John Bryson Chane: We Need a Lot of Christmas - On Faith at washingtonpost.com

E Favorite:

Hello Bishop Chane and others -- have you heard that the Archbishop of Canterbury has said publicly that the three Kings are legend, that stars don't behave the way the star of Bethlehem supposedly did and that you don't have to believe in the virgin birth to sign up with the anglican church? http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article3076008.ece

I know this info is not news to you Bishop or to anyone with seminary training, but I can't help but think it will cause a stir among the people in the pews.

Here's another link to a story in the Australian press: http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/three-wise-men-just-legend-archbishop/2007/12/20/1197740452480.html

December 21, 2007 9:48 AM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on December 21, 2007 09:48

Paganplace:

Well, in that event, Lepi, let none say it's we who are the 'party-poopers.' :)

December 20, 2007 7:47 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on December 20, 2007 19:47

Paganplace:

Oh, snap....! Umm.... Can we have a holiday, now?

:)

This is the kind of thing that makes the sadistic imaginings of some Christians about what I'd do if I were facing their God as the ruler of the universe, ....then to be 'judged' on all this little crap, I'd be like, 'Dude, I'm going through a transitional period right now, ...I just *died.* Again. whatever.' :)

December 20, 2007 7:32 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on December 20, 2007 19:32

Mad Love:

/\ Oh, snap!

December 20, 2007 2:57 AM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on December 20, 2007 02:57

lepidopteryx:

PP,
Actually, there is a reference to bringing trees inddors in the OT - the children of Israle are told not to do it because it's a Pagan custom...Jeremiah 10:2-4

December 19, 2007 12:52 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on December 19, 2007 12:52

Paganplace:

Kind of like St. Patrick is credited with the 'miracle' of driving all the snakes out of Ireland. There were *never* any snakes in Ireland. Ireland went from iced-over to ocean-locked at the end of the Ice Age. No snakes to begin with. :)

December 18, 2007 10:25 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on December 18, 2007 22:25

Paganplace:

Oh, but, btw, CCNL, no, not only does no 'Pumpkin God Samhain' (or *any God Samhain:* this is a name for the *time of year,* even in modern Irish,) exist, ....*Pumpkins* as we know them in contemporary America didn't exist in Ireland in ancient times. Any vegetable represented as such basically refers to a squash or gourd.

December 18, 2007 10:19 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on December 18, 2007 22:19

Paganplace:

And since it got lost amid about twenty pages of JJ spam, I'm going to repost my own response to the Bishop, here, cause I'd like an answer:

Wait a minute:

"Last year he phoned me, ready to gas up a chain saw and march down to the Common to defoliate what, for the first time in the history of that town was called the town’s “holiday tree.”"

So, you're saying that your brother would rather vandalize the tree than not have it be overtly Christian?

What happened to Christmas, indeed.

Peace on earth.

December 17, 2007 7:27 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on December 17, 2007 19:27
Paganplace:

Understand, 'Right Reverend,' that this holiday is, for my people, a time of hope and (in our case re-) emerging light, amid the darkest time of year, too.

Too many Christians, I think, destroy their own celebrations by that very idea that 'If it's not just ours, no one can have it!'

Someone has taught your brother and too many of your co-religionists to convert that desperate need you describe into *more war* and *exclusion and blame of others,* ...your neighbors: neighbors who just might be of the faiths that gave you the 'Christmas tree' in the first place. Or still others who see hope not in your religion, but in our common humanity and celebration.

If that were *my* brother, I would ask him, "Would you strip that tree that brings so much joy down with a chainsaw, simply because someone decided to acknowledge that it has to do with more than just your personal religion? How would you feel after you did that? How would the children, even?"

Is that what Christmas is supposed to be about to you, ...is that piety, or is that something else, that you'd tear down the very thing you claim to treasure, rather than share?

Wasn't even 'yours' in the first place. It's not in your Bible. It's part of our *common* heritage, Reverend.

That hardly reflects well on your savior.

December 18, 2007 10:04 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on December 18, 2007 22:04

Paganplace:

None of this is relevant, CCNL, and, you're right, the 'Wiccans might be offended at Halloween' case is way overstated, along with the idea that it's actually some Wiccan conspiracy to get kids into Wicca or something, which is silly.

I mean, puh-lease, I know it's very difficult for some to imagine a religion that's not out to 'convert the world,' but we aren't. Just aren't. There's nothing in our religion which says so, nothing to do with ruling the world or controlling others. There just isn't.

Actually, that's one of our fundamental differences with 'Book-religions,' ...the very idea of religious conquest on any level is *nonsense* to us. Just nonsense.

There is *nothing* in our theology or belief which says we should be out to convert people, or rule people, or control people. It's *just not there.* Christians *project* this.

People hanging Witches in effigy while screaming about Harry Potter, or nailing nooses to our doors, or, say, coming and nailing our pets to doors on the basis we're supposed to be animal-sacrificers, (Huh?) ...that's more than a little over-the -top, though. That's hate-speech, usually involving defamation, meant to terrorize our community and people.

We do exist, we're real people of faith, but, no, it's not a conspiracy to take over when we try and participate in public life as equal Americans.

We're not even *interested* in your money and power. We're just here.

December 18, 2007 9:57 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on December 18, 2007 21:57

Concerned The Christian Now Liberated:

If we consider nativity scenes as just more fictional and/or embellished accounts about good people and myths (e.g. Santa Clause and his elves, Gabriel, Moroni et al), "do no harm to such scenes" or to the associated commentary. Even pagans have their fictional accounts to celebrate on their hallowed days of Halloween etc.

from: http://members.tripod.com/~TaraMiller/halloween.html

"Halloween: The Pagan Festival of Samhain

Paganism, and Druidry especially, recognise eight feasts durring the yearly cycle or the Eight Fold Year. These celebrations are based upon a deep and mysterious connection between our individual lives and the source of this planet’s life. Like any other religious ocassion, these Pagan holidays are marked by special observances.

The most popular festival, in ancient times as well as modern Pagan society, is Samhain or Samhuinn, (pronounced Sou’in) the Celtic new year.

Halloween Myths

1) The pumpkin God, Samhain ( pronounced Sam’hane) DOES NOT exist.

2) Pagans DO NOT sacrifice babies or animals on Halloween. The Wiccan Rede states "Do what thou wilst, but harm none."

3) Pagans DO NOT worship the Devil or Satan on Halloween.

4) PAGANS ARE NOT SATANISTS.

These myths have been perpetuated by people who have seen too many horror movies and the Christian idea of horrific and mythical forms of Satanism. "

And contemporary Wiccans note: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween

"Also, some Wiccans feel that the tradition is offensive to "real witches" for promoting stereotypical caricatures of "wicked witches".[45] However, other Neopagans, perhaps most of them, see it as a harmless holiday in which some of the old traditions are celebrated by the mainstream culture, albeit in a different manner."

December 18, 2007 11:49 AM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on December 18, 2007 11:49

Blitzen:

Well, an elf caught him pouting that Santa hadn't given him the 82A1 "Anti-Secularist" that he wanted.

So, no Red Ryder model "Anti-Secularist's Window" BB gun either.

December 17, 2007 11:02 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on December 17, 2007 23:02

Paganplace:

I think someone in the house didn't get their Red Rider BB gun.

December 17, 2007 10:25 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on December 17, 2007 22:25

Today's word, boys and girls, is::

XMAS

For heaven's sake, will someone please help Josev find his essay.

Mortal,
Why call your "education" into question with a statement of "beliefs"? Just curious.

Mark, thanks for explaining from where this virgin idea originated. Did you double check this with the Mormons?

E Fav, are you Josev pretending to be Mark?

December 17, 2007 10:19 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on December 17, 2007 22:19

Anonymous:

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Main Page | About On Faith | By Religion | All On Faith Panelists | RSS Feed Cal Thomas
Syndicated political columnist
Syndicated political columnist and “On Faith” panelist Cal Thomas has a twice-weekly column that appears in over 500 newspapers around the world. A graduate of American University, Thomas is a veteran of broadcast and print journalism. He has worked for NBC, CNBC, PBS television, and the Fox News Channel where he currently appears on the weekly media critique show, “Fox News Watch.” Thomas has authored ten books, including Blinded by Might: Can the Religious Right Save America?, A Freedom Dream, Public Persons and Private Lives, Book Burning, Liberals for Lunch, Occupied Territory, The Death of Ethics in America, Uncommon Sense and Things That Matter Most. His latest was The Wit and Wisdom of Cal Thomas. In 1995, Thomas was honored with a Cable Ace Award nomination for Best Interview Program. Other awards include a George Foster Peabody team reporting award, and awards from both the Associated Press and United Press International. Common Ground, which Thomas writes for USA Today, offers insightful discussion of contentious social issues with his friend and political counterpart, Bob Beckel. The two are working together on a book to be published in 2007. Close. Cal Thomas
Syndicated political columnist
Syndicated political columnist and “On Faith” panelist Cal Thomas has a twice-weekly column that appears in over 500 newspapers around the world. A graduate of American University, Thomas is a veteran of broadcast and print journalism. more »
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God Not Subject to Government Approval
Let those who still "keep Christmas" in their hearts observe it well and not look to governments to ratify what they have abandoned.

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More Posts About: Christian , Evangelical

All Comments (12)
Roy:
I agree that God is not subject to government approval but the problem with Cal and his ilk is that they think government is subject to the approval of their own private definition of God.

December 17, 2007 8:37 AM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on December 17, 2007 08:37

Norrie Hoyt:
"God Not Subject to Government Approval"

Neither is non-belief in "God", though Romney and the GOP would have it otherwise.

December 17, 2007 11:11 AM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on December 17, 2007 11:11

Russell D.:
Blah Blah Blah.

Fun fact all Christians should know:

Jesus wasn't born on December 25th.

Thought I'd put that out there.

December 17, 2007 11:20 AM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on December 17, 2007 11:20

Mr Mark:
Cal writes:

"...exploited Jesus to make money rather than to obey His teachings."

Ironic, coming from Cal Thomas, isn't it?

December 17, 2007 11:31 AM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on December 17, 2007 11:31

Andrea:
"Requiring governments to adhere to this unique expression of who God is would require a "conversion" by the consumer-driven culture."

No, Cal. It would require a complete overhaul of our Constitution.

December 17, 2007 11:45 AM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on December 17, 2007 11:45

Robert:
How incredibly hubristic to expect the world to "properly observe" the alleged birth of your particular deity.

Mr. Thomas, how many births of other deities have you properly observed this year?

December 17, 2007 1:23 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on December 17, 2007 13:23

TSK:
He summed up the temptest-in-a-teapot nature of the 'war on Christmas' pretty well. He hit the nail on the head about a consumer-driven culture exploiting all-things-Jesus to sell goods. But he missed the part about how the culture just before the consumer-driven one exploited all-things-Jesus to wage war on heathens, own slaves, make women second-class-citizens, etc.

Institutional Christianity has a lot of explaining and apologizing to do, but it has this bad case of amnesia....

December 17, 2007 2:25 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on December 17, 2007 14:25

Paganplace:
The Christian Right like to claim their consumer capitalism is divinely-ordained, and that they're the sole ones to credit for the civilization, ...then when the civilization conflates their Jesus and money and material things, just like Christian Right politicians do, ...they blame the secularists and non-Christians for their own behavior.

Yah.

December 17, 2007 4:42 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on December 17, 2007 16:42

Jozevz et al:
Where is my Essay [comment]????????

Please post me 'Comment' or let me know you kept it forever!???

Where is my Comment??

Please 'POST" me comment! And The Others whom you suckered sally, ET AL!

rEMOVE YOUR "bot' FROM ME COMPUTER(S) & oTHER(S) IN 24 HOURS, OR ELSE THIS WILL HAPPEN EVERY DAY 365 DAYS PER YEAR!

Notice: You have not met US (me) half way, now you will be suid in FEDERAL COURT a.s.a.p.! bye parasites!

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner".