All Comments (31)

I have a question for you... What do you believe on Baptism? Necessary or no?

TOsgo3 U cool ))

TOsgo3 U cool ))

TOsgo3 U cool ))

I'm confused. Did this post actually answer the question? I found myself getting lost halfway through.

Unbelievable. I hope I don't live in that city.

She has free speech rights to petition the City Council. If they don't like her ideas, they can vote them down. That doesn't mean they ought to automatically label her a troublemaker.

She also has property rights. The local law enforcement certainly owes her the same level of service and protection that they offer any other citizen.

Unfortunately, the person that I was referring to, whose home was vandalized and one of her pets killed, did call the police. They ignored her complaints, because she was labeled a "local troublemaker" for not wanting the City Council to use Christian prayers.

Athena said: "I am sorry that ANYONE in this world is being discriminated against because of their religion. It's wrong, regardless of whoever is doing it. But turning around and perpetrating it on another group of people is just as wrong."

Excellent point. I could not have said it better. I agree 100%.

As for bitterness, I can certainly understand some pagans being bitter at organized religion given the reasons you have described. Have you ever perused legal recourse against the people harassing you? It sounds like you have a pretty good case.

I myself have been bitter at various churches, groups, pastors and individual christians over the years for a whole host of reasons. I can't remember acting on my bitterness to get revenge since my own beliefs and morals told me that revenge was "wrong". Well being mad at people for years is wrong too, but I didn't let that stop me for a second. hahaha! Anyways, the anger had to destroy someone, either them or me... so it ate away at me. Finally, I figured out what was up. That was the first step to freedom.

There is another choice. That’s all I'm really saying here :)

Regards

Bitterness, yes. Many Pagans are bitter because of their bad experiences with organized religion. But nobody ever says anything about retaliation, other than the usual jokes about "we should interrupt a Church service and hand out Goddess tracts, like they do to our public Circles." All we want is to be left alone! Why can't Christians just live and let live?

Yes, I was referring to the Inquisition in my first posting, but not the second one. My bad for not following my postings exactly. The Catholic Church was responsible for the Inquisition. However, there are other instances of discrimination and harassment of Pagans going on right here and right now.

I am sorry that ANYONE in this world is being discriminated against because of their religion. It's wrong, regardless of whomever is doing it. But turning around and perpetrating it on another group of people is just as wrong.

"Pagans may be bitter about Christians, but it's only because of the discrimination that we have faced for centuries at the hands of them."

- next post -

"I'm talking about what's going on right here in the USA, right now."

No you weren't. The premise was justified bitterness based on centuries of discrimination.

How did MLK (a christian and a civil rights leader) react to centuries of "discrimination" by the hands of "them"?

From the quotes I posted above, he lays out two choices:

1) Bitterness, Justified Anger, and Retaliation
2) Forgiveness, Love, and Justice.

The first option is the easy choice since it is in our nature. The second option sounds great but is almost impossible to actually put into practice since it runs contrary to our natural conditioning.

So to anyone who has read thus far I humbly ask, from this day forward, which option do YOU choose?

And now, let the chips fall where they may.

Aside - Rob Adams, you out there anywhere old friend? What do you think?

-GB

I'm not talking about Christians being fed to the lions in Ancient Rome. I'm not talking about the Inquisition, where thousands who were accused of being Witches were killed (most of them weren't Witches at all). I'm not talking about discrimination in the rest of the world - although I could point out what's going on in Nigeria as an example of Christian love of children. I'm talking about what's going on right here in the USA, right now.

Why do Christians feel that they have to convert everyone? What is so threatening about the 25% of the population that isn't Christian? Can't you just live and let live? I believe that religions should be based on attraction rather than promotion. If you truly want people to follow your version of Christianity, start acting like it.

Curious,

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter."

MLK, yet again ;)

Athena the Pagans started it.

"Fools' names
And fools' faces
Are often seen
In public places."

-Old American-Canadian saying

"Christians
are seldom seen
In Christian churches."

-Eternal verity

ghost,

I like your posts but seriously, why do you evenbother with a place like this? It doesn't matter how you treat them or the points you raise or anything else. If people want to stay bitter, just let them be.

What neochristians perceive as being "labeled and lumped together" is a result of their inherent intolerance. Neochristians, like Muslims, have a "my way or the highway" mentality that is incompatible with Christ's words of love and acceptance.

you go Athena! Christians should never forget their violent past and the wrongs that have been committed against our mothers and fathers. For them to do so would be their greatest sin.

Talk of love all you want, Christians. You have a history of belief that has allowed innocent people to be put to death simply for their lack of that same belief. Shame on you!

Shame on you for all that you believe in however masked in whatever it is you call love.

Here is another quote I like.

In reality, I don't need to post any of my thoughts on any subject on these particular boards. These two quotes along with the one I just posted by MLK should be sufficient. If he can't help these boards... there is certainly nothing I can do.

"Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true."

"Man must evolve for all human conflict a method which rejects revenge, aggression and retaliation. The foundation of such a method is love."

Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.

I like the posts by Lost & Athena. Very honest thoughts.

Lost - I can't imagine the boards you are describing being much worse towards christians than some of the stuff I read on here every week. Go back in the archives and read any thread from the week Jerry Falwell died. I certainly wasn't a Falwell fan, but I've never seen that level of unbridled hatred expressed anywhere towards anyone, ever.

In fairness, I've been on other boards where pagans get trashed by "christians". That is actually why I started visiting boards, as I've mentioned on here before. I think demeaning people instead of rational discussing viewpoints is a human problem, not a problem based only on one's beliefs. So what should one do when being smeared and personally attacked on blog boards for having a different belief system or opinion? I am generally curious.

Athena - Instead of justifying pagan anger and lashing back at the percieved or real offenders, why not try a different approach?

"Let no man pull you low enough to hate him."
Martin Luther King Jr.

Also, I suggest you read Richard Wurmbrand's book "Tortured for Christ" or pick up any Voice of the Martyr's material. You will find that Christians all over the world are facing severe persecution... but don't take my word for it, do the research yourself.

Regards,
GB

Pagans may be bitter about Christians, but it's only because of the discrimination that we have faced for centuries at the hands of them.

When Christians are fired because of their religion, or lose custody of their kids, or have their homes firebombed and pets murdered because they're Christians, THEN we'll talk about discrimination!

Mark, "I suppose that makes those of us who do claim Christ stick out a little bit more for those who vehemently disagree with our faith. And that’s OK."

Great truth! And yes those of us who do claims Christ "stick out" to those who vehemently disagree with our faith.

Frankly, those types of people claim "we" as Christians spew hatred at them because we quote the word of God for the basis of our belief. Then we are accused of "shoving" God at them and trying to convert them from their paganism.

Then they spew personal attacks at believers by the multitudes. Talk about rhetoric read some of the post on the pagan sites regarding those who claim Christ; it is astounding regarding the hatred they have for believers.

They really do discriminate and try to make believers look like we are deviants. Thank you for your great article and by the way love some of your music and have bought some of your CDs.

You implicitly acknowledge the long standing societal pressure to be, or at least claim to be, Christian in the US with the one hand while you engage in your little Christian persecution complex with the other.

I think it's cute. Annoying, but cute.

"Historically in our country, the word Christian almost has been synonymous with the word American. If you’re American, then you’re Christian."

Maybe in the Christian, natural-born American mind, but certainly not in the minds of the millions of people who have immigrated in the last century.

I would have never become an American if Christianity was an element for naturalization.

Funny how the panelist seemed to think this was a question about Christianity.

"As a side note: It’s strange that we’re so careful not to attach the 9-11 bombings to Muslims, but when some nut blows up an abortion clinic, then all the churches and every Christian are castigated under an umbrella of accusation and ridicule. That isn’t a double-standard. It isn’t a standard at all. It’s just mindless rhetoric."

Nonsence-

How many times did those who call themselves Christians make a big deal out of Barack Obama's middle name , out of him wearing Somali clotheing (on a trip to Africa), out of his Father being an X Muslim, (but they never say X) or that he went to school in Indonesia...(a secular elementry school).inferenceing that Oabama is a Muslim(which he is not) and will be a Mancharian Candidate?

As far as linking Christians to what they did in the past is stupid, just like linking throwing Christians to the Lions by the ancient Pagans is also ignorant and stupid (we just did not have enough lions (a jk!). Just like linking me being a non Christian to being immoral is also ignorant and harmful.

Suffer not a Witch to live, has been used in too many circumstances to running innocent people out of town, harrassing children into suicide, stoning, hanging and burning men and worman... some Pagan, most Christians that just were different.

The instances of violence against Muslims has gone way up...even against those that idiots think are Muslim but are Hindu. So really your stand that all Muslims are not held responcible for the act of 19 is wrong.
And simply rhetoric.
terra

Angela, ghostbuster, all:

Lucifer simply loves to be worshiped. When there's first rate music to help with the worshiping Lucifer dances with glee. Baptists used to be against dancing. Has that changed?

Hi Mark,

Thanks for posting. I like your music.

Unfortunately, some folks automatically link the word "Christian" to the crusades, abortion bombings, slavery, racism, homophobia, hypocrisy, oppressive government, war, radical Islamic beheadings, 911... or just about anything other evil act. Of course, some of the criticism is certainly justifiable, maybe more than we would like to admit but, much of it is a reach as you mentioned. Why do some folks continually grasp at any and everything to slam Christians (or any other group for that matter)? I think it is a simple response deeply ingrained in our psyche, the keyword being "simple".

Think of erosion. When it rains on a newly cleared open field, gravity will cause the excess rain water to follow the downward slope along the path of least resistance until the water eventually a larger running body of water on its path to an ocean. Eventually, the water will begin to erode the soil along these paths of least resistance and visible cracks will appear on the surface of the field. The next time it rains, the water will follow the eroded paths and run off the field quicker than the first time.

The path of least resistance is simply to label and dismiss. If a knee jerk conservative thought that all liberals were 100% "wrong and evil", for whatever reason(s), then his path of least resistance would be to immediately dismiss anything any liberal ever said as nonsense. He might even take it a step further and attack the lib, or try to shut off his access to the marketplace of ideas. That may sound irrational, but it passes as the Modus operandi for all too much conversation these days. I’ve seen it happen hundreds of times on these particular boards. Someone says something a little bit controversial and immediately 10-15 ghosts are all over him/her trying to shut them up or render their opinion irrelevant. If an opinion is irrelevant? Why bother to attack it so hard all the time? I don't get it.

From my own perspective, when someone has you "labeled and branded", there is nothing to say. All you can do is show them. Kind of like one of your songs...

GB

I totally agree. BTW: I love your new cd "The Altar the Door".

You guys are awesome: great musicians with wonderful messages.

YSIC.

The Eagle’s Landing First Baptist Church in Atlanta should get with Ted Turner and cut a deal so his real estate can be tax exempted too. There should be a lot of money in that. With God nothing is impossible. I'm sure you agree with both.

You can threaten Ted with hell, "it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." There goes all the big ministers, Billy G, Pat R, all the ones blessed by God with the big money straight to hell. Can't see why Ted T should be left out, unless of course he "sells all his earthly possessions and distributes the proceeds to the poor, (ministries)."

See, with God Ted can be realed in just like all the others. A little threat of being set on fire with "the fire that burns but does not consume" and left to burn for all eternity should do the trick. It's worked millions of times before and maybe more. Never forget, "unless you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior you're going to hell" -- get set on fire....

You don't suppose http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul has anything to do with it? I didn't think so but thought I would ask.

At least 14% of Americans are on board with that Hoax Buster Bible study, faith it. Maybe the 40% has a few of them that were so psychologically disturbed by threats of hell while they were still children that they don't know what to do?

You do present all possible versions of what the Bible says at Eagle’s Landing First Baptist Church in Atlanta don't you? You don't!! Why not?

The one thing that all "faiths" have in common is faith that was God in the burning bush. How do you reconcile the variety of fire there being unique to hell? You don't!!

I get it. The big money comes to those who lead the multitudes to hell. Yall doin' alright, rakin in the 'gifts to God' used to pay 'Devil's fee' for the souls of His ministers?

How much RE tax is paid on Eagle’s Landing First Baptist Church in Atlanta? None!! Then all the good folks in Atlanta are being tithed. You like that!! Does Ted Turner attend your church, a member? I'll wager he wishes his vast RE holdings were tax exempt.

I'd like to add that "born-again" doesn't mean that you are born into rightness nor righteousness. People claim so many things in the name of God. Does it look like Jesus? If it doesn't then it ain't God and I don't care how much your hair stands on end or what language you prophesy in if your breath-by-breath life doesn't look like Jesus then condemn that, work on that, don't go after the rest of the world.