AssalaamAlaikum (Peace be upon you) dear shaykh (teacher).

Thank you for sharing this and helping others understand what they did not before.

thanks :)

Qur'an 9:5 "When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, beleaguer them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

And the Qur'an , saying peaceful Muslims are hypocrites, destined for hell. They are "the worst of creatures," "the most vile of animals." (Qur'an surahs 3 and 33.)

I have several questions:

1. What about the Hadith and its views of women?

The majority of the population of hell is female. Also, nobody is more deficient in intelligence and religion than a woman.
(Burkhari, vol. I, no. 28; Burkhari, vol. I, no. 301; Burkahari, vol. I, no. 161)

1A. Do you consider that Hadith to be as valid as the Quran?

2. I understsand that Islam allows for many types of jihad (as in submission and searching for the will of Allah). What is the highest jihad?

3. Is it true that the highest jihad is militant in orientation and that the highest jihad is the most certain guarantee of life in Paradise?

4. Could you explain the concept of abrogation of verses?

5. As I understand abrogation of verses, it means that Sura 9 is the final revelation to Muhammad.

6. Would you mind addressing how the Medinan verses replace the peaceful Meccan verses? At least, so I've heard.

Thank you in advance for considering my questions.

Apologies. Sorry for the double post.

Allah’s Apostle said, “The (Final) Hour (last human battle on Earth) will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. “O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him.”

Muhammad’s own Words

“When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action…Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them…If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya [the tax on non-Muslims specified in Qur’an 9:29]. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah’s help and fight them” (Sahih Muslim 4294).

It is so refreshing to see a leading Muslim jurist speak so intelligently about Islam. He represents classical Sharia training and at the same time up to speed with the needs of the modern world. Perhaps he should be the new Mid-East peace envoy.

Thank you Sheikh Gomaa. It is so refreshing to hear someone of your standing speak so clearly about these issues. Finally a Muslim speaking out against senseless violence in the name of religion!

ATTENTION ((((( Osama Bin Laden Is DEAD! )))))))) He died by Opium Drug Overdose, back in Mid JUNE in some non disclosed location.

Why is it that every time someone posts up a verse from the Qur'an it talks about killing and fighting?

Why is this such a forceful religion?

We shouldn't be dealing with these problems in 2007. It's very sad.

Scott:

If people constantly quoted the same two or three verses of the Bible taken out of context you would have the same reaction to Christianity. If you read the Quran you will find that every verse that talks about violence is balanced with miriad verses talking about peace and mercy. This is something that exists in pretty much all of the major world religions and it can be hard to understand from the outside. That is why having someone like Sheikh Gomaa discuss this is so important.

This mofti is not popular within the egyptian society. most egyptians do not go by his opinions because he is employed through the government. independent scholars may be more accepted in the eyes of the muslim community. Also he is sufi and has weird beleifs about certain sufi practises and mysterious teachings. the initial main hadith he quotes about jihad is classified as weak by hadith scholars.

Brother Tarek,

It's strange that you say he isn't popular. That's not the impression I get here. I suppose it's just a matter of who one talks to.

Shaykh Ali was one of those independent scholars before being appointed mufti. Has he changed any of opinions concerning the government since being appointed mufti, and has he issued any fatawa which indicate that he cows to the government?

While it is true that the first hadith is judged weak by some hadith scholars, while others disagreed. See .

Other than impugning his character, is there anything really wrong with what he wrote?

Looks like the software doesn't like URLs. Try tinyurl DOT com SLASH 2dh9uj for documentation of the hadith.

MEL

As far as my understanding of Quran by reading translation, it never occured to me that it speaks about killing innocent non-muslims anywhere in the Quran.

Attention Malik:

Dear brother, you quoted verse 9:5 but avoided the previous one, i.e. 9:4 and next verse 9:6. As I understand, you probably did not read that verse or intentionally avoided to quote that which reads as:

9:4 (But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for Allah loveth the righteous.

9:5 But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.´

9:6 If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah. and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.

Now tell me what is wrong with you? Read verse 9:6 which I have quoted here. Do you undertstand it as if it is asking muslims to kill every pagans?

As far as the western people mindset, they think their life is more precious (particularly of the rich) than one living in a poor country, whether be it a muslim country or non-muslim. This kind of mentality are sure to anger some and the reaction will be violent. I am cnfident, that if western people stop bullying others, or rich stop oppressing poor and downtroden, there will be not a single violent act. I can assure you that. So if we really want to live peacefully, we must stop oprression and learn to honor human being as a whole, irrespective of their status in society (rich, poor, educated, uneducated, black, white). Try to establish that and see how peaceful everyone will be. If we overlook our own faults and find that in others, that would not do justice to us and to others. Rather that would make some people violent, whether he is muslim, non-muslim or atheist.

I agree with Mufti Gomaa's post and I think that it is very important that someone of his stature make comments like these. He may be employed by the Egyptian government, but many of his fatwas have proven that he sets his own course.

I have seen him on television a number of times denouncing police torture and calling for increased jail time for officers who violate the rights of civilians. That doesn't sound like a government stooge to me. Mufti Gomaa mentioned in his post that speaking truth to those in power is a form of jihad, and I think this is something that he has been doing.

No matter what anybody says Mufti Gomaa speaks for a very large segment of Egyptian society who look to him for guidance in their religion. I'm glad that people in the West are getting a chance to hear a legitimate voice on Islam.

why blame islam for everything the talmud or the jewish holy book of law in the sanhedrins 55a considers all non jews to be subhumans or gentile referred as cutheans or heatheans and it s ok to shed their blood for the benefit of jews and ok to lie refer book of babkemma book of sanhedrins there are two types of the talmud and both consider it ok to treat nonjews as subhumans and jews having more right over them and jews hsould not be punishable for the killing of non jews because they have designated themselves as the chosen people of god Islam does not teach any kind of violence to innocent beings whether it is jew christian or hindu unless their religion their land or their property and life are threatened even in that case the quran asks us to fight only the ones engaged in warfare and not kill the ones who are not involved or who are away suicde is haram in islam . the most number of killing s in human history as everyone is aware and the most number of wars have been conducted by the crusaders christians until the present time which incldes holocaust of jews and killing millions of Iraqis in last four years and blaming a network which does not even exist .these blame game operatiosn are the handiwork of Islam's and god's enemies and people who do not believ in god have no value for his creation either and the first thing we need to have to call ourslves a muslim is to believ in allah and love him becaue he is the creator for all humans muslims and nonmuslims so if we hurt his creation unjustly we are hurting him and inviting his wrath and muslims believe in the day of judgement and beleive that every soul is answerable to god the moment it leaves the world therefore when one has fear of punishment he would not dare to do anything wrong and most fundamentalist muslim have fear of god. wheras in christian scriptures it says jesus died for thier sins there fore they are already assuming they are forgiven . so if one holds such beleifs it is but natural for one to cross any borders to do what he or she likes which includes killing unjustly lying, cheating,homosexualty, child molestation . if god had made certain people to be favored over others than this world would be aheaven for them in every way but it is not it is common sense but some politicians who want to defame Islam fail to realise that .and muslim have taken the blame for the false flag operations conducted by their enemies. what allah wants is to establish social justice in the world where the weak are not oppressed by the powerful wheras some people want the opposite Islam abolished slavery even until few decades ago slavery was prevalent in america and britain they had ethiopian slaves. we are now seeing in america that the gap between the rich and poor is widening day by day and it is going to get worse eventually . islam does not allow hoarding of wealth it want wealth to be obligatorily given to poor in form of zakat and charity .every year form amuslims income .people should come out and read the quran and the life of the holy pyophet form a msulims perspective not from salman rushdies false perspective or zionist persepctive

Islam does not allw unjust killing if someone is doing that there are two posiibliites they are either being blamed for it since this is aglobal aginst Islam by the enmies of Islam or there are very few who have lsot heir families and are wanting to take revenge evn in that case Islam forbids killing innocent people of the other side
why blame islam for everything the talmud or the jewish holy book of law in the sanhedrins 55a considers all non jews to be subhumans or gentile referred as cutheans or heatheans and it s ok to shed their blood for the benefit of jews and ok to lie refer book of babkemma book of sanhedrins there are two types of the talmud and both consider it ok to treat nonjews as subhumans and jews having more right over them and jews hsould not be punishable for the killing of non jews because they have designated themselves as the chosen people of god Islam does not teach any kind of violence to innocent beings whether it is jew christian or hindu unless their religion their land or their property and life are threatened even in that case the quran asks us to fight only the ones engaged in warfare and not kill the ones who are not involved or who are away suicde is haram in islam . the most number of killing s in human history as everyone is aware and the most number of wars have been conducted by the crusaders christians until the present time which incldes holocaust of jews and killing millions of Iraqis in last four years and blaming a network which does not even exist .these blame game operatiosn are the handiwork of Islam's and god's enemies and people who do not believ in god have no value for his creation either and the first thing we need to have to call ourslves a muslim is to believ in allah and love him becaue he is the creator for all humans muslims and nonmuslims so if we hurt his creation unjustly we are hurting him and inviting his wrath and muslims believe in the day of judgement and beleive that every soul is answerable to god the moment it leaves the world therefore when one has fear of punishment he would not dare to do anything wrong and most fundamentalist muslim have fear of god. wheras in christian scriptures it says jesus died for thier sins there fore they are already assuming they are forgiven . so if one holds such beleifs it is but natural for one to cross any borders to do what he or she likes which includes killing unjustly lying, cheating,homosexualty, child molestation . if god had made certain people to be favored over others than this world would be aheaven for them in every way but it is not it is common sense but some politicians who want to defame Islam fail to realise that .and muslim have taken the blame for the false flag operations conducted by their enemies. what allah wants is to establish social justice in the world where the weak are not oppressed by the powerful wheras some people want the opposite Islam abolished slavery even until few decades ago slavery was prevalent in america and britain they had ethiopian slaves. we are now seeing in america that the gap between the rich and poor is widening day by day and it is going to get worse eventually . islam does not allow hoarding of wealth it want wealth to be obligatorily given to poor in form of zakat and charity .every year form amuslims income .people should come out and read the quran and the life of the holy pyophet form a msulims perspective not from salman rushdies false perspective or zionist persepctive

Islam does not allw unjust killing if someone is doing that there are two posiibliites they are either being blamed for it since this is aglobal against Islam by the enmies of Islam or there are very few who have lsot heir families and are wanting to take revenge evn in that case Islam forbids killing innocent people of the other side
why blame islam for everything the talmud or the jewish holy book of law in the sanhedrins 55a considers all non jews to be subhumans or gentile referred as cutheans or heatheans and it s ok to shed their blood for the benefit of jews and ok to lie refer book of babkemma book of sanhedrins there are two types of the talmud and both consider it ok to treat nonjews as subhumans and jews having more right over them and jews hsould not be punishable for the killing of non jews because they have designated themselves as the chosen people of god Islam does not teach any kind of violence to innocent beings whether it is jew christian or hindu unless their religion their land or their property and life are threatened even in that case the quran asks us to fight only the ones engaged in warfare and not kill the ones who are not involved or who are away suicde is haram in islam . the most number of killing s in human history as everyone is aware and the most number of wars have been conducted by the crusaders christians until the present time which incldes holocaust of jews and killing millions of Iraqis in last four years and blaming a network which does not even exist .these blame game operatiosn are the handiwork of Islam's and god's enemies and people who do not believ in god have no value for his creation either and the first thing we need to have to call ourslves a muslim is to believ in allah and love him becaue he is the creator for all humans muslims and nonmuslims so if we hurt his creation unjustly we are hurting him and inviting his wrath and muslims believe in the day of judgement and beleive that every soul is answerable to god the moment it leaves the world therefore when one has fear of punishment he would not dare to do anything wrong and most fundamentalist muslim have fear of god. wheras in christian scriptures it says jesus died for thier sins there fore they are already assuming they are forgiven . so if one holds such beleifs it is but natural for one to cross any borders to do what he or she likes which includes killing unjustly lying, cheating,homosexualty, child molestation . if god had made certain people to be favored over others than this world would be aheaven for them in every way but it is not it is common sense but some politicians who want to defame Islam fail to realise that .and muslim have taken the blame for the false flag operations conducted by their enemies. what allah wants is to establish social justice in the world where the weak are not oppressed by the powerful wheras some people want the opposite Islam abolished slavery even until few decades ago slavery was prevalent in america and britain they had ethiopian slaves. we are now seeing in america that the gap between the rich and poor is widening day by day and it is going to get worse eventually . islam does not allow hoarding of wealth it want wealth to be obligatorily given to poor in form of zakat and charity .every year form amuslims income .people should come out and read the quran and the life of the holy pyophet form a msulims perspective not from salman rushdies false perspective or zionist persepctive

Peace be to all on this list,

Whether it's issues of textual hermeneutics or claims of "stoogery," the crux of the matter returns to legitimacy, and Ali Gomaa has just that in my book. As a "meeting point between legal theory and social practice" (Caeiro 2006), the legitimate fatwa is the ideal medium through which to recontextualize and resituate pre-modern sources of law, be they textual or precedental. Both sides of the continuum - the Bin Ladens and the Robert Spencers (see Malik above) - ironically agree that Islam SHOULD be violent and that its classical sources cannot be viewed through the lens of modern realities. Ali Gomaa is somewhere in the middle of this continuum but he too admits that his knowledge of Western contexts is limited and that Western Muslims must take up the slack through proper training, ideally in ifta' (the process of giving fatwas).

May God help us all find the middle ground and seek to truly understand one another and not simply propagate the hatred of the Bin Ladens and Robert Spencers of the world. Amin/Amen.

Of course, it is always good when Muslims take a position on Islam to explain away (sometimes to little or too late) what Islam does or does not condone. My experience is that Muslims put out press statements or formal explanations when they have been disparaged as a community or singled out on airplanes as "suspicious". And maybe, after 9/11, they immediately condemned this terrorist attack as an aberration of Muslim believes. I don't know but six years later,two months shy of this tragic attack, I do not think that the Muslim community is ready or willing to speak out or condemn furiously the terrorists or their anti-social behavior. Criminal behavior by terrorists hurts the Muslim community as much as their so-called "Western degenerate devils". Please help me see the Muslim faith as a genuine religion composed of people with the capacity to practice "Free Will" and not an amorphous body of people who "appear" to be so imbued in their single mindedness that they project a fanatic image and a "take us as we are or leave us".
Finally, if Islam is to feel safe in the 21st Century then it must decide if it is going to retrench itself in a monolithic Medieval philosophy or accept that the World is not all Evil. Think, maybe there are some tenets in the Muslim faith that seem logical and normal to you,like the negative obsession with destroying visual images or icons. Personal images may seem anathema to Muslims but saved for the mandates in the Coran they put God (Allah) in nit-picking petty department considering all the major-serious
things the Almighty wants to accomplish before we destroy one another.
PS-Take care of your PR campaign: Don't go on explaining how good you are and show us you really care.
Thank you. Mr.Ortiz

The issue of violence in Islam is of prime importance. Just as important, however, is the issue of the foundation of Islam and for that matter the foundations of all contemporay religions.

Here is a synopsis repeated many times but rarely addressed especially by Muslim commentators. Here is your chance once again. A realistic acceptance of the historical foundations of these religions would go a long way in eliminating the violence in each.

1. Abraham founder/father of three major religions was probably a mythical character. If he was real, he was at best a combination of at least three men. 1.5 million Conservative Jews and their rabbis have relegated Abraham to the myth pile along with most if not all the OT.

2. Jesus, the illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter possibly suffering from hallucinations, has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth. Analyses of his life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists)via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian sects.

3. Mohammed, an illiterate, hallucinating Arab, also had embellishing/hallucinating scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the Koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.
This agenda continues as shown by the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers , the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers , the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani koranics, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases and the Filipino koranics.

4. Luther, Calvin, Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley et al, founders of Christian-based religions, also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingy thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

5. Hinduism (from an online Hindu site) - "Hinduism cannot be described as an organized religion. It is not founded by any individual. Hinduism is God centred and therefore one can call Hinduism as founded by God, because the answer to the question ‘Who is behind the eternal principles and who makes them work?’ will have to be ‘Cosmic power, Divine power, God’"
The caste/laborer system and cow worship are problems when saying a fair and rational God founded Hinduism."

6. Buddhism- "Buddhism began in India about 500 years before the birth of Christ. The people living at that time had become disillusioned with certain beliefs of Hinduism including the caste system, which had grown extremely complex. The number of outcasts (those who did not belong to any particular caste) was continuing to grow."

"However, in Buddhism, like so many other religions, fanciful stories arose concerning events in the life of the founder, Siddhartha Gautama (fifth century B.C.):"

Archaeological discoveries have proved, beyond a doubt, his historical character, but apart from the legends we know very little about the circumstances of his life.

http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/BUDDHISM/SIDD.HTM

Bottom line: There are many good ways of living but be aware of the hallucinations/embellishments and myths surrounding the founders of said rules of life.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus for an analysis of Jesus' life to include his illiteracy.

Alfredo:

As a Muslim I really appreciate your good will and desire to understand things properly. I think it is true that it has taken Muslim scholars a long time to figure out how to get their messages accross in the media. Sometimes it feels like the only Muslims who are effectively using the media are the Bin Ladens and the Zawahiris.

I think the ineffectiveness of Muslim scholars' media presence is clear even in your comment. You said, "maybe there are some tenets in the Muslim faith that seem logical and normal to you,like the negative obsession with destroying visual images or icons." There is nothing in Islam that calls for the destruction of visual images or icons. Islam just says don't produce them. Protestants don't believe in icons, but they also don't go around busting up Orthodox churches. When that whole Taliban thing was going down with the statues of the Budda, Mufti Gomaa was one of the most outspoken opponents of what they were doing. Even though he says statues are forbidden in Islam, he also says that just because something is forbidden, it doesn't mean Muslims should destroy it.

Unfortunately, much of what people in the non-Muslim world think of when they think of Islam is nothing more than extremist propaganda. Again, finally the Western media is giving space to a legitimate voice from within Islam. I hope this becomes a continuing trend.

Peace to all,

I agree, as Derek has stated, that Shaik Ali has one of the most balanced opinions within not only in the muslim comminity, but across the spectrum of the Abrahmic faiths.

In Jihad, he clarifies the difference between its usage in different contexts, quoting Muhammad himself. There we see that Jihad has many meanings, from regulated armed stuggle to spiritual exercise.

For womens issues, he balances the rights, differences, similarities, and equalities between men and women.

He also preserves the freedom of faith for an individual, yet in the same breath, protects the community from fanatic apostasy and terrorism. Moreover, he does this without compromising the divine prohibition of apostasy.

I believe that before assuming what religion says, we should first seek the religious knowledge from those who have mastered it. Scholars such as Shaik Ali can clarify the misconceptions that many of us have been afflicted with.

This is truly the middle and balanced path.

Aslamo alla man itba'a al hoda (Peace to those who follow the path of righteousness:

Its pretty amusing to see some of our fellow Muslims posting topics without any form of elaboration. This is a grievous mistake. For one, the heavenly books of the Bible, Quran, and the Torah are all known to carry verses that when looked upon at a glance may carry more than one meaning. Having said that, people will certainly doubt a verses true meaning. Another topic related to the topic of posted verses is that yes in the Quran there are parts which refer to Jihad in its "military" context. The enemies of Islam (and all relgions, ideas, etc) tend to use a method of pulling out these verses and point them out so blankly giving them that gory aura. Now lets not kid ourselves...Islamic jihad, Christian crusades, the Jews present conflicts, the human world is a bloody one. However, there is one difference to note here!!! All three fall under a cause. In my opinion, any1 out there who seeks the truth about Islam I would have to say seek out Ali Jomah or whoever is of equal intelligence when it comes to Islamic teachings and beliefs. I am not saying that whatever u hear from the rest of the world is false or anything, but it falls under the same issue as with the Biblical/Quranic/Torah verses. People from different cultures different worlds will believe in slightly different things. I personally wanna end this post, since I am not a man of words.

P.S: Seriously if you dont know what you're talking about please dont post. If you do know what ur talking about please write in detail dont post verses only.

Laterz all

my Dear Shaykh Ali Gooma:

salamun 'alaykum.
i enjoy reading your precise, explicit and definitive statements on several fundamental but polemic issues confronting the world of islam and the rest of the world.
thanks again for your incisive statements.
wa salamu 'alaykum
mohamad k yusuff

my Dear Shaykh Ali Gooma:

salamun 'alaykum.
i enjoy reading your precise, explicit and definitive statements on several fundamental but polemic issues confronting the world of islam and the rest of the world.
thanks again for your incisive statements.
wa salamu 'alaykum
mohamad k yusuff

Fables and tall tales! The world's mjor religions are based on unbelievable stories that are taken as absolute truths and then twisted to meet political and financial gain. It is time to stop these false beliefs, toss off the chains of superstition, and base our lives and world on reason. We have been killing one another over who's fables and who's imaginary friend is better for thousands of years. This situation is insanity. Mankind, grow up and stop believing the fairy tales your religious leaders are feeding you. These are stories created by man for the control of a few men over mankind. There is no heaven, there is no hell. There is only this life and we should treat each other with dignity and respect.

Why all this killing agaist buddhist in Asia, Jew in Middle East?

Why the killing of woman (sisters, wife, etc) on the "honor" subject?

Why the killing of homosexuals?

This is a cultural or islamic interpretation or a mix of subject?

What economic system the islamist preacher promote for their people?

Hey Craig Germain,

I dont mind living with you peacefully and this idea isnt something new (we all want peace dont we?). However, you should know that God has other plans for mankind greater than any single human being namely what you referred to as relgious leaders (I dont mean worldwide Jihad/i mean God is testing us all by placing us in an unfriendly enviroment). A minor note that many people are ignorant of EVEN SOME MUSLIMS, Christianity, Judaism , and Islam are from the same God. Since I am a Muslim I will tell you to go read the Quran or atleast look up some of the miracles that were mentioned or the MANY scientific facts that were already revealed within its pages. Note: the Quran was given to mankind by God 1400 years ago or more. In the end, I would like to commend you on spreading the word of peace, and the fact that false religious leaders do exist in our world since humans arent perfect. Yet, it is wrong to rationalize that their is no good WITHOUT REASON. God has given us brains for a REASON, no?
For every creation there is a creator Craig...
A question you might ask...where is God if he exists?? Well guess what, if mankind was able to see God then God is not a God...Another funny thought is as Humans we dont even know how we are created lol.

Hope you find the reason to believe in God friend only then will you find the peace you have been yearning for :)

The only flaw to your well rehearsed diatribe is that Islam views ANY suggestion of Compromise or Capitulation, as a direct assault on it! You summed it up perfectly when you espoused your inability to allow an apostate to live! You accept no concessions!

To exist in an over-crowded World, everyone and everything must learn to co-exist, or we are faced with a very ugly dilemma.

Allow the obnoxious and greedy bully to over-run the well behaved, while foolishly ignoring the damage being done to the harmony of the group, or taking the spoiled punk down! Islam, amazes me with their selective memories! It is as if all history began with Mohammad! I hate to tell you this, but you are the NEW Guys on the block! You have grown as you have thanks in no small part to your isolationistic societies being out of the mainstream untill Oil was found! Now, the World is hearing your Money backed up demands about what you think you want and somehow deserve!

We do not owe you a damn thing!

Islam, is not the Country's being invaded by non-Islamic groups! Islam is and are the invaders of the people's lands you stole! What next? Get into America and Europe, and then declare those muslim lands that infidels don't belong in?

Don't think so!

BTW-Israel was there before Mohammad was even born!

Hi! I'm RAT!

Bet YOU were not ready for that!

Salom!

muslims need to speak out and say that the terrorist suicide bombings have nothing to do with Islam and muslim ideology these acts are only to defame Islam there may be few people out there to avenge their family being killed in warfare but they would still not resort to suicide bombings they may try to go and fight with the army but majority of muslim whether shia or sunni would not resort to suicide attacks because it is haram in Islam .they may be killed defnding themselves but muslims in genral do not resrot to suicide . but it is human nature that if someon comes to attack them whether it animal or human or any harm they try to avoid or get out of it nobody wants to harm themselves .and defending themselves from harm does not mean its terrorism if they dont defend themselves means there is something wrong with their intellect .muslims are seeing the west as athreat to thier religion and their identity and faith and freedom to practice their faith . I think the western people should realise that Islam is a religion of peace and mercy and forgiveness .

The problem is with the Bush-Chenny policy: "attack before you get hit, the confrontation can be a nuclear bombarment against Iran-Syria-Afganistan territories!
With the consent of the american and some european people!!

Suicide bombing is a grave issue, yes, but a issue greater than that is the greater explicit malicious conduct of warfare on both sides of the coin. Collateral damgage is wrong, whether it affects tens of innocent people in suicide bombings, or the hundreds of people that are killed by missles and disease, or the children who die of starvation due to economic sanctions. If we isolate this issue, we will marginalize the bigger picture of worldwide oppression, whether great or small. Islam does not support the killing of any innocent person, whether on the hands of muslims, jews, or christians.

We condem suicide bombing, but we also forget the invasion of countries that result in the killing of thousands of people. So my message is that all people, muslim christian and jew, stand against all innocent killings without bias to any side.

Koran 9:5

Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Al-Shawkani

Suyuti in his book استنباط التنزيل (Istenbat al tanzeel) says: “Every thing in the Qur'an about forgiveness is abrogated by verse 9:5.” Al-Shawkani in his book السيل الجرار (Alsaylu Jarar 4:518-519) says: “Islam is unanimous about fighting the unbelievers and forcing them to Islam or submitting and paying Jiziah (special tax paid only by Christians or Jews) or being killed. [The verses] about forgiving them are abrogated unanimously by the obligation of fighting in any case.”
Please note that I am not telling Muslims which verses to follow and which not. As I said earlier, I believe 100% in an individual’s right to choose his or her beliefs. However, what I am saying is that according to the Islamic doctrine of abrogation, these verses are null and void. They are contradicted by later verses, and in Islam it is the later verses which must be followed today.

Sam,

Muslims need to renounce the Koran and the Haddiths because they teach Muslims to take over the world but any means necessary. Islam is inherently violent and until all the politically correct talking heads figure this out we will be under constant attack.

Most Muslims know that they can play to all the politically correct politicians and media typs so they selectively qoute koran verses and Haddiths that appear to speak of peace. As demonstrated above all peace verses which there are very few have been superceeded by Koran 9:5. This is the war verse. Muhammad said it himself. He said:

"I have been ordered by God to fight with people till they bear testimony to the fact that there is no God but Allah and that Mohammed is his messenger, and that they establish prayer and pay Zakat (money). If they do it, their blood and their property are safe from me" (see Bukhari Vol. I, p. 13).

This is amazing considering we have armies of politicians and media tpes running around acting as though they are experts on Islam and saying that Islam is a "religion of peace." These claims contradict Muhammad's word's and actions. They contradict the history of Islam (Turkey and the Middle East and parts of Africa were all conquered by the sword of the prophet and his followers). They contradict the actions of Muslims around the world. Almost everywhere Islam rules there is intolerance, murder, and war. It is amazing to me that the media can have a front seat to all this violence and yet tow the politically correct line. They wear politically correct glasses and are blinded to the truth that is playing out right before them. Most of our politicians and media zealots are blind guides and are helping usher in the death of the West.

CNN, MSNBC, FOX, CNN International, etc. have all become apologist channels for Islam. I have heard news anchors on each one of these networks support the lie that Islam is a religion of peace.

Azhar’s Scholars in Egypt

In his book, "Jurisprudence in Muhammad’s Biography", the Azhar scholar, Dr. Muhammad Sa’id Ramadan al-Buti says the following (page 134, 7th edition):
"The Holy War, as it is known in Islamic Jurisprudence, is basically an offensive war. This is the duty of Muslims in every age when the needed military power becomes available to them. This is the phase in which the meaning of Holy War has taken its final form. Thus the apostle of God said: ‘I was commanded to fight the people until they believe in God and his message ..."’

This sounds really good you should start telling other muslims

Truth Seeker:

The doctrine of abrogation is by no means agreed upon amongst Muslim scholars. I know that Mufti Gomaa for example holds the view that there is no abrogation of the Quran.

The Islamic tradition is vast and as long as people insist on pulling bits and pieces out of context we will never understand its reality.

I think it's interesting that in many cases Muslim extremists and Islamophobes hold the same positions about Islam. The only people that think Muslims have to kill everyone else are Bin Laden and Robert Spencer; strange bedfellows to say the least! I for one am looking for people who are actually interested in dailogue and coexistence, and so are the vast majority of Muslims in the world.

Ahmed,

Lying is also encouraged in Islam to gain an upper hand on one's enemies. Al-Bukhari recorded that Abu Ad-Darda said, 'We smile in the face of some people although our hearts curse them.' Al-Bukhari said that Al-Hasan said, 'The Tuqyah [or taqiyya, the shielding of what is in one's heart] is allowed until the Day of Resurrection.'"

Even if Gomma honestly denies the abrogation doctrine he is an anomaly in the Muslim world. He does not hold the consensus position. All you have to do is observe the Violence and intolerance in the Islamic world to know what Muslims believe about offensive war to advance Islam.

Calling me an Islamophobe does not prove anything. It is an Ad hominine attack. People use these kind of tactics when they cannot prove their position. You need to prove that Islam is peaceful. Good luck, the life and words of the prophet, the history of Islam, and the current state of affairs in the Muslim world prove one thing, Islam is not peaceful.

The Words of Muhammad follow:
"I have been ordered by God to fight with people till they bear testimony to the fact that there is no God but Allah and that Mohammed is his messenger, and that they establish prayer and pay Zakat (money). If they do it, their blood and their property are safe from me" (see Bukhari Vol. I, p. 13).

David,

Please give us the "myriads" of peace verses in the Koran. Stop drinking the politically correct kool aid. You have been brainwashed.

dont you islamics ever tell the truth? no of course not. you hate everthing not islamic! here is what jihad means - and what you do about it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4&mode=related&search=

and this one too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxk5AAA5FbI&mode=related&search=

islam is a cult of death.
in ww1 it was responsible for the murder of 1.8 million christian armenians.

in ww2 it sided with hitler and had its own ss divisions.

everything islam has it took by force.

dont you islamics ever tell the truth? no of course not. you hate everthing not islamic! here is what jihad means - and what you do about it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4&mode=related&search=

and this one too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxk5AAA5FbI&mode=related&search=

islam is a cult of death.
in ww1 it was responsible for the murder of 1.8 million christian armenians.

in ww2 it sided with hitler and had its own ss divisions.

everything islam has it took by force.

islamics are liars. they will tell you that there are verses in the koran about peace, but they will fail to mention that it was before they got an army to force islam on you.
here is the reality.
if a man comes to you and says he wants you to join his club and you say no and he leaves, then that is peaceful.
if he comes back with a gang and ther are more people in it than you can resist, and they beat and kill as many of you who will not join and the others join out of fear, that is islam.
would anyone believe at that point that you actually had a choice -even if they pointed to their first act of not forcing you until they got a large gang together?
that is islam.

here is the history of islam - ALL PEACE AND LOVE?
i have been accused of being hateful because i quote the koran.
and what appears to be so wrong in quoting the koran? im called angry and evil for quoting it. so what does that make the person who said it was the word of god? or that god for that matter?
what appears to be wrong with asking islamics who say they want peace to reject passages so evil that they could have been written by hitler or stalin. I would never be part of a religion that REQUIRED people to hate, kidnap, ransom, torture, cut off body parts, rape, murder and force conversions, as part of the holy writing of that religion. sounds more like the devil than any god I would ever pray to. how about you? does your god demand that of you?
and its not that it is demanded but that it is done, every day, by its followers. what kind of religion is that?
people think im pushing a particular religion, im not. I don't care what you believe. every religion believe that they are the true path [someone said janists don't but I have no actual knowledge about that] and I can see that. no problem. im more than a little concerned about the hate part, but if your religion wants hate - well there is nothing anyone can do about that.
it's the other parts what concern their conduct in the temporal world that bother me. it's the kidnap, ransom, torture, cut off body parts, rape, murder and force conversions, that I object to. and that is what islam is doing, has done and will continue to do, unless it makes so major changes.
yes there have been those who said they were christians that were vile and evil. hitler was a catholic alter boy. he was pure evil and notice that the christain world attack and destroyed him and those that supported him. what did the islamic world do with hilter? they embraced him. after all he was killing jews and did not appear to be much of a christian as far as they were concerned. http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/gallery/ is a link with photographs of islamic leaders and the nazi's. hitler was so inspired by their hate of jews that the largest ss division outside of germany was in bosnia. remember them - we fought for them a few years ago and were going to be home by christmas - 1997.
so the problem is not their belief - its their conduct, which has not changed in 1400 years.
I know - what about the crusades you will ask? here is why they started. don't you think that 400 years of being attacked might call for a strong response? The first Crusade began in 1095… 460 years after the first Christian city was overrun by Muslim armies, 457 years after Jerusalem was conquered by Muslim armies, 453 years after Egypt was taken by Muslim armies, 443 after Muslims first plundered Italy, 427 years after Muslim armies first laid siege to the Christian capital of Constantinople, 380 years after Spain was conquered by Muslim armies, 363 years after France was first attacked by Muslim armies, 249 years after Rome itself was sacked by a Muslim army, and only after centuries of church burnings, killings, enslavement and forced conversions of Christians.
and you will say what about the spanish inquisition? well it was not part of the bible now commanded by the god of abraham or jesus. but here are some facts you can look up. the church had the order of the holy inquisition. it was charged with finding out about heresy. what people forget is that it was not controlled by the church. the members were appointed by the kings of the various countries and the pope rubber stamped it. in spain the king needed money and lands so he used it to obtain them and what he did was evil, vile and base. it will be condemned by all good christains everywhere and for all times. in acting like he did he violated every christian doctrine, and became the instrument of the devil. but strangely enough, if he had been islamic he would have been a hero because everything done in spain is part of what is ordered by the god of islam to be done. what does that say about islam and its relationship to the other people in the world?
and let me talk about the god, as other religions look at it. I make no determination for anyone. but look at the god of the old testament. the god of abraham and isac, of moses of david of solomon. a god that spent about 2500 years protecting the jews, calling them his people, at least according to the jews. this god even said he would bring a messiah to them, a jew. well here comes jesus. he was a jew, of that there is no doubt. his mother was a jew as was his grandmother - which means hitler would have killed him. there is a dispute about who his father is, but work with me here. the god of jesus was the same god of abraham. jesus never said to hurt the jews for not believing in his as his kingdom was not of this world. and when asked what the most important command was - remember there are about 260 - or so - jesus said love your lord your god with all your heart. but then he added that there was another that was almost as important - to love your neighbor as yourself. wow - pretty heavy for back then.
then 600 years later we get moho. he says he is the decedent of abraham through his sex with hagar - and their son ishmael. now this happened about 2500 bc - so the story would be 3,000 years old by then. and the funny thing is - there is not one bit of evidence that he was correct. NOTHING. no tribe with a verbal history going back in time. no writings - nothing at all. and now moho is told by his god - that he is the god of abraham and jesus - people who are already following that same god - but now moho must tell people that god wants all jews and christians not only hated, but kidnap, ransom, torture, cut off body parts, rape, murder and force conversions into belief in a god they already believe in. does that make any since to you?
does it make since that the messenger of the god of islam picks someone who, after being picked, thinks that at 40 he should have sex with a 9 year old child? is that the same god of the old and new testaments?
does it make since that the all knowing god of islam thinks the trinity is the father, son and mary, when the rest of the christian would thought it to be father, son and holy spirit? how did the all knowing god of moho get that one wrong?
but the fact that islam is internally inconsistent makes me no mind, its their relationship with the rest of the world.
and even though there are those islamics who smile and tell you they want world peace - they forget to tell you that they consider peace to only consist of a world ruled by islam and the koran and there can never be peace until that happens.

why did we have the crusades? here is a history for you.

One of many sacks of Rome, that of the year 846 was the only instance of Muslims sacking the capital of the Christian church.
During the 8th and 9th centuries, the Arabs (known by mediaeval Italians as the Saracens) had begun to expand into Southern Italy during the Muslim conquest of Southern Italy. These newcomers, sailing from their bases in North Africa, had conquered Sicily and had begun a steady penetration of the peninsula.
Under Pope Paschal I (817-824), all the spoils of the holy martyrs were transferred into the walls of the city. When Rome was finally sacked in 846, Paschal's preparation did not prevent the robbery of Basilica of Saint Peter itself, nor of another major basilica, San Paolo fuori le Mura, both of which were outside the ancient fortifications.

hey lets talk crusades.
i posted a date by date history of islam's first 50 years. murder after murder. now here is a summary of what lead up to the crusades.
The first Crusade began in 1095… 460 years after the first Christian city was overrun by Muslim armies, 457 years after Jerusalem was conquered by Muslim armies, 453 years after Egypt was taken by Muslim armies, 443 after Muslims first plundered Italy, 427 years after Muslim armies first laid siege to the Christian capital of Constantinople, 380 years after Spain was conquered by Muslim armies, 363 years after France was first attacked by Muslim armies, 249 years after Rome itself was sacked by a Muslim army, and only after centuries of church burnings, killings, enslavement and forced conversions of Christians.

846 Muslims sacking the capital of the Christian church. During the 8th and 9th centuries, the Arabs (known by mediaeval Italians as the Saracens) had begun to expand into Southern Italy during the Muslim conquest of Southern Italy. These newcomers, sailing from their bases in North Africa, had conquered Sicily and had begun a steady penetration of the peninsula.
Under Pope Paschal I (817-824), all the spoils of the holy martyrs were transferred into the walls of the city. When Rome was finally sacked in 846, Paschal's preparation did not prevent the robbery of Basilica of Saint Peter itself, nor of another major basilica, San Paolo fuori le Mura, both of which were outside the ancient fortifications.

To prevent a second such incident, in 852 Pope Leo IV commissioned the construction of another wall (so-called Leonine Wall) around an area on the opposite side of the Tiber from the seven hills of Rome. This enclosure has since become known as the Leonine City.

additionally - The Islamic conquest and domination of Sicily, as well as parts of southern Italy, is a process whose origin must be traced back in the general expansion of Islam from the 7th century onwards.

The first attacks from Islamic ships to Sicily, then part of the Eastern Roman Empire, occurred in 652: they were Arabs from Syria, led by Mu'àuia ibn-Hodeig of the Kinda tribe, and remained on the island for several years. The Byzantine exarch of Ravenna Olympius also came to Sicily but were unable to oust the invaders, who returned to Syria after collecting a large booty.

A second expedition occurred in 669. This time the strong, ravaging force consisted of 200 ships from Alexandria. They sacked Syracuse and returned to Egypt after a month of pillaging. After the Umayyad conquest of Africa (complete around 700), attacks from Muslim fleets repeated in 703, 728, 729, 730, 731, 733 and 734, the last two times meeting with a substantial Byzantine resistance.

The first true conquest expedition was launched in 740: in that year the Muslim prince Habib, who participated on the 728 attack, and his son Abdurrahman, after a successful siege of Syracuse, were ready to conquer the whole island when they were called back to Tunisia by a Berber revolt. A second attack in 752 aimed only to sack the city.

In 805 the Imperial patrician of Sicily, Constantine, signed a ten years truce with Ibrahim I ibn al-Aghlab, Emir of Ifriqiya, but this did not prevent other Muslim fleets from other areas of Africa and Spain to attack Sardinia and Corsica in 806-821. In 812 Ibrahim's son, Abdallah I, sent an invasion force to conquer Sicily. His ships were however pushed back first by the intervention of Gaeta and Amalfi, and later by a tempest which destroyed much of them. However, they managed to conquer the islands of Lampedusa and, in the Tyrrhenian Sea, to ravage Ponza and Ischia. A further agreement between the new patrician Gregorius and the Emir established the freedom of commerce between southern Italy and Ifriqiya. After a further attack by Mohammed ibn-Adballad, cousin of Emir Ziyadat Allah I in 819, no news of subsequent Muslim attack to Sicily are known until 827.
At his point, Sicily was almost entirely in control of Aghlabids, with the exception of some minor strongholds in the rugged interior. The population had been increased by the immigration of Muslims from Africa, Asia and Spain, as well as Berbers, who were most concentrated in the southern of the island. The emir in Palermo nominated the governors of the main cities (qadi) and those of the less important ones (hakim), and the other functionaries. Each city had a council called gema, composed by the most eminent members of the local society, which was entrusted of the care of the public works and of the social order.

The conquered Sicilian population was subjected to the typical discrimination against the Infidel found in most Muslim dominated lands.

****They were permitted freedom of worship, but only if they accepted the inferior status of a dhimmi.****

As dhimmi they were subjected to extra taxation -- the jizya (poll tax) and the kharaj (land tax), which ensured that they were contributing to the upkeep of security and protection that the Muslim armies were providing them. There were restrictions on repairing or building new churches. The dhimmi could not bear arms or ride a horse and were required to wear distinctive clothes so that they could be easily identified as dhimmi. Some converted to Islam in order to leviate the additional taxes that they had to pay. This situation resulted in the spread of Islam among the inhabitants (whether by honest conviction or economic and societal compulsion). However, many Greek Christian communities managed to survive as dhimmi until the arrival of the Normans -- especially in the hill towns of Northeastern Sicily. These Sicilians generally welcomed the Norman invaders.

isn't 500 years of being attacked, sacking rome, enough to warrant a response? not if your islamic.

now lets look at the early times of islam. i am not including those things they did internally - onloy things designed to spread the faith as the koran demands. everyone has wars, but these are only the wars demanded by the koran to murder and hate those who will not join islam. in history that is the difference. the god of islam demands hate and murder - no other religion has that. that is what makes islam a cult of death and not a religion.
ISLAM - IN THE BEGINING:

622-623AD: Mecca-Medina: Mohammed with followers flees opposition in Mecca and go to Medina. The first mosque is built. Mohammed becomes a warrior.

625AD: Arabia: Battle of Ohod, victory of the Meccans.

624AD: Arabia: First battle for the faith with the Meccans at Bedr. Victory of Mohammed.

628AD: Mohammedan war against the Jews of Khaibar.

629AD: Arabia, Mohammedan war against the Greek subjects in Arabia.

629AD: Emperor Heraclius in Constantinople receives embassies from as far away as France and India, and surprisingly, also a letter (as an apocryphal legend) from an Arabian chieftain and a Prophet of God, Mohammed, suggesting that he join a new faith.

630AD: Arabia, Mohammed moves against Mecca and conquers it. War with the Hawazin. Rapid spread of Islam. The Ka'aba in Mecca, a repository of idols, is cleansed of idols and becomes a building deeply revered by Moslems.

632AD: Death of Mohammed. The Prophet's successor is his father-in-law, Abu Bakr (Abu Bekr) who is chosen Caliph, or representative, and pursues an expansionist policy. Persians are expelled from Bahrein. An army under Khalid sets out against the Byzantine Empire. An Arab army moves up the south coast of Palestine and takes Gaza. Abu Bakr reduces a revolt in Nejd and Yemen, and defends Medina.
634AD: Moslem conquest of Yemen.

635AD: Islam: Moslem capture of Damascus. by 636 are added conquests of Emesa, Heliopolis, Chalcis, Beroae, Edessa, Battle of Yermuk