All Comments (26)

I'm curious to ask what everyone's interpretation of the "Separation of Church and State" is.

I find it quite interesting the rhetoric used in that statement itself. I know that the first amendment does not use that exact language, and for good reason, but that is what it has evolved into as part of the common vernacular when talking about that part of the first amendment. I am afraid that there are parts of this country that consider religious diversity means having friends that are Methodist, Baptist, and even Lutheran (gasp).

I'm not proposing we change the way we describe the first amendment, I'm not that ambitious. But I would like people to take a deeper perspective to what this part of the constitution means to people who do not represent a majority of the population.

Take the kid in school who is not put through the awkward, and sometimes embarrassing practice of public prayer because he does not share the same beliefs of the rest of the class. My point is that the first amendment protects us from issues, big and small, and any effort to diminish its influence must be met with harsh criticism. The constitution is an imperfect document, as are all documents of high importance, but there is no doubt the founding fathers got it right on this one.

There you go again..

Judeo-Christian.

An absolute OXY-MORON.

Judahism is a DEAD FIG TREE.

LEARN THE PARABLE OF THE DEAD FIG TREE.

JUDAHISM WAS REPRESENTED BY THAT FIG TREE JESUS TOUCHED, NO GOOD FRUIT COMES FROM IT AGAIN.

Anyone who claims they are Judeo-Christian is a crypto-rabbi trying to spread subtle falsifications to the masses.

Wolves in sheeps' clothing they are. Beware.

View from the outside:
having read intensivly about this subject in your country (and mine/Europe) I do wonder:
When does an "Ethic Majority" start to take back the public sphere from people who equal Enlithenment with Hitler? Talk about the Anticrist living in UN-Headquarters? Calling everyone whom they do not like "gay" - because it seems to be the easiest way of discrimination s.o. in your country?
When do you, readers of this (and other) magazine, educated peolpe, stop the obviously growing crowd of arrogant, undemocratic, manipulating and threatening opinionmakers, who start to destroy your country? They fight to lower education standarts (Creationism/ID/Teach the controversy). They fight everything your foundingfathers embraced (Separation of chrch and state). They dishonour people of different opinions by (for european standarts) unbelievable namecallings - what in the end leads from name-calling to name-believing to name-fighting?
When do you get up ... and vote, when elections are coming?

"There is no doubt atheists/gays have launched a war on Christians in this country."

Where do I sign up?

Seriously, I hate Christianity. I think it's ancient, mumbling evil, and think the millions of murders committed in the name of Christ are not an abberation. I think that's business as usual for the god-ridden, Christian or Muslim or Jewish. Something about monotheism makes you murderous.

Interesting your connection "atheists/gays." What do you mean by that? Do you mean all atheists are gay? Do you mean all homosexuals are atheists? Do you merely mean that you hate them both? Do you mean... Jeeze, man, what do you mean?

>> Christian leaders want us to believe Christianity is only 2,000 years old. Wrong. The ancient Egyptians were Christians. They believed there was a roadblock between this life and a next life and they documented it. It is from them that modern Christians have adopted their faith. <<

Now that's (almost) the silliest statement I've heard. The word Christian literally means "little Christs," or "followers of Christ." Since Christ walked on this earth about 2000 years ago, there can be no antecedent Christians. Also Acts 11:26 clearly states: "...in Antioch the disciples were first called Christians." And the rest of the (referenced) post is ill-informed and pure poppycock -- "The ancient Egyptians were Christians," Pleeeeeease.

There is no doubt atheists/gays have launched a war on Christians in this country. If you don't believe me, just go to google and type in "dominionist Christians" & you will find literally thousands of their websites, most of which say, basically, the same things, many saying identical things. They are trying their best to claim that Christians want to take over the US government and the world, as shocking as that is insane. Their tactics are very similar to Hitler's. They accuse Christians of everything that they are actually doing themselves. For a small example - they try to say we are scarmongerers when they are actually the lying scarmongerers. At least we have definite proof of what we say we should be afraid of. They do not have a shred of evidence of what they claim. A tactic used by Hitler and used by Muslim extremists/terrorists today is accusing others of what you are actually doing. They are starting all of these lies on Christians, trying to tell them as often as possible and as loud as possible. Another tactic used by Hitler, as well as Muslim extremists/terrorists. There are a great number of similarities, in fact, to these atheists/gays and the Muslim extremists/terrorists. Many of the Muslim e/t will admit, though, to using many of Hitler's tactics and that Hitler is their hero. There may just be a few Christian extremists in this country, but they couldn't possibly be as dangerous as the atheist/gay liberal extremists. You see, extremism is a disease in any guise & they all have similarities. This is why there are so many similarities between these gay liberal extremists and the Muslim extremists. If you look thru these many websites that pop up, once in a while you will find a Christian with a website that pops up and I mean they tear what these insane atheists/gays are saying all to pieces. These atheists/gays make their claims sound really convincing just as Hitler did until you use real logic and real proof, such as this Christian does to a demonic liberal atheist/gay extremists:

http://www.markdroberts.com/htmfiles/resources/greatcommissionchristers.htm

But you won't find many Christians fighting these demons. Fighting isn't usually something most Christians do. Some of the things these demons have said on here show just how illogical they really are. I could not figure out who in the world was tearing this country apart for the longest time, you see. I am a Democrat and I have sat and watched you heathens tear down the Democratic party and tear this country apart. This is why mainstream America is moving away from the Democratic party now. I always thought that us Democrats were the nice guys, and then you people showed up. And by the way, I do not even go to church. It is clear what you demons are trying to do. You are trying your best to make anyone who disagrees with your views/opinions shut up. Every one in this country, whether they are Christians or whatever have a right to voice their views and opinions and I hope you never shut them up. In fact, I hope and pray that this very dangerous game you are playing that has torn our country apart blows up in your faces big time! I know it certainly has changed my mind about the gay and atheist community. Accepting gay marriages really had little to nothing to do with religion. It did have everything to do with most Americans not being around gay people because most of them live in the cities and it mostly had everything to do with something new. I would have given this country just a few years to accept them. I seriously doubt now, though, this will ever happen when most Americans find out you are the ones who have divided this country at a time we needed to be united more than ever. I find it very interesting, too, that many of the above-referred to websites are the very same ones promoting the ludicrous 9/11 conspiracy theories. Well, isn't that a coincidence? And as for you demons trying to pretend there are not any Muslim extremists/terrorists in the world, do you not read the newspapers around the world? Is it just a coincidence that Muslims are involved in like 20 out of 22 of the armed conflicts in the world? Are Christians not persecuted by Muslim around the world when we hear of them being killed on a weekly basis in their countries? Try telling the three little Christian girls that were walking home from school in Indonesia a few months ago when Muslims chopped their heads off. This is not theh type of story, either, that you never hear. Why our news stations do not report them, I'll never know, but they are a dime a dozen. Do you people not realize what is going on in France, Demark, Britain, Germany, Sweden, etc? Do you not know that Muslims have already taken over the 3rd largest city in Sweden and the Swedes are moving out of their country "in droves" according to a Swedish Newspaper. Are you unaware that Muslims in France are injurying at least 14 French policeman per day, burning buses all the time, and robbing people on the trains, and gang raping women/girls constantly? Are you unaware that for the first time more Europeans are moving out of their countries than moving in because of their violent Muslim populations? Yes, Europe is filled with so-called "humanists" just like yourselves. Guess what one of them told a journalist that was moving to Australia? He said that he was good at living with freedoms, but he wouldn't be any good at fighting for them. My best opinion that pretty much describes every one of you. I was reading an article the other day that said Muhammad is the most popular name for babies in most European countries now and that in just a couple of years, there will be more Muslim children than any others. And with Europeans moving out of their countries at the rate they have been, European countries will be becoming Muslim countries much sooner than predicted before. So you may just get your wish to have Muslims over Christians very soon. And while there are little to no Christians who believe they are to take over any country EVER, there are millions of Muslims who will tell you right to your face that the world will never be at peace until Islam rules the world, some believing Islam is to take over the world by force and some believing it is to take over peacefully. You demons have no idea how much you have helped the Muslim extremists/terrorists in their goals of taking over the world, either. As peaceful as Christians are in this day and time, I wouldn't put it past them of just letting the Muslims take over. That way, you see, they can come in here and clean out the filth in this country that has been destroying it, you being the very first to go, because Christians would never do such a thing. I tried to get Christians from lots of different Christian forums to come and help me fight the Muslim extremists on other forums but I could not get not one to do it because most Christians are just too peaceful. You people must run in packs, searching out the Christian forums to attack them. Well, just wait until we're hit by another Muslim terrorist attack. Christians are very peaceful, but they are also human and can only take so much. Guess who America will put most of the blame on when the Muslim terrorists hit us again? If I were you, I would hide when that happens, because you have definitely been working overtime to try to make this country as unsafe as you possibly can and to tear us apart so we would be volunable to another attack. The only time I ever saw the Muslim extremists/terrorists down was right after 9/11/01. Seeing how united we were not only depressed them b/c they knew they could never, ever win if we were united, but it also made them very invious b/c they have never been capable of being so united. I have also had many Muslims point me in the direction of your pathetic websites. You people have no idea what you have done to this country. Please try to educate yourselves of our real enemy. I see nothing but all of this flying in your faces sooner or later. Just as one of you fools said, you will reap what you have sown.

Seriously, there is a Humanist consipracy. We have Political Action Committees all up and down K Street. Nearly every member of Congress and the President purport to being Secular Humanists. We have special tax-exempt meeting houses in every city, village, and township in the United States. Some of these are thousand seat "mega-meeting houses" with 10,000 Watt sound systems, elaborate light shows, chilc care faciliteis, and gymnasiums. We even have our own special TV programs like "The Hour of Atheist Power" and "Non-believer's Voice of Vistory". We even have special Humanist camps and universities where young people go to learn to be good Humanist evangelists. Some of us even do missionary work in third world countries where we spend years trying to convert the native population to our brand of secular humanism. We make up well over 75% of the U.S. population. Isn't the conspiracy obvious to everyone?

The United States is called the United States of America, formally, not the Christian Republic of the United States of America.

Only Iran, that I can recall offhand, calls itself, offficially, the Islamic Republic of Iran.

A state is driven by the majority adherents of any religion. Period. Except Hindu majority India which is proud to be secular; China and Cuba, which is avowedly atheistic or secular as a state. Not talking about state ideologies here.

Is the U.S. a Christian nation?

Hmmm.

Our judges and lawmakers and law enforcers are perdominantly Christian. Juries are predominantly Christian, usually.

So, when a 'non-christian' comes to court over an especially religious and 'experiential' 'non-christian' matter...in some federal court districts (and not others, I might add)the defendents are asked to prove the religious nature of their beliefs and sincerety. The manner in which the defendents are 'judged' is to compare them to 'mainstream' religions. This comparison is sometimes done by 'devout' mainstream religion judges and lawyers. If it goes to jury trial, chances are that the jury is predominantly Christian.

MOST churches in the united states, have signed on with the govt. They have done so, in order to gain tax advantages. Odd thing, the churches ALREADY had exempt status. Certainly, one needs to ponder this, maybe even research the matter.

One needs to ponder WHY a couple who are to be married are required by their pastor to sign on with the govt. What is wrong with the old fashioned way of getting hitched, where there was a pastor and witnesses and that was that? Well, do you suppose that the couple have just signed off to the govt, the control of their 'married' worldly goods and the control of their children?

Now, let us imagine that we live in a Prison state country. I believe that the U.S. would qualify for this, just check the per capita stats of prison imnates. We have hundreds of thousands of persons that are incarcerated for 'moral' crimes which HAVE NO VICTIMS. Yet, these folks who don't conform, yet harm no one, are put in prison to be subject to all sorts of harm (assault, rape, murder, aids). Families are torn apart. Children are put into foster homes, where certain authorities would have the children experimented on with brain drugs. Hmmm, would our predominantly Christian law enforcers,law makers,judges, juries, have ANYTHING to do with this?????

What is Dynecorp doing with prison systems and what is its relationship to slave trade in Bosnia? Where are our (predominantly Christian) judges and lawyers and lawmakers and law enforcers investing? Why do we have judges that state that they are intending to put X number of people in prison before the judge retires? Could this be a good Christian way of guaranteeing retirement?

Well, my take on it is that the govt has forgotten the part of being 'for' the people. I don't know if this would come about if the country was predominantly 'run' by people of other religions. but the fact is, that the country is being run predominantly by people professing to be Christian.

Atheism Is not a belief system in an of itself.

Many different people have come to the conclusion of atheism and from many different philosophies and religious experiences.

Atheism is not Marxist, it is not Objectivist, it is not always a conclusion reached from Logic. It can be also reached using emotion.

You can be a Liberal or a Conservative or an Anarchist or any point therein.

Atheism can be a formal statement of non-belief but it can also be the fact that you have no knowledge or awareness of some theistic belief that others hold.

We are, it has been correctly stated, born atheistic. We can gain a knowledge about Gods or any theistic view only from parents and community that we are born into. Or by inventing our own Gods or God.

In fact we can say that we are all atheists in respects to other peoples Gods.

Most Atheists really just don't believe because it did not make sense to them. Some do not believe for an emotional reason like the death of a loved one that made them question their beliefs. Some actually have a religion that does not require the belief in the supernatural. Some do not see a difference in "God" or the Universe, two words for the same thing so to speak. But they are considered Atheist all the same by those who see the concept of "God" as outside of the Universe.

Often we have a problem in that "God" has no working definition that is consistent even sometimes among the same religion and denomination. Einstein is said in the Time magazine "Man of the Century" article to at least have believed in God. The truth of the matter is he probably was using God as a metaphor for the Universe. He did not in his own words "Believe in personal God". Shame on the author of that article for not reading anything Einstein actually wrote except "God does not play Dice with the Universe."

Some pretend to believe because in times past, and in the current state in the more radical muslim controlled countries you can actually be killed for expressing a belief against the status quo. Ever heard of the Inquisition, or the Stoning of Infidels and unbelievers?

Why are there now "Militant Atheists"? Maybe they are not so militant as they are tired of being told that unless they believe in the same fairy tales as their neighbor they will be censured, or excluded from even secular activities.

The United States of American is the first Nation to not have any particular religious doctrine being the foundation of it's Government. We even have an article in the constitution that forbids any religious test be given to any holder of office elected or appointed. There is no requirement to say "So Help me God" in the President's Oath. That is a personal choice to do so.

The farther back in time you go the more closely linked religion seems to be to the Ruling Bodies. We once had God-Kings, representatives of heaven on Earth, Some like Egypt claimed that the first Kings or Pharaohs were the Gods them selves. Later we had Kings and Rulers that said they Ruled by Divine Right and the Pope backed them up on it.

Was the United states influenced by Christianity? Yes, undoubtedly. Is it the singular influence that Christians of the far right would have you believe? No far from it. Much of the influence comes from individuals who began to think for themselves, the merchants of venice, The Greeks and the Romans for example.

They also questioned the great experiments of Europe, and did not want the disasters as they saw them of the Papists, and Church of England. That to me is the biggest influence that the Church or Faiths of man had on the founding Fathers. They seemed to have wanted each man to make up his own mind and not be bullied by a government or other group. They actually thought that it was a matter or personal choice, but they also thought that open discussion was healthy so long as no one was excluded because of a Majority Ruling.

We do seem to have the odd and contrary notion that the "Majority Rules" in this country. John Adams gave warnings about the evils of a true democracy, that it lead to only anarchy.

The controversial rulings of the Supreme Court against the "Under God" part of the Pledge of Allegiance are not an attack on Christianity. The reality is it is a support of it, or rather each individuals right to choose. If you take that choice away and enforce it, you now take a road that the Founders feared.

They thought that picking and saying "We are a Christian Nation" was a prelude to saying that we are a Baptist Nation or a Catholic Nation, or a Lutheran Nation, or a Unitarian Nation, or a Deist Nation. First we exclude those who are not Christians, then we exclude those who are not our particular denomination. Remember, they were all well aware that we did not live in harmony as a freely choosing Christians.

Believe it or not, while many came to this country to practice their religion as they saw fit, when they got here they found that even here there were others who would not let them and in fact would kill them for being a Quaker, or Anabaptist, or Catholic or Jew, or Muslim, or Hindu. So much for Freedom of Religion as the basis of our Founding Pilgrims. The Puritans were a violent lot, so to were many others.

I say this:

"It is a weak Religion that requires the Government to Sanction or support it. It should stand on its own merits or fall for a lack of them."

Arthur

I just wanted to say: GREAT COMMENT STEVE D! You hit it on the nail.

good point phaedrus

so who is it, the humanists or the muslims who are determined to subjugate the helpless christians?

anti-l- for claiming to think in terms of equations- the mathematics of your brain are unusually arbitrary and subjective.

replace emotional knee jerk responses with knowledge-

anti-l- faith based initiatives = free government money for christian organizations

113 BILLION dollars in funding to israel
stem cell research being stymied here while all over the planet other countries are researching

and i agree- why DO WE HAVE A CONGRESS when the RIGHT WING EVANGELICAL CHRISTIAN GEORGE BUSH can go to war without an act of congress?

ok, there was your one christian based law

1) how do you see homosexuality being advanced anyway?
whens the last time you sat with an AIDS patient whose nearest and dearest couldnt visit them while they died because they werent a relative?

2) since you asked, i spent years of my life caring for all sorts of people including much time in nursing homes- ( i started doing volunteer work there when i was 14 in 1975)
what are you doiong , watching soylent green? what gives you such an idea? there is no conspiracy to euthanize the baby boomers-

3) bombing muslims in their country hardly sounds like a plan to 'appease them' and you are dead wrong- islam does not require the eradication of christianity to thrive its done just fine for 1400 years thank you

4) isnt even a point

5)global government? also not a point

6) i guess the muslims (by your thinking) would cancel out the goddess worshippers who would cancelout the humanists maybe so that...

7) america has done just fine plundering global resources WITHOUT absorbing or recompensing the plundered

so by your flawless 'scientific' reasoning america is being attacked by a conspiracy of

GAY GODDESS-WORSHIPPING, MUSLIM EUTHANIZING CAPITALISTS BENT ON THE CREATION OF A GLOBAL SCIENCE STATE WHICH, WHEN ACHEIVED, WILL EXPORT THE CURRENT POPULATION OF CHRISTIANS TO PARTS UNKNOWN??

WELL- how could anyone possibly disagree with that? it seems obvious to mwe that is just what is happening.

If christians truly were inclined to worship the sources of the logic most used by the framers of this country, they would worship John Locke and David Hume. This is a nation founded on philosophy, not religion.

Given that we are not a Christian nation, it would follow that we do not have a Christian culture, and yet political figures refer to a Judaeo-Christian culture? If we have to insist that we are something that we are not, why not claim to be all the things that we are not?

I am getting a little confused here, but perhaps we could go the whole hog and become -Islamo-Buddho-Hindo- and extend the organic chain always being wise enough to leave an open end, to tack on something else,to accomdate the latest boatload or trainload or recently remembered massacred Indian tribe, if you see what I mean.

Then, we shall stay eternally flexible and up to date. After all, we were hardly Judaeo in the 50's and 60's. In the way I propose, we would act with foresight rather than the hagiographic hindsight that we have used to polish our past until this spendid epistle.

I've tried to have discussions with ANTILUMINOUS in the past and it really isn't worth it...he only believes in religion as a tool to political expansion...he has no grasp of faith and God outside of what religious organizations tell him he must believe.

He really believes that there is a "War on Christmas and Christianity"...just because many stores welcome customers with "Happy Holidays" vice "Merry Christmas".

Indeed, the country was founded by many men with strong religious beliefs, but the government was established to protect ALL religious sects. Show me where in the Constitution that Christianity was the established religion?

Antiluminous - **What is the secular humanist beef with Christianity? The anti-Christian atmosphere in the United States is becoming very dangerous since roughly 1987**

Wasn't that right about the time that the evangelical fundamentalist organizations began lobbying to enshrine THEIR moral code into the laws of the land? Wasn't 1987 about the same time period that "christians" began their attempts to highjack the State and force the rest of us to kow-tow to THEIR particular interpretation of the Scriptures? Weren't the '80's the beginning of what Jerry Falwell calls the "evangelical revolution"? I really think it was.

The Founders knew what they were doing when they decided to keep the State out of the Church and the Church out of State affairs. Worked pretty well for a hundred-and-some-odd years...until the fundamentalists decided that they didn't like the heathens (i.e. Muslims, Buddhists, Jews, Pagans, and atheists, etc.) being treated as (GASP!) equal to Christians by the state. They got the same recognition, the same federal charity dollars, the same respect, the same consideration. Jerry, Pat, and Ralph just couldn't face the idea that, to the State, they were no better than the Rev. Sun Myung Moon.

You reap what you sow and the fundamentalists have sown fear, discord, hatred, and contempt for "others". Let the harvest begin.

Antichrist,
Careful about using irony when arguing with this paranoid. He'll take your joke about cannibalism as straight talk, and add it to his absurd beliefs about the boogyman he's created that he calls secular humanism. He may even be taking your nickname literally.

Yes Antiluminous that is a perfect description of what we secularists wants. The only thing you forgot was that we are also in favour of cannibalism.

And what do you want ? Using you method I get the following:

1) Reintroduction of the inquisition.
2) Burning at the stake of heretics.
3) Torture and burning of witches.
4) Death penalty for homosexuals.
5) Invading non-christian nation and convert them by the sword.
6) Compulsory church attendance on Sundays.
7) Forbid Gallileo's teaching that the Sun is the center of the solar system.

Did I forget anything ?

MKH, if what you say is true, why is humanism so energetically after Christianity? Do you honestly believe that the average Christian even bothers to confront humanism? The majority of Christians in this country are too busy working to pay taxes for America's vast socialist programs.

Folks say there is a vast right wing conspiracy, but where is it? Name me one piece of legislation that was pro-Christian in the last 20 years. Just one.

You can't because there is none. Instead we have had expansion of abortion, homosexual marriages appearing, folks pushing for stem cell research and cloning, Christmas tree chainsaw massacres all over the USA, mangers ripped out of the ground, hostile secularists trying to ban Christmas, the silencing of any mention of God in the public square and on and on and on.

So to the humanists who claim that Christianity is somehow a problem in the USA, I doth think you protest too much. Nothing has been done by any Congress and President, including President Bush, for Christians in decades. Absolutely nothing. The only thing Christians get from government is political violence.

Humanists on the other hand can walk into nearly any court in the USA and get judges to legislate things for them on demand. Why do we bother having a Congress anymore?

I don't care if you want to be christian, I don't care if you breathe, what makes you think I care what you believe?
For the most part I don't even care what you do - until your need to prove to yourself that all this nonsense you believe is true causes you to vote your beliefs into law.

There is no war on christianity, then again: rational thinking, empericism, experimentation, continually testing new hypotheses, throwing blind faith in the trash! I suppose you will feel this is a war on your faith.

Too bad.

We are seeing more and more the destructive nature of blind faith, in anything. I can only hope our species matures past these ridiculous, primitive, destructive insanities before we blow ourselves up fighting over the number of angles on the head of a pin.

MKH, let's look at this from a different angle. What is the secular humanist beef with Christianity? The anti-Christian atmosphere in the United States is becoming very dangerous since roughly 1987.

Now when the secular state has an interest in destroying religious political power, it can only be due to the fact that it wants to do something that would grossly offend or possibly violate Christian beliefs. We experienced this with Hitler and National Socialist Germany.

Now, given the fact that I think in equations, all this energy being put into attacking Christians and symbols of Christianity must refer to some as of yet unknown revolutionary plot against the Christian faith. It always happens that way with totalitarianism. The state never admits what it wants, it just does it slowly or very quickly and then the people eventually figure out the great mystery.

So why would the secular left be so interested in pummeling Christianity now? Hmmm, let's see...how about:

1) The advancement of homosexuality.

2) 70 million baby-boomers are fixing to retire. The state would have a very strong financial interest in terminating some of them (many of them?) with euthanasia. You know, I don't think that anyone is really keeping an eye on what is going on in our hospitals and nursing homes in regards to euthanasia. Something may be going on with that and it could win a reporter a Pulitzer, but I can't think of everything.

3) Appeasement of Islam must require a defeat of Christianity and Christian principles. There may be something there that the secular left is working to achieve.

4) The abolishment of all religions as was recommended by Hegel. Now that would fit with the current American secular energy directed at Christians.

5) Global government. We can't have Christian groups running around with their bibles if there is going to be global government, right?

6) Creation of a goddess system of worship. Since women comprise the vast majority of the voting population, the creation of a Goddess form of worship to serve that majority and feminism would be interesting to the secular left.

7) The plundering of global resources. It is hard for the US to plunder global resources if we don't absorb at least some of the folks that live where we do the plundering. When those folks arrive here in the USA, we wouldn't want to annoy them with the truth of America's Christian founding.

So based upon the current issues, the secular media would probably be most interested in state performance regarding:

* Fundamentalist Islam
* Euthanasia
* Abolishment of all religion to create a global scientific nation-state system
* Resource plundering and population relocation
* The creation of a Goddess system of worship.
* Homosexuality and homosexual rights

Well, I see Mr Cromartie takes the same position of declaring this to be "a christian nation" as that of one who says English is not the official language. They seem to have a common thread, a confusion of tongues.

Can anyone define just what a christian is? How about the English language, like itchi bon boysan. The problem is those who want things to be official. They anticipate their version to be it when there are many many versions of it that are possible it could be. In other words, stop the religious war before it begins. Isn't that what the founders did?

I found a definition of a christian that will curl christrian's hair for them. A christian is anyone who believes the road between this life and any subsequent life is blocked and a christ is required to get through the roadblock. Therefore Jesus Christ is just one of a multitude of Christs with ministers being themselves christs. Ministers do have the formula to get one to wherever dead people go and in one piece so to speak?

Christian leaders want us to believe christianity is only 2,000 years old. Wrong. The ancient Egyptians were christians. They believed there was a roadblock between this life and a next life and they documented it. It is from them that modern christians have adopted their faith.

There's a writeup of Egyptian christianity at http://www.hoax-buster.org along with some odds and ends. One favorite is http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul that does not set well with the ministry. It's also known as interpretation 1501 of the Bible's most famous story, Moses speaking to "the" God of his father in the burning bush.

Have a joyous and blessed Christmas and a happy new year everyone.

Antiluminous, how many signers were black? women? midgets? amputees? epileptics? jewish? how many were mormons?
I think most of these people are allowed to vote today, last time I checked they were and are. Including muslims living in this country.

The creator in the Declaration was "nature's god", Jefferson's god, the deist god. The notion that it was Yahweh and not Allah is spurious at best, it certainly was neither.

Mr. Cromarite, what "creator" in the DOI "created" humankind and guaranteed all men their unaliable rights? Allah?

How many of the US Constitution's signers were Islamic?

Answer: 0

Mr. Cromartie writes: "The separation of church and state does not mean the separation of religious principles from our public and political disputes (believing otherwise would mean some of the most important social and political movements in our history were ill-founded)."

In fact, there is an implicit idea here that those aspects of American life that we value most -- freedom, democracy, fair play -- stem from religious sensibilities. There is no evidence for this; indeed the Enlightenment ideas enshrined in our Constitution include a large contribution from people who were atheists or agnostics but who strongly believed in fair play. On the other hand, explicitly Christian countries -- Spain under Isabella and Ferdinand comes to mind -- were about as far as one can get from the values we hold to be most precious. This is why the Taliban seems particularly awful to most of us.

A christian nation - wow. Is that like the Islamic Republic of Iran, or Saudi Arabia, where judges declare punishment based on what they believe God wants, e.g. blaming women for rape, not the rapist, its a crime to posess a christian bible and btw some years ago it led to a beheading, etc.

Religion looking for power is the worst slippery slope in the world. If you look at the history of Christianity, the only question is how many tens of millions were murdered in the crusades, the inquisition, withc 'trials', etc. One thing is certain - mankind for a thousand years went nowhere economically or in terms of social justice, and the mayhem Christianity caused in the name of God is what underlies, in their culture, perpetuated by their religion, the crimes of muslim extremists.

The history of the world will change when religion is put back into the bottle, and capped securely. So much of it is superstition, written in an age of ignorance when on the scribes of the church knew how to read and write. So much of it is the promise that death isn't death, but can be eternity in hell if you don't do what the leaders tell you to do, which gets implanted as an unrecognized anxiety over the years that ultimately leads to brainwashing.

Sure there are good religions - the Unitarian Universalists (the "best of Jewish and Christian teachings", the liberal wing of the Jews, some other liberal churches which are looking forward, rather then blindly backwards to justify their existance. Religion should be helping people in their life, not threatening or promising rewards.

Religion needs to be turned to a love the family, love the neighbor ( in a very broad sense) charitable function in society, and if there is anything beyond this life, I'm sure those who practice this type of creed will be rewarded, while those who seek and hold power and money from the pulpit to drive their pet causes will come to understand the misery they caused.