All Comments (14)

To Spong,
After reading several of you books, the latest Jesus for the Nonreligious, a friend and I feel cast afloat with regard to prayer. Is there a structure of some sort within which we could recast our prayer life. In general, I get the idea of what you propose, but still feel raw and unsure with regard to my prayer life.
nmitchell7103@charter.net

THE PAUL FAMILY ,RESIDENT OF OUR AREA, IS NEXT TO OUR HOUSE. THIS PAUL FAMILY IS VERY FERROCIOUS AND DEVILISH IN NATURE. THEY HAVE CAUSED HARM TO US AND MANY OTHERS. PLEASE PRAY SO THAT THE SAID PAUL FAMILY LEAVE THE AREA AND SETTLE FAR OFF ELSEWHERE FOR MAINTAING PEACE,TRANQUILITY AND PROTECTION IN THE AREA. From:: Sankar Kumar Modak (India, West Bengal, Howrah)

Brambleton is just one step removed from being removed by the boys in the white suits and hauled off to live in the rubber room. If I set out to prove the Bible is phony I'd reference Brambleton.

The Reprehensibility of the Bible and its God

Yes Brambleton
Deuteronomy validates
killing our children if they talk back
Genocide,
rape,
selling our daughters into sexual slavery.

The bible in many many places
endorses Slavery.

I guess since everyone accepted Slavery at the time
it was fine
if God did too.

how can a civilized person endorse the actions and directives of such a God

Tonio is right
you are Bone Chilling. You remind me of Jack Nicholson in The Departed.

Morally reprehensible.
Unless your morality endorses Slavery and Genocide

Brambleton, your last paragraph is terrifying. The idea that God would order anyone to kill is outrageous.

Well put, Bishop Spong...

It is difficult, if not impossible, to have a meaningful discussion about prayer without a clear definition of God. As an Episcopalian who looks at this issue from the Christian viewpoint, I would have to say that we can develop an understanding of God and His will through the Bible, and see reflections of that character in various people.

I've discovered that the people who best exemplify His character tend to be incredibly humble and self-sacrificing people, and not self-righteous and publicly-pious types who love power and prestige and rubbing shoulders with politicians.

Christians who best understand the nature of God tend to pray for a better understanding of His will, and that they walk in His will, not their own. They understand that prayer is a way to open yourself up to God's will. From the Christian persective, Christ came to serve, not establish rule over anyone. He expects us to do the same. I wish that the most visible and loudest of our "public Christians" understood this critical point.

James,

Based on your comments, I'm going to assume you are not a Christian. Either way, you should probably read more about the Bible before regurgitating what Michael Moore or Al Franken told you.

Matthew 8:5-10 talks about how no soldier who is a Christian desires to kill another; however, the Lord Himself, did not chastise a Centurion soldier in the Bible in the matter of his occupation. The Lord commended this man for his understanding of authority and his great faith when he called upon the Lord to heal his servant. Our military men need our prayers and the protection of the Lord as they go to battle. This should be the work of the church -- prayer for our men's protection and prayer for our president and heads of state. Our critical words will not change things, but prayer will. We must pray that the war would end quickly so we can return to peace, and especially prayer for our enemies, that they might be saved.

Also, as to the extermination of foes, Israel had to remember that punitive war was in the interests of religion and morality and therefore her soldiers were to act, not as murderers, but as God-appointed executioners of divine judgment upon gross idolatry and iniquity (Deuteronomy 7). War was to be viewed as divine surgery for the cutting off of evil wickedness that would defile the rest of the world. God still uses nations today to execute wrath on evil (Romans 13.)

OK gang. Who does Pat Robertson talk to when he speaks to the being he calls God? What or who is the "higher power" Bush contacted and got the advice to invade Iraq?

God is beyond comprehension says the bishop so it can't be God. Devil is not. God is almighty while Devil acts that way. Now don't go around calling people who speak to supernatural beings liars. There is Devil that's open for business around the clock.

Lucifer wanted to be God. http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul Is there a bit of soul selling going on? The big bucks go to those who lead the multitudes to the National Prayer Breakfast, just a click this side of somewhere.

Well said bishop. I can't argue with what you said.

The National Prayer Breakfast is an Abomination
Rev Spong is Absolutely Right

If jesus were alive, he would be rolling over in his grave at the thought of this hypocritical, morally reprehensible, unbelievably hypocritical National Prayer Breakfast exploitation of religion by Politicians.

If Jesus was about ANYTHING
he was about Peace.

Bush our still controlling politician is about sociopathic hateful fearful war.

Pray for success in war. A sacrilege of the highest order.

Thank you Mr Spong.

Where is the courage of others,
esp Jon Meacham
who kow tows to this moral outrage.

I agree, this is the crux of the matter:

"It is impossible to answer the question “What is Prayer” until you can discuss the meaning of God."

I suggest it's impossible to discuss anything about religious belief at all until we dicuss the meaning of "God". This is precisely the point which separates "theists" (all believers) from anti-theists (all non believers).

So why don't we get to that question?

1. What do you mean by "God"? And,

2. Prove the existence of your "God."

Thank you.

Bishop Spong is one of the few religious people I respect and who I could see meditating with. I do not believe there is a god in any way that humans have yet conceptualized, but I do feel there is some spiritual force in the universe, as yet undiscovered.

Actually, I'd just as soon sit down with him and share a bottle of red wine, and maybe contemplate the stars if it was a clear night.

And I think his characterization of the Nat'l Prayer Breakfast is spot on.

PHIL C.

We're all waiting for the good Bishop to come out of the closet and declare his atheism at once. Evidently, and judging by his theology, he doesn't seriously believe in the hogwash that is theism. He's far too clever a fellow for that nonsense. Spong is patently boderline deist, possibly even atheist. He only professess Christianity so as not to upset sweet old grandma.

On a serious note however Bishop, although you and I stand on different sides of the theological divide, I appreciate your candid analysis and agree with you on most questions. Your theology, needless to say, is much more sophisticated than the primitive theism one often encounters.

Though one does wonder why at all you cling on to religion given it's proved itself absolutely useless in adding anything to our knowledge of the universe.

Phil C.,

I think you've got it pegged just right. Nice post!

******

Bishop Spong,

Why don't you become a Buddhist?

Your spiritual pursuits will continue essentially unchanged, prayer time will become meditation time, and you'll probably progress faster on the path to enlightenment, since you'll no longer get tangled up with having to contend with the three-letter word with no referent ["God"].

Best wishes.

no comments?

I bet the believers are too stunned to speak and the atheists are focusing their efforts elsewhere.