All Comments (17)

I was led to this site by the title indicating it was about A.A. and the Episcopal Church. After looking at the comments, I wonder. But I am led to point out the major role Dr. Samuel M. Shoemaker, Jr. played in teaching Bill Wilson the Oxford Group precepts that were virtually codified in Bill's Big Book program. I've written many titles about what Bill did not include in his Big Book; but for a line-by-line description of Shoemaker's role, see my title: New Light on Alcoholism: God, Sam Shoemaker, and A.A., 2d ed http://www.dickb.com/titles.shtml
God Bless, Dick B.

I love Alban's stuff

www.matthewsblog.waynesborochurchofchrist.org

You wrote, "The intense urge of most human beings for most of history to search for ways to satisfy their religious hopes and aspirations is not going to disappear or diminish in importance."

Can one make a business satisfying the human religious urge? What Mr Hitchen said means those business more closely resemble the mafia, (no product, no service, just money) than auto maker GM, (product) or the medical doctor, (service).

Does Dr Schuller believe in God? You can't answer and we cannot know he's truthful when he says he does. What we know is he enjoys the life of the super wealthy as well as being a celebrity. Is he doing good or harm. His business has the characteristics of chewing gum, a lot of motion with no results, just exercise.

I have no way of knowing what ministers think but I do know the Bible is a hoax. From that platform it doesn't look good for the ministry that has the single fall back possibility, "we're victims too." That's not as bad as the caught bank robber claiming he too was robbed, that he was only doing what he was taught God wanted him to do.

...and did I tell you I stutter?

...and did I tell you I stutter?

As a long time and active member of the fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous, I spend many hours of my day walking with people who are trying to purge their bodies and their minds of the obsession to destroy their lives with alcohol and other chemicals. These are, as they say, not bad people trying to become good, but sick people trying to become well.

One of the greatest roadblocks to their recovery, and often in individual cases the major roadblock, is the destructive force of mis-directred Christianity. Guilt, fear, hopelessness, anger, frustration...all these emotions nurtured by addiction are often fueled by the minions of organized religion. As these folks try to deal with the ditch they're in between Jerusalem and Jerico, they quickly learn to disavow any ties they have to the church. They feel sick enough without others telling them how sick they are.

Rather than curse the darkness, however, they've learned to devote themselves to an undefined, creedless spirituality that gives them an anchor, a hope, a life. Later on, perhaps, when sobriety and health have returned, they can return to their religion and witness to the New Creation that is indeed abroad in the world.

P.S. Wyoming and Montana? My goodness, it's almost winter out there! Hurry home.

As a long time and active member of the fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous, I spend many hours of my day walking with people who are trying to purge their bodies and their minds of the obsession to destroy their lives with alcohol and other chemicals. These are, as they say, not bad people trying to become good, but sick people trying to become well.

One of the greatest roadblocks to their recovery, and often in individual cases the major roadblock, is the destructive force of mis-directred Christianity. Guilt, fear, hopelessness, anger, frustration...all these emotions nurtured by addiction are often fueled by the minions of organized religion. As these folks try to deal with the ditch they're in between Jerusalem and Jerico, they quickly learn to disavow any ties they have to the church. They feel sick enough without others telling them how sick they are.

Rather than curse the darkness, however, they've learned to devote themselves to an undefined, creedless spirituality that gives them an anchor, a hope, a life. Later on, perhaps, when sobriety and health have returned, they can return to their religion and witness to the New Creation that is indeed abroad in the world.

P.S. Wyoming and Montana? My goodness, it's almost winter out there! Hurry home.

As a long time and active member of the fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous, I spend many hours of my day walking with people who are trying to purge their bodies and their minds of the obsession to destroy their lives with alcohol and other chemicals. These are, as they say, not bad people trying to become good, but sick people trying to become well.

One of the greatest roadblocks to their recovery, and often in individual cases the major roadblock, is the destructive force of mis-directred Christianity. Guilt, fear, hopelessness, anger, frustration...all these emotions nurtured by addiction are often fueled by the minions of organized religion. As these folks try to deal with the ditch they're in between Jerusalem and Jerico, they quickly learn to disavow any ties they have to the church. They feel sick enough without others telling them how sick they are.

Rather than curse the darkness, however, they've learned to devote themselves to an undefined, creedless spirituality that gives them an anchor, a hope, a life. Later on, perhaps, when sobriety and health have returned, they can return to their religion and witness to the New Creation that is indeed abroad in the world.

P.S. Wyoming and Montana? My goodness, it's almost winter out there! Hurry home.

As a long time and active member of the fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous, I spend many hours of my day walking with people who are trying to purge their bodies and their minds of the obsession to destroy their lives with alcohol and other chemicals. These are, as they say, not bad people trying to become good, but sick people trying to become well.

One of the greatest roadblocks to their recovery, and often in individual cases the major roadblock, is the destructive force of mis-directred Christianity. Guilt, fear, hopelessness, anger, frustration...all these emotions nurtured by addiction are often fueled by the minions of organized religion. As these folks try to deal with the ditch they're in between Jerusalem and Jerico, they quickly learn to disavow any ties they have to the church. They feel sick enough without others telling them how sick they are.

Rather than curse the darkness, however, they've learned to devote themselves to an undefined, creedless spirituality that gives them an anchor, a hope, a life. Later on, perhaps, when sobriety and health have returned, they can return to their religion and witness to the New Creation that is indeed abroad in the world.

P.S. Wyoming and Montana? My goodness, it's almost winter out there! Hurry home.

As a long time and active member of the fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous, I spend many hours of my day walking with people who are trying to purge their bodies and their minds of the obsession to destroy their lives with alcohol and other chemicals. These are, as they say, not bad people trying to become good, but sick people trying to become well.

One of the greatest roadblocks to their recovery, and often in individual cases the major roadblock, is the destructive force of mis-directred Christianity. Guilt, fear, hopelessness, anger, frustration...all these emotions nurtured by addiction are often fueled by the minions of organized religion. As these folks try to deal with the ditch they're in between Jerusalem and Jerico, they quickly learn to disavow any ties they have to the church. They feel sick enough without others telling them how sick they are.

Rather than curse the darkness, however, they've learned to devote themselves to an undefined, creedless spirituality that gives them an anchor, a hope, a life. Later on, perhaps, when sobriety and health have returned, they can return to their religion and witness to the New Creation that is indeed abroad in the world.

P.S. Wyoming and Montana? My goodness, it's almost winter out there! Hurry home.

As a long time and active member of the fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous, I spend many hours of my day walking with people who are trying to purge their bodies and their minds of the obsession to destroy their lives with alcohol and other chemicals. These are, as they say, not bad people trying to become good, but sick people trying to become well.

One of the greatest roadblocks to their recovery, and often in individual cases the major roadblock, is the destructive force of mis-directred Christianity. Guilt, fear, hopelessness, anger, frustration...all these emotions nurtured by addiction are often fueled by the minions of organized religion. As these folks try to deal with the ditch they're in between Jerusalem and Jerico, they quickly learn to disavow any ties they have to the church. They feel sick enough without others telling them how sick they are.

Rather than curse the darkness, however, they've learned to devote themselves to an undefined, creedless spirituality that gives them an anchor, a hope, a life. Later on, perhaps, when sobriety and health have returned, they can return to their religion and witness to the New Creation that is indeed abroad in the world.

P.S. Wyoming and Montana? My goodness, it's almost winter out there! Hurry home.

As a long time and active member of the fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous, I spend many hours of my day walking with people who are trying to purge their bodies and their minds of the obsession to destroy their lives with alcohol and other chemicals. These are, as they say, not bad people trying to become good, but sick people trying to become well.

One of the greatest roadblocks to their recovery, and often in individual cases the major roadblock, is the destructive force of mis-directred Christianity. Guilt, fear, hopelessness, anger, frustration...all these emotions nurtured by addiction are often fueled by the minions of organized religion. As these folks try to deal with the ditch they're in between Jerusalem and Jerico, they quickly learn to disavow any ties they have to the church. They feel sick enough without others telling them how sick they are.

Rather than curse the darkness, however, they've learned to devote themselves to an undefined, creedless spirituality that gives them an anchor, a hope, a life. Later on, perhaps, when sobriety and health have returned, they can return to their religion and witness to the New Creation that is indeed abroad in the world.

P.S. Wyoming and Montana? My goodness, it's almost winter out there! Hurry home.

A non-essentialist & non-reductivist but nonetheless historically informative definition of 'religion' would have been helpful - - -

X is a religion if X has at least a majority of the following characteristics: . . . . . . . . .

Otherwise claims about the vices or virtues of religion-as-such or a particular religion are worthless and only invite self-serving defensiveness from the so-called "faithful" of all "faiths", religious & non-religious, naturalist & non-naturalist, X & non-X!

As it was once well put, all of us live by "the substance of things unseen, the evidence of things hoped for", that is, that part of each person's web of beliefs in which we each, respectively, put our ultimate trust, only to be vindicated or not by living by those beliefs.

" The authority of the established churches, their formularies, rituals, and prescribed beliefs, are crucially important for many persons."

Assuming that's true and churches are worth preserving for those reasons -- how about coming clean with parishioners about those bible stories and elements of the creed that you and all seminary-educated clergy know are not true - i.e. - not factual?

Also, I understand you'd like the church enterprise to stay in business, so please consider that it may be possible for people to fulfill their needs in ways that don't involve belief (or feigning belief) in the supernatural.

What secular moral force could equal the religious meaning delivered to the ruling Burmese
junta by the upturned alms bowls held aloft by the marching Buddhist monks?

James Anderson

What secular moral force could equal the religious meaning delivered to the ruling Burmese
junta by the upturned alms bowls held aloft by the marching Buddhist monks?

"...Hitchens is in error if he believes the world will be a better place if the quest for God disappears – because it isn’t going to disappear or diminish."

Non sequitur!

Even if the quest for God does not diminish, Hitchens could still be correct in his belief that "the world will be a better place if the quest for God disappears".