All Comments (21)

Why so strident, anon?

Are you unhappy because only the neocons have the patent on calling their opponents Nazis? Or using Nazi analogies: "this is like Munich in 1938!"--Krauthammer does a nice line in the last. Or were you one of the geniuses who accused those who opposed the ill-fated invasion of being 'appeasers'? Or anti-Semites? Or, if they were Jewish, self-hating Jews? (No wonder you post anonymously!) For my part I am heartily SICK of all Nazi analogies:(I would include Rev. Artress here, 'pace' Rev Artress)

FIND SOME OTHER HISTORICAL PERIOD TO MISINTERPRET

is what I say! (ok, I know caps are rude, so no more).

This stuff about "the legally constituted government"--government??, government!--what is it governing???it can't control its streets does, however, show that you have some latent comic ability.

And as an aside,tell me, why are the anon-posters usually
1)atheists
2)supporters of the Iraq invasion and occupation
?

Exceptions to #1 are, of course, the evangelicals Chuck Colson and George Weigel, the latter masquerading as a Catholic and I do hope someday he returns to the Church.

Dear Labyrinth Lady,

Your Nazi analogy is so adorable!

What shameful mendacious drivel. Whether or not the original intervention was justified, we are now in Iraq under a UN mandate and at the invitation of the popularly elected, internationally recognized constitutional government, to assist it in establishing security and ending civil violence. You should be deeply ashamed and should immediately drop to your knees and beg forgiveness for this willfully ignorant and inexcusable lie.

Then go back to your labyrinths and your bong and your groovy hippie pals.

Re: Machiavelli vs Christ

Nonetheless Mr Duff, we are instructed to behave like Christ..."Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord. I will repay."

I know it is hard to grasp (and much easier to behave like Machiavelli, certainly the neocons--with their love of power--would have some truck with the author of "The Prince".) But Machiavelli only works if a select few behave as he instructs. If EVERYONE behaves as Niccolo would have then one gets......

Iraq?

Dear Rev Artress,

I was happy to see you here again, I came late to your previous article, but I still posted about my own 'fishy' miracle. I hope you saw it.

These comments on a 'just war' have a sense of deja vu about them, don't you think? If they didn't take in 2002 (when maybe they could have done some good), how can they help now? It reminds me of an old story in my 'auld sod':

Two English lords were out hunting and somehow managed to get thoroughly turned around, and as the afternoon wore on got more and more lost. Seeing a cottager carefully turning his spuds (potatoes), they rode over and hailed him: "I say, old man, what's the best way to get to Dublin?"
O'Brien thought about it some. "Well," he answered., "I wouldn't start from here."

As Mr. Machiavelli aptly put it (forgive the paraphrase): "If a people becomes too peaceful, a strong man will come along and cut their arms off".
Turning the other cheek is ok as long as there is someone strong around to keep the other guy from cutting off your cheek along with your head.

War is never just. War should not be an option, war is laziness.
Just war is not biblical. Does Jesus say anything about just war when he preaches the sermon on the mount? No, he says turn your cheak.

peace
Justin

It is important for people to understand that any one who just talks of PEACE is probably just as dangerous a revolutionary who has a agenda in the pursuit of his policy.
Wars will be fought.
3000 years of recorded history is more than a testimony.
And there can be something called a "just war" and more importantly there needs to be a "proper conduct of war."
My example will come from (1) Ali Bin Abu Talib, the 4th Khalifa of Islam : Asked why he always went to battle on his mule and not on his fast horse: he said "I will not run away from the field of battle and nor do I intend to chase and kill my enemies." Read his detailed letters to his military commanders (preserved at Topkapi Museum).
"Fear yourself more than than you fear the enemy, for the wrongs that might happen under your command".
(2) Saladin the great : Many of you may have seen the PBS documentary or the movie Kingdom of Heaven.
America's conduct of the war has been far from ethical. Mass killing by aerial bombings on civilian structures and civilian areas is to be deplored like the bombing of a Madrassa in Pakistan's Bajur area leaving 80 students dead.

I hope you will add my point about "proper conduct of war" to your concept of a "Just war."
And so Bush should abide by the Geneva convention.

Victoria,
Got it about the Hanuman bit the first time - the Monkey God in the Ramayana epic. Love that epic, and the love story of Rama and Sita there.

Yes, I am a monkey. Was born in the Year of the Monkey according to my Chinese friends. So be it -monkey see, monkey do.

Peace be upon you. I am off jetting again for this and that. You're on your own in this On Faith jungle. So many vicious types and beasts. But you can handle them all:)

warmest regards

Please forgive my sin of omission. God please Bless this humble, devote servant of Your Word, mother Artress. Keep her and hers in Your Love, and Light, and Peace, and Sight Forever. amen.

the hanuman reference purely in humor for your mischievous nature

A JUST WAR? DOES THE EMPEROR HAVE CLOTHES?
YES, I THINK THERE IS SUCH AN EVENT AS A ‘JUST’ WAR. BUT...for the so called neo-cons there is just war, and very little else.

"NATURALLY, THE COMMON PEOPLE DON'T WANT WAR, BUT AFTER ALL IT IS THE LEADERS OF THE COUNTRY WHO DETERMINE THE POLICY AND IT IS ALWAYS A SIMPLE MATTER TO DRAG PEOPLE ALONG.
excellent point. may I add to that the work of Goebbels? "There was no point in seeking to convert the intellectuals. For intellectuals would never be converted and would anyway always yield to the stronger, and this will always be 'the man in the street.' Arguments must therefore be crude, clear and forcible, and appeal to emotions and instincts, not the intellect. Truth was unimportant and entirely subordinate to tactics and psychology." Joseph Goebbels

From neo-con doctrine: "Neocons" believe that the United States should not be ashamed to use its unrivaled power – forcefully if necessary – to promote its values around the world. Some even speak of the need to cultivate a US empire. Neoconservatives believe modern threats facing the US can no longer be reliably contained and therefore must be prevented, sometimes through preemptive military action.

Please see the work of The Christian Science Monitor entitled Neo-Con 101 at http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/neocon/neocon101.html

POSTED BY THE REVEREND DR. LAUREN ARTRESS ON JANUARY 14, 2007 11:33 AM

respectfully submitted by Vulcan_7 for your consideration on this day Sunday January 14, 2007 20:00

jihadist

alrighty pasha-

but where do i go?

im irish and french and english and....

i saw the cutest bit on bbc about a man on an island off of cyprus- he lives there with his wife and goats and sheep and cows, and was defending it to the death- no one seemed particularly interestd in trying to take it from him (i think it was 15 miles wide) but if we adopt your plan- his not letting ANYONE on his island. so there has to be a provision for him-
peace you are the hanuman of jihadists

you said:

"Perhaps the American people are beginning to realize that the war on the streets of Baghdad is not going to be won by an increase in troops, as our stubborn President insists, but by finally sitting down with other world leaders to discuss how we can work together to end terrorism."

Are you now calling for the impeachment of President Bush for abuse of power and "high crimes and misdomeaners," or are you not?

Please be direct on this issue. And communicate your opinion directly to your senator and congressman today.

Thank you.

Victoria my friend!

I see you have been busy defending and fending off Bgone, Norrie Hoyt, Dodger etc, the permanent commentators in these On Faith thread.

Some of my thoughts for you on "just war", an oxymoron, and the Middle East situation :

The Israeli policy on the Palestinians is like the art of photography - just shoot them and see what develops.

So I propose a solution - the Greek Cypriots should return to Greece; the Turkish Cypriots should return to Turkey; and the whole island of Cyprus be given to the Palestinians.

I can't understand why the Greek Cypriots, the Turkish Cypriots and the Palestinians refused my proposal. It is simple and will bring about permanent peace. Darn! People are too attached to their lands.

I totally agree! I among others have been saying the same thing over and over, 'to end terrorism is to end injustice in social, economic, and political decisions giving rise to such atrocities as poverty, famine, diseases, violence and crime including terrorism.' Perhaps it might work when we start to quote these people no matter who they are...

"Oh yeah, "Thou shalt not kill" (unless of course someone other than me comes up with criteria that pre-empts my word)."

Felipe, read just a *tad* beyond the ten commandments in your Bible. You will find multitudinous examples of God *instructing* his people to kill...stoning to death disobedient children, homosexuals, adulterers, people who cut firewood on the Sabbath...not to mention all of the instructions to wipe out infidel cities - to put everything that breathes to the sword, men, women, children, animals.

Spare me your platitudes.

this is true, "the science of evil 'Primetime' recreation...how ordinary people can perform unthinkable acts" written by caroline borge abc news jan. 3, 2007 comes to mind.

Victoria:
Do not twist and pervert words else you'll be sued for patent infringment by the authorities.

in regards to his cabinet of yes men on the bove issue i mean

Actually yes, Felipe- go read- if you please- the post on WHAT ARE THE ORIGIN OF THE TERM JUST WAR?

And Gandhi, much as i respect and admire him- did help partition India and send the muslims north- (pakistan)if youll recall- a short term solution as he was well aware-

I am absolutely in earnest Ms. Artress- when bush was first in office i commented that he was like the emperor wearing his 'new clothes'.

that tickles me that you said that

Why is it that all of the panelists I have so far read think there is such a thing as a just war? History is repleat with examples of when war was effective to remove Hitlers and the like. And it would seem madame that you cite this as an example of why war is just, however, you don't cite peace as an alternative the most obvious being Muhatma Ghandi, and wasn't there that little thing that God said... What was it...?
Oh yeah, "Thou shalt not kill" (unless of course someone other than me comes up with criteria that pre-empts my word).