A Better Choice for Evangelical Outreach

Archie is a working kitty and desrves all praise.

Farnaz & Astoria,

Here's my reply to your posts minus Mehitabel's editorial which I've sent separately:

Farnaz & Astoria,

Thanks for your posts and the poems. I enjoyed them very much.

"The Lesson of the Moth" was very interesting. Its message reminded me of Housman's "To An Athlete Dying Young" and of these lines from Robinson Jeffers's "Shine, Perishing Republic":

"You making haste, haste on decay: not blameworthy; life is good, be it
stubbornly long or suddenly
A mortal splendor: meteors are not needed less than mountains:
shine, perishing republic"

The moth poses a question for all of us to ponder.
As you know, the author of "The Lesson of the Moth", Don Marquis, is also the creator of "Archie and Mehitabel".
And here's some interesting news: Mehitabel's back, and in no less an august place than the pages of the Journal SCIENCE.
Last year Mehitabel composed an editorial about
an article in SCIENCE undertaking to explain the domestication of cats. She's quite upset:
Editorial

**************************************************
EDITORIAL REDACTED
**************************************************
Apropos of these lines:

"why do they think today we occasionally bring a bloody present into the house and lay it on the bed or the best rug it's because we want to remind everyone that we are volunteers not repressed conscripts like the damn rovers and fidos"

Last evening my wife was reclining in front of the TV when Archie cam over to her and gave her a present of a small grey object, which she took to be one of the several catnip mice lounging on the carpet.

Closer inspection revealed, however, that the mouse was not catnip but real.

Kathy does not favor rodents of any kind so we had quite a kerfuffle until our son Mike gently buried the deceased in a snowbank outside.

We than congratulated Archie and petted him mightily.

Best to both of you.

Farnaz & Astoria,

Here's a link to Mehitabel's editorial. If it gets through to you I'll send the rest of my reply to you.

Wish us luck.

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/317/5838/571

Farnaz & Astoria,

Thanks for your posts and the poems.

I've composed a post in reply and have been trying to send it to you, but the WaPo has censored it for reasons which escape me. I think it may be because of some words Mehitabel (yes, really) wrote in an editorial in the journal SCIENCE last year about the domestication of cats.

I'll try to find a way around the censor's block.

Best wishes.

N.

Dear Norrie Hoyt:

Here's one of my favorite cat poems, by the master.

The Cat and the Moon

The cat went here and there
and the moon spun round like a top,
and the nearest kin of the moon,
the creeping cat, looked up.
Black Minnaloushe stared at the moon,
for, wander and wail as he would,
the pure cold light in the sky
troubled his animal blood.

Minnaloushe runs in the grass
lifting his delicate feet.
Do you dance, Minnaloushe, do you dance?
When two close kindred meet,
what better than call a dance?
Maybe the moon may learn,
tired of that courtly fashion,
a new dance turn.

Minnaloushe creeps through the grass
from moonlit place to place,
the sacred moon overhead
has taken a new phase.
Does Minnaloushe know that his pupils
will pass from change to change,
and that from round to crescent,
from crescent to round they range?

Minnaloushe creeps through the grass
alone, important and wise,
and lifts to the changing moon
his changing eyes.

W.B. Yeats

I had an Archy named after the same vers libre poet- and a Mehitabel that I took off the street who was pregnant (although she didn't have dancing Mehitabel's "Kittens? What kittens? and "What have I done to deserve all these damn kittens?" attitude.

As a matter of fact, OnFaith is my first blogging experience, and when I first came here I posted all sans caps (as an homage to don marquis) but it annoyed folks so much that I stopped.

I've posted this poem by marquis several times here- the lesson of the moth-
http://www.donmarquis.com/readingroom/archybooks/moth.html

One of my wedding presents to my husband was an old copy of "Old Possums's Book of Practical Cats"

Also, I didn;t know nudity was legal in Vermont- but I digress - alot- and hope the good Rabbi isn't too annoyed by all this cat talk. Somehow I think he isn't.
Yours for rum,rhyme,and reason.
Victoria

Dear Norrie Hoyt:

One good turn deserves another. Here is Keats' cat poem--hope you and your son enjoy it!

To Mrs Reynolds' Cat

Cat! who hast pass’d thy grand climacteric,
How many mice and rats hast in thy days
Destroy’d? How many tit bits stolen? Gaze
With those bright languid segments green, and prick
Those velvet ears - but pr’ythee do not stick
Thy latent talons in me - and upraise
Thy gentle mew - and tell me all thy frays,
Of fish and mice, and rats and tender chick.
Nay, look not down, nor lick thy dainty wrists -
For all thy wheezy asthma - and for all
Thy tail’s tip is nick’d off - and though the fists
Of many a maid have given thee many a maul,
Still is that fur as soft, as when the lists
In youth thou enter’dest on glass bottled wall.

by John Keats

Farnaz2,

Thanks for calling my attention to Persiflage's posts - I'll try to catch up with them. When posters here have called me an atheist (notably Mary Cunningham) I've replied that I'm not an atheist - I'm an agnostic with Buddhist sympathies.

Cats are very much creatures of pattern and habit, but I can't recall any of the cats my family or I have had since I was three years old who continually repeated a pattern as precise as Belle's. Cats have definite greeting rituals but I can't recall leaving rituals. Belle and Archie routinely sniff each other out from nose to tail (actually it's under the tail) when they first encounter each other.

Belle and Archie also have definite play-fighting rituals, as predictable and elaborate as those of the humans who used to fight duels. These same fighting rituals, playful or for real, are common to all cats.

I wasn't aware of Keats's cat poem. My older son is very knowledgable about literature and I'll ask him about it. I imagine you're familiar with T.S. Eliot's "Old Possum's Book of Practical Cats". I was delighted in college to find it in the same book as "The Wasteland" etc. It was easier to read and required no interpretation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Possum's_Book_of_Practical_Cats

Dear Norrie Hoyt,

I, too, am interested in Buddhism. Thus far, the most knowledgeable blogger on that vast subject appears to be Persiflage, who posted quite a bit on Jacoby's current thread.

Why don't you bring up the subject of Buddhism and cats with him? I'd sure he'd be interested, and there are many, many cat lovers around here. Once, I posted a whole bunch of cat poems. Did you know Keats had written one?

You know, I never met a cat with the kind of ritual you describe, but I've often seen greeting, leaving, playing, etc., rituals among dogs. Are they common among cats?

Your son't discovery of Mehitabel Hoyt is truly wonderful. I wonder if Belle realizes she, in fact, has two source names.

Animals are the best people, I think. I've got a friend whose family lore includes pet stories handed down from generation to generation.

Farnaz

Farnaz2 and Astoria,

Our cats' names are Archie and Belle - taken from the story of Archie and Mehitabel, and from the fact that my mother's maiden name was Archibald. My son discovered that over a hundred years ago there actually was a Mehitabel Hoyt.

Archie's official name is Dr. Archibald, for my grandfather, Dr. O. Wellington Archibald, who was a military surgeon and the first superintendent of the North Dakota Hospital fot the Insane. He was quite a character who owned racehorses in the Dakotas in the late 1800's and once accepted a bear cub in payment for a medical bill - he gave it to the St. Paul Zoo when it got to be too big for his house.

It's interesting, Astoria, that both your mother's cat and ours were named Belle, and it's great that you have all those cats and kittens. We had a Manx cat named Onion when I was a boy - unfortunately Manxes have short lifespans, for genetic reasons.

Farnaz, Belle doesn't sit on my lap, but rather performs the elaborate ritual, described in an earlier post, where she jumps on my knees and then walks up my chest to land her head over my right shoulder, and then nuzzles my neck.

Cats are great creations aren't they? From childhood I've often thought that the world and the universe would be in better shape if the Lord had put them in charge here.

I wonder what Rabbi Waskow makes of all this cat talk. Much as I like Judaism, I'm more attracted to Buddhism, as it holds that cats and humans have the same inner and ultimate nature.

Best to you both.

Thinking of Belle reminded me of Jezebelle(my mom was a bit redundant in her naming of cats)
a cat we had earlier. Jezebelle was a Norwegian Forest cat- and much to my surprise- when I looked it up I found this in Wikipedia-

"The first international association to accept the breed was FIFe, in 1977. They are rumored to be the early ancestors of the Maine Coon and the long-haired Manx."

Not only that- but I had a Manx cat (but a white short hair) in my early 20's- he was jacked up like a racer and could run and climb like a champ.

All in the family I guess- the internet is a fascinating place.
http://www.cfainc.org/breeds/profiles/norwegian.html

Thanks Norrie, My mom's last cat was a coon cat named Belle. She was a fiercely loyal cat- and also was best friends with our border collie.
Once she attacked a german shepherd pup (year old) who threated Hobo the collie leaping on his face and if I didn't grab her from his snarling mouth (I do not recomment it but would do it again) she would have been a dead kitty. She had a lion heart.

I have 4 kittens right now who are 3 weeks old and just starting to explore. (and 6 adults- that is another story)

Rabbi, when you're right, you're right!

NorrieHoyt:

Does the girl ever sit on your lap? I read they're not "lap cats." They're unbearably cute though. A number of them have a sort of surprised look. Others look very earnest. Some have a sort of hug me expression.

Ah, Norrie Hoyt, 'tis dangerous for me to keep looking at them. I found a couple of kittens for sale, and knew I'd better stop for awhile.

What are your cats' names?

Farnaz,

Glad you liked the Coon Cat photos.

Here are two more curious facts about coon cats:

**Most cats are fully grown and developed by the time they're a year and a half old. Coons aren't fully grown and developed until they're four or five years old. Our cats will be two years old in February, so we don't know what they may turn out to be over the next two or three years. Their slow development does not, however, extend their lifespans beyond those of other breeds.

**Coon Cats don't utter a true "meow" unless they're seriously distressed. Their usual vocaliztion is either a musical chirp or trill. Very pleasant. Our cats talk a lot with us.

Yes some, but not all, Coon Cats grow to be very large to huge. Others are perfectly normal-sized. Still, the Cat Fanciers Asociation recognizes the Maine coon as the heaviest of all the breeds it recognizes. A normal adult weight could be 19 pounds but I've seen internet pictures of 30-40 pounders.

I don't know that Coon Kittens are much different from other breeds' kittens. They're all entrancing and delightful.

The males are heavier than the females. Our male is very affectionate but laid back and not terribly demonstrative. He loves to see us and purrs loudly when petted. Though neutered, he amuses himself by chasing his sister, who fights back vigorously. Our female is very demonstratively affectionate. When she sees me sitting on the couch, she jumps onto my knees and climbs over my chest to my right shoulder (always the right!). Then she nuzzles my neck for a long time. You can hear her purring two rooms away.

Glad you're interested in Coons. Here's a good site that tells more about them (despite the curious non-standard English in which it is written - I think the writer may be Russian):

http://giantpets.ru/eng/mainecoon/

N.

NorrieHoyt:

Thanks for the wonderful link! My, they do grow to be rather large, don't they! How do the males and females differ? What are they like as kittens?

Farnaz

Farnaz2,

Thanks for your Christmas Day post.

Maine coon cats are delightful and very smart.

I don't know how much you read about Maine Coons, but Wiiepedia is a good place to start - just google Maine Coon Cats.

I also recommend going to Google images - they're great-looking animals:

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=maine+coon+cats&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2

The cats have several distinctive physical features: Fur growing downward from the bottoms` of their feet ("snowshoes"); voluminous fur growing from their ears; wonderful Elizabethan ruffs (voluminous fur covering the neck and upper breast); and their tails, great fluffy expressive
things which one writer termed "the Maine Coons' glory".

Personality: MCs want to be involved with everything their human companions are doing - our brother-sister coons have walked more than a mile with us over a dirt road and bordering wooded hillsides.

They're personable, affectionate, much fun.

Our cats have an interesting trait. If they want to eat a slice of meat on a plate, instead of grabbing it with their teeth, they spear it with a paw, then invert the paw and carry the paw + the meat to their mouths, just like a human using a fork.

And then the folklore: the early European settlers thought they were a cross between domestic cats and raccoons, something which is physcally impossible. You may have read the story that all Amereican Coons are descended from seven cats sent to America by Marie Antoinette to keep them safe.

I've gone on at such length because I'm really enthusiastic about them.

All best wishes.

NorrieHoyt,

Thank you so much for your good wishes, and I wish you the same. I'd never heard of Maine Coon cats, so I looked them up. Sooo....How smart are they?!

Happy holidays!

Farnaz

FARNAZ2,

Thanks for your latest post. I'm glad you found some of my posts to be of interest.

I wish you a happy Christmas Day if you celebrate it.

My family and I, descended from Protestants, make a big deal out of Christmas: presents, food, music, friends, conversation, and catnip for the Maine Coon cats, all without a whiff of religion.

I wish you the same contentment.

Oops, make that Gray's Anatomy and again through all the rhetoric, gay sexual activity from below, on top, backwards, forwards, from this side of the Moon and from the other side too, is still mutual masturbation caused by one or more sexual defects. Such defects are visually obvious in for example the "maleness" of DeGeneres, Billy Jean King and Rosie O'Donnell.

NorrieHoyt:

Thanks, I found some info, and, of course, you're right about what you say regarding public personas.

Every now and then, more then than now, one comes across a blogger whose remarks, are in some good ways, exceptional. It takes awhile of reading them to come to that determination. Hence, my curiosity.

Best,
Farnaz

FARNAZ2,

I can't fathom why you want to know "who" I am.
Nobody else does.

Are you with the FBI, CIA, NSA, DHS, ICE, MI5 or 6?

I believe in making life easier for people, so, as for googling, you might google "Norrie Hoyt + Vermont Legislature" and then click on "Acts of the 1999-2000 Vermont Legislature."

This will tell you something of my public persona up until a few years ago [but only a part]. But of course I never was that persona, just as nobody is their persona.

Regards.

NorrieHoyt:

Hard to say what Obama's thinking is. Remember, Warren has not only revealed himself to be homophobic but also antisemitic. He believes that all Js are going to hell.

He's an opportunist, as Susan Jacoby said an Elmer Gantry type, whose greatest contribution to American society would be an invitation to the IRS to examine his books.

My guess is that Obama invited him partly to send a message to Lowery that he's nobody's boy, partly to bring the snake handler into the mainstream. That strategy could have some effect. The old hypocrite has already cleaned up his filthy web site.

Will gays, Jews, and Muslims therefore think this was okay?

I doubt it.

PS. I still want to know who you are. That you live in Vermont explains something. I'm going to try google.

EFAVORITE,

You wrote:

"...what obama has actually said to better understand how he made his decision, e.g. that he supports gay issues..."

My wife and I were early and enthusiastic Obama supporters despite his opposition to gay marriage (a nasty comingling of ignorance and politics).

But we've seen no evidence yet that Obama "supports gay issues". We're beginning to think he really does have either a blind spot about, or an unconscious prejudice against, gays.

Hope we're wrong.

"Interesting, rabbi, how you reject all the possible scenarios that you present. Maybe you could have concocted one you like? Or even used some of what obama has actually said to better understand how he made his decision, e.g. that he supports gay issues, that he is friendly with Warren, that he thinks people can disagree without being disagreeable.

Surely there could be something in the man's own words to give us a clue."

Always love to see majoritarian catholic "atheist" white people lecturing Jews. Somehow, nobody told the moral illiterates that there is such a thing as inductive reasoning. The same thinking that finds anti-black racism offensive should also find offensive anti-Jewish, anti-Muslim racism offensive and homophobia objectionable.

It doesn't, however. It's them christian genes.

FITZ4,

"I prefer Supreme Court Justices Anthony Scalia’s analogy with nudists.

"After all – who gets hurt by nudists? How is someone affected by nudists? Why is nakedness against the law in public? What’s the harm????"

Public nakedness is not against the law in Vermont because there is no harm.

CCNL:

You know something, you are an illiterate moron, with homosexual tendencies, to boot. Also, you are a prig and a shmuck. You have no idea who this man it. I am hardly in love with Jewish Renewal (many apologies, R. Waskow. In some ways, I have the utmost respect for you, but I live with realpolitik.)

Why don't you go masturbate with your NT, crucifix, and crossan cuddly?

According to many of the 1.5 million Conservative Jews and their rabbis in the USA, Rabbi Waskow is not only deaf but also blind when it comes the history and theology of Judaism.

To wit:

From http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/ConservativeTorah.htm

"New Torah For Modern Minds

Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.

Such startling propositions -- the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years -- have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity -- until now.

The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called ''Etz Hayim'' (''Tree of Life'' in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine document. "

Interesting, rabbi, how you reject all the possible scenarios that you present. Maybe you could have concocted one you like? Or even used some of what obama has actually said to better understand how he made his decision, e.g. that he supports gay issues, that he is friendly with Warren, that he thinks people can disagree without being disagreeable.

Surely there could be something in the man's own words to give us a clue.

But did the historic Jesus really say

Matt 5:27-28

/5:27/ "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.' /5:28/ But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart. " ?????

No he did not according to many contemporary historic Jesus exegetes. The passage is only found in Matthew's gospel. Therefore it is a single attestation. It was apparently added to Matthew's gospel between 80-120 CE. And probably added to make this simple preacher man into a smarter person than he really was or a deity which he was not.

e.g.

http://www.faithfutures.org/JDB/jdb396.html

Sorry, that should have been Rabbi Waskow!

Dear Rev Waskow

Happy Hannukah!

Soja John Thaikattil
Sydney, Australia

Warren has released a video denying saying homosexual relationships are like incest.

There is a video on Beliefnet that verifies he is now lying.

At first I thought asking Warren was alright because he was balanced by the other person that is doing a pray (Pastor) that believes in gay marriage; however, when I heard his statements at Beliefnet I changed my mind.

As a member of a mainline Protestant church, which is the second largest Protestant Church, I was very offended at Warren's remarks that we do not care about Jesus, redemption, the cross, etc. Warren offended over 23 million Americans.

Warren is not the moderate that many claim. I have difficulty classifying him as a Christian.

I'd say Obama's selection of Rick Warren is a political move. After all, isn't he a politician and a hugely popular one at that? If you will recall the quote that Obama made during the primary stating that economically frustrate people cling to guns or religion (http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-04-13-obama-clinton_N.htm). I guess the public at large can never really know his true feelings on the subject, but this rare political misstep during the primary is probably closer to his views on religion. Hence, he utilizes religion just like any other politician--to gain a political goal.

Arthur Waskow (writes)
"For some, it's simple enough: He's right, God thinks gay male and maybe lesbian sex are as sinful as pederasty and bestiality."

Rev. Warren never said this.

Jesus said that to just look at another woman with lust in your eye's was the same as adultery.

That is the kind of sexual standard bearer the new testament Jesus is..

Rick Warren was making a point about sexual sin in general. That’s not the same as comparing gays to bestiality. Politically it’s unattractive but intellectually it is as valid as all the questions about polygamy and the like…

I prefer Supreme Court Justices Anthony Scalia’s analogy with nudists.

After all – who gets hurt by nudists? How is someone affected by nudists? Why is nakedness against the law in public? What’s the harm????