All Comments (104)

To Frances –

Your example of misleading a child is much different than my response to Dr. Borg’s example.

Your mother was calming a disturbed child (and I suspect you no longer believe in the sandman).

Dr. Borg was answering a curious child – saying a story was “truthful.” Every child is taught the difference between truth and make believe. Unlike belief in the sandman, being truthful is not something we are expected to grow out of.

Unfortunately, many adults are never told that the Bible stories they learned as children are myths. Even clergy, who themselves learn this in seminary, fail to pass on the information. I know an atheist who thought there were Roman records of Jesus hanging on the cross between two thieves. While she doesn’t accept the miracle aspects of the life of Jesus, she assumed the “facts” were true – probably because she’d never heard the story many times without it being questioned. There are no such records -- Dr. Borg could tell her that.

Also, regarding your comment that Atheism is a religion. It isn’t -- There is no dogma or set of beliefs associated with it. It is simply the lack of something --like being asymptomatic.

You say you’re a struggling Christian. I hope that in your struggles you find guidance that speaks clearly to your mind as well as to your heart and soul.

Frances, I admire the sentiments in your post, especially the last paragraph. I can't speak for anyone else, but whenever I hear someone use the word "God" I am very tempted to assume that the person is speaking about the Supreme Being from the Abrahamic religions.

In my view, that sense that you mentioned is the very essence of faith. I strongly suspect that different people sense that something bigger in different ways. That might explain why there are so many religions.

I suppose that a common name such as "God" makes it easier to have a meaningful conversation about that sense. I just don't like the idea that one person's sense of something bigger is less valid than another's, or that everyone should sense it the same way.

After reading through all of this, I figured I'd put my two cents in. For anyone reading this, you will see that I jump from one line of thought to another, addressing those postings that stood out for me.

First as to the worry of misleading children: One night, when I was about 4 or 5 years old, I had problems going to sleep. Then, out of the blue I looked down at myself, and saw standing on my chest, a little man with two little bags in his hands. I jumped up from my bed and ran to tell my mother what I saw because, I was afraid.

I told her the story, and my mother said very calmly, "That's the Sandman come to help you go to sleep, he won't hurt you. Go back to bed." And that was that. I went back to my room and fell asleep, I guess. And yes, I did come to realize that I must have woken from a dream, but I can't say that for a "fact" because I don't remember falling asleep.

Why I remember this is because my mother refused to "debunk" even fairy tales. She would say it wasn't up to her to make definitive statements upon the creation of God. I have been grateful to her wisdom my whole life. Who knows what is "real" and what isn't? And why do we get so upset about others' belief or non-belief?

I am a struggling Christian, and there are times when I do feel like a fraud. But I would rather struggle with this, than not. For me, it makes my life richer.

How is it that animals, sentient and non-sentient, have this sense of group cohesiveness? Because there would be no life without it. All creatures would eventually destroy themselves without it. OK, why do we care? If this life is all that there is, why do we care what comes after us? Well, I think religion tries to speak to the "why" of things as opposed to the "how" or the fact of them.

Those of us who are sentient have a sense that there is something "bigger" than just our individual finite existences. Some of us call that sense, God. Some of us tap into this sense of God through our religions: Buddhism, Islam, Judaism, Christianity, Pantheism, Atheism (because it takes just as much faith to disclaim as it does to proclaim). Faith is not about proof. There is no "proof" that God exists, and there is none that God doesn't. Me, I'm hoping that God indeed "Is".

Mark Eaton,

Sounds like you minimize the value of humans. We can be good without a false God.

Don't remember who posted this:
"My point is, we must teach our children to believe in something/someone greater than ourselves."

Why?!

"If there is anyone who honestly believes that there is not a Higher power watching over our lives, whether you call him God or Buddha or Allah, then you are living a very empty life."

I don't, and I have a very fulfilling life.

MARK EATON:
"Ever wonder why most of the nations of the world have the same basic laws like "Do not murder", "Do not steal", etc.? Did you know that even the most uncivilized people of the Amazon rain forests had these same laws? Well, its not by chance or by western conquest either. God put these laws in us. His Laws. Our internal conscience guides us by these, even though we may choose to ignore it."

No god didn't.
Regarding the Amazon People...I don't think they believe in your god, or the bible. They also seem to be doing fine without it.

I don't believe in god, and I don't go around killing people.

Children,

The ancients had many tales, myths, superstitions, and embellished stories, many that exemplify what it means to be a good person. This was the ancients' way of looking at things around them. From this grew Greek mythology and many stories of the Bible and the Koran. Today based on our current knowledge disciplines of Philosophy, History, Archeology, Geography, Anthropology, Genetics, Medicine, Astronomy, Biochemistry and Microbiology, we can now separate fact from fiction of the ancient world but the good observed by the ancients remains today and forever will be.

Mark Eaton,

If Jesus was proved to be fake; would you go out and kill and rape?

I am sure the answer is no, and it is not because of the holy book, it is because of a simple concept. “The Social Contract.”

This contract has and will changes based on environment and necessity. All social animals are born with it. “I will help you if you help me” and “I will not hurt you if you do not hurt me”

For the people that do not follow this, we look in to there psyche and find the root problem.

This concept has allowed humans to build an awesome base of morals that are continuing to change. Just 150 years ago, we were fighting a Civil War, as a nation we have changed for the most part to understand slavery is wrong. Why give credit to God, we humans have made the morals.

The biggest problem we now is the monotheistic view that causes unnecessary war and killing. These views are supported by the moderates, who hold on to faith and won’t question the reasoning behind it. “With or without religion, we would have good people doing good things and bad people doing bad thing. But to have good people doing bad things, that takes religion”

Paths and Questions

From the Arch Bishop to Starhawk and Mrs Jacoby and all the posted comments all ring true with similiar tones. Choices; to love, accept or believe is what it boils down too. I think ,as with most everything in life, that there is a little truth to all.
If God is "Love" then God is Wiccan or Islam or Jewish, Christianity or even the non-believer because they all love. Consiquently if the answer is that simple its the question that must be all together confusing.
Find your place in the world. Love God, whatever you call him; he knows who your talking too (and love you back)
What's the worst that will happen? Either your dead and the joke is on you, or....

Peace to all, unconditionally

Dear SCOTT:

We care if God and Jesus exists, because He put the desire in us. In fact, He put the desire in all of us. He made himself known to all of us by our own internal conscience and by the created things around us, trees, animals, the earth, stars, etc. Read Romans chapter one and you will see.

Ever wonder why most of the nations of the world have the same basic laws like "Do not murder", "Do not steal", etc.? Did you know that even the most uncivilized people of the Amazon rain forests had these same laws? Well, its not by chance or by western conquest either. God put these laws in us. His Laws. Our internal conscience guides us by these, even though we may choose to ignore it. But what about the suicide bombers on 9/11 you ask? Did not they commit murder? Let me ask you a question in response. What would have happened to the 9/11 terrorists if they had murdered a friend? Or a relative? They would have been punished. You see, we can delude ourselves into believing killing is permissable if it is a part of war. These people believe they are in a war, a jihad. They see that it is permissable to murder us, because we are their enemy.

So, you see we cannot really live isolated lives and not seek God. We are only deluding ourselves. Did anyone of us create the brain that we use to think? Did anyone of us create the fingers we are keying with? All of these questions point out that we are not in control. Someone else is. Seek Him out. Find out who He is. Prove that He is a fake, if you can. You might just find out that He is as real as you and I and that He wants you to get to know Him.

I'm still waiting for some intelligent honest answers from the "believers".

sorry 'bout the typo's

*plagues

*fiery

It's strange, I just woke up one day not believing anymore, but was so afraid to say I didn't believe anymore because of my family and the ridicule I was sure to receive once it was known. But, no more. This whole religion thing is riduculous. The violence, sexism, tales of splitting tongues and plaques that kill babies (first born) is just too much for me. Demons that stalk you and take over your body; firey pits of hell and gold lined streets. ummm.. Why would God's heaven have streets lined with gold? You are no longer a physical being after death according to the faith so why would you need gold lined streets? And for that matter isn't that vain and materialistic? Once more how can I be in a firey pit of hell that burns when I am no longer made of flesh? Does my spirit experience pain too? C'mon people! Religion sets people up for failure. In the eyes of the scripture we are not perfect and never will be. So to try to live up to standards that ALL of us are unable to remain true to is just self-destruvtive. Kill somebody on Saturday, ask for forgiveness on Sunday, go to work all forgivcn on Monday with a clean slate. Yeah right!

Robert,

I agree. The whole idea of most of what Christianity (not Christians) has to offer is vile and mean-spirited.

A religion that said we are all perfect and should live happy as we please (without directly harming others) would be welcome.

Merry Saturnalia--the "original" christmas--to all!

Praise be to Mirtha--the "original" jesus (by 1,000 years)! He was born on December 25, of a virgin. His birth was witnessed by shepherds and magicians. He raised the dead and healed the sick and cast out demons. He returned to heaven at the spring equinox and before doing so had a last supper with his 12 disciples (representing the 12 signs of the zodiac), eating mizd, a piece of bread marked with a cross (an almost universal symbol of the sun). Any of that sound familiar?

Don't be afraid. Critical thinking and the willingness to admit you may have been given false/misleading information your entire life are hard to deal with. Remember, truths and what's real in our world don't need to be forced on you--they are self evident to all.

Peace

Robert - The good news is that while God may have created us as frail, sinful mortals, he didn't leave us helpless or alone. He has promised to provide us everything that we need and He has promised to never leave us. Jesus is not so easily willing to give us over to the mortal enemy, He is fighting for us with every drop of blood in his body. You don't have to be worthy (good or benevolent), you just have to come to Him.

CWilson said: "maybe you feel like you are being threatened because deep down you truly believe in Heaven & Hell and you are afraid that by not accepting God, you are condemming yourself to eternal damnation. If you don't believe in God, then you probably don't believe in Hell either. If so, then why are you worrying about people who do believe. One day you'll just be able to laugh at them and say, I told you so. But if you have any doubt about the existence in Heaven & Hell, you might want to do some more research. I heard someone once say, better to Believe in God & Heaven and be wrong then NOT to believe and be wrong. If you believe, what's the worst that can happen? You'll have hope, love, faith and soomething to look forward to when the world is spitting in your face."

Mr. Wilson, if there is anything that scares me, it is that an omnipotent being, who created us frail, sinful mortals, would punish us with with an eternity of torture and abuse for choosing the wrong God to believe in (or no God at all) during a finite and cosmologically short lifetime.

If such a being could do this to us, then I do not see how that being can be considered "good" or "benevolent" in any sense of the word.

Sending us to hell, to governed by this omnipotent being's mortal enemy is cruel when one considers that if the omnipotent being doesn't like us, all he has to do is make us not exist.

I think would prefer non-existence over an eternity of torture and abuse.

Mr. Ted - no harsh feelings here either. Healthy debate and kindly expression of opinions is also good. That is how we grow as individuals and while we may not agree, we can respect and have understanding. I also do not like extremists as they seem to accomplish nothing more than anger and bitterness towards whatever they support. While I do believe in God and I am very thankful to have Him in my life, I can respect your views. I will never force my belief in God on anyone (even my children) but I will always talk about Him and what He has to offer. I hope that I can be a fisher of men thru understanding, conversation, and prayer. So that when my time comes, God will say to me, "Well done, good & faithful servant". I do respect your belief but I will be keeping you in my prayers, just in case.

CWILSON I do like the debate here, so no harsh feelings on either side. I don't believe in a God or Hell, but rather that we did evolve. I don't know what is going to happen when I die, or why I'm here to begin with. I take pleasure in my day to day activities and my life so far. I don't condemn the peopole that believe in a God or Gods, I just ask that they don't shove it on me or are condescending towards those who aren't Christians. This will always be up for debate. As for my children, I will let them make their own decisions. I went to parochial schools up until college and I had enough to last me a lifetime. I would discuss it with my children should they ask and I will give my opinion as well. They are free to decide for themselves(free will). Again, this will always be debatable and up for criticism. You will also find extremists who have a perverse view of their own religion and that bothers me.

I still don't know why anyone cares or wants God or Jesus to exist anyway.

Why can't people just live happy lives without focusing on far fetched things?

Mr. Ted - Well, I just take great comfort in knowing that I can show my children, in the Bible, the bases for the laws that we following. It takes away the guess work and I can give them concrete proof why there is a law against things robbery & murder.

Robert - maybe you feel like you are being threatened because deep down you truly believe in Heaven & Hell and you are afraid that by not accepting God, you are condemming yourself to eternal damnation. If you don't believe in God, then you probably don't believe in Hell either. If so, then why are you worrying about people who do believe. One day you'll just be able to laugh at them and say, I told you so. But if you have any doubt about the existence in Heaven & Hell, you might want to do some more research. I heard someone once say, better to Believe in God & Heaven and be wrong then NOT to believe and be wrong. If you believe, what's the worst that can happen? You'll have hope, love, faith and soomething to look forward to when the world is spitting in your face.

CWilson said: "God gave us everything, includig FREE WILL. Which meant that he gave us laws but he also gave us a mind to choose or not choose to follow those laws. First we critize because God can possibly exist and then we're mad because he gave us a will of our own (so we are not robots) and caused up to get into trouble. At what point in our existence do we start to take some responibility for our actions? God is not forcing anyone to do anything but just like everything else in this earthly life, there are consiquences to our choices."

An omnipotent being giving us free-will, and then threatening us with eternal damnation for not using that free will correctly (i.e., not obeying him) is a unique kind of free-will.

Other beliefs and fear of ZEUS or other gods that were believed in at the time, OR that they realized killing was no way to keep a tribe, or vice versa, kill or be killed. Animal instict.

A person is rational, subjective,cohearant and smart. People are irrational, dumb and panicky animals.

Mr. Ted - Where did society get their idea of right & wrong?

CWILSON, how do you know god gave us free will? I think we evolved and it was evolutionary progression of the human brain. Consequences to our choices are based on the morality of society and how society deems things right or wrong. It's more of a popularity contest and a non-existant poll on what people deem moral or immoral. Things change and times change. Religion will evolve or change to something else in time as well. There will be another belief that catches on and people will believe that as well.

Robert - God gave us everything, includig FREE WILL. Which meant that he gave us laws but he also gave us a mind to choose or not choose to follow those laws. First we critize because God can possibly exist and then we're mad because he gave us a will of our own (so we are not robots) and caused up to get into trouble. At what point in our existence do we start to take some responibility for our actions? God is not forcing anyone to do anything but just like everything else in this earthly life, there are consiquences to our choices.

Anonymus - 2000 years was just since Jesus (New Testiment) but God has been here must longer (read the Old Testiment). So far, God has been able to stick around the longest :>

CWILSON I agree with your last comment wholeheartedly.

CWilson,
Humans are scum and worthless and have no point in living if it isn't trying to satisfy someone that they have NEVER seen or spoken to. Right? Geez. Oh and by the way, the Greek religion flourished for about 3,000 years before the Romans took over and incorporated it into their society. But it would take another 400 hundred years for Greek and Roman religion to be declared mythology, and Christanity would take over. Christanity is a mere 2,000 years old. Don't worry, Christanity will be debunked and replaced by another religion. The only true thing about religion is that they rise and fall. History will repeat itself.

Regarding the original question: What to tell your Children. Each parent should tell Children what they believe and guide them to the best of their ability. Children should also be told that there are different opinions and that all people should be respected regardless of who or what they believe. Everyone has the right to believe what they want and everyone should respect one another. That doesn't mean you can't get into a healthy debate over what you believe but any discussion that changes from an exchange of person thoughts to insults & stone throwing is wrong - in all beliefs.

CWILSON I would love to see how long this bit lasts. So far we are on 2000 years. How long did the Greek and Roman mythology last? Oh until something else came along and it was forced upon people. Look, you can believe that there is some entity up there in the big blue sky, but where, in the mesosphere,stratosphere, troposphere or ionosphere?

CWilson said: "If we weren't sinners, we wouldn't be seperated from God and would not need the salvation we received thru Jesus."

And if this omnipotent being hadn't put in a position where we could sin, then we wouldn't be sinners either. But, we were not placed in such an environment. We were placed in an environment where the possibility for sin was left open.

That is the responsibility of the omnipotent being, not the people the omnipotent being created.

JWS - You ask for it because you want it. If you don't want to believe in God, then you don't want what God has to give you. If we weren't sinners, we wouldn't be seperated from God and would not need the salvation we received thru Jesus. Have you never spoke an untruthful word in your life, have you never taken something that didn't belong to you, have you never looked at another person with envy or lust (Example: "Hey that chic is hot"), or taken the Lords name in vain (Example: God Damn). These are all sins that upset God. If you upset a friend, you would probably ask for forgiveness, right?

Mr. Ted - simply - mythology didn't last for 1 reason - it wasn't true but God & Jesus continue to remain because TRUTH will never die.

I don't think anyone is saying the bible is not correct historically or that the people in it did not exist. I'm sure Jesus was a real person who preached(Just like David Koresh).The problem is there is NO evidence to prove a supernatural being exists. No proof of the leap for the physical to the meta-physical(what believers call 'Faith'). Just because you love someone, or your child is born healthy, or your house didn't burn down during a forest fire, does not mean there is a god watching over you. What about all the times when things are bad? Are those effects of a supernatural being too?

Maybe other forms of life on other planets don't have to wear Nitrogen suits to breath Nitrogen either. They must have the other god.

Jim said: "The true fantasy is beleiving you evolved from a rock or a single cell life form.Beleiving this takes a great deal of faith.Have you ever wondered why you can walk outside and breath without having to wear some kind of oxygen suit? You can't do this anywhere else in the universe."

The last time I checked, humanity has not yet visited every planet in the universe to be able to judge whether or not there are other oxygen rich planets. Until we do, you cannot make the assumption that no such places exist.

Lets answer about the civil war. We have pictures and physical evidence. We're arguing two different ideas here. You're arguing your faith as fact rather than physical evidence as fact. If that's the case, prove to me that Adam and Eve existed. Prove to me that Eve came from a rib and prove to me that all the things or at least something from the bible is fact. Don't tell me that Jesus was real, maybe he was the dirt farmer neighbor to the rest of his disciples. Maybe the disciples were his drinking buddies at the tavern. Again, it's a belief, so why can't there be many gods and Achilles was real and there are immortals etc. I don't believe that either, but it's just an arguing point.

Scott - Evidence, either then or today, will never be found in science or theology. That's why it is FAITH. I know Jesus was thinking of me because when I call to Him, He is there. Even before I called to Him, He was working in my life and now that I've seen Him, I see the evidence. I can tell you my story but you have to discover the evidence for yourself. The Bible, your Pastor, your friends, your family can all lead you to the stream but you have to decide for yourself to drink.

JWS,CWilson is correct.You are also correct.Grace is a free gift to those who have Faith in what Jesus Christ accomplished on the cross.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 not of works, lest any man should boast.

Jesus is Lord.

Randy - Science knows that black holes exist, but has anyone ever seen one? Science knows that the universe began, but when and how? Science knows the universe is expanding, but to where and for how much longer? There is a lot that we believe in, that has scientific "proof", but all still remains supposition. One cannot prove there is or is not a God!
Religions are "road maps" for people who need help in moving forward towards whatever goal they would like. They are human creations based on multiple views: thus multiple religions. The position taken by so many of the (for want of a better word) non-believers that belief in God and a pathway for life is ignorant, mindless and unthinking, well that position is ignorant, mindless, unthinking and obnoxious. You are not superior because you do not believe, any more than you are superior because you do believe.

I believe in Balls and The Vag- not in an invisible man that lives in the clouds. Take your religion and stick it up your ass.

And what makes me believe that the Bible stories are true. That's faith. I agree Darwinism that we evolved. I have faith that that is our true creationism. The guy above would scare the hell out of my kids and probably his unless he brainwashed them to this fairy tale. Prove to me that it isn't a fairy tale. I need evidence. That's how I believe.

Based on CWILSON's response, then I believe there were war lords and fairies and wizards and gobblins that lived before too. I can't prove it, but you can't prove anything in the bible either. It's a book that was written. There were probably hundreds of books written before too. The bible or Christianity is the same as roman and greek mythology. Everything was written then too, why didn't that make it and paganism survive? Cause there were creepy and weird people that created these cults so that no other belief would be tolerated.

CWILSON, so I am required to ask for it? Which set of beliefs to I have to prescribe to? That doesn't sound free to me. When I give someone a gift. I don't require them to ask for it first.

A question for Mr. Ted:

How would you prove scientifically that the Civil War actually happened? What kind of evidence would you be looking for, before you would teach your kids about the Civil War?

"What I'm trying to say is leave it open for our children to decide, let's not make that decision for them."

I agree with that in principle, Mr. Ted. But as a parent myself, I still have to respect the wishes of parents who want to teach their children certain beliefs. That's because if I didn't, they wouldn't respect my wishes to teach my children to decide for themselves. Again, I'm talking about the beliefs themselves, as opposed to harm to other people caused by beliefs.

JWS - Grace is a gift and it is free because there is NOTHING you can do to earn it. It is freely available to all who will ask for it.

RASPBERRY said:Adam and Eve and apples and snakes, sounds like fantasy to me.
The true fantasy is beleiving you evolved from a rock or a single cell life form.Beleiving this takes a great deal of faith.Have you ever wondered why you can walk outside and breath without having to wear some kind of oxygen suit? You can't do this anywhere else in the universe.
Give God all the Praise and Glory He Deserves.

Cwilson,

You speak like you know something others don't.

I challenge you to provide a shred of evidence on why 2000 years ago Jesus was thinking about you, your sins, or anything related to reality today.

Note: please provide this evidence without quoting the Bible.

Bravo to the ones who see the tales of the bible as nothing more than what we consider the tales of Santa Clause or the Tooth Fairy or the Easter Bunny. One thing I hear that is disappointing is when people resort to believing in supernatural powers simply because the physical can not yet be explained. Alot of people forget that atoms and molecules, germs and bacteria, quasars and pulsars where not yet explainable/discoverable until a few hundered years ago! Imgagine that! So what if we can not explain our origins or the universe's orgins just yet. That does not mean we need to resort to supernaturalism. And for the ones who state that we MUST have been created by a supernatural being because everything is so complex. Again, you do not know what nature is capable of. Your experience with nature on Earth is simply a drop in the bucket compared to what is going on in the universe. Just because humans can not fathom the universe does not mean some other forces(non-supernaturl) is struggling like you.

I do like the counter-post to the person who tried to make gravity and electricty a faith based belief.

Randy - you can feel the affects of electricity & gravity but you can't actually see it. You know it's there because you see the affects. The same is true with God, I know he's there because I can see and feel his affects. It's not thought, it's truth, it's not luck, it's love. The problem is, until you have faith in it, you'll never see it. God is at work in our lives (believers & non-believers) everyday but you miss his daily gifts because you do not believe.

CWILSON, I thought Grace is free. You just put conditions on it.

If you have to think HARD about God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, then you don't have faith and you are missing His Grace. The Bible is everything you needed for life then and all you need for life today. Believing that there is a God is the easy part, having FAITH that he will do as he has promised is the tough part. But if he can sacrifice his one and only Son, then having Faith in him is the least that we can do. Open you HEART, stop at your local Motel and re-read his manual for LIFE. The earth is not your entire life, life will go on but will it be on the golden streets of Heaven or the firey pit of Hell. Those are your choices and there is ONLY 1 WAY to get to Heaven but many paths to Hell. You must believe Jesus is God's Son, that you ARE a sinner and that Jesus died for those sins. PERIOD. Because of the Grace of God, we don't have to be perfect, we just have to believe.

Just to prove my point, as stated earlier. This is like the telephone game. At first we started out on what to tell our children, now it has gotten into a discussion of perceived reality versus fiction. What I'm trying to say is leave it open for our children to decide, let's not make that decision for them.

Tonio,

I completely agree people have the right to their own faith.

Some people believe they can fly, but its wrong to teach children they can too.

Or just teach children that faith is what they believe personally, not that its true.

Scott, God is love. Love is relevant.

GTHOR, God is not condescention

Gthor,

People of faith are irrational by nature.

Remember, the great prophet Archie Bunker said:

"Faith is something that you believe that nobody in his right mind would believe"

Reason is not hostility.

Scott, what I'm really defending is the individual's right to his or her own faith. I can disagree with someone else's beliefs, but unless those beliefs cause them to act in ways that harm others, those beliefs are really none of my business. A Christian might insist that you are fooling yourself. Is it right for anyone to have that kind of contempt for people with different beliefs?

Wow. Some the hostility by some of these posts is matched only by their superficial understanding of the Bible and at times total ignorance of it. But that is what I have come to expect from non-Theists and secular progressives. They offer their own faith and state it as "fact". What SP's don't realize is that they are the true fundamentalists. They believe in their "religion" no matter what the evidence to the contrary and then accuse others of what they themselves do.
Note to those who are serious about finding the truth - the Bible can't just be read. It's not a novel and it's too deep and complex for a superficial reading. It has to be studied along with studying the history of the Bible. But too many SP's (who have never even picked up the book) just spew forth the usual accusations and
have nothing to back them up. You can't argue with them because their faith will never allow them to really be open to reason. The irony is that they project their own irrationality on people of faith. I guess it makes them feel better.
Now the replies will prove my point.

I also should add that there really is no reason to believe in Jesus or God anyway.

It has no bearing on real life or reality other than to create controversy about non-existant things for the purpose of trying to control other people.

I agree with Mike Dishnow's response. Very good.

Atheism is every bit as much a "belief" as any other religion. You believe X, I believe Y, they believe Z. You might argue that you can't quantify religion like you can things in science, but can you quantify emotion? Can you quantify an experience?

Ok, so tell me this then...we have a nuclear world war and everything is destroyed. A thousand years later, someone finds Darwins book on evolutionism and a copy of Harry Potter. You tell me that people who find it won't believe that these are true stories and how the world and beings evolved. Do you see my point. I don't believe that Adam and Eve existed. That's nonsense that someone came to be out of a rib. However being able to prove scientifically seems more logical and is what I will teach my children. I want them to be open as possible, but look at reality. Seriously consider what I wrote earlier in the posting. It will make you think of how we came across this "Good Book"