Relationships (Even with God) are Hard

To Helen K

I am sorry for the suffering you are going through. My thoughts here may not comfort you but perhaps they are worth considering. you talk about God "allowing" your daughter to have cancer. If we truly believe in free will, then God must allow us to have the full complement of human existence, not just the good. To do otherwise would be denying us the free will we have and the right to create our own lives.

This also requires us to face challenges and experience consequences. The world of people focuses more on conflict and cooperation. Rather than banding together to combat disease, hunger, pollution, etc., the nations of the world fight for their own advantage. Perhaps if we stopped war and trying to be number one, the resources we wasted would have found a cure for your daughter's cancer by now. The US alone spends about $600 billion a year on defense (including the wars we're in). Globally, the figure is probably closer to $1 trillion. Imagine if that money and human capital were spent on helping people rather than hurting people.

This is our lesson to learn. People like your daughter and the millions of hungry people out there are daily reminders of our misguided priorities. They pay a terrible price to try to teach us about our folly before that folly destroys our planet. What a noble sacrifice they make!

Should God stop them from making that sacrifice? Who is God to give us free will and then tell His children that they cannot fight for their brothers' and sisters' salvation?

I have also believed that those who make such sacrifices are not martyrs; they reap rewards of a different type. Battling cancer can strip away all the irrelevancies in one's life. Too often we go through life valuing unimportant things like money, social status, and material possessions. These things mean nothing when death threatens to take your life. Your daughter has the opportunity to find who she truly is and what she truly values since that is all that she has left. What more can one ask of a lifetime than to find one's true self?

If there is a God and there is an afterlife, what more can one hope to take into that afterlife than the knowledge of who you are and the knowledge that you fought and died for the well being and growth of your brothers and sisters? To allow your daughter to have that experience is why God "allows" her to suffer.

Rather than saying anything, let me offer you the story about Rabbi Zushia from Annapoli. A man who was well off had some "questions". His Rebbe told him to visit Reb Zushia.

Reb Zushia was a sexton the a synagogue, and was destitute, lacking what most people seemed to have. The well-to-do man asked Reb Zushia if he needed anything, and Zushia's reply was "I have everything I need".

We have literally everything, but for some reason there are Klipot that keep us away gettin' to the Light of Understanding.

Rather than saying anything, let me offer you the story about Rabbi Zushia from Annapoli. A man who was well off had some "questions". His Rebbe told him to visit Reb Zushia.

Reb Zushia was a sexton the a synagogue, and was destitute, lacking what most people seemed to have. The well-to-do man asked Reb Zushia if he needed anything, and Zushia's reply was "I have everything I need".

We have literally everything, but for some reason there are Klipot that keep us away gettin' to the Light of Understanding.

Rather than saying anything, let me offer you the story about Rabbi Zushia from Annapoli. A man who was well off had some "questions". His Rebbe told him to visit Reb Zushia.

Reb Zushia was a sexton the a synagogue, and was destitute, lacking what most people seemed to have. The well-to-do man asked Reb Zushia if he needed anything, and Zushia's reply was "I have everything I need".

We have literally everything, but for some reason there are Klipot that keep us away gettin' to the Light of Understanding.

Rather than saying anything, let me offer you the story about Rabbi Zushia from Annapoli. A man who was well off had some "questions". His Rebbe told him to visit Reb Zushia.

Reb Zushia was a sexton the a synagogue, and was destitute, lacking what most people seemed to have. The well-to-do man asked Reb Zushia if he needed anything, and Zushia's reply was "I have everything I need".

We have literally everything, but for some reason there are Klipot that keep us away gettin' to the Light of Understanding.

"The definition of "atheist" precludes the Pew findings. Suggest you examine survey for design problems."

It's a 'religious identification survey.' It's based on how people identify.

When one needs answers - they do appear. I am currently in a deep spiritual struggle with God. I am so angry with him for allowing my 21 yr old daughter to have a rare and aggressive form of cancer. Though she is getting treatment and is not currently in any pain- (thank God...yeah there is that long standing relationship thing kicking in), I am angry and disappointed that our life is being changed by this. I know Ihave to make the choice daily to love, trust and forgive those I choose to keep in my life. I was taught this through a program of healing hurting marriages when my husband disappointed me and angered me. Should I do less for God, who, honestly, I have had a longer relationship than with my husband. Its a real challenge.
I like how Heschel writes," 'At times we must believe in Him in spite of Him.' It's that way in all relationships--in marriage, with children, in the workplace. No relationship is perfect at all times. "
But the real challenge is the praise in praying to God when you are angry with him. THat I am still struggling with.

Rabbi Bachman here employees an argument by analogy equating God with a significant other. As a rule arguments by analogy only function as well as the analogy themselves. As the Rabbi admits evidence of God is lacking, whereas we are fully convinced in the reality of a significant other. The argument is fallacious. If you are uncertain of God's existence why should you fight for the relationship?

If we choose to hold to the analogy he has given despite the obvious objections there is a further problem. Say we fight for a relationship with God, is God fighting for it too? In a personal relationship one side can't do all the work. The way that God is supposed to hold up his side of the relationship will probably be cited as general feelings or fortuitous events in one's life. But this is like being in a marriage where your spouse refuses to talk to you and you have to guess what he/she is feeling by whether his/her side of the bed has been slept in or if they picked the kids up from school. It would be a ridiculous marriage and likewise it doesn't add up to much of a personal relationship with God.

On Heschel. It hasn't really gotten much better than Heschel in the last fifty years. Interesting to read the Christian Cornel West on Heschel.

R. Bachman: So, according to a new Pew survey, 21% of American atheists believe in God or a universal spirit, 12% believe in heaven and 10% pray at least once a week. I don't find that hard to believe at all. It's hard to walk away from an argument, especially when, as an honest atheist, one may insist upon holding the God Idea to a higher standard.

The definition of "atheist" precludes the Pew findings. Suggest you examine survey for design problems.

"But the notion of merely walking away from the relationship without a fight is something that I think most people find impossible to withstand......Our founder Abraham stands toe to toe with God at Sodom and Gomorroh and challenges the Divine not to sweep away the good with the evil. In the midst of chaos and the preponderance of evil, Abraham stands as an exemplar of being in relationship with the values God is said to represent--holding God to a higher standard, as it were."
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How right you are Mr. Bachman, too many people that once believed in God walk away when "hardship" happens in their life. But like you, I say stay and fight the good fight of faith and in due season God will reward a person’s faithfulness to him.

If people would seek God and ask "why" or for "understanding" as Abraham did about God's method of doing things God will answer them. In fact, God called Abraham his friend and it was because of their relationship as friends God revealed his intentions to Abraham.

Hating God and turning away from him for disappointing things in life is not the answer. Is that how people would handle a personal relationship? Walk away from it just because the person disappointed them?

Where is the commitment and dedication gone to in this world with people? That is why the divorce rate is so high because people walk away from a commitment that they have no dedication to all because the person disappointed them.

What a sad state of affairs our world is in. (:>(