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Apple Festival
http://www.sparrowandjacobs.com/

What if you being from a remote village had never seen an 18-wheeler before? What if someone told you to stay out of the road because an 18-wheeler might run over you? What if you didn't listen because you didn't believe that 18-wheelers exist because of course you had no reason to. The absolute truth of the existance of God and his son Jesus being sent to die for you does not change if you choose not to believe. What if you continue to ignore the truth? What if you die today and woke up to judgement day? Will you wait until the 18 wheeler hits you before you believe? By then it will be too late. www.needGod.com

Some dopes wouldn't believe if God in all his glory came face to face.

I think you're on to something, Tomcat - go tell the Pope.

DW, I sure wish God had written in plain english, so dopes like me could understand.

Religious contraversy shall never end. Now was the Virgin Mary and Muhammad the SAME angel or two different angels. Which faith do you have?

TOMCAT, you're onto something big, no doubt about it. Then after Christians abused the power God gave them the same angel that WAS the Virgin Mary came back down to earth. It's new name was Muhammad and It's new assignment was to replace Christianity with the Muslim faith.

Yeah, that's it. They, Virgin Mary and Muhammad neither one were human. We can rest assurred that is so because both their bodies were carried off to heaven after they died. The evidence is both overwhelming and perfectly clear as well as having many reliable wittnesses to authenticate it.

Now about Joseph Smith...... He's just a faker because his body was NOT taken directly to heaven.

Everything is wonderful once the absolute truth is known. Faith is no longer required since we now have the absolute truth to guide us. Thanks a lot for the enlightenment.

Maybe this will help. http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul Unless of course thinking makes your head hurt.

I was thinking about the Immaculate Conception this morning, and if Mary was free from Original Sin, maybe she's not mortal. Perhaps she was an angel sent from Heaven to give birth the Jesus? After all, all mortals have the stain of Adam. That way the Assumption makes sense too, she dipped back into Heaven when her life was done.

Mentioned above:

>>...spoke to Moses and gave him the spiritual guidance needed to save the Jews from all sorts of things...

Not to forget the other 11 tribes of Israel. Those with knowledge of this history know that the Jews are descendents of the tribe of Judah. There were 11 other tribes. Moses saved, or more realistically put, according to the account - led, them also.

Phil C.

Its all in the bible. If one does exhaustive study using original hebrew/greek translations, lexicons, commentaries and the like, its amazing how you can get past the Thou and Thee mentality of the King James era (i.e. ...the KJV added words and, most importantly, changed words..many of them much more important than thee and thou). But that, of course, is just the start. In short, heres the way it seems to stack up: any who dont believe there is a God see those who do believe in something they cannot see as ridiculous. But the believer in God, sees that they have a wonderful gift of being able to plan, compile and create on a scale applicable to their knowledge, abilities and limitations- and along with that, hopefully, minds that are not so full of pride and arrogance to think mankind is the center of the universe and there just cannot be a being that can do the same on a higher level. Its all relative.

And to answer your question...well, I think you really know the answer to it. In the past, I recall some human adolescents asking the same question to an human adult.

Sorry, no implied arrogance here...only belief that there are absolutes beyond our human realm.

YOu seem to know a lot about what God's up to, DW. Are you God?

>>God's not going to repair the damage.

Ah, but in due time God WILL repair the damage of war and, additionaly, will not deny the atheist a chance to learn abundant living without war, along with the rest of those in the world who have never really known God...including those who think they know Him and deny Him.

still not SHOULD read still chose not NOTE I did say he acted like...I did not say he is...a subtle and meaningless difference unless you can get an Exorcist into the Oval Office or something. It would probaby be easier to Impeach his possessed rear-end. At least he would not pee on the rugs and vomit over everything.

Dear Lisa,
God Bless you. Every approach has been attempted with this Administration. Congress needs to do their appointed jobs and they need to honor their oaths to God and the American People who sent them to Office, either during this last election cycle or the previous one, it does not matter:

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.

If they still not to, they can go to hell right along with the President and his administration. I am tired of wasting time, as evidenced by lives and capital in all forms known and intangible. Our Children will suffer this fool if we do not stop his madness. I do not know what his problem is but he acts just like Lucifer...and I'll leave it right there because we have heard before and we chose NOT to pay any heed. Now you have been warned TWICE!

Slewis - Please consider that the reason for criticism might be justified and not simply ..." launched by angry souls that are likely in denial about their own inadequacies, short commings or failings."

Also please consider that what you see here is, in fact, "Free, open and honest debate and sharing of impulse, impression and feelings...." and that you may not be used to hearing such strongly dissenting views.

Regarding "any wonder we have wars" -- don't forget, that many wars throughout the centuries have been religious wars.

A constellation of views, just like that seen in the night sky with beaming stars. My secular friends that disdain god and religion still seek solace in meditation, zen, yoga, community, text and nature (and in many other arenas). I've god believing friends that share and connect with the same, but also embrace prayer. With battle axes the two groups do not attempt to dismember or annihlate the other. In spite of differences we still embrace and there is a good deal that we share in common. There seems to be such a disquieting rancor by those having contrary views to the guest commentators. I don't always agree either, but still I appreciate the writers attempt to sparkle and shine, and in most cases they do. Still there is a full spade of virulent criticism launched by angry souls that are likely in denial about their own inadequacies, short commings or failings. Free, open and honest debate and sharing of impulse, impression and feelings - that's how friends interact. And if some talk of prayer, it's acceptable. Thanks washington post moderators, and this panelist, for sharing valuable views. And I'm sorry that so many wallow in abject negativism, afraid to embrace, in spite of differences - any wonder we have wars.

Norrie,

Thank you for speaking on behalf of Lisa to answer a question posed to her that you’re not even sure is relevant. Then again, maybe you’ve simply jumped on an opening to air your talking points on your pet political issues?

I gather you have issues not only with President Bush, but also with the existence of God and the value of prayer.

Perhaps you won’t be too concerned then if people were to pray for you along with their prayers for the troops, for President Bush and for the Congressional leadership of the country.

Jim,

You wrote: "...I'm curious to know why it seems OK with you for Rep.Schwarz to pray for the troops, but not so for President Bush."

I'm not sure Lisa actually said that, but if she did, here's why it's not OK for President Bush to pray for the troops:

If I work hard to get the country to send American troops to war, through lying, false pretenses, deceit, and so on, so that I can work out my Oedipus Complex in order to feel that I'm bigger than my father, and tens of thousands of those troops are killed, blinded, burned, amputated, paralyzed, and neurologically and psychologically damaged beyong repair, without any positive benefit to the world, wouldn't you say there's something awfully wrong with my pretending to pray for them to a probably nonexistent god? God's not going to repair the damage.

Lisa,

Your article itself is inspirational. Thank you.

It seems to me that you genuinely got in touch with the true intent of the National Prayer Breakfast. Yes, I believe that people of many faiths and diverse politics can come together on common ground in the spirit of Jesus.

However, it seems that you were not content to stay with that feeling instead seemingly compelled to make a political statement in your last two paragraphs. Not to add to or provoke any divisiveness, but I'm curious to know why it seems OK with you for Rep. Schwartz to pray for the troops, but not so for President Bush.

Much better, in my humble opinion, to close with your eloquent thought that people can indeed be inspired "to feel the miracle—and the responsibilities—of human existence."

"That there is a time and place for talking about God in an earnest, personal, heartfelt way; that such talk is not, in itself, threatening or loaded; and that, if done honestly, with intelligence, humor and humility, can inspire people to feel the miracle—and the responsibilities—of human existence."

I can appreciate the sentiment behind that. I think "God" is a loaded word because our language and culture treat the word as a synonym for the Christian deity. Can the word be used to refer to the divine in general, even for polytheistic and pantheistic religions? Or should we use a different word with no cultural baggage? I believe all religions, regardless of what concept they use of the divine, have something to contribute to discussions about the miracles and responsibilities of human existence.

I to was at the NPB and I appreciate the above comments because I have been on both sides of the unbeliever/believer fence.I think that the idea of this NPB is that 1) it is not a religious event and 2) that if you read the Bible or Koran on the life of Jesus, that whether you accept him as God, or a prophet, or only a man, that he has truly set a standard that if we all followed we would have a better world. We all fall way short of any of that standard but what a great goal! Why don't we all stop the titles and the blame and try to hold each other accountable to a HIGHER standard than our own?

Bonnie,
Thank you for sharing that. Passing croissants, sugar and cream around during breakfast prayers is not so bad after all. One gets to know the others and to pray and hope for common concerns.

It is a start to get together and get pass pettiness over religious differences and hairsplitting on notions of God for believers. Only problem is it excludes non-believers.

Since non-believers deem believers to be the cause of all the problems of the world due to their beliefs, the breakfast prayers is a good initiative to find common ground. If I sound naive, that is because a believer sometimes is. Wish I was there.

I just returned from my first National Prayer Breakfast and felt it was one of the most moving experiences of my life. To those of you who were not there, the breakfast is truly non-denominational with people from many faith backgrounds - speakers were Jewish, Muslim as well as Christian - people who believe the world would be a better place if ALL people would treat each other with respect, civility, kindness and decency - as Jesus of Nazareth did. I find it encouraging that our national leaders get together (on their own time) to pray for one another and lift up one another without regard to political agendas. A very different concept than you hear from the press. I am so grateful to live in this country!

Bgone,

I'm sorry that I don't know much of anything about sun worship or the Aten.

It does occur to me that it's a bad thing that the object of worship degraded over time from the nice orange disk or hole of the sun, to the black hole of the Abrahamic religions.

I need to correct myself. Last evening I saw a program on "History International" where they distinguished between the "Aten" the God of Moses and the sun. Now just what is an/the Aten anyhow? They didn't show me a picture of it but I've seen pictures of a round orange ball with the "snake of God" on it that I was sure was both the sun and the Aten.

So Norrie, the Abrahamic God is the Aten, whatever that is. You don't suppose someone thought the sun is a hole? Maybe whoever noticed how light beams through a backlighted hole? Is that the source of "holy" God or is it the body part unique to females of a "female father" of all mankind? We do one and all come from that hole so at least the "parent" part "of all mankind" is correct. Holy Father? There's some things we just don't know.

You're the editor reporting on religion? No wonder your magazine has become so irrelevant! I guess that qualifies me to be an editor and reporter on science and automotive designing.

NORRIE HOYT - there too is an Abrahamic God, the sun. It's "the God of your (Moses) father" and it spoke to Moses and gave him the spiritual guidance needed to save the Jews from all sorts of things beginning right away and capped with what is commonly known as the holocost. It's all down hill from there, the holocost.

So there are enough fragment relics of "the" cross to rebuild the WTC. Miracles never cease. Big man, big cross. That one must have come from burger king, it's a whopper. Whopper, a very descriptive word I first heard when I tried to tell my mother the big mess wasn't mine.

Lisa Miller, maybe Mr Bush is reacting to a bit of archaeology proving the Bible and the Torah are both hoaxes. I'm sure he's tired of his words, 9-11-2001 being played back to him, "go to your churches, temples, synagogues, mosques and pray."

My best guess is the material proving the Bible is bogus is presently being reviewed. It would be a shame if an announcement came in the middle of an election with the Bible thumping of the Bush campaigns and it verified the information. I'm afraid the lessers will have to carry the cross until it becomes safe to do so again, if ever again.

If you don't already know then you must have been asleep or your good friend Sally has carelessly failed to mention it but you can see the synopsis of the material being reviewed at, http://www.hoax-buster.org page 2. There's a little more stuff at the web site, the kind that one might expect from a "dead again" Christian.

I see you agree with the notion that the National Prayer Breakfast may be a little over the top. So do I. It's mixing religion and government and now sience is being thrown into the stew. Happy days are here again.

And you sat and watched a group of powerful Washington leaders "pray," the same people who have sent thousands of people to their death in the past few years. Included in the group were probably Democrats, who have been mostly complicit in our nation's unwarranted killing. I bet there were executives from the tobacco industry in the audience, and those from the defense industry.

Wow. The self-delusion in this town is incredible.

Lisa Miller,

Many parents tell their children, and many psychologists tell grown-ups, that first impressions and hunches are usually right.

Your anticipatory qualms about being at this cabaret of the deluded, were accurate.

I could go on at length about how awful this annual charade is and why.

But I'm tired (see my lengthy posted comments on
Dr. Francis Collins - what he said is as whacky as his whacky nursery school teacher's act).

So I'll simply hope that you emerge from the entranced state you were seduced into (by what means I can't imagine!) and regain your reason and mental equilibrium.

Whatever did they do to you to get you to imagine there was some good in this show? Did the Vice President speak to you? I'll bet you still believe in the missing WMDs!

Best wishes.

P.S. There is no God, at least of the Abrahamic sort [i.e., the Cathars' "Ignorant Demiurge"]promoted by Islam, Judaism and Christianity, so an informed person would have nothing to talk about at the Prayer Breakfast. Glad I didn't have to go!

Thank you, Lisa

I feel as if I were there. The human spirit you describe is inspirational.

I hope that someday there will be as uplifting an event that isn't centered on believing, or in feigning belief, in a supernatural father who chose to sacrifice his earthly son.