All Comments (28)

Why should I? You Christians will just lie and rewrite it.

WHY? AREN'T ALL OPINIONS ALLOWED?

Luke, take a history course.

Maybe everyone should move out of the United States if they are not Christian. That would be brilliant. The non-Christians will take everything we invented away from you. Imagine a world without math or language. Then you guys can be cavemen with your cavemen book you are unable to read.

TTWSYFAMDGGAHJMJ:

"There is only one God. Many Gods is an oxymoron. The God that the Founding Fathers envisioned was a Christian God, not a Hindu god, a Muslim god, not the gods of Shinto syncretism or the polytheistic gods of the pagans."

Your statement is an oxymoron. If there is only one god, then there can't be a christian god, hindu god, muslim god, etc. And, if there is only one god, how then could the founding fathers have envisioned a christian god?

Patrick@OnlyJesusSaves.com:

You said, "If Mike Huckabee's God IS God then what does it matter if you do not believe in his God?"

The question is not if there is a God but is Mike Huckabee's God actually God, "the God"? There is just one God isn't there?

Have you read sacred scriptures? Not cherry picked quotes from the Bible but all "official" ones?

Give it a try, http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul Sacred scriptures taken as a whole tells us that the father of Jesus was the biggest Devil of them all, Lucifer. Are we to believe, have faith in sacred scriptures?

Note that the supernatural being "claiming to be God" who's story is documented in sacred scriptures forgives all sins except blasphemy. All sins, Adam and Eve, Cain the murderer, the builders of Babble and even the adulteress of the famous, "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" fame, all of them were given light punishment. But the angels that worshiped Lucifer, the one's who's story the Bible must be were all cast into a pit of fire, hell as it's now known.

Now tell us again about Mike Huckabee's God. Is it really God? Isn't it the leader of the fallen angels? Got any evidence, written or otherwise to contradict that?

Give us one good reason why all members of all three great faiths, all worshipers of the being in the burning bush aren't headed straight to hell. And Huckabee wants to make Lucifer's law the law of the land. Sure. Can't wait to not vote for him. He's one of those ministers of Lucifer leading the multitudes to the house of the father of Jesus, hell.

Repent before it's too late. All sins except blasphemy -worshiping false God(s) can be forgiven. Maybe it's too late for you already?

Jesus saves you by his representatives, ministers like Huchabee leading you to hell? You're not one of them I hope.

IN REPLY TO:
WHOSE’S GOD AND WHICH GOD?

ANS:
We are probably the only country in the world whose tolerance of human and religious freedom includes the freedom to be able to destroy the Constitution that protects that freedom.

Martin Marty asked the question, “Which God and whose God?” That should not present a problem. There is only one God. Many Gods is an oxymoron. The God that the Founding Fathers envisioned was a Christian God, not a Hindu god, a Muslim god, not the gods of Shinto syncretism or the polytheistic gods of the pagans.

Though Christianity was not explicitly stated in the Constitution, it was implicitly apparent. Namely, all men are created equal, endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, not given by man but by God. That is a Christian precept boldly defended by Christianity.

Moreover, the Founding Fathers recognized another Christian doctrine, man’s free will endowed by God as an innate part of man’s nature. That is a profound principle of man’s nature that is adamantly defended by Christianity. Thus, no other religion is more tolerant of the freedom of man to choose the good and the means to obtain his final destiny that he was made for.

Therefore, recognizing man’s free will is an explicit belief that man, because of his free will, has a right to choose his beliefs freely. Therefore, it is a canard to claim that a God oriented Constitution is an imposition and abridgment of man’s freedom. Is it not written that the Truth will set you free?

Further, there are some universal truths that no nation should be dismissive of, the truths that are based on the Moral Laws that God infused into the nature of man. Christianity is the guardian of the Moral Laws enunciated by the Founders in the Constitution.

The Founding Fathers were well aware of these truths and they recognized them by writing them into the Bill of Rights. Madison was emphatic that these rights be recognized and that if certain rights were not enumerated it should not be construed that they were proscribed.

Amendment IX
"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

Professor Marty notes such advocates of a God Constitution always lost badly, and we are stuck with the Constitution the founders gave us. They failed badly because they abandoned the Christian principles they claimed to defend. Specifically, that all men are created equal and endowed with a free will.

“Those who think religions must have government support, favor, or privilege, might do well to look at the empty cathedrals, churches, and chapels, emptied in part because of the aggression and later religiously thoughtless ethos,” writes Marty.

First, the cathedrals are not abandoned because of Catholic thoughtlessness and aggression, but because those who abandoned them abandoned God. You might lay that abandonment at the feet of the Age of Enlightment and the Age of Reason, when man decided God was no longer needed and made himself a god.

Thus, the anomalies of anti-Christianity for societies who rejected Christianity, flowered into Fascism, Nazism, and Communism. The remnants of these tragic ideologies still haunt Europe and the Middle and Far East. What is more ominous is these ideologies are spilling into America.

The Constitution’s integrity is being transgressed by the Court repeatedly. Yet you say, “Virginians in 1786 had it right, and their colleagues and successors have kept it right. It would be tragic if, in order to gain votes from one constituency or, in the other case, to revise and replace the tradition out of conviction in support of God's Constitution over two centuries of consensus and/or creative contentions were to be rejected.”

To the contrary, the Constitution is being rewritten by a rogue Court on a consistent basis. Hence, the impugning of the inviolable right to life, encroachment of free political speech and the right to own property without the State abusing the powers of “eminent domain,” are some of the major violations.

Notwithstanding, the Ten Commandments, though still plastered all over the Supreme Court incomprehensively have been removed from the public square. The Commandments are the moral foundation of this country. It was Thomas Jefferson who said, if not the Church, then who do we go to for our moral guidance.

In addition, Justice Stevens in Lawrence v. Texas claimed that traditional moral values served no beneficial purpose to the State, and had no standing in the Constitution. I believe what Sen. Huckabee may have been talking about is the restoration of the moral foundation our country was founded on.

The Court has legalized the murder of the unborn. Europeans may not be filling the cathedrals, but many European countries have a negative birth rate, and a people crisis caused by abortion. France is being flooded with Muslims to fill the gaps in the labor force, and has offered incentives for women to have children. The legal murder of over 48 million American unborn alone has created a SSI crisis in America and only God knows what else besides the devaluation of human life.

God’s laws imbued in the Natural Law can not be morally usurped by Civil Law without serious consequences, though the Court has taken it upon itself to do so.

I have no problem with Huck believing in Jesus. I DO have a problem with the idea of revamping the Constitution so that it will reflect Christian doctrine, just as I would have a problem with revamping the Constitution to make it reflect any other religious doctrine.

Where did anyone say he couldn't believe in Christ? Although I must admit I am wary of someone believing I deserve to burn in hell for eternity and that makes me more likely to vote for a schizophrenic than a preacher...I never said he wasn't allowed to believe in Christ. He is permitted to believe whatever he likes, but I, being a non-Christian, am certainly concerned how his beliefs will affect his administration. I mean, look at how screwed we are with our current Christian.

If Mike Huckabee's God IS God then what does it matter if you do not believe in his God?
I don't get the logic. Indeed I don't see any here, only emotion.
Clearly the matter lies in whether His God IS GOD not on whether Mike believes in Him or not.
Find the truth and then go on that.
What Christians say, and I am one of them, is that Jesus IS God, that He came to rescue you because you need rescuing (just like the rest of us).
YOUR job is to determine if this is true not whether a man believing in it is valid or not.
I have no problem with anyone believing in anything. Anyone can be as right or as wrong as they want.
What I do have a problem with is people telling us they cannot believe in what they do just because they are running for President. You don't like mike Huckabee's views then don't vote for him.
But this idea you have to disparage him because Mike believes in Biblical Christianity is nonsensical and juvenile. If anything you should be very happy Mike has a Goldy moral foundation and holds himself to that standard. I would expect a man of Godly moral character is a much better choice than some of the characters running against him whose morality seems to sway with the wind.
Try understanding why he believes what he does not whether what he believes is "allowed." You might find yourself maturing in the process Mr. Marty.

with respect to saints, i read this as "witch god? goose god? bee god?"

may i say in order catholic, protectant and orthodox christianity?

martyr Ignatius Letterman marching in.

am i right?

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/cal_thomas/2008/01/context_is_key/all_comments.html

Canyon Shearer: "Beloved, when you repent and place your faith in Jesus Christ, your sinful heart which drinks iniquity like water will be replaced with a heart for God that thirsts after righteousness. Things you used to love which God hates, you will now hate, and things of God which you used to hate, you will now love."

"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." - 2 Corinthians 5:17

Your post is profound truth and well accepted. However, on a practical level I would like to add this also profound truth to one aspect of your post. In essence this is the truth it is based upon:

1 Peter 1:6-7, (6)“Wherein you greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: (7) That the trail of faith being much more precious then gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honor and glory….. KJV

The transformation from the old man to the new man occurs through progression, an evolving process that sometimes includes regression until refinement is reached. The effect of this process in someone’s life at times consisted of and was described well by a biblical faith-tested prophet in:

Job 3:3 “Let the day perish wherein I was born and the night in which it was said, there is a man child conceived.” KJV

God’s response regarding Job suffering/trial and when it was over is something to learn and savor for a lifetime:

Job 42: 12, The LORD blessed the latter part of Job's life more than the first…....

I enjoyed reading your post. Mitt Romney is Mormon and the Mormon religion has been historically known as a cult. I agree with history in that regard.

Norrie Hoyt:

They make the cure for snake bite out of venom.

Even the seeds in the most rotten of apples will sprout and become trees. There's just one deadly sin, blasphemy -calling the being in the burning bush God. By survey 86% of Americans commit blasphemy routinely, every time the recite the pledge. That leaves 14% to seed out and rebirth that which is rotten.

New England doesn't hold a patent on blasphemy but according to the record is real good at it. Comes from England where the queen is God. Top that for blasphemy.

Canyon Shearer:

You are so so right. There are so many Devils it's impossible to count them all. Mitt is an obedient servant of the one known as Mormoni, according to somebody's post earlier here. But they call themselves "Latter Day Saints of Jesus Christ." Huck is definitely a servant of Jesus. But which God, (wink-wink) is the father of Jesus?

The answer is at http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul That would be the one in the burning bush wouldn't it? You know, the God that lives in fire that's the same kind of fire found, (only?) in hell.

Last week we determined that there is but one deadly sin according to Jesus -direct quotes taken from the Bible. The Bible tells us that Jesus did two things the day He died. He told the 'good' thief, (not real good -got caught) "this day you will be with me in paradise" and then, again according to the Bible Jesus died and descended into hell. So Jesus must have seen hell as paradise -kids always want to come back home even though they're grown up.

It all fits into a perfect, guaranteed conviction package of evidence. Hell is paradise and according to Jesus "My father's house." Which tells us that Mr Hunt got that story perfectly straight, it was Lucifer the angel that would be God and not God at all in the burning bush.

When you speak the word God you mean the being in the burning bush which is blasphemy, the only deadly sin -says both Mitt and Huck are demanding to go to hell by saying the being in the burning bush was God. And you too. Oh my! A politician is understandable but you?

So you are not really correct that Mitt's God is a different God than Huck's God. Both Mitt and Huck are headed for the house of the father of Jesus better known as hell. Now where can I expect either one will lead the country? How's the country doing under the enlightened leadership of another "born again"?

Please continue with your advice so we'll know who to not voter for. After Huck who's your next choice?

Can't believe Canyon Shearer is on here still - making Christians less Christian and pulling all as far as he can from Christ. Are you buying up all the real estate in heaven, Canyon? I would imagine that the only sin greater then denying Christ is turning others from him, which you are obviously quite good at. I hope that God has mercy on you.

Prof Marty,

Your examination of the intent of the framers is a clear explanation that needs to be restated repeatedly. The Biblical-blinded will always take a know-nothing position much like their attitude toward evolution:"the founding founders wanted Christianity...the Earth is 6,000 years old." Only the Courts insure a hands off approach (although we can question what Judge Scalia means when he asserts that he is a strict Constitutionalist.)

Huck is only the most obvious panderer to religious bigotry. Not one political candidate challenged Romney's position that government protects only the God-fearing, code for Christian. None dare offend the fundamentalist voter. (Obama is spending considerable time refuting the charge that he is a Muslim.) Despite the claim of persecution, Christianity dominates.

I have one naive Catholic acquaintance who beieves that the bigoted Protestant meant to specifically protect Papists...because Catholics are Christians. She has no knowledge that until 1820 Congregationalism was the official religion of Connecticut. No Protestant wanted the Catholics here.

Americans agree to freedom of religion as a generality; the specifics cause the conflict: right now it's homosexual marriages and abortion.
Paradoxically, though Christianity promoted democracy through emphasis on the individual,
"progress" for individual freedom seems to be a continual battle against the institutions of Christianity.

Canyon,

Joseph Smith was born in Vermont, so the religion he thought up can't be all bad.

The most frightening events occur is when we are convinced that G-d is on our side... not when we try to stay on G-d's side.

The founding fathers had the right idea. We are not G-d, and we have this tendency to abuse such power as proven over and over in history. So we should just leave it all alone and avoid turning the country into a theocracy. Ahem... religious right, moral majority, Huckabee, Dobson, anyone else who believes that we need to "get back to god..."

My great(5)grandfather, who served in the Virginia House of Delegates during and after the Revolutionary War, would be rolling in his grave to hear of the proposed hijacking of our Constitution and historical Separation of Church and State by lightweights like Reverend Huckabee and Mr. Romney. The Separation was established as much to protect religion as to protect citizens and the state from political charlatanism.

The US Constitution and its Bill of Rights already are the Standards of the Singularity and Humankind. And these Standards provide a shining beacon for backward, Dark Age, Islamic theocracies to someday follow.

And comments like those of "Preacher Huck" will also be discarded in the future by the enveloping knowledge concerning the errors in the foundations of all religions.

Professor Marty very exactly describes what makes America strongest of all. That ANY religion, ANY faith can be a contributing factor to this country. He very wisely points out all of those who've decried that policy and called for a Christian nation, are in fact striving AGAINST the Constitution, and therefore against American ideals.

Unfortunately, the ones who don't seem to grasp that this is NOT a Xtian nation are the Xtians themselves. Just like the South fought the abolition of slavery, because they felt it was their divine right to OWN people, Xtians seem to feel a divine right to OWN this country. In fact, the Thiests who constructed the foundation of this country saw that need to OWN the country, and very carefully laid the bricks to a truly universal framework. Note that Xtians throughout the years have tried again and again to turn this into their own little Vatican, and they have always been rebuffed.

Huckabee is the most outspoken of those who would make this a one-religion country (that IS the result of Xtianizing it, whether you want to believe it or not), Romney, Clinton and more are flat out, brazenly trying to work their way around the framework that has made us the most powerful nation on Earth. Do you really want a Xtian Iran or Saudi Arabia? Those who founded our goverment didn't, otherwise they WOULD HAVE SAID SO.

And Canyon Shearer is obtuse enough to try and paint Romeny to be the worst choice, when by the work of the Founding Fathers themselves, it is quite obviously Huckabee. Your church is not my church, my church is not yours. Until you stop trying to shove your church into OUR government, you will get no respect from me, for you deserve none. I do not wish to deny your church to you in any way, inasmuch as you keep from trying to involve it in my life. When you try to push your church into my life, know that I will fight you to the very end.

I tip my hat to you Professor Marty, from an Athiest to a Theist, we CAN see eye to eye!

Mitch would argue with all his heart that his God is the same as your God, Canyon. Except, he'd really actually believe in his heart of hearts that his picture of the unknown is even clearer than yours.

It's all "faith." None of you can prove yours is any better. Just different. Worship your version at your church. Don't force the rest of us to have to. We cannot have a zealout of any stripe making this one nation under HIS god with liberty and justice for all (those that worship the same way he does).

While we are playing make belief:

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...

Mitch would argue with all his heart that his God is the same as your God, Canyon. Except, he'd really actually believe in his heart of hearts that his picture of the unknown is even clearer than yours.

It's all "faith." None of you can prove yours is any better. Just different. Worship your version at your church. Don't force the rest of us to have to. We cannot have a zealout of any stripe making this one nation under HIS god with liberty and justice for all (those that worship the same way he does).

While we are playing make belief:

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...

Mitch would argue with all his heart that his God is the same as your God, Canyon. Except, he'd really actually believe in his heart of hearts that his picture of the unknown is even clearer than yours.

It's all "faith." None of you can prove yours is any better. Just different. Worship your version at your church. Don't force the rest of us to have to. We cannot have a zealout of any stripe making this one nation under HIS god with liberty and justice for all (those that worship the same way he does).

While we are playing make belief:

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...

Mitch would argue with all his heart that his God is the same as your God, Canyon. Except, he'd really actually believe in his heart of hearts that his picture of the unknown is even clearer than yours.

It's all "faith." None of you can prove yours is any better. Just different. Worship your version at your church. Don't force the rest of us to have to. We cannot have a zealout of any stripe making this one nation under HIS god with liberty and justice for all (those that worship the same way he does).

While we are playing make belief:

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...

Mitch would argue with all his heart that his God is the same as your God, Canyon. Except, he'd really actually believe in his heart of hearts that his picture of the unknown is even clearer than yours.

It's all "faith." None of you can prove yours is any better. Just different. Worship your version at your church. Don't force the rest of us to have to. We cannot have a zealout of any stripe making this one nation under HIS god with liberty and justice for all (those that worship the same way he does).

While we are playing make belief:

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...

It is sad that there are still people in positions of power and influence that still utilize the pitiful trappings of religion to sway and influence people. Sadder still is the fact that there are so many out there that are so lame of mind, that they let their religion choose their political leaders. It amazes me that we can reach such a high level of technological advancment, yet in regards to religion, still be as primitive and superstitious as we were when we learned how to make fire. There are people out there that actually think that god wrote the bible. How we can require proof in so many facets of our lives, and absolutly none when it comes to religion. Mike Huckabee is a little frightening when he talks about changing the constitution to fit gods will, but the people that agree with him are terrifying because there are so many of them. Mental children that have latched on to a santa clause story that they not only refuse to let go of, but they use it to run their lives, and are more than willing to force it on others, through the political process. They don't seem to be able to see that religion has nothing to do with god. God didn't make religion, people did, and they did it to do exactly what Mike Huckabee is trying to do, which is influence and manipulate people to do what he wants. The founding fathers were right when they decided that religion has no place in government, and now is no time to regress. We need to reject all candidates that try and bring it into the political arena.

Truly, truly, Romney does follow a different god. I had an article typed up in reply to the Huckabee issue, but I feel in response to the focus on Romney in this article, the following is more apt:

Mitt Romney - About his father's business
(c) Dec 2007 C. Shearer

I think it is ironic that Romney tries to condemn people that don't know or stand in what they believe, when in recent years he's flip-flopped on abortion, same-sex marriage, and gays in the military. He is jettisoning his beliefs in order to gain the world.

The inherent trouble with his theology/politics is the constant referral to liberty, referencing it to the Founding Fathers and the country. They founded the liberty of the nation on the liberty they had found in Jesus Christ.

Mormons do not have this liberty, and thus cannot appreciate, understand, or continue to maintain American liberty. In George Orwell's "Animal Farm", the animals held fast to their freedom even in their absolute bondage.

Nothing is more clear in America's bondage than the desperate and boisterous call of, "We are free!" Nothing is more clear in Mitt Romney's bondage than his desperate and boisterous call, "every single human being is a child of God."

Not if you have ever told a lie. If you have told a lie, you have given your soul to the devil (You don't even get to say, "I'd sell my soul for...") and the Bible calls you a child who is of his father's desires, for he is a liar, and the father of lies. (John 8:44)

Romney's idolatry in his following of baal-jesus, a created, impotent, man-god proves who his owner is. He is doing the will of the devil by spreading this idolatry and calling out, peace, peace between God and man, when there is no peace. Romney's god would not send anyone to Hell, the main reason is because he doesn't exist. Romney has created a god in his image, one which he is comfortable with and one that works for him. Be assured that no idolater has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ or of God.

For the captives, slaves to sin, dead in their transgressions; liberty is an idea which they can only dream of. It is something they have never felt nor possessed, and therefore cannot understand.

The Founding Fathers that Romney references knew this, but they knew first the captivity of the devil, but by the grace of God, they came to the liberty of Christ. They knew that Jesus Christ, the eternal, coexistent, coequal, Son of God, had paid the ransom for their life. They were owned by the devil and could do nothing to purchase themselves out of this bondage, their sins held them and they were doomed for disobeying their parents, creating their own representation of God, stealing, no matter how petty, lust, hatred without provocation, and coveting. But Christ lived a perfect life and willingly gave Himself up to die on the cross so that His blood could wash these sins away and that many would be purchased out of their spiritual bondage to eternal liberty.

When they repented of their sins and placed their trust in Jesus Christ, they were born of the Spirit. They were originally children of the devil, but they were adopted into the family of God. They were captives, but they were liberated.

They became members of the church of Jesus Christ, which He purchased with His own blood. The Mormon Church is not so bought, because they are trying to purchase this church themselves with their works. George Whitefield, a friend of the Founding Fathers, summed up the difference between the heretical Mormon Church and the grace of Jesus Christ, "Works! Works! A man get to Heaven by works? I'd as soon climb to the moon on a rope of sand."

The Apostle Paul tells us how we are saved, "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast." - Ephesians 2:8-9

James tells us that you can tell someone is saved by their works, not by their profession of faith. Romney was a proponent of babycide, he didn't understand the sanctity or symbolism of marriage, he didn't understand the damage that homosexuals in the military would cause. He has changed his opinion, and that is good, but he was a Mormon when he believed these evil things, and he is a Mormon now. There was no rebirth, there was no change of heart, and there was no conversion.

Beloved, when you repent and place your faith in Jesus Christ, your sinful heart which drinks iniquity like water will be replaced with a heart for God that thirsts after righteousness. Things you used to love which God hates, you will now hate, and things of God which you used to hate, you will now love.

"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." - 2 Corinthians 5:17

This is not Mitt Romney, and if he becomes president in his spiritual captivity, you can be assured that he will be about his father's business.