Rabbi Adin Steinsaltz
Founder of The Israel Institute for Talmudic Publications

Rabbi Adin Steinsaltz

The Steinsaltz Edition of the Talmud, of which 37 volumes have been published so far, has made the Talmud accessible to Hebrew speakers.

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Cults Transgress Basic Universal Beliefs

A Baltimore mother accused of joining a cult and starving her child says she was acting on her religious beliefs. What's the difference between extreme religious conviction and delusion? Between a religion and a cult?

The difference between a cult and a religion is not easy to define. While there are depraved groups that really cannot claim any right to be a religion - or anything remotely close to religion -- sometimes the distinctions we make are based only on perceptions of size and permanence.

A cult that grows and remains stable becomes a religion, even when the tenets of its belief may sound bizarre to others. However, there are some universal basic beliefs. Religions adhere to them. But when a group transgresses these basic principles, it is a cult and not a religion - meaning, a group of people who share a common delusion. For example, a fundamental universal point of belief is the supreme importance of children to their parents. When parents sacrifice their children, or kill them indirectly, there is something deeply wrong with the group. For both rational and emotional reasons, a deed like this is shatters our basic, universal belief system; a person who commits such a deed can be forgiven only in a clear case of insanity. See Deuteronomy 12:31.

By Rabbi Adin Steinsaltz  |  April 2, 2009; 9:17 PM ET
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Also a good sign someone's full of it is if they think they have to come to your door to tell you about it. :)

Posted by: Paganplace | April 7, 2009 6:04 PM
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I mean, I'm sure that will bring a theological storm of comment, but the easiest way to figure out when the lights are on but nobody's home, is to act hurt. Not hard if you generally have some pain.

Someone's a sociopath or a cultie, they're either going to not notice at all or have a very delayed, rained reaction.

Call it a 'rubber reflex hammer from the Witches.'

But you can't fake empathy. If someone distanced someone from their humanity, it shows. Many are trained in making the motions of sincerity. It's not the same. Whatever Gods you may believe in, trust you were given this capacity. Whatever else is going on.

Posted by: Paganplace | April 7, 2009 6:01 PM
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"The Watchtower will never gloat over 'the destruction of babylon the great aka false religion' becase they are part of it too."

Posted by:LisaLove1"

Well, yes, by presented affect alone, I class the JW's under 'cults,' but, Goddess, do you think we could all go in on a rental of the prophesied land and give all you apocalyptic guys the prophesied bronze spears and banners and unblemished cows and have you get it over with?

People are trying to live, here.

Posted by: Paganplace | April 7, 2009 5:47 PM
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Hi, JJ.

Speaking of cults, remember there was a time when I was saying, 'Hey, I've seen stuff like this?'

Your theological word-salad's long since gone past the point of unintelligible.

Whatever you think you're representing now, you aren't representing it by pasting this stuff.

Breathe.

No 'apocalypse' needs any more damn help from any of us.

Or you.

Breathe a little bit. Feel your scalp a bit. Feel it's solid enough. Solid enough to do for now.


You say a lot of things, here, can you say, 'I?'

You speak much fear, can you say, "I fear?"


Can you tell us what you fear?


Say what you need, just say it *once,* and to us.


Doesn't have to be long.

Better it's not. You've tried the pasting many words everywhere route already.

What would you like?

You. Not the world. You.

You're from NYC, right, JJ?

You took a name, 'In Good Faith,' well, show us some bona fides.

There a person left in there?

Speak.


Posted by: Paganplace | April 7, 2009 4:56 PM
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On The Difference between an Apocalyptic thinking/feeling "JO{K}TAN-ian" , an EBERu?, and a Pre-Apocalyptic thinking/feeling "PE{LEG}-ian", a YID or a Kosher/Hallal MAN; not like in Peeking-MAN?

Yesterday on a NYC street, as i [WE] was on a mission; 2-two Lubavitcher the Pharasee guys?, not Sedducee? stood almost in front of my direction & asked, "Are You JEWiSH?” {I felt insulted!} So, before i answered i asked them young spaced-out Lads {is IT still Halloween?} if besides reading the Chumash/Basorah,

If "Lubavitcha "Ever read ALL of Space-Ship Earths Holy Books" i.e., Judeo-BUDHiST Kangyur/Tengyurs + the HiNDUGeeta/Tripitaka + the ISLAMiC Quran/Koran + the CHRiSTIAN Bible/Masorah?" So they did not answer & asked well, "areYEaYEED?" i'said "My ABBA(DAD) & EEMA(MOM) are of JO{K}{TAN-EBERU race, We’re unlike & not like Ye PE{L}E{G-ian EBERU's michiginna race!

Posted by: INGOODFAITH | April 6, 2009 11:48 AM
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With all due respect to the comments here, I wish to share how this is proof that left to mankind's intelligence, morality cannot be determined - one set of "morality" can be criticized as well as another person's set of moral laws. All of this to say that morality can be set only by the Almighty Himself, who made the world and all the creatures in it, and all the supernal worlds as well. It is only from the Almighty's perspective and understanding of His Will that morality can be set in stone.

The role of people is to make moral choices and choose to enact the Almighty's Will. when we begin to make changes, we have entered into this gray area which has generated this whole discussion.

May we all be able to see the morality that the Almighty has set forth for every man, Torah for the Jews and the Seven Noahide Laws for the non-Jews - and may we have clarity of mind to realize that choosing to follow this moral code is the most pleasant existence for every man, woman and child.

Need a refresher course? Check out the Ten Commandments. It is a good list.

Posted by: monotheist | April 5, 2009 8:09 PM
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WATCHTOWER HEMOPHILIAC HYPOCRISY


Jehovah's Witnesses may take certain components of blood, such as hemophiliac preparations (Factor VIII and Factor IX),and have for many years.
The greatest risk of AIDS infection comes from this procedure which is allowed by the Watchtower society,so this proves that this whole entire blood ban thing is totally made up and man made and NOT from the Bible.

[[ Remember the Jehovah's Witnesses use thousands and thousands of pints of blood donated by others for their blood "FRACTIONS". ]]

Danny Haszard life-long Jehovah's Witness http://www.dannyhaszard.com

Posted by: jehovahinfo | April 5, 2009 3:18 PM
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This is interesting. Bloodless surgery is safer and cheaper that surgery that uses blood. Amazing!

More non-religious people are requesting bloodless surgery. An increasing number of hospitals are becoming bloodless hospitals - You will get bloodless surgery as standard unless you request blood.

Bloodless surgery in the news (1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXnBpYZ9YYE

Bloodless surgery in the news (2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4c7Z5wZrUg

Contaminated Blood Report
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YU0zNVslXCk

L.


Posted by: lekozza | April 5, 2009 12:03 PM
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Are Jehovah's Witnesses a cult?
[High control destructive cult]?

Who knows,but they are STILL false religion just like the rest of em.

The Watchtower will never gloat over 'the destruction of babylon the great aka false religion' becase they are part of it too.

Posted by: LisaLove1 | April 5, 2009 12:49 AM
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Imagine if it was forbidden, on WAPO (onfaith/onreligion & postglobal) to use the words "AD{IN} "{STEIN}SALT}{Z} Or "SA{LLY}" "QU{i}NN" or "DA{VID" "WA{}TERS" or " "FA{R}EED" "ZAK{A}R}IA}" or "DAV-ID" "I{}G{}NATiUS" or the word "Washing{ton}" or "PO{ST" , MOSES, JESUS etc..???

Please remove curly brackets in WAPO's Editor & hit "Submit" button. For the Word:

""SH{i}L{O}H" [PEACE BRINGER]. So
WHY would Washington Post or George Town University et al; be soo so afraid of a (biblical) word meaning, "PEACE", Freidan, PAZ, Mir, SHALOM or "SH{}{A}{L}{O}{M}", Salaam, Ahimsah, Zhingyu"?.....?.. Testing testing:

"HUE{-}MATES"
"JO{}K}{T}AN" [The UNITED Anscestors]
{WE [i] Cometh from This Father/Mother EBERu line} hence [i] WE; US? are innately evolved as "HUEMATES" not as HUMAN anymore. As Prophecy: WE [i] Removeth the "Scepter & the Rod.. from Both hand & between King DAVID's realm who are "P{E}{L}E{G"ians [The DIVIDED Ancestors]. WE Reverseth the DRUNKIN NOAH [racist] CURSETH/SINETH preposterous Story of Moses & his Jealoused Co., And So
INSTEAD of god, replaced "ITSELF" w/the knowledge of "IT" via the Holyi Cosmic "MELCHIZEDEK PEACE-BLESSING" & more "Good TiDINGS"!

Testing Testing:

"P{E}{L}E{G"
[Means the "DIVIDED" Eber/ABRAHAMICs branch/splinter, Isaac, Ishamael, Jacob, Joseph, David, Solomon, Esau, Jesus, includes Muhammad Folks, Mormons too etc.., as their Lineage/Anscestor (NOT OUR's, Never! or unlike US HUEMATE-arians of that Holyi Cosmic NEBULA awared "IT"s (G-D) Naturally Selected , aka, Chosen, "JO{}K}{T}AN"ian) EBERu race!


WOW! WHY WAPO???????????? WHO {Sect?, Cult?, Preacher, Editor, Moderator(s) , Mormon, Evangelousical? , rick Warren? Chuck Colson? etc..} is Behind This Blatant 1st Amendment Violation & Anti Public-Internet DEVILISH/EVIL Censorings???

Wow! Please WAPO & Co., stop Jealously Blocking OUR, not your, Intellectual works about the "IT" [G-D doing work & becoming what one is becoming] And then Borrow for Ye gains or Withholding such whiteboarding hard work from its genuine Authors!?

Posted by: INGOODFAITH | April 4, 2009 11:58 AM
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Jehovah's Witnesses blood transfusion confusion

Simple fact-The Bible does not prohibit Blood transfusions.If you are bleeding to death it is more dangerous to refuse a blood transfusions than to take one.
Bloodless surgeries are great if they can be elective.1/3rd of all trauma deaths are from blood loss.

Jehovah's Witnesses elders will investigate and disfellowship any Jehovah Witness who takes a blood transfusion,to say the issue is a 'personal conscience matter' is subterfuge to keep the Watchtower out of lawsuits..

Jehovah's Witnesses children die every year worldwide due to blood transfusion ban.Rank & file Jehovah's Witness are indoctrinated to be scared to death of blood
FYI
1) JW's DO USE many parts aka 'fractions' aka components of blood,so if it's 'sacred' to God why the hypocritical contradiction flip-flop?

2) They USE blood collections that are donated by Red Cross and others but don't donate back,more hypocrisy.

3) The Watchtower promotes and praises bloodless elective surgeries,this is a great advancement indeed.BUT it's no good to me if I am bleeding to death from a car crash and lose much of my blood volume and need EMERGENCY blood transfusion.

Remember the Jehovah's Witnesses use thousands and thousands of pints of blood donated by others.They use 60% of the blood volume as broken down "fractions" then go on Bible thumping rants about how dangerous and sinful blood transfusions are.

( JW do allow organ transplants which has more risk than whole blood transfusions so their arguments of disease transmission is bogus)

Know this,the reason that JW refuse blood is because of their spin on the 3000 year old Biblical old testament,modern medicine will eventually make blood donations and transfusions a thing of the past.When this technology happens it won't vindicate the Jehovah's Witnesses and all the deaths that have occurred so far.

The Watchtower's rules against blood transfusions will eventually be abolished (very gradually to reduce wrongful death lawsuit liability) even now most of the blood 'components' are allowed.

They are such hypocrites!
--
Danny Haszard http://www.dannyhaszard.com


Posted by: jehovahinfo | April 4, 2009 1:06 AM
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Rabbi Steinsaltz,

You write: "For example, a fundamental universal point of belief is the supreme importance of children to their parents."

I know that Jews are prohibited from speaking of other religions since the belief is that Hashem has a covenant with all peoples.

Nevertheless, I must question your construct of a "fundamental universal point." Let us not forget that the Christians (generically speaking) believe that the Lord sent his only begotten son to earth to be tortured to death and that He (God!) succeeded in his mission to butcher.

Posted by: Farnaz2 | April 3, 2009 11:04 PM
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Why not be really truthful, Rabbi!

Every cult is a religion and every religion is a cult.

Not so very hard to understand is it now?

Posted by: Gaby1 | April 3, 2009 7:47 PM
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This isn't a useful distinction for addressing the issue of the murderous mother. We use "cult" generally to mean smaller, newer and different religions from our own.
Newsweek is here playing the usual newsmedia game of seeking to turn this incident into a general case. And they do it because it is human nature to do so. I am doing it now.
Despite what some of your panelists argue, there really is no general case to be made that religion believes in putting God to the test in this way.
Some do things that resemble this (Jonestown, Jehovah's Witnesses and their anti-blood transfusion beliefs, Appalachian snakebite healers.)
Today some famous celebrities and health food faddists are arguing dangerously against vaccines. They fit some kind of case too.

Posted by: steveweatherbe | April 3, 2009 7:10 PM
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Again it is clear that it is indeed quite diffi-cult to define the distinctions between 'bona-fide' religions and cults, in practical terms. I do not find the distinction clearly spelled out here. I am in full agreement that "there are some universal basic beliefs", but what are they, outside of the one that Rabbi Steinsaltz offers? And I am sure that we would find that these universal beliefs are not always adhered to universally by these religions. Pedophilia is an ongoing problem for the Catholic Church, for instance, but they just managed to become the "poster child" for this insult. They are not the only religion that has a problem with child abuse or sexual deviancy. Or killing, murder, corruption, power hoarding.... Coveting thy neighbors wife, his goods...

Is it not in Deuteronomy that the Lord our God lays out the Law about what is acceptable to do to neighboring tribes when the Hebrews wanted to take that land by force. If the neighbors gave it up willingly then they are all slaves, and if they did not then they all went to the sword, women and children killed or worse, and the land razed. Along those lines, yes? The original Scorched Earth policy.

Universal basic beliefs? Shades of this religious and cultural conditioning play out today in incursions into Gaza. One bullet, two kills...

There is no doubt that huge goodness comes out of all of the established religions, but if they have to live by this definition of "universal basic beliefs" then they are all, at varying times that are not historical, cults.

Posted by: justillthen | April 3, 2009 1:39 PM
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"The difference between a cult and a religion is not easy to define."

You said a mouthful there!

"...a fundamental universal point of belief is the supreme importance of children to their parents."

There is nothing in this case to indicate that this woman held a different view. She was told that her child was possessed by demons and that withholding food and water was the way to drive them out. She didn't expect his death. And when he died, she expected resurrection - still does!

Please remember that the patriarch of your religion, Christianity, and Muslimism, was prepared to sacrifice his son to God. Note, too, that there is a great deal of baby-killing in the O.T./Tanakh - at God's direction.

Posted by: Pamsm | April 3, 2009 1:30 PM
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