I have a question about Point 3 above.

Is the following information correct, and how literally do Muslims take that information?

The majority of the population of hell is female. Also, nobody is more deficient in intelligence and religion than a woman.
(Burkhari, vol. I, no. 28; Burkhari, vol. I, no. 301; Burkahari, vol. I, no. 161)

Dear Merve Kavakci,

Woman can not open her mouth in islam.
Woman has no any right in islam.
Woman is the second class citizen in islam.
Cow chapter(2.282) says 'two women equals one man'.
4.11 says 'inherit...to the male the equivalent of the portion of two females'
4.3 says 'marry women of your choice,two or three or four'Does woman have right to choose? Can woman 'take' four men?
2.223 says 'Your women are a tilth for you' Are you a tilth?
4.34 'man can scourge woman'
Man can divorce woman,but woman has no right to do so.For example,you divorced your first husband,if you lived in islamic laws you wouldnt to do so,You should thank to secular laws.

Dear Kavakci,
You are not one who speaks correct.8-9 years ago,you had left Turkish citizenship,but you tried to be elected as MP,but you have been ousted from Turkish Parliament.You said 'I am the girl of Republic' but you still try to undermine Secular Turkey.Which one is correct?
The chairman of your party Erbakan said 'Those who dont support us(my party) are from the 'Religion of Potato(?)' What does it mean?Is this islam?

Lets come to your article.
1-Jihad is a compulsory duty in Dar ul Harb(Land of War,for example USA)4.95 says 'who strive with their wealth and live a rank above'.
Islam is the Cult of violence.Islam is backwardness.
2-Apostasy is not tolerated in islam.5.54,47.25 and 5.33 altogather means Apostasy is mischief and rebellion.You know the punishment.'La ikraha fi-deen' is one of the contrdictions in islam,for example Headscarf is a compulsion.
3-'Men and Women are created equal'.No,not accurate.Can you show any islamic country where men and women are equal?
You say 'If woman choose to work...'No,if her husband doesnt permit,she can not work.33.33 says 'stay(women) in your houses.

Dear Kavakci,
Headscarf is the mark of subjugation and enslavement,not a democratic right.
Headscarf is the mark of being second class citizen,not a human right.
Black wrap(penguin) is a torture on woman.
If you want to advocate 'women rights',first of all,Unchain your head.

You can dress it up any way you want to, but Islam is in itself misogynistic. Islamic men are also afraid to give women their equal rights because it will show how backward and Dark Ages Islam is as a so-called religion. It is more of a cult in the classic sense. Do you also notice that none of these writers condemn what fanatical Muslims are doing to non-Muslims, nor do they mention how non-Muslims (e.g., Christians and Jews) are treated in Muslim-majority countries.

Just an absolutely disgusting belief ! !

the author says that women in the islamic world have privileges, not rights. privileges can be tken away, rights can not. db

Thank you Kavakci for your insight. I find your argument on the illogicality of comparing Western and Islamic rights of women very interesting. They indeed do have different outlooks on life. I also feel sorry for what you have to go through when people insult you for what you believe in. It's living proof that secularists too can get very ugly.

darius-

no, that is not what she said-

here is what she said-
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For instance, a Muslim woman does not have to work if she chooses to. That is to say that it is the male’s responsibility to be the bread winner for the family. If the woman chooses to work, then the husband has no right to claim the earnings of the wife. In other words, the absence of the “right” in the Western context is a “privilege” in the Islamic context."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

the "right" of the husband to claim his wifes earnings in the western context- or to demand that his wife work-
are privileges that muslim women arent subject to.

a woman can work if she likes, or not work if she likes.
the husband MUST provide for her needs in the same manner that he provides for his own.

and if she works, the husband has no "right" to touch her money or assets. at all. ever.

and STILL take care of all financial needs!

these are not privileges that can be taken away.
they are the rights of the wife.

she was saying that what constitutes a "right" for women in the western world (to HAVE to work, and contribute their earnings to the household)
is a right to their detriment when looked at from a muslim woman's perspective.

i, as a muslim woman have the RIGHT to be maintained and provided for by my husband.

i, as a muslim woman have a RIGHT to utilize my own assets in any way i want.

it is a PRIVILEGE that i dont have to work if i dont want to -
and a privilege that i can keep any assets i garner. they are mine, and mine alone.
not my childrens, not my husbands, fathers, brothers, sisters etc.

and all of my, and my childrens financial needs must STILL be provided for by my husband.

if i work, i keep my money, if i dont, i still am provided for by my huisband.

so you misunderstand what was said.

what is considered a "right" in western society, we muslimah's are PRIVILEGED not to be subjected to.

and these RIGHTS CANNOT BE TAKEN FROM US!

hope that clears it up for you.

The issue of violence in Islam is of prime importance. Just as important, however, is the issue of the foundation of Islam and for that matter the foundations of all contemporay religions.

Here is a synopsis repeated many times but rarely addressed especially by Muslim commentators. Here is your chance once again. A realistic acceptance of the historical foundations of these religions would go a long way in eliminating the violence in each.

1. Abraham founder/father of three major religions was probably a mythical character. If he was real, he was at best a combination of at least three men. 1.5 million Conservative Jews and their rabbis have relegated Abraham to the myth pile along with most if not all the OT.

2. Jesus, the illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter possibly suffering from hallucinations, has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth. Analyses of his life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists)via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian/Jewish/Pagan sects.

3. Mohammed, an illiterate, hallucinating Arab, also had embellishing/hallucinating scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the Koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.
This agenda continues as shown by the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers , the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers , the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani koranics, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases and the Filipino koranics.

4. Luther, Calvin, Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley et al, founders of Christian-based religions, also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingy thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

5. Hinduism (from an online Hindu site) - "Hinduism cannot be described as an organized religion. It is not founded by any individual. Hinduism is God centred and therefore one can call Hinduism as founded by God, because the answer to the question ‘Who is behind the eternal principles and who makes them work?’ will have to be ‘Cosmic power, Divine power, God’"
The caste/laborer system and cow worship are problems when saying a fair and rational God founded Hinduism."

6. Buddhism- "Buddhism began in India about 500 years before the birth of Christ. The people living at that time had become disillusioned with certain beliefs of Hinduism including the caste system, which had grown extremely complex. The number of outcasts (those who did not belong to any particular caste) was continuing to grow."

"However, in Buddhism, like so many other religions, fanciful stories arose concerning events in the life of the founder, Siddhartha Gautama (fifth century B.C.):"

Archaeological discoveries have proved, beyond a doubt, his historical character, but apart from the legends we know very little about the circumstances of his life.

http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/BUDDHISM/SIDD.HTM

Bottom line: There are many good ways of living but be aware of the hallucinations/embellishments and myths surrounding the founders of said rules of life.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus for an analysis of Jesus' life to include his illiteracy.

semantic nonsense--absolutely NOBODY considers jihad to be personal development,its a death contract,a "HIT"..rushdie,the swedish journalists,etcwere not waging war on islam,they criticized it..to not allow woman to express themselves publicly,to not allow people to convert publicly:these are not "cultural differences",its tyrannyt

Wonderful. Thank you for explaining everything so beautifully.

" It is the duty of every Muslim, man,woman,or child,to read the Qur'an and understand it according to his or her own capacity." A. Yusef Ali. One must be Muslim in body, mind and spirit to call one self Muslim, not all Arabs are Muslim. A Woman is the best when she is Muslim. She has equality much greater then American/Western women have,and she is proud of it and God knows it.

"And nowise is the male like the female.Qur'an 3:36 Mary (Peace be unto her),the mother of Jesus bears witness to these words, men can not bear the fruits that gives life, there is a certain sense of pride in the girl on the part of the mother. Muslims women do not have to bear their husband last name when they marry. The hijab(parda) is written in the Qur'an for women to cover her bosom, for this is her modesty that is ordained by God, if she is a believing (Muslim) woman. Both Muslim "Men" and women are ordained to " lower their gaze and guard their modesty" as it is written in the Qur'an. The Catholic Nuns (sister's) dresses in accrodance to the Qur'an and present day Muslim woman. The Nuns are not laugh at nor taunt & tease about her religious dress, neither should the Muslim woman. Remember Mary the mother of Jesus dressed in the same matter.

My point here is simple Read Qur'an, read God's words and see and understand for yourself what is truly Islam( submitting one's will to god) and what is not. See who is Muslim and who is not. Then make a rational decision based on truth and God's word. Remember Jesus(Peace be unto him) stated " Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away; for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you" John 16:7. And the Comforter was Prophet Mohammed (peace be unto him) and woman was given back her righteous place of honor and diginty and equality. The Western woman have no idea what good is. I thank you for your time and patience. Inspiring Imam, Brother Michael

"For instance, a Muslim woman does not have to work if she chooses to."

What does this mean? If she does not want to work then she does not work. If she is hired for a position and she does not work, then that employer enjoys the right to send her home.

Western societies do not permit woman to have extra maritial affairs. You are wrong for thinking of this. In fact, there is laws against this.

You may not have brought this up, but Islamic woman do not have the right to sue to prevent their picture to be taken by DMV. First off, woman are poor drivers and I am sure Islamic woman are not the great since they did not grow up around cars like we do. Second, if you do not like our customs, then return to the psychotic middle east. Third, I do not trust anyone who does not want to take off something on their head. Fourth, in hot environments, being covered like that is just stupid.

How can a religion that preaches peace and is against suicide allow so many of its members warp it's teachings and have such irrational thoughts?

I think Muslims are prone to violence since Muhammed used violence in his own life.

Thank you.

How can a religion that preaches peace and is against suicide allow so many of its members warp it's teachings and have such irrational thoughts?

I think Muslims are prone to violence since Muhammed used violence in his own life.

Thank you.

Koran 4:34

Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

im sorry tom c-

you are misinformed.

do i seem as if i am unable to express myself?

jihad is the striving to ferret out the negative impulses- it is for us to delve deeply into and confront our own weaknesses, recognize them, and then consciously develop good habits to replace the old negative tendencies.

it can be anything- selfishness, fears, vanity anything.

self awareness and responsibility.

ben- i beg to differ on your observations about women drivers and muslimah's in particular.

first- arabs comprise a minority of less than 18% of the total muslim population today.

i am 46 years old for instance, and have been driving for 30 years.

in all thi time i have never had even a traffic ticket of the most mundane kind.

amazing isnt it?

i was taught to drive by an ex-nascar driver and am very proud of my driving skills.

i drove a plymouth satelite with a 318 mopar engine from northern california to pittsburgh pennsylvania almost non-stop in less than 3 days

cross country, by myself, (318 mopar engine is BIG) they dont make em like that anymore.

this is kind of descending into silly misogynist nonsense- so off i fly

peace

Hello,

I would like some clarification as to the meaning of parts of this interesting article. (W Post, please employ some more subeditors.)

Your point 2. You say: "According to classical Islamic literature, a Muslim is not granted de jure Islamic right to convert to another faith in public as opposed to in heart and in private. This is predicated upon the fact that Islamic jurisprudence credo is considered to be a part of the theoretical public order in an Islamic state.

One may think that blasphemy and apostasy in public against the public order theoretically may fall outside the application of “La ikraha fi-Deen.” "

First question. Are you saying that the harsh penalties attaching to publicly admitted conversion from Islam, and blasphemy --- which according to Sharia law, as I understand it, will often be death --- are justifiable because they are forms of treason?

Second question. If your answer to 1 is, yes, could you please explain why the state has the right to kill those who disagree with it?

Third question. Would you say that any state has a similar right of ownership over its citizens? Or only Islamic states?

Fourth question. What is "La ikraha fi-Deen"? You do not define it. Apologies for my ignorance.

Thank you.

ummm... actually in hot climates it makes a lot of sense to wear more clothes. The peoples of this area of the world have always worn robes, layered robes mainly of cotton cloth. This allows sweat to wick away from the body, and also prevents sunburn.

The secular idea was meant to solve a problem. Turkey possesses a severe definition of it. Perhaps the Generals don't want a society that allows the use of religion as a tool in politics. Where a candidate shouts I am holier than thou and fitter to lead! How many times a day do you pray? Bill Clinton's 'resurrection' came with the sad realization after too many years of W that something else was needed. The politician, like Caesar, deals with the here and now. Nobody has separated God from the people. In this case Islam will survive among the people not because of the state. Somebody once claimed that Turkey could be as strong or as weak as it liked. I agree. It's that sense of awkwardness which comes from Islam. It doesn't know what to do with it. How do you reconcile with the other two? Like its neighbors it also needs access to Europe. It clearly sees its biggest market there yet it still does good to remind people of its interests elsewhere. Until they are developed it will never possess the value that will make it welcome in the EU. If the French will fuss about the 'Polish plumber' can you imagine the racket from his Turkish counterpart?! The upheaval in the Middle East has nothing to do with Islam. It's part of a continuing series of shocks that has plagued the Trans-Atlantic community for centuries over the issue of power. Today it would seem that if you aren't divinely appointed then you must be duly elected. That's one reason why the Generals won't move. Another reason is happening in Iraq right now. There will be no peace inside Iraq until there is peace outside of Iraq between America and its neighbors. If America can't control its own border with Mexico it certainly can't deal with Iraq's border. I don't doubt that Mrs. Clinton will win in 2008. I don't doubt that she will inherit a nasty situation from W. There is also only one reason behind any redeployment that's a change in American policy in the Middle East. For one thing it will no longer be the preserve of the Sunni Arab states. Turkey and Iran are both needed in the Middle East along with Russian co-operation. I also don't see the removal of those ABM bases in Eastern Europe until Putin co-operates in Iran. Nor can I see Iran co-operating on anything while its relations with Washington remain at such a low. It's Turkey's involvement with the process for stabilization of relations between the Middle East and the West that makes it valuable to Brussels as well as Washington. When this occurs there's always room for one more. There is nothing anybody can do about terrorism except adopt measures to control it. It's really a symptom of a sick society when it occurs on such a regular basis. It's amazing what peace and prosperity can do for the patient. You know Marx was right about one truly important matter. Capitalism can become oppressive without the competition that it needs to thrive. It's just that he choose the wrong prescription. How does human development occur? Aristotle wrote the Constitution of Athens 25 centuries ago. It's based on his Politics. It's also the only piece of evidence of democracy in the world until the 18th century. Political development may precede economic development but economic development definitely precedes political development. As the Chinese are quickly discovering it's impossible to keep track of everything or even attend to your interests when they keep growing at such a rapid pace. A legislature is needed but too often an autocracy assumes charge. It still faces the same problems. In the past they served their purpose but today the economies of the world are growing at such a rapid clip that it overwhelms government. Over the past two generations in America free trade and civil rights remain the two most important ideas that America has developed and adopted. Perhaps the final push that they and other ideas, like the common market, needed was the devastation of the last century. That's no way to run a world. At the colleges students were once always talking about the arms race, the population explosion, racial relations or a starving world. If you took the map of the world one century ago and compare it with the world today the differences are breathtaking! Still the changes haven't stopped. Perhaps that's the real fear feeding this terrorism. The changes haven't stopped nor can people be assured about it. Change isn't progress. A good deal of it can be frivolous and some ideas downright bad but it's a risk that progress demands, must be taken for the advancement of any society in this world. North Korea, Cuba and Zimbabwe serve a purpose. No nation can live alone. It's often been insisted that Hitler's early success in Russia was due to the fact that nobody wanted to fight and die for Stalin. They fought and died for the homeland. Aren't we seeing a repeat in Iraq? Nobody wanted to fight and die for Saddam Hussein but their families and communities were another matter. That's why I question the current policy, the Axis of Evil, in the Middle East. It's a failed policy under any name. Changes are needed. Without them the region will not advance and it will eventually to turmoil inside countries and between them. At these tense moments rulers learn that they are really alone in the world even the democratic ones.

What I don't understand about Islamic societies is that we in the west might find a behavior unacceptable, we by and large don't approve of extramarital affairs. We have sanctions which are applied in varying degrees. In Islamic countries it seems every unacceptable behavior is punished by death. Husbands might have the obligation to be the breadwinner but it also seems he is given the right of life and death over his family. Perhaps I am just too western but a father who is literally entitled to kill his daughters if they do nat marry as he wants, kill his wife or beat his children to the stage of being crippled is getting a lot of power in exchange for doing what any husband in the west is expected to do.
A woman is entitled to privacy in the west. The woman decides what privacy she wants and insists upon. In an islamic country it isn't privacy that is given to a woman but segregation. She doesn't decide how private she wants to be, if she wants to cover her face, her hands, hair etc but rather the enforcement of the most puritanical in the community is applied to a woman. She can be beaten for allowing her ankle to show in public, in some places for allowing her face to be seen. It isn't privacy she is allowed but total segregation, we have a local muslim family which literally will not speak to those who are not muslim. I am a fourth grade teacher who has had little boys tell me you can't tell me what to do, you are a woman. I called in his parents for help and the father said we do not believe in women teaching boys. His wife wispered to me you are going to hell. We don't have any male fourth grade teachers in our small district. I see only a distain for women, men having absolute power over women. In the holiest of muslim countries women are not allowed to drive which makes a mockery of the idea that women can work if they choose. They are not even allowed out of the home if the husband says no. The theory is always great, it is stated as if women have choices. I just don't see it. If God made men and women equally why does one gender have the right to putative honor killings.

It is apparent that the commenting Muslims are not going to address the historic problems with their religion i.e. Mohammed, an illiterate, hallucinating Arab, had embellishing/hallucinating scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the Koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

This agenda continues as shown by the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers , the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers , the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani koranics, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases and the Filipino koranics.

Apparently these commenting Muslims are also afraid of Islamic reprisals since they never give any suggestions for changes to the Koran. So let us start the process for them.

Part 1 of the "cleansing".

"The 77 Branches of Faith is a collection compiled by Imam Bayhaqi. In it, he explains the essential virtues that reflect true faith (iman) through related Qur’anic verses and Prophetic sayings." i.e. a nice summary of the Koran and Islamic beliefs.

"30 qualities are connected to the heart"
(five at a time)

"1. Belief in Allah"

No problem but "aka as God, Yahweh, Zeus, Jehovah, Mother Nature, etc." should be added.

"2. To believe that everything other than Allah was non-existent. Thereafter, Allah Most High created these things and subsequently they came into existence."

No problem but evolution and the Big Bang cannot be ignored and the "akas" for Allah should be included.

"3. To believe in the existence of angels."

A major item to delete. Angels/devils are the mythical creations of ancient civilizations, e.g. Hittites, to explain/define natural events, contacts with their gods, big birds, sudden winds, protectors during the dark nights, etc. No "pretty/ugly wingy thingies" ever visited or talked to Mohammed, Jesus, Mary or Joseph or Joe Smith. Today we would classify angels as fairies and "tinker bells". Modern devils are classified as the demons of the demented.

"4. To believe that all the heavenly books that were sent to the different prophets are true. However, apart from the Quran, all other books are not valid anymore."

Another major item to delete. There are no books written in Heaven just as there are no angels to write/publish/distribute them. The Koran, OT, NT etc. are simply books written by humans for humans.

Prophets were invented by ancient scribes typically to keep the uneducated masses in line. Today we call them fortune tellers.

Prophecies are also invalidated by the natural/God/Allah gifts of Free Will and Future.

"5. To believe that all the prophets are true. However, we are commanded to follow the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) alone."

Mohammed spent thirty days fasting in a cave before his first contact with Allah aka God etc. via a "pretty wingy thingy". Common sense demands a deletion of #5. #5 is also the major source of Islamic violence i.e. turning Mohammed's "fast, hunger-driven" hallucinations into horrible reality for unbelievers.

And I just love being in a country where I can list these important items for world peace without the fear of Islamic death squads.

If only more contemporary Muslims were to insist on Ms Kavakci's reinterpretations of Islam.

Jihad: the vast majority of the great Muslim scholars of the past use the term to refer to military conflict. The collections of fatwas of the most authoritative scholars were organized by topic, jihad usually being one of the major sections. Performing jihad is indeed incumbent on all Muslims as individuals (as fard `ayn) when the war is defensive in nature; but the community as a whole is obliged (as fard kifaya) to perform jihad to compel non-Muslims to accept Muslim government (in the case of non-Muslim monotheists), to convert to Islam (in the case of pagans), or to be subject to death or enslavement. Modern governments have claimed to fulfill the fard kifaya bit, but they find themselves often flummoxed in the case of recent wars that seem to many so patently defensive. One of the reasons the jihadis have been persuasive is that their position on the issue is so arguably "correct", i.e., well-grounded in the most authoritative sources. Wishing away those aspects of shari`a law that don't jibe with with modern sensibilities will do little to reform it. Hard to see how one can insist on any role for the shari`a in public affairs without confronting these discomforting realities.

Other comments here have addressed the question of women's rights well. There is no reason why an Islamic feminism can't be developed out of the Qur'an and hadith. But no modern Muslim scholar has shown us how to challenge the vast edifice of shari`a law that has developed around the issue without challenging the shari`a itself. This is not just a question of different conceptions of freedom. The hurdle is the clear-cut legal inferiority of women as owners and heirs of property, as claimants and witnesses in court, and as candidates for religious office, including judgeships. The radicals have made asute use of this apparent contradiction in their appeals to insecure and hypocrisy-detesting young men.

All this is not to say that Islam demands that Muslims be dhimmi-subjugating woman-dominating automata: Ms Kavakci is a fine example why this isn't so. But as long as the big questions go quietly unaddressed or quickly skipped over the radicals will continue to make a pretty persuasive case.

Dr Kavakci is obfuscating. The issues are very clear. Is or isn't it true that a woman's statement in a Sharia court is worth half that of a man's? If that is true - then no matter where else the Quran says what - women are not equal in an Islamic society.

I did not understand at all the author's statements re apostasy and so on. But if Muslims can be openly (and perhaps even rightly) proud that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, why is it illegal in nearly all Islamic countries (not merely in Afghanistan but in ``liberal'' Malayasia!) for
Muslims to convert to other religions?

The issues are no longer what the author states. NonMuslim countries _will_ ask the following question: if Saudi Arabia can finance the construction of a mosque in Rotterdam, can the Dutch Christians construct a church in Jeddah?

The above are not to say that the Bush administrations approach to Islam is anything but stupid. Progressives in the west are not with Bush, but yes we are deeply disturbed by the faihtful Muslims' conviction that theirs is the one completely true faith.

ASAK.
Dr. I would like to thank you for posting Such a good article . The Need of the hour is we need more people like u to come forward and remove the misconceptions what the western media has created regarding ISLAM . Like 2 hear more from you in future. may allah bless u.

DTL- is it interesting that you chose today to speak of secularism in turkey.

their elections were today.

47% of theparliament voted for the party that wants to allow , well for instance, women to wear hijab in government buidlings in their capacity as public servants.

youre right,the generals went overboard in their efforts to eradicate islam turkey completely.

here is a small excerpt about the sister kavakci's experiences-

you tell me-
is freedom one way?

"Merve Kavakci is no ordinary person. She has memorised the noble Qur'an, is a qualified computer scientist, and was head of the Women's Commission of the now-banned Refah Party. Not unaccustomed to difficulties, Sister Kavakci was forced to abandon her medical studies at Ankara University because Turkey's secular rulers believe that a woman's head-covering prevents her from acquiring knowledge. She migrated with her parents to the US to study computer science. Her parents, too, have suffered the Kemalists' wrath. Her mother was fired from her position as professor at Ataturk University because she refused to remove her hijab. Merve's father, Yusuf Ziya Kavakci, was dean of Islamic studies at the university until he was forced to resign because he supported the right of women to wear hijab."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

can you believe that?

forced to quit med school because head scarves preventknowledge?

her mother, a professor, forced to quit?
her father, DEAN of a college- forced to resign?

because they chose to practice their religion as members of a society?

but the people of turkey have expressed themselves.

they are a democracy- not an autocracy-

although secularists would like to (and have) force their beliefs on the entire country- the people themselves have declared their intention to continue as both spiritual and political beings.

interesting, isnt it?

we are in the process of watching turkey try to find a balance between an idealized and ossified (lets face it, nationalist fascist mentality)
which has not served the needs of its people and is going the way of all fossils.

well, as much as people try to cite ludicrous caricatures of oppressed and fearful muslim women, cowering under the misogynist hands of patriarchal domination-

the truth is, that we are exchanging these pleasantries at the impetus of a woman who's been elected to parliament- and a voice for her sisters (who, ironically, are being oppressed by the domineering generals and secularists who tell them how to dress! and make it impossible for these same women to educate themselves and become really free members of society!)

its an enlightening drama being played out before our very eyes, which also happens to dispel the silly stereotypes perpetuated on the american public.

there are simply too many WRONG ideas being posed here as representative of islam to bother refuting.

suffice to say- the purpose of these boards is to promote knowledge and understanding.

if some are driven by xenophobic fears and wish to spew them forth- thats their right-

thats the beauty of free speech-

but its really about intention-

are we here to find common grounds and learn from each other?

i wouldnt ask osama bin laden to describe christianity to me-
and i wont tell thomas friedman how to practice judaism either.

let people define themselves

we are quite capable and clearly, this is one muslim woman who expresses herself quite freely.

Many muslim women in western and western influenced societies express themself well. It is funny though in Saudia Arabia, Yemen, Pakistan, the Palestenian territories, Iran, Egypt, and the Gulf states women seem to be very quiet. We won't even speak in Afganistan where it was a sin to wear shoes that might make enough noise for a man to hear. I keep hearing that muslim women don't have to work but if they do their money is all theirs. No thanks, I don't have to work as a western woman either. I choose to, I share my money with my family because I love them and we all cooperate as a family. My husband has no legal right to my money. Of course I can work because I can drive to work, I can interact with men on a professional basis. In many muslim countries women can also work and they can keep their own money. I don't see much difference except in all the wester world women have the choice but not in all the muslem world. What are the comparative literacy rates for men and women in the muslim world between men and women. Of course there are intelligent articulate muslim women. But I wish they would look at the actual treatment of women in parts of the muslim world. It will be interesting to see what the female literacy rate in Turkey will be with the Islamist in charge. Didn't do the girls of Afganistan much good educationally

Ms. Kavacki,

I heard about your story which made headlines in late 90's when you entered Turkish Parliament with your decision to exercise your democratic right to wear your headscarf on your own free will.

Militant secularist politicians seized the moment to lash out at you and create a riot.

You peacefully and gracefully left after making your point on how hostile patriarchal and backward even some "secular" and supposed "democratic" countries can be.

You are a brave Muslim woman a perfect example of what true courage is, unlike the Islam-bashing hero of the neocons Ms. Hirsi Ali.

You are greatly admired and cherished, and your words abut jihad and woman's rights need to be studied by many Muslims and non-Muslims alike.

What about 6 year old Aisha ? what happened to her RIGHTS when the 52 year old "Prophet" desired to marry her ?

Asalam Alaikum Sister,

May Allah (God) thank you for your comments on the subjects at hand. It would seem that some people simply wish to argue and not understand. Allah (God) knows best!

Ben said, "How can a religion that preaches peace and is against suicide allow so many of its members warp it's teachings and have such irrational thoughts?"

The following video, "Islam: Religion or Cult?", might give a clue (assuming, of course, that YouTube hasn't removed the video):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LemVKjC4ts

The film focuses on Muhammad's life and actions. About 10 minutes in length, I think.

I don't find my previous comment addressed. Here it is again:

I have a question about Point 3 above.

Is the following information correct, and how literally do Muslims take that information?

The majority of the population of hell is female. Also, nobody is more deficient in intelligence and religion than a woman.
(Burkhari, vol. I, no. 28; Burkhari, vol. I, no. 301; Burkahari, vol. I, no. 161)

I'd really appreciate a response.

Thank you in advance.

Victoria:

I am still young: but I've always wondered how sane people bought into Hitler and the Nazi doctrine. I've watched his speeches -they are full of bigotry and hatred mixed with false promises for those who follow him. Who in their right mind would buy into this as a noble cause? Do you think it was brainwashing or do you think they so want what has been promised they are willing to turn a blind eye to the evil journey in hopes of reaching their desired goals?

my grandmothers family moved from france to germany before she was born, so my blood is french, but the family was a family of 12 on a farm. and as far as i understood, we were german.

grandma came to america in the early 1900s when she was 15 with her 2 brothers- when the war broke out, her radio was taken out of her house.
both my great uncles fought for america in WWII.

but my other uncle will, the educated civil engineer, ended up fighting as a pilot for the luftwaffe-
he had to make a decision that haunted him until he died an old old amn in vanouver british columbia.

he had a wife and 2 young children at the time-
he had a bright future to protect and his life before him.

he was asked to join the nazi party.
with all that he had to lose, i dont think anyone could blame him for joining.

but his conscience would not allow him to do so.

i do not know many men who would make such a sacrifice for the sake of an ideal, for doing the right thing, do you?

its an extraordinary decision- he never again in his life saw his wife- and only was able to see his son when he was grown with children of his own.

they stayed in east germany and he traveled to over 80 countries in his lifetime- but could never visit them until very late in his life. he never met his daughter again.

tragic, isnt it?

my father raised us children showing us a big book of photos with pictures of the dead jewish people and the starving incarcerated in the concentration camps.
to inculcate in us a sense of the insanity that people can be led into.

to this day, out of respect - i always refer to the followers of judaism as the jewish people, never simply jews- to make sure the respect is automatically dignified.

i dont quite understand how you can put the nazi regime and nobility in the same sentence.

i think the hatred spewed viciously by hitler met with the ugly bigotry and prejudice that was already in peoples hearts.

how could such a message resonate in any soul that held even one atoms weight of nobility?

any who encounts evil for one nanosecond- recognizes it for what it is, and is repulsed by it if they are a good human.

i think the very suggestion that one could be brainwashed into repeatedly enacting and enabling such a filthy program- is ridiculous in the extreme.

the desired goal of what?
greed? power to abuse other humans?

these are certainly despicable goals.

but after all- this is a forum to speak of islam.

i am so disgusted that i have never been able to sit through even 5 minutes of the filth poured out by hitler, let alone watch several speeches.

dont watch such garbage in the future, it will pollute your mind.

pick up the qu'ran and learn about true nobility.

this is an odd and strange question that really has no place here.

i answered because i respect any inquiry and respond to people out of acknowledgement of their queries.

i will assume your motives were of the most innocent kind, and since you are still young- will humor this kind of question.

but only this once.

there is a danger that one might make some sort of false and incongruous comparison- and such a notion is not logical or fluent.

peace

I am a Muslim. But actually I am Muslim because I born in Muslim family. Right now the way Islam has been portrayed, I would not have embraced it if I were not already Muslim. I wonder when I read Islam is fastest growling religion. I just wonder, how?

Islam is a religion and it has many interpretations and sects. Islamic culture is a dynamic, it is changing and it will be changing continuously.

Muslim are human beings, greedy, stupid and intelligent. Muslim are evil and saints. They are just human being with good and bad nature and nurture. You could not say if Muslim blows himself up or commit horrible crime, it is because of Islamic culture or Islamic belief system. It is just human nature to be good, bad and ugly.

Prophet Muhammad was human being, the only difference being he was selected to be a messenger by God. You may find flaw in his opinions or life according to your thinking and understanding but Quran is not his product, it is message through very deep mystery and the delivery or manifestation of it was flawless. Someone suggested that scriber was hallucinating. There is no beauty, order and truth in madness, if you’re an artist, musician you’ll know what I mean. Islam and Islamic culture is not recent phenomenon but rather time tested religion and culture.

How it is being interpret is again depends on who is interpreting it. Islam as religion looks harsh but its beauty is in living it. It is like that medicine, which taste bitter but it cleanses our hearts and minds so we can accept peace and love of God. (Read Rumi). But I must warn you that many Muslim really either go extremes or are just hypocrites, again common human flaw.

What Muslim terrorist are doing is what they will be doing irrespective of whether they’re Muslim or believer of any religion or system. They are violent, they are confused, angry, psychotic, brainwashed and etc. It is nothing to do with Islam rather it is to do with their and their leaders perception of the world. They are suffering, they are sick, like KKK or any other religious fanatics.

We all know what communist did under Stalin or Nazis did under Hitler. It is not much difference what some Muslims are doing under Bin Ladin or other violent Mullah.

Islamic law has problems, Muslims will be defending it but truth is it has problems compared to Western society. The sense of Justice in West and Muslim world is different. Muslim women are not equal to Muslim men, period. But it doesn’t mean Muslim man is superior to Muslim woman rather it just mean God has granted leadership role to Man. I don’t see anything wrong in that, through evolution Men are more fit for leadership roles than woman but again there can be exceptions and Islamic history has these exceptions where women ruled briefly.

I must comment here one more thing, apart from difference in sense of Justice, there is one great difference that is in west people are free to choose what they want. They’re free to drink to death or abused themselves to extremes or become saint like Mother Teresa. In Islamic world you should not be seen abusing yourself, though you can abuse yourself to hell in private, in public you have to be sober. And at the same time you should not be caught committing the crime in private also. The reason being, Islam inherently understands the power of influence and it deters bad influences forcefully. Here some countries go extremes, example being Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan under Talibans.

If you rape or commit adultery you are punished very gravely, may be by death depending on, again the residing Judge and witnesses. But imagine your daughter is raped or your son murdered and you have opportunity to punish the culprit, what would you do? Choices
1. Kill the culprit
2. Put him in Jail for some period or for life
3. Forgive him

If you have a daughter and then you know what you will pick.

Punishment for apostasy is a real challenge for Muslim scholar. Because at one hand Muslims are preaching Islam and accepting converts and at other hand Islamic law punish apostasy with death. I am not a scholar so I will not dwelt in to it but my perspective on this is, if a Muslim truly finds a religion that he thinks is better than Islam then he should either migrate for it to a place he can practice it or challenge the Islamic state and invoke help from his new God and test his faith. May be by his death a new religion will come in to existence or millions of people will embrace new religion or may be whole country will embrace his new faith. But I don’t see this happening. You reverse western law and declare apostasy with dead sentence. I will not be surprise if people are dieing to embrace Islam, because this already happened during Prophet’s time.

I am really awed by this particular law, Islam and Muslims have great confidence in their religion and I hardly see it in Christians or Hindus or other philosophy (though Socrates did it).

I know most westerners could not digest Shar’iat or Islamic laws and I myself being a Muslim find it difficult to comprehend but you must understand even though Shar’iat is final, Judge can make it lenient based on situation of crime and even can pardon some crimes. There is this story, where one Muslim woman comes to Prophet saying she has committed adultery and he just ignores her and asks her to leave. But she comes again and admits her crime and then he asks her whether she is pregnant, when she nods, he ask her to come after giving birth and he ask her to wean the child and finally she comes back and then he let her have her punishment, “stone to death”.

There is different punishment for adultery based on person age and marital status. Islamic laws and Islamic Judges are not blood thirsty but rather strict when they have to be and lenient when they should be.

If you read Muslim literature you will find during Islamic rules people did commit adultery and all kind of wrong things, which should have been punished. Simply there were no witnesses, in other words if you want to commit adultery, you should be smart enough not to get caught in the act and if you are caught and you’re married, boy you are dead man walking.

Though all said and read, I don’t want be under Islamic shar’iat (Saudies or Taliban) right now, because I just don’t see any true Islamic country around. J

I am sorry for posting it thrice. It was a mistake and not intended

-Moh

islam is a religion that demands all of its adherents read the qu'ran themselves and come to their own understanding.

there is no pope to calcify into mindless dogma for the muslim.

all must approach it freshly and using their own intelligence.

this confuses many people, who feel the need for a hiearchal "last word"

some see it as a sign of disunity and repeatedly call for some set of set in stone "rules" they can get their teeth into.

the last poster, although he is my brother i can disagree with him and i can still be a muslim and he can still be a muslim.

this is from a panelist here and is more succinct and eloquent than i can present it

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"In Islam, women are equal to men in all senses, in front of God and the law. It was Prophet Muhammad who taught the world, fourteen centuries ago, that ‘all people are equal like the tooth of the comb’. The difference between the ‘Islamic’ and ‘western’ male-female equality is a difference of culture, even though it is often misunderstood to be a difference in principles and rights. One example: Muslim women view modesty and respect in terms of a certain style of dress. This specific style is not a sort of discrimination against Muslim women, but rather a view of a common human and universal value, which is modesty, in their own way."

Posted by Amr Khaled on July 24, 2007

a salaamu alaikum brother mohammed

1. on jihad- as a Cherokee Indian woman who adheres to my people's traditional culture, I was taught that there are 7 characteristics of a mature human being: honesty, generosity, compassion, wisdom, courage, loyalty/ faithfulness, and humility. All of these must be practiced equally so that one remians in balance with Creator and creation. This takes a great deal of self-discipline and self-sacrifice day in and day out. The community and family takes precedence over the individual, and individual wants must be put aside for the needs of the group. At no time should any person cause harm to others except when defending oneself or others against a direct assault by another person intent on doing harm, and only as much as is needed to stop the attack. The acts of suicide bombers and terrorists- regardless of creed- is an abhorent act of hatred and spiritual immaturity. No one who truly seeks to walk with the Creator would justify committing mayhem and murder.

2. on religious practice- to Native Americans, regardless of tribal tradition(and we do not have the concept of secular in our traditional cultures), religious practice is a private relationship between The Creator and the person and not to be judged by others. One is free to believe or change belief as one is led. While each tribe has its own ceremonies and belief systems, and times of corporate prayer and participation, the common practice is in the hands of each person as he or she seeks relationship with the Creator in daily life. While tribes, or even clans and bands within tribes fought each other over territory, trade, or because we didn't like each other, we never fought over religious beliefs. We consider that to be insulting to the Creator, who gave each people the Way he wanted them to relate to Him. It is interference in His business and it just isn't done.

3. on men's and women's rights- most Native American cultures are traditionally matrilineal, matrilocal, and matriarchal; one is born to the mother's tribe, clan/band, and bloodline, the man marries into the woman's family and the home and children are hers, and the clan matriarchs were traditionally the highest social/political power. Traditional Native men value the wisdom of the women and seek their counsel as equals in all aspects of life. Likewise, traditional women value that of the men.

Yes, men and women do have different roles in the family and community, and in traditional Native American cultures, these are clearly defined so that neither trespasses upon the other. There are very strict protocols governing male/female relationships and interactions so that we can all live in peace with each other, but it all boils down to treating each other with the utmost deference and respect. In all things, men and women alike have the freedom to choose their own path, and neither has the right to obstruct the other.

Men are the providers and protectors. They are the shield between the community and whatever there is out there which would cause harm. A husband is to look out for his wife and children, provide for them to the best of his ability, and remember that they are blessings in his life.

Women are the life-givers, the mothers of the people, and managers of the community resources. We look after everyone and see to to that things get done. Since the home belongs to the wife, it is her responsibility to make it an oasis for her family, a place where everyone feels welcomed.

In traditional times the men had to ask our permission to go to war, and since we were trained as warriors as well as the men, we often fought alongside them. It should be noted that while the male warriors were feared, it was the female warriors who usually inspired the deepest terror in our enemies.

A female captive was not the property of the men who stole them, but under the jurisdiction of the women of his tribe. No man was allowed to rape or abuse a woman taken captive unless he was ready to pay a heavy penalty for usurping the women's authority. Male captives likewise were under jurisdiction of the women, who decided their fates. And unlike in most Old World cultures, there is no shame upon a woman who has been raped nor dishonor upon her family; rather it is the rapist upon whom shame, judgment, and punishment falls... usually at the hands of the woman and her female relatives(even today).

Culture is a human thing, and just as every human being has strengths and weaknesses, talents and ineptitudes, virtues and faults, so too does each culture. The strongest people and cultures are those which are open enough to examine how others do things, see what is beneficial and adapt that into one's own while eschewing that which is not of benefit. A mature person or culture also respects that others do things differently without rancor or taking offense, and responds to insults with grace and forgiveness.

It is to greater benefit of us all to talk face to face one with another, with intelligence and reason. Even if we disagree upon this or that, we can still treat each other with respect, compassion, and brotherly- or sisterly- love. I find it fun to learn about others, and enjoy sharing with people. In learning about others, we learn more about everything including ourselves.

1. on jihad- as a Cherokee Indian woman who adheres to my people's traditional culture, I was taught that there are 7 characteristics of a mature human being: honesty, generosity, compassion, wisdom, courage, loyalty/ faithfulness, and humility. All of these must be practiced equally so that one remians in balance with Creator and creation. This takes a great deal of self-discipline and self-sacrifice day in and day out. The community and family takes precedence over the individual, and individual wants must be put aside for the needs of the group. At no time should any person cause harm to others except when defending oneself or others against a direct assault by another person intent on doing harm, and only as much as is needed to stop the attack. The acts of suicide bombers and terrorists- regardless of creed- is an abhorent act of hatred and spiritual immaturity. No one who truly seeks to walk with the Creator would justify committing mayhem and murder.

2. on religious practice- to Native Americans, regardless of tribal tradition(and we do not have the concept of secular in our traditional cultures), religious practice is a private relationship between The Creator and the person and not to be judged by others. One is free to believe or change belief as one is led. While each tribe has its own ceremonies and belief systems, and times of corporate prayer and participation, the common practice is in the hands of each person as he or she seeks relationship with the Creator in daily life. While tribes, or even clans and bands within tribes fought each other over territory, trade, or because we didn't like each other, we never fought over religious beliefs. We consider that to be insulting to the Creator, who gave each people the Way he wanted them to relate to Him. It is interference in His business and it just isn't done.

3. on men's and women's rights- most Native American cultures are traditionally matrilineal, matrilocal, and matriarchal; one is born to the mother's tribe, clan/band, and bloodline, the man marries into the woman's family and the home and children are hers, and the clan matriarchs were traditionally the highest social/political power. Traditional Native men value the wisdom of the women and seek their counsel as equals in all aspects of life. Likewise, traditional women value that of the men.

Yes, men and women do have different roles in the family and community, and in traditional Native American cultures, these are clearly defined so that neither trespasses upon the other. There are very strict protocols governing male/female relationships and interactions so that we can all live in peace with each other, but it all boils down to treating each other with the utmost deference and respect. In all things, men and women alike have the freedom to choose their own path, and neither has the right to obstruct the other.

Men are the providers and protectors. They are the shield between the community and whatever there is out there which would cause harm. A husband is to look out for his wife and children, provide for them to the best of his ability, and remember that they are blessings in his life.

Women are the life-givers, the mothers of the people, and managers of the community resources. We look after everyone and see to to that things get done. Since the home belongs to the wife, it is her responsibility to make it an oasis for her family, a place where everyone feels welcomed.

In traditional times the men had to ask our permission to go to war, and since we were trained as warriors as well as the men, we often fought alongside them. It should be noted that while the male warriors were feared, it was the female warriors who usually inspired the deepest terror in our enemies.

A female captive was not the property of the men who stole them, but under the jurisdiction of the women of his tribe. No man was allowed to rape or abuse a woman taken captive unless he was ready to pay a heavy penalty for usurping the women's authority. Male captives likewise were under jurisdiction of the women, who decided their fates. And unlike in most Old World cultures, there is no shame upon a woman who has been raped nor dishonor upon her family; rather it is the rapist upon whom shame, judgment, and punishment falls... usually at the hands of the woman and her female relatives(even today).

Culture is a human thing, and just as every human being has strengths and weaknesses, talents and ineptitudes, virtues and faults, so too does each culture. The strongest people and cultures are those which are open enough to examine how others do things, see what is beneficial and adapt that into one's own while eschewing that which is not of benefit. A mature person or culture also respects that others do things differently without rancor or taking offense, and responds to insults with grace and forgiveness.

It is to greater benefit of us all to talk face to face one with another, with intelligence and reason. Even if we disagree upon this or that, we can still treat each other with respect, compassion, and brotherly- or sisterly- love. I find it fun to learn about others, and enjoy sharing with people. In learning about others, we learn more about everything including ourselves.

Why the Quran is the book of God?
Simply because today science says so.
For example, in the Qur'an, God explained how humans embryo grow inside the mother (with details), how a human, 1500 years ago know such sound knowledge? We know that he did not have scanning equipments.

Verily We created man from a product of wet earth; (23:12) Then placed him as a drop (of seed) in a safe lodging; (13) Then fashioned We the drop a clot, then fashioned We the clot a little lump, then fashioned We the little lump bones, then clothed the bones with flesh, and then produced it as another creation. So blessed be Allah, the Best of creators! (14) Then lo! after that ye surely die. (15)

O mankind! if ye are in doubt concerning the Resurrection, then lo! We have created you from dust, then from a drop of seed, then from a clot, then from a little lump of flesh shapely and shapeless, that We may make (it) clear for you. And We cause what We will to remain in the wombs for an appointed time, and afterward We bring you forth as infants, then (give you growth) that ye attain your full strength. And among you there is he who dieth (young), and among you there is he who is brought back to the most abject time of life, so that, after knowledge, he knoweth naught. And thou (Muhammad) seest the earth barren, but when We send down water thereon, it doth thrill and swell and put forth every lovely kind (of growth). (22:5)

How did mohamed know that the sun and the moon float in an ORBIT

And He it is Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. They float, each in an orbit. (21:33)
It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor doth the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit. (36:40)

How did he know about the big bang, and water is the source of life.

Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were of one piece, then We parted them, and we made every living thing of water? Will they not then believe? (21:30)
And after that He rounded the earth, (79:30)

How Mohamed knew, 1400 years ago, that we will be flying through the sky using The ENERGY (With authority).

[55.33] O assembly of the jinn and the men! If you are able to pass through the regions of the heavens and the earth, then pass through; you cannot pass through but with authority.

Why the Quran is the book of God?
Simply because today science says so.
For example, in the Qur'an, God explained how humans embryo grow inside the mother (with details), how a human, 1500 years ago know such sound knowledge? We know that he did not have scanning equipments.

Verily We created man from a product of wet earth; (23:12) Then placed him as a drop (of seed) in a safe lodging; (13) Then fashioned We the drop a clot, then fashioned We the clot a little lump, then fashioned We the little lump bones, then clothed the bones with flesh, and then produced it as another creation. So blessed be Allah, the Best of creators! (14) Then lo! after that ye surely die. (15)

O mankind! if ye are in doubt concerning the Resurrection, then lo! We have created you from dust, then from a drop of seed, then from a clot, then from a little lump of flesh shapely and shapeless, that We may make (it) clear for you. And We cause what We will to remain in the wombs for an appointed time, and afterward We bring you forth as infants, then (give you growth) that ye attain your full strength. And among you there is he who dieth (young), and among you there is he who is brought back to the most abject time of life, so that, after knowledge, he knoweth naught. And thou (Muhammad) seest the earth barren, but when We send down water thereon, it doth thrill and swell and put forth every lovely kind (of growth). (22:5)

How did mohamed know that the sun and the moon float in an ORBIT

And He it is Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. They float, each in an orbit. (21:33)
It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor doth the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit. (36:40)

How did he know about the big bang, and water is the source of life.

Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were of one piece, then We parted them, and we made every living thing of water? Will they not then believe? (21:30)
And after that He rounded the earth, (79:30)

How Mohamed knew, 1400 years ago, that we will be flying through the sky using The ENERGY (With authority).

[55.33] O assembly of the jinn and the men! If you are able to pass through the regions of the heavens and the earth, then pass through; you cannot pass through but with authority.

merve no turk politica

I'm surprised that the Washington Post enlisted only one woman to testify about Islam rather than four to testify jointly. Now even the most ignorant male poster (such as myself) can overrule all of your proclamations regarding your religion with a simple, "I call b.s." Four-warned is four-armed for next time.

the thing ı would like to say is that although I do not support what she said about islamic beliefs I m agree with her thoughts that any kınd of war and violence and other stuff were forbidden by islam and islam covers all kind of thoughts ,beliefs and people.

the thing ı would like to say is that although I do not support what she said about islamic beliefs I m agree with her thoughts that any kind of war and violence and other stuff were forbidden by islam and islam covers all kind of thoughts ,beliefs and people.