We had a small library and the most important thing that we had was a registry of all the names of Christians who had ever lived in Tulkaram. All of that burned and now we don't have any records of our ancestors."

In Nablus, there are now just 700 Christians left - down from 3,000 just 40 years ago. And, last year, the small Christian community was hard hit after four of its churches were burned by Islamic fundamentalists following the Pope's comments.

"We were afraid," explained Jamal Mahmud, who works at the Jacob Well Greek Orthodox Church in Nablus. Mahmud said during the days when Muslim rioted, 25 Molotov cocktails were thrown at the church, which suffered minimal damage. "When somebody throws a Molotov cocktail at you it's frightening," added Mahmud.

"The future will be even more dangerous for Christian people, added Reverand Yousef Jibran Saade, the spiritual leader of the Greek Catholic Church in Nablus. Saade's church was firebombed and riddled with bullets by unknown attackers on Sept. 16, 2006. No one has been arrested for the

attacks, and, like other West Bank Christian clerics, he said the attack caused parishioners to consider moving abroad.

In Gaza, following the Pope's remarks, Islamic extremists bombed a 1,400-year-old Greek Orthodox Church. In addition, a group of Catholic nuns were threatened, and a bomb was placed outside of another church.

The attack and threats instilled fear into many of the church's parishioners. But even before the September, 2006 rioting, the small Christian community of 2,000 - mostly Greek Orthodox - felt unsafe. Since Hamas won the Palestinian elections in January of 2006, Sharia - or Islamic law - has been the informal law of the land. These days, Christian women cover their hair like Muslim women so as to not attract attention.

"It is dangerous for Christians in Gaza," explained Pastor Hanna Massad, a Palestinian-American who runs the 200-member Gaza Baptist Church.

Massad's church has been repeatedly threatened by fundamentalists in the last several years, and the bible store that his wife runs in Gaza City was firebombed twice in the last year. And in October, a bible store worker and one of his parishioners, Rami Ayyad, were kidnapped and murdered by Islamic fundamentalists. He was found near the Christian book store.

In Bethlehem, the threats, shakedowns, and anti-Christian sentiment have taken their toll on former Bethlehem Mayor Hanna Nasser. Nasser said the community is still in shock over the 2002 takeover of the 1,400-year-old Church of the Nativity by Palestinian gunmen.

"For Christians it was a brutal feeling," said Nasser, who was born in Bethlehem, and also baptized and married inside the Church of the Nativity. "We were astonished and very angry. The church was not destroyed but we as Christians in Bethlehem, remain wounded."

At 70, Nasser plans to stay in the city. But, like other Christian families that trace their roots to this city for centuries, he has watched family members, like his son and daughter leave the city.

"There is no future for Christians," said Nasser.

Reverend Tomey Dahoud also says the pressure is mounting for all Christians to leave Palestinian-controlled lands. Still, he is prepared to stay, even if it means enduring violence. "Even if they are going to set fire to all of our churches we will stay and die here," said Dahoud.

On: The Difference between an Apocalyptic Scientist and a Pre-Apocalyptic Scientist:
Go and share your Pre-Apocalyptic Buddhism Philosophy , lost in translation, of the [un] Holy Doll or Lama with the CHINESE-SCIENTISTS or INDIAN-SCIENTISTS, not with American-Scientific Community's!

Note:

You know Nothing about: "quantum physics, astronomy, brain plasticity, human emotions, the origin of life, and consciousness..." ZERO!

You are trying to [you kindness are sneakarooing Pretex's for infiltration] get in bed with Scientific Minds because you are a Dieing Religion!

You guy's are doing the same Kraparino [Conspiracy] that the EVANGELICAL Pre-Apocalyptic Folks via "Pre-Apocalyptic LAWYERS" aka Liar's, tried to do with that "iNTTELIGENT DESIGN" [Zero Predictable, zereo Scientific Method] attempt!

Note: O.U.R. Prophet of ECLATi-ON "QUANTUM ENTANGLEMENT" & "RELATIVITY" Philosophy (song) , Albert EINSTEIN [pbuh] had not trusted the [un] Holy Dali Lama et al. Includes Muhatma Gandhi [pbuh]!

Remember, OUR Father Einstein said that there will come a 'RELIGION of EVERYTHING" before than can ever be a 'SCIENCE of EVERYTHING"! [Similar Said].

Guess What? WE are COME! And Via the JOKTAN Eberue Race of S.PACE-S.HIP Momma Poppa EARTH. aka S.S. GEOID, aka S.S. GAIA, aka S.S. TELLUSng something!

Oopppsssssa

This was meant for Dr. Thupen JinnPa page AND for [un] Holy Dali Lama & Their Psychiatry & Psycologist trained MONKs-ARMY International et al;

ATT : Sweet Sweet U.S. of A., et al: Do not let these Pre-Apocalyptic folk infiltrate & compromise our genuine SECULAR GOVERNMENT & LANDS!

Keep their Pre-Apocalyptic Systems out of GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL(s) & their Public Offices! And keep them out of our Strategic Engineering & Scientific Community's! In Privacy Too.

Onw can attempt to TRUST Them, But Verify them and do not only reaf there faces & cool like impression & Word Merchandizings!!

Those HINDU's & BUDDHISTS have a Pre-Apocalyptic gift for Gab, so to Speaketh TRUE (opposite of MYTH). Ya.

Tell them to take their IMPORTED feignings somewhere else!

According to Hindu "GEETA" or GITA [The one translated & Written by "RSS" co Conspirator & Founder of, Mr. [un] Ho;y SWAMi CHINMAYAnanda that say's,

"FORSAKE ALL RELIGION!"

Please see Stanza 18:66

et seq, of Many Anti Humanity & Anti-Nature & AntiCivilization, and Religious Monopoly & Nepotism & Cast & jealous & SuperStupidStitious Pre-Apocalyptic Conjenctures!

Nice Smile, yet 1001 Faces! Don't let that Garb they wear impress you! It's an innoscent looking roose & chant but it's heart is full of selfish intentions!

Please, Throw your "CHAKRA" away! [3rd Eye]!

NEPOTISTIc Mr. Gandhi & Nepotistic Mr. TENZIN (Lama Dali) Has Blood on their Hand(s)!

Example: See MYANMAR (Burma) how MONKS ARMY had Matyred their own Rable Rousers. they Lost their Pre-Apocalyptic religious Capital to China so they , via a baloon effect, tried to take over Murma for India behind that act too.

See Excerpts:

"On September 24, 20,000 monks and nuns led 30,000 people in a protest march from the golden Shwedagon Pagoda in Yangon, past the offices of the opposition National League for Democracy (NLD) party. Comedian Zaganar and star Kyaw Thu brought food and water to the monks. On September 22, monks marched to greet Aung San Suu Kyi, a peace activist who has been under house arrest since 1990.."

"On September 25, 2,000 people defied threats from Burma's junta and marched to Shwedagon Pagoda amid army trucks and warning of Brigadier-General Thura Myint Maung not to violate Buddhist "rules and regulations."[114] The following morning, various prominent protesters were arrested and troops barricaded Shwedagon Pagoda and attacked the 700 people within. Despite this, 5,000 monks continued to protest in Yangon. At least four deaths were reported after security forces fired on the crowds in Yangon. The junta announced that ten people had died in the crackdown on 27 September 2007 but foreign diplomatic sources in Yangon said more than ten Buddhist monks and demonstrators were dead. Later a badly-beaten Buddhist monk's body was found in Rangoon River. The photo was released on the Internet site[1] its run by a Norway-based group of exiled Burmese journalists. [115] On September 27, security forces began raiding monasteries and arresting monks throughout the country. The security forces also fired on the nearly 50,000 people protesting in Yangon, killing nine people including Japanese photojournalist Kenji Nagai.[116][117][118]

Internet access within the nation has been suspended, reportedly in an attempt to dampen international awareness of the situation.[119] It has also been reported that troops have been specifically targeting people with cameras.[120] The junta's violent response to peaceful protests has prompted international condemnation and calls for an immediate halt to the violence. In particular, Japanese Prime Minister Yasuo Fukuda has demanded an explanation for the killing of Nagai. Ibrahim Gambari, the United Nations special envoy to Burma, has arrived in Naypyidaw and has met with junta leaders and Aung San Suu Kyi.[121] Despite increasingly strong calls for peace, the junta continued to attack monks and raid monasteries through October..."

"By October 2, 2007, thousands of monks were unaccounted for and their whereabouts unknown. Many monasteries are being patrolled by government troops.[123] There are eyewitness accounts of injured protesters being burned alive by the military regime in a crematorium on the outskirts of Rangoon.[124]

On October 31, 2007 the monks started to protest again. 200 monks marched in Pakokku. [125][126]

On November 29, 2007 the Junta has shut down a Yangon monastery which served as a hospice for HIV/AIDS patients.

The Myanmar state media says that all but 91 of the nearly 3,000 arrested in the crackdown were released. The United Nations special envoy Ibrahim Gambari criticised the closing of the monastery, yet was assured that the crackdown would stop. He expects to return to Myanmar in December.."

Question: Where were You Mr. [un] Holy Dalhi Lama?? At your Buddha War Room in New Delhi or at "code-Word" DHARMASALA???

How come you did not get your head cracked or disappeared?? You are much older & you are UnHoly! You are Scared of your own breath & AUmmmmm Ommmmmm!

You need to reach in to your "Hidden-Treasures" [Together Your fanatic Monk-Army are very Wealthy, yet you faign Poverty & stick hands out for BOKSHEESH (tithes, charaity)] or Secret Stash & Payback Reperations to ALL the Deceased , or those you caused to get killed, and their Family's, Not Burma. You started It & sucked the other unsupection idiot Savants to follow a Death March instead of a Peace March!

Trouble Makers! This World needs less Pre-Apocalyptic Buddhism & Hiduism et al, not More!

Warning: Via Islamic "AL TAQIYA" [Islamic Zionism (Conquest) that India is goung to be further divided & Partitioned. Especially the Calcutta Delta's Region! Then Kasmir Minor then Nepal minor via ISLAMIC Jihad or Pre-Text again! {Secretly backed by Saudi Arabia & Afghanistan & Iran!}

Not Communist China & not Communist RUSSIA will be able to help you's!

In Some Cases . NICE GUYS/GALs do come Last! Be Tough, Not Illusionally nice! fot It is a Sign of Weakness within.

Throw Out, to Sunni Saudi Arabia, All Pre-Apocalyptic Islamic 1st and destroy their Mosques, AND,

Simultaneously Obolish Any Cast-Systems of the SuperStupidStitious among your Territorys!! Watch out , Like a MONGOOSE from them PAKiSATANS therefrom & thereof!

Note:

This is a Prophecy who's TIME is Come! Krishna & Vishna & Rama & Buddha cannot help You!

Forsake All your Own religions First!

Hark Mon! Or else, you will see!

Hindu & Buddhist ZIONISM (Conquest) EXPOSED!

Please See Article on "World Hindu/Buddhist international PROTOCOL's and more.

See RSS Murderer's via the DALi LAMA & M. GADHi & NEHRU et al.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vishva_Hindu_Parishad

And see this 14 page WAPO link from Dr. Thupten JINPA Bullablogga , so to speaketh, who is trying to promote their INDIA National RSS Zionist Protocols, under a Pretext to mingle Psychiatry & Psychological , for mind altering Buddhisim & sucha CONSPIRACY into the American & Western Scientic Community.

The Dali-MONK-ARMY & the Gandhi'-HINDU-ARMY are playing Us unsuspecting, yet Sweet sweet trusting good Philosophy seeking Americans et al!

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/guestvoices/2008/01/by_dr_thupten_jinpa_today.html

That You me fellow ECLATi-ON(s) & not the OFF(s)!

On

"As always, you are a rabble-rousing idiot with a tenuous grasp on facts and sanity"

Yes I am an idiot for whom you have stolen 4 continents, stockpiled all kinds of WMD and have been threatening whole World and lately Iran.

If you have right to have thousands of WMD and not Iran then free all thieves from Jails and give them one WMD (Nuclear bomb) so that people don’t need to debate on your every day lies and deception like how T. E. Lawrence fooled Arabs in 1916 or Clive fooled our ancestors in Bengal, India in 1757 or how last war in 1991 and 2003 was started against Iraq and how Iraq was completely destroyed and millions Iraqis lost their dear one.

Just the read following on shoes of holiest man of Islam in holy Baghdad and be prepare for some punishment like the same.

Sheikh Osman Sayrifini and Sheikh Abdul Haq Harimi stated ".We were present before Saiyidina Hazrat Ghousul Azam in his Madrassa on third Saffar 555 A.H., when Hazrat suddenly got up with his wooden sandles under his feet and performed ablution. He offered two Rakats of prayers and with a loud shout, threw one of the sandles into the air. It disappeared from our sight. With another shout, his Holiness threw the other sandle into the air, which also disappeared. None present dared questioning him on the incident. But thirty days after this incident a caravan came to Baghdad from Ajam and said that they had brought some presents for Hazrat. Hazrat permitted the acceptance of the presents of valuable things but these the same pair of sandles which were thrown in the air by Hazrat. They related that on the third of Saffar when they were travelling, suddenly a gang attacked them and plundered their merchandise and murdered some of them in the caravan. The gang then entered the jungle to divide the booty. Then they had halted at the outskirts of the jungle and it struck them to solicit the help of Hazrat Ghousul Azam. Just at that time they had heard two loud shouts which reverberated throughout the jungle. They had mistaken the shouts as the aftermath of a scuffle between the gang that attacked us and a stronger gang of Arabs. We were terror stricken. Some members of the gang came to us and said that a calamity had befallen them and requested us to take back the plundered goods. We went to the place where the booty was lying divided and saw two of their leaders lying dead and the two sandles lying close by. SubhanAllah!

http://www.universal-publishers.com/book.php?method=ISBN&book=1581128770

"Caliph,

As always, you are a rabble-rousing idiot with a tenuous grasp on facts and sanity."

Yes I am an idiot for whom you have stolen 4 continents, stockpiled all kinds of WMD and have been threatening whole World and lately Iran.

If you have right to have thousands of WMD and not Iran then free all thieves from Jails and give them one WMD (Nuclear bomb) so that people don’t need to debate on your every day lies and deception like how T. E. Lawrence fooled Arabs in 1916 or Clive fooled our ancestors in Bengal, India in 1757 or how last war in 1991 and 2003 was started against Iraq and how Iraq was completely destroyed and millions Iraqis lost their dear one.

Just the read following on shoes of holiest man of Islam in holy Baghdad and be prepare for some punishment like the same.

Sheikh Osman Sayrifini and Sheikh Abdul Haq Harimi stated ".We were present before Saiyidina Hazrat Ghousul Azam in his Madrassa on third Saffar 555 A.H., when Hazrat suddenly got up with his wooden sandles under his feet and performed ablution. He offered two Rakats of prayers and with a loud shout, threw one of the sandles into the air. It disappeared from our sight. With another shout, his Holiness threw the other sandle into the air, which also disappeared. None present dared questioning him on the incident. But thirty days after this incident a caravan came to Baghdad from Ajam and said that they had brought some presents for Hazrat. Hazrat permitted the acceptance of the presents of valuable things but these the same pair of sandles which were thrown in the air by Hazrat. They related that on the third of Saffar when they were travelling, suddenly a gang attacked them and plundered their merchandise and murdered some of them in the caravan. The gang then entered the jungle to divide the booty. Then they had halted at the outskirts of the jungle and it struck them to solicit the help of Hazrat Ghousul Azam. Just at that time they had heard two loud shouts which reverberated throughout the jungle. They had mistaken the shouts as the aftermath of a scuffle between the gang that attacked us and a stronger gang of Arabs. We were terror stricken. Some members of the gang came to us and said that a calamity had befallen them and requested us to take back the plundered goods. We went to the place where the booty was lying divided and saw two of their leaders lying dead and the two sandles lying close by. SubhanAllah!

http://www.universal-publishers.com/book.php?method=ISBN&book=1581128770

I'm afraid that Mr. Gandhi either missed the point of the question or, alternatively, that he used the question to promote a naively narrow agenda without having any understanding of the basic issue. In either case, he has misconstrued the entire nature of the Jewish involvement and identity with the State of Israel as well as the identity of American Jews.

Mr. Gandhi apparently either has no understanding or no regard for the fundamental essence of the Jewish religion and the centrality of Torah and its teachings. Torah long preceded the Holocaust--by centuries. Torah provides both a history of the formation of the Jewish people and their unique covenant with God--all in the context of a relationship with the land of Israel. Long before the Holocaust. The essence of Mr. Gandhi's post is to ignore that centrality, the moral and ethical precepts and, given the 5000+ years of history represented by the Jewish calendar, and, indeed, to cast the issue of American Jewish identity as what might be paraphrased as "the violent consequences of the Jews' inability to get over the Holocaust" is historically and anthropologically illiterate.

There is certainly a fair discussion to be had about the methods used by the Israeli government to maintain security. By the way, that discussion occurs within the American Jewish community as well as in the larger community. There is a fair discussion to be had about the role of violence in the Middle East. That is not a discussion that can be had only with Israelis....need any more be said??? But to suggest, as Mr. Gandhi's post does, that American Jewish identity is solely bound up with the Holocaust is belittling, dangerously derisive, implicitly denies the ethical and moral foundations of Judaism. On a personal level, it is insulting. As a representative of an otherwise respectable point of view, it is dangerously close to either uneducated or intellectually dishonest.

Caliph,

As always, you are a rabble-rousing idiot with a tenuous grasp on facts and sanity.

Arun Gandhi: "We have created a culture of violence (Israel and the Jews are the biggest players) and that Culture of Violence is eventually going to destroy humanity."

Hey Arun, were you goose-stepping and giving a nazi salute while you posted this crap? Why is Newsweek and the washington post giving a voice to a scumbag like this guy?

To Mr. Joel Seligman

President of the University of Rochester
and all others who wrote against Mr. Arun Gandhi.
I am replying on behalf of Mr. Arun Gandhi

1. That illegal Immigrants who were brought in Palestine through illegal and immoral Balfour Declaration is root of problem in entire region and in This World.

2. Mr. Arun Gandhi probably does not know that Kamal Ataturk who abolished Caliphate was a Jew too and this is part of long conspiracy against Caliphate and World Muslims for which World Muslims are victims today.

Source: Rabbi Joachim Prinz, Ex President American Jewish Congress in his famous book The Secret Jews

3. That those illegal Immigratnts were brought to Palestine immorally after the destruction and abolition of Caliphate after 1916

4. That Moscow, London, Paris and Illegal Immigrants of Tel Aviv, rest of Palestine and else where who posses thousands of Nuclear Bombs and WMD are real threat to World Peace and not Arabs or Muslims or Iranians.

5. Aftar killing millions in Iraq since 1991, Those illegal Immigrants are now after Iran and entire region and the following is that truth

From:

http://presscue.com/node/38692

We'll nuke Iran - Bush promises Israel

US President George W. Bush promised Israel's opposition leader Binyamin Netanyahu that the United States will join the Jewish state in a nuclear strike against Iran, Israel Radio reported today.
Former Prime Minister Netanyahu, opposition Likud party's hardline chairman who opposes the US-backed Annapolis peace process, reiterated to President Bush his stance, that a pre-emptive nuclear strike against Iran's nuclear installations was the only way to stop the Islamic nation's nuclear weapons ambitions.
"I told him my position and Bush agreed," Netanyahu told Israel Radio.
During their 45-minute meeting at King David hotel in Jerusalem Netanyahu also told Bush that "Jerusalem belongs to the Jewish people and will remain under Israeli sovereignty for eternity."

Let us have open discussion before International Court of Justice compromising Judges of Asian, Africa, and Euopeans with population ratio on the following rulings:

1. If Britain had right to detroy 1300 years old Caliphate which is only Islamic State and to create illgal present client States?

2. If Britain had moral right for illegal and immoral Balfour declaration and allow thos illegal Immigrants in Palestine?

3. If Europeans, Spaniards and Anglo Saxons had to right to steal 4 cotinients of North America, South America. Australia and Occenia and lately Palestine from rest 6 billions Asians and Africans?

Continents
BY SIZE

#1 Asia - (44,579,000 sq km)
#2 Africa - (30,065,000 sq km)
#3 North America - (24,256,000 sq km)
#4 South America - (17,819,000 sq km)
#5 Antarctica - (13,209,000 sq km)
#6 Europe - (9,938,000 sq km)
#7 Australia/Oceania - (7,687,000 sq km)

BY POPULATION 2005 est.

#1 Asia - (3,879,000,000)
#2 Africa - (877,500,000)
#3 Europe - (727,000,000)
#4 North America - (501,500,000)
#5 South America - (379,500,000)
#6 Australia/Oceania - (32,000,000)
#7 Antarctica - (0)

Thus total area of Asia and Africa is:

#1 Asia - (44,579,000 sq km)
#2 Africa - (30,065,000 sq km)
Total 74,644,000 sq km

Thus total population of Asia and Africa is:

#1 Asia - (3,879,000,000)
#2 Africa - (877,500,000)
Total 4,756,500,000

Thus almost 5 billion people live in Asia and Africa

And how much land Europeans are occupying through their power of WMD?

#3 North America - (24,256,000 sq km)
#4 South America - (17,819,000 sq km)
#5 Antarctica - (13,209,000 sq km)
#6 Europe - (9,938,000 sq km)
#7 Australia/Oceania - (7,687,000 sq km)
Total 72,909,000 sq km

How much population European dominated land?

#3 Europe - (727,000,000)
#4 North America - (501,500,000)
#5 South America - (379,500,000)
#6 Australia/Oceania - (32,000,000)
#7 Antarctica - (0)
Total 1,640,000,000

Thus 4,756,500,000 people are living in Asia and Africa consisting 74,644,000 sq km are and on the other hand

1,640,000,000 Europeans are living in European dominated area of 72,909,000 sq km.
Europeans are occupying almost same land in size though population ratio is 3 to 1.
So where is justice of equal opportunity for food, shelter and Wealth as those Europeans are also holding most of the wealth of this world through their power WMD.

Where are true education, Justice and truth and only truth?

Where is WMD? WMD is not in Persia, 7000 years old Civilization?

Stop singing WMD in Persia a country of Hafiz, Sadi and so on.

So where is equal justice?
More is in my book in:

http://www.universal-publishers.com/book.php?method=ISBN&book=1581128770

Please let us have open discussion in Iternational Court.

Thanks,

To Mr. Joel Seligman

President of the University of Rochester
and all others who wrote against Mr. Arun Gandhi.
I am replying on behalf of Mr. Arun Gandhi

1. That illegal Immigrants who were brought in Palestine through illegal and immoral Balfour Declaration is root of problem in entire region and in This World.

2. Mr. Arun Gandhi probably does not know that Kamal Ataturk who abolished Caliphate was a Jew too and this is part of long conspiracy against Caliphate and World Muslims for which World Muslims are victims today.

Source: Rabbi Joachim Prinz, Ex President American Jewish Congress in his famous book The Secret Jews

3. Than those illegal Immigratnts were brought to Palestine immorally after the destruction and abolition of Caliphate after 1916

4. That Moscow, London, Paris and Illegal Immigrants of Tel Aviv, rest of Palestine and else where who posses thousands of Nuclear Bombs and WMD are real threat to World Peace and not Arabs or Muslims or Iranians.

5. Aftar killing millions in Iraq since 1991, Those illegal Immigrants are now after Iran and entire region and the following is that truth

From:

http://presscue.com/node/38692

We'll nuke Iran - Bush promises Israel

US President George W. Bush promised Israel's opposition leader Binyamin Netanyahu that the United States will join the Jewish state in a nuclear strike against Iran, Israel Radio reported today.
Former Prime Minister Netanyahu, opposition Likud party's hardline chairman who opposes the US-backed Annapolis peace process, reiterated to President Bush his stance, that a pre-emptive nuclear strike against Iran's nuclear installations was the only way to stop the Islamic nation's nuclear weapons ambitions.
"I told him my position and Bush agreed," Netanyahu told Israel Radio.
During their 45-minute meeting at King David hotel in Jerusalem Netanyahu also told Bush that "Jerusalem belongs to the Jewish people and will remain under Israeli sovereignty for eternity."

Let us have open discussion before International Court of Justice compromising Judges of Asian, Africa, and Euopeans with population ratio on the following rulings:

1. If Britain had right to detroy 1300 years old Caliphate which is only Islamic State and to create illgal present client Stata

2. If Britain had for illegal and immoral Balfour declaration and allow thos illegal Immigrants in Palestine

3. If Europeans, Spaniards and Anglo Saxons had to right to steal 4 cotinients of North America, South America. Australia and Occenia and lately Palestine

Continents
BY SIZE

#1 Asia - (44,579,000 sq km)
#2 Africa - (30,065,000 sq km)
#3 North America - (24,256,000 sq km)
#4 South America - (17,819,000 sq km)
#5 Antarctica - (13,209,000 sq km)
#6 Europe - (9,938,000 sq km)
#7 Australia/Oceania - (7,687,000 sq km)

BY POPULATION 2005 est.

#1 Asia - (3,879,000,000)
#2 Africa - (877,500,000)
#3 Europe - (727,000,000)
#4 North America - (501,500,000)
#5 South America - (379,500,000)
#6 Australia/Oceania - (32,000,000)
#7 Antarctica - (0)

Thus total area of Asia and Africa is:

#1 Asia - (44,579,000 sq km)
#2 Africa - (30,065,000 sq km)
Total 74,644,000 sq km

Thus total population of Asia and Africa is:

#1 Asia - (3,879,000,000)
#2 Africa - (877,500,000)
Total 4,756,500,000

Thus almost 5 billion people live in Asia and Africa

And how much land Europeans are occupying through their power of WMD?

#3 North America - (24,256,000 sq km)
#4 South America - (17,819,000 sq km)
#5 Antarctica - (13,209,000 sq km)
#6 Europe - (9,938,000 sq km)
#7 Australia/Oceania - (7,687,000 sq km)
Total 72,909,000 sq km

How much population European dominated land?

#3 Europe - (727,000,000)
#4 North America - (501,500,000)
#5 South America - (379,500,000)
#6 Australia/Oceania - (32,000,000)
#7 Antarctica - (0)
Total 1,640,000,000

Thus 4,756,500,000 people are living in Asia and Africa consisting 74,644,000 sq km are and on the other hand

1,640,000,000 Europeans are living in European dominated area of 72,909,000 sq km.
Europeans are occupying almost same land in size though population ratio is 3 to 1.
So where is justice of equal opportunity for food, shelter and Wealth as those Europeans are also holding most of the wealth of this world through their power WMD.

Where are true education and truth and only truth?

Where is WMD? WMD is not in Persia, 7000 years old Civilization?
Stop singing WMD in Persia a country of Hafiz, Sadi and so on.

So where is equal justice?
More is in my book in:

http://www.universal-publishers.com/book.php?method=ISBN&book=1581128770

Please let us have open discussion in Iternational Court.

Thanks,

Here is a post from a blog called Harry's Place:

Gandhi was not a supporter of the partition of the British Mandate of Palestine, on the grounds that "Palestine belongs to the Arabs".

As to the fate of the jews who fled across the Mediterranean to escape their murder, Gandhi offered an eccentric prescription. In 1938, his advice was as follows:

And now a word to the Jews in Palestine. I have no doubt that they are going about it the wrong way. The Palestine of the Biblical conception is not a geographical tract. It is in their hearts. But if they must look to the Palestine of geography as their national home, it is wrong to enter it under the shadow of the British gun. A religious act cannot be performed with the aid of the bayonet or the bomb. They can settle in Palestine only by the goodwill of the Arabs. They should seek to convert the Arab heart. They can offer satyagraha in front of the Arabs and offer themselves to be shot or thrown into the Dead Sea without raising a little finger against them. They will find the world opinion in their favour in their religious aspiration.

I expect that Gandhi would not have heard of the Mizrahi jews, from Arab lands. However, as an opponent of the partition of India into separate national and religious minorities, I expect that his prescripion for those jews would have been much the same.

Certainly, after the genocide of Europe's jews had been completed, Gandhi's conviction in non violent resistance was unshaken. He told Louis Fischer, in 1946:

"[t]he Jews should have offered themselves to the butcher’s knife. They should have thrown themselves into the sea from cliffs… It would have aroused the world and the people of Germany… As it is they succumbed anyway in their millions"

Gandhi's grandson, Arun Gandhi, is the president and co-founder of the M. K. Gandhi Institute for Nonviolence, at the University of Rochester in New York.

Gandhi Jr has taken gramps' analysis one stage further. He believes that jews in Israel should disarm, dismantle the security barrier, and "befriend those who hate you".

He also reckons that the "Jewish identity" is one which "depends on violence", and that "Israel and the Jews" are the "biggest players" in a "Culture of Violence" which is going to "destroy humanity". (Come on Gandhi - I'm sure there are some other groups out there with a greater affection for indiscriminate violence on a rather grander scale).

Here's his bizarre, and rather dodgy Op Ed in the Washington Post:

Jewish Identity Can't Depend on Violence
Jewish identity in the past has been locked into the holocaust experience -- a German burden that the Jews have not been able to shed. It is a very good example of a community can overplay a historic experience to the point that it begins to repulse friends. The holocaust was the result of the warped mind of an individual who was able to influence his followers into doing something dreadful. But, it seems to me the Jews today not only want the Germans to feel guilty but the whole world must regret what happened to the Jews. The world did feel sorry for the episode but when an individual or a nation refuses to forgive and move on the regret turns into anger.

The Jewish identity in the future appears bleak. Any nation that remains anchored to the past is unable to move ahead and, especially a nation that believes its survival can only be ensured by weapons and bombs. In Tel Aviv in 2004 I had the opportunity to speak to some Members of Parliament and Peace activists all of whom argued that the wall and the military build-up was necessary to protect the nation and the people. In other words, I asked, you believe that you can create a snake pit -- with many deadly snakes in it -- and expect to live in the pit secure and alive? What do you mean? they countered. Well, with your superior weapons and armaments and your attitude towards your neighbors would it not be right to say that you are creating a snake pit? How can anyone live peacefully in such an atmosphere? Would it not be better to befriend those who hate you? Can you not reach out and share your technological advancement with your neighbors and build a relationship?

Apparently, in the modern world, so determined to live by the bomb, this is an alien concept. You don't befriend anyone, you dominate them. We have created a culture of violence (Israel and the Jews are the biggest players) and that Culture of Violence is eventually going to destroy humanity.

As a matter of fact, although many jews did resist their own murder at the hands of the Nazis, many more were in no position to resist, and were carted off silently to their deaths. Although it was hardly a voluntary act, the norm for most European jews was in accordance with Gandhi's advice. As a strategy for continuing to live, it was unsuccessful.

Similarly, the millions of Mizrahi jews who fled rising Arab nationalism and settled in Israel, also responded non-violently. They simply left the part of their region in which they were being persecuted and killed, for the one spot which offered a degree of security.

It is a good thing to encourage non-violence. It is also a good thing to encourage people to "befriend" their enemies. It is often said that Gandhi achieved some of his political aims non violently - at least personally - because Britain was not prepared to commit genocide against the Indians. He was fortunate in his opponents.

However, it is just as difficult today as it ever was to persuade people to choose submission to the butcher's knife over life.

From the President of the University of Rochester:

Statement by President Joel Seligman

January 11, 2008

I was surprised and deeply disappointed by Arun Gandhi's recent opinion piece in the Washington Post blog, "On Faith." I believe that his subsequent apology inadequately explains his stated views, which seem fundamentally inconsistent with the core values of the University of Rochester.

In particular I vehemently disagree with his singling out of Israel and the Jewish people as to blame for the "Culture of Violence" that he believes is eventually going to destroy humanity. This kind of stereotyping is inconsistent with our core values and would be inappropriate when applied to any race, any religion, any nationality, or either gender.

Among the University of Rochester's values are a commitment to promoting diversity and being a welcoming and inclusive community. We respect the religious and cultural heritages of all people, and indeed our Interfaith Chapel is an institutional expression of our commitment to support religious diversity, to encourage free and open dialogue among diverse religions in a civil manner.

We are also committed to the right of every person to address complaints or allegations personally and directly. Arun Gandhi currently is in India. I will discuss this matter with him in person as soon as he returns to Rochester later this month.

M.K. Ghandi said that Jews should commit mass suicide to awaken the world's conscience to the Holocaust. This would have been doing the Nazis work for them. The Nazis goal was to kill all the Jews on the planet. Ghandi just would have saved the Nazis from the awful work of having to actually kill them themselves.

Most of the world already knew about the Holocaust and did nothing to stop it. That includes Ameica and the UK. I would have awoken anyone's conscience. Ghandi never understood that the Nazis were not like the Brtish in India.

Pacifism allowed the Holocuast to happen. We should have attacked Hitler when he invade Poland. Then the Holocaust would nver have happened.

This so-called apology was a half-hearted attempt. Arun Ghandi needs to learn from his own past first. I support a two-state solution, but I am not convinced that the Palestinians have accepted Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state.

Providence, if you have something to say, then say it.

If you have something to ask, ask it.

This is what I meant by "fire away."

However, I do not appreciate the "boo hoo" stuff. Making fun out of other people's pain is just not cool.

An examination of my family tree shows that about one fourth of my family, and well over half of those who lived in Europe, were murdered by the Nazi's. It is the height of arrogance to suggest that it is time to let go of those memories. At a recent family reunion I was reminded of what the Germans did by the numbers on some of my cousins arms. I cannot imagine letting go of the memory of a lost world.

As far as Israel being a militaristic state: If it were less so, it would not exist. Its gentle neighbors would finish Hitler's work with gusto.

Certainly, the Arabs who live in the West Bank and Gaza have legitimate complaints. It is also true that the government of Israel has made many mistakes that have damaged them. However, few countries are as willing to acknowledge their mistakes as Israel.

Let us hope that there will be a speedy resolution to the conflict in Israel. It is doubtful that Mr. Gandhi will have contributed to it.

Kurtlane,

You need not apologize - certainly not to me.
I am not going to point out faults in your logic (none appear);
however,n.b., a 24 karat logic is nothing more than dross if it begins with lies and deceits.

Nor am I going to “fire away”;
the Socratic Method does not allow for that.

Something practical? I am not sure I can provide that. "Practical" may be outside our (yours and mine) grasp. I have offered to demonstrate that: “Israel is a failed state - founded illegally and immorally". With a bit of luck and through a mutual pursuit of the truth, we may happen upon a "practical".

I do not intend nor would I tolerant any "dirty tricks" or “unpleasant” surprises.

I have respect enough for your intellect, your knowledge, and your logic as expressed through your written word to continue.

Double standard? A standard is a nothing more than a stick with notches. That you have been measured with standards not applied to others is no concern of mine.

My forbears carried the names, among others, of Gabor, Mildfeld, Benjamin, and Gieber to America. If this “double boo-hoo standard” pain that you feel has rendered you incapable of being objective with me, well, there is nothing I can do, it is what it is.

I had planned to examine much more than notches.

Providence

Mr. Gandhi has expressed an understanding of the dynamic of violence that is becoming more widely appreciated around the world. Here in America, we are isolated from criticism of Israel by a virulent form of criticism that forbids us to criticize the Jewish State and their policies, because of horrific past injustice by Europeans against Europe's Jews.

Mr. Gandhi will no doubt be "dressed down" by no other than Joel Siligman, the president of the University of Rochester, which sponsors the Gandhi Institute. Apparently, intellectual freedom, and expression does not have a place at Rochester, which President Seligman describe as having core values that are opposed to Mr. Gandhi's observation and prediction!

yes kurtlane- im aware of where i give my money and to whom-

its kind of my point.

we dont need to divide up along ideological lines against each other if we can work with each other to address injustice, no matter where or who it is affecting.

http://www.ponerology.com

Victoria,

"i think ill go write that check to the southern pverty law center"

Southern Poverty Law Center was founded and is headed by Jews. Their names are Morris Dees, Joseph J. Levin Jr., and Julian Bond. This is just a tiny part of the tremendous contribution Jewish Americans have made to the Civil rights movement. Morris Dees had an attempt on his life. Some were actually killed (two out of three people killed in Mississippi in 1964 were Jewish). Which did not stop other Jewish people from standing up in their place.

You have said quite a few very unkind things about the Jewish people here. Would you address them to Morris Dees?

With regard to your question about "Israel right or wrong?" How about just the first half? What if I think "Israel [is] right?" What if it actually is? What if this is why I support it? The wrongs you describe are overwhelmingly lies and propaganda. The few things that did happen are tragic but unavoidable consequences of wars, wars that Israel did not want.

I find no wrong with Israeli actions. Except maybe that they are waaay too soft and gentle, and so have not broken the necks of Fatah, Hamas, Jihad and the rest of bloody murderers who are making life impossible for Jews, Arabs, Druze, Armenians, Cherkess, Chechens, Bahai, Greeks, etc.. who live there (the media never talks about all these other people. Why? Because we have no problems with them.)

I know, you want me to condemn the country from start to finish, from its deepest roots to the tips of its leaves, to condemn its very existence. You want "Israel condemned, right or wrong!" Only then I would earn you forgiveness for being a Jew.

Forget it!

"REAL overt prejudice and hatred in america in the here and now"

Absolutely, and Islamic Thinkers Society is one major source. It's almost funny how you demand Jewish condemnation of everything that has to do with Israel, yet run away from even looking at anything that has a word "Islamic" on it. "God forbid, there might be real evil there. I would have to condemn them, God forbid." Is this not what you accuse us of? Is this not "Everything Islamic, right or wrong?"

So I am telling you again, Islamic Thinkers Society is not just some Islamic organization. There IS REAL EVIL there, in America, here and now, and in their British parent group Al-Muhajiroun (watch video www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKUoxbR9mwA), and in al-Muhajiroun's parent Hizb ut-Tahrir. Look at that video (www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO74GwUTZj4), and the video of their rally outside the Israeli consulate in midtown Manhattan on April 20, 2006, three days after a Palestinian suicide bomber killed nine people (www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OilraNY6g8), and also at their web site (islamicthinkers dot com). (They used to have a picture of the White House with black flag with "There is no God but Allah..." on it, but now they've changes it. Now it's black flag over the world.) Nobody is asking you to physically walk into their mosque. But Look at the sites, if you dare. Or else stop accusing us of not doing what you dare not do yourself.

In 1920s and 30s huge crowds of progressives, led by some of the smartest people of Europe and America (Romain Rolland, George Bernard Shaw, Leon Feuchtwanger, Stephan Zweig, Howard Fast, etc., etc. etc. all went to bow to Comrade Stalin. Even though reports of Stalin's atrocities circulated in Europe and America since early 1030s, they refused to believe them. It took the official recognition in the XXII Communist Party Congress for them to acknowledge what conservatives knew all along. However, they soon found new figures to idolize: Mao, Castro, etc. Time passed, and some of these too were exposed for committing even worse deeds than Stalin. No matter, they just found new idols. Now Che Guevara is popular. Some even condemn Castro but admire Guevara, not realizing they are from the same bunch.

Would I be permitted to say that these admirers, at least the ones who fell for it again and again, were suckers?

Today I have read this advice from North Vietnam's General Giap to Yasser Arafat:

"Stop talking about annihilating Israel, and instead turn your terror war into a struggle for human rights. Then you will have the American people eating out of your hand."

Is it possible that those who are eating from the bloody hands of Giap, Arafat, or whoever else, are suckers?

Is it possible that you are one of them?

Ron and Silvaro,

"How do we live in peace with one another?"

We don't. And never will.
Sorry

(Daily Alert, December 13, 2007). Over eighty percent (82%) of American Jews agree that ‘the goal of the Arabs is not the return of occupied territories but rather the destruction of Israel’. Only 12% of Jews disagree. And 55% to 37% do not believe Israel and its Arab neighbors will settle their differences and live in peace. On the key issue of a compromise on the key issue of Jerusalem, by 58% to 36% American Jews REJECT an Israeli compromise to insure a framework for permanent peace.

Given the high salience of being pro-Israel for the majority of American Jews and the fact that the source of their identity stems more from their loyalty to Israel than to the Talmud or religious myths and rituals, then it is clear that both the ‘progressive, majority of Jews and the reactionary minority who head up all the major American Jewish organizations have a fundamental point of agreement and convergence: SUPPORT and IDENTITY with ISRAEL and its anti-Arab prejudices, its expansion and the dispossession of Palestine. This overriding convergence allows the reactionary Presidents of the Major Jewish Organizations in America to speak for the Jewish community with virtually NO OPPOSITION from the progressive majority either within or without their organizations. By raising the Israeli flag, repeating clichés about the ‘existential threat’ to Israel at each and every convenient moment, the majority of Jews have bowed their heads and acquiesced or, worst, subordinated their other ‘progressive’ opinions to actively backing the leaders ‘identity’ with Israel. Their franchise on being the recognized Jewish spokespeople intimidates and/or forces progressive Jews to publicly abide to the line that ‘Israel (sic) knows what is best for Israel’ and by extension for all American Jews who identify with Israel.

A second important factor in undermining progressive American Jewish activity against US-Israeli war policy in the Middle East (Lebanon, Iran, Iraq and Palestine) is the influence of Israeli public opinion.
A Haaretz report (December 9, 2007) documents a civil rights poll showing that ‘Israel has reached NEW HEIGHTS OF RACISM…’, citing a 26% rise in anti-Arab incidents (Association for Civil Rights in Israel Annual Report for 2007).
The report cites the DOUBLING of the number of Jews expressing feelings of HATRED to Arabs.

FIFTY PERCENT of Israeli Jews OPPOSE EQUAL RIGHTS for their Arab compatriots. According to a Haifa University study, 74% of Jewish YOUTH in Israel think that ARABS are ‘UNCLEAN’.

While a majority of American Jews may voice private progressive opinions, their commitments based on their identity as Jews rests with the State of Israel and its principal mouthpieces in the US.

http://petras.lahaine.org/articulo.php?p=1723&more=1&c=1

Providence,

It looks like this is going to be very long, so here are a few limits.

I am not interested in a general philosophical discussion, which will come to conclusion that life sucks or we will all die anyway. I can have a conversation like this with Silvaro, but not with you. I want something practical.

One can arrive to all kinds of things by remote philosophizing. Someone here has described main Jewish holidays as calls for genocide. Someone else might describe Christianity as a call for cannibalism (Eucharist, you know). One can talk about all mammals, people included, as cannibals (what is breast milk?) Etc., etc., etc.

There are professors who spend their entire lives defending points like these. I am not judging it totally wrong, although I hate when a religion (any religion) is demonized. (Yes, Islam too. I hate Islamofascists, not Muslims.) I am just saying that such speculations are impractical.

I too once engaged in such speculations (though mine were not offensive to anyone.) I found a way to "prove" that people can fly. Just by themselves, without equipment. When I told it to my father, he said, "Wonderful logic. And now, please demonstrate."

You mention the pitfalls of moral relativism. But I am very aware aware of the other pitfall: a double-standard. The Jewish people have been subjected to this since time immemorial. Here is an example:

"on my birthday in 1972, which happened to be two days after the murder of Israeli athletes in the Munich Olympics, our neighbor said: 'That's not such a big deal. They only killed Jews.'" (from Interview with Zeev Geizel).

There are thousands - no, million of examples like this. We are routinely judged to a standard never achieved by anyone in human history, moreover, entirely unachievable. We are human beings, after all, we are mortal, we need food and ground under our feet, we need shelter, we experience pain and try to avoid it, etc. We are not angels, and will always fall short of demands to be angelic, wherever these demands come from. And if we fall short of demands to be angels, that still does not mean that we should be treated worse than dogs.

Unfortunately, I see no way to be practical or to secure the conversation against double-standards without some kind of demonstration, some kind of comparison. So, in order to keep it practical, let's select just one other country and see whether your logic makes it also a failure. The country I would like to select is the United States of America. Can we both agree that the US is not a failure? If not, if you think it is a failure, I doubt we should continue this conversation, because we will merely end up in your word against mine - "yes it is" - "no it isn't," which is endless and pointless.

But if we agree that the US is not a failure, let's see whether the logic which makes Israel a failure would also make America a failure. If so, the logic, or the assumptions, or the facts must be faulty. Like in any science other than math, if a properly set up experiment shows something unexpected, the fault must be in the theory.

I apologize for all this, but I've been taught by bitter experience with humanity to expect dirty tricks and unpleasant surprises everywhere, especially in everything that concerns my being Jewish.

If you agree to all this, fire away.

If I have a fault in my logic, point it out.

Wow!!!
By the comments I have been reading, I believe Humanity has much to learn. We all need to remember to reflect on the past and learn what we can all do to better the future of our world.

We must remember the holocaust, not only for the sake of those who perished, but also for those who still live and for those who will be born into this world.

We, as human beings living in this world, all have an obligation to remember the Holocaust and to contemplate it, because it presents the most significant moral problem of the modern era. When one person believes that their religion, race, or sex is superior than the next human being, and acts on it in a violent (physical or mental) manner, you end up with the makings of a potential holocaust.

I have three questions I would like to ask everyone who is commenting on this blog.
How do we learn from the past atrocities and afflictions one human being may cause to another, so we make it that history does not repeat itself?

How do we live in peace with one another?

What can we do today to make this world a better world to live in for everyone?

As you read on, please remember I am not a poet or writer and have been up all night thinking about what Arun Gandhi wrote. I am just a human being who cares about the world we live in.

May we all have the compassion to care and the courage to act.

This is a world of much greatness and much sadness.
This is a world of the mighty pen and the mighty sword.
This is a world made up of all religious beliefs, races and sexes.
Remember, this is a world that we must all share and live in.

Thank you for reading,
Ron

Thank you dear "respectable" politically correct and institutionally antisemitic "newspaper" Washington Post for having has the guts to CENSOR my previous comments. It is by all means appanrent that you are not a responsible paper but a cheap, fascistoid propaganda sheet of the gutter press, in my view. The celebration of such "academics" like Arun niemand Gandhi and the sycophantic cuddling and embracing of such Muslim fundamentalist "thinkers" like Tariq Ramadan just completely reaffirms and reinforces my case against your paper.
Just censor my comment if you have the guts you NIEMANDS...
Just CENSOR my comments. But no crybabies, do not cry a river in other cases politically oh so correct "Washington Post" to "believe in free spach"... 'Cause no one in his/her right mind would believe to such propagators of FASCISM like you Washington Post...

Gabor Fränkl
Budapest, Hungary
Central-Europe

Peacemonger.

I had a few witty comments, then realized they are waaaay beyond your brain level.

Just follow jojo.

The answer to all the half baked ill informed comments on the Mahatma is in his observation“I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent.”' This is an universal truth. Violence only begets violence. However the blog was NOT written by the Mahatma who was murdered by a blind fanatic in 1948, the likes of which we see in abundance even today, but by his grandson, so the comments should be directed at him and not at Mahatma or on India. As the singer Jim Morrison stated, "'Violence isn't always evil. What's evil is the infatuation with violence.” So before we indulge in verbal violence against those who critize us please think rationally!

ATTENTION INDIA!

ATTRNTION INDIA!

ATTENTION Mr. GANDHi, et al;

Please see this Expose via Dr. WALID via the 'BHARATIYA PRAGNA' Publication.

Your Nation is been infiltrated & soon, internal Revolts & mass Killings will result!

You cannot stop this TRUTH (Opposite of MYTH).

It's only a matter of time.

http://plateauofiran.wordpress.com/2007/07/12/islamic-concept-of-al-taqiyah-lying-deception/

Important Prediction: Like Sri Lanka [Ceylon[ today, India Major is also going to be Divided even further via "Islamic [ZIONISM, not Yuddula] "AL TAQIYA".

History is O.U.R. JURY!

Throw out ALL ISLAMICS from your Nation now & deport them to SAUDI-Arabia [the Al-Taqiyah VINTRILOQUISTS behind All Muslom Curses]. And

since they Love-Attention, Drop an Atomic Bomb over, The Pakistan-Afghan border where HEROIN, OPIUM, Russian/Chinese AK-47's etc.. is being traded, that keeps them Strong & well financed) and is thee hiding place for al-Qaida leaderships like Punkarino Osama Aladins Lamps, so to speaketh, and his top krony's & deputy Ayman al-Zawahri etc..

That area, in Afghanistan is the staging ground for Taliban/A;-Qaeda/Muhajeen militants planning attacks on coalition forces in Afghanistan.

If you destroy (be Persistant) All their OPIUM/HEROIN/MARAJUANNA Fields, then Your Nation & or the WESTERN Nations will destroy all them Hash & Koranaholics Ragg-Heads! It's tantamount to 'cutting-off' the PETRO of the Enemies. Hint: This is how we & the AXIS's defeated the GERMANS & JAPS in both WW I/II.

Please: just 1 10Megatons! All fighting will surely end! No more War! Please: Thank You!

OR: Tell them to Lay-Down & unstoxk their Weapons or else there will be Five Atom Bombs Droped in various areas of Afghanistan.

INCAMERA (Secret), AFGHANISTAN is PAKISTAN & PAKISTAN is AFGHANISTAN Stupid! Wake Up from you Dillusion Illusion Stupor!

After reading the comments I can conclude that the type of supporters you attract Mr Gandhi are rabid Jew haters. I think that says it all.

Not that anyone is bothering to read any longer, but here is my opinion…

I don’t know about anyone else but this whole thing sounds like kids on a playground … they started it! … did not! you stuck your tongue out at us! … did not you looked at us cross eyed! … did not!… each protest getting louder and more nit pickingly ridiculous. The only difference is that kids on a playground don’t have weapons that could destroy the entire world.

Whether you agree with Mr. Gandhi or not the fact remains that the fighting needs to stop. Like it or not he has made a valid … although some don’t see it … point. If the situation there does not change it can eventually bring about the destruction of us all. If you doubt this just look back at the hatred and animosity that has been posted here. Imagine if those words were nuclear weapons. Think about the out come of such an exchange in terms of bombs. Where would we be right now?

Everyone is so busy choosing sides, spouting that this side has been wronged and how. I have yet seen anyone stop to consider that in a situation such as this there are no absolute rights or wrongs. Each side has valid complaints as well as its share of mistakes.

The reality is that regardless of what took place in the past we have to deal with the here and now. It does no good to say this should have been done or that would have been the better option. Hindsight is always 20/20 but it doesn’t change things one iota. Look at what you have at hand, use common sense, deal reasonably with one another, and move ahead. This “oh poor us” attitude is only going to escalate matters into all out war, and we all know where that will lead.

BTW this would go for the currant situation that the U.S. is in as well. Regardless as to what some believe the United States is not the “World Police” and is not responsible for “correcting” what they see as the “misbehavior” of the rest of the world. The United Nations was created to handle these things … let them. Americans need to get over this idea that they are always “right” because they are not.

And to answer the question before it’s asked … I am an American.

No concessions of land for peace,when a man's ways please the Lord he maketh even his enemies to be at peace with him.Be bold be courageous giant slayers.
Give up none of your land that was taken fairly in pure and self-defensive battles.Pastor B Stokes

An ethically challenged man has let us down,he claims to know much,but it is very evident,by his post,that he understands very little.
It is painful to see him in a position of leadership
in an institute for nonviolence.He has unnessarily
offended many Jews and non-Jews.Mr.Arun is trapped in a world of illusion.

Mr.Arun Gandhi you have managed to attract this imbecile "Peacemongrel".I don't understand what he is on about,but then neither does he.
Somehow I feel that you two speak the same language.
He even has a blog,now all he needs is a brain to go with it.

Whats going on in Middle East is fault and hpocracy of both Israelis and Palestinian leaders,innocent people on both sides are apying the price,to me politicians of both ISRAEL & PALESTINE are not sincere in peace.I think its waste of time to discuss this because its up to both countries leadership to solve this problem,I dont belive in any religion because to me religions are main bone of contentions,lets sepaate religion from politics and half of the world problems will be solved.

I wonder what were his motives for writing such a nasty post,it is blatantly biased,most of it is garbled,and he had to rewrite it.
He should be nominated for the IDIOT OF THE YEAR.

I wonder what were his motives for writing such a nasty post,it is blatantly biased,most of it is garbled,and he had to rewrite it.
He should be nominated for the IDIOT OF THE YEAR.

Mr. Arun Gandhi probably does not know that Kamal Ataturk who abolished Caliphate was a Jew too and this is part of long conspiracy against Caliphate and World Muslims for which World Muslims are victims today.

Source: Rabbi Joachim Prinz, Ex President American Jewish Congress in his famous book The Secret Jews

Mr. Arun Gandhi probably does not know that Kamal Ataturk who abolished Caliphate was a Jew too and this is part of long conspiracy against Caliphate and World Muslims for which World Muslims are victims today.

Source: Rabbi Joachim Prinz, Ex President American Jewish Congress in his famous book The Secret Jews

Kurtlane,

Yes, your assumption is correct.

You want more than I can provide. I can only provide proof that: Israel is a failed state - founded illegally and immorally.

Let's do that - in the interest of clarity and in an effort to avoid the pitfalls of moral relativism.

Let's save:
"Sudan, Haiti, Columbia, Bolivia, Peru, Venezuela, Cuba, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Burma, Azerbaijan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Albania, Uganda, Zimbabwe, Rwanda, Chad, Mauritania, Central African Republic, Somalia, Democratic Republic of Congo, Mali" for another time.

I use the Socratic method. You may be embarrassed , but you will be a much better person for having participated.

Shall I continue?

Providence

The only thing that would have made the older gandhi roll in his grave is why the world gives Israel a free pass to massacre Palestinians and drive them from their homes.

All I can say is, as the grandson of the great Gandhi, you must make your grandfather roll in his grave. You are so typical of the bigoted and racist creeps who lurk all over, who spout hatred only to have to retract it when others enlighten you to your full vile hatred. We don't need others like you.

"Whine,whine,whine. Want Cheese with that?"

whoa -better dust the cobwebs off that. you should srsly get your act together, oldster.

"... While we must strive for a future of peace that rejects violence, it is also important not to forget the past, lest we fail to learn from it. Having learned from it, we can then find the path to peace and rejection of violence through forgiveness."

Israel has good relations with Germany, because Germany has been able to confront the demons in its own past. The Arab/Muslim world glorifies violent jihad; to it the Crusades are still alive and active more than 500 years after they ended. People who believe they will receive some transcendent reward for violent death will find excuses to inflict it.

Israel wants peace with its neighbors...what a joke. I'm guessing that cluster bombs Israel showered on southern lebabnon were flowers? The 1,000 plus civilian deaths were from jewish love? Get a clue, world. If hizbolla didn't hand them their @sses, Lebabnon would be under Israeli control like in the 80s.

Mr. Ghandi,

even a child knows that "I'm sorry, but. . ." is not any kind of apology. And why the silence towards those who heave rockets at Sderot and blow up buses full of civilians? What do you ask of them?

Mr. Gandhi's comments, both in his original blog and in his "apology" are hurtful and blatantly untrue. As a Jew, I can assure you that the Jewish people are committed to peace, with friends and enemies alike. Ignoring the logical fallacy of associating everything the state of Israel does to the entire Jewish people, Israel has been put in an impossible situation. It is surrounded by enemies; people who do not want peace with a Jewish state. It is therefore logical that Israel would arm itself as best it can. Israel has already been directly attacked by its neighbors three times, and Arab aggression can account for the rest of the region's conflicts as well. To place blame solely on the Jewish state is anti-Semitic. It takes two people to have a fight.

As for Mr. Gandhi's assertion that Jews "live in the past" with regard to the Holocaust, I concede that some Jewish groups place heavy emphasis on the Second World War. It was, after all, the biggest event of the twentieth century, and the biggest act of genocide against Jews ever. It is natural that we remember it, especially since some are already attempting to deny or dilute the memory of the Holocaust. It would seem that if we (the Jews) do not remember this monstrous crime nobody will.

The old dead Gandhi praised Hitler to the skies and suggested that the Jews commit collective suicide as a response to oppression. So what is really new?

What you should apologise for is getting your facts wrong.

One problem is your perfectly (to be blunt) stupid attribution of Israel and Jews (whether they are a minority or majority of Jews is irrelevant) at the centre of world violence.

There are other problems that your apology does not address, but lets be plain here: you haven't hurt anyone's feelings so much as propagated bigotry. That's what you need to apologise for.

But you won't, I think.

Bierbelly, my apologies.

In all this mess with all sorts of idiocies flying around it’s not always easy to notice which ones are sarcastic and which are genuine.

Again, apologies,
Kurtlane

According to Aristotle, a vital principle guides the development, functioning or evolution of an organism or a hierarchy of beings. This vital principle resulted in life-finding expression first as unicellular and multi-cellular organisms, then as plants, thereafter as birds and animals, and ultimately as humans, as sapient and sentient beings. According to Aristotelian theory, humans are the most evolved form of thinking and feeling beings so far. Moreover, we have the potential to grow, evolve into the spiritual dimension and be self-aware.

So, let us all stop being Jews, Christians, Muslims, Pagans, Hindus, Buddhists, Jains, Zoroastrians, Agnostics, Atheists etc. and be good human beings! Let us live in peace and harmony!

To HAPPINESS & PEACE!!

Providence,

I assume you mean the quote “Israel is a failed state - founded illegally and immorally - we are not surprised at the past (60 years), present, and future prospects.”

Yes, I’d like to see some proof. In particular, I’d like to see how Israel is more of a failed state than any of the following:

Sudan, Haiti, Columbia, Bolivia, Peru, Venezuela, Cuba, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Burma, Azerbaijan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Albania, Uganda, Zimbabwe, Rwanda, Chad, Mauritania, Central African Republic, Somalia, Democratic Republic of Congo, Mali.

I have some friends from Georgia, and they told me, “If only Georgia were as orderly, as civil, as prosperous as Israel...”

Hell, I’ve been to Brazil, and I was amazed at the crime level there. Merely being there is dangerous. I was attacked, my friend was attacked, the bus he rode to work was shot at. I also saw slavery there. Yes, real slavery. There is nothing like that in Israel. (I've been there too.)

And as for the American aid to Israel, it’s only 3% of Israel’s budget.

"Guilt By Geography" Oh, that is Funny! Ha Ha Ha haaaaaaaaa! Ha!

Wow Momma!

How should I take this? As if you didn't understand the English language the day you wrote that post? There is *no way* you can pull that viscious screed back. "Poorly worded".... Too honest? Apparently you spend to much time around yes-men or speaking with people who despise Israel and Jews -- you didn't realize important people disagreed, did you? And now you want to take it back. Pathetic. Do something virtuous and disappear from public life.

Victoria-

You spend an inordinate amount of time defending islam and commenting on many threads on the wapo forums.

Now you are suddenly incapable of commenting because you -don't know your local fellow muslims?

Readers- Please view the utube of Victoria's neighborly muslim's ripping up the American flag as they yell for islam's dominance over all America. It is a good example of the religion of peace's mission in America.

"pikey" = slur

queens is a big area-

i dont know those people- to comment on them-

how is asking if it is a crime to live in queens (guilt by geography?) a slur?

Victoria-

Please comment on the words and actions of your neighborhood co-religionists, before you start with slurs and false accusations.

Watch the utube and Learn the TRUTH-

"REAL overt prejudice and hatred in america in the here and now"

livng in queens is a crime now?

at this very moment its time for jummah-

(muslim congregational services)

and i sitting here in my home-

should i go find that mosque on youtube and conflate division?

i think ill go write that check to the southern pverty law center instead.

pikey

now here will be an interesting education for our jewish friends on this board-
just MENTION islam and watch how the hate inflates!

(actually no one even mentioned islam)

watch and learn
REAL overt prejudice and hatred in america in the here and now

go to any muslim panelist and see the extreme violence proposed against muslims

that is why i have little patience with ANY complaints about prejudice, anti-semitism in the abstract
theres plenty of real xenophobia to go around to contend with

The apology that Mr. Gandhi needs to offer is for being essentially clueless about what is happening in the Middle East. It is not Israeli aggression that is causing the tidal wave of violence throughout the region; Israel is simply located at the heart of a region where violence is endemic. To blame Israelis, never mind Jews, for defending themselves demonstrates an incredibly low level of understanding.

If he wishes to make a contribution to world peace, or even just peace in the region, Mr. Gandhi needs to identify the real source of violence there: the Islamist conviction that they are entitled to impose their notion of Islam on the rest of the world.

"im happy where i am in new york and am not going anyhwere"

Yes. The American Islamic Propagandist- Victoria has stated many times tht she lives in Queens, NY:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO74GwUTZj4

from the utube link:

"A group of American Muslims produced a video that shows its members on a New York City street corner declaring Islam's dominance over America as they tread on a U.S. flag and then rip it apart.

In the video, released by the Queens, New York-based Islamic Thinkers Society, one of the Muslims is shown placing a sign on the flag that says, "Oh Muslims! Do you know your enemy? Isn't it obvious?"

The group, tied to the British jihadist organization Al-Muhajiroun, said the demonstration was "in response to the desecration of the holy Quran by the Crusaders & Zionists at Guantanamo Bay," an allegation based on a retracted Newsweek story.

The five-minute piece begins with a man speaking in clear English: "Just to show where our loyalty belongs to -- you see this flag here? It's going to go on the floor [sic]. And to us, our loyalty does not belong to this flag, our loyalty belongs to Allah ... ."

The speaker then shifts to Arabic and members can be heard shouting the familiar "Allahu Akbar," or "Allah is greatest."

Later, after noting he has a legal permit for the demonstration, the speaker shouts, "You Muslims who are hiding in your houses, don't be afraid. Come and join us. Join us in the revival of all Islam. ... Join us to revive the Muslims from darkness into light."

Another speaker refers to the mandate for "Islam to dominate over all other religions, to dominate the world, even though the non-Muslims may hate it."

On its website, the Islamic Thinker's Society explains:
"This video is of our first demonstration out of a series of city-wide demonstration that was planned in response to the desecration of the holy Quran by the Crusaders & Zionists at Guantanamo Bay. In this video, we were exposing the truth to the public about the real story behind the desecration of the Qur'an. Also, this was done to rise the Muslim Communities up and unite under one cause. That is to expose the agenda of the Crusaders & Zionists and their war on Islam which many still do not see today.

Author and researcher Robert Spencer, who posted a link to the video on his weblog Jihad Watch, commented that Muslim lobby groups such as the Washington-based Council on American-Islamic Relations have helped foster an environment that discourages criticism of such actions.

"... [I]f we even ask how many Muslims in America think this way, CAIR will bellow about discrimination and Islamophobia," Spencer writes. "So attention is diverted from activities such as what is shown in this video, and they can continue unheeded."

The Islamic Thinkers Society is an off-shoot of Al-Muhajiroun, a British jihadist group that publicly raised funds for Hamas and has been suspected of facilitating transportation of British Muslims to fight U.S. troops overseas.

Al-Muhajiroun spiritual leader Sheik Omar Bakri Muhammad has called on the British Muslim community to join Hamas.

Under pressure from UK authorities, Al-Muhajiroun claimed it disbanded in October, but security sources say leaders still are active in London and the U.S.

As WorldNetDaily reported, Al-Muhajiroun openly maintains a branch in Queens that claims to be involved in "only peaceful activities." The group holds closed-door meetings and study sessions at a mosque in Jackson Heights, Queens, led by an older cleric identified as Sheikh Choudray.

The Queens branch youth leader, Abu Yousuf, a U.S. citizen who says he attended a "camp" in Sudan and takes computer courses at the City University of New York, speaks at university events throughout New York City usually sponsored by the Muslim Student Association.

At one Al-Muhajiroun event at Queensborough Community College sponsored by the MSA and attended by WND, a Muhajiroun speaker working with Yousuf said, "We reject the U.N., reject America, reject all law and order. Don't lobby Congress or protest because we don't recognize Congress! The only relationship you should have with America is to topple it!"

The speaker continued, "The so-called terrorists are the only people who truly fear Allah. ... They are the only worthy causes, and the mighty superpower only fears them."

In a private interview with WND, a Queens based Al-Muhajiroun leader said he would be "absolutely honored" to give up his life in a "martyr operation" against American civilians. The leader warned that "a jihad is coming to America because of the moves of the Bush administration."

Last year, Al-Muhajiroun planned a convention in London titled, "The Choice is in Your Hands: Either You're with the Muslims or with the Infidels," to mark the third anniversary of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

In 2003, the group had planned a similar anniversary event called "The Magnificent 19 [Suicide Attackers]," but canceled it at the last minute."

happy everyday jacob

Mr. Gandhi's comments on the "Jewish identity" are inexcusable at many levels, and the Post must be condemned for failing to adhere to it's own stated policy of removing from its web site "personal attacks or other inappropriate comments...."

First, what possible good can come from generalizing about the identity of an entire ethnic group--this mindset fosters precisely the sort of we/they perspective that has resulted in so many large-scale atrocities, including the holocaust, Rwanda, the extermination of native Americans, etc...

Further, to be so callous as to label the holocaust as a "German burden that the Jews have not been able to shed" brings into question whether Mr. Gandhi possesses sufficiently good judgment to speak on behalf of an organization dedicated to carrying on the work of his grandfather. Who is Mr. Gandhi to say how those who were subjected to years of horror, and their families, should deal with such overwhelming pain. I would have expected some greater sensitivity from someone who espouses nonviolence in all things, including, presumably, how we judge others.

Mr. Gandhi's command of history is equally flawed--his presumptuous, one-sentence description of the cause of the holocaust reveals in its simplistic characterization the shallowness of his analysis.

Those at the Post responsible for determining to publish Mr. Gandhi's comments should be reprimanded for allowing a statement like "Israel and the Jews are the biggest players" in creating a culture of violence, which is "eventually going to destroy humanity." If that is what the Post is bringing to the table in a discussion on faith, I am sorry to say that we are better off without the discussion.

Mr. Gandhi's comments on the "Jewish identity" are inexcusable at many levels, and the Post must be condemned for failing to adhere to it's own stated policy of removing from its web site "personal attacks or other inappropriate comments...."

First, what possible good can come from generalizing about the identity of an entire ethnic group--this mindset fosters precisely the sort of we/they perspective that has resulted in so many large-scale atrocities, including the holocaust, Rwanda, the extermination of native Americans, etc...

Further, to be so callous as to label the holocaust as a "German burden that the Jews have not been able to shed" brings into question whether Mr. Gandhi possesses sufficiently good judgment to speak on behalf of an organization dedicated to carrying on the work of his grandfather. Who is Mr. Gandhi to say how those who were subjected to years of horror, and their families, should deal with such overwhelming pain. I would have expected some greater sensitivity from someone who espouses nonviolence in all things, including, presumably, how we judge others.

Mr. Gandhi's command of history is equally flawed--his presumptuous, one-sentence description of the cause of the holocaust reveals in its simplistic characterization the shallowness of his analysis.

Those at the Post responsible for determining to publish Mr. Gandhi's comments should be reprimanded for allowing a statement like "Israel and the Jews are the biggest players" in creating a culture of violence, which is "eventually going to destroy humanity." If that is what the Post is bringing to the table in a discussion on faith, I am sorry to say that we are better off without the discussion.

The threat of another holocaust cannot be ignored. Iran has threatened Israel with its destruction. Anti-Semitism found in Arab rhetoric and media further compounds the need to remember. Perhaps one needs to read the text materials found in Arab schools about Jews should awaken all of us of potential repetition of the horrible past.

It is important to remember the history of that led us to the present crisis between the Palestinians and Israelis. Go back to the British Mandate, the Balfour Declaration, the Arab reaction and active participation with the Nazis in the destruction of the Jews.

The threat of another holocaust cannot be ignored. Iran has threatened Israel with its destruction. Anti-Semitism found in Arab rhetoric and media further compounds the need to remember. Perhaps one needs to read the text materials found in Arab schools about Jews should awaken all of us of potential repetition of the horrible past.

It is important to remember the history of that led us to the present crisis between the Palestinians and Israelis. Go back to the British Mandate, the Balfour Declaration, the Arab reaction and active participation with the Nazis in the destruction of the Jews.

The threat of another holocaust cannot be ignored. Iran has threatened Israel with its destruction. Anti-Semitism found in Arab rhetoric and media further compounds the need to remember. Perhaps one needs to read the text materials found in Arab schools about Jews should awaken all of us of potential repetition of the horrible past.

It is important to remember the history of that led us to the present crisis between the Palestinians and Israelis. Go back to the British Mandate, the Balfour Declaration, the Arab reaction and active participation with the Nazis in the destruction of the Jews.

no jacob- im of irish, french, english descent, blue eyed and born in america as were my great grandparents back to the 1700s.

my point is, and has been- if jewish people are offended by being associated automatically with israel-it is because this seems to actually be the case.

so if people said- thats an unfair assumption because im a jewish american and i dont support the actions of israel-
then it would be fair to criticize mr gandhi for his comment.

but thats not the case-

honestly, at this point- screams of anti-semitism- lke screams of any kind of bias- dont address any issues but try to silence the raising of critique.

a logical discussion would be-
mr gandhis statement is racist because he said thus- then copy it-

for instance, one poster at 12:17 at the beginning of this post offered a site called
encounterprogarams as an example of jewish people who criticize israel

there are no criticisms of israel on that site-

they are israelis who take day trips to palestine

so far, people seem to have come out in full force to support israel, yet at the same time c;aim the right to get upset if someone notices this.

which one is it?

so its also ridiculous to ask me to remove myself from my eurocentirc and mixed roots when the only way to do that whould be to go to another non-eurocentric country.
im happy where i am in new york and am not going anyhwere

Hi Mr. Ghandi - me and my many Hindu friends were wondering if you could do a piece on the violent, imperialist, and fascist policies of India and the Hindu people who have gleefully massacred Muslims over the past century and are even now stockpiling nuclear weapons in order to expand their islamophobic empire.

Perhaps you could include a piece on India's apartheid wall: http://www.genocidewatch.org/IndiaJuly30BorderFence.htm and India's Hindu supremacy which in turn has led to the ongoing attempted occupation of the Kashmir province? You could even include a section on how Hindu people (not all of them, of course, just the ones who are pro-India) don't believe Muslims are even human beings, which in turn leads them to use disproportionate force against the Muslim Pakistanis (for instance at Kargil, where in retaliation for 500 Indian Hindus dying the Indian army and air force massacred 4000 Pakistanis). In fact we have noted that in any conflict between India and Pakistan the number of Hindu casualties is always dwarfed by the number of Muslim Pakistanis who are killed. This is proof positive that the war bing fought by India on tiny Pakistan is an ideological one whose goal is Hindu supremacy and domination of its more peaceful neighbor. This belief is born out by numerous Human Rights commissions sanctions against India for the war crimes committed by its violent military against the besieged population of Pakistan. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_relations#endnote_HRW

I do hope you will take the time to address this issue, sir, as ferretting out racist and fascist states driven by fanatical religious supremacism appears to be your forte.

I happened to be in London in the summer of 2005, just two weeks after the subway bombings. I stayed at the Tavistock Hotel on Tavistock Square, where the bus was bombed. Directly across from the hotel is a small park dedicated to the memory of M.K. Gandhi. The park was filled with bouquets left in memory of the innocents killed in that blast. It struck me then as the cruelest of ironies that this crime should have been committed in that place, under the direct gaze, so to speak, of Gandhi himself, who is memorialized by a large bust that stands in the park.

The state of Israel was founded in the teeth of the clearest possible evidence that Jewish survival must be predicated on the readiness of Jews to be their own defenders; the stark lesson of history is that no other people can be depended upon to provide them protection in moments of dire need. The state's inevitable flaws and missteps, even those that have had horrific consequences, do not have meaningful impact on the question of whether the arguments for its establishment still obtain.

That a man who has dedicated his life to the pursuit of peace can take a hard look at the vicious brutality practiced in every corner of the Earth and issue the proclamation that "Israel and the Jews are the biggest players" in a "Culture of Violence [that] is eventually going to destroy humanity" demonstrates one thing very clearly: Even he whose cause is peace is ready to offer up the Jews as "the biggest players" in a movement pushing humanity itself to destruction. Not "big players," not even "some of the biggest players," but "the biggest players." It is hard to imagine a more effective incitement to anti-Jewish violence than such a claim as this.

Today Arun Gandhi writes, "I do not believe and should not have implied that the policies of the Israeli government are reflective of the views of all Jewish people." Of course, the statement that "Israel and the Jews are the biggest players" in the Culture of Violence does not *imply* anything -- it is a forthright assertion and I suspect, sadly, that it comes more from the heart than does today's retraction, which a) misstates the weight of the original claim and b) doesn't actually contradict the original claim anyway. In fact, Mr. Gandhi can maintain with no logical incongruity that "Israel and the Jews are the biggest players" in the Culture of Violence *and* that "the policies of the Israeli government are [not] reflective of the views of all Jewish people," since generalizing claims about "the Jews" can *always* accommodate a few morally acceptable exceptions who in no way invalidate the generalization.

So when a leading advocate of peace is prepared to lay blame for the world's ills, its "Culture of Violence," at the feet of "the Jews," I think we can conclude that the rationale for the founding of the state of Israel is still quite compelling, not just because of the nightmare visited against the Jews more than sixty years ago, but also because the rhetoric that led up to that nightmare flows so easily from the minds of leaders in the world we live in now.

Well, I want to thank Arun Gandhi in the name of the Israeli Defense fund.

Really, I just mailed them my $100 check.

Mr. Gandhi is an antisemite. Pure and simple.
Our long hooked noses have been trained for two millenniums to identify the putrid smell of antsemitsm.

But I want to really thank Mr. Gandhi.

Because of dime-a-dozen antisemites like Mr. Gandhi (whose only claim to fame is familial relations to a cultural icon) we are reminded that while antisemitsm has existed for 2000 years, exists today and will probably exist tomorrow, this time around the Jews can protect themselves and laugh in the face of these clowns due to the fact that Israel exists (despite the wishes of a jerk like Mr. Gandhi).

Because if they come for us (like they did in the past) now we can say:

"Praise the Lord and pass the ammo!"

An insufficient apology from Arun Ghandi and an insufficient response from Washington Post Corporation.

The original statement, published under the brand-names of the Washington Post and Newsweek, and under the names of two veteran reporters portrayed Jews as wicked people who threaten humanity. That Arun Ghandi was motivated by a dishonest and inaccurate view of the Arab-Israeli conflict (the Palestinians as innocent sufferers and the Israelis as monsters) is bad enough, but there's a bigger issue.

How could Ghandi, a putatively right-minded antiracist offer such an obvious expression of anti-Jewish racism -- an expression that will only give aid and comfort to enemies of the Jewish people (the existence of which, Arun Ghandi does not see fit to acknowledge in either his post or his apology)?

But even this isn't that much of a surprise. That one person could write such vile stuff is not unique. What is a shock is that it appeared under the constellation of trusted brand names and journalistic lights -- Newsweek, Washington Post, Jon Meacham and Sally Quinn.

A fullsome apology from Ghandi (which apparently is not forthcoming) is not enough. The Washington Post Corporation, which seeks to bring the credibility of its flagship newspaper to the internet owes its readers (and stockholders!) an explanation on how this piece was published.
And an apology.

Mr Gandhi,
Back-stepping as you have in your 'response to clarify comments about the Jewish people' sounds like the regrets of a failing leader. It is obvious that you do not have the clarity that Mohandas K. “Mahatma” Gandhi had, however, I ask the question, "What would it take for you to find the understanding necessary to regain the dignity your ancestry once held?
Barry Leneman - President Necessity Housing
Director - Prevent Hates' "Witness Humanity Program" Co-founder - Coalition for a Sustainable Africa

Watch Out for the MONGOOSE Mr. Cobra GANDHi.

What is this fool smoking? His grandfather would be ashamed of him.

Asim,

Last time I checked, our officials were elected, meaning the non-Jews chose Jews for government service. While I loathe politicians, compared to the opposition, they were all elected for their merits and the will of the people. Of course the will of the people is not always right, but it shows that at least some people can turn a blind eye to religion and elect people based off merit.

Your argument ironically just proves this if Jews are only 2% of the population, yet large chunks are voting for Jews. I think you would find the same with Muslims if they could start by stopping their own people from constantly engaging in violence.
You, sir, are a moron.

Asim,

"jews have absolutely no business staying in Arab Palestine."

Good thing they're in Israel, huh? But do you suppose the Arabs in Israel have no business staying there? BTW, "Jews" is spelled with a capital "J".

I can't wait to hear your assessment of the Palestinians, their inability to move on, indoctrinated hatred, reliance on (ineffective) violence, etc...

You might have noticed that upon having their ability to kill Israelis curtailed, the Palestinians have turned on each other. What was that you were saying about a snake pit?

Reading you, one would think this is purely a one sided problem.

In other words, Mr. Ghandi wishes only to delete the words "and the Jews" from the last sentence of his post, leaving intact, as expressing his true meaning, that Israel is the "largest player" in the culture of violence that will eventually detroy humanity. So Israel is a bigger player than the Sudan, a government that has murdered hundreds of thousands of its own citizens; and bigger than Jihadist terrorism, which daily murders innocents in Pakistan, Iraq and elsewhere. A tiny country of 6 million people whose only wish is to live, rather than die, becomes the major proponent in the world, in Mr. Ghandi's eyes, of a violent culture. This, apparently, is what he thought over, considered carefully, and then decided to reaffirm.

Att:

VICTORIA: at: 1.10.08, 10:18Am above 2nd blog from top.

YOU SAID:

".. i believe the onus is on american jews to disassociate themselves ideologically from aligning themselves with israel, right or wrong.

american jewish people, not israelis who have their own internal conflicts...

Sounds like If you are from Pakisatin Nation, or Saudi or Palesaan etc.., then it also means that "YOU" shoul alsi 'Dis-assciate' rom your own ISLAMIC country of Origin.

You are Muslom, Moslum, Moslem, Muslim .

You are SuperStupidStiious indeed! Now "i" know!

Please, The Pot [Judeo-Islamic] Calling the Kettle Black [Judeo-Ju].

Shame Shame on yu Victoria & NO Secrets either, except for the UPANISHADS [Secret wittings] that only Arun Gandhi & Company think they know!

They know GONDOO!

Perhaps Asim would kindly answer a few questions and help explain the meaning of:

"Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope."

FIRST:

Since the Qur'an states that "those who are slain in Allah's way" are not dead, but alive (3:169), has this inspired the hope that any fighter who is killed in a jihad will attain automatic salvation at death in battle and a hassle-free entrance into eternal paradise?

"Think not of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead. Nay, they live, finding their sustenance from their Lord. They rejoice in the Bounty provided by Allah...the (Martyrs) glory in the fact that on them is no fear, nor have they (cause to) grieve. They rejoice in the Grace and the Bounty from Allah, and in the fact that Allah suffereth not the reward of the Faithful to be lost (in the least)." (3:169-71)

AND

What is dar al-shuhada' (the house of martyrs)? Did the Prophet say that no one who dies and enters paradise "would wish to come back to this world," even if he were to be given ownership of "the whole world and whatever is in it," EXCEPT the martyr who, "on seeing the superiority of martyrdom, would like to come back to the world and get killed again."?

FINALLY:

Is it true that the martyr enacts the greatest act of worship possible for a human, for only he, the shahid, witnesses to, shahida, God Himself?

Arun Gandhi's absolutely appalling piece is unrelentingly mendacious, unusually malicious and utterly misguided. It recalls his illustrious grandfather's foolish advice to German Jews to submit to Nazi rule and his infamous incredibly naive letter to Hitler urging him to be nice to them. His posting has no place on a website feature supposedly intended to provide "intelligent, informed, eclectic, respectful conversation among specialist and generalists" about religion.

test testing 1 2 3.

What an interesting subject. Mr. Gandhi is a nice Man, but he cannot shine the shoes of Mahattma Gandhi!

Seems like Arun here is a Jewish Hater or is Jealous of Israeli's & America's Love for them!

Note: There was a time, not long ago when INDIA tried to make claim (Like Ethiopian 'Falashas') that they are from Jewish descent via the TELUGA Indian folks & also those from a place called Kocin, India.

Israel did not fall for such a potential influx or rush of Millions of Indians!

So Mr. Gandhi et al, are angry at Israel because they could not be had with that so called "Gandhi the man of Peace', yet Arun Gandhi is a 'COBRA' that bites it's victims , or will try via a different angle, again and again.

"i" gues KRISHNA & VISHNA & RAMMA had caused your 'Freudian Slips of Genuine Prophecy' and now you are desperate to 'patch-up' you Racist Tomes (over) !

Gandhi is a Man of Hate, not PEACE, not genuine LOVE, just 1/2 hearted & 1000 Faces!

Good bye Anti-Semite, Anti-Israel Hindu-Man!

SHOLOM!

Let's face it this Arun Gahndi's post is a load of cow dung.If his name didn't end in Gahndi no one would have noticed it,or even commented on it.He is hitch hiking on his grandfathers name.
The Americans help Israel because it is in their
self interest to do so,if it came to the crunch,
Israel would be dropped in a nano second.
So lets cut the BS,you need each other.

In my opinion it is not accidental that The Washington Post is embracing this kind of FASCIST way of speaking. The whole paper is all about politically correct Muslim a..-licking - just look at the sychophantic way of cuddling muslim fundamenatlists like Tariq Ramadan. No, dear my friends, this paper is beyond of respaectability, it is nothing more nothing less than a fascistoid and antimsemitic propaganda ragsheet of the cheapest kind. Washington Post - you can be proud of yourself!

Gabor Fränkl
Budapest, Hungary
Central-Europe

In my opinion it is not accidental that The Washington Post is embracing this kind of FASCIST way of speaking. The whole paper is all about politically correct Muslim a..-licking - just look at the sychophantic way of cuddling muslim fundamenatlists like Tariq Ramadan. No, dear my friends, this paper is beyond of respaectability, it is nothing more nothing less than a fascistoid and antimsemitic propaganda ragsheet of the cheapest kind. Washington Post - you can be proud of yourself!

Gabor Fränkl
Budapest, Hungary
Central-Europe

Shriber,
Firstly,Victoria is absloutely right.

Secondly, U also say:"I believe it is the onus of people like Victoria to disassociate themselves ideologically from all those who would want to destroy the Jewish State."

No one wants to kill the jews or destroy "tiny little israel with the most powerful army in the region and the most formidable nuclear arsenal;" rather what is required is to dismantel the evil racist apartheid miliatristic jewish theocracy and let the jewish settlers and immigrants go back to where they come from-as the case was with apartheid nuclear white south africa.

jews have absolutely no business staying in Arab Palestine. Besides there is a prosperous and powerful jewish state in the US:New York which is represented by forty three jewish members of congress-outragingly overrepresented-jews make up less than 2% of US population.

The overwhelming majority of American jews are not only guilty of but are active partners even in israel’s physical military activities against the dispossessed Palestinians and for their support for the racist apartheid militaristic jewish theocracy which was built on top of the ruins of the Palestinians who have lived in and owned Palestine since their Canaanite Arab ancestors settled it over five thousand years ago. The jewish presence and importance in and to Palestine is marginal at best except the for the fabricated and mythological history they are trying to invent in vain for the past sixty years to justify israel’s illegitimate presence in Palestine. The Arabs don’t want to kill the jews, they just want them to pack up and leave to where they come from-in peace, thou they came, invaded, occupied all of Arab historic Palestine and violently and ethnically cleansed 70% of the population of Palestine who now multiplied into over six million refugees. Only few American Jews reject isreal existence and its apartheid and brutal policies.

The creation of Israel was a historical aggression on and catastrophe for the Palestinian people and its continued and suffocating presence is an aggression par excellence in perpetuity:

1/// "Israel" never ever recognized the existence of the indigenous owners of historic Palestine: the Palestinian people.Golda Meir once said "What Palestinians?"

2// Israel never implemented a single UN resolution since its anomalous and questionable creation including UN 181 which created it-by devouring large chunks of the would be Palestine state in 1947, nor UN 194 which was and is a conditional prerequisite to UN 181 where the former dictates the return of Palestinian refugees now multiplied into seven million who are still living in refugee camps outside Palestine for the past 60 years.

3/// Jewish terrorist gangs such as Haganah, Palmach, Shtern and Argun used extreme violence to ethnically cleanse millions of Palestinians and destroyed over five hundred Palestinians villages to prevent their return as per UN 194-which 60 years later Israel still refuses to implement. Israel was built on and continues to survive on respectively gang and state terrorism. Even Israeli revisionist historians have uncovered and documented Israeli ethnic cleansing to establish the racist state in 1947.

4// No land or resources are left whatsoever for a Palestinian state: Israel occupied 78%of Arab historic Palestine in 1947/8 and 22% in 1967 (West Bank, Gaza and most importantly Jerusalem which was built by the Canaanite Arabs long before there ever were Jews on earth) AND again Israel annexed-slowly but surely by implanting settlements in full day light- over 58% of the West Bank, Gaza, and Jerusalem-leaving less than 10% of original Arab historic Palestine for a Palestinian state??? Just recently AP reported that Israel grabbed 1100 hectares of Palestinian land near Jerusalem-just before Annapolis and Israel declared immediately after it the building of 300 more cancerous units in Jerusalem.

Radicalism only begets radicalism and if the destruction of a whole nation of Palestinians and building a state on their ruins and tormenting them for over sixty years is not radicalism and terrorism-what is? Even the present Israeli defense minister Yahoud Barrack once said: “If I were a Palestinian I would be a terrorist.”

Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Fatah and others were created in response to the extremely lengthy 60-year old brutal Israeli military occupation of all of Arab historic Palestine; Hezbollah was created in response to the Israeli occupation of Lebanon from 1982 to 2000 when Israel was evicted by from Lebanon by Hezbollah.

Radicalism and oppression only beget radicalism. Yes there are an extremely small number of Muslim radicals within the peaceful overwhelming Muslim majority in the world. Those few radicals are not radical because they are Muslim (Islam by Quranic definition is a moderate and peace loving faith), rather they are radical politically: for being oppressed and tortured or occupied: Palestine, Iraq and Kashmir are only examples . Radicalism does not end by inciting hatred against the Muslim majority under the guise of focusing on radicals but by dealing with the root causes of their radicalism.

Was the American revolution against British occupation and oppression, terrorism? Was it right for the British to describe George Washington as a terrorist or and a radical; was the French resistance against nazi invasion and occupation terrorism? Radical and warmongers should stop taking America for a ride at the expense of American blood and treasure-while Israel and its supporters enjoy the free show.

"i believe the onus is on american jews to disassociate themselves ideologically from aligning themselves with israel, right or wrong. am..." Victoria

I believe it is the onus of people like Victoria to disassociate themselves ideologically from all those who would want to destroy the Jewish State.

Personally, while not endorsing everything Israel or any other government does believe that the violence being perpetrated on the citizens of Israel by Victoria’s friends is responsible for the most of the violence in the area.

Israel has a right and a duty to protect its citizens.

Non violence can lead to more violence rather than a cessation of violence. No one has the right to tell other people not to defend themselves.

Just think - if Mohandas K. “Mahatma” Gandhi had followed his own advice during World War II, and had been born Jewish, YOU wouldn't be here today.

Keep that in mind when talking about how people should be left defenseless in the face of those who have specifically stated (even in their "constitution") that they want to kill every Jew alive.

Joe said: "The Jews are vastly more civilised than any of you - and they always have been."

This comment has to be the most amusing of all coming, as it does, in a sea of vitriol directed at a man who was trying to apologize; and coming, as it does, in the wake of Israel announcing its intention to increase settlements in the occupied territories...immediately after Annapolis.

That latter point speaks not only to the issue of "civilized" behavior, but belies all of the apologetics above about Israel desperately wanting peace with its neighbors.

Israel's announcement also provides an opportunity, though. It's an opportunity for all of those American Jews claiming to be "critical" supporters of Israel to demonstrate their "civility" and commitment to peace by demanding that Congress withhold all aid to Israel until it stops building--and begins dismantling--all of the settlements.

Indeed, given that all rational observers recognize the settlements as a tremendous burden on American foreign policy and on America's security, Israel's announcement provides an opportunity for American Jews to demonstrate not only their civility and commitment to peace, but to further demonstrate that, contrary to popular perception, they actually are more committed to their neighbors' safety and security than to Israel's.

Well, Joe, what do you think? Are you confident that this vast and timeless reservoir of Jewish civility will win out? Or, are we more likely to continue to suffer the outrage of tribalistic nonsense?

Sadly, given the comments above, and given the bulk of American Jewry's long-standing and rabid political support for Israel (causing unconditional support from the American government), I'm betting on the latter.

As a final point, I can only assume that Joe's experiences of what it means to be "civilized" are rather limited if he really think that Jews are the most civilized demographic group on the planet. One only needs to compare New York and Tel Aviv to, say, Oslo and Stockholm to recognize what a preposterous proposition that is.

That this man is a simple antisemite is a no-brainer and not even worth commenting on. What is really at issue is the editorial staff of the Washingtonpost which sanctions such garbage by giving it a voice. No doubt they would counter that they are simply promoting free speech, so I suppose we can soon expect an opinion from David Duke.

Would Mr. Arun Gandhi like to tell us how his pacificism would have saved the lives of six million Jews from Nazism? And how the anti-semitism which brought it about might be eradicated.It would be an 'historic' moment indeed if anti-semitism of the sort he deals in could be eradicated once and for all. The great Indian writer Nirad Chaudhuri would have called this pacificism 'humbug'. Passive resistence may have helped to defeat British colonialism,but can we suppose it would have helped the Jews defeat the Roman empire? Can we lay the blame on a Jewish failure 2000 years old? They were conquered, enslaved and driven from their homeland.Their survival today and their contribution to humanity's progress in the fields of medicine and science alone are truly heroic. Shame on you Arun Gandhi for your humbug and your lack of humanity.

TO SAGITHA FROM MUMBAI

Small correction from a concerned INDIAN

Majority or RSS have high regards for Israel[for obvious reasons]. Not all Indians.

Mr. Gandhi,

I recall it was your grandfather who recommended the same approach to the Jews of Germany in the early 30's. I quote...

If I were a Jew and were born in Germany and earned my livelihood there, I would claim Germany as my home even as the tallest gentile German may, and challenge him to shoot me or cast me in the dungeon; I would refuse to be expelled or to submit to discriminating treatment . And for doing this, I should not wait for the fellow Jews to join me in civil resistance but would have confidence that in the end the rest are bound to follow my example. If one Jew or all the Jews were to accept the prescription here offered, he or they cannot be worse off than now. And suffering voluntarily undergone will bring them an inner strength and joy which no number of resolutions of sympathy passed in the world outside Germany can.

I agree with you that we must not forget the past, lest we fail to learn from it. In the past Gandhi condemned Israel's creation and instead suggested that the Jews of Germany and France think of themselves as German and French. He recommended that they fight any discrimination there with civil demonstrations and non-violence, saying that their "suffering voluntarily undergone" would "bring them an inner strength and joy."

I would ask you if the experiences of those who followed your grandfather's advice was so successful that you see fit to offer it yet again. I wonder if those who walked like lambs to the slaughter found the "inner joy" so casually promised them?

I also can't help but notice that for all the strife in Israel, it is but a drop in the sea compared to the violence present in the country your grandfather founded. You have accused the Jews, and Israel by proxy, of being the biggest players in the culture of violence. It seems that you might do well to take your own advice and recall India's history, before condemning Israel's. I look at partition, and the violence that has plagued your countrymen in recent years and I wonder how you can see the Jews as the biggest players in violence. I mean, have you ever BEEN to India, Pakistan or Bangladesh?

You criticize Israel for not befriending those who hate her. Perhaps you should bring this message to your enemies in Pakistan. When I hear news of you walking to Karachi with your hands open proclaiming love to Musharraf, I will consider loving Nasrallah. Till then, mind your own business.

I am disappointed in Ghandi's statements. He clearly supports a double standard by accusing Israel and Jews of holding tightly to weapons and bombs for their survival. he should take a look in the mirror. India is a nuclear power, with one of the largest armies in the world. I doubt Ghandi, were he in the position to do so, would relinquish India's nuclear stockpile and disband the Indian army and their vast weapons arsenal. If he did, India's adversaries, including Pakistan, al-qaeda, and other radical extremist elements would not hesitate to impose their values on the Indian nation. I also think your apology is too little and too late. Sadly, your true feelings of Jews and Israel came out in the first blog, as is often the case when so-called intellectuals make blunders such as this.

Christ, not another one of those blame the Joos post.
Arun if you want to be noticed write something very very nasty about the Joos.It doesn't need to be relevant,or truthful,or accurate, just make it up as you go along.And do not forget that the more hate you pour into it the better.
There will always people of your ilk who will cheer you on.Your grand-father would have been very proud of you..... Jarred Malone Darwin Australia.............

What is to blame for the Palestinian culture of violence and hatred and their mainly self-imposed/Arab-imposed misery?

Since its founding in 1928, the Muslim Brotherhood (Hizb al-Ikhwan al-Muslimun) has profoundly influenced the political life of the Middle East. Its motto is reveals its heart and purpose:

"Allah is our objective. The Prophet is our leader. The Qur'an is our law. Jihad is our way. Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope."

Arun Gahndi is obviously an anti-semite. He accuses Israel of having a cult of violence.Arab extremists constantly are trying to blow up Israeli civilians.Many men woman and children have died from Palestinian terrorists.But he prefers that the Jew should turn the other cheek and help those same people develop their lands.Oh and lets forget the Holocaust already and the Jews are making everybody feel so guilty.
It doesnt say much for Newsweek and the Washington Post that they posted this. I'm just surprised that the New York Times was not involved.

"Mr. Ghandi's apology, unfortunately, leaves a great deal to be desired. His attempt to apologize by drawing a distinction between the Israeli government and "other Jews" is a much used and failed device by anti-Semites to explain away their offensive language when they get caught."

To try and strike a conciliatory, if guarded, note, he actually comes from a place where Israel is presented *as* the same thing as the Jews in the region.

He probably ought to look to that, but that's actually how folks talk.

I feel disgusted after reading this post,I can't believe that an Indian actually wrote it.If that wasn't bad enough.Gandhi's grandson wrote it.
I can't apologize for Arun Gandhi,but I can say that the majority of the Indians do not feel about the Jews and Israel the same way that this Arun does.
In fact Israel is regarded very highly in India.

After reading Arun Gandhi's post I concluded that he isn't sorry for a single word that he wrote.It is a shameful post.He should be preaching this sermon to his own grandfather's land.
He is craving a bit of publicity,the same as Britney Spears,and Paris Hilton do.
Like Paris Hilton he too floats on his famous forebearer.
Arun Gandhi is trying to create an identity for himself.It's a very nasty and shameful way of doing it.A useless rant from a "so-called intellectual"

kurtlane
bless you for your lucidity and clarity!

one wonders if Ghandi's advice to the Kashmiri Pandits victims of Pakistani jihad , would be- just offer your throats and die.

what horrific hypocrisy indeed

Sometime, "treat" yourself to the volumes of evidence which were cataloged for the Nuremburg trials. There's about 30 volumes. I had an independent research project during law school on certain aspects of the Nuremburg trials, which is why I'm aware of them. Ghoulish.

Mr. Ghandi's apology, unfortunately, leaves a great deal to be desired. His attempt to apologize by drawing a distinction between the Israeli government and "other Jews" is a much used and failed device by anti-Semites to explain away their offensive language when they get caught.

Lets understand a few facts. The Israeli people elect their goverment. It is a democracy. There are times in every democracy when people disagree with a positon taken by their elected leader. So is the case in Israel.

Israel lives in a very bad neighborhood, with some pretty bad neighbors. Israel must and will continue to defend herself, as she must, in order to guarantee the security of her own citizens. Now, there are times when Israel may use excessive force, except in Israel there is a government inquiry and people are held responsible. On balance, most American Jews and Jews around the world, and most American in general, agree that most of the time Israel uses her military wisely, correctly and effectively. No other nation in the world goes to the extent of the Israeli armed forces to avoid hurting civilians. Those of you out there, who criticize Israel for defending herself constantly just admit what you really feel, and stop the nuances: You can't accept the fact, that there is small place in world, a small country where Jews control their own destiny and can defend themselves. That is your problem. Get over it.. Israel has been around 60 years, and it isn't going anywhere. Deal with it.

From Harper's Magazine, February, 1008, p. 30:

(Captured German generals reflect on the war):

"GENERAL EDWIN GRAF VON ROTHKIRCH UND TRACH:

"All the gassing institutions are in Poland, near Lvov. Let me tell you, though, the gassing sare by no means the worst. At Lvov in particular, I was always receiving reports of those shootings, and they were so bestial that I wouldn't care to tell you about them.

"RAMCKE: What happened?

"ROTHKIRCH: The people dug their own graves, ten Jews took up their positions by them, and then the firing squad arrived with tommy guns and shot them down, and they fell into the grave. Then came the next lot, and they too were paraded i front of them and then fell into the grave, and the rest waited uinti they were shot. Thousand of people wer shot. Many weren't dead, and a layer of earth was hoveled on in between. They had packers there who packed the bodies in, because they fell in too soon. Afterward they gave that up and gassed them. We receved a description. To this day, I don't know why I got it. The SS leader wrote that he had shot the children himself-- women were shot as well -- because it was so repulsive; they didn't always die immediately. He actually wrote that. He described ho he grasped the chidren by the neck and shot them with his revolver because that way he had the greatest certainty of their dying instantaneously. The governor at Lvov invited me to go to the opera with him. After a long interval, he suddenly said to me, "You know, Graf Rothkirch, it was terrible. It's so dreadful, it's indescribable. Just imagine what I have done. I attended one of thsose shootings." The man was completely out of his mind. A year ago I was in char of the school where men were being trained in guerrilla warfare; I went on an aexercise with them one day, and I said, "Direction of march is that hill up there." The directors of the school then said to me, "That's not a very good idea, sir, as they are burning Jews up there." I said, "What do you mean, burning Jews? There aren't any Jews anymore." "Yes, that's the place where they were always shot, and now they are all being disinterred, soaked with petrol, and burnt so that their bodies won't be discovered." "That's a dreadful job. There's certain to be a alot of loose talk about it afterward." "Well, the men who are doing the job will be shot directly afterward and burnt with them." The whole things sounds like a fairy tale.

"RAMCKE: From the Inferno."

~

May I nominate Nazi Germany to replace Israel as leader of the Culture of Violence? Or shall we go on to consider the 30 million Chinese slaughtered by Japan?

slim:

Providence, here.
I was unable to post on AG's site where you responded to my post. Perhaps you will see this one.

I went to the site suggested in your post and found it to be biased and suspect. There were not many references for the statements made. It was useful in that it provided a viewpoint.

You must go to the historical record(s). Please read the original documents. The record begins about 1850 or so. The heart of the matter begins in earnest about 1900. I know that you are quite capable of research.

Do you need any assistance with finding or interpreting the original documents or the historical record? If so, please let me know.

Your rhetorical statement is of no consequence to me; no need for me to respond (other than to say that it was a bit unbecoming).

Hope to engage you in meaningful dialog and exploration.

Providence

Thought so, Mr. Gandhi. I appreciate your clarifications: I was giving you the benefit of certain doubt, but that's not a good doubt for there to be.

I think some of the stuff you say here, while welcome, may be phrased according to or resembling certain presumptions which ill-serve certain meanings, if those meanings are your intention. 'Divided by a common language' and all.

This being largely an American audience, I'll point out that there is a certain cultural parallax even to the same words which may even in less-extreme examples rub people the wrong way.

Like with repeating the narrative that Westerners embrace consumerism, when in fact Western monotheists are *profoundly conflicted* about consumerism....

The idea that consumerism and materialism is a big conundrum here are in large measure the story certain folks stack up for themselves... mostly because Western theocratic capitalists say, 'You want this, you want this, you want this... If you don't want this, you serve the terrorists/commies/whoever... Want this? OK. Good Now spank yourself for wanting it and ask us what to do about it. Lather, rinse, repeat.'

This isn't the first subject you've been casually-preachy and totally out of touch about... to this audience, at least.

Parallax.

Don't stop talking, but also listen.

Context.

All that's missing from Ghandi's essay is that Jews control thje world's banks, governments and weaons industries. Lets hear it for the Protocols!

Arun when are you going to confront honesty and discard hate ? You are concerned about " holding on to historic grievences " and you want the Jews to move on and not dwell on the Holocaust but you do not seem to be concerned about the Catholic Church and people holding onto their grievence about the Christ Killer which is in fact the cause of the Nazi Holocaust. Your grand-father would be ashamed of you for your hate commentary.

Mr. Gandhi, most jews, where ever they live in the world, stand behind our Israeli brothern, and support their actions to defend their citizens. I suggest you review your grandfathers associations with the government and officals of Nazi Germany, Jerome

Kurtlane said:

"How disgusting it is to read Bierbelly, Thopane and others discussing among themselves what to do with us. We are not asked. One would think they are putting furniture into a new house. Austria, Switzerland, France. Maybe Florida. How clearly it screams at us: "You are not human! You are scum! We do with you whatever we want!"

Who do they think they are to push us around us like this? This is the same question I had to Arun Gandhi: who does he think he is to tell us what we think and feel?

Sorry, new enemies, but these arguments of what to do with us have been going on for many centuries. They never came to anything, and never will, because nobody wants us.

By the way, France expelled its Jews twice, and Tirol (Austria) once."

Uh, bierbelly is of Jewish descent and his comments were tongue-in-cheek; a way to demonstrate why Israel exists, which is because even still the rest of the world doesn't want Jews. BTW, I specifically chose France as an example, because of their renouned "tolerance"...apparently to all but Jews. Open your eyes to sarcasm.

Mr. S,

I appreciate your standing up for morality. I have never had a subscription to the Washington Post and based on the decision by the editors of this paper to allow this piece to be expressed in their paper, I won't be either.

The worst type of a racist or bigot is not the obvious in your face one.... but subtle highbrow bigot who sneers down his nose at you like a child.... As the Northern "liberals" used to aid the 'black man' from the "bigoted Southern white man" while yet looking down at the "negro"..... we now get a full dose of Mr. Gandhi's sneering high brow bigotry while using his 'holier than though' "non-nviolence" persona for good measure...

Last time I checked the land India and Pakistan were fighting over a parcel of land not in the least crucial to either nation's survival or security. Yet India will simply not make "friends with its enemy" and perhaps "give cede the land" in the name of "peace".....

Yet Mr. Gandhi preaches to Israel and Jews worldwide about the problems Israel faces that Israel simply does not want to "embrace its enemy"..... Yes, the Arab world's mental and physical rejection/war against Israel's existence is predicated solely on land "give backs" and stubborn Israeli mindset.....

And then he has the nerve to say the "culture of violence" is led by Israel.... bcs you know the tiny country has more reporters in it per square mile than any other country in the world.....

Lest we see Darfur or India, China, Tibet, Saudi Arabia or Pakistan with the same per capita of free reporters blasting images daily.... and then compare...

Mike

To anonymous bigot:

I am not a Jew, just a former customer of the Washington Post who believes that a little better sense might be demonstrated by its editors. A reader who will patronize another newspaper that has clear, ethical standards.

In effect, I will no longer read the Post. I suppose that the above concept may be a bit beyond you--based on your response, you apparently have an aversion to civilized discourse and reasonable thought. But I suspect the editors understand.

It does not surprise me that you would call me a Jew: anyone who rejects the irrational hatred and violence in both deed and speech directed at the a Jewish people must be one of them, right?

You reveal your own moral cowardice and malice with the use of that one three-letter word. You represent evil. May Hell welcome your wailing curses.

AG, No apology was necessary.
Nor was it appreciated by most of the people who post here.

Kurtlane, Thank you for your post and selecting part of my post to include in yours.

Please let me know if you would like the proof.

Providence

Gandhi's apology.

OK, let's say his apology does take away some of the offense. At least not all of us are evil, and he doesn't have a special key to all of our thoughts and feelings. And let's say it takes his views out of "anti-semitic" bin and puts them into the "anti-Zionist" bin. So now it's about "I don't mind the French people, some of them are fine, but France as a country should be wiped off the face of the earth."

=============================================================================

New enemies (they appear fast).

How disgusting it is to read Bierbelly, Thopane and others discussing among themselves what to do with us. We are not asked. One would think they are putting furniture into a new house. Austria, Switzerland, France. Maybe Florida. How clearly it screams at us: "You are not human! You are scum! We do with you whatever we want!"

Who do they think they are to push us around us like this? This is the same question I had to Arun Gandhi: who does he think he is to tell us what we think and feel?

Sorry, new enemies, but these arguments of what to do with us have been going on for many centuries. They never came to anything, and never will, because nobody wants us.

By the way, France expelled its Jews twice, and Tirol (Austria) once.

================================================

And new friends.

- "And, while, some of Israel's policies are extreme and there is definitely a form of racism that exists, its not limited to just the Israeli side."

In fact, in my experience it is limited to the other side. I've been to Israel twice, talked to lots of people, and found no hatred of Palestinians. None. It was amazing!

And what Israeli policies are really extreme? Only, placed in context, please. The wall prevents terror. Checkpoints do the same. Ambulances are checked because they have been used to smuggle bombs. Musical instruments have been used for the same purpose. So were animals, dead and alive. And little children. Houses of terrorists (and only terrorists) are demolished, but their families are not harmed. Here in the US the parents would probably go to jail. And anyway, this is war, so it's wrong to judge it by peacetime standards. In fact, the extremism of Israel's policies is the opposite: they are waaay too soft. Like this idiotic "peace process" that was a Trojan Horse from the beginning and just cannot die. Or like Israeli government paying to wives of suicide bombers as widows (I am not sure it is still done, but it was.)

- "I think propelling rockets into homes no matter who is responsible is wrong. Attacking innocent civilians to speak to its government is wrong. Palestinians are as much to blame for this cycle of conflict as are the Israelis."

No, Palestinians are tremendously more to blame. Those disembowlers, dancers with human entrails and soccer-players with human heads are tremendously more to blame. Let's call a spade a spade.

Nice to apologize

BUT

he seems to apologize for saying All Jews are as Bad as he thinks the government of Israel is.

did he apologize for his insensitive remarks about the Holocaust? I find those at least as offensive as the Israel/all Jews comments.

I don't think he softened those Holocaust comments. I think he justified himself.

And those are the comments I found MOST insensitive.

the level of discourse is discouragingly low, both in the original piece by mister gandhi and in most of the responses. any attempt to inject some common sense feels as futile as whispering in the middle of a noisy bar. nonetheless: certainly we can agree on a few things: hatred and accusations merely cause a response of defensiveness. a true attempt at peace would not come in the form of an attack but would involve at least some degree of compassion which was totally lacking in mister gandhi's original piece. letting go of the past sounds like good advice (maybe) but in reality it's as compassionate as telling someone in the throes of clinical depression to "put on a happy face". are you the type who goes to funerals and tells all the mourners to smile and laugh when they feel like crying. the trauma of genocide might be something that requires only three years or thirty years to recover from. then again it might take three hundred years. are you an expert in the trauma of genocide and recovery from genocide that you can tell me what is the exact time frame that is reasonable. since when is the reaction to trauma reasonable? nonetheless the desire to change the world into a rational and peaceful place is commendable. but even if such a desire can be accomplished, it can only be accomplished with compassion and wisdom sorely missing in mister gandhi's words and in the words of many of the participants in this talkback.

Mr Gandhi
You are a brave and honest man for speaking the truth. You are a true representative of what is best in India.

The palestinians don't have a culture of violence and hatred. They're fighting for what is rightfully theirs. How can the world settle them if Israel won't give them back their homes? Arun Gandhi is completely right. He's a decent man who sees the world clearly and not through brain washing propaganda.

Far from correcting misconceptions, you reinforce them. Clearly you blame Israel and Holocaust victims for the Palestinian culture of violence and hatred and their mainly self-imposed/Arab-imposed misery. Every other refugee population of that era has been resettled. Only Palestinians have traded future hopes for present and ongoing misery.

This is directed to the Washington Post editors who are responsible for maintaining or moderating this site:

I live in the DC metro area. I have been a regular reader of the Post since 1993. Unlike some of your customers, I was the kind who put the quarters in the machines each day on the way to work, you know, the full-value customer. Thanks to the article provided by Mr. Gandhi, those quarters will now be spent elsewhere.

JLS
Alexandria, Virginia

To enemies: a few major corrections.

- "Israel was never in danger of military defeat."

Bull.

- "Israel is a failed state - founded illegally and immorally - we are not surprised at the past (60 years), present, and future prospects."

Bull and empty propaganda.

- "While you're at it, check out the Stern Gang and the Irgrun. Both terrorist organizations responsible for massacres of their own. Begin was a wanted and hunted terrorist, but magically becomes respectable as a prime minister."

Yes, they were terrorists,and they were right. Because at that time there was no other way to survive. As the British Palestinian agency wrote to the Foreign Office (paraphrasing), unfortunately Hitler didn't kill all Jews, and we now have a refugee crisis.

And there is no magic in Begin and others becoming respectable. Because once surviving without being terrorist became possible, they dropped the terror. In this they acted not unlike George Washington. And very much unlike Paleoterrorists.

- "Do they edny, as some writers seem to post above, that there isn't genocide and target practice in Palestine?"

There is no genocide or target practice [on people] in Palestine. These are lies spread by the media. And we don't drink babies' blood. And we don't turn into hyenas or vampire bats. And we don't eat corpses. And we didn't cause that tsunami.

- "A lot of ignorant people read the Washington Post it seems. Seriously you gotta get over this "chosen people" thing, all religions are triumphalist. And you need to stop classing Jews as a religion only."

I am over "chosen people" thing. Actually, I never was in it. And I don't classify Jews as a religion only. We are a nation, with rights equal to any other nation.

Are you done preaching to us, or is there more?

- "If Jews were so marginalized in Europe for so long- then WHY did they make up such a large percentage of the intellectual and mercantile elite"

First off, I'd like to see actual numbers. Claims of Jewish infiltration have often been exaggerated. Second, have you heard expression 'Work twice as much to get half as far?' My parents would tell it to me, but then say, 'so you have to work eight times as much.' That's how we get results. You could do it too, if you only wanted to.

- "The Israelis do not want peace - they just rejected a cease-fire in Gaza - because they want land."
- "The Palestinians are inhuman to them and it is reflected in the system of roads and walls - a prison like existence."
- "We need to reject Israeli and Jewish idea of pre-emptive war and the idea the the ends justify the means."

Bull.

- "Look at their involvement in early communism or the neo conservative movement. THESE POLITICAL MOVEMENTS cause anti-semitism! Not religion."

Funny. Communism and neo-conservatism look very different to me. Why would the same person or people develop such contradictory ideologies? But then, it's always that way with haters. Jews are both capitalists and communists, both nationalist-Zionist and cosmopolitans who steal other people's t culture, both too pushy and too reticent, etc. etc. You can never satisfy a hater, no matter what you do it's your own fault.

Once I read a similar idiocy about white people: white people stare at non-whites, and also avert their eyes. Can you stare and avert your eyes at the same time? That was the only comment of this kind I ever heard that was not directed at Jews.

No dear, the reason for antisemitism is right in your HEART!!! But I know you don't have the bravery to look in there. So keep inventing phony reasons.

- "Anti-semitism is not irrational."
This is such bull. it's funny.

- "Look at what the Jews say on this board. There are no Good Germans. Just law abiding Germans."

That's one statement by one person. I disagree with it. Several Jews said clearly that they have nothing against Germans. Yet you ignore all this and grab one statement that you generalize to "what Jews say on this board." How typical. How pig-headed.

- "Funny thing about American jews' rabid support of Israel is these same American jews aren't even welcome in Israel. Yes, Israelis do not particularly like American jews who they say should just stay in New York or LA and don't bother coming to Israel. There are articles on this subject all time in the Israeli press."

There is a very noticeable part of Israeli media, particularly paper Ha'Aretz, which behaves as you describe. It also dislikes all Jews, and loves Palestinians. Apart from that, Israelis love Americans, Jewish or not.

- "Does anyone know that 12-13 million Chinese went through a similar cruel treatment in their own land as 6 million Jews faced in Europe. Have you heard about it as much as we hear about holocaust day in day out."

I don't understand how killing 11-12 million Chinese justifies killing 6 million Jews.

- "Mr. Gandhi has a good suggestion to try people to see from palestinian point of view too."

How about trying to see things from Israeli point of view too? From morning till night on every media source all I hear is "Palestinian, Palestinian, Palestinian." Where is the Jewish point of view? Does anyone even know what it is? Apparently not, judging from the volumes of ignorant baloney spewed here.

- "I'm seeing a lot of hurt jews on this board. What...someone just outed your dirty laundry?"

No. There are too many Jew-haters publicly waving theirs like those Palestinian flags. They create a very unpleasant stench.

- "Is a guy named Noam Chomsky a Jew? I guess..."

Yes he is. He is of that old very traditional branch: Jewish traitors. Every nation has its traitors, we too have them. Often they are called "self-hating Jews," but I prefer to call them Jew-hating Jews. Clearly they do not hate themselves, but think of themselves as an exception. This is our Tokyo Rose. Norman Finkelstein, Stanley Cohen (lawyer for Hamas), Israel Shamir are of the same branch. Figures from the past include Leon Trotsky and many out-converts who then made their living by attacked their own people. Of course, nothing they say can be taken on faith - it's mostly a bunch of lies. Noam Chomsky is particularly good at putting his lies into a seemingly coherent whole. He has the experience - he has been a professor of linguistics for many decades.

- "Last I checked, this was America...land of the free. All this vitriol on Arun Gandhi just for expressing his opinion (quite valid at that, I might add). Pointing out the follies of Israel and the inability of Jews (a few arguably, not everyone) to move beyond the holocaust and hold the world on a guilt-ransom DOES NOT make him an anti-semite."

So tell me what nation you belong to, so I may "point out your follies and inabilities." We'll see how you like that and whether you will keep appealing to freedom of speech.

So what you are saying is that we Jews should just sit there meekly and feel guilty as you haters discuss our very guts and bones? That would be the freedom of speech you want?
Sorry, I don't play by those rules.

And don't put "a few arguably, not everyone" there. Gandhi didn't write that, and I see nothing in his article to assume he means that. I think he does mean everyone.

- "I fear the Jews will do to you what they did to Jimmy Carter."

And what have Jews done to Jimmy Carter? Did we gas him? Cut his head off? Disembowel him and dance with his guts, like Palis did to two people in Ramallah a few years ago? Cut off his head and play soccer with it? (like Poles did to Jews in Yedwabne, Poland in 1941, and Palis in Gaza in 2004) Was he robbed, castrated, tortured and murdered, like the rabbis of Hebron in 1929? (Palestinians are very nice people, aren't they). Or was he roasted alive in the oven, like a Jewish baker, also in Hebron?

What in heaven's name have Jews done to Jimmy Carter?

- "Mr. Gandhi's statements, although too broad and overencompassing, did touch on the truth. The truth that our Jewish heritage does not allow us to swallow."

Speak for yourself, baby.

- "We can not continue to rely on and blame the Holocaust for everything bad or negative in our present."

We do? When? Where?

- "It is also unjustified and unprovable to call someone's opinions anti-semitic. Antisemitism is an emotive, expressive hositility towards Jews as a religious, racial, or ethnic group. To classify someone's opinions as anti-semitic is simply uncultured, irrational and illogical."

Really? Who made up these rules? You? And of what use is the word at all if any use of it is "uncultured, irrational and illogical?" Are Hitler's opinions, as written down in Mein Kampf, antisemitic, or this too is "unjustified and unprovable?" There is plenty of "emotive, expressive hositility" on this board, and it pulses so loudly through so many opinions.

- "That fact is Israel is nothing but a FORTRESS seving the American Jewish Imperialists. It looks like a CANCER put by Imperiaists in the HEART OF THE ARAB WORLD. Thanks to the powerful American Zionist Lobby, that baby Israel exists. Israel is an apartheid State of TERROR ! Sad to know all those facts."

Sad to see that you confuse propaganda with facts and think that SHOUTING will convince us.

- "Israeli forces and settlers kill Pali children on a daily basis. Try readin the Independent or watch something on the BBC."

And you can find even more interesting material on websites of Ziopedia, Jewwatch, National Alliance, National Socialist Movement. Definitely take a look at Stormfront: lots of juicy stuff about them Jews. Or how about KuKlux Klan? (sarcasm)

What, they lie? And who said the Independent and the BBC tell the truth?

- "return Palestine to the rightful owners; i.e. those having title or heirs of those having title. Remove the occupiers. Bring/take all the Hebrews that would prefer to live in the US to the US (which should have been done long ago)."

And, I suppose, those who prefer not live in the US should just croak.

Yeah, right. Like the US is that open. So many people I know, including my relatives, went to Israel because the US was closed to them. And during WWII the US turned away St. Louis - a ship full of Jewish refugees. And before that it turned away Jewish children trying to escape from certain death, but accepted British ones fleeing far less dangerous situations. There was even a program to accept British dogs. But not Jews. As Laura Delano Houghteling, cousin of Franklin Roosevelt and wife of the US Commissioner of Immigration, said "20,000 charming [Jewish] children would all too soon grow into 20,000 ugly [Jewish] adults."

So I don't have any hope that the US, Zimbabwe, or any place else will accept 6 million Jews (overwhelming majority of them born in Israel) fleeing for their lives when "Palestine is returned to its rightful owners." It will be just like in 1939-45.

And the rest of us outside Israel will live from pogrom to pogrom, always hated, persecuted, demonized, fleeing from place to place just trying to survive. But I guess that's what you want.

Many other enemies are not worth writing to. Too bad their parents didn't toilet-train them properly. This particularly applies to Jojo. One might as well ask, why does Jojo have such a dirty *((? To &^** on everyone around him? Jojo, from your *((hole into your own mouth. May you choke on your own hatred.

Funny thing. About a year ago I read several forum entries by someone from Iran. He started with just the same stuff: return Palestine to Palestinians, make Jews go back to whatever. He quickly gathered support of nearly everyone. And then he said, "And America too should be returned to the Indians, and everyone else should go back." And here the same Americans who a moment ago supported him paused and turned back. Because now it involved them.

Only don't tell me that conquest of America, unlike Palestine, was "long ago." Because I will ask how come the border between "long ago" and "not long ago" is once again made in such way that Jews are on one side, and everyone else on the other? And does that umpteenth repetition of the ancient double-standard not imply that everyone else is a human being, and Jews are "certainly not, and worse than animals" (to quote American general Patton)? And why does it sound so much like... you know... Jew-hatred?

How can you argue that Isreali policy is a result of Jewish identity, call that Jewish identity a major reason for world violence, and then claim to apologize by saying, "but there are a few nice Jews." Such a disclaimer is every bit as worthless as noting that "While there are some blacks who aren't rapists..." or "Some women are sufficiently masculine, but..." It is shameful you should even consider that an apology. Criticizing Israeli policy, which is too often appropriate, and criticizing "Jewish identity" are entirely separate things, and you're confusing the two is no less troubling after such an insincere apology.

Nonviolence begins with refusing to demonize others.

Mr. Gandhi,

Despite your "poorly-worded" thoughts, you nevertheless revealed your sentiments plain enough, which renders your apology meaningless.

To be blunt, I see your apology more as an attempt to cover your behind. If you really want to express sorrow, you might start by admitting that the piece you wrote was both bigoted and ill-informed and served only to incite and inflame.

Instead, you attempt to qualify your previous statements by focusing it on the Israeli government rather than the Jews as a whole, as if that justifies everything else you wrote. It does not.

You sir, are an anti-Semite. When you have the courage to recognize that, perhaps you will understand why your shoddy attempt at an apology cannot be accepted.

I have two questions for those of you who tell Jews (in so many words) to "get over" the Holocaust and move on with their lives.

Do you also tell African-Americans to "get over" slavery, denial of their civil rights, and discrimination?

Are you equally outspoken in your opposition to affirmative action?

To neither friends nor enemies:

- "I for one am suffering from, compassion fatigue! I really am quite tired of hearing about the holocaust, as awful as it was. I've been so inundated I no longer care much. It's over and done. I'm tired of it."

And I am suffering of Palestinian fatigue! Wherever I look, it's "poor oppressed suffering Palestinians." No matter what they do, it's "poor oppressed suffering Palestinians."

I am also suffering from Islam fatigue. A few days ago I turned on Wikipedia main page and saw an article on Ganesha (Hindu god). This made me so happy: Wow! A religion other than Islam! Imagine that!

- "I feel that the people who claim lineage to biblical figures are insane. It is possible to not only believe a lie but convince others of that lie if that lie is perpetual. There is no proof that the people who profess to be Jewish related by blood to Abraham and Muslims who profess to be related by blood to Ishmael are anything more than confused people who after thousands of years of perpetual lies have gone insane in this belief."

At least you are equating Jews and Muslims, and therefore implying that Jews are also human beings and not cockroaches. Compared with quite a few messages on this board and elsewhere, this is a major achievement.

But while there is no proof of belonging to biblical lineages, there is no disproof either. Other people claim descent from seagulls, wolves, ravens, fish, ants, rocks, a woman who fell from the sky, hermaphrodite divine twins, a giant clam, etc. Some say the world was spun by a spider, others claim it is an egg that was dropped by a teal. And they are all OK. So I just wouldn't be so speedy to judge.

Anyway, this is not the crux of the conflict. The real crux is very simple: We Jews want to live, and our enemies want us to be dead. It's really that simple underneath. In essence, Zionism means Jewish people have a right to live.

In the old Christian view, Jews were seen as subhuman. (I don't mean all Christians, just the view, now this view is quite rare.) But in the traditional Muslim view (I don't mean all Muslims, just the view, though now this view is quite common), Christians were seen as subhuman, and Jews as sub-sub-human. While there are some advantages of being seen this way (you are not perceived as a threat), the diminution is enormous. I will never forget the words of an old Jordanian official, "That we were beaten in 1949 was bad, but that we were beaten by Jews -- that was shameful." It is this shame and the drive for restoration of "the Jew" to its "proper place" as sub-sub-human that lie at the root of Arab and Muslim hatred for everything connected with Israel. Because even if "sub-humans" (Christians) were put in their "proper place," the structure is a mockery of itself if "sub-sub-humans" (Jews) are running free.

It is in thus not very different from American white Southerners' resistance towards emancipating slaves, even if they personally did not own any. Even those whites who were hardly better than slaves themselves were ready to give their lives for slavery (and many did), because that skin color gave them a feeling of superiority, a feeling codified in the structure of their society.

And this is what our brainless "progressives" are supporting.

I know all this sounds strange, very unusual. But no matter how rarely truth is heard, it is still the truth, and no matter how often lies are repeated, they are still lies. It's sad so many people on this forum cannot handle the truth.

For those whose minds are not entirely closed, check out Jerusalem Post and read the book by Nonie Darwish. She is excellent.

are the same indians who support the extreme right wing BJP that have a swastika on their flag, admire hitler, belong to the same group of people who killed Mahatma Gandhi, and support the caste system. No wonder they hate Arun Gandhi. Enough said.

I appreciate your post. We know how much Israel and India have in common. So many Israelis love travelling to India and there are so many cultural similarities between our peoples that it makes for natural friendships. It is a shame this grandson has such a narrow-minded perspective that distorts the reputation of his own family legacy.

To friends: a few corrections, mostly minor :

- "To set Mr. Ghandi straight, it wasnt Hitler who personally manned the death camps or led the execution squads. It was ordinary Germans."

Oh, it wasn't just Germans. Ukrainians and Romanians, Lithuanians, Poles, Slovaks, Latvians and Estonians, Croats, Bosnians, Austrians, French, Dutch, Belgians, ets. etc. etc. Practically entire Europe participated.

- "I wonder whether he suggests the same for Muslims in their dealings with Hindus, as well as with Christians and Jews. Members of all three of these groups have been targets of Muslim violence for some fourteen centuries,"

And Buddhists too. For many centuries. I knew some Tibetans, and they are not nearly as scared of the Chinese as they are of current plan to move a Muslim group into Tibet (talking about settlers and occupation). They know Muslim persecution all too well.

- "I take nothing away from the Jews and their Shoah... but we should not forget the others who also faced the same thing... the Romani (Gypsies) call it the Porajmos, literally Devouring. The nazis did their best to kill all the Romani in Europe."

And the Roma keep suffering to this day. Which goes to show that no matter how horrible an experience a nation goes through, it does not stop humanity from demonizing and terrorizing them further, that there is no end to human cruelty. So if there have been few anti-Jewish pogroms since 1948, it was not because of the Holocaust, but because of the creation of Israel. When a campaign against Polish Jews was created by Gomulka, the Jews were expelled to Israel. If it weren't for Israel, they would've been massacred. Same with other Jews expelled or running from the Arab world, from Iran, from Ethiopia, etc.

I hope that one day Roma too will have their country. They surely deserve it more than the Paleos. (I am primarily so negative about the Paleos because the humanity is always so supportive of them, to the detriment of everyone else.)

- "Like we in America are doing... we are making a change in our leadership... we are tired of wars and hate. I know there has to be Jews that are ready for something different besides fear and death."

I would be careful to judge anyone as living in fear and death, not the Roma or the Tibetans or anyone. And particularly not Jews. We have so much more than that, and not only in America. I would really advise you to visit Israel. Even as a tourist. See the place, walk the streets, talk to people. No, it's not ideal. But you will see how much life there is there.

- "Mr. Gandhi: You do not know me. Nor do I know you. Please do not condescend to presume what I, as a Jew, think or believe. I will extend you the same courtesy."

Please don't extend courtesy to a person who does not deserve it. He clearly thinks he knows what all of us think or feel, and probably does not even understand how arrogant he is. If it were just ignorance, there could be hope. But there is no method against arrogance.

- "would expect this hateful rhetoric against Jews on Washingon Post by its esteemed panelists and Islamic terrorist apologists like Eboo Patel and Fareed Zakaria"

Please recheck. I don't know Eboo Patel, but Fareed Zakaria is on a good account with me. He is one of the few Muslims who is measured, truly moderate, and not afraid to speak out. Does not mean I agree with everything he says, but he is a very decent man.

Here is a quote from him: "By equating Zionism with racism, it [the U.N.] is in effect trying to delegitimize the very existence of Israel, saying the founding basis of Israel is, in fact, racist and inadmissible"

Bravo Fareed.

- "What he's really saying is 'it's okay to protect people as long as they're not Jews.'"

You've hit the nail on the head. This is one thing that unites all Jew-haters: they all believe that Jews are not human, and therefore should not be treated as human beings.

- "Why isn’t it clear that the barrier can be dismantled, but the bomber's victims are gone forever?"

Because logic has nothing to do with it. Jew-haters just hate us. It's hatred first. They have this hatred, it's like an intestinal parasite, and it's eating them from the inside. It's totally without reason or logic, which they don't like, so they keep inventing justifications for it. And when there are obvious logical flaws (like in phrase "involvement in early communism or the neo conservative movement"), they don't notice them. But all this is just a game. Their reasoning exists to justify their hatred, never the other way around.

- "clearly the consumption of lsd did not end with the death of tim leary and jerry garcia!"

No, it's not LSD, it's something much worse. It's called Jew-hatred.

- "Like his grandfather, Mr. Gandhi advocates Jewish suicide."

No, unlike his grandfather who was at least honest in advocating Jewish suicide, this one speaks of peace and tries to hide the murderous ugliness of our enemies, both from himself and from us.

- "The holocaust ... was the result of German culture, committed by ordinary Germans. There are no good Germans: there are only law-abiding Germans."

I totally disagree. There was much more than Germans in the Holocaust. Nearly every European nation was involved. Some arguably are more complicit than Germans. For example, when Germans arrived in Kaunas, the capital of Lithuania, most Jews were already dead. Killed by their neighbors. Even the British are complicit to a degree, closing Palestine and everything else to Jews fleeing Hitler. Arabs are not innocent either. The Grand Mufti Hajj Amin al-Huseini was a major instigator of the final solution. Tales about bad Germans and good everyone else are fairy tales. So better to say this is humanity. This is how it has always treated us. Holocaust is simply the "latest greatest" in 2,000 years of our persecution. They will do it again, if we only let them, if we only trust any of them. Just look at this board. Neither Arun Gandhi nor his supporters are German (except maybe one or two). They are from all over, a true "Antisemitic International," and the only thing that unites them is hatred of us (no, not love of Palestinians, they will forget all about Palestinians once we are exterminated). But it unites them well. God save us from the inhumanity of humanity. Let us trust neither Greeks bearing gifts nor Arabs making peace nor Americans making promises.

Mr Ghandi
The immense ravages that dwarf even the Holocaust that have been committed in the name of Islam resulting in the deaths of tens of millions of Hindus, the destruction of their temples in the thousands ( the erection of mosques over their ruins), the extinction of passive Buddhism in your own country where it survives only in areas not conquered by the Islamic hordes and today's on going persecutions in Kashmir and elsewhere.. all this list of atrocities, should generate some sympathy for the Israelis who are facing what India has faced for a thousand years and what the west may soon have to face.

Apology not accepted. Now please go back to your paradise on the sub continent foolish person.

We'll never stop squabbling until we realize that there is no god and no life-after-death,and that all religions are equally fantastic and ridiculous.
Our totally ignorant ancestors invented gods in their attempts to make sense of existence and the cosmos;and it's ludicrous to give such supernatural fantasies any credibility in the modern world.

I am a Jewish housewife preoccupied (so I thought) primarily with my children and family.

I would like to thank you for opening my eyes to my ‘other’ life. Thanks to you, I now know that in-between running errands, cleaning and cooking I am also a global big shot. Apparently, from my humble kitchen I run the ‘biggest play’ of promoting a ‘culture of violence that is eventually going to destroy humanity.’ Being responsible for the destruction of ‘the whole of humanity’ must trump being part of a conspiracy to take over the world, which is what I have been accused of hitherto.

You may be Ghandi's biological grandson--but you are no Ghandi. While an apple does not fall far from the tree, the tree can’t control where it will roll off from there.

Dear Readers,

I feel betrayed by a so-called leader of peace and nonviolence. To insinuate that Israel and her people are the biggest players of violence in the world is just ridiculous. India herself has a stockpile of nuclear weapons and have been in numerous religious and territorial clashes with Pakistan and Sikhs.

I am must preface by saying I am an American of Indian decent (my parents immigrated to the States in the 1970s). I was fortunate to be raised in a household built on tolerance and mutual respect of all cultures. You cannot go blaming an entire region, country, or race of people and saying that they will aide in the demise of humanity! Egregious remarks to say the least.

I would also like to comment that Israel and India have been allies in many conflicts and share intelligence information on a regular basis. Due to the strategic location of India to the East and Israel on the West - similar threats from terrorists create a necessity of sharing information.

So I hope that this guy hasn't convinced anyone that this is the general stance of all Indians. We have been for decades at each others side promoting stability and security in the middle east and elsewhere.

concerned 3:09 pm. Take a long look around the middle east and tell me if you see one democracy anywhere with anything like the vibrance and creativity of Israel. It doesn't exist. The other middle eastern countries are bankupt stalinist regimes or repressive monarchies with medieval values that offer nothing to their people. They are corrupt, anti democratic, and treat women as chattel. Go back to the year 2000 when Barak offered arafat just about everything you mentioned that will solve the conflict yet it was turned down. Israel got the "2nd intifadah" and suicide bombers as the result of that negotiation. Unfortunately in that part of the world, withdrawl and reconciliation are considered weakness and invite more aggression. Are some of Israel's policies heavy handed...yes they are. Mainly because they've been dealing for over 60 years with an enemy that is sworn to it's destruction. Get it...they are sworn to Israel's destruction and this is not a theoretical matter. With the exception of the Sinai, all Israeli withdrawls have resulted in more violence against the jewish state not less. Open your eyes and get real.

Joe:

Excellent post. As are all Indians, I am mad as hell with these Islamic terrorists spreading terror in India. I have no patience reading Mr. Arun Gandhi's stupid posts. On the contrary, I believe that India and Israel can cooperate much more in combatting the common threat of Islamic terrorism. We can only hope that our politicians are not sleeping on this.

Tell us, are the Jews used to getting their way
in censuring anything they don't like in the
Washington Post? What else have they hidden?

Particularly since the column by Ghandi is most certainly NOT at odds with what most of the world, including Americans, think.

Maybe change Wapo's name to the Jerusalem Post Published in DC.

Mr. Arun Gandhi's original post was incredibly shallow and ignorant and his "apology" is quite ridiculous.

I admire his grandfather as a great man and a saint. But that does not mean that I agree wholeheartedly with Gandhi's policy of nonviolence. I think this nonviolence business has been overrated. Sometimes, violence is verymuch necessary to prevent a greater loss of life. I do not buy gandhi's policy of nonviolenc and would ahve told that to his face if he were alive today. As I said before, I do not surrender my intelligence to anyone, including Gandhi.

For any message to get through, you need a transmiter as well as a receiver. We can have the world's most powerful transmiter but if there is no receiver or if the receiver is tuned to the wrong channel, the message will not get across. Gandhi's policy of nonviolence would work with an adversary that has a receiver--that is a conscience. It worked with the British because they have a conscience, a democratic government back home, and the rule of law. These helped greatly in receiving gandhi's message over time and finally to see the injustice of continued occupation of India. But this policy would NOT work with the Nazis--they would simply put Gandhi and his followers in the gas chamber within 24 hours. No doubt about it. If the Nazis can put innocent men, women, and children in the gas chamber, why would they hesitate to put gandhi and his followers as well? So lest not overrate this policy of nonviolence which will not work with Osama, Al-Queda, or the Taliban. These characters have to be killed outright through military action.

Israel has every right to exist. The Israeli government has no choice but to protect its citizens and the land. That is the job of the Israeli armed forces. However, a review of current policies are needed to see if they are effective and to come up with improvements. There should be one consistent message from the non-Muslim world--THE SECURITY OF ISRAEL IS NON-NEGOTIABLE.

The United Nations should pass a resolution that it would intervene militarily in the case of every single genocide no matter where it occurs in the world. No, the world should not be allowed to forget the holocaust. That would be an insult to humanity.

Excuse me? How is this an apology? Would you mind clarifying your statement about "Jews (Jews NOT Israel even) are the biggest players in a culture of violence that will destroy humanity?"

You are a snivling little weasel who overstepped the line with his true colors and now got caught.

And while we are at it, to all of the typical Arab propagandists here like Victoria as well, do you really, honestly think that Jews have a culture of violence compared to the culture in Islamic nations? The call that American Jews should be dissassociate themselves from Israel is particularly laughable when you are so silent about the countless atrocities committed by very, very violent moslems, all the time, all around the world, every day (yet another suicide bombing in Pakistan this time, yet more missles fall on Sderot, and what about Darfur?). Groups like CAIR not only finance terrorist organizations, but actually have terrorists as higher-ups.

Yet we have willful blindness and agitprop from you. A pox on you all. The Jews are vastly more civilised than any of you - and they always have been.

Come on Americans, get your spelling right.

Question for Gandhi: Have you ever criticized Islamic terrorists or a Muslim Government like Saudi Arabia for being intolerant and non-democratic? Pakistan for intolerance and exporting terror?

A "Freudian Slip of Genuine Prophecy" aye! Ya Ya!

without doubt, Arun Gandhi is a man of honor and integrity. moreover, as a man dedicated to the promotion of world peace, he truly has the correct perspective on the behavior of nations!
kamudi al naqshbandi

The Washington Post should be ashamed of having published your rant. Saying that "Israel and the Jews are the biggest players" in "culture of violence" have a very clear meaning.

Your second posting isn't an apology, it's just an admission that you've been caught.

I think its a shame that a man related to such an inspiring and moving individual who spoke of peace and change can speak words that I feel are so offensive and inappropriate.

First and foremost, I think its a fair statement to make that the Jewish community has many differing opinions on Israel's domestic and foreign policy, but most Jews believe in Israel's right to exist. I think thats a fair and general statement. Now, there still are Jews (as seen by the ones who attend the conference in Iran) who don't fit into this statement. Therefore, to categorize an entire community is extremely difficult and should be avoided at all times.

Secondly, I think its a very extreme statement to make that Israel is responsible for a majority of the world's violence. I don't see how Israel has forced tribal warfare in Kenya or Darfur. Even the conflict in the middle east isn't entirely attributed to the creation of Israel. I mean the drive for Oil can be seen as a greater catalyst of violence or the after shock of Cold War policies are more of an influence in todays violence than Israel.

Third, while I do feel changes are necessary so there may one day be peace, changes must occur on both sides of the scale. Pointing fingers has never accomplished anything. And, while, some of Israel's policies are extreme and there is definitely a form of racism that exists, its not limited to just the Israeli side. I think propelling rockets into homes no matter who is responsible is wrong. Attacking innocent civilians to speak to its government is wrong. Palestinians are as much to blame for this cycle of conflict as are the Israelis. Teaching hate no matter who does it is wrong. That is the kind of statement I would expect from a descendant of Gandhi.

Fourth, a lot of the comments made on this blog are incredibly ignorant and offensive. It shocks and saddens me to think that there exists such ill informed individuals with such sadly distorted opinions. The Jewish Community has done many great things for the world, beyond our constantly reminding the world of the Holocaust. We are one of the most actively involved communities in regards to the conflict in Darfur. We, also, picked up the slack of the government by helping repair damaged homes in the gulf coast following Hurricane Katrina. We create national talklines to help those who need a ear. We feed and shelter the less fortunate. I believe the Jewish community is one of the most generous and unappreciated forces in America today. And to belittle and insult them in such a way....is disgraceful.

Krishna:

Mr. Gandhi's comments may not have been antisemitic in intent, but they were antisemitic in effect. They were, in fact, dripping with antisemitism, starting with the belittling of the holocaust, continuing with the sorry "snake pit" metaphor, and culminating with "Israel and the Jews are the biggest players" in the "culture of violence".

Just like you suggested that we should see the film "Gandhi" (which I did), may I suggest that you visit some Nazi websites and some Jihadi websites, and see exactly where this sort of rhetoric comes from. Whether Mr. Gandhi is aware of that or not is irrelevant.

This is not a reflection on Mahatma Gandhi and definitely not on Indians in general. Only on Arun Gandhi.

I think its a shame that a man related to such an inspiring and moving individual who spoke of peace and change can speak words that I feel are so offensive and inappropriate.

First and foremost, I think its a fair statement to make that the Jewish community has many differing opinions on Israel's domestic and foreign policy, but most Jews believe in Israel's right to exist. I think thats a fair and general statement. Now, there still are Jews (as seen by the ones who attend the conference in Iran) who don't fit into this statement. Therefore, to categorize an entire community is extremely difficult and should be avoided at all times.

Secondly, I think its a very extreme statement to make that Israel is responsible for a majority of the world's violence. I don't see how Israel has forced tribal warfare in Kenya or Darfur. Even the conflict in the middle east isn't entirely attributed to the creation of Israel. I mean the drive for Oil can be seen as a greater catalyst of violence or the after shock of Cold War policies are more of an influence in todays violence than Israel.

Third, while I do feel changes are necessary so there may one day be peace, changes must occur on both sides of the scale. Pointing fingers has never accomplished anything. And, while, some of Israel's policies are extreme and there is definitely a form of racism that exists, its not limited to just the Israeli side. I think propelling rockets into homes no matter who is responsible is wrong. Attacking innocent civilians to speak to its government is wrong. Palestinians are as much to blame for this cycle of conflict as are the Israelis. Teaching hate no matter who does it is wrong. That is the kind of statement I would expect from a descendant of Gandhi.

Fourth, a lot of the comments made on this blog are incredibly ignorant and offensive. It shocks and saddens me to think that there exists such ill informed individuals with such sadly distorted opinions. The Jewish Community has done many great things for the world, beyond our constantly reminding the world of the Holocaust. We are one of the most actively involved communities in regards to the conflict in Darfur. We, also, picked up the slack of the government by helping repair damaged homes in the gulf coast following Hurricane Katrina. We create national talklines to help those who need a ear. We feed and shelter the less fortunate. I believe the Jewish community is one of the most generous and unappreciated forces in America today. And to belittle and insult them in such a way....is disgraceful.

BierBelly & other Full of Craparino's, et al;

you are INTOXICATED!

Note: If you insist on not minding your own business and get smarty ass with you self serving Tome

[you might be stealthly posing as the Editor, to make me look Supre-SupidStitious?]

then "i" will do this Every Day Untill the End of the Month or if you like untill the End of this year!

Warning: Stay the 'F' out of WAPO Business!

How is me spelling Punk?

Note: BIER-BELLY, Please do not answer.

If you d, Then i will go poof-time. or ELSE?!

You know. Ya Ya.

So please , shut the F-up!

Dear Arun,
Nissan Katz is right. You can only make peace when there is a willingness on the other side as well. Just as peaceful non-violent resistance to Hitler would have only cause more Jewish and "non-Aryan" deaths, so is trying to make peace with people out to kill you. Do you not see how the Muslims and the Hindus treat each other in the Indian subcontinent (that includes Pakistan, btw)? I will credit your grandpa with stopping one such bloodletting for a brief period of time, but we are back at it again. The only place where forgiveness seems to have worked is in South Africa because of Nelson Mandela. No way, no how this is going to happen among Muslims.

Concerned,

Where are you getting your facts? I agree, we should not support Israel because it is a democracy. On the contrary, we should support Israel simply because it is a civilized, peaceful, productive country that is surrounded by militant neighbors and needs the world's help but is instead ignored.

Do you buy Intel processors? Do you buy software from Microsoft? Do you use instant messaging? Sorry, but if you do, in some way you are probably supporting Israel. I can't think of anything Palestinians have produced, so sorry I can't provide you with a list there.

I wish we could take people like you in put them in the IDF. Have fun when people hiding behind other people's kids (no guts to use their own 1/2 the time) are shooting at you. Enjoy being attacked on your holiest days. Basque in the glory of the entire world ignoring you every time you ask for help.

It's ironic you keep hitting on the theme of a dispossessed population. You can thank your ancestors for doing that to the people living in Israel now in the first place. Nearly every country has gone through the same cycle throughout the ages, whether it is Germany, Manchuria, the United States, Zimbabwe, or Mexico. Israel is lucky in that it was able to at least reclaim a fraction of its own lands.

While it is unfortunate that some people were forced off their lands, the majority you would find had no legal claim on any of the land in the first place. Those with a so called legal claim likely came into it during the various cycles of violence in displacement. Do you think it's a bit odd that the buildings, history of the land, languages, and names of places are in Hebrew? Doesn't that tell you something.

Wakeup out of your bed of ignorance and stop believing propaganda fed to you by the media. I suggest you go there and see for yourself and then spend a few years in a library since you have a lot of catching up to do.

anonymous,

Did you mean "intoxicated"? We are all impressed with your ability to cut and paste, but perhaps you should finish second grade before you post here again.

I have often seen statements such as " Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East, and we should support it" .
On the face of it, that is true. But that is ignoring the rest of the story. This same democracy is responsible for dispossessing an entire people, grabbing additional land for settlements, imposing collective punishment, refusing to compensate those dispossessed, allowing ethnic discrimination of its Arab citizens that would horrify Americans if they only knew, using cluster bombs in Lebanon, reserving roads in occupied territory for only Israeli citizens ("apartheid road?"), confiscating residency permits of West Bank natives who travel abroad, etc. All this is done in the name of security of its citizens. Civil society in the rest of the world is aghast, because they see in these measures egregious victimization of a dispossesed population. A just peace can be obtained by Israel if it returns all of the West Bank to the Palestinians, shares Jerusalem, and adequately compensates refugees driven out since 1948.

So when you are not being completely naive, do you find it hard to accept statements as fact? Very few of the "hateful" comments against Muslims have any fiction. I can only conclude you are either:

1) Muslim
2) Woefully ignorant of the modern world
3) Dropped at birth on purpose
4) All of the above

The only injustice here I have seen to Muslims is the failure of some people to add a PC line to affirm they are not referring to all Muslims. Honestly, I think everyone would admit that this internally how they feel, but in a stupid blog people are not going to take the time to always be so considerate as to add such content to a reply.

It's pretty clear Jews want peace and to be left alone. Some Muslims too, but unfortunately for their leaders and many outspoken members, this is not the case. Very few Jews find themselves part of such hateful sub-groups as Muslims. This is fact, quit kissing Muslim asses and admit it. Any decent Muslim would easily concede this and be ashamed to have their good names besmirched by racist, bigoted, backward, abusive idiots like I don't know, EVERY LEADER IN THE MIDDLE EAST

"poorly worded"? I'm sorry, but that's no apology. You have succeeded in spreading hatred of the most vile kind and besmirching your formerly beloved family name. You should do humanity a favor and get a new profession. May i suggest construction-there are jobs available building concrete shelters for schoolchildren in Sderot against the Kassam missiles launched EVERY DAY.

"EDITOR, Please, Please review, answer or Post All of It! Yes in Entirty, zero ommissions.!!

Where is me original Post????

EDITOR! EDITOR! EDiTOR! Ms. SALLY? Mr. WATERS? Ms. LISA? et al?

What am "i" doing wrong????"

Maybe it's your spelling and/or grammar?

Krishna,

I agree, violence begets violence. This is obvious but unfortunately not practical. It is like a lab experiment that has to occur under contrived conditions, i.e. you have someone who is ready, willing, and able to listen, i.e. the British. Your viewpoint is incredibly naive and contrived. The only thing preventing Israel from being blown up completely right now is the fact that before its destruction, no Arab country wants a big mushroom cloud over its head. Make no mistake, the rest of the world in the end does not care what happens to Israel, even the US.

Regarding Ghandi himself, no one is accusing Indians of being anti-semitic, just him. While most Indians are likely not (in my experience as a Jew having gone to India) anti-semitic, you cannot generalize to the point where you can assure me there is not a single Indian that feels this way.

I think it is you who are missing the point. Israel has tried many angles of approach for dealing with the Palestinians and instead is greeted with violence and ridiculous demands. Admittedly, the conflict is quite difficult to understand and a simple comment can hardly give you any real understanding.

One important thing to understand in all of this is Israel is used to being beaten down, attacked, and hated. You have to also see that Israelis have a lot of pride and see no need for PR and manipulation tactics. Unfortunately, in the media and the world scene, any lies that are printed suddenly become the truth to some people. Combine that with all the people such as both of us who are home Philosophers with all the answers, you have trouble. I would think given all your travels you would not believe what you read until you see it or at least look for all points of view. Israel simply does not feel the need to prove itself to anyone, they just try to do the right thing and sometimes yes, make mistakes.

Generally, on a macro level, you have ineffective land for peace deals, state recognition, etc. but these deals are rejected by the Palestinians or accepted without following through on the other side of the deal. A simpler micro view can be seen by examining Israeli prisoner exchanges with Arabs in general. For instance, in 1985, Israel freed 1,150 prisoners in exchange for three Israeli soldiers kidnapped in Lebanon by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)-General Command. Many of the Arabs who were freed became leaders in the first Palestinian intifada. This is typical. Nearly every prisoner exchange follow a pattern of 5 or less dead Israelis for hundreds or thousands of terrorists.

I would love it if you came to my homeland with your profound understanding of non-violence. Arabs would not hesitate to kill you and your entire family. You are dramatically over simplifying the problem.

The fact is that there are good Arabs, something universally acknowledged by Jews (hence even Arabs living just fine in Israel and elsewhere), but unfortunately most Arab countries, "Palestine" included are overshadowed by a true, tangible culture of violence. Children are taught my people are pigs, savages, and far worse in textbooks. For some reason the rest of the world seems unable to come to terms with the fact that Arabs, and more specifically Muslim dominated countries in the middle east have an agenda and dogma that includes wiping everyone, including their own neighbors off the planet. No one can make peace with these people until they actually want it, and for the last few centuries, that is simply not the case.

Until then, I urge you to keep on believing that a country that elects terrorists as its government is ready for peace and will simply agree when Israel quits being "mean."

J.J., We know you are frustrated with the message board filter, but please stop making the rest of us scroll through your frustrations. Thanks.

I don't believe Mr. Gandhi is an anti-semitic and I think labeling him so will be a grievous mistake and a terrible over-reaction. Over the past 25 years I have lived in India, Canada, Japan and the US and I have not met an Indian who is anti-Jewish; in my experience, it is being quite the opposite: Jewish and Indian people seem to naturally work together and always appeared to me as appreciative of each other. Israel being the strongest and democratic country in the middle east, it will not hurt them to help the Palestinians build a normal society and a country. Violence only breeds violence. We need to move on. Labeling people such as Mr. Gandhi as anti-semitic is way beyond reason and sad and will hurt the community in the long run.

I strongly urge people to see the movie "Gandhi" by Attenborough or read the short book "Gandhi" by William Shirer (who also wrote the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich) to get a perspective on where Mr. Gandhi is coming from.

"What would the USA do if Canada and Mexico suddenly decided to wage a war against us."

Attack Iran?

thopaine: israel was attcked first by hezbollah from Southern lebanon. Hezbollah had been massing arms and soldiers there since the Israelis wihdrew from the area. The lebanese government has allowed this state within a state, army within an army to develop and Iran and Syria have provided the money and munitions to make it happen. This all happened simultaneously with kidnapping, commando raids and rocket attacks by palestinians against Israel from Gaza. Israel retaliated heavily to send a clear message to the Lebanese government and to Iran and Syria and the UN that allowing a terrorist state within a state to continue will have devastating consequences. The Hezbollah had embedded itself into civilan areas and attacked Israel from churches, mosques, hospitals and private homes. Perhaps if they had not done this there would not have been a reason for Israel to retaliate. What would the USA do if Canada and Mexico suddenly decided to wage a war against us.

"we must strive for a future of peace that rejects violence"

"we can then find the path to peace and rejection of violence through forgiveness."

Are you thinking when you write these sentences, or do you just wait for the babble of a thousand peace conferences to float in like Muzack? I get it, you like peace. That doesn't exempt you from the complexities of conflict. And that is precisely why your last post was so offensive. It wasn't just "poorly worded." You ignored history, you glancingly mentioned a Culture of Violence without defining it, in fact your only tangible observation was that Israel has lots of weapons. You simply identified the stronger army, and all the fatuous explanations fell into place: "ensured by weapons and bombs," "determined to live by the bomb," "snakepit -with lots of deadly snakes in it."

I'm not concerned with your anti-semitism, you are too well meaning to systematically offend. But your analysis of world events is paper-thin, and I can't tolerate the fact that this scandal will pass, and you will continue to post vacuous tracts on your love of peace, while attacking the unfortunate few who must fight for it.

Victoria: That was exactly what I was trying to point out in my comment...this double standard in dealing with different people! That this should be happening here in the US is a real shame.

Thopaine,

I would agree that it's time for some sort of settlement of the problems/disputes...but of course, that's got to be a two way street. It takes two to agree, but only one to disagree, so unless Israel's neighbors can find a way to compromise, there will never be peace.

As to what constitutes its borders, I think it's interesting to note that after the 67 war in which Israel conquered the West Bank and Gaza (and the Sinai, lest we forget), they didn't push all the "palestinians" out of the territory, which arguably they had the right and power to do.

I also think the comment above regarding the founding of Israel because nobody in the world wanted the Jews after WWII is important. Even after the conflict, the exposure of the Holocaust, the reconfiguration of the European governments, there wasn't a single country in Europe (or the rest of the world, for that matter) which would stand up and say "Give me your Jews". THAT, my friend, is anti-semitism, and it still exists today.

IMO, the Israeli Jews should be removed from Israel and resettled in Europe; let's say in France, or maybe Switzerland, or Austria. Repatriate them, return their stolen properties and the profits therefrom over the years and let's be done with it. How about that?

Or, maybe we can give the Florida?

"I do not believe and should not have implied that the policies of the Israeli government are reflective of the views of all Jewish people"

this is the core of mr gandhis' apology.

however, it seems that, every jewish person in here so far has supported israel.

maybe a few small concessions- but every one ends their statements wit hsupport of israel.

is it so hard to understand that others may see this as a trend?

and not such a far off observation to make?

youre all welcome to your views, but we should also be welcome to notice, and comment that they exist.

this is not anti-semitism,it is merely havng eyes, and reporting what our eyes tell us.

if there are jewish people out there who want to express that they are anti-zionist, for example- or dont support israel-

then, logically, the statement would be invalid.

but it does not call for all the anger it has generated.

look at all the overtly hateful muslim questions on these boards-

s islam a religionof violence?
do women have equal rights in islam? how has it treated them?

misleading and accusatory questions- filled with hateful violent repsonses against muslims

on the other hand, the question is one of positive exposure for jewish people, and still people will not stand for even the slightest criticism no matter how reasonable.

Bierbelly: The same people who are slandering Mr Gandhi on this post for his alleged antisemitism!!

Mr Bierbelly; you state israel has a right to defend itself and its borders just like any other nation. Well, is not the entire issue exactly that: where are Israel's borders? The Arabs say it is their land, not Israel's. Israel responds that G-d(whose existence is in serious doubt)gave them this land.
Given this, how can Israel justify its 'shock and awe" murderous conduct eg the virtual destruction of lebenon? I seriously doubt any deity would justify that.
It would behoove Israel to settle it disputes with its neighbors now, because as these posts indicate, large and growing numbers of Americans are weary of being pulled into and paying for, Israel's mess.

Gandalf said:

"Just think though, if Mr Gandhi had made some similar comments on Muslims or Catholics, these same people probably would have praised him for his insightful commentary. If that is not double standards and hypocrisy, I wonder what is?"

Uh, WHICH "same people" Gandalf? Do you have any way in which to back up that observation, or is it just your opinion?

40 years of silence to protect Israel
Thu, 04 Oct 2007 00:52:16


USS Liberty Gravesite
On Jun 8 1967, in the midst of one of the deadliest conflicts between Israel and Arab states, USS Liberty, a US Navy intelligence ship, was attacked by Israeli warplanes and torpedo boats in international waters about 12.5 nautical miles from the coast of the Sinai Peninsula.

Thirty-four US servicemen were killed and at least 173 were wounded in what was considered as the second-deadliest attack against a US warship since the end of World War II and the single greatest loss of life by the US intelligence community.

Although Israel claimed that the incident was a mistake "caused by the confusion among the Israeli attackers about the precise identity of the USS Liberty", many believe that the attack was deliberate and premeditated. The proponents of this version include some of the surviving Liberty crewmen, and former US government officials, including then-CIA director Richard Helms and then-Secretary of State Dean Rusk as well as Admiral Thomas Hinman Moorer, former Chief of Naval Operations and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

The USS Liberty survivors

While Tel Aviv alleges that the Israeli Air Force attacked what it believed to be an Egyptian ship, others note that the Liberty was more than twice as large as El Quseir, an Egyptian vessel whose identity was allegedly confused with Liberty.

Alan Hart, the author of several books on the Middle East conflict and correspondent for ITN's News At Ten and the BBC's Panorama program wrote that " As it relates to the making and sustaining of the Arab-Israeli conflict, there is no better or more shocking example of how the truth of history has been suppressed than the Liberty Affair - Israel's attack, on 8 June 1967, on America's most sophisticated spy ship; an all-out attack which was originally intended to kill all of the Liberty's crew and sink the vessel but which, when the attack was called off, had killed "only" 34 American sailors and wounded 172 others."

"On 8 June this year I received from America's Council for the National Interest Foundation (CNI) the text of an op-ed carried by the San Diego Union Tribune of that day. It was headlined Forty Years Later, Searching for Truth. The writer of it was Ward Boston, Jr.."

" I am going to reproduce the text of the op-ed; then briefly summarize the results of my own search for the truth as set down in Volume Two of my book Zionism, The Real Enemy of the Jews; and I will conclude by addressing the question - Why the cover-up, by the media as well as the Johnson administration?"

A photo comparing USS Liberty with El-Quseir

Text of the San Diego Union Tribune's op-ed as quoted by Hart and with his emphasis added. (Non-italic parts)

Forty years ago this week, I was asked to investigate the heaviest attack on an American ship since World War II. As senior legal counsel to the Navy Court of Inquiry it was my job to help uncover the truth regarding Israel's June 8th 1967 bombing of the USS Liberty.

On that sunny, clear day 40 years ago, Israel's combined air and naval forces attacked our American intelligence-gathering ship for two hours, inflicting 70 percent casualties. Thirty-four American soldiers died and 172 were injured. The USS Liberty remained afloat only by the crew's heroic efforts.

Israel claimed it was an accident. Yet I know from personal conversations with the late Admiral Isaac C. Kidd - president of the Court of Inquiry - that President Johnson and Secretary of Defense McNamara ordered him to conclude that the attack was a case of "mistaken identity".

The ensuing cover-up has haunted us for 40 years. What does it imply for our national security, not to mention our ability to honestly broker peace in the Middle East, when we cannot question Israel's actions - even when they kill Americans?

On June 8th, survivors of Israel's cruel attack will gather in Washington DC to honor their dead shipmates as well as the mothers, sisters, widows and children they left behind. They will continue to ask for a fair and impartial congressional inquiry that, for the first time, would allow the survivors themselves to testify publicly.

For decades I have remained silent. I am a military man and when orders come in from the Secretary of Defense and President of the United States, I follow them. However, attempts to rewrite history and concern for my country compel me to tell the truth.

Admiral Kidd and I were given only one week to gather evidence for the Navy's official investigation, though we both estimated that a proper Court of Inquiry would take at least six months.

We boarded the crippled ship at sea and interviewed survivors. The evidence was clear. We both believed with certainty that this attack was a deliberate effort to sink an American ship and murder its entire crew.

I am certain that Israeli pilots and commanders who had ordered the attack knew the ship was American. I saw the bullet-riddled American flag that had been raised by the crew after their first flag had been shot down completely. I heard testimony that made it clear the Israelis intended there be no survivors. Not only did they attack with napalm, gunfire and missiles, Israeli torpedo boats machine-gunned at close range three life rafts that had been launched in an attempt to save the most seriously wounded.

I am outraged at the efforts of Israel's apologists to claim this attack was a case of "mistaken identity".

Admiral Kidd told me that after receiving the President's cover-up orders, he was instructed to sit down with two civilians from either the White House or the Defense Department, and rewrite portions of the Court's findings. He said, "Ward, they are not interest in the facts. It's a political matter and we cannot talk about it." We were to "put a lid on it" and caution everyone involved never to speak of it again.

"I know that the Court of Inquiry transcript that has been released to the public is not the same one that I certified and sent to Washington. I know this because it was necessary, due to the exigencies of time, to hand correct and initial a substantial number of pages. I have examined the released version of the transcript and did not see any pages that bore my hand corrections and initials. Also, the original did not have any deliberately blank pages, as the released version does. In addition, the testimony of Lt. Lloyd Painter concerning the deliberate machine-gunning of the life rafts by the Israeli torpedo boat crews, which I distinctly recall being given to the Court of Inquiry and included in the original transcript, is now missing.

I join the survivors in their call for an honest inquiry. Why is there no room to question Israel - even when they kill Americans - in the halls of Congress?
Let the survivors testify. Let me testify. Let former intelligence officers testify that they received real-time Hebrew translations of Israeli commanders instructing their pilots to sink "the American ship."

Surely uncovering the truth about what happened to American servicemen in a bloody attack is more important than protecting Israel. And surely forty years is long enough to wait.

"I salute the courage and integrity of three parties: Ward Boston Jr. for writing that; the Editor of the San Diego Union Tribune for publishing it; and the Copley family which owns the newspaper and allows it to be a beacon of light in an otherwise very dark and menacing mainstream media landscape. (I'm a former ITN and BBC Panorama correspondent, and it's my view that the mainstream media, out of fear of offending Zionism, is not only complicit in Zionism's suppression of the truth of history, but is betraying democracy)," Hart added.

"The attack on the Liberty was ordered by Defense Minister Moshe Dayan, Israel's charismatic, one-eyed warlord and master of deception. (I knew this Moshe well enough to have private conversations with him. If asked today to describe him in retrospect, I would say that he was a most engaging war criminal)," he concluded.

Religious and other minorities in this country seem to have become fair game in cyberspace. People feel free, for example, to attack Mitt Romney, not for his politics, but because he's a Mormon. I'd never thought I'd see the day when people felt free just to attack someone for his religious beliefs.

Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, Mormons, we all get our "fair share" (irony intended) of this abusive treatment, particularly in cyberspace. Frankly I'm tired of it. I happen to be a Jew but contrary to the anti-semites out there I don't feel I or my rights are more important than those of any other group. We are all in the same boat.

It's all well and good for each group to have its own anti-defamation league. They have their place.

But I think it's time for ALL of us minority groups, whether Mormons, Muslims, Jews, Sikhs, Hindus, blacks, or browns, to start banding together and making it clear that an attack on one minority is an attack on all. When people make reckless verbal attacks on Mormons, we Jews, Muslims, and other minority groups should stand up for them. Likewise when any other minority group is attacked or subjected to insensitive and hostile treatment. Just know when one minority is attacked, an attack on the next one is not far behind.

The Washington Post, seeking to glorify jews and their idiotic "identity questing" must surely, by now, realize that they've only succeeded in PICKING AT THE SORE of antisemitism. Making it bigger and redder.

No friends are being made here. Quite the opposite.

People must be getting SO SICK of the subject...

Is the Jewish community using the holocaust to try and stop the Darfur genocide? Really? Wake up and smell the coffee. It is being used to hold the world to a guilt ransom...

And remembering the ills of the holocaust is not bad, using it again and again and again for their benefit is not exactly commendable, say what?

Mr Katz: How can you be so cock-sure that Ghandi's advice to the jews during the holocaust was" ignorant?" It must be comforting to go through life so self-assured about matters of such gravity and complication, and in which you did not participate.I think you are the ignorant one. Who is correct?

I'll make this simpler for you, since your response was a non-response. If you are not capable of judging people as individuals first, before lumping this group and that group together to conveniently fit into your negative stereotypes, then you are a bigot. It's mirror time.

This supposed "apology" does almost nothing to refute Gandhi's original slander against the Jews, and I am one who happens to think that the Jews are wrong in their appropriation of Palestinian land. I think that Gandhi probably expressed his true feeling in his first post and then felt in necessary to try and amend his piece to appease his critics. As someone else wrote, "What a cop-out." From a purely argumentative stance both of these writings are extremely shabby. Either defend the whole article or reject it, but don't play innocent.

Mr. Gandhi,

Your apology misses the mark. Your previous comments made little sense - as an advocate of human rights, it defies reasoning that you would criticize Jewish people for remembering the ills of the Holocaust, and using the memory of the Holocaust to prevent further acts of genocide. In other words, by your logic, the Jewish community should move on past the Holocaust and not lead efforts to stop the genocide in Darfur.

Is this your idea of learning from the past:
"The holocaust was the result of the warped mind of an individual who was able to influence his followers into doing something dreadful."
I suggest you take a break from whatever it is you ordinarily do and read up - a lot - on the holocaust.
There were plenty of Germans knowingly carrying out the plans laid out by several Nazi leaders in the Wansee conference - from soldiers to train drivers. But it was not only the Germans who were all too happy to be rid of us. The Parisian Jews were rounded up within days of the Nazi conquest by the French police. US, UK and other western governments refused to accept Jewish refugees escaping from extermination. Ukrainian and Polish Jews were even massacred after they returned from the camps. There's plenty more examples of why a good proportion of the Western world, in my opinion, "must regret what happened to the Jews" (besides the notion that regretting it may somehow help avoid a repetition of the holocaust).
If it's forgiveness that you would like, let us assume the Jewish people are capable of somehow endowing the guilty entities with "forgiveness". What now? Does "forgiveness" mean not defending our national home by use of violence, as does every other nation - including your own?

The only thing your previous post had to do with the holocaust is the sad fact that it is a prime example of contemporary antisemitism, and fine proof of the necessity of ensuring Israel's survival - even by use of violence. To see such vile libel published so prominently, and by a descendant of such a model human being!

An apology will not do. I suggest your next publication should be a detailed historical account of the holocaust If you'd prefer something short, may I suggest an essay titled "Why criticising Israel because of its Jewish nature constitutes antisemitism".

The poor guy just got a taste of what happens when someone mentions a peep about the brutal actions of the Israeli military. Thanks jews for proving the point of his original article so well.

It has been an interesting few days reading Mr Gandhi and the comments his piece received.

My two cents: I would both agree AND disagree with Mr Arun Gandhi. And for the record, I think it was very gracious of him to come forth and apologize, it does take a lot of guts to do that. I hope people stop with the Gandhi-bashing after this.

First and foremost, it was wrong of him to use "Jews" and "Israel" interchangeably (as he acknowleged in his apology). Not all Jews are holding on to the holocaust. In fact, I would say the number is negligible. However and unfortunately, it is still being used in some circles to gain political mileage, which is utterly disgusting and nothing short of opportunism.

Moreover, at this stage, I am not sure whether a peaceful approach would be the most judicious move for Israel. Islamic extremism and fundamentalism the world over, and specifically in the ME has reached a level never witnessed before. That being said, Israel's geo-political policies are responsible, at least partially, for the ME crisis.

I would have to agree partially with Mr Gandhi's conclusion: "(Israel is) a nation that believes its survival can only be ensured by weapons and bombs... Well, with your superior weapons and armaments and your attitude towards your neighbors would it not be right to say that you are creating a snake pit? How can anyone live peacefully in such an atmosphere?" I am a big fan of Chomsky and think his view mirror those of Mr Gandhi here. Chomsky mentions in quite a few of his articles (and in no uncertain terms, I might add) about the bullying tactics of Israel, the use of deadly force against civilians, punishing innocent women and children for the crimes of terrorists. Case in point, the way Israel tried to rig the recent elections in Palestine. That was a despicable action. That notwithstanding, the Palestinians elected the government THEY wanted to see in power (which was someone Israel hoped would never get elected), following which Israeli hostilities towards civilians in Palestine has increased logarithmically. That was just a random example from a recent Chomsky op-ed piece. I think Mr Gandhi was referring to that kind of behavior when he talked about the "snake-pit".

A scary thing that this article brings out... in a place like US (we are not talking about Saudi Arabia or Iran people), it was believed that one if entitled to one's opinion. However, expressing one's views, as Mr Gandhi did, earns him the label of "ignorant" "insensitive" "anti-semite" etc. The people doing the labeling were exercising their right too, accepted. Just think though, if Mr Gandhi had made some similar comments on Muslims or Catholics, these same people probably would have praised him for his insightful commentary. If that is not double standards and hypocrisy, I wonder what is?

Thank you, but that's too little too late sir. You jumped on the anti israel anti semitic bandwagon with both feet and just added more bigotry and hatred to a centuries old problem. The enemies of the Jews and of Israel will hold up your diatribe as though it were written by your grandfather and you have succeeded in aiding them in their ongoing PR and propganda war. Now we should believe that you really didn't mean it and that you didn't consider your thoughts carefully before you wrote for an international audience. I am an American jew and have no plans to disassociate myself from the state of Israel as some readers here have suggested. I don't agree with all of Israel's policies but that doesn't mean I don't support their basic existential right to exist as a nation state in that place. It is the rejection of ANY jewish state by the surrounding arab countries that has caused the middle east conflict. This began in the 1920s with increased jewish immigration to the area and in 1947 after the UN partition plan was approved by a majority of voting countries. This violence began long before there were any government sanctioned settlements on the west bank of the Jordan river. The violence, terrorism, war, and economic boycott by the arab countries has largely forced Israel to be the kind of place that it is. In spite of all that, it is still a democratic country with arabs in the parliament and a very progressive and dynamic culture. To your point about Israel sharing it's technological expertise, Israel has offered it's hand to many arab countries during times of need but assistance from Israel is usually spurned as a matter of official policy by arab countries. Two examples would be during the devatating earthquakes in Iran and the tsunami in Indonesia. The plight of the Palestinians has been made worse by their own lack of leadership, refusal to drop the pursuit of Israel's destruction and by the arab monarchies and police states who use the palestinian issue to manipulate the populace. Try reading a Saudi,Egyptian or Syrian newspaper sometime and you will see the virulent anti semitism and anti israelism that is officially sanctioned by these dictators. They have no interest in resolving the conflict because it benefits them to perpetuate it.

Arun Gandhi has apologized, even though he had every right to speak his mind. I think you jews now need to apologize to him for all the unfair mean things you said to him. Are you people never satisfied?

Mr. G may have generalized too much in the first article. However someone must ahve twisted his arms pretty badly to get him to apologize.

Had his piece been about Hindu Extremism or Muslims or Islam in general you bet they would have asked for more.

Here's a different spin on the whole thing.

People have raised points indicating the hatred of Jews goes back to Roman times and maybe even beyond.

Perhaps then it is time to step back and ask oneself - why do they hate us so much?

And what are we doing to negate this hatred.

I agree with "A Reader". The Washington Post allows this blatant anti-semitism to be printed. They are just as responsible for allowing such liberties in "free speech" to spread false lies that spew nothing but hatred. So much for the Post being an honest broker.

Violence as a creed is most abominable be it the Hamas or the Israelis.Having occupied the West Bank and built settlements thereon what right Has Israel got to claim natural justice.
Arabs, the paletinians, a brilliant group among the Arabs cannot be victimes such mindless violence. That is why Hamas has so much support. To claim that it is only Iran which supports Hamas is a totally blinkered view.

So we must censure anything that the Jews might not like? Recall this came form the post trying to talk all day every day about Jews and get them to watch some Jewish propoganda on PBS (saw it last night, it was sheer propoganda)

You don't think the pot anti-semitism isn'g growing and boiling hard enough? Here and elsewhere?

You want to try to stop all discussion of Israel, instead of addressing it?

Didn't learn a whole lot from history, apparently.

By the way, Mr. Gandhi, you did NOT address the most vitriolic part of your post.

(the one which sounds almost exactly like Nazi propoganda posters I've seen displayed--minus of course the reference to Israel

and which seeks to blame the Jews for all the worlds problems, i.e. I guess Jews are responsible for Sudan, Kenya, Chechnya, etc):

"We have created a culture of violence (Israel and the Jews are the biggest players) and that Culture of Violence is eventually going to destroy humanity"

[It was the last paragraph of your post, in case you forgot]

___________________
Also, I've already seen your original post published on White Supremacist Sites, like National Vanguard, so I guess even your half-hearted apology is too little too late

You don't need to apologize, Mr. Gandhi. I, too, used to feel sorry for Jews watching those never ending WWII and Holocaust movies.

But what Israel has been doing in Palestine with the tacit support of MOST of Jews is more or less
the same( Nazi tactics).

ADL and other Jewish organizations are here in this country not to help America, but to defend Israel against any legitimate criticism. As far as I am concerned, supporters of Israeli policies are the war criminals as most of the Israelis themselves.

Jeff

More of the same. From you. My point exactly.

The Jewish People have survived for over three thousand years.

(The earliest reference to Israel is from the funery stela of the Egyptian Pharoah Merneptah, now in the Cairo Museum, which dates to 1209 B.C.)

All other empires that persecuted the Jews, from the Arameans to the Moabites, from the Babylonians to the Assyrians to the Selucids, from the Romans to the Spanish Inquisition to the Nazis to Communists, have fallen.

Yet the Jewish People are still here.

Yes, they are very tiny: there are only 13.2 million Jews in the world, compared to 1.7 Billion Muslims and 2 Billion Christians. However, I believe they will continue to survive.

Today, every Jew by birth that is alive is not only a descendent of the people of ancient Israel, but a descendent of those who survived great persecution and pressure to convert over countless centuries.

This is a great privilage and an incredible legacy.

Yet, today many Jews are ignorant of their own heritage, from the Hebrew Bible itself to the archaeology of Israel, from the Dead Sea Scrolls to the great works of the Rabbinic Era.

Thus, in this country and others they are intermarrying, turning away from the sacrifices of their ancestors and casting out this heritage.

Pressured by societies that still hold true to the ideas of Replacement Theology--the theology that the Church, or the Islamic Ummah, has replaced the Jewish People as G-d's choosen--they often want to assimilate into the maintstream.

Without the knowledge of their history, the Jewish People cannot understand the religious roots of Replacement Theology and how it evolved into anti-Judaism and then anti-Semitism.

They cannot understand how their tiny group can be so hated. After, all they were expelled by the Roman Empire and forced into millenia of Exile. Centuries of pogroms and explusion culminated in wholesale slaughter of gas chambers and mass graves that saw 1/3 of all Jews, including 2 million children, killed off in 4 years. Then final expulsion from the Arab world. Finally, a miraculous return to their ancestral homeland. Yet, no sympathy or support, only continual hatred.

They forget that Jesus was a Jew, as was Mary, Joseph, John the Baptist, Peter, Paul, all the Disciples, Isaiah, Jeremiah, all the Prophets, King David, Solomon, Jacob, Isaac, and Moses...

Thus, the Jewish People, simply, and tragically, internalize the word's hatred.

So, will they disappear over time?

No, it cannot be a coincidence that after 2,000 years of Exile the Jews have returned to their ancestral homeland to build a state, as it was predicted by Jeremiah and Isaiah.

Here is the future of the Jewish People, and as they have done for three millenium, they will--however small their numbers become--continue to survive and continue their ancestral legacy.

How many Jews do you know? Or is your claimed understanding of the Jewish people based solely on what you see on TV about Israel?

You say: "The fact that jews cannot see themselves as the rest of the world does, with almost no exceptions, and that they scream with characteristic viciousness when a mirror is held up, is not the problem of truth tellers."

I am a Jew and I like what I see in the mirror, buddy. Most of my Jewish friends and family are liberal, peace loving Jews who are very saddened by many Israeli policies (though we generally support the right to exist). I have colleagues and friends in Israel who feel the same way, but they obviously do not constitute a political majority. I also have many Jewish friends and colleagues who are vehemently supportive of Israeli policy. They may be very vocal and powerful, but do not define me or Judaism. By analogy, I am an American, but I would never let you pin blame for Bush's policies on me! What is the matter with you that can't distinguish between Israel (a pluralistic state) and its policies, on the one hand, and Jewish people on the other hand?

Are you aware of the fact that a disproportionate number of American lawyers representing GITMO detainees, pro bono, are Jewish? I am one of them. I do it because I believe in the Jewish tradition of Tzedakah, or Justice/Charity. How does that fact fit into your "Jew Mirror" nonsense?

Your views sadly strike me as being driven by notions of Jewish conspiracy. If you want to criticize Israel, be my guest. But don't foolishly equate all the world's Jewry with Israel. That warrants YOU TAKING A LOOK IN THE MIRROR.

To Mr. "STOP SPEWING VITRIOL ON GANDHI, LEARN TO ACCEPT THE TRUTH....YOU HYPOCRITES!!"

Many, like me, criticized Mr. Ghandi's post becuase he made the factually inaccurate and offensive claim that Jewish Identity is coextensive with violent Israeli policies. THIS IS NOT TRUTH, as you claim, and it is not hypocritical to call Mr. Gandhi out for this error. Mr. Gandhi himself recognized this was error and should be given credit for at least acknowleding this error.

You're defense of him is simply fist-pounding and adds nothing to the discussion. Mr. Gandhi's original post seemed totally ignorant of the fact - as you also appear to be - that Jews around the world are often the biggest and most outspoken critics of violence in Israel - including violence committed by Israelis. I would urge you to look deeper into the issue and recognized the many Jewish organizations, both inside and outside Israel, that are committed to finding a better way to peace in the region, one that does not include occupation or humiliation of the Palestinian people, regardless of the fact that they share equal blame for the cycle of violence (off the top of my head I offer you Encounter as an example: http://www.encounterprograms.org/sources.html#sources)

So please ease off the CAPS, and start using your mind and senses to observe the entire spectrum of viewpoints and actions that come from the world's Jewish communities. Judaism is forever linked to Israel, but it is NOT synonamous with Israeli military and occupation polices.

WHO DECIDED TO LET THE ORIGINAL PIECE RUN?

Who reviews the content?

Who made the decision?

So Ghandi unloads a major anti-semitic canard in a major newspaper -- "Israel and the Jews are the biggest players" in a global culture of violence -- and then he gets to put in a correction the next day claiming he was misread?

This is typical of politicians who fan the flames of their base with racist statements, then backpedal to maintain credibility with the media outlets they need for a platform. It is the one-two step of the David Dukes of the world. We've seen it all before.

It was very offensive to hear this guy opine on the "bleak future" of my people. And then support this genocidal musing with utterly false statements and slanted historical analysis.

QUESTION - Who was the Washington Post editor was who gave this bigot a platform and signed off on his insulting musings? Do you take any responsibility for your decision?

Mr. Gandhi's attempt at an apology doesn't address the most shameful sentence in his post, that "Israel and the Jews are the biggest players [in the world's culture of violence]". So, apparently he genuinely believes this. I continue to wonder how the editors of the Washington Post feel about this.

Arun Ghandi:

It is not the last Holocaust that Jews are obsessed about. In fact, it is extremists in the Middle East who are obsessed about perpetrating the next one that is so alarming.

Hamas activists speak openly of their desire to drink Jewish blood.

Hassan Nasrallah from Hezbollah in Lebanon says words to the effect that he is glad that Jews are gathering in Israel because they will be easier to kill.

This hostility and enmity is what directs Israeli policy, not a sense of grievance over the Holocaust.

Your apology, while welcome, is insufficient. At a certain point, Washington Post needs to apologize for running your explicit expression of antisemitism. And yes, that is what it was. It appeared under the brand of both Newsweek and the Washington Post and under the names of Jon Meacham and Sally Quinn. It is these people and businesses that should apologize.

Name Withheld Above

Notes that "billions" hate Jews.
Surely that's over stated!

When will someone conclude that either accepting that hatred or changing behavior to change the dynamic are the only two options. Screaming about it hasnt seemed to help, has it?

The treatmenet of Ghandi, and Israsl's deeds are perfect examples. Someone will rage " why should they change". Well don't. The same
results will result. Always has, always will.

The answer to Victoria's question ("are there american jewish people out there who have some reservations about some of the actions of israel?") is certainly yes.

Although many American Jews lean right when placed on the Israeli political spectrum, other American Jews identify more closely with the Israeli left (Labor, Meretz, Shalom Achshav). See, for example, Americans for Peace Now, Ameinu, the Union of Progressive Zionists, and Brit Tzedek V'Shalom.

I think Mr. Gandhi is attempting to urge Jews to move away from their historical feeling of victimization. Jewish history is riddled with oppression and persecution, and Mr. Gandhi's focus on the Holocaust distorts the source of that element of Jewish identity. Although Mr. Gandhi focuses exclusively on the Holocaust, when Jews think about victimization they might also think of the Inquisition in Spain, pogroms in Russia, and slavery in Egypt, to name only a few collective memories. As a progressive American Jew, I also urge Jews to move away from the feeling of victimization. A sense of history is valuable, but the feeling of victimization is too often used (by Jews and others) to rationalize unjust behavior.

However, even in apologizing, Mr. Gandhi suffers from poor word choice. He should avoid this topic if he is prone to such insensitivity when discussing it.

There is nothing wrong with Israel's policy of defending its citizens gainst attacks from Hamas, PLO, and others, and it is the morally correct thing to do. Gandhi's article is a lightweight piece that could have been written by a high school student unfamiliar with the history of the Arab-Israeli conflict and 20th century Europe. The only thing significant about it is the author's name (and I think commenters should ignore his grandfather's fame and accomplishments in discussing the article). The apology, of course, does not address the substance of the complaints about this piece.

just 4 the record my ancestors were jewish and i'm proud of my heratige and my spiritual walk as small as it may be......

Ghandi HAS NOTHING TO APOLOGIZE FOR!

He told the truth. The fact that jews cannot see themselves as the rest of the world does, with almost no exceptions, and that they scream with characteristic viciousness when a mirror is held up, is not the problem of truth tellers.

Time and time again we get idiotic posts about how wonderful Israel is, how the occuptation and genocide and land grabbing in Palestine is "defense". The whole world is sick of it.

Bowing to the usual screams...the same kind WHEN PRESIDENT JIMMY CARTER told the truth recently...serves no one, least of all the screamers.

the american indians knew where north america was before columbus came. the palistinians knew where palastine was before the big countries carved up the new world. eye personally am ashamed of how we treated the natives here. i have a little cherrokee in me. just where are the reservations for the palistinians? i would have assumed a great religion like judeism would have a little more honesty, and charictar, and compassion for the plight of what are human beings just like they are.... i choose to believe the true jews know how to read thier own covenants and laws and know they will have to answer to God.... just like the rest of us. it appears that a minority of money grubbing thugs and power pinheads that exist in the christian the muslum i suspect all religions. if your going to fight religious fasist lets fight them all.... including my misguided christian fasist brothers i guess we should call the neocon christofasist aand judeofacist

What a cop out.

Mr. Gandhi

I understood your original posting. It’s a regrettable fact that the minute someone makes an observation concerning a government, regardless of which one, people automatically assume it is a judgment against the people. The policies that any government uses are not always the wishes of the populace. Governments, historically, will do what they wish saying it is for the greater good. The reality is that they like the heads of this government better than the heads of that government or they want something this country has so they do what they can to pacify them. Of course when the heads of a particular government change it can get very messy.

Now I may be wrong here but put simply: no one wanted the Jewish people at the end of the war. However the bottom line was that they needed to send them somewhere … obviously they couldn’t leave them in Germany. So the world leaders got together and decided to give them land. After batting several ideas amongst themselves they picked a spot and said this is now theirs. It didn’t matter that it was already occupied. So a new country was born.

Now I would think that somewhere someone would have figured out that this wasn’t going to work. The people who where displaced were obviously going to be highly irritated at being ousted and regardless of what the governments told them would want to make those taking over uncomfortable at best. So one side does something and the other side retaliates and so one and so on. When all is said and done the people living there end up doing a lot of finger pointing and yelling that the other side started it. The reality is that governments caused the problem by not being farsighted. How can they be surprised at the way things are? Human nature being what it is how could they expect any other result? Pick any major city in any other country and repeat this situation and see if you don’t a bomb in your shorts … bet you do.

What a cop out.

Mr. Gandhi, what you think of a historical event of the past has been coming (and in more diluted forms happened many times over before) is not even two generations remote for us. Your attitude is that no matter how much we have recovered, we must forget about it, its origins and its lasting effect.

I am glad Jews make every attempt to remember every lost person and value every life. I am glad I am not from the people who sacrifice dozens and hundreds and thousands of their own and their neighbors and then go on without memories, without shock.

If you are a humanist, you should tremble of an idea that the only institution in the world that gives Jewish culture a hope of survival and reversal of the dooming prospects of the past centuries is been bashed, attacked, and astrasized.

Mr. Ghandi,

Your apology is appropriate and welcome, as far as you have taken it. While you may have clarified some of the substance of your original comments, what is sadly lacking in your latest posting is a retraction of the suggestion that Jews “overplay” the Holocaust to manipulate the international community.

You do little to ease concern that you truly believe there is a direct connection between the unspeakable atrocities perpetrated by the Nazis in their maniacal effort to eradicate the Jewish people and the policies of the government of Israel. Israel’s policies are designed to protect the safety and well-being of its citizens against terrorism by sworn enemies of the Jewish people, some of whom are determined finish the job Hitler started.

Indeed, the apology only seems to reinforce your original conclusion by again suggesting that Holocaust survivors and their families “…hold on to historic grievances too firmly….” This is an outrageous statement -- suggesting that just 60 years after the Holocaust, survivors and their relatives should “let go” of their anger at losing their entire families, homes, livelihoods, and at having their communities wiped out. The memory of the six million who perished in the Nazi gas chambers, concentration camps, work camps and death marches should be preserved as a lesson for all time.

Especially offensive was your suggestion that “Israel and the Jews are the biggest players” in promoting a “culture of violence that is eventually going to destroy humanity.” This outrageous libel of an entire people and of a country that wants nothing more than to live in peace and security with its neighbors -- and has said so repeatedly -- is mind-boggling coming from someone so respected in the field of nonviolence education and advocacy. It shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, in which the Palestinians have fostered exactly the sort of “culture of violence” you denounce so vociferously.

We believe you owe a true apology to the Jewish people for your insensitive and offensive remarks about the Holocaust, and your suggestion that the memory of its victims is being misused to advance a nation’s violent behavior. This is a classic attempt to blame the victim.

Sincerely,
The Anti-Defamation League

Victoria,

Your post is a classic example of biggoted generalization. No, not ALL American Jews support the violent acts committed in Israel, by Israel, nor their governments' instransigent attitude and political stances. However, we must recognize Israel's right to defend itself and secure its borders. That is any government's obligation to its people.

As to forgiveness, I'd say that forgiveness of a single murder is not commensurate in scope with your proposed "forgiveness" as to the Holocaust. That was an attempt to eliminate an entire people from the face of the Earth, one instance in a series of such attempts throughout history. We have no doubts that it can happen again, so to forgive and forget is not possible.

This is insufficient. Your original piece was classic anti semitism. Blaming "the Jews" for the ills of the world has been going on since the Roman empire.

More to the point, this illustrates something that troubles many of us. In your post, you easily interchanged "Jews" and "Israel". And your response is that you didn't mean to conflate the two. That, in fact, doesn't seem to matter. Jews will alway been blamed for Israel and vice-versa, much like the Jews in the diaspora of the Roman Empire were forced to pay a tax to support the Temple of Jupiter that was erected on the Temple Mount after the Judean Revolt of 132-135.

Distancing ourselves from Israel should not be a prerequisite for defending ourselves against an anti Jewish attack.

Your "apology" is too little, too late. Those who hate Jews, and the numbers are in the billions, are going to use your first post in their propaganda wars. And why wouldn't they? It's a prize piece given the golden burnish of being from a grandson of the great Mahatma. As an aside, I find your viewpoint more than facile coming from someone of a Hindu background. Hindus joyously slaughtered thousands of Muslims during Partition and continue to do so from time to time. Unless they are slaughtering Sikhs.

i believe the onus is on american jews to disassociate themselves ideologically from aligning themselves with israel, right or wrong.

american jewish people, not israelis who have their own internal conflicts.

i have read countless observations from israeils i their press that the perception is that american jewry is more likened politically to the likud than israelis themselves.

are there american jewish people out there who have some reservations about some of the actions of israel?
or is the initial statement that jewish people are synonymous with israel valid?

i hope to be proven wrong-
i really do-

and i hope people appreciate your graciousness, and respond appropriately without gleeful gloating

and i hope that free speech still matters to some people, even if it makes them personally uncomfortable.

including all jews in your statement was overreaching, definitely.

but understandable in the light of lack of rebuttal from the expressions of american jewry.

are there any out there who have an opinion about israel that isnt party line?

saving your allowance as a child to plant a tree in israel is a far cry from having an adult rational approach to the oppression of the palestinian people

and the time is overdue to forgive for an event that happened 60 years ago,no matter how tragic

most of the victims are no longer with us-

and if it didnt happen to you, your anger is not justified

my mother was murdered-
i forgave her murderer

but it didnt happen to me- it happened to her-
and i do not stay angry and bitter, but forgive and move on.

this is the point of mr gandhi

forgive, move on- build a better tomorrow.
dont teach your children your anger-teach them your peace.

i have no problem with absorbing whatever residual anger meant for mr gandhi.

It is "important not to forget the past". Indeed. Your esteemed grandfather, I believe, suggested that Jews attempt his philosophy of non-violent civil disobedience against the German Nazis and their accomplices. I'd like to know if your understanding of the Holocaust has progressed beyond that ignorant piece of advice (from an otherwise saintly man). If you really think Israel's current policies (the most self-effacing in our national history, no less!) make any difference whatsoever in the Muslim/Arab hatred for Israel, then you simply have not been paying attention.