Professor American Jewish History, Brandeis University
"On Faith" panelist Jonathan D. Sarna is the Joseph H. & Belle R. Braun Professor of American Jewish History at Brandeis University and Director of its Hornstein Jewish Professional Leadership Program. Sarna served two terms as chair of Brandeis' Department of Near Eastern & Judaic Studies. He now chairs the Academic Advisory and Editorial Board of the Jacob Rader Marcus Center of the American Jewish Archives and is chief historian of the National Museum of American Jewish History in Philadelphia . Before returning to his alma mater to teach in 1990, Sarna was on the faculty of Hebrew Union College-Jewish Institute of Religion in Cincinnati from 1979-1990. There, he was Professor of American Jewish history and Director of the Center for the Study of the American Jewish Experience. He has also taught at Yale University , where he earned his doctorate in 1979, at the University of Cincinnati , and at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem . The Forward newspaper named Sarna one of America 's 50 most influential American Jews. He has written, edited, or co-edited more than 20 books, including the acclaimed American Judaism: A History, which won the Jewish Book Council's “Jewish Book of the Year Award” in 2004.
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Jonathan D. Sarna
Professor American Jewish History, Brandeis University
"On Faith" panelist Jonathan D. Sarna is the Joseph H. & Belle R. Braun Professor of American Jewish History at Brandeis University and Director of its Hornstein Jewish Professional Leadership Program. Sarna served two terms as chair of Brandeis' Department of Near Eastern & Judaic Studies.
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gaby- that was an interesting and lucid description of jacobs eclat.
i also had an illuminating experience many years ago- and i had a dream to sing the same song at the same time in unison and harmony to the same intended god-
this is what 1/5 of the world does every day now- more tha a billion people and they are muslims.
people never seem to get that the prayer is the most seminal and cohesive aspect of islam.
while you seem turned off by its abrahamic roots- that particular issue never either appealed to or repelled me.
to me its the most unified and natural expression in the world-
every year the largest gathering of human beings on the planet occurs united in purpose simply to praise god- (the hajj)
however anyone may react to abrahamic faiths-
that has got to count for something.
But you sure want to know a lot about me, Pliny...
Another attempt at slander (anti-semitism) by a zionist, go figure. Just because you question the influence of the second most powerful lobby in the US (AIPAC) does not mean you hate the jews.
Am I lying about AIPAC? Very, very powerful...
Zionism is a POLITICAL movement closely connected to neo conservatism - and one the should be distrusted by Americans.
Is Leo Strauss a Zionist? Yup.
Is he also the "godfather" of neoconservativism? Yup
Who were the other founders? Irving Kristol and Norman Podhoretz.
Favorite historian of neo cons: Bernard Lewis.
Who are the men who compose current neo-cons and planned this war are all zionists:
Feith, Perle, Wolfowitz, Abrams, Wurmser, Adleman, Scooter "jail bait" Libby, and Joe "im a traitor to my party" "lets attack Iran" Lieberman
Am I lying? Do you HONESTLY think that this fact, this influence, has not affect current policy in the ME?
Should Americans not question these connections to a foreign political entity? Why are you so defensive?
And finally, Pliny et all, why do you hate Muslims?
Also, Catholics? Why do you hate them?
As Stalin famously asked: How many divisions does the pope have?!
Careful, Sheikh Hamad bin Isa Al Khalifa's secret police might be tapping your e-mails. Your "fonting" appears to indicate you are a "bin Landener"? Homeland Security then also might be listening in.
Speed 123: You did not answer Travestere's question. Is your mother Jewish ? Are you flaming and trolling ? John mcCain does not rule out smacking Iran. Is he really a Jew ? A Zionist ? What is a Zionist ? Do you know ? Do you read David Duke web sites ? Do you think being a Zionist means you put Israel ahead of the USA? Why ? Are Catholics subsurvent to the the vatican or the USA ? Do Muslims support the Umma or the country they are citizians ? Is not the Talmud the old testament ? Is it the word of God ? If it is did not the big guy pick the Jews as chosen for respondsabilities and not privliges ? Why do mis-quote or just plain lie about everything you spew forth ? Please help all of us out speed123. Answer these questions. Please do not end with neo-con zionist hawk ! OK /
concerned
i have no interest whether anyone else let alone governments send money to palestinians. read the website and see how much you contribute to israel. more than 3 billion of your tax money every year so that they steal more land.
for your info bahrain is a dictatorship, thanks to americans and to british since last century (b4 911)with your 5th fleet stationed there 9b4 911)with the forced permission of shiekhs but not with any consultation or involvement of the inhabitants. can you convince your leaders to pack up and leave us alone? so much for your bravado about spreading democracy and your phoney faith about love. you do not know the meaning of the word.
tall me how much tolerance you have for others that do not share your faith or race? i would say zilch because you spew before they have even finished. thats you.
It doesn't matter to me who the underdog is. It's obvious to me that you don't believe the land belongs to Israel in the first place. I don't happen to agree with you. Who the underdog is has no bearing on it whatsoever.
As for the rest of your short-sighted blathering, I realize it takes in-your-face demonstrations of violence to prove we are in danger; I just pray it doesn't come to that for you or your loved ones. Thousands of others in this country and abroad haven't been so lucky. It's only been 6 years since 9/11 - do you really feel that much safer since then? You shouldn't.
"I'm not so sure. The latest cosmological discoveries show that there is far more "dark matter" and "dark energy" in the universe than visible energy and matter."
Maybe that shows you how many evil-doing souls were already were already sucked up by dark matter. :o)
I think that the reason why most Amerians look more favorably upon the Jews of Israel than the Arabs is because Arab culture seems so much more alien, strange, and generally off-putting. The main problem with Arab culture, from a Western ponit-of-view, is the mistreatment of women, and the "mind control" and "brain-washing" influence of Islam.
Equality of the men and women, and freedom of thought and relgion are fundamental requirements for Western acceptance. On these points, Western culture, and American culture is superior, and Arab culture is inferior. On this, there can be no compromise. Arab culture MUST change, or it will always be regarded among modern people, as backward and feudal.
Jim, you are taking the quote of of context, a great tactic of zionists like yourself.
I was replying to Gaby on WHO is more of an underdog is in this fight...
"The horrid treatment of the Palestinians, overt attempts to abuse and take land are not the actions of an underdog!"
Who do you think the underdog is in the 40 year occupation and subjugation of the Palestinians?
PS - did you see for Lieberman's (pro zionists hawk from CT) call for a pre emptive strike on Iran?
Interesting....that is exactly the neo con plan for the middle east and it is NOT in American interests.
They think 40 occupations are the way to go will secure our country!
Dont talk to me about security, Jim.
War on terror is propaganda meant to conjure up a battle against a unified enemy who is ready to "follow us home" and NOTHING could be further from the case.
It is used to justify war, tourture, bombing of civilians (esp in Afganistan) undemocratic activities and law at home.
We are not ISRAEL! We HAVE a constitution and bill of rights.
Iraqis are fighting occupiers for their freedom - perhaps 9 percent the Iraq war is against al queda.
"The horrid treatment of the Palestinians, overt attempts to abuse and take land are not the actions of an underdog!
3 billion dollars a year US taxfunded underdog that fights with tanks and fighter jets against palestinian teens with stones!
And billions more here in the US on propaganda against Muslims and the "war on terror""
Enough already. There are 2 sides to every story, and you always leave one side out. There has been suffering all around. And your first comment conveniently left the word "back" out of "take land".
Tanks and fighter jets against teens with stones? Being a bit dramatic, are you not? How ridiculous you sound. The media was very specific about showing those scenes of children throwing rocks, but you never did see those children being gunned down, did you?
Your putting "war on terror" in quotes implies that the threat of terror attacks does not exist. You are an even bigger fool if you believe this. It is well known that Iran is providing military aid and training to the Taliban. There are terror threats being followed and thwarted constantly; just because you personally do not know about them doesn't mean they do not exist.
"And yes, we are not born of sin, and we are capable of good and evil. But good in the end will triumph, because good happens in the light, evil is darkness."
I'm not so sure. The latest cosmological discoveries show that there is far more "dark matter" and "dark energy" in the universe than visible energy and matter.
On the other hand, darkness can also generate goodness. It was dark in Mary's womb.
The question was "does Bahrain" send monetary support to the Palestineans not whether you support the poor.
And what kind of government does Bahrain have? Hmmm, a Muslim kingdom!! Peace be upon His Majesty the King, Sheikh Hamad bin Isa Al Khalifa.
So your words are significantly influenced by the book of death, aka the koran. Delete its militaristic agenda, its anti-female passages, its references to "pretty wingie talking thingies" and all the plagiarized passages from the ancients (Hebrews, Babylonians, Greeks, Egyptians, Macedonians et al) and then get back to the commentary pages with a clean slate and then we will reconsider your faith in Allah/God/Zeus/Mother Nature.
i.e. that neo conservatism did not start as a liberal jewish ideology...
Prove that AIPAC is not the second most powerful lobby in the US...
I am not anti semitic -I am anti zionism in influencing American affairs.
You, and your ilk, can only slander because you know it is true.
Lieberman just called for an attack on Iran - right in line with neo cons Perle, Wolfie, KKKristol etc.
Also, read Cohen's column trying to link this middle east power play with WWII and of course he mentions the holocaust - even though it has NOTHING to do with the current geo politics.
your motto should be never ask why...you propaganda feed sheep
Concerned
Yes, I do help the poor whenever I can but your tax dollars support Israel as if they can do no wrong and always blame Palestinians as if they can never do right yet they are the victims if you have any slightest idea of history.
and google for US intervention in the Middle East before you go on like a broken record about how muslims are evil. You want to know evil, take a close look in the mirror man for whatever you say about another is your own fear and reflection. You might have eyes but you are blind in heart.
Yes I do blame UN but Jacob said he was forced out of Europe and now he has to fight the Arabs. Why does he have to do so if his gripe is with the Germans? Do you hit John if Peter has hit you?
Am I talking to idiots?
Jacob Eclati
You avoid the truth. You live in America and your allegiance is with Israel. The Zionist are good at PR and aligning their interests with American interests but any thinking person knows that the two interests are wide apart when it comes to Middle East. Involving yourself with the affairs of another country is what the American founders warned subsequent American governments. But The White House is also an occupied territory.
Oh, by the way, Jacob will publish a book on the internet later this year. Whether most can understand it is questionable. He has a tendency to speak in a different language. I, for my part will try to translate as good as I am capable of.
Yes, it does sound like brave new world, cheesy huh?
And yes, we are not born of sin, and we are capable of good and evil. But good in the end will triumph, because good happens in the light, evil is darkness.
Good night for now. Have to go to work early tomorrow.
Speed123 :I read in some other postings your mother is Jewish ? Is this true ? Are you really only trolling ? I can't believe you really BELIEVE the stuff you put out. Later, mein fur--er speed123.
Billions of US dollars spent by the US as anti-Muslim propagana? References-?
Who needs anti-Muslim propaganda anyway? The Shiite/Sunni butchering each other 24/7 is sufficient to make Islam a sham religion.
And I do believe we were giving significant funds to the Palestineans until the recent Hamas problems. How much money do the Saudi's give to support the Palestineans?
Thanks for the quick intro; interesting but the following sounds a bit Brave New World like:
"In order to do that, we need to appeal to the UN to create an all-inclusive system that humans can live by. This will help cut out extremism on all fronts."
OK, Speed 123, I will try to explain one more time:
I have never believed in organized religion, because I felt that none of them answered my questions. About 10 years ago, I sat outside with my daughter and we were identifying cloud formations and looking at nature. It was then that it hit me. There is no God of the Bible or any other holy scripture, there is a cosmic spirit, I call IT (= to God) that is in us and all around us. IT is in all animate and inanimate things. Since IT is all spirit, IT has given us the mandate to take care of all IT’s creation. The whole universe.
Then I met Jacob OnFaith, and it took me a long time to figure out what he was saying. He called himself an ECLATi-ON. One day I just got it! ECLAT= Great Brilliance Shining Forth (French word), the i is the individual us, ON simply means what it says. Therefore, Great Brilliance Shining Forth in us. There are ECLATi-ONs and ECLATi-OFFs. ECLATi-OFFs have no light shining from them, they are dark inside.
Considering that all life needs light and love, ECLATi-Ons , those who have the light in us, will simply merge with the Holy Cosmic Heartbeat. ECLATi-OFFs will be swallowed by a black hole. Black holes are so dense that nothing, not even light can escape them, but they do serve a purpose.
Jacob and I do not necessarily agree on everything, but in general we have our ducks in order.
Now, Jacob and I, believe that there must be a New Song (I.e., O.U.R.S. = One Universal Religious System) versus the Old Song (Abrahamic derived religions). In order to do that, we need to appeal to the UN to create an all-inclusive system that humans can live by. This will help cut out extremism on all fronts.
We believe in doing only good, because that is the only way to hang on to your ECLATi-ON status, with every evil deed, the light dies.
Therefore, we need our PHOTONS (light) to shine brightly so when we die we can become one with the Holy Cosmic Heartbeat. Now understand, we do not believe that we were born in sin, there is no such thing. Our deeds on this world show whether we have the light or not.
Because of this believe, we can associate well with the Pagans (Wiccans) whose creed is 1) Harm none!
2) All good that a person does to another returns three fold in this life; harm is also returned three fold.
There is more, but I think I have said all that I need for you to understand at least partially.
I have a tendency to fight for the underdog! The hate and misinformation spewed by some of the bloggers here is something that gets my blood boiling.
Unfortunately, then I lose my cool and go on the offensive!
As for your stance on Isreal. I think that the British made a huge mistake in 1948 and that the Holocaust was in no small measure a factor. But, now that Isreal has existed for nearly 60 years, it is a bit late to second-guess history.
As for my ECLATARIONISM, I don't belittle you Catholic faith, so please don't belittle mine.
While I generally agree with his responses here, I tend to disagree with this one. It has not been my experience that "study leads to action". Quite the contrary, I have found many old, very knowledgeable people who are quite proud of their knowledge, and very willing to bend you ear with it, but who are quite unwilling to take any action based on it.
Rabbi Akiba said that "when study comes first, the fulfillment of God’s commandments follows naturally." I happen to have many first-hand accounts of when this had NOT happened. Perhaps this is the way it used to be, but these days, when people are more interested in themselves, it isn't necessarily so.
Because of this, I cannot agree with Prof. Sarna's response to this question. Unfortunately, sometimes it is better for some people, just like children, to do first and learn why later.
St Paul in Romans 2 v 14 -16 explained that when Gentiles who do not have the law do the things in the law they not having the law are a law to themselves because the works of the law is written in their hearts , their conscience also bearing witness in the day when God judges the secrets of men by Jesus Christ .The two laws are Love the Lord thy God and thy neighbour. God judges the heart
St Paul in Romans 2 v 14 -16 explained that when Gentiles who do not have the law do the things in the law they not having the law are a law to themselves because the works of the law is written in their hearts , their conscience also bearing witness in the day when God judges the secrets of men by Jesus Christ .The two laws are Love the Lord thy God and thy neighbour. God judges the heart
Jacob, only people whose IQ is as low as 95 or lower do not understand what you are saying. Or is it they don't want to understand because they have been indoctrinated for too long?
Daniel, I can see how some of these posts would be embarrassing. However, with the exception of posts that are obscene, dishonest (e.g. the Franklin misquote above) or purposely cruel, reading different points of view can be very useful in understanding the existing range of belief and opinion.
Instead of trying to suppress these voices, maybe you could use this information to change the actions and opinions of people who talk and feel this way. Also, you and others like you could continue to be a voice here for the the more measured type of religious faith that you represent.
There such an underdog against the MIGHTY PALESTINIAN WAR MACHINE.
WHAT A JOKE!
Something to know about these so-called Jews.
On the Day of Atonement, these TALMUDIC JEWS do a prayers called the "Kol Nidre".
The "Kol Nidre" is a prayer in which they repeat three times that any promise or vow they make is not a promise or vow (Or in other words they can outright lie, no contract means anything verbally or otherwise if they can get out of it).
And further, the Talmud teaches that whenever you take an oath, vow or pledge, you are to remember the Kol Nidre prayer that you recited on the Day of Atonment.
Who can believe anything someone says (Like TALMUDIC JEWS), when their very prayers to their God ORDERS THEM TO LIE!????
Israel (KHAZARIA IN TRUTH), you need to wake up and stop acting like a fascists National Socialist NAZI EMPIRE.
You all would rather see some co-called JEW spout of against JEsus Christ, then to allow someone post something MEANINGFULL like EXPOSING THE EVIL TALMUD AND ITS LIES.
IF YOUR SO DAMN STUPID YOU WOULD RATHER STICK YOUR HEAD IN THE SAND THEN TO LEARN SOME TRUTH
LIKE the TALMUD = SICK PERVERSION
THEN YOU DESERVE TO BE SHEARED BY THE SO-CALLED JEW.
Once gain, this Jacob that writes his ECLO-STATIAN wack noodle stuff is an absolute mental case, I'm sure his IQ can not be more then 95.
This is what you wrote: "For that reason "Yonkil", they killed "All" OURS FAMILTY in Europe & Now Mid0-East. that I fought so hard for. And I never took anything from someone that did not belong to by blood sweat & tears..."
I truly want to understand where you come from. Please help me:
1. If your gripe was with Europeans and with Hitler in particular, then what brought you to Palestine?
2. Do you not think that it was your forceful stealing of Arab homes and lands that turned those people into your enemy?
3. In its short history, Israel has worked from a position of power and has reneged on any peace deals including the current one proposed by Saudis. Eben though as Palestinians acknowledged your right to exist in Oslos but wanted you to stop occupation you went crazy and occupied more Arab lands by force. Do you actually believe that you should give those homes stolen from Arabs back to their rightful owners?
4. Do you believe you have the right to the land more than the people who inhabited it for 100's if not a thousand years?
5. Even if we go by Torah (OT) that God gave this land to Jews, then there was also other tribes like Cannainites, etc. as we are also told. So, do you believe that todays Arabs deserve to be treated as jushua treated the roiginal inhabitants of the land?
6. Do you believe that you have the right to ethnically clean Palestine from all Arabs? And that 3 million refugees should never have the right to return to their homes but you and any other person who calls themselves a Jew have automatic right to call Israel home?
7. Do you believe that those who converted to Judaism like Kazars, Falashas and other Europeans also have the right to the land more than the indigenous people, just because they call themselves Jews?
8. Do you not see that most of these Palestinians also look like Jews? That they could have converted from Judaism to Islam and that some are indeed Christians? Such stories are aslo in Torah (OT) of tribes being forced to become second class Jews to be saved from death. Indeed Jewish converts can never have the same status in Israel as full-blooded Jews but they help demography and are encouraged to live on stolen lands. Do you approve of such apartheid system?
9. Do you accept Christianity and Islam as an extension of Judaism by accommodating them in order to provide for peace and harmony OR do you believe in The Supreme Sate of Israel from Nile to Euphrates and all the wealth belonging to you?
10. Finally. Do you know that Islam accepts your faith as well as Christianity yet you reject both. Does this stem from wishing to remain pure? Thus believing you are superior?
I want to repeat that I only wish to know your views, as I have seen mayhem over my life of 57 years and have read much of your positings but still can't work you out. I wish to see people united for the sake of peace by accommodating each other. Islamic history is full of co-operation between Muslims and Jews and Christians yet much hatred exists today because of various political and fanatic factions. I believe in dignity of human and feel that can only be achieved by respecting and valuing everyone as oneslef. That is indeed my religion, if ever I choose to have one. To live and let live and promote peace wherever I go.
With all these antisemites attacking the Talmud you might want to sympathize with it. Not on your life! The Talmud was designed to fence the Jews off from everyone else; it is therefore responsible for the misery of Jewish life. The Jews were forced into an unhealthy, neurotic existence. Of course the rabbis were right to reject Jesus but the means they used to keep Jews away from Christian ideas were self defeating.
Merry Met, PaganPlace. I guess we use Jesus' words to expose the hypocrisy of some of his supposed followers. This is the man who said, " Love each other as I have loved you" (John 15:12). No qualifiers there, no "only if they're Christian", no "unless they're jewish, or muslim, or pagan, or black, or gay, etc." Yet some "Christians" can be so inventive in the ways they HATE.
If you're going to tell me how to run my house, then YOUR house had better damn sight be in order.
Why in the Holy Holly Hel are we always the ones talking about what Jesus supposedly said, when the 'Christians' are always 'proving' he "really meant" the opposite?
Would you Christian guys look at yourselves, already? You're embarrassing my Christian ancestors.
Mostly Catholic. Probably all pretty embarrassed right around now, regardless. But what can you do.
Anyway, Kenneth, in some ways, this hate *is* the news... What's also the news is who else speaks, and how... and who, if they're out there... doesn't.
It's also, admittedly, getting really boring.
But then again, that's how they get you: make the facts boring and the 'truth' too repulsive to look at, it'd seem.
I made the comment about the Catholic Supreme Court Justices and the possible Vatican influence in jest.
Raised a Catholic and still going to Mass on Sunday. The only difference now is that I have been "Crossanized" in recent years. Call me a Catholic of the New Reality but still Catholic and giving monetary support as needed to the basic spread of the Good Word but without the claims that is the only Good Word.
Opus dei good;zionism bad. Illuminati good; zionism bad. Catholic Ireland, Spain,Italy good;Jewish Israel bad. Church of England,Scotland good;Jewish Israel bad. Islamic Syria,Saudi Arabia,Palestine Malaysia et al, et al good; Jewish Israel bad. 1.5 billion Muslims good; 12 million Jews bad. 2 billion Christians good; 12 million Jews bad. Hindu India good,Buddist Thailand, good; Jewish Israel bad. Hamas political movement,Salafist,Wasahabi,David Duke good; Zionism bad. Catholics and Vatican good; Jews and Israel bad; IRA and Ireland good; Jews and Zionism bad. Armenian,Turkish,Greek,Irish, British lobbies good;Iraeli lobbies bad. Catholic intellectual movements good; Jewish intellectual movements bad. Irish and Ireland ;Greeks and Greece;Italians and Italy good, no dual loyalty. Jews and Israel, dual loyalty, dual loyalty. I think I got it speed123,anonymous xyz.Later, mein fur--err gang !
from "Jewish Intellectuals and the Shaping of Public Policy" by Murray Friedman:
"Acknowledging the Jewishness of neoconservatism has always triggered the red, flashing lights of antisemitism, especially since the start of the Iraq War (with extra points if it's Pat Buchanan doing the acknowledging). But there is some truth to the suspicion. If there is an intellectual movement in America to whose invention Jews can lay sole claim, neoconservatism is it. It's a thought one imagines most American Jews, overwhelmingly liberal, will find horrifying. And yet it is a fact that as a political philosophy, neoconservatism was born among the children of Jewish immigrants and is now largely the intellectual domain of those immigrants' grandchildren. Understanding what might be Jewish about this movement (or "persuasion" as its godfather, Irving Kristol, prefers it be called) should be possible without being accused of conspiracy theorizing about secret cabals pulling strings for Israel."
Some good points; however, there is no Catholic homeland (despite what Concerned says) and considering the actions of these pro-israeli americans at high levels of government - I think that it would be insane not to address this issue out in the open.
It does not happen in the press and this is a problem for everyone involved and if it does - like the article above about Israeli influence - then it is shot down by the media and loud mouths as anti semitic.
This contributor is fair game as he has justified the war.
Americans have every right to question - if we dont then we will keep making the same mistakes (ie IRAN)
Speed123
It's a touchy issue and I'm not sure it needs to be brought up every time a Jewish commentator posts a column.
Do you think it would be safe to suggest a question about Zionism and Anti-Semitism in the middle east and elsewhere, or would it bring too many unthinking zealots out of the woodwork?
Also, I see some relation to arguments about Latin American immigration. Are Jewish leaders too loyal to Israel? Are Latinos too loyal to their "raza"? Does ethnic pride of many kinds make the U.S. too fra
All Comments (115)
gaby- that was an interesting and lucid description of jacobs eclat.
i also had an illuminating experience many years ago- and i had a dream to sing the same song at the same time in unison and harmony to the same intended god-
this is what 1/5 of the world does every day now- more tha a billion people and they are muslims.
people never seem to get that the prayer is the most seminal and cohesive aspect of islam.
while you seem turned off by its abrahamic roots- that particular issue never either appealed to or repelled me.
to me its the most unified and natural expression in the world-
every year the largest gathering of human beings on the planet occurs united in purpose simply to praise god- (the hajj)
however anyone may react to abrahamic faiths-
that has got to count for something.
June 24, 2007 12:36 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 24, 2007 00:36
"Is not the Talmud the old testament ? "
You must not be Jewish, this is a stupid question.
It is seperate from the OT and these rabbinic teaching/laws are held above it.
June 13, 2007 12:49 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 13, 2007 00:49
What is this? Tag-team?
But you sure want to know a lot about me, Pliny...
Another attempt at slander (anti-semitism) by a zionist, go figure. Just because you question the influence of the second most powerful lobby in the US (AIPAC) does not mean you hate the jews.
Am I lying about AIPAC? Very, very powerful...
Zionism is a POLITICAL movement closely connected to neo conservatism - and one the should be distrusted by Americans.
Is Leo Strauss a Zionist? Yup.
Is he also the "godfather" of neoconservativism? Yup
Who were the other founders? Irving Kristol and Norman Podhoretz.
Favorite historian of neo cons: Bernard Lewis.
Who are the men who compose current neo-cons and planned this war are all zionists:
Feith, Perle, Wolfowitz, Abrams, Wurmser, Adleman, Scooter "jail bait" Libby, and Joe "im a traitor to my party" "lets attack Iran" Lieberman
Am I lying? Do you HONESTLY think that this fact, this influence, has not affect current policy in the ME?
Should Americans not question these connections to a foreign political entity? Why are you so defensive?
And finally, Pliny et all, why do you hate Muslims?
Also, Catholics? Why do you hate them?
As Stalin famously asked: How many divisions does the pope have?!
0
How many divisions does Israel have?
June 13, 2007 12:45 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 13, 2007 00:45
Ahmed,
Careful, Sheikh Hamad bin Isa Al Khalifa's secret police might be tapping your e-mails. Your "fonting" appears to indicate you are a "bin Landener"? Homeland Security then also might be listening in.
June 12, 2007 11:48 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 12, 2007 23:48
Speed 123: You did not answer Travestere's question. Is your mother Jewish ? Are you flaming and trolling ? John mcCain does not rule out smacking Iran. Is he really a Jew ? A Zionist ? What is a Zionist ? Do you know ? Do you read David Duke web sites ? Do you think being a Zionist means you put Israel ahead of the USA? Why ? Are Catholics subsurvent to the the vatican or the USA ? Do Muslims support the Umma or the country they are citizians ? Is not the Talmud the old testament ? Is it the word of God ? If it is did not the big guy pick the Jews as chosen for respondsabilities and not privliges ? Why do mis-quote or just plain lie about everything you spew forth ? Please help all of us out speed123. Answer these questions. Please do not end with neo-con zionist hawk ! OK /
June 12, 2007 11:25 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 12, 2007 23:25
"your phoney faith about love" "can you convince your leaders to pack up and leave us alone?"
Easy now, Ahmed, and how about YOU try to convince your leaders...peacefully.
How about a little personal responsibility...on all sides?
We blame "terrorists" or "islamofascists" and then do awful things
They blame the "great satan" or the "west" and then do similarly awful things.
Much harder for everyone to look inward for causes and understanding of the other side.
God knows our politicians wont do it for us -- much easier to point and shout at an external evil.
June 12, 2007 7:23 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 12, 2007 19:23
concerned
i have no interest whether anyone else let alone governments send money to palestinians. read the website and see how much you contribute to israel. more than 3 billion of your tax money every year so that they steal more land.
for your info bahrain is a dictatorship, thanks to americans and to british since last century (b4 911)with your 5th fleet stationed there 9b4 911)with the forced permission of shiekhs but not with any consultation or involvement of the inhabitants. can you convince your leaders to pack up and leave us alone? so much for your bravado about spreading democracy and your phoney faith about love. you do not know the meaning of the word.
tall me how much tolerance you have for others that do not share your faith or race? i would say zilch because you spew before they have even finished. thats you.
June 12, 2007 7:05 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 12, 2007 19:05
"It's obvious to me that you don't believe the land belongs to Israel in the first place."
Which land, Jim? The West Bank etc. that was occupied in 1967?
Is this a biblical children's game, "We had it first...a thousand years ago"
June 12, 2007 6:11 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 12, 2007 18:11
Jim the fear monger reminds us:
"It's only been 6 years since 9/11"
Where have I heard this before....?
Ah, now I remember.....from this war mongering NeoCon-led administration ALL MOST EVERY OTHER DAY!
Every action - from tourture, to illeagal occupation - has been justified by 9/11 and has DEBASED the memory of those souls who died that day.
Jim, stop regurgitating the propaganda you get from the press sec. or the media.
Grow a pair and learn to think for yourself...
Unless, of course, you are only thinking about the fate of Israel...then your propaganda and scare tactics are perfect for your mission at hand.
March onward...to Iran...American boys and girls
Lieberman is all for it.
June 12, 2007 5:37 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 12, 2007 17:37
speed123:
It doesn't matter to me who the underdog is. It's obvious to me that you don't believe the land belongs to Israel in the first place. I don't happen to agree with you. Who the underdog is has no bearing on it whatsoever.
As for the rest of your short-sighted blathering, I realize it takes in-your-face demonstrations of violence to prove we are in danger; I just pray it doesn't come to that for you or your loved ones. Thousands of others in this country and abroad haven't been so lucky. It's only been 6 years since 9/11 - do you really feel that much safer since then? You shouldn't.
June 12, 2007 5:10 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 12, 2007 17:10
Norrie,
"I'm not so sure. The latest cosmological discoveries show that there is far more "dark matter" and "dark energy" in the universe than visible energy and matter."
Maybe that shows you how many evil-doing souls were already were already sucked up by dark matter. :o)
June 12, 2007 4:39 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 12, 2007 16:39
I think that the reason why most Amerians look more favorably upon the Jews of Israel than the Arabs is because Arab culture seems so much more alien, strange, and generally off-putting. The main problem with Arab culture, from a Western ponit-of-view, is the mistreatment of women, and the "mind control" and "brain-washing" influence of Islam.
Equality of the men and women, and freedom of thought and relgion are fundamental requirements for Western acceptance. On these points, Western culture, and American culture is superior, and Arab culture is inferior. On this, there can be no compromise. Arab culture MUST change, or it will always be regarded among modern people, as backward and feudal.
June 12, 2007 4:14 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 12, 2007 16:14
Jim, you are taking the quote of of context, a great tactic of zionists like yourself.
I was replying to Gaby on WHO is more of an underdog is in this fight...
"The horrid treatment of the Palestinians, overt attempts to abuse and take land are not the actions of an underdog!"
Who do you think the underdog is in the 40 year occupation and subjugation of the Palestinians?
PS - did you see for Lieberman's (pro zionists hawk from CT) call for a pre emptive strike on Iran?
Interesting....that is exactly the neo con plan for the middle east and it is NOT in American interests.
They think 40 occupations are the way to go will secure our country!
Dont talk to me about security, Jim.
War on terror is propaganda meant to conjure up a battle against a unified enemy who is ready to "follow us home" and NOTHING could be further from the case.
It is used to justify war, tourture, bombing of civilians (esp in Afganistan) undemocratic activities and law at home.
We are not ISRAEL! We HAVE a constitution and bill of rights.
Iraqis are fighting occupiers for their freedom - perhaps 9 percent the Iraq war is against al queda.
Keep buying that propaganda...
June 12, 2007 4:07 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 12, 2007 16:07
speed123 wrote:
"The horrid treatment of the Palestinians, overt attempts to abuse and take land are not the actions of an underdog!
3 billion dollars a year US taxfunded underdog that fights with tanks and fighter jets against palestinian teens with stones!
And billions more here in the US on propaganda against Muslims and the "war on terror""
Enough already. There are 2 sides to every story, and you always leave one side out. There has been suffering all around. And your first comment conveniently left the word "back" out of "take land".
Tanks and fighter jets against teens with stones? Being a bit dramatic, are you not? How ridiculous you sound. The media was very specific about showing those scenes of children throwing rocks, but you never did see those children being gunned down, did you?
Your putting "war on terror" in quotes implies that the threat of terror attacks does not exist. You are an even bigger fool if you believe this. It is well known that Iran is providing military aid and training to the Taliban. There are terror threats being followed and thwarted constantly; just because you personally do not know about them doesn't mean they do not exist.
June 12, 2007 2:56 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 12, 2007 14:56
Gaby,
You wrote:
"And yes, we are not born of sin, and we are capable of good and evil. But good in the end will triumph, because good happens in the light, evil is darkness."
I'm not so sure. The latest cosmological discoveries show that there is far more "dark matter" and "dark energy" in the universe than visible energy and matter.
On the other hand, darkness can also generate goodness. It was dark in Mary's womb.
"Even the night shall blossom as the rose."
June 12, 2007 2:15 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 12, 2007 14:15
Amed,
The question was "does Bahrain" send monetary support to the Palestineans not whether you support the poor.
And what kind of government does Bahrain have? Hmmm, a Muslim kingdom!! Peace be upon His Majesty the King, Sheikh Hamad bin Isa Al Khalifa.
So your words are significantly influenced by the book of death, aka the koran. Delete its militaristic agenda, its anti-female passages, its references to "pretty wingie talking thingies" and all the plagiarized passages from the ancients (Hebrews, Babylonians, Greeks, Egyptians, Macedonians et al) and then get back to the commentary pages with a clean slate and then we will reconsider your faith in Allah/God/Zeus/Mother Nature.
June 12, 2007 9:04 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 12, 2007 09:04
Travestere states:
"Yo mama"
Good come back, buddy.
Prove me wrong...
i.e. that neo conservatism did not start as a liberal jewish ideology...
Prove that AIPAC is not the second most powerful lobby in the US...
I am not anti semitic -I am anti zionism in influencing American affairs.
You, and your ilk, can only slander because you know it is true.
Lieberman just called for an attack on Iran - right in line with neo cons Perle, Wolfie, KKKristol etc.
Also, read Cohen's column trying to link this middle east power play with WWII and of course he mentions the holocaust - even though it has NOTHING to do with the current geo politics.
your motto should be never ask why...you propaganda feed sheep
June 12, 2007 2:58 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 12, 2007 02:58
Concerned
Yes, I do help the poor whenever I can but your tax dollars support Israel as if they can do no wrong and always blame Palestinians as if they can never do right yet they are the victims if you have any slightest idea of history.
Pls visit:
http://ifamericansonlyknew.com/
and google for US intervention in the Middle East before you go on like a broken record about how muslims are evil. You want to know evil, take a close look in the mirror man for whatever you say about another is your own fear and reflection. You might have eyes but you are blind in heart.
Yes I do blame UN but Jacob said he was forced out of Europe and now he has to fight the Arabs. Why does he have to do so if his gripe is with the Germans? Do you hit John if Peter has hit you?
Am I talking to idiots?
Jacob Eclati
You avoid the truth. You live in America and your allegiance is with Israel. The Zionist are good at PR and aligning their interests with American interests but any thinking person knows that the two interests are wide apart when it comes to Middle East. Involving yourself with the affairs of another country is what the American founders warned subsequent American governments. But The White House is also an occupied territory.
Man and I thought this site was about faith!!!
June 12, 2007 12:28 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 12, 2007 00:28
Oh, by the way, Jacob will publish a book on the internet later this year. Whether most can understand it is questionable. He has a tendency to speak in a different language. I, for my part will try to translate as good as I am capable of.
He is one smart cookie, make no mistake.
June 12, 2007 12:26 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 12, 2007 00:26
Speed123,
Yes, it does sound like brave new world, cheesy huh?
And yes, we are not born of sin, and we are capable of good and evil. But good in the end will triumph, because good happens in the light, evil is darkness.
Good night for now. Have to go to work early tomorrow.
June 12, 2007 12:20 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 12, 2007 00:20
Oops,
Make that anti-Muslim propaganda.
June 12, 2007 12:09 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 12, 2007 00:09
Speed123 :I read in some other postings your mother is Jewish ? Is this true ? Are you really only trolling ? I can't believe you really BELIEVE the stuff you put out. Later, mein fur--er speed123.
June 11, 2007 11:38 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 11, 2007 23:38
Speed123,
Billions of US dollars spent by the US as anti-Muslim propagana? References-?
Who needs anti-Muslim propaganda anyway? The Shiite/Sunni butchering each other 24/7 is sufficient to make Islam a sham religion.
And I do believe we were giving significant funds to the Palestineans until the recent Hamas problems. How much money do the Saudi's give to support the Palestineans?
June 11, 2007 11:37 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 11, 2007 23:37
PS - if there is no sin, what makes human capable of evil?
If sin was not already "in" us, where did it come from?
I believe, obviously, that we are both good and evil from the start.
June 11, 2007 9:09 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 11, 2007 21:09
Thanks for the quick intro; interesting but the following sounds a bit Brave New World like:
"In order to do that, we need to appeal to the UN to create an all-inclusive system that humans can live by. This will help cut out extremism on all fronts."
June 11, 2007 9:02 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 11, 2007 21:02
OK, Speed 123, I will try to explain one more time:
I have never believed in organized religion, because I felt that none of them answered my questions. About 10 years ago, I sat outside with my daughter and we were identifying cloud formations and looking at nature. It was then that it hit me. There is no God of the Bible or any other holy scripture, there is a cosmic spirit, I call IT (= to God) that is in us and all around us. IT is in all animate and inanimate things. Since IT is all spirit, IT has given us the mandate to take care of all IT’s creation. The whole universe.
Then I met Jacob OnFaith, and it took me a long time to figure out what he was saying. He called himself an ECLATi-ON. One day I just got it! ECLAT= Great Brilliance Shining Forth (French word), the i is the individual us, ON simply means what it says. Therefore, Great Brilliance Shining Forth in us. There are ECLATi-ONs and ECLATi-OFFs. ECLATi-OFFs have no light shining from them, they are dark inside.
Considering that all life needs light and love, ECLATi-Ons , those who have the light in us, will simply merge with the Holy Cosmic Heartbeat. ECLATi-OFFs will be swallowed by a black hole. Black holes are so dense that nothing, not even light can escape them, but they do serve a purpose.
Jacob and I do not necessarily agree on everything, but in general we have our ducks in order.
Now, Jacob and I, believe that there must be a New Song (I.e., O.U.R.S. = One Universal Religious System) versus the Old Song (Abrahamic derived religions). In order to do that, we need to appeal to the UN to create an all-inclusive system that humans can live by. This will help cut out extremism on all fronts.
We believe in doing only good, because that is the only way to hang on to your ECLATi-ON status, with every evil deed, the light dies.
Therefore, we need our PHOTONS (light) to shine brightly so when we die we can become one with the Holy Cosmic Heartbeat. Now understand, we do not believe that we were born in sin, there is no such thing. Our deeds on this world show whether we have the light or not.
Because of this believe, we can associate well with the Pagans (Wiccans) whose creed is 1) Harm none!
2) All good that a person does to another returns three fold in this life; harm is also returned three fold.
There is more, but I think I have said all that I need for you to understand at least partially.
June 11, 2007 8:18 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 11, 2007 20:18
The horrid treatment of the Palestinians, overt attempts to abuse and take land are not the actions of an underdog!
3 billion dollars a year US taxfunded underdog that fights with tanks and fighter jets against palestinian teens with stones!
3 billion to ruin our American foreign relations!
And billions more here in the US on propaganda against Muslims and the "war on terror"
You wonder why someone can be upset about this situation.........
In any case, I have no idea what ECLATARIONISM is...but I am all for it!
Perhaps you and Jacob should explain a bit of it to the rest of us.
June 11, 2007 5:00 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 11, 2007 17:00
SPEED123:
I have a tendency to fight for the underdog! The hate and misinformation spewed by some of the bloggers here is something that gets my blood boiling.
Unfortunately, then I lose my cool and go on the offensive!
As for your stance on Isreal. I think that the British made a huge mistake in 1948 and that the Holocaust was in no small measure a factor. But, now that Isreal has existed for nearly 60 years, it is a bit late to second-guess history.
As for my ECLATARIONISM, I don't belittle you Catholic faith, so please don't belittle mine.
June 11, 2007 2:47 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 11, 2007 14:47
Listen to reason:
Thank you! I need to get my German temper under control!
Some people just get under my sking with their condescending tone and pompous behavior!
Although I do not believe in your Jesus, I like this:
"“The tongue ... is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. We use it to say, ‘Praise to our Lord and Father’; then use it to curse men ..."
I'll try to keep my poison to myself.
June 11, 2007 2:32 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 11, 2007 14:32
Todays little sermonette for all the Posters and Readers here:
To love God and love one's neighbor is the heart of God's word.
Jesus taught we must fulfill the law but not harden ourselves to the law’s heart:
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets. I have come, not to abolish them, but to fulfill them."
But He also said, “the heart of the law is mercy.”
AND
“The tongue ... is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. We use it to say, ‘Praise to our Lord and Father’; then use it to curse men ..."
June 11, 2007 2:15 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 11, 2007 14:15
My two cents comment on Prof. Sarna's response:
While I generally agree with his responses here, I tend to disagree with this one. It has not been my experience that "study leads to action". Quite the contrary, I have found many old, very knowledgeable people who are quite proud of their knowledge, and very willing to bend you ear with it, but who are quite unwilling to take any action based on it.
Rabbi Akiba said that "when study comes first, the fulfillment of God’s commandments follows naturally." I happen to have many first-hand accounts of when this had NOT happened. Perhaps this is the way it used to be, but these days, when people are more interested in themselves, it isn't necessarily so.
Because of this, I cannot agree with Prof. Sarna's response to this question. Unfortunately, sometimes it is better for some people, just like children, to do first and learn why later.
June 11, 2007 2:08 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 11, 2007 14:08
St Paul in Romans 2 v 14 -16 explained that when Gentiles who do not have the law do the things in the law they not having the law are a law to themselves because the works of the law is written in their hearts , their conscience also bearing witness in the day when God judges the secrets of men by Jesus Christ .The two laws are Love the Lord thy God and thy neighbour. God judges the heart
June 11, 2007 1:33 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 11, 2007 13:33
St Paul in Romans 2 v 14 -16 explained that when Gentiles who do not have the law do the things in the law they not having the law are a law to themselves because the works of the law is written in their hearts , their conscience also bearing witness in the day when God judges the secrets of men by Jesus Christ .The two laws are Love the Lord thy God and thy neighbour. God judges the heart
June 11, 2007 1:33 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 11, 2007 13:33
Gaby screams:
"speed123, How dare you!!! You on earth do you think you are, you nincompoop!
DONT YOU EVER, tell people to get lost. This is a public board and EVERYONE has a right to speak their mind without your hate spewing forth."
I dont think my brush-off of paganplace is what got you upset...
I think it is my critique of Israel as a modern state and the obvious influence in American politics and our current hellish experience in IRAQ.
IRAN here we come....just ask Sen. Lieberman.
Keep crying wolf, we all know how that story ends.
As for Jozevz Eclat in Shiloha Is Sholoma, you two were made for each other. Typical tribal elitists.
June 11, 2007 1:32 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 11, 2007 13:32
Peacetroll:
You really shouldn't comment on things you don't know about.
The Kol Nidre deals with vows between man and God, not vows made between men.
You really should take a little time to check things out before spreading lies.
June 11, 2007 1:25 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 11, 2007 13:25
Jacob, only people whose IQ is as low as 95 or lower do not understand what you are saying. Or is it they don't want to understand because they have been indoctrinated for too long?
I know you, my Brother ECLATi-ON, never OFF!
May your PHOTONS always shine brightly!
June 11, 2007 11:42 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 11, 2007 11:42
Daniel, I can see how some of these posts would be embarrassing. However, with the exception of posts that are obscene, dishonest (e.g. the Franklin misquote above) or purposely cruel, reading different points of view can be very useful in understanding the existing range of belief and opinion.
Instead of trying to suppress these voices, maybe you could use this information to change the actions and opinions of people who talk and feel this way. Also, you and others like you could continue to be a voice here for the the more measured type of religious faith that you represent.
June 11, 2007 11:35 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 11, 2007 11:35
Poor Israel,
There such an underdog against the MIGHTY PALESTINIAN WAR MACHINE.
WHAT A JOKE!
Something to know about these so-called Jews.
On the Day of Atonement, these TALMUDIC JEWS do a prayers called the "Kol Nidre".
The "Kol Nidre" is a prayer in which they repeat three times that any promise or vow they make is not a promise or vow (Or in other words they can outright lie, no contract means anything verbally or otherwise if they can get out of it).
And further, the Talmud teaches that whenever you take an oath, vow or pledge, you are to remember the Kol Nidre prayer that you recited on the Day of Atonment.
Who can believe anything someone says (Like TALMUDIC JEWS), when their very prayers to their God ORDERS THEM TO LIE!????
Israel (KHAZARIA IN TRUTH), you need to wake up and stop acting like a fascists National Socialist NAZI EMPIRE.
June 11, 2007 8:56 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 11, 2007 08:56
Yea,
I see what your saying about Jacob JOZEVZ, some pretty stupid blogs he writes.
June 11, 2007 8:51 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 11, 2007 08:51
Jacob is literally a babbling idiot.
You all would rather see some co-called JEW spout of against JEsus Christ, then to allow someone post something MEANINGFULL like EXPOSING THE EVIL TALMUD AND ITS LIES.
IF YOUR SO DAMN STUPID YOU WOULD RATHER STICK YOUR HEAD IN THE SAND THEN TO LEARN SOME TRUTH
LIKE the TALMUD = SICK PERVERSION
THEN YOU DESERVE TO BE SHEARED BY THE SO-CALLED JEW.
Once gain, this Jacob that writes his ECLO-STATIAN wack noodle stuff is an absolute mental case, I'm sure his IQ can not be more then 95.
June 11, 2007 8:11 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 11, 2007 08:11
Ahmed,
Your "beef" is with the UN not Jacob.
And how much aid has Bahrain given to their Palestinian sisters and brothers?
And finally, gators definitely will kill. Muslims, it depends but with the koran as their operating manual can we trust any of them?
June 11, 2007 4:39 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 11, 2007 04:39
Time to launch a pre-emptive attack on Iran....according to Leiberman.....
Iran is no threat to the US...it is a threat to Leibermans homeland, though.
How many Americans will have to die for this Zionist cause?
June 11, 2007 1:29 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 11, 2007 01:29
Jacob Josevz
This is what you wrote: "For that reason "Yonkil", they killed "All" OURS FAMILTY in Europe & Now Mid0-East. that I fought so hard for. And I never took anything from someone that did not belong to by blood sweat & tears..."
I truly want to understand where you come from. Please help me:
1. If your gripe was with Europeans and with Hitler in particular, then what brought you to Palestine?
2. Do you not think that it was your forceful stealing of Arab homes and lands that turned those people into your enemy?
3. In its short history, Israel has worked from a position of power and has reneged on any peace deals including the current one proposed by Saudis. Eben though as Palestinians acknowledged your right to exist in Oslos but wanted you to stop occupation you went crazy and occupied more Arab lands by force. Do you actually believe that you should give those homes stolen from Arabs back to their rightful owners?
4. Do you believe you have the right to the land more than the people who inhabited it for 100's if not a thousand years?
5. Even if we go by Torah (OT) that God gave this land to Jews, then there was also other tribes like Cannainites, etc. as we are also told. So, do you believe that todays Arabs deserve to be treated as jushua treated the roiginal inhabitants of the land?
6. Do you believe that you have the right to ethnically clean Palestine from all Arabs? And that 3 million refugees should never have the right to return to their homes but you and any other person who calls themselves a Jew have automatic right to call Israel home?
7. Do you believe that those who converted to Judaism like Kazars, Falashas and other Europeans also have the right to the land more than the indigenous people, just because they call themselves Jews?
8. Do you not see that most of these Palestinians also look like Jews? That they could have converted from Judaism to Islam and that some are indeed Christians? Such stories are aslo in Torah (OT) of tribes being forced to become second class Jews to be saved from death. Indeed Jewish converts can never have the same status in Israel as full-blooded Jews but they help demography and are encouraged to live on stolen lands. Do you approve of such apartheid system?
9. Do you accept Christianity and Islam as an extension of Judaism by accommodating them in order to provide for peace and harmony OR do you believe in The Supreme Sate of Israel from Nile to Euphrates and all the wealth belonging to you?
10. Finally. Do you know that Islam accepts your faith as well as Christianity yet you reject both. Does this stem from wishing to remain pure? Thus believing you are superior?
I want to repeat that I only wish to know your views, as I have seen mayhem over my life of 57 years and have read much of your positings but still can't work you out. I wish to see people united for the sake of peace by accommodating each other. Islamic history is full of co-operation between Muslims and Jews and Christians yet much hatred exists today because of various political and fanatic factions. I believe in dignity of human and feel that can only be achieved by respecting and valuing everyone as oneslef. That is indeed my religion, if ever I choose to have one. To live and let live and promote peace wherever I go.
Do you think so?
June 11, 2007 12:50 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 11, 2007 00:50
Jacob,
have you ever read the poem "Der Erlkönig".
For some reason, I can not get it out of my mind.
Here is a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_Erlk%C3%B6nig
It is much better in German than the translation into English.
June 10, 2007 10:22 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 10, 2007 22:22
"speed123:
Get lost pagans...this is not about "hate" it is about geo politics and the complicity of one group of thinkers."
How dare you!!! You on earth do you think you are, you nincompoop!
DONT YOU EVER, tell people to get lost. This is a public board and EVERYONE has a right to speak their mind without your hate spewing forth.
June 10, 2007 9:58 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 10, 2007 21:58
Thanks, Jacob!!!
My PHOTONS are shining more brightly with you in my life!
June 10, 2007 9:54 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 10, 2007 21:54
Sen. Joseph I. Lieberman (zionist hawk) just called for the US launch a PREEMPTIVE attack on IRAN on CBS Meet the Nation.
Go figure....but may be you are right, maybe it is just a conspiracy theory.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0607/4422.html
June 10, 2007 6:44 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 10, 2007 18:44
With all these antisemites attacking the Talmud you might want to sympathize with it. Not on your life! The Talmud was designed to fence the Jews off from everyone else; it is therefore responsible for the misery of Jewish life. The Jews were forced into an unhealthy, neurotic existence. Of course the rabbis were right to reject Jesus but the means they used to keep Jews away from Christian ideas were self defeating.
June 10, 2007 6:12 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 10, 2007 18:12
Ah, "Warm Heart" Ya Ya alis svell. < ?: +)'
June 10, 2007 4:04 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 10, 2007 16:04
Hey there, Jacob Jozevz, how are you doing my friend?
Can you please write to me?
June 10, 2007 3:50 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 10, 2007 15:50
Get lost pagans...this is not about "hate" it is about geo politics and the complicity of one group of thinkers.
June 10, 2007 1:38 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 10, 2007 13:38
Merry Met, PaganPlace. I guess we use Jesus' words to expose the hypocrisy of some of his supposed followers. This is the man who said, " Love each other as I have loved you" (John 15:12). No qualifiers there, no "only if they're Christian", no "unless they're jewish, or muslim, or pagan, or black, or gay, etc." Yet some "Christians" can be so inventive in the ways they HATE.
If you're going to tell me how to run my house, then YOUR house had better damn sight be in order.
(BTW, I *loved* your story about the asterisks!)
June 10, 2007 1:13 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 10, 2007 13:13
Travestere,
When was the last time that Americas of the IRA ilk helped to influence an official preemptive war against the UK?
If Irish Americans were involved in such a plot that was against American interest, I would be the first to condem the action.
The neo con movement is a Jewish hawk intellectual movement that made the case against IRAQ and is now planning aginst IRAN
Time to face up to the facts and stop crying anti semitism.
June 10, 2007 5:23 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 10, 2007 05:23
*laughing to Wiccan,*
Why in the Holy Holly Hel are we always the ones talking about what Jesus supposedly said, when the 'Christians' are always 'proving' he "really meant" the opposite?
Would you Christian guys look at yourselves, already? You're embarrassing my Christian ancestors.
Mostly Catholic. Probably all pretty embarrassed right around now, regardless. But what can you do.
Anyway, Kenneth, in some ways, this hate *is* the news... What's also the news is who else speaks, and how... and who, if they're out there... doesn't.
It's also, admittedly, getting really boring.
But then again, that's how they get you: make the facts boring and the 'truth' too repulsive to look at, it'd seem.
June 10, 2007 2:52 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 10, 2007 02:52
Speed123,
I made the comment about the Catholic Supreme Court Justices and the possible Vatican influence in jest.
Raised a Catholic and still going to Mass on Sunday. The only difference now is that I have been "Crossanized" in recent years. Call me a Catholic of the New Reality but still Catholic and giving monetary support as needed to the basic spread of the Good Word but without the claims that is the only Good Word.
June 9, 2007 11:46 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 9, 2007 23:46
Opus dei good;zionism bad. Illuminati good; zionism bad. Catholic Ireland, Spain,Italy good;Jewish Israel bad. Church of England,Scotland good;Jewish Israel bad. Islamic Syria,Saudi Arabia,Palestine Malaysia et al, et al good; Jewish Israel bad. 1.5 billion Muslims good; 12 million Jews bad. 2 billion Christians good; 12 million Jews bad. Hindu India good,Buddist Thailand, good; Jewish Israel bad. Hamas political movement,Salafist,Wasahabi,David Duke good; Zionism bad. Catholics and Vatican good; Jews and Israel bad; IRA and Ireland good; Jews and Zionism bad. Armenian,Turkish,Greek,Irish, British lobbies good;Iraeli lobbies bad. Catholic intellectual movements good; Jewish intellectual movements bad. Irish and Ireland ;Greeks and Greece;Italians and Italy good, no dual loyalty. Jews and Israel, dual loyalty, dual loyalty. I think I got it speed123,anonymous xyz.Later, mein fur--err gang !
June 9, 2007 11:03 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 9, 2007 23:03
from "Jewish Intellectuals and the Shaping of Public Policy" by Murray Friedman:
"Acknowledging the Jewishness of neoconservatism has always triggered the red, flashing lights of antisemitism, especially since the start of the Iraq War (with extra points if it's Pat Buchanan doing the acknowledging). But there is some truth to the suspicion. If there is an intellectual movement in America to whose invention Jews can lay sole claim, neoconservatism is it. It's a thought one imagines most American Jews, overwhelmingly liberal, will find horrifying. And yet it is a fact that as a political philosophy, neoconservatism was born among the children of Jewish immigrants and is now largely the intellectual domain of those immigrants' grandchildren. Understanding what might be Jewish about this movement (or "persuasion" as its godfather, Irving Kristol, prefers it be called) should be possible without being accused of conspiracy theorizing about secret cabals pulling strings for Israel."
June 9, 2007 8:24 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 9, 2007 20:24
I dont care if it "touchy" - as I said earlier, in seeking tolerance/sensitivity we accept ignorance (or press imposed ignorance).
This is an important issue!
June 9, 2007 7:50 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 9, 2007 19:50
Hello Viejita,
Some good points; however, there is no Catholic homeland (despite what Concerned says) and considering the actions of these pro-israeli americans at high levels of government - I think that it would be insane not to address this issue out in the open.
It does not happen in the press and this is a problem for everyone involved and if it does - like the article above about Israeli influence - then it is shot down by the media and loud mouths as anti semitic.
This contributor is fair game as he has justified the war.
Americans have every right to question - if we dont then we will keep making the same mistakes (ie IRAN)
June 9, 2007 7:45 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 9, 2007 19:45
According to Sarna:
"What is most important is study, “for it leads to action.”
Could not agree more, professor.
Look at the ideas of the neo conservative movement and you will understand the actions and current situation in the middle east.
June 9, 2007 7:39 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 9, 2007 19:39
Speed123
It's a touchy issue and I'm not sure it needs to be brought up every time a Jewish commentator posts a column.
Do you think it would be safe to suggest a question about Zionism and Anti-Semitism in the middle east and elsewhere, or would it bring too many unthinking zealots out of the woodwork?
Also, I see some relation to arguments about Latin American immigration. Are Jewish leaders too loyal to Israel? Are Latinos too loyal to their "raza"? Does ethnic pride of many kinds make the U.S. too fra