All Comments (56)

Excellent article by Imam Pamela.

Ibrahim Mahfouz made some good points.
Apart from that almost the entire thread is gibberish.

Levent has obviously got a serious mental illness like schizophrenia or a drug problem or both.

Take your meds and be well!

Realist

Levent, Levent, Levent,

The stench of your religion oozes and bubbles from your gibberish which nobody reads!!!!!

Levent, Levent, Levent,

The stench of your religion oozes and bubbles from your gibberish which nobody reads!!!!!

Levent, Levent, Levent,

The stench of your religion oozes and bubbles from your gibberish which nobody reads!!!!!

at least levent considers-
from wound to wind and sound to sind-

heres an old poem for you levent- (i wrote it possibly 15 years ago)

when dawn breaks hear,
the muezzin's prayer call,
it draws me there
the east,the earth,the sind
what love i have
that is ALLAH, my all
and calls to me
on air,in breath,the wind

but now the main article is Bible and Languages.

Vatican and Israel are unaccompanied and they are overloaded with Scriptural in stead of their personal paths, they anchor Scriptural.

but the languages are vital and we must not fall unaware of any bit of treasure in languages and Scriptures. we must protect the magnitude in every word and letter.

did Israel and Vatican have peace in these two generations on Earth? no?

Levent, Levent, Levent,

The stench of your religion oozes and bubbles from your gibberish which nobody reads!!!!!

Oh "Reality Challenged" and Obfuscating Jihadist,

If there is a god, it would not have some hallucinating, warmongering, greed and lust driven, con-man, illiterate Arab as its messenger.

Hello Jakob:)

There is no God but God
And Muhammad is Its Messenger

--------------------------------------------------

Hello Levent Alkan:)

Some of your posts are poetical-philosophical-metaphysical-analogical-spiritual:

"transliterations of verses are so much different from right to left."

"are you able to take your cousin on your shoulder while leading a prayer in a mosque?"

"to be holy, with godspeed, in high values and virtues in service."

Only a religious sort trained in deciphering the langauge of the holy books can understand you, no?

Is your posts a test or a challenge on patience and comprehension? :)

There is no Allah and Mohamed was deluded.
There is no Allah and Mohamed was deluded.
There is no Allah and Mohamed was deluded.
Ain't THAT the TRUTH? Ain't that the TRUTH!

Levent, Levent, Levent,

The stench of your religion oozes and bubbles from your gibberish!!!!!

LEVENT ALKAN,

Why dont you get up little late?

CCNL, where are you? how is your arm?

see you later folks, i wake up at 5 AM every morning, i wash up with the invitation.

i love mornings. i love stars in the sky. i love trees and birds. i walk on the parks and roads. the sun rises and people wend.

Pamela Taylor

duality is du-ality, either two sides are alight or the other part of the slippers have dropped from the roof.

did you see? no?

so here is the main point

Many have criticized America's insistent individualism as narcissistic and egotistical. At its worst, American individualism can indeed be self-centered and materialistic. But at its best, American individualism allows for the fullest and most authentic expressions of personal identity.

In my own life, this glorification of individual expression has been incredibly empowering. Not only did I feel safe some twenty years ago in embracing a religion which is a minority religion in this country, but I continue to enjoy the freedom and security to practice this faith in profound and genuine reflection of my own understanding of it.

applied especially to attack to cease maturity, peace, unity of people and public, especially with jealousy, disrespect, humiliation and pride. this is what it was then in the land of Quran.

disbeliever is not a word applicable amongst religions and faiths of maturity.

disbeliever is who rejects Abraham, Noah and others after Adam, but accepts corporal objects and spell,

PAmela Taylor,

i cannot write Ms Taylor because flag of Multiple Sklerosis is up with your name. as far as i know multiple sklerosis is where flesh eat nerves, that is Mother kills Father, Wife stops Husband.

in Portugal, there are plenty of different overseas fruits for table. are you able to take your cousin on your shoulder while leading a prayer in a mosque?

as far as i know, Russia applies electromagnetics to cease religions in people, not with schism but providing them with corporal energy.

when shall Russia and USA come to unite? for when You two operate in a country where zoroastorians and nestorians are together, and also magnetics and naturals, it really is hard.

Williams Bush, President of USA

does tobacco provide connection, unity and health of mind? has electromagnetics applied to seperate catatonic connectionless lobs in the brain in "religious countries" work with schism in phrene, particularly in countries with zoroastorian and monophysitism?

and does Lily Zyprexa to zyp later this schism in the Rex and Rexa work, is this marriage? Yoga and Stereograms work properly good.

i think why (Granddaughter of Churchill, from Family of World Trade Center) LAdy Diana and Prince Charles had married has revealed slightly more.

does King of Greece and Denmark, Husband of Queen of United Kingdom smoke? why does Daughter of President of USA marry with Son of Tobacco?

then leave Quran aside and do not open the book and do not read the translations yet.

PAmela Taylor, Quran is a "from right to left" book, not only in grammer but also in brain too.

if you have not practised yoga to unity,
if you havent attained marriage of soul and body,

if you havent accomplished connection of right lob and left lob of brain,

if you havent studied "from right to left"

then leave Quran aside and do not open the book and read the translations yet.

transliterations of verses are so much different from right to left.

and do you know why Pamela Taylor is busy with Islam?

do You know why Prince Charles had married with LAdy Diana, CCNL?

Levent, Levent, Levent,

I am sure Ataturk is quite pleased.

CCNL

do you like the way you write? who is pleased with your words?

Levent, Levent, Levent,

Your hero Ataturk would not be pleased with your conduct and your gibberish.

Levent, Levent, Levent,

Your hero Ataturk would not be pleased with your conduct and your gibberish.

to be speedy, fast and quick :

to be holy, with godsped, in high values and virtues in service.

how many beard do i know?

to shave : to take illegal money for a service
beard : to fast to be hunger with a holy purpose

this morning there was a news from EAstern Europe or Russian Hospitals about tubercilosis increased and virus overcome immune system and drugs, new medication needed.

does Michael Otterson, an author here from Church of LAtter Day Saints, teach his children with Otter Traditions? no? this is it.

Williams Bush

stop electromagnetics and Civil War cases. stop junk food of sugar and flavour. teach governments and publics in peace. stop any kind of murder.

last night there was a Lemon shown to my brain and i was afraid. lemon is LE FAmily, this is from my name Levent Alkan. but this is just a name i use here in Turkey. do not work with my name much.

Russia and USA,

how are United Kingdom and Vatican? is NATO different than You two? low physical presence is different than high physical presence. many times i drop low. or i was dropped while i tried to reach to my family. i could do this much.

Russia and USA

do not make experiments on people here. they dont remember much of their roots and they dont speak of their nights and days and likes and dislikes.

and you have your own knowledge and database. Williams Bush, who did consider and address as if i was a rat in 2002 before i drank suicide after the Military General Staff Affair?

i was with Kryon, Crimson Circle, HAwaii, St Germain, www.walla.com, nibiruans. who did steal my data and who did put me into debt? Russians?

how little you know about people and how low are your aveluations. did you ask each one what they lived in their childhood? i worked at kidsgarden. parents do not care the firends of children and take them to hospital or spellers!

i intend to keep track of what children live night and day. would you help me, Russia and USA?

i dont like rain much here, it hurts this skin. it is cold or drops like bullets. and i dont like being with wet clothes. i dont like hot too.

these are not from texts, i know and live day and night from the first year. i find texts later on internet or published come to me.

is here a "land" country? i learned how to be on my belly here. intersting, i learned how to breath here in air.

9. i am zoologist from Sirius. i love birds cats and dogs, they come and we talk.
10. one time a violet big jellyfish came and i caressed her. then swam around and came again. and we caressed eachother. i love water.
11. i can be in water any time. Sirius B Dolphins!

lets see one more time

1. i came to earth with water project to be able to be in water with generating hydrogen and oxygen from water.
2. i live in boron region and individuals in family are married to boron and aghartha regions.
3. boron is also in St Germain region
4. i am related with Tibet Shamballa Himalaya
5. i was in acapella chorus and music
6. i worked on genetics and literature
7. i sang in Side Antalya in water. it is my loveliest life.
8. i am with Goddess and i am from my father too. i hear mother, i see father.

Williams Bush have asked bearded soldiers in Turkish Army in Northern Iraq to be taken back.

this is in Washington Post but i could not find the article. excuse me PAmela Taylor, related messages under Claire Hoffman have been deleted.

Conversations with the Goddess
http://books.google.com.tr/books?id=qxd2Z9CvQaAC&pg=PP8&lpg=PP8&dq=armageddon+aghartha&source=web&ots=ucyErSRCZx&sig=O2ffLHiW_OfK7PUykcYfC7sEoJo&hl=tr#PPP8,M1

bearded soldiers

matriarchy, patriarchy, lemuria, atlanta, Russia, Agartha, Shamballa, Armageddon, mt shasta

physically, my mother is 0 Rh - and mine is 0 Rh +

we three brothers didnt change blood after birth from other mother. shall i go to Embassy of Russia or USA or Britain?

Armenians, Israelians, Thymuse gland, HAnukah, flax seeds, Vatican, Zoroastorianism, Nestorianism, France, Catholic Armenians, Orthodox Armenians, Nicaea, St Nicholas, Hannibal, Russians, boron mineral, processors, superconductors, nuclear tests in Texas Nevada, Bursa, Uludag, boron mineral, Horse of Alchemy,

St Petersburg, Russia, Double-Head Eagle, boron mineral, radioactivity collector, Boron mineral emanates hydrogen, in electromagnetics hydrogen atoms align as in Magnetic Resonance Imaging.

i was not able to be in a crowded place, cinema or bus and this is the reason why i applied for therapy in 1993 or 1992 in Ankara. i dont have records for exact dates. 50 ACER 386 SX computers were purchased for the laboratory of computer science and engineering department in 1992 or 93.

i must ask to see my cirriculum vitae in military and government.

to Government of USA

i graduated from high school with high talents and grades in June 1991

in September 1991 i was in Ankara, Temple of Solomon and Slavery of Hittitians

i was not able to be in a crowded place, cinema or bus and this is the reason why i applied for therapy

in the last year of high school in philosophy-logic-psychology class, i had a project to cease schzophrenia and the rest is my military service and job

i found Civil War, Indianapolis, Lafayette, Lilly, Second World War, Penicilin, Zyprexa, Olanzapin,
Nokia, Symbian OS, Texas Instruments, Zyp-Rexa, zyp-mary, Schism, phrene, Phi-Rene, electromagnetics, magnetics, magnetic flux, radioactivity, Chernobyl, 1987, Nichola Tesla, mobile phones, HAARP, global warming, Romanov, Soviets, Lenin, VAtican, Limit, Leibniz, differential equations, religions, TAtars, Turkish, English, Celts, Scottish, Denmark, Israel, Ahmet, Christ, Ottomans, Crusaders,
Portugal, Holland, Ephesus, Excalibur, Pakistan, Erasmus, Armageddon, Yom Kippur, Churchill, Lady Diana, Adana, certification of equipments for CERN Experiment in Cukurova University, Civil War, Slavery, St Paul,

Victoria, Victoria, Victoria,

Flaws in your "revert" are even more egregious than those in your former life.

Ms. Taylor:
You quote the following four verses to prove that
there is a “religious freedom” in Islam.

“2:256 There is no compulsion in religion.
3:20 (...) And if they surrender themselves unto Him, they are on the right path; but if they turn away - behold, your duty is no more than to deliver the message: for God sees all that is in the hearts of His creatures.
18:29 Say: "It (the Qur'an) is the truth from your Lord: And let whoever wishes believe and whoever wishes disbelieve.
10: 99 "If your Lord had willed, all the people on the earth would have believed. Do you think you can force people to be believers?"

Below are many more Quran verses that are inconsistent with the above ones.

" Qur'an:9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."
Qur'an:9:88 "The Messenger and those who believe with him, strive hard and fight with
their wealth and lives in Allah's Cause
Qur'an:9:112 "The Believers fight in Allah's Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed."
Qur'an:9:29 "Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission."
Ishaq:325 "Muslims, fight in Allah's Cause. Stand firm and you will prosper. Help the Prophet, obey him, give him your allegiance, and your religion will be victorious.
Qur'an:8:39 "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah."
Qur'an:8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."
Ishaq:324 "He said, 'Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals.'"
Qur'an:9:14 "Fight them and Allah will punish them by your hands, lay them low, and cover them with shame. He will help you over them."
Ishaq:300 "I am fighting in Allah's service. This is piety and a good deed. In Allah's war I do not fear as others should. For this fighting is righteous, true, and good."
Ishaq:587 "Our onslaught will not be a weak faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn to Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violently before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight until our religion is established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace."

There is still lot more in the following link:
http://www.prophetofdoom.net/quotes1.html

All this leads to my earlier thesis of a month ago that the Quran is like a superstore; you can find in it whatever you like to find. There is a verse in Quran that says "if the Quran has inconsistencies it could not be from Allah”(Quran 4:82). I agree. Well it has inconsistencies and outright contradictions therefore it could not be from Allah and so we should not use it to prove anything. We therefore judge Islam by how it is practiced. How it is practiced is based on the interpretation of the leaders of the different schools of Islamic thought who know more about the gist of Mohammad's message. Tell that freedom of religion in Islam to those so-called apostates who are continually been persecuted and even killed, and please don‘t blame that on their culture. Cherry picking from the Quran and saying Allah said this or Allah said that to prove a point should be eliminated from rational discourse because then we will be working according to the principle (GI = GO) i.e. Garbage in leads to garbage out.

eeeee Haaaaa!

Amazing how Costumed!

imam taylor's article encapsulates the emphasis on individual responsibilty in islam, which is what held the greatest appeal for me as a revert, and my satisfaction with islam.

peace

While diversity is a strength in a democratic society it can also become a serious problem in many cases. Thus in almost all the countries we are experiencing inter-religious conflict to a lesser or greater degree. Those who promote conflict in the name of religion do so by quoting scripture and thus they try to hold religious scripture responsible for the conflict. Muslims hold non-Muslims as kafirs, Christians think all non-Christians are pagans and doomed to hell or some Hindus hold Muslims and other non-Muslims as malechhas (i.e. impure).

We would like to throw light here in this article on how Qur'an views other religions or those who possess no scriptures. Does Qur'an reject other religions? And who is kafir? How do we define it? These are important questions and must be satisfactorily answered. Should one be tolerant or intolerant? Should one tolerate or respect other religions or reject them as false?

http://www.csss-isla.com/IIS/archive/archive.php?article=2006/january.htm

There was the case of the fellow who took off all his clothes and threw himself into a bed of cactus where he rolled around and around. Astonished onlookers rescued him as quickly as they could and took him to the doctor.

"What prompted you to do that" the doctor inquired as he painstakenly removed the thorn from his tortured body. The man replied, "seemed like a good idea at the time."

Miss Pamela did the same kind of thing when she embraced Islam. One can only wonder how long before she realizes, "seemed like a good idea at the time" brings nothing but pricks into one's already miserable life.

TO PAMELA TAYLOR:

I would like to make a few comments concerning your post.

You wrote, "The Qur'an is so clear -- religion and morality are absolutely personal issues:", first, why does sharia law try to cram their views down other people's throats? second, religion is a set of rules and regulations, faith is something that should spring up from inside, third, if it is only personal, then that can very easily turn into a very self-centered, holier than thou attitude, we are all Children of God, God is OUR FATHER, that makes us all brothers and sisters, but it should be how we treat others not telling others or forcing others how they should live, that is what laws, secular laws you could say, are about.

You also wrote, "6:164 (...) Each soul earns only on its own account, nor doth any laden bear another's load.", this is so against what Jesus taught and the koran calls Jesus a prophet, how can it be that what He taught is so twisted and yet the koran calls Jesus a prophet?

The quote in the above sentence if you really read it, is so self-centered and non-caring, if God gave us each other, shouldn't we help to bear each other's load?

You also wrote, "73:20 (...) Whatever good deed you may offer up in your own behalf, you shall truly find it with God -", has it ever occured to you that doing the right thing is just the right thing to do, rather than trying to get 'brownie points', so to speak, with god, it also sounds rather selfish, 'in your own behalf', doesn't it?

You also wrote, "I continue to enjoy the freedom and security to practice this faith in profound and genuine reflection of my own understanding of it.", seems like you should also thank God that you live in America because if you lived in a lot of places, including some islamic countries you wouldn't be able to "practice this faith in profound and genuine reflection of my own understanding of it" would you?

The True, Living, Triune, Triumphant God is a searcher of hearts and minds, not of religious affiliations or lack thereof and He is also a Being of Pure Love and one day all will know and be glad that He has a Plan and has had His Plan since before creation and that His Plan is for ALL OF HUMANITY to be with Him in His Kingdom, the new heavens and the new earth.

By the way, God is not a He, a She or an It but is, as I said, a Being of Pure Love even tho God-Incarnate was a Man, a Jewish Man, Jesus of Nazareth, I use the pronoun He because pronouns come in handy.

Take care, be ready, see you and the rest of humanity in the Kingdom.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Oh, "Reality Challenged" and Obfuscating Jihadist,

And the simple and obvious solution is to have Muslims whether states or individuals come to grips with the flaws and superstitions of Islam that cause so much tension and "theological stench". You know the flaws well.

Assalamu Alaikum
Imam Pamela Taylor,

Thank you for your essay.

The number of Americans switching religious affiliations as found in the Pew survey makes for an interesting read.

You stated : “It is a sad testament to how far Islamic ideals of religious freedom and personal responsibility have been pushed aside in favor of social conformity and normative religion.”

A few flippant tips in recognising who impedes Islamic freedom for Muslims in favour of social conformity and normative in Muslims countries:

- there is a state appointed Grand Mufti and muftis (to issue fatwas which are like the United Nations General Assembly’s resolutions – religious moral and ethical statements which Muslims may or do not comply with at the personal level)

- imams are in the pay of state and are given texts by state set up religious department for approved sermons after Friday prayers (to ensure imams don’t talk of politics and critisise the government)

- states deciding which school of though is acceptable and basis for Shariah (the Maliki, Hambali, Shafie, Hanafi for Sunnis, and Jafari for Shiites)

- there is a national Shariah Advisory Council to decide what is Islamic or otherwise (not so bad for standardisation of Shariah compliance activities such as halal certification or Islamic finance but really slow in revising/updating or doing away aspects of Shariah jurisprudence that has no contemporary relevance and already taken care of in civil courts)

- the state deciding what is Islamic and anti-Islamic statements and materials by charging in court, banning books etc (Muslims from the radicals/extremists to progressives are regarded as threats to Islam and Muslims, but more often to the state)

- groups pressuring states to persecute those who raised questions on Islam and Shariah and state yielding for expediency (usually the fervorous Muslim conservatives who are the cousins of the Christian fundamentalists)

As more and more non-Arab Muslims have access to translations of the Qur’an in their mother tongues, they are increasingly asking more questions to the ulema and on what the ulema said on the Right Path. It is a good sign that lay Muslims are more into the Qur’an rather than Hadiths on the fundamentals of Islam and on the Right Path.

By the way, I have never heard an Indonesian and Malaysian asking their fellow citizens how they can be animists/polytheists Hindus, Buddhists, Christians and Indonesian or Malaysian at the same time even in the heat of arguing over rights on race and religion.

It is odd that Americans should ask as to how you can be American and Muslim. A Muslim who truly knows his/her faith is close in beliefs and ideals with many of America’s founding fathers who forged the American Constitution.

I have some Americans friend laugh when I said The US is the model Islamic state. They were thinking of the Shariah and not an ideal temporal state and leadership as stated in Suras of the Qur'an, among others, the governance to be just and fair and impartial to all, to foster a compassionate and humanitarian society, the leaders to selected by consensus from the best among us, and government is to be by public consent. Rule by theocracy is an abomination never mentioned in the Qur'an or even Hadiths.

Back to this topic, it would seem that for a casual observer, the myriad churches and denominations, some 2,000 in the US by one estimate, makes religion/denomination/church shopping and hopping possible for anyone for any given personal reasons.

Looking inwards and in the Muslim world, Muslims don’t actually do so between say, between Sunni or Shiite Islam, or even to say one is a Sunni or Shiite. One simply say one is a Muslim. Even some former Muslims are calling calling themselves Muslims for reasons both convulated and practical.

At a personal level, if Muslims don’t agree with the sermons of their neighbourhood mosque on his take on Islam, we would simply go to another mosque whose imam speaks to us spiritually. Much better and freer as all Muslims regard the only established “church” headquarters for all Muslims is the Qur’an, and the dogma/creed is the Five Pillars.

A Muslim would tend to think that it is better that there is no official “church” headquarters and myriad denominations in Islam to burden Muslims with collections that goes for the operational cost and upkeep of “church” hierarchies and headquarters, instead of just donations for humanitarian assistance and there is no such phenomena as denomination hopping within Islam for there is not many denominations to begin with.

But, as you know, Islam is not just for individual pursuit of the Right Path, but urges group action for collective well-being. So, we have faith-related Muslim organisations instead, such as the Muslim Brotherhood, Nadhatul Ulama, Jemaat Al Islamiyah, Sisters in Islam, ABIM, Muhammadiyah.

These are the activist “denominations” of Islam which Muslims chose to join after considering these organisations' interpretations of Islam and their related activities personally align with our own.

This is a long way from the Muslim business and trade guilds of yore who collectively act to donate for public hospitals, madrassas, fountains, food and clothing for the needy etc. A long way from just focussing on humanitarian activities as current Muslim groups are also very politically active on issues and acts as pressure groups.

In Muslims countries, it is not so much lay Muslims who are saying any Muslim can’t join any Muslim or non-Muslim organisations, but more often then not, states branding some organisations as “threats” to Islam, or threats to “public order and well-being” (meaning threats to governments).

Each and every Muslim is really the one member of his/her sole "denomination" and his/her "church" headquarters is within him/her as he/she need no one to intercede between him/her and God. Whatever he/she do is freely done, including joining Muslim and non-Muslim organisations that appeals to him or her the most.

Many Muslim states decide which interpretation of Islam is the "right" and "acceptable one" (to them actually) and make Muslims in their countries comply with the interpretation though state controlled Shariah courts and religious departments. It would seem that some Muslim states are more fearful of ijtihad than some of their ulema and lay Muslims. It is a tragedy and unacceptable that some Muslim states treat Muslims as infants and imbeciles.

Salaam
“J”

Pamela,

Thanks for this. I just read Ayaan Hirsi Ali's OnFaith contribution, detailing the five types of Muslims. After reading that narrow portrait of such a large and diverse community, I'm happy that your piece recognizes that there are as many types of Muslims as there are Muslim individuals!