An Unending Attempt to Reach More

Believe “IT”

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You who call yourself a christian.

Review your ways. Listening to the discussions by these Talmudic Rabbi's you do greatly error (thereby eating the yeast filled bread that they spew).

They mix light and darkness. They hate Jesus Christ and yet some of you propose to be Christians and you mock at me?!

IF YOU ARE ASHAMED OF JESUS CHRIST HE WILL BE ASHAMED OF YOU!

Yes, I realize the Rabbi CAN NOT HELP IT! HE IS BLIND AND DEAF as JESUS SAID! AND A VIPER TOO BOOT MORE THEN LIKELY AS JOHN MAY HAVE SECOND!!!

Those who hate Jesus Christ are in for a big suprise when death knocks on their doors. We shall all meet face to face with God, and those who Love and look forward to see Jesus Christ will never be ashamed.

As for you Athiest', were is your hope? In what you can grasp in your fleshy hands. You have no other hope then what this life offers, therefore your 'spiritual' advice is completely laughable.

I think the connotations of 'satisfaction' are somewhat different from say, 'contentment' or even such as 'serenity,' as we see in so many of these threads: people from many traditions speak of being content to be on the path, but never 'satisfied' in terms of, I think, having come into some form of *statis.*

One can be at peace while in quite vigorous motion. :)

Viejita,

Thanks for the clarification.

Regards.

Norrie
You seem to be talking about the difference between constant striving -- pushing forward for the sake of the motion itself -- and the increasing serenity of enlightenment. It may be some kind of intellectual materialism, but as a Christian with Old Testament leanings I'm completely sympathetic with the Steinsaltz's version, like the song says, the loving of the game.
Just for the record, I know who you are. I think the Christianity comments were directed at Brad Burge and Peacetroll.

Leo, Thanks for your post.

Brad B., Viejita D.O., Miguel, et al.

I am not a Christian. I'm an agnostic with Buddhist sympathies.

All I was saying was that Rabbi Steinsaltz's views of contentment and satisfaction are not mine.

Lighten up, guys. I'm entirely aware that this question has nothing to do with Christianity, nor with Judaism for that matter - it's about contentment and satisfaction. I used the NT quotations because they expressed my feelings. Then I made a tongue-in-cheek "apology" for offering NT passages to a rabbi.

I would note that most Buddhists would consider a constant striving, be it for money or knowledge, to be a sign of an agitated and disordered mind which is suffering and blocked on its path to enlightenment.

I believe that calm and equanimity are spritual states superior to an endless striving like that experienced by a mouse on a treadmill.

I have the greatest admiration for Rabbi Steinsaltz; his translations and commentaries have had an immense impact, making Jewish religious knowledge available to an audience that had much more limited access before his work. And he is right; in Talmudic studies as in many other areas of knowledge, the more you know, the more questions you have and the more compelling the search.

But as to "Are you satisfied with your life?", recall that life is a journey and not a destination. Rabbi Steinsaltz has not, and will not, arrive at the end of his task, and the fact that it is a worthwhile and fulfilling task and one that helps many people should make the -journey- satisfying.

And that is how I feel about my own life. I have not had the impact in one area that Rabbi Steinsaltz has had, but there is satisfaction in working in multiple areas. I'm a Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, very active locally in Jewish-Muslim relations, and about to leave on a trip to talk with pro-peace organizations in Palestine and Israel - building peace is not a task I expect to have much impact on, but can perhaps do a little bit.

As the Talmud says, the work is not ours to finish, but neither are we free to take no part in it.

A vote for Norrie; a happy man is one who is content with what he or she has. If the good rabbi is dissatisfied with his knowledge, he has worded his quest very poorly. Knowledge is itself not very useful...but understanding, that is something quite different. The end of ignorance of the truth is the worthy goal!

"If one decides that he has achieved something worthwhile, something he can remain with, it is an indication of some kind of failure or weakness of character, because the drive to go further and reach higher should always be there. The struggle should never subside."

I have to disagree with that statement, especially as it relates to materialistic things. One can set certain goals, and when one achieves them one can be satisfied. You do not always need more or want more.

When I was young I set my goals, some of which I have not achieved, some of which I have achieved, and some of which I have surpassed. I am now at a stage in my life, where I am comfortable and see absolutely no need to struggle any longer. I would not say that it makes me a failure or a week character.

Are there still things in life I would like to do? Undoubtably! Travel, perhaps learn a new language, live long enough to enjoy at least a few years after I am able to retire. Will I be less content if I don't get to do those things? No! Because ultimately those are trivial items when compared with the larger picture.

....believes that her's is the only way....

Looks like Peacetroll is not so Christian after all. Or is she just a very closed-minded fundamentalist who believes there her's is the only way to heaven?

Peacetroll:

I second Andrea's comment. Plus, even though I am a lifelong atheist, I still learn from the followers of Christ along with many others. You might wish to consider an alternate approach to life.

Peacetroll:

what happened to the open-mindedness that you Christians always profess to? Not living up to it there buddy. Just cause the guy is Jewish you will pay him no heed?

FORSHAME.......

And may I remind you that Jesus was Jewish.....oh look at that. A jew whose teachings you follow. OMG! Burn me at the stake!

Peacetroll,

Or, perhaps you should stear clear of this particular discussion. We are not all followers of Christ, and may find what the Rabbi has to say of interest and worth.

This Talmud Rabbi should go home.

He got nothing to teach a follower of Christ.

Beware of the Leven of the Pharisee's.

Let's not be too harsh on the Rabbi he is simply saying in layman's terms what the philosopher Hegel observed many years ago - "human consciousness is always dissatisfied". But St. Augustine said it best - our hearts are restless until they rest in Thee (The Confessions)

Rabbi -- That was a very interesting essay, but I'm not entirely satisfied. When can we expect your book on the subject?

Norrie;
When it's about qualities, there's never an ending to this; you can't reach a point where you can't improve yourself. whether spiritually, economically or academically.
spiritually is obvoius
economically, it's social movilization, work hard ethics.
academically it's enlightment, you can never know enough.

BTW that was me just now.

Norrie
Based on his profession and writings, I would venture that Rabbi Steinsaltz is referring to the desire for more knowledge and understanding, rather than more money, fame or material success. What I got from this column was the drive for perfection or enlightment, which many traditions agree is not to be attained before death. The point is that we shouldn't expect to feel we're at the summit until we are basically finished climbing.
Brad
You might feel more at home on the Cal Thomas or Chuck Colson threads. This one is not about Jesus.

Dear Norrie Hoyt,

You do not understand Steinsaltz's position because it is based on Kabbalah as the only path to g-d, rather than Jesus Christ as the only true path to God.

Brad L. Burge

Rabbi Steinsaltz,

I'm afraid I have a profound disagreement with you.

Your essay could well have been written by a successful Wall Street broker: MORE, MORE, MORE! WHAT I HAVE IS NEVER ENOUGH!

That's a recipe for perpetual frustration and internal discord. Many religious and philosophical systems teach the exact opposite of your view: acceptance and contentment are desirable conditions to attain.

There's a saying with many variations: "A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can do without" [or, "leave alone"]. It's been attributed to Thoreau, Sophocles, Jefferson, and probably to others as well.

I'm on their side and in their camp, and strive to attain acceptance and contentment.

"Consider the lillies of the field: they toil not, neither do they spin, ...etc."

"They also serve who only stand and wait."

Sorry for the Christian testament quotes.

I wish you the very best.

Dear Rabbi,

How is the development of the Sanhedrin going?

How about the planning of the world conference on the Temple Mount in October? Do you think Iran will attend?

http://jesusraptureme.blogspot.com/2007/05/sanhedrins-world-peace-initiative.html

Shalom,
Brad L. Burge