First of all, you're article and response is greatly appreciated. JazakAllah khair. Its interesting to read your erudite responses to the same "hot button" questions.

I really wish Mr. Meachem and Ms. Quinn asked about the faith's relationship with science, or spirituality of the mystics like Rabia of Basra or Jalaludeen Rumi of Afghanistan.

For salvation and hereafter after doing good works is the penultimate goal of all devout and religious Muslims.

Well done Mr. Muzzafar. I hope Newsweek and WaPo continues with these series, albeit keeping an eye on virulent anti-Islamism on many of these blog pages...as sadly I've seen.

It is important to know that the real reasons westerners hate Islam are hidden. Islam reminds them that their own Christian religious tradition came from the semitic East. All that they hate in Christianity -- its tyrannical god, its rigidities, its messianic fanaticism, its disdain for this world -- comes from the Middle East. When it encounters Islam it realizes that it is very close to it and that makes it hateful and wanting to kill. European man does not like the domination of semitic religion under which he has been forced to live and die.

Analysis of the Qur'an is no more impressive than would be Pat Roberts analysis of the New Testament. It's how it's put into practice that counts, and on this score, the Muslim world could just as well throw out the Qur'ans and just do whatever propels them to dominance and wealth.

Dear Mr. Muzaffar,

You said: "the struggle for gender equality will not --- and should not---lead to a situation where the enhancement of the position of the woman results in the decline of the family or the erosion of the moral foundation of society...It should not be sacrificed at the altar of the self-serving interests of the husband or the wife..."

I absolutely agree with you. You hit it right on the mark. There ought to be a balance between the two. Going to extremes either way is not progressive. JazakAllahKhair.

Islam as a religion and how the followers inerpret and extrapolate?
Religious identity when taken to boundaries that are divided geographically rallies round loyalty factor.And extrapolating it into politicoeconomic issues can raise up the emotions.There comes up misuse by the wily and scheming figureheads.Then polarisation takes place 'you are with me or the others? 'Herd instincts and brainwashing are not new. They come in handy for those who attempt to portray their agenda.And dividing geographics based on religious following will tantamount to wearing a footwear of a smaller size and alter your feet.

Islam as a religion and how the followers inerpret and extrapolate?
Religious identity when taken to boundaries that are divided geographically rallies round loyalty factor.And extrapolating it into politicoeconomic issues can raise up the emotions.There comes up misuse by the wily and scheming figureheads.Then polarisation takes place 'you are with me or the others? 'Herd instincts and brainwashing are not new. They come in handy for those who attempt to portray their agenda.And dividing geographics based on religious following will tantamount to wearing a footwear of a smaller size and alter your feet.

The issue of violence in Islam is of prime importance. Just as important, however, is the issue of the foundation of Islam and for that matter the foundations of all contemporay religions.

Here is a synopsis repeated many times but rarely addressed especially by Muslim commentators. Here is your chance once again. A realistic acceptance of the historical foundations of these religions would go a long way in eliminating the violence in each.

1. Abraham founder/father of three major religions was probably a mythical character. If he was real, he was at best a combination of at least three men. 1.5 million Conservative Jews and their rabbis have relegated Abraham to the myth pile along with most if not all the OT.

2. Jesus, the illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter possibly suffering from hallucinations, has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth. Analyses of his life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists)via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian/Jewish/Pagan sects.

3. Mohammed, an illiterate, hallucinating Arab, also had embellishing/hallucinating scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the Koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.
This agenda continues as shown by the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers , the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers , the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani koranics, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases and the Filipino koranics.

4. Luther, Calvin, Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley et al, founders of Christian-based religions, also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingy thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

5. Hinduism (from an online Hindu site) - "Hinduism cannot be described as an organized religion. It is not founded by any individual. Hinduism is God centred and therefore one can call Hinduism as founded by God, because the answer to the question ‘Who is behind the eternal principles and who makes them work?’ will have to be ‘Cosmic power, Divine power, God’"
The caste/laborer system and cow worship are problems when saying a fair and rational God founded Hinduism."

6. Buddhism- "Buddhism began in India about 500 years before the birth of Christ. The people living at that time had become disillusioned with certain beliefs of Hinduism including the caste system, which had grown extremely complex. The number of outcasts (those who did not belong to any particular caste) was continuing to grow."

"However, in Buddhism, like so many other religions, fanciful stories arose concerning events in the life of the founder, Siddhartha Gautama (fifth century B.C.):"

Archaeological discoveries have proved, beyond a doubt, his historical character, but apart from the legends we know very little about the circumstances of his life.

http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/BUDDHISM/SIDD.HTM

Bottom line: There are many good ways of living but be aware of the hallucinations/embellishments and myths surrounding the founders of said rules of life.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus for an analysis of Jesus' life to include his illiteracy.

Hate to rock your World there Mr. Muzaffar, but if you want to play the "Lands" game, I'm READY!

Islam does not understand the word "Compromise". Nor, do they get much use out of "Tolerance", "Yield", "Convert", or anything else that would be viewed as a "Capitulation".

To imply that Islam should ever conceed anything, is viewed by Ilamists as the justifiable threat for your continuing violence!

Hate to break this to you, But, at the time of the Romans and Jesus, THERE WERE ZERO MUSLIM LANDS! ALL LANDS OCCUPIED BY ISLAM HAVE BEEN STOLEN BY THEM!!!!!

Israel took Muslim Lands? GET REAL! They Took BACK THEIR LANDS!!!!

Muslims should stop their ILLEGAL occupation of Mecca and every other land THEY TOOK!

Even Christians are an older society! Hebrews and Hindu's are much older! It is US who should be demanding YOU get out!

Hi! I'm RAT!

Bet you weren't ready for THAT!

If Muslims don't learn to behave they need to be expelled from western countries.

Azhar’s Scholars in Egypt
In his book, "Jurisprudence in Muhammad’s Biography", the Azhar scholar, Dr. Muhammad Sa’id Ramadan al-Buti says the following (page 134, 7th edition):
"The Holy War, as it is known in Islamic Jurisprudence, is basically an offensive war. This is the duty of Muslims in every age when the needed military power becomes available to them. This is the phase in which the meaning of Holy War has taken its final form. Thus the apostle of God said: ‘I was commanded to fight the people until they believe in God and his message ..."’

The punishment for changing from Muslim to any other religion in Saudi Arabia is death. The justification for it is when one of Mohammed's followers abandoned Islam Mohammed said "Nick his neck."

There is no tolerance for apostates or nonbelievers in Islam. To state otherwise is to deceive yourself.

Three sisters were found stabbed to death in the Gaza Strip on Sunday, raising suspicion they were killed by relatives because of suspected immoral behavior, a human rights organization said.

The three sisters, 16-year-old Nahed Hija and her sisters, 19-year-old Suha and 22-year-old Lina, were found dead from multiple stab wounds, buried in a shallow grave in the central Gaza Strip early Sunday morning, said Hamdi Shakkour of the Palestinian Center for Human Rights.

Shakkour said they suspected the women were victims of "honor crimes," in which women are murdered by male relatives because of suspected intimate relations - not necessarily sex - outside of marriage.

The Hamas force that polices the Gaza Strip said in a statement it was investigating the deaths.

Honor killings are practiced throughout the Arab world. At least 12 women were killed for honor crimes in the West Bank and Gaza Strip last year, but this is the first time three sisters were murdered together.

In February, three unrelated woman were killed within a 24-hour period in the Gaza Strip.

At the time, there were concerns that vigilante moral groups were behind the killings.

The Palestinian judiciary does not take "honor crimes" seriously, Shakkour said. Perpetrators of "honor crimes" are often given light sentences of a few years, while others convicted of murder under other circumstances are sentenced to death.

Koran 9:5

Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Al-Shawkani
Suyuti in his book استنباط التنزيل (Istenbat al tanzeel) says: “Every thing in the Qur'an about forgiveness is abrogated by verse 9:5.” Al-Shawkani in his book السيل الجرار (Alsaylu Jarar 4:518-519) says: “Islam is unanimous about fighting the unbelievers and forcing them to Islam or submitting and paying Jiziah (special tax paid only by Christians or Jews) or being killed. [The verses] about forgiving them are abrogated unanimously by the obligation of fighting in any case.”
Please note that I am not telling Muslims which verses to follow and which not. As I said earlier, I believe 100% in an individual’s right to choose his or her beliefs. However, what I am saying is that according to the Islamic doctrine of abrogation, these verses are null and void. They are contradicted by later verses, and in Islam it is the later verses which must be followed today.

Muslims need to renounce the Koran and the Haddiths because they teach Muslims to take over the world but any means necessary. Islam is inherently violent and until all the politically correct talking heads figure this out we will be under constant attack.
Most Muslims know that they can play to all the politically correct politicians and media types so they selectively quote koran verses and Haddiths that appear to speak of peace. As demonstrated above all peace verses which there are very few have been superseded by Koran 9:5. This is the war verse. Muhammad said it himself. He said:
"I have been ordered by God to fight with people till they bear testimony to the fact that there is no God but Allah and that Mohammed is his messenger, and that they establish prayer and pay Zakat (money). If they do it, their blood and their property are safe from me" (see Bukhari Vol. I, p. 13).
This is amazing considering we have armies of politicians and media types running around acting as though they are experts on Islam and saying that Islam is a "religion of peace." These claims contradict Muhammad's words and actions. They contradict the history of Islam (Turkey and the Middle East and parts of Africa were all conquered by the sword of the prophet and his followers). They contradict the actions of Muslims around the world. Almost everywhere Islam rules there are intolerance, murder, and war. It is amazing to me that the media can have a front seat to all this violence and yet tow the politically correct line. They wear politically correct glasses and are blinded to the truth that is playing out right before them. Most of our politicians and media zealots are blind guides and are helping usher in the death of the West.
CNN, MSNBC, FOX, CNN International, etc. have all become apologist channels for Islam. I have heard news anchors on each one of these networks support the lie that Islam is a religion of peace.

After I stopped laughing at the twisted way you described Islam I read further. The comments impressed me so much I feel there may be hope for the world against Islam.
Do you realize that your last paragraph concerning the rights of women could have been written by what was in the early 20th century a chauvinistic majority of men who were spoiled for centuries in the west by their ability to tell women what to do when and how and give no reason. Even now some males think the family values fell apart as women came into their own doing jobs that men thought they couldn't do starting careers and finally they are on their way to becoming all they can be. You are great at twisting all your facts I'll give you that. Your rationalization is as shameless as it is chauvinistic. Your insinuation that women would be selfish to want to be more than your concubine, mother for your children as well as accept your lazy muslim attitudes and then feel you have the right to beat them whenever it suits you is preposterous. If you had an honest bone in your body you would admit women are not only able to do 99.9 % of what a man does they do it without having to be made to feel guilty or having to be asked. Muslims have had life by the balls for 1400 years and still you can't see anything as it is.
And your reason for genital mutilation is that Muslims aren't the only ones performing these atrocities. Again you should be ashamed of your logic. And why would anybody have to vilify or malign the muslim religion.? The Crusades you blame for this. That is sick and twisted. Stop trying to rewrite history. If it wasn't for the Crusades " as horrible as they were " the whole world would be Muslim and we would still be killing each other just as Muslims have always done within their own people. Muslims have a sick twisted mentality that allows them to somehow find logic in their reasoning for always fighting over something. There is no living in peace with Muslims as long as the only choice for non-believers is conversion subjugation or death.
And as someone before me pointed out you are the invaders of these lands you say you are fighting over. Thank you for your time

After I stopped laughing at the twisted way you described Islam I read further. The comments impressed me so much I feel there may be hope for the world against Islam.
Do you realize that your last paragraph concerning the rights of women could have been written by what was in the early 20th century a chauvinistic majority of men who were spoiled for centuries in the west by their ability to tell women what to do when and how and give no reason. Even now some males think the family values fell apart as women came into their own doing jobs that men thought they couldn't do starting careers and finally they are on their way to becoming all they can be. You are great at twisting all your facts I'll give you that. Your rationalization is as shameless as it is chauvinistic. Your insinuation that women would be selfish to want to be more than your concubine, mother for your children as well as accept your lazy muslim attitudes and then feel you have the right to beat them whenever it suits you is preposterous. If you had an honest bone in your body you would admit women are not only able to do 99.9 % of what a man does they do it without having to be made to feel guilty or having to be asked. they will work most men to death even though the male may be the physically stronger of the two. Muslims have had life by the balls for 1400 years and still you can't see anything as it is.
And your reason for genital mutilation is that Muslims aren't the only ones performing these atrocities. Again you should be ashamed of your logic. And why would anybody have to vilify or malign the muslim religion.? The Crusades you blame for this. That is sick and twisted. Stop trying to rewrite history. If it wasn't for the Crusades " as horrible as they were " the whole world would be Muslim and we would still be killing each other just as Muslims have always done within their own people. Muslims have a sick twisted mentality that allows them to somehow find logic in their reasoning for always fighting over something. It's the logic of children but lethal! There is no living in peace with Muslims as long as the only choice for non-believers is conversion subjugation or death.
And as someone before me pointed out you are the invaders of these lands you say you are fighting over. Learn to live equally with someone for a change instead of having to negotiate through strength. Only then will Muslims as a religion grow to a more humble and respected state. Thank you for your time

Dear Muzaffar:

I am very aware of the misconceptions and prejudices of people in North America to Islam, I was a student of Islamic studies and I enjoyed it very much. But as I am a member of the Baha'i Faith, which you probably know, is being persecuted in Iran. The Supreme Court of Egypt has not allowed the small Baha'i community of Egypt to register their religion on their identity cards or have their marriages registered or are legally allowed to form councils, known as Spiritual Assembies, as their is no clergy in the Faith. The Faith was banned by Nasser in the 1960's there. Now I have recently heard of the Muslim Network for Baha'i Rights, and Muslim Youth for Baha'i Rights, which greatly pleases me. Muslims and Baha'is may not have theological agreements but we should share a common respect. I have met many kind Muslims who have been very gracious to me, even as I am a Baha'i, and I appericate that. Do you have anything to say on the discrimination, persecution and oppression of the Baha'i community in much of the Muslim Middle East?
In common service for good deeds,
John M. Gruda

It is apparent that the commenting Muslims are not going to address the historic problems with their religion i.e. Mohammed, an illiterate, hallucinating Arab, had embellishing/hallucinating scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the Koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

This agenda continues as shown by the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers , the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers , the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani koranics, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases and the Filipino koranics.

Apparently these commenting Muslims are also afraid of Islamic reprisals since they never give any suggestions for changes to the Koran. So let us start the process for them.

Part 1 of the "cleansing".

"The 77 Branches of Faith is a collection compiled by Imam Bayhaqi. In it, he explains the essential virtues that reflect true faith (iman) through related Qur’anic verses and Prophetic sayings." i.e. a nice summary of the Koran and Islamic beliefs.

"30 qualities are connected to the heart"
(five at a time)

"1. Belief in Allah"

No problem but "aka as God, Yahweh, Zeus, Jehovah, Mother Nature, etc." should be added.

"2. To believe that everything other than Allah was non-existent. Thereafter, Allah Most High created these things and subsequently they came into existence."

No problem but evolution and the Big Bang cannot be ignored and the "akas" for Allah should be included.

"3. To believe in the existence of angels."

A major item to delete. Angels/devils are the mythical creations of ancient civilizations, e.g. Hittites, to explain/define natural events, contacts with their gods, big birds, sudden winds, protectors during the dark nights, etc. No "pretty/ugly wingy thingies" ever visited or talked to Mohammed, Jesus, Mary or Joseph or Joe Smith. Today we would classify angels as fairies and "tinker bells". Modern devils are classified as the demons of the demented.

"4. To believe that all the heavenly books that were sent to the different prophets are true. However, apart from the Quran, all other books are not valid anymore."

Another major item to delete. There are no books written in Heaven just as there are no angels to write/publish/distribute them. The Koran, OT, NT etc. are simply books written by humans for humans.

Prophets were invented by ancient scribes typically to keep the uneducated masses in line. Today we call them fortune tellers.

Prophecies are also invalidated by the natural/God/Allah gifts of Free Will and Future.

"5. To believe that all the prophets are true. However, we are commanded to follow the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) alone."

Mohammed spent thirty days fasting in a hot cave before his first contact with Allah aka God etc. via a "pretty wingy thingy". Common sense demands a deletion of #5. #5 is also the major source of Islamic violence i.e. turning Mohammed's "fast, hunger-driven" hallucinations into horrible reality for unbelievers.

And I just love being in a country where I can list these important items for world peace without the fear of Islamic death squads.

YOU SAID THE TRUTH BUT UNFORTUNATELY STILL MANY CAN'T SEE THE LIGHT. THEY ARE FATHERS OF IGNORANT.

YOU SAID THE TRUTH BUT UNFORTUNATELY STILL MANY CAN'T SEE THE LIGHT. THEY ARE FATHERS OF IGNORANT.

YOU SAID THE TRUTH BUT UNFORTUNATELY STILL MANY CAN'T SEE THE LIGHT. THEY ARE FATHERS OF IGNORANT.

Wherever Muslims are a minority they want democracy.
They want their right to wear the hijab, to worship in their own manner etc. etc.

Wherever they are a majority they want the rule of the Sharia (recent counterexample in Turkey notwithstanding - the situation in Turkey was close!).

Mr Muzaffar: can a Muslim convert to any other religion in Malayasia? How many people are in prison for blasphemy in Pakistan? Why were the Muslim countries largely silent when Mullah Omar and his gang destroyed the Bamian Buddhas (in fact the destruction of Buddhist and Hindu relics had been by then going on for years in Afghanistan)

I would like to comment on one question that by all standards is not applicable to Islam and should not be asked, at least in the form asked in this forum. Unlike other religions Islam is a complete code of life therefore the question of a muslim to be given PERMISSION to change his creed does not arise. In christianity or any religion that entails the practitioner selects time and way of prcticing the faith that question may be relevant as by its composition it suggests the law giver has made it optional. In other words when a person has choice(s) amongst one or more options within a particular question its only logical that that individual be given a right(whether apparent or not) to answer or not. In christianity and other faiths like it you may decide (in fact you are advice) to practice the faith only at home as the religion is personal but in Islam all of your life is govern by the devine dos and don'ts so why should the law giver gives permission to opt out? It will be (to me) a contradiction in concept! Therefore i submit that this particular question is irrelevant to Islam. Yes a muslim may decide on his/her own to live Islam afterall nobody forces him/her in the first place to join. But that person after checking out should mind his/her own business in the new found faith not to pertake in any undertaking to undermine Islam cos this will mean committing treason which in effedct will warrant death even by the western govt. standards. I rest my case.

Now I understand completely. It's everyone else's fault - the U.S. the West, Christians, and Jews. Thank you for clearing that up for me. When are Muslims going to take some respsonsibility? I have come to the conclusion that Islam and the Constitution of the United States are incompatible and cannot coexist.

After I stopped laughing at the twisted way you described Islam I read further. The comments impressed me so much I feel there may be hope for the world against Islam.
Do you realize that your last paragraph concerning the rights of women could have been written by what was in the early 20th century a chauvinistic majority of men who were spoiled for centuries in the west by their ability to tell women what to do when and how and give no reason. Even now some males think the family values fell apart as women came into their own doing jobs that men thought they couldn't do starting careers and finally they are on their way to becoming all they can be. You are great at twisting all your facts I'll give you that. Your rationalization is as shameless as it is chauvinistic. Your insinuation that women would be selfish to want to be more than your concubine, mother for your children as well as accept your lazy muslim attitudes and then feel you have the right to beat them whenever it suits you is preposterous. If you had an honest bone in your body you would admit women are not only able to do 99.9 % of what a man does they do it without having to be made to feel guilty or having to be asked. they will work most men to death even though the male may be the physically stronger of the two. Muslims have had life by the balls for 1400 years and still you can't see anything as it is.
And your reason for genital mutilation is that Muslims aren't the only ones performing these atrocities. Again you should be ashamed of your logic. And why would anybody have to vilify or malign the muslim religion.? The Crusades you blame for this. That is sick and twisted. Stop trying to rewrite history. If it wasn't for the Crusades " as horrible as they were " the whole world would be Muslim and we would still be killing each other just as Muslims have always done within their own people. Muslims have a sick twisted mentality that allows them to somehow find logic in their reasoning for always fighting over something. It's the logic of children but lethal! There is no living in peace with Muslims as long as the only choice for non-believers is conversion subjugation or death.
And as someone before me pointed out you are the invaders of these lands you say you are fighting over. Learn to live equally with someone for a change instead of having to negotiate through strength. Only then will Muslims as a religion grow to a more humble and respected state. Thank you for your time

Mr. Muzaffar can say whatever he wants to say as to apostasy not being a crime, and being rolerant of other religions. These may be true in theory, but in practice, it is perceived that Islam is the most intolerant of other religions.

I will not respond to his gratuitous dig at oppression of Muslims in Kashmir. I will only ask him to look at the religious tolerance and diversity in India vis-a-vis that in Pakistan.

""There is no compulsion in religion"(2:256) is one of the best known Qur'anic lines."

Is that from the Meccan or the Medinan verse?

And don't the Medinan verses abrogate the Meccan verses?

Mr. Muzaffar,
You said: "This Quranic approach to apostasy is consistent with its general tone and tenor which respects freedom of conscience and freedom of religion. "There is no compulsion in religion"(2:256) is one of the best known Qur'anic lines. This means that no one should be coerced to join the religion or to remain in it or to leave the religion. The Qur'an also makes that profound observation: "To you your religion and to me mine". (109:6)."

I see that you are from Malaysia, Mr. Muzaffar. Would you mind explaining your position on the story

http://www.metimes.com/print.php?StoryID=20070531-080035-1100r ?

Malaysian woman criticizes court in religious row
By AFP

Published May 31, 2007

The woman at the center of a religious controversy in Malaysia has accused the country's highest court of denying her fundamental rights in rejecting her bid to be legally recognized as Christian, her lawyer confirmed Thursday.

Lina Joy's comments came a day after Malaysia's Federal Court rejected her attempt to win recognition of her conversion from Islam.

Joy, 43, had sought the removal of the word "Islam" from her national identity card.

But the Federal Court, the highest secular legal body, threw out her case and said that only an Islamic Sharia tribunal could legally certify her conversion.

"I am disappointed that the Federal Court is not able to vindicate a simple but important fundamental right that exists in all persons," she said, according to her lawyer, Benjamin Dawson.

Joy was referring to the right to believe in the religion of one's choice, and the right to marry a person of one's choosing.

She cannot legally marry her Christian partner because Malaysian law requires non-Muslims to convert to Islam to wed a Muslim.

"The Federal Court has not only denied me that right but to all Malaysians who value fundamental freedoms," Joy said. "I am hoping that my case would have made a difference to the development of constitutional issues in the plight of many others."

Dawson said that he and Joy were considering their next move but the options were very limited.

He declined to reveal Joy's whereabouts, saying that she just wanted to be left alone.

While a coalition of Muslim groups welcomed the verdict, rights activists said that the court had failed to address concerns over religious freedom in the country.

A member of parliament for the Chinese-based Democratic Action Party (DAP), Teresa Kok, called for a constitutional amendment that would make explicit the civil courts' superiority over Sharia courts in all matters.

Islam is Malaysia's official religion. More than 60 percent of the nation's 27 million people are Muslim Malays.

But while the constitution defines the ethnic majority Malays as Muslims it also guarantees freedom of religion. The country's minority Chinese and Indians are mostly Buddhists, Hindus, or Christians.

Joy's appeal to the Federal Court centered on whether she must go to a Sharia court to have her renunciation recognized before authorities delete the word "Islam" from her identity card.

In his verdict, the chief justice said that the National Registration Department (NRD), in charge of issuing identity cards, had the right to demand that the Sharia court certify Joy's conversion.

But the only non-Muslim judge on the three-member judicial panel disagreed.

Judge Richard Malanjum said that the NRD's demand was "discriminatory and unconstitutional," and it was unreasonable to expect a person to "self-incriminate" herself before a Sharia court.

Renouncing the faith is one of the gravest sins in Islam.

The court's verdict comes amid mounting racial and religious tensions in multiracial Malaysia, where minority religious groups fear their rights are being undermined, even though the country is traditionally seen as moderate.

-------------------------------

I would add that words do not speak louder than actions. Nevertheless, I'd like some of your words specific to the case of Lina Joy.

Mr. Muzaffar,
You said: "This Quranic approach to apostasy is consistent with its general tone and tenor which respects freedom of conscience and freedom of religion. "There is no compulsion in religion"(2:256) is one of the best known Qur'anic lines. This means that no one should be coerced to join the religion or to remain in it or to leave the religion. The Qur'an also makes that profound observation: "To you your religion and to me mine". (109:6)."

I see that you are from Malaysia, Mr. Muzaffar. Would you mind explaining your position on the story

http://www.metimes.com/print.php?StoryID=20070531-080035-1100r ?

Malaysian woman criticizes court in religious row
By AFP

Published May 31, 2007

The woman at the center of a religious controversy in Malaysia has accused the country's highest court of denying her fundamental rights in rejecting her bid to be legally recognized as Christian, her lawyer confirmed Thursday.

Lina Joy's comments came a day after Malaysia's Federal Court rejected her attempt to win recognition of her conversion from Islam.

Joy, 43, had sought the removal of the word "Islam" from her national identity card.

But the Federal Court, the highest secular legal body, threw out her case and said that only an Islamic Sharia tribunal could legally certify her conversion.

"I am disappointed that the Federal Court is not able to vindicate a simple but important fundamental right that exists in all persons," she said, according to her lawyer, Benjamin Dawson.

Joy was referring to the right to believe in the religion of one's choice, and the right to marry a person of one's choosing.

She cannot legally marry her Christian partner because Malaysian law requires non-Muslims to convert to Islam to wed a Muslim.

"The Federal Court has not only denied me that right but to all Malaysians who value fundamental freedoms," Joy said. "I am hoping that my case would have made a difference to the development of constitutional issues in the plight of many others."

Dawson said that he and Joy were considering their next move but the options were very limited.

He declined to reveal Joy's whereabouts, saying that she just wanted to be left alone.

While a coalition of Muslim groups welcomed the verdict, rights activists said that the court had failed to address concerns over religious freedom in the country.

A member of parliament for the Chinese-based Democratic Action Party (DAP), Teresa Kok, called for a constitutional amendment that would make explicit the civil courts' superiority over Sharia courts in all matters.

Islam is Malaysia's official religion. More than 60 percent of the nation's 27 million people are Muslim Malays.

But while the constitution defines the ethnic majority Malays as Muslims it also guarantees freedom of religion. The country's minority Chinese and Indians are mostly Buddhists, Hindus, or Christians.

Joy's appeal to the Federal Court centered on whether she must go to a Sharia court to have her renunciation recognized before authorities delete the word "Islam" from her identity card.

In his verdict, the chief justice said that the National Registration Department (NRD), in charge of issuing identity cards, had the right to demand that the Sharia court certify Joy's conversion.

But the only non-Muslim judge on the three-member judicial panel disagreed.

Judge Richard Malanjum said that the NRD's demand was "discriminatory and unconstitutional," and it was unreasonable to expect a person to "self-incriminate" herself before a Sharia court.

Renouncing the faith is one of the gravest sins in Islam.

The court's verdict comes amid mounting racial and religious tensions in multiracial Malaysia, where minority religious groups fear their rights are being undermined, even though the country is traditionally seen as moderate.

-------------------------------

I would add that words do not speak louder than actions. Nevertheless, I'd like some of your words specific to the case of Lina Joy.

Indeed Islam has no relation with the sucide attacks on innocent peoples.

The word "Islam" is derived (made) from the word "Silm" means "Peace". The peace "Silm" of Islam is not restricted to any special comunity at all. It covers all of the creatures even the dogs and cats etc.

There is a verse (sentense) in Quran says " Do not kill any life without right. It means to not kill even any insect if it is not harmful to you. It does not means if some thing is harmful you must kill it. What it means is; killing of any life is allowed if otherwise your own life is in danger.

There is one more verse (Sentense) in Quran says " Who killed a single human being without any right, he killed all the human beings". In the context of the said verse (sense of Quran)the single life of man or women is equavalant of all human beings.

It should must be noted that as per Quranic view there is no different between the life of Muslim and Christian and Jews and Hidus. The life of all Human beings are same in value. Therefore, it did not differ between them while talking about killing of life in the above said verses.

Actually, as per Islamic point view of the univers; the whole univers is between the fingers of Allah (God). If He wish, He can convert all the human being to his choosed religion either Islam, Christianity or Judaism. But He wishes to leave the human beings to use their mind and differentiate between truth and fals. Otherwise the Judjment day will be useless.

As He left the choice of right religion on human beings, there are many religions in the world. Allthough every body says that his religion is right and all other is wrong, Obviously, there will be only one right religion and others wrong. There is no doubt in this fact also that Allah (God) knows which is the right religion.

Even though Allah (God) is not restricting the Air, Water, Sun and other facilities to only believers in right religion. All of His facilities is common and free to all of His creatures and not only for human beings.

Then who gives the militants the right to kill the innocent peoples? No body only Satan misguiding them. Therefore, The Islam or the Muslims should be blamed at all for minlitancy of few dozens peoples. Otherwise, the Christianity and Christains should must accept the responsibility and feel guilty of Killings of innocent poeples from Hitlor to G. W. Bush. all over the world.

These days, the killings of innocent peoples is not only the problem of this univers. The offence against humanity is not limited to killing only.

All of our American and Europian friends should take in notice that Millions of peoples are droven from their houses, stolen out their lands, their mothers and fathers had been killed for no sin, no guilty, those are starving and dying for food out of shelter under sky. If the Christinity allow these all cruality against human beings? Never.

So, we should understand the reality of on going politics in this world and should never blame any religion or any comunity.

This not the problem of religion. Actually this is the the problem of Humanity. No body will agree to kill himself as a sucide bomber if he will be enjoying the life like others. The life is beloved to everybody. The life of killer and killed one is same in value. Indeed the circumstances of the inbalanced world is forcing them kill themselves.

The powerful countries especially America and Allies is never fighting for religion (Christianity) but for more power and to be continue in power. The Chritianity is itself Victim of this bling contest of power. The peoples made themselves free from relgious ritual & practices. The Churches are empty of worshippers. The modern civilization is threat to not any particular religion but the Christianity is victim of it more than any other religion. The Christianity has been defamed because of it.

Thanks to the readers

After internalising some of usual shocks that we non-Muslims experience while reading the intellectual floor exercises that our "moderate" Islamists routinely perform on behalf of jihad,I stopped short at this sentence:
"War is permissible only if the purpose is to repel aggression or to end oppression".
So, I am relieved that the Islamic conquests of India between the 10th and 18th centuries was a violation of Islam.
Now, in the coming days, will Mr Chandra Muzaffar, write an article condemning the Hindu genocide that resulted in at least 30 million deaths and many times that number being sold in slavery?
Of course he won't. Now, later in the article under review, he says: "Of course, Muslims are aware of other injustices -- such as the oppression of the people of Chechnya and Kashmir -- but at this juncture, Muslim anger is directed mainly at the US and Israeli governments."
The inclusion of Kashmir in his list of areas justifying "Muslim anger" confirms how unrepentent he can be. The history of Islamic aggression in Jammu and Kashmir during the 14th Century is totally denied by him. He also glosses over the mass murder and rape of the Hindus of Srinagar in the late 1980s. Today, hundreds of thousands of them are living like refugees all over India and it is not poltically correct to point out their victimhood.
This hypocrisy and deceit will be resisted. If there is a "solidarity" of Muslims, then, Mr Chandra, there is an alliance of the victims of Islam as well.

I am familiar with the characterization of Islam presented here. Overall, it is very logical, reasonable.

My question regards "jihad." The definition is partially defined here as fighting in defense, or against oppressors on behalf of someone else. I can only conclude that this means that all of the people of North Africa, Spain, southern France, Persia, etc. needed to be liberated from oppressors in the 7th century A.D., hence the arrival of the Muslim armies.

Would this be the correct interpretation of that? This has puzzled me for a long time.

I am familiar with the characterization of Islam presented here. Overall, it is very logical, reasonable.

My question regards "jihad." The term is partially defined here as fighting in defense, or against oppressors on behalf of someone else. I can only conclude that this means that all of the people of North Africa, Spain, southern France, Persia, etc. needed to be liberated from oppressors in the 7th century A.D., hence the arrival of the Muslim armies.

Would this be the correct interpretation of that? This has puzzled me for a long time.

Oppression of the Kashmiri Muslims???? And my friend what about the Kashmiri Hindus who were booted out of their motherland? Don't classify Kashmir by religion, both Hindus and Muslims have suffered there thanks to Pakistan's terror tactics. And yes, the Kashmiri pundits are refugees in their own country. Now tell me whose plight is worse.

Mr. Muzaffar does not speak for Islam on jihad - or any other teaching for that matter.

Islam consciously does not have an official authority that determines or decides doctrine, dogma and interpretation.

The above is only his view; and, unfortunately, a great many muslims interpret jihad and the Quran quite different.

Mr. Muzaffar does not speak for Islam on jihad - or any other teaching for that matter.

Islam consciously does not have an official authority that determines or decides doctrine, dogma and interpretation.

So the article's theme: "What does Islam sanction..." is misleading. Islam as a single hierarchical organization that can sanction does not exist.

Therefore, the above is only Muzaffar's view; of even less import than that of Bin Laden, Ali Khamenei, al-Zarqawi, Abd-al-Wahhab, et al who view of Islamic jihad "sanctions" the murder of innocents.

Like so many, Chandra Muzaffar refuses to acknowledge the truth of his religion's scriptures:

Quran Quotables on tolerance of other religions:
2:191 And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.

4:89 They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them

5:45 Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are wrong-doers.

9:5 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

9:123 O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him).

47:4 Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks until, when ye have routed them, then making fast of bonds; and afterward either grace or ransom till the war lay down its burdens. That (is the ordinance). And those who are slain in the way of Allah, He rendereth not their actions vain.

58:20 Lo! those who oppose Allah and His messenger, they will be among the lowest.

...and by the way there are literally *hundreds* of passages that indicate non-Muslims will suffer painfully in hell (these pepperings are one of the many reasons that the Quran is a virtually unreadable mishmash of repetitive gobbledegook. Really. Beyond all else, it's just horribly bad from a literary perspective. You'd hope god & his prophets would be better writers.) One might argue that such statements are "neutral" on the subject of tolerance in the current life, but it certainly doesn't help to build cross-religion empathy.

Come on, people! We need to start looking at religion with a more critical eye. The three Abrahamic religions are centered on scripture written by goat herders for goat herders. We have outgrown them all. They retard our civilization's growth--quite dangerously, I might add.

Like so many, Chandra Muzaffar refuses to acknowledge the truth of his religion's scriptures:

Quran Quotables on tolerance of other religions:
2:191 And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.

4:89 They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them

5:45 Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are wrong-doers.

9:5 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

9:123 O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him).

47:4 Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks until, when ye have routed them, then making fast of bonds; and afterward either grace or ransom till the war lay down its burdens. That (is the ordinance). And those who are slain in the way of Allah, He rendereth not their actions vain.

58:20 Lo! those who oppose Allah and His messenger, they will be among the lowest.

...and by the way there are literally *hundreds* of passages that indicate non-Muslims will suffer painfully in hell (these pepperings are one of the many reasons that the Quran is a virtually unreadable mishmash of repetitive gobbledegook. Really. Beyond all else, it's just horribly bad from a literary perspective. You'd hope god & his prophets would be better writers.) One might argue that such statements are "neutral" on the subject of tolerance in the current life, but it certainly doesn't help to build cross-religion empathy.

Come on, people! We need to start looking at religion with a more critical eye. The three Abrahamic religions are centered on scripture written by goat herders for goat herders. We have outgrown them all. They retard our civilization's growth--quite dangerously, I might add.

Like so many, Chandra Muzaffar refuses to acknowledge the truth of his religion's scriptures:

Quran Quotables on tolerance of other religions:
2:191 And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.

4:89 They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them

5:45 Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are wrong-doers.

9:5 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

9:123 O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him).

47:4 Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks until, when ye have routed them, then making fast of bonds; and afterward either grace or ransom till the war lay down its burdens. That (is the ordinance). And those who are slain in the way of Allah, He rendereth not their actions vain.

58:20 Lo! those who oppose Allah and His messenger, they will be among the lowest.

...and by the way there are literally *hundreds* of passages that indicate non-Muslims will suffer painfully in hell (these pepperings are one of the many reasons that the Quran is a virtually unreadable mishmash of repetitive gobbledegook. Really. Beyond all else, it's just horribly bad from a literary perspective. You'd hope god & his prophets would be better writers.) One might argue that such statements are "neutral" on the subject of tolerance in the current life, but it certainly doesn't help to build cross-religion empathy.

Come on, people! We need to start looking at religion with a more critical eye. The three Abrahamic religions are centered on scripture written by goat herders for goat herders. We have outgrown them all. They retard our civilization's growth--quite dangerously, I might add.

Like so many, Chandra Muzaffar refuses to acknowledge the truth of his religion's scriptures:

Quran Quotables on tolerance of other religions:
2:191 And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.

4:89 They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them

5:45 Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are wrong-doers.

9:5 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

9:123 O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him).

47:4 Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks until, when ye have routed them, then making fast of bonds; and afterward either grace or ransom till the war lay down its burdens. That (is the ordinance). And those who are slain in the way of Allah, He rendereth not their actions vain.

58:20 Lo! those who oppose Allah and His messenger, they will be among the lowest.

...and by the way there are literally *hundreds* of passages that indicate non-Muslims will suffer painfully in hell (these pepperings are one of the many reasons that the Quran is a virtually unreadable mishmash of repetitive gobbledegook. Really. Beyond all else, it's just horribly bad from a literary perspective. You'd hope god & his prophets would be better writers.) One might argue that such statements are "neutral" on the subject of tolerance in the current life, but it certainly doesn't help to build cross-religion empathy.

Come on, people! We need to start looking at religion with a more critical eye. The three Abrahamic religions are centered on scripture written by goat herders for goat herders. We have outgrown them all. They retard our civilization's growth--quite dangerously, I might add.

Sura 2:256 "Let there be no compulsion in religion" was superceded by the Sword Verses (the Ayat al-Sayf) under the doctrine of Abrogation (nasikh) which state:

8.39 So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief of non-Muslims) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone in the whole world.

9.5 Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.

9.29 Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the Jizyah (protection tax) in submission.

Saudi Sheikh Muhammad Saalih al-Munajid, speaking specifically of Sura 2:256, said "the Ayat al-Sayf (the Verse of the Sword) and similar verses abrogate those saying that there is no compulsion to become a Muslim."

Sura 2:256 "Let there be no compulsion in religion" was superceded by the Sword Verses (the Ayat al-Sayf) under the doctrine of Abrogation (nasikh) which state:

8.39 So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief of non-Muslims) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone in the whole world.

9.5 Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.

9.29 Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the Jizyah (protection tax) in submission.

Saudi Sheikh Muhammad Saalih al-Munajid, speaking specifically of Sura 2:256, said "the Ayat al-Sayf (the Verse of the Sword) and similar verses abrogate those saying that there is no compulsion to become a Muslim."

Like so many, Chandra Muzaffar refuses to acknowledge the truth of his religion's scriptures:

Quran Quotables on tolerance of other religions:
2:191 And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.

4:89 They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them

5:45 Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are wrong-doers.

9:5 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

9:123 O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him).

47:4 Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks until, when ye have routed them, then making fast of bonds; and afterward either grace or ransom till the war lay down its burdens. That (is the ordinance). And those who are slain in the way of Allah, He rendereth not their actions vain.

58:20 Lo! those who oppose Allah and His messenger, they will be among the lowest.

...and by the way there are literally *hundreds* of passages that indicate non-Muslims will suffer painfully in hell (these pepperings are one of the many reasons that the Quran is a virtually unreadable mishmash of repetitive gobbledegook. Really. Beyond all else, it's just horribly bad from a literary perspective. You'd hope god & his prophets would be better writers.) One might argue that such statements are "neutral" on the subject of tolerance in the current life, but it certainly doesn't help to build cross-religion empathy.

Come on, people! We need to start looking at religion with a more critical eye. The three Abrahamic religions are centered on scripture written by goat herders for goat herders. We have outgrown them all. They retard our civilization's growth--quite dangerously, I might add.

I am sorry to say that what you have wriiten is not in accordance with Quran at all. Probably you should learn it more or else you are deleberately trying to mislead the public.

Quran do advocate killing of anyone who leaves islam.Its history is all about violence, subjuation and beheading. It want a "just" society where only muslims allowed to survive. All Kaffir should be killed, particularly Jews and idol worshippers.

No amount of twisting can fool others. Only those politically correct can agree with you.

I am sorry to say that what you have wriiten is not in accordance with Quran at all. Probably you should learn it more or else you are deleberately trying to mislead the public.

Quran do advocate killing of anyone who leaves islam.Its history is all about violence, subjuation and beheading. It want a "just" society where only muslims allowed to survive. All Kaffir should be killed, particularly Jews and idol worshippers.

No amount of twisting can fool others. Only those politically correct can agree with you.