If the bad things that Muslim, Christians and Jews have posted in this thread about the other religions are true, we have here a picture of how negative religion in general is for humanity. But not all written here can be true, so there are several possibilities:

1. Almost all is true (a grotesque picture of religion in general is confirmed).
2. Just part is true, say only a third (if you add the negative comments of each other religion, still is a terrifying picture of what religions in reality are).
3. All is false (what the hell is the reason to discuss so passionately and irrationally?).

What amazes more is that when attacked the most frequent defense that all major religionists have of their faith is to say “but your religion also did a similar or worst bad thing”. That is revealing.

Religion divides. The only hope is information, education and knowledge to neutralize the tribe mentality of religious beliefs. Internet is becoming the religion buster of the new century. I have learned a lot about the main religions in this thread, mostly the bad things that are not publicized by the traditional media.

If Pamela Taylor has read all posts, by now she must realize how wrong and misguided is she about her own religion. If she already new all this, she is a double face liar and have lost all respect in front of most of the participants and readers of this thread.

‎1977 Enoch Powell defends Rivers Of Blood Speech
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fw0rUJbE9k

This is terrifying, it is a WARNING from history. Powell understood exactly how politicians were betraying ordinary decent people in Britain of all races, creeds and colors and this is, exactly what is happening in Britain and America at an accelerated pace, today. The kissing has to stop. The political class has to draw a line in the sand in confronting Islamofascism and Islamonazism or the United States and Britain will end up in Civil War.

It is always useful to burn books. Putting them out of circulation once and for all frees us of the tiresome temptation of reading.

I would suggest that when bookburning ends, we move on to musical instruments. As long as they're here, someone will play them, others compose, and the rest of us will be doomed to listen.

And then there are those ever wearying paints and the artists who use them, the galleries and museums the rest of us have to visit--Ugh.

Not to mention the microscopes, petre dishes, slides, stains, test tubes, etc., resulting in this, that, or the other cure for one or the other disease that we are forced to recover from.

Probably, when the last-remaining hardcover text is incinerated, we should take our sledgehammers to the the local laboratories.

"Equally important, the Muslim world is keenly watching how America treats its Muslim population...

If we are serious about improving relations with the Muslim world, we need to start at home, with our own Muslim population.

BY PAMELA K. TAYLOR"

What if we are not serious nor at all interested in improving relations with the Muslim world Ms. Taylor? Are you also full of pious indignation over the treatment of non-Muslims in Muslim countries as well? Or are you only concerned about the treatment of followers of your slave religion in the West?

This woman's stupidity and duplicity is breathtaking. Some of us are not at all frightened by Muslims Ms. Taylor. On the contrary, some of us want to speak to the religion of peace and its followers in the only language they and you understand, and then there will be no more Islam.

If people want to protest against a belief system or religion that they find repulsive, it is absolutely their right to do so as long as it is done peacefully, even if it is in bad taste. And, this includes their right to express their opinion about Islam's book by burning it. This is their right according to the Constitution. Now, this might not be a constructive method for persuading people to see things from their point of view and it might not even be in good taste but it is their right. If Muslims are offended by the protest, then they can peacefully express that offense. Similarly, the Cordoba group in NYC has a right to build their community center/mosque near ground zero but that does not mean that people will not be offended by the action and have the right to voice their opinion. Of course, it may be advisable to consider what people in the Muslim world will think of events in the US but I hope that consideration of others would not prevent anyone from expressing their opinion. Not to mention, it appears that a great number of Muslims in countries dominated by Islam don't really care too much about the feelings of non-Muslims around the world when they ban the building of churches just about anywhere, routinely discriminate and persecute non-Muslims, and don't even allow the "dirty" non-Muslims to even enter Mecca and Medina, for example. It seems like it is just a one way street where non-Muslims have to be senstive to the Muslims but not vice-versa. I would not say that we should treat Muslims in the US they way non-Muslims are treated in the "Islamic" world, for I do believe that our system of tolerance and religious freedom is superior to their system of relgious intolerance. However, it seems like Muslims in the Muslim world are really interested in religious freedom when it deals with how Muslims are treated in the West but appear to not be too keen on religious freedom when it relates to Bahais or Christians or Hindus or Jews in Muslim countries. Just as Pamela says Muslims are aware of American bigotry, many Americans are also aware of the extremely acute and violent bigotry in the Muslim world. For my part, I don't want to burn my copy of the Quran for it is the evidence to indict Islam as a dangerous and false ideology.

""Fighting for what one believe is atavistic and in one's blood? Nature and nurture are both responsible? Or, is it nature wholly responsible? Or purely nurture fully responsible? There a violence-inducing genes? Or violence and conflicts is all just for fun for some bored chaps?

Posted by: Jihadist: ""

My people set much store by honor. Your *book* may say it's possibly OK or doesn't count to lie to us.

What do *you* say?

Your book has many escape clauses, but whatever you think your soul is, *that doesn't,* Jihadist.

As well as for Ms Taylor and American Muslims at large, yeah, yeah, we know what your book says.

What do *you* say? With no excuses before your book or any God.

What do *you* say?

That's what's important in these matters. Whether or not you think you'll get a reward for breaking honor: What does *your* honor say.

Will you swear by that, in sisterhood or brotherhood with all peoples. Or just by your own name and self. Before what Gods may be.

That's the question.

Ms. Taylor.

While in general, I'm supportive of Muslims in American legal issues, it really doesn't help your case to justify Muslims burning Russian-footnoted translations of the Koran: esecially because, at least in my view, Russian is a *terrible* language to start niggling over 'literal meanings' of text in for 'orthodoxy.'

The Russian language lacks particles: there is no a, an, or the, or even verb 'to be,' strictly speaking. If you reduce the Koran to nouns and verbs and the like, you have translation problems like a Hong Kong VCR.

But be that as it may.

I don't think much of burning books in *any* form: it may as well be a ritual embrace of ignorance, despite what may be presented as a 'book' these days.

Not to sound like our old 'friend' CCNL, it certainly *would* help if you stood for pluralism as much where Islam is dominant as you do here for America.

Don't get me wrong: If Christianists are burning books, I know damn well what that means. And in America, I'm about honor-bound to protest.

They burn Harry Potter books to 'protest' *my* religion, which is about like burning copies of 'Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom' to protest Sikhs or Hindus.

Technically-speaking, though, plenty of Muslims as well as Christians here in America use those books to defame modern Pagans, as well as waffling more than a little about those certain troubling verses that actualy seem to say you have a right to kill or subjugate *me,* (The paranoid Christians are specifically-exempted, of course, but they don't care about the rest of us, either.)

Christian Fundies dance around the same head of a pin, really, but...

Those books *do* have words that say I can be killed or enslaved freely without much clarification.

The apologetics are mostly directed toward other 'peoples of the book' and prove unsatisfying.

So.

I ask: Are you prepared, as an American Muslim to swear by our equality? Pluralism, freedom, by your name and what's most sacred to you, Koran or not?

I'll do what honor demands either way, but I dunno about the rest of these 'Merkans.' Know what I'm saying?

I do know that the difference between principles, friends, and priorities, has a lot to do with who commits to pluralism in the same way.

I know you don't go for pork, but there's a difference between 'involvement' and commitment: it's like a ham and egg breakfast: the chicken is involved, the pig is committed.

You folks committed? Even for American Pagans?

Really?

I'll take your word for as many as you can speak for.

Ahhhhh......from being Robertsonian or Gingrichian, some in this thread have become Churchillian on Islam and Muslims.

Perhaps, for some from a particular country and of a particular gene of a specific people, one can never get past the warlordism tradition of one's previous country and people in a clash of civilisation too.

Fighting for what one believe is atavistic and in one's blood? Nature and nurture are both responsible? Or, is it nature wholly responsible? Or purely nurture fully responsible? There a violence-inducing genes? Or violence and conflicts is all just for fun for some bored chaps?

Ms. Taylor says:

“While the blatant bias is surprising, I find it downright scary that opposition to the proposed mosque.”

What is scary is allowing the building of these mosques considering their primary function: breeding terrorism by preaching a totalitarian supremacist ideology that does not accept the other.

"Islam is not just a belief; it is a ... violent way of life. Islam is imbued with violence, and it encourages violence... [W]hen Westerners refrain from criticizing or questioning certain practices, certain aspects of Islam... they abandon their own values. Once they have done that, their society is lost."
--Ayaan Hirsi Ali, in "Nomad: From Islam to America: A Personal Journey through the Clash of Civilizations," 2010

"Islam in a man is as dangerous as rabies in a dog."
--Sir Winston Churchill, 1899

"Against people who are ready to die in the cause of destroying freedom, people who are not willing to speak up for freedom for fear of being called a racist or an Islamophobe don't stand much chance of victory."
--Bruce Bawer, "Surrender: Appeasing Islam, Sacrificing Freedom" 2009

I've wanted to respond to some of the comments on this thread, but with family visiting don't have time at the moment. However, I encourage everyone to participate in this event: http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/event.php?eid=138967996133677

Organize a multi-faith scriptural reading in your home town!

The Islamophobia in the comments section is overwhelming.

Posted by: muslim1908

==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

It's really impressive how many people have been terrorized by the Islamic terrorists.

Now millions of terrorized people are afraid of Islam (i.e. - "Islamophobic.").

Success.

.

Hi Deb Chatterjee,

Good to see you here, and in usual form too.

Ah, that would make me a L-I-A-R.

Cheers

The Islamophobia in the comments section is overwhelming. You just prove right every commentator that says Islamophobia is a problem. Naked, brazen bigotry.

How do you spell L-i-a-r ?

Pamela

What is this nonsense? Look at just about everywhere there is evil and destruction you will find Islam. When people have genuine concerns you call them racist and bigots (Did not know muslims were left wing liberals). There was no outcry against the acts of 9-11 committed in the name of Islam but now the Muslims are building a Mosque on what is a tomb for 3000 innocent people killed that day.And you have the guts to complain that people are upset about it.

Islam is antithetical to both feminism and progressivism.

"Muslim Feminist" makes about as much sense as "Jewish Nazi" or "Negro Klansman".

Pamela,

I believe you are just spreading falsehood on this WaPo forum. Women have few rights in Islam. And you are blocking my posts as they may be embarassing to read.

Good work Ms. Taylor. You have blocked me from posting my earlier post. Thanks for loudly proclaiming that you are a progressive American Muslim feminist.

ROTFL !

Re: Sarah Palin's us/them "True Americans" dialectic-
How many of her true Americans use witchdoctors (Bishop Thomas Muthee for instance) to purge their lives of demonic influence?

And what would be the reaction of Soap Opera Sarah's "True Americans" if someone had a Bible burning?

Oh yes, so IRONIC when other people turn around and treat Muslims the way Muslims treat everyone else.

So-o-o-o-o ironic. Wow, you would think that Muslims could co around killing and murdering innocents in the name of Islam all over the world and have nobody get offended. It's so-o-o-o ironic that anyone would notice and connect the dots.

.

This article deliberately omits the fact that Muslims have obligations, the obligation of not hurting the sensibilities of the average American by building the mosque.

The article also deliberately ignores the the Islamic apartheid imposed by Saudi Arabia in Mecca and Medina and the rest of Saudi Arabia vis-a-vis the freedom of religion is supported by mainstream Muslims.

Saudi Arabia is not just any country and Mecca and Medina are not just any cities. They are different.

For Muslims they are holy and have a special place and the building of the mosque without any vocal demands by mainstream Muslims to Saudi Arabia that non-Muslims be given full freedom of religion in that country only enhance the ill reputation that Muslims in the USA and world wide.

Additionally Mr. Rauf is on record stating that the USA was largely responsible for the 9/11 tragedy and he has refused to reveal the source of his funds, which many suspect came from Saudi Arabia. The association of this man with mosque will taint the mosque even more.

Allowing the building of the mosque will further the image of the USA as a tolerant country. But the refusal of Muslims to protest the apartheid in Saudi Arabia and their continuation of the annual pilgrimage to do the hajj while the apartheid is practiced will only serve to damage the reputation and image of Muslims even further and will only serve to brand them as a people that refuse to join the mainstream. Continuing to do the pilgrimage to apartheid Saudi Arabia is no different than being the member of a country club that has a open and stated policy of refusing to admit blacks and other minorities of color.

Note: This was meant for Mr. Eboo Patel.

Correction: ...OUR (O.ne U.niversal R.eligion) Holyi Cosmic Feeler's FAITH/BELIEF, better than a RELIGION" Story via books based on TRUTH (opposite MYTH)].

PS:

LET Pakistani's EAT URANIUM! And Afghani's (They are One Nation in Disguise) Too!

They still think [KAFIR'S] American's & Co., art Stupid; because they think they got over US (and Friendly's).

SATANIC VERSUS Lovin ELDERS of Al Taqiyah Int'l of Religio Mafios'os therein will hath their Day [A Prophecy Who's time is holyi Due-Diligent] Soon.

Secret; For Those who know; REMEMBER The "Talking In Tongues" Story? Well All That Ye See'th is Islami's Talking In Tongues" in Reality. Islami Leaderships and their Visions (NOt OUR, not Kafir) hath purposely been made stupid, like The Plague of Aegypt 1st-Born'th killing story, but this time (man made clocks) cosmically via holyi "TIME" (aka TEMPerature) or via the Holyi "EKLAH" {aka "IT" (NOt a HE nor a SHE) SOURCE-1/ECK/UNO..}.

Please see: Alternative to 'Inflation Universe' [as told in OUR(O.ne U.niversal R.eligion) Holyi Cosmic Feeler's Story books].

http://www.universetoday.com/69436/astronomy-telescope-universe-black-hole/#more-69436

WE Have a "DYNAMIC RELIGION"! How about YE/YO?

Yasser, you quoted from your citation
[Few reliable records exist of the practice before the time of the Gupta empire, approximately 400 AD. After about this time, instances of sati began to be marked by inscribed memorial stones. The earliest of these are found in Sagar, Madhya Pradesh, though the largest collections date from several centuries later, and are found in Rajasthan. These stones, called devli, or sati-stones, became shrines to the dead woman, who was treated as an object of reverence and worship. They are most common in western India.]

Please add several centuries to 4th century and we come up with what 9 to 11th century. And where were they found most in Rajasthan land of the Rajputs. When was the first advent of the muslim conquerors, guess when a few hundred years after MO. After the plundering of the nearby lands. Another citation for you vis-a-vis islamic acceleration of Sati.

http://hubpages.com/hub/Sati-system

[Practice

This system was largely practiced, due to the Muslim conquest of India. Most of the conquerors came to India, with the thought of establishing their religion & dynasty in India. And slowly, they moved onto richness of the loot of wealthy temples and monasteries, even women as slaves. To stop this, many voluntary self-immolations took place. After the death of their husbands
, even they use to kill themselves. Slowly this started to become a kind of must follow ritual. In such cases many were forced to Sati system. Even Child
marriage was encouraged.]

You also quoted me and characterized it as a slur. Lets take the case of Juwayriya and Safiyah. Isn't it true that they both were child brides of the people he conquered and their husbands were killed. What did he do with them. Didn't Juwayriya always kept him away from violating her by pretending to be deep in prayers whenever he approached her? Is this what you call slurs?

Yasser, first of all ARKNS was remarking about Ms. Taylor's claim that somehow Bollywood son & dance ritual bolster her claim that music and dance were sanctioned in Islam. ARKNS was just refuting that claim of hers. The genesis of song & dance in Bollywood is not due to islamic commendation. In fact it is due to the fact that it makes for bets seller in India. Purely commercial and due to commendation of a particular Skydaddy theology (islamic kind) So Rednova's dragging of Sati is a non-sequiter. He could have challenged ARKNS, if there is a specific islamic sanction an dthat was genesis for the song a dance routines of Bollywood, Tollywood, Kollywood, Mollywood and another dozen movie centers of India.

Now coming back to your non-sequiter continuation of the discussion, I refer you to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquest_in_the_Indian_subcontinent

I contended that Sati as a vile social custom did not come into being till the muslim conquests. While it was sporadically committed by grief stricken widows and venerated by the relatives after the fact, it became more customary during the said period, to combat the ignominy. to quote the wiki article:

"The cultural practices of jauhar and sati, practiced by some Hindu communities, arose in response to periods of threat during the Muslim conquest to prevent kidnapping or capturing of Hindu women to be married to Muslim rulers, nobles or high officials, which was then considered a holy act of jihad and occurred in significant numbers".

In the article you cited that as practice it was more prevalent in North India than in the south, especially in Rajasthan. Most of those were forced by the relatives to usurp the widows wealth etc, rather than any religious injunctions. Even in its heyday when it became a oppressive practice there were about 500 - 600 a year, less than a thousand in the country. Which goes to show that it wasn't such a routine practice. I am quite sure any given year there 100s of thousands of women were widowed for whole host of reasons. Now that it has been well established that this false issue has no legs, I think it is best you concede the point and get back to the article.

Jihadist, do you remember when the ladies went to the beauty parlor and dyed with their shoes on?

I see in the picture of those Muslim women, not only are they singing, but they're smiling, and wearing glasses, too.

I wonder if they have toes, like regular women?

(Remember the episode of "Leave it to Beaver," when Beaver's teacher, Miss Landers, came to dinner, and she wore open-toed shoes, and Beaver was shocked out of his skull to realize that HIS TEACHER, Miss Landers, had toes.)

Hi Yasseryousufi (can I call ya Joey?)

What about suicide bombing? Isn't that a modern adaptation designed to stamp out modern adaptations? Is that a oxymoron? or is it a enigma wrapped in a blanket?

Anyway, keep up the good work; don't get too outraged; it's not good for ya blood pressure.

Secular,

If wishes were horses, beggars would ride. You wish to see humor in my posts and I wish to see a bit of forthrightness and honesty in yours but i guess not all our wishes can come true.

Here's your actual slur for the benefit of readers who might not be familiar with your erroneous and ignorant posts regarding Islam/muslims.

{"The practice of terrible custom of sati was started post-islamic conquests of India. In keeping with their prophets custom of forcefully debauching the woman of the vanquished men. Sati was the way the Hindus contended with the vile and barbaric tradition of the prophet of the religion of peace."}

Now I can see you're squirming about the semantics whether all these women burnt alive were because of mistranslation of Hindu Scripture, but you still dont own up to your lies inspite of being found out consistently. Here's what you say in your last post.

{I suggest you go thrur the recorded history of Indian sub-continent and see if you find references of Sati, befor the beginning of the muslim conquests of India. Why go that far do you read in any of your Pakistani history books covering pre-islamic history any mention of Sati.}

I wont be as naive to suggest Pakistani History books to you so that you may disregard them as propaganda. You're so used to nit picking that you didn't even read the wiki link I had cited. So here it is once again for the education of yourself and your fellow islamophobes.

{Few reliable records exist of the practice before the time of the Gupta empire, approximately 400 AD. After about this time, instances of sati began to be marked by inscribed memorial stones. The earliest of these are found in Sagar, Madhya Pradesh, though the largest collections date from several centuries later, and are found in Rajasthan. These stones, called devli, or sati-stones, became shrines to the dead woman, who was treated as an object of reverence and worship. They are most common in western India.[15]

By about the 10th century sati, as understood today, was known across much of the subcontinent. It continued to occur, usually at a low frequency and with regional variations, until the early 19th century.}

If you read through the entire essay its obvious that Sati was no noble gesture or response to muslim invasion as Hindu bigots and padree's would have us belive, this started hundreds of years before Islam even existed. But Im sure you cant be convinced into recanting your false premise. Otherwise how would you be a bigot.

And no rednova didn't start this. It was your fellow hindu/indian ARKNS who was extolling false virtues of secularism in India and the worthless flicks that bollywood churns out. But you didn't have to mouth off your usual islamophobic hate speech to make an argument and I wouldn't have to go through all this.

"I have just spilled red wine on a white dog. I've tried to cover the stain in salt and have also applied white wine, but nothing seems to be working as he won't sit still long enough. What would Allah suggest in this case, as Martha Stewart is not answering my calls."

Hmmm... Sounds like the dog is... shall we say... somewhat... marinated, so perhaps...

Nah, forget that I even brought that up, that would be bad, in anybody's good book.

Archibald2, & Jihadist I thoroughly enjoyed your repartee. It heartens me that there at least few guys on his forum with some sense of humor. Yasser could well use some of it. Speaking of Yasser, I was wondering how long it would take you to jump on my case regarding Sati. It took him almost an hour, you disappointed me Yasser. I was expecting 15 mins top. Anyway as you know it matters little to me whether barbaric practices of one deluded skydaddy team tops the another skydaddy team or not. The example you cite from the Hindhu mythology, is just that, a fairy tale exalting the virtue of the fictitious character. That one was again not even in course of death of the husband. So misses the entire mark by mile and a half. If you read through the entire text of the Wiki article vedic attributions were completely erroneous and mistranslation of the preceding verse in a burial ceeremony. Which perhaps was a symbolic lying down with the corpse, etc. As in the next verse asks the widow to go home, after the ritual. None of the Hindu epics mention any such admonishments nor practices as being prevalent. The case of Madri, is more of a self inflicted punishment for knowingly alluring her husband to copulate with her, who is afflicted with the curse. So she felt that she was responsible for his homicide. Don't ask me to justify these silly superstitious curses and boons. All your religions are replete with them, any wonder why we rationalists ridicule them all? The problem with you theists is that you find the others silly beliefs silly indeed, except your, which fall under the exception clause of your version of the skydaddy.

I suggest you go thrur the recorded history of Indian sub-continent and see if you find references of Sati, befor the beginning of the muslim conquests of India. Why go that far do you read in any of your Pakistani history books covering pre-islamic history any mention of Sati. In fact isn't it true that all the Kings before then are still heroes, just like in India? The practice of sati was also limited to the Royal caste only, as the muslim marauders as the ultimate show of disrespect and subjugation would debauch teh wives of the fallen warriors. The Hindus in their stupid show of their piety started ti self-immolate. Then it became a matter of piety to require the widow to self-immolate. The prevalence was only during islamic conquets.

By the way Rednova started this stupisd thing, I should have told him that it is unrelated to the topic. Why is it with you muslims that you always resort to "see the other people do some thing worse or equally bad as us" defense time and time again. Either rationally defend your position or concede defeat and move on.

CHEERS

I am embarassed that a few of my fellow Christians are burning Qurans to antagonize our Muslim neighbors.

Agree or not with Islam, we are all equally loved by our Creator God, and we should respect that God has given each of us the freedom to choose our beliefs.

Please understand that most Christians do not think or act this way. Muslim neighbors, I am sorry that those people have done this.

I have just spilled red wine on a white dog. I've tried to cover the stain in salt and have also applied white wine, but nothing seems to be working as he won't sit still long enough. What would Allah suggest in this case, as Martha Stewart is not answering my calls.

I don't have enough red wine to bath the dog in in completely, if that makes a difference.

*******************************************

As Martha Stewart won't take your calls.......

- If you don't have enough red wine, go for the splotchy-scattered look for the dog by carefully and artfully spraying red wine on various parts of the dog.

- Use the water bottle sprayer for ironing clothes to fill with red wine for spraying on the dog.

- Your dog will win many dog beauty competitions for that red roses against white look and may start a trend for wine stained look for dogs.

- Remember, in applying that "look", you must desist from drinking the wine. The dog too must not be let to lap some wine. It may make you both slightly tipsy and you may not get the "look" you wanted on the dog.

Jihadist

I have just spilled red wine on a white dog. I've tried to cover the stain in salt and have also applied white wine, but nothing seems to be working as he won't sit still long enough. What would Allah suggest in this case, as Martha Stewart is not answering my calls.

I don't have enough red wine to bath the dog in in completely, if that makes a difference.

The Ahabisation of American Muslims seems to be led by :

- folks who really believe Obama is a Muslim, or closeted Muslim;

- anti-immigration, wall up Fortress America sorts;

- excitable and extremist evangelicals of specific faiths who want salvation from Islam, and want to save Muslims from their "false God" and "false belief";

- conspiracists who believe Americans will be dhimminuded by Muslims;

- gamblers who use American Muslims as bargaining chips in quid pro quo, tit for tat, spit for spat with the "Muslim world" or specific Muslim majority countries;

- and more, much, much more.

Let Palin, Gingrich, Robertson, Coulter, ACLJ etc lead the way......

Here's the link to Sati again,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sati_(practice)

Secular misleads,

"The practice of terrible custom of sati was started post-islamic conquests of India. In keeping with their prophets custom of forcefully debauching the woman of the vanquished men. Sati was the way the Hindus contended with the vile and barbaric tradition of the prophet of the religion of peace."

Thank God for sites like Google and Wikipedia, the shameless liars and Islamophobes can be exposed with a single click. Here's how wiki describes the inhumane hindu custom:

{The term is derived from the original name of the goddess Sati, also known as Dakshayani, who self-immolated because she was unable to bear her father Daksha's humiliation of her (living) husband Shiva. The term may also be used to refer to the widow herself. The term sati is now sometimes interpreted as "chaste woman."

Sati, Enforced Widowhood and Girl Marriage are customs that were primarily intended to solve the problem of the surplus woman and surplus man (widower) in a caste and to maintain its Endogamy.}

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/modernmuslim/2010/08/bigoted_protests_show_ignorance_and_intolerance.html#_login

See.....Islam didn't even exist when this custom was incorporated in the Hindu religion.

I notice none of the Christians care to mention the film 'Footloose' when these sort of discussions come up - never mind song, the preacher there was totally against people dancing, or even just listening to rock music. What sort of God would allow that? And I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure than family didn't have a dog either - which all seems to be a little bit too much of a coincidence if you ask me. On top of that, Kevin Bacon was clearly the Jewish bogeyman in that particular morality tale, I mean who is even called Bacon anyway? The writers knew exactly what they were doing with that one - you people are puppets.

"Muslim women are forbidden to sing"

*******************************************

Ahhhh...they must have googled up Inul Daratista on Youtube singing and gyrating to, say, "Goyang Inul". That's why they have that placard.

It must be the full moon over America with all that braying and howling, the burning of Qur'ans and interesting pickets.

I'm sending over my old Qur'ans to be burn in the bonfires of the insanities by the assorted nuts.

Oh, all right... I'll send over Playboys, Playgirls, the complete works of Dan Brown, the whole DVD series of "Sex and the City" etc to be burned along too by the huffing, puffing sorts adding to air pollution.

And I am sending over a placard saying, "Muslims love dogs" to be burned too by dog lovers even if dogs love to clamber all over and sloopily lick me. I don't know where their mouths and tongues have been.

"Could you ask him what's the best way to get a red-wine stain out of a white 50/50 silk-cotton blend shirt?"

*******************************************

Burn it.

If you can't afford to do that and buy a new shirt, soak the whole shirt in red wine.

SteadfastMuslim, interesting post. I was thoroughly amused with your post for the great exercise in totally worthless superstition. Can you imagine erasing name of allah and his angles. Look at the totally stupid ambiguous nature of that sentence. Does that include the word "allah" or the names that refer to allah. Does it mean named angles, like Jibril or just any mention of "angles"? More strict interpretation would require that each page has to be wiped out at least 10 - 12 places and what would it leave a tattered page. What do you do with the rubbings, do you collect them and dispose it along with the rest. It always amazes me that the pious get twisted in knots. Just shred them and throw the shreds into the recycling bin or just throw the damn book in a recycling bin guys, insteda of polluting the rivers, land fills, or the atmosphere.

Rednova you wrote, "If you want to fight barbaric customs in India, I suggest you start with the Hindu tradition of sati, where the widow gets burned alive along with her husband, without her wishes so she may not remarry.

Please tell me when that's eradicated and I'll believe you are serious in responding to "barbaric" practices".

Do you have any idea at all about Sati and what you are talking about. This post of your definitely betrays your utter ignorance and shows that you picked this nonsense up from few of your obscurantist islamists. The practice of terrible custom of sati was started post-islamic conquests of India. In keeping with their prophets custom of forcefully debauching the woman of the vanquished men. Sati was the way the Hindus contended with the vile and barbaric tradition of the prophet of the religion of peace. This was stopped by British back in 18th century. There have not been any such activities in the past 2 1/2 centuries. SO it is totally disingenuous, of you to raise this thing. It shows your bigotry. Just because someone pointed out some thing negative about islam, doe snot mean you have to counter it with non-existent barbarism of another people.

Hmmm......a Christian Church indulging in a burning vigil! Sounds familiar territory. Is Christianity coming full circle? Also would the pious Christian put on their hoods before doing this act to please Jesus?

SteadfastMuslim,

"And Allah knows best."

Also, where does he stand on fabric softener?

Pro? Con? Any recommendations?

DC water is pretty hard, if that makes a difference.

The site of the 911 tragedy needs neither a mosque, a church, a temple, a synagogue, or any other kind of religious symbol. There are alternatives to fundamentalist religions of all types. I want peace, enlightenment, LOVE, and HEALING at ground zero. At the site of 911 I want a monument with the words and music to this song.

"Heal the World":
In this place you'll feel
There's no hurt or sorrow.
There are ways to get there
If you care enough for the living
Make a little space, make a better place.

Chorus:
Heal the world
Make it a better place
For you and for me and the entire human race
There are people dying
If you care enough for the living
Make a better place for
You and for me.

Michael Jackson sings it better than I can write it.
Please click on the video link below (or copy and paste in into your address bar)
and read, listen, and be at Peace:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WJrtms8EoQ&f eature=related

Thank you, Michael Jackson.

SteadfastMuslim,

"And Allah knows best."

Could you ask him what's the best way to get a red-wine stain out of a white 50/50 silk-cotton blend shirt?

It may have set, if that makes a difference.

Muslims for Progressive Values has about as much right to speak for Muslims as the Qadiani's. Your support for homosexulas shows that you have a very damaged understanding of Islamic Jurisprudence and what the Qur'an and Sunnah say about the issue. We don't ignore the Qur'an and Sunnah, nor change it in order to please non-Muslims and grovel for their acceptance of us. What we must do as a minority population in the US, and the West in general, is to be good citizens, pay our taxes, obey the laws, and build community improvements for ALL people.

Concerning dog's I do know of that hadith but to my limited knowledge I don't think Muslims have ever taken that hadith to mean we simply go out and waylay dogs. Having a dog as a pet is prohibitively disliked (makruh tahriman). However, there is no harm in acquiring a hunting dog, or a guard dog to protect one’s sheep or property. [Al-Hadiyyah al-’Alaiyyah 347] And Allah knows best.

Thank you Pamela, great read.

TommyTstars, burning the flag is the apt way of disposing it, who knew it would have that in common with the Koran.

The ignorance of these supposed "tea party-ers" is indeed astounding.

As for Arkns, "we will respond forcefully if there is any attempt to implement barbaric mullah customs in a secular country like India."

Forcefully? Exactly the type of barbarism that you are supposedly fighting, right? If you want to fight barbaric customs in India, I suggest you start with the Hindu tradition of sati, where the widow gets burned alive along with her husband, without her wishes so she may not remarry.

Please tell me when that's eradicated and I'll believe you are serious in responding to "barbaric" practices.

Do have a look,"Do They Even Know What Islam Is?"

http://www.islamicsolutions.com/do-they-even-know-what-islam-is/

Bollywood is not in a mullah country. It's in India. And we will respond forcefully if there is any attempt to implement barbaric mullah customs in a secular country like India.

This appears to me to be a case of the stupid, attempting to fight the stupid, using stupidity.

Good luck to both sides.

The book burning dichotomy is fairly common. The preferred method of respectful disposal of a U.S. flag is by burning per section 176 of the U.S. flag code enacted by Congress, while burning the flag in protest of government policy is considered desecration and is the subject of continuing efforts toward criminalization, even by constitutional amendment encted over and over by the House ofd Representatives.

Pam you are wrong. Please take the time to better research your religion before you make incorrect and misleading statements.
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In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,

With regards to getting rid of unwanted religious and Islamic literature, the great classical Hanafi jurist (faqih), Imam al-Haskafi (Allah have mercy on him) states:

“Books that are no longer benefited from, one should wipe away the names of Allah, His Angels, and His Messengers, and burn the rest. There is also nothing wrong with casting them into a flowing river as they are (i.e. without wiping away those names) or burying them, and this (burying them) is better.” (Radd al-Muhtar ala al-Durr al-Mukhtar, 5/271)

Thus, if one decides to dispose of religious literature, the best thing would be to bury it by wrapping it in something pure first, in a place where people would not normally walk. It would also be permitted to tie the books and papers with something heavy and cast them into a flowing river. Alternatively, the literature may be burnt, but in this case, only after erasing the names of Allah, His Angels and His Messengers.

Disposing Unusable Copies of the Qur’an

As far as old and unusable copies of the Qur’an are concerned, it is not permitted to burn them unless there is no other way to dispose of them.

The great Hanafi Imam, Imam Ibn Abidin (may Allah have mercy on him) states:

“If a copy of the Mushaf (qur’an) becomes old and it is difficult to read from it, it should not be burnt in fire. This is what Imam Muhammad (m: student of Imam Abu Hanifa) pointed out and this is what we take. It will not be disliked to bury it. It should be wrapped in a pure cloth, and a Lahd grave (m: grave that has a incision in the side wall, customary in hot climate countries where the earth is solid) should be dug, because if a Shiq grave (m: grave with a straight opening, common in cold climate countries due to the earth being soft) is dug and the copy of the Qur’an is buried, it will entail the soil falling on top of the Qur’an which is a form of disrespect, unless a slab is placed as a roof…” (Radd al-Muhtar, 5/271)

In light of the above, there are two methods of disposing of an unusable copy of the Qur’an:

1) Wrapping it in a pure piece of cloth and burying it respectfully in a place where people (normally) do not walk about. In cold climate countries (such as the UK), one may dig a Shiq grave, but a slab should be placed first and over it the soil.

2) Fastening the Qur’an with a heavy object like a stone and then placing it respectfully in flowing water.

If one is able to implement the above two methods, it would not be permitted to burn the copy of the Qur’an. However, if the above two methods are difficult to carry out, then one may burn the Qur’an and bury or drown the resulting ash.

And Allah knows best

Muhammad ibn Adam
Darul Iftaa
Leicester , UK

http://www.daruliftaa.com/question.a...nID=q-0857077

Ms Taylor:
If your daughters sing with a school group that does not necessarily mean that singing is permitted in Islam.

“Abu Malik al-Ash’ari (Allah be pleased with him) narrates a similar type of Hadith, but a different wording. He reports that the Messenger of Allah “Soon there will be people from my Ummah who will consume alcohol; they will change its name (by regarding it permissible. m), on there heads will be instruments of music and singing. Allah will make the ground swallow them up, and turn them into monkeys and swine” (Sahih Ibn Hibban & Sunan Ibn Majah, with a sound chain of narration).”

As regards to keeping dogs
“From Muslim #3813
Abu Zubair heard Jabir Abdullah saying: Allah's messenger ordered us to kill dogs and we carried out this order so much so that we also killed the dog roaming with a women from the desert.”

While I might agree with your post as I usually do, I hear a strident tone here that I do not usually hear.