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It's a great achievement for Islamic leaders and scholars as well as Newsweek and the Washington post to present this imperative opportunity for inter cultural and global philosophical dialogue. What's important is that by exchanging our ideas and comments regarding inter religious relations and world events that affect our views of each other as fellow human beings. Since the advent of humanity, We strove to make sense of the world we live in and the lives we've experienced. Worldwide curiosities to learn the true nature of life and our universe is an exceptionally rare virtue upon life on Earth. In other words, we're the only known species on the planet who've pursued to unravel these great mysteries and developed written philosophies based upon our understanding of the world around us.
One such philosophy that lasted throughout the ages of humanity is commonly known as religion and spirituality. Ever since our early belief in the Sky God and the God Mother from ancient Pagan times, we vigorously pursued to unravel the truth about our most profound questions. As any educated person would know that religion and their core beliefs or faith have evolved over time. Paganism, Monotheism and Polytheism have been influenced by humanity as these great philosophies have influenced our perceptions and decisions in life over the ages. Over time humanity has embraced diverse religious faiths and spiritual convictions that continue to influence our behavior in our times and most likely beyond.
What's vital for humanity's progress and even survival is to know the true nature of faith itself. To understand the true origins of faith. But most of all, is to accept the truth for whatever it may be. Each one of us will learn the absolute truth once we die. But until that time comes for anyone of us to depart this world, we really don't know the answer to God's existence nor do we have the absolute truth in regards to the true nature of God. Besides if we did possess the truth, there would've been only one religion on Earth with no diversification of any way, shape of form. There would only be one holy scripture written throughout human history.
Considering one's religious faith to be absolute, while considering others to be false would be ethnocentric at best. While collectively searching to unravel the mysteries on nature, life and the universe through sincere reasoning and serious research would be enlightening at its worst. Most importantly, we must accept the fact is that none of us have conclusive evidence to confirm our core beliefs and there's always an immanent change that our most cherished beliefs could be wrong. Our greatest challenge would be to tolerate the truth no matter what it may ultimately be. With such an open mind, we would be able to overcome any future discovery that would contradict our faith regarding the true nature of life, spirituality and divinity.
Humanity does have the ability to achieve such a social achievement. However, it's solely up to humanity and not any other entity or groups of entities to decide our destinies. Each one of us has a choice to make; either hopelessly engaging into meaningless inter cultural conflicts or combine our scientific and cultural gifts to thrive into an enlightened global civilization that could ultimately expand beyond our solar system. The choice is yours, and the time to make it is now!

Jihadist, I'm flattered by your post, thank you for that. I consider you also to be a good writer, with a nice demeanor.

But I still am worried about your soul. Let’s go visit our ancestors in the Garden of Eden. God created the Heavens and the Earth and the fish and the foul and all the animals and man, and placed man in the Garden. And it was good. When God says something is good, He means it is perfect.

Then along came Eve, who was not the first to sin (Lucifer was the first), but she was the first to sin on Earth. She committed many sins that day along with Adam.

First, she doubted God's word, she did not believe, "I will surely die", she broke the most important Commandment which says to Love God with all your heart mind and soul. Then she sought to be a god by eating the fruit, which meant she coveted power. Then she ate of the forbidden tree, which broke the commandment, "Don't eat from that tree".

Then Adam and Eve hid their shame by themselves, they sewed itchy fig leaves together and covered themselves and hid from God. This created a god to suit themselves, they knew God was sovereign and omniscient, but they thought they could hide from Him, it was a great insult. Then God asked (with great sarcasm in His voice), Where are you? And they said they were afraid because they were naked. This was a lie, they were afraid because they had transgressed God's command. Finally, God asked Adam if he had eaten of the tree, and Adam blamed Eve. In attempting to justify himself, Adam insulted (blasphemed) God's sovereignty.

So in the Garden, which heresofar had been "good" (aka perfect), Adam and Eve broke the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 9th, and 10th commandment.

God KILLED an animal (probably a lamb or sheep) and covered Adam and Eve's shame. This death marked the fall from perfection, and death has run rampant on earth ever since. We live in a fallen creation, all because of sin.

So if you have any sin, any at all, then you will not be allowed into Heaven, because the wages of sin is death. You believe in the Paradise of Heaven and I believe Heaven will be Paradise. But if sin is allowed to enter, then Heaven will be as fallen as Earth, and it won’t be Heaven or Paradise.

There are three words that describe our fate.

Justice – When we get what we deserve. Sin should result in instant death, but God is long-suffering and merciful. I deserve Hell, you deserve Hell, we all deserve Hell. God will be glorified in this as perfectly just judge.
Mercy – When we don’t get what we deserve. Currently we are living on Earth still wearing our itchy fig leaf covering. God is glorified in His longsuffering.
Grace – When we get what we don’t deserve. Jesus lived a perfect life and died a sinners death so that we can live a sinners life and die a holy death. All because He loves us and He will get all the glory for being a perfectly kind and benevolent God.

So I beg of you, shed your façade of fig-leaf and put on the Lamb, lest justice befall you.

Jack Sheehan :)

I love hearing, again, Canyon Shearer, telling me I will go to hell. He is an excellent, elegant and civil writer, whether one agrees with him or not. I am going along with him from a Muslim perspective. This forum is, after all, On Faith.

Canyon Shearer

Thank you for your response. I will have to consider carefully as to whether I want someone to take my place for all my sins and the sins of the world. I had thought that as God gave me free will, I am responsible for all my sins and accountable for them, and no one else. And God, the Most Compassionate, the Most Merciful, will judge me, as to whether I will go to heaven or hell.

God knows best.

Best regards as always

J

Yeah Bgone I hope you never have to go before a grand jury where the prosecutor expects you to remember everthing you ever said to anyone over the last two years about a specific subject especially when you hold no knowlege about the primary subject of the investigation in the first place and the guilty party is already known. But he gets to walk and they send you to jail for having a faulty memory of things that really aren't material to the case at hand in the first place.

Jack Sheehan, my apologies for being so long winded...but I am one of those leather-lunged street corner evangelists! I just learned how to type and found out there are a lot of people on the internet who need saving! :)

Adam, in fact this is my real name...blame my hippie parents. FWIW, my last name comes from Scherer, which is the guy who dyes wool...if you can make that fit into a Biblical interpretation, I'd be excited...but unfortunately it's just a coincidence.

You have posed several very intelligent questions. I am of the opinion(which is often times unpopular in Calvanist circles) that true philosophy and true religion will ultimately end up at the same point. If that interests you, please take a look at my Blog post on this topic:
http://trustobey.blogspot.com/2007/05/philosophy-and-theology.html

Through examinations of the apocrypha, the other major religious texts, and the canon of scripture, and consulting with the Author, I have come to the conclusion that the 66-Book Bible is the inerrant, infallible, inspired Word of God. It is prophetically perfect, scientifically sound, canonically correct, archaelogically authentic, irrevocably relevant, and a matchless moral map. It has withstood histories greatest assaults and its message is the same today as when it was first penned.

I have not stated anything that the Bible does not clearly say. When read exogetically, that is, reading to know what the Bible says (not what you want it to say), then the message I preach is not my own, just a slightly disarranged variance of God's message of salvation through Jesus Christ. I hope this answers your question.

Tim, thank you for the encouragement.

I love this web sight, but I’ve had to develop an “operating rule” to keep from getting a headache:

Don’t read any post over 15 sentences long!

Canyon and Jihadist, I love ya, but come on guys, I’ve heard your elaborately documented arguments from leather-lunged street corner evangelists and frightened pulpit pounders for too many years. Poor schmucks like me have worked hard building a relationship with God that both informs my life and and leaves me painfully aware of how little I will ever fully understand. Hitting me over the head with scriptural references and academic treatises only makes my head hurt and my heart ache.

Hi Canyon Shearer

That can't be a real name - what does it mean?

As for your sermon can you explain to me why you're so certain of what you claim and why your interpretation of the Bible is the only valid interpretation? How do you know? Or is it just understood by faith? Do you feel especially "triumphant" by proclaiming such a black/white Bible message?

And where did you get your Bible from? Why do you trust a Church tradition like the canon when you clearly reject so many other church traditions as contra the principle of Sola Scriptura?

I know where you're coming from, but the Spiritual Pride that puffs you up is a hinderance to real growth in the Spirit. Learn to listen rather than just preaching.

Cannyon Shearer - he is da man. "Every one then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house upon the rock;" Matthew 7:24

Jihadist, always nice to see and hear from you.

I never know which books to bring with me to work, I wish I had brought my copy of the Koran with me, I have read it twice and made an effort the second time to write at least one note on every page. I haven't read the Hadith's...as the Koran is supposed to be a light and perspicuous book; why wouldn't all of my questions be answered within its pages?

The trouble is that the Bible and the Koran say completely different things. I can get you the Surah reference if you want it, I believe it is about 5:75-80 (but not certain) which says that good Jews and good Christians will go to Heaven. The Bible is clear that there is only one path to Heaven; albeit good Jews, good Christians, good Muslims, good Buddhists will go to Heaven, I am reminded of three oft repeated verses in the Koran:

"Whosoever earns evil and sins, his is the fire, in it shall he abide."
"Allah knows what is kept secret."
"Allah is not the least unjust."

The Bible is clear that there are no good people, not Christians, not Jews, not Muslims, not Buddhists. God knows the thoughts and intentions of the heart. If sins earn you Hell in Islam as they do in Christianity, then we are all in trouble, because God knows what is kept secret.

The Koran says that Allah is oft merciful and forgiving. The Bible says that God is merciful and forgiving; but the context is different.

Both the Koran and the Bible say that God/Allah is the just judge of all the universe.

In a court of law, a judge that simply lets criminals go is not a just judge. Imagine a murderer says to the judge, "Judge, I'm sorry, I didn't mean it, I've prayed and I've repented." The judge can't let him go because punishment is due; if the judge does let the criminal go, then he is an unjust judge.

So Allah has backed himself into a corner in the Koran; he is not the least unjust. If you've committed a single sin, then Allah has no choice but to send you to the fire, otherwise he is unjust.

God has nearly backed Himself into the same corner in the Bible; God knows that punishment is due for sins, and that there is none that does good, no, not one. But He is merciful and oft forgiving, He hears the pleas for mercy, the repenance, and the prayers, but a punishment is due. So in order that you and I can be set free and God remain just, He took our punishment on Himself. The fine is paid in Jesus Christ. God is glorified, you and I can be exonerated.

This is the difference in all other religions between Messianic Judaism and Christianity. God will be just in punishing Muslims, He will allow Muslims to pay their own fine of everlasting Hell, but His offer is for you to accept the sacrifice of Jesus Christ in your place.

The Koran speaks of the Injeel, the Gospel, which was given to Jesus Christ. This is how I know the Koran is a false manuscript, because the Gospel is that Jesus Christ, God in the flesh, came to be the propitiation for the entire world, He offered Himself up as the payment for the sins of the world, was crucified in our place, and rose on the third day, defeating death.

The Koran says that Jesus delivered this message; I'm sure you see the contradiction. Jesus could not deliver this message, as He acted it out, its implications were not known until His resurrection.

God is not unknowable, He has created a universe with His glory in mind. He wants us to know Him, and He has made a way for us to be forgiven to be allowed into His presence.

I applaud you for seeking; perhaps in your prayer and search, God has led you to this forum that you might hear the Gospel and respond.

"And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent." - John 17:3

Canyon Shearer:)

Welcome back.

You stated : "If your faith is not solely placed on Jesus Christ, then I beg of you, question everything until you know you have found the Truth, the Way, and the Life."

Certainly, all are seeking the truth, the way and the life as they want to see it, not just the one "Truth", the one "Way" and the one "Life" as called for by you.

A devout Buddhist is most certainly content questioning life within the parameters of Buddhism, just as a devout Hindu or Jew, whatever sects or schools of thoughts of their respective beliefs.

And you quoted the Qur'an as saying : "Do not ask questions about things which if made plain to you may cause you trouble. Some people before you did ask such questions, and on that account lost their faith.".

The Sura you quoted was in the context of unbelievers of God. Certainly it troubled them and made they lose faith. This is acknowledged in the Qur'an that they will be unbelievers, in spite of Muslim belief that to seek God, one only have to look around the earth and heaven. Science is a facilitator to understand the mysteries of God. Science is also a enabler and a servant of human existence.

Surely we both know that God is the Ultimate Unknowable. I am not as certain as you are on the Truth, the Way, the Life. I only seek God's guidance towards the Right Path, the Straight Path for me as a way in this life to seek the truth.

Best regards

Patching Together the Quilt of Faith

That's what Scooter Libby did but it didn't work. How's your quilt coming along?

I am wondering if Hebrews chapter 5 starting at verse 11 ending at chapt 6 verse 12 should be retitled, "The Letter to the Episcopalians".

What a squishy and stupid post by someone who is supposed to be knowledgeable in the Christian 'tradition'. First and foremost, there is an authoritative and normative book, it is called the Bible. If that doesn't work for you, because of your catholic perversion, see then, "The Didache"; then please delve into the doctrine of "Sola Scriptura".

The truth is, Episcopalians and all apostates don't believe the Bible because it says things they don't like; it is authoritative and it will allow for no sin, not the sin of homosexual perversion, nor for promising the lawless there is no Hell; it says clearly that the way is easy and the gate is broad that leads to destruction; that the path to life is only by Jesus Christ. The only way they can justify their lustfilled diversions from God is to say that God is wrong.

Questioning faith is a natural tendency. It is not right, but it is natural. In a perfect world we would know that God is perfect and holy and especially trustworthy. But we don't live in a perfect world, and so breaking the 1st Commandment is the easiest thing in the world to do.

How the respective faiths examine these items is important in determining the right one.

The Koran says, "Do not ask questions about things which if made plain to you may cause you trouble. Some people before you did ask such questions, and on that account lost their faith." - Maida 5:101-102
The religion of evolution says, “Evolution is unproved and unprovable. We believe it only because the only alternative is special creation, and that is unthinkable.” - Arthur Keith
The Torah says, "It is the glory of God to conceal things, but the glory of kings is to search things out." - Proverbs 25:2
The New Testament says, "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." - 2 Timothy 2:15

It is our fallen human condition to doubt God, I'd even go so far as to say that it is our non-fallen human condition; as Eve doubted even before the fall.

And as I believe that true philosophy will match up with true religion; that if it is our natural condition to doubt, God will have given us provision to find the answers to our questions.

For example, if God created everything, who created God? It's a good question, and a question which many sin-lovers use to continue in their sinfilled lives. But God has answered this question in many places, my favorite being; "For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together." - Colossians 1:16-17

God is outside of time, He is not a temporal god, but rather an Eternal God.(2 Peter 3:8) and thus has no beginning and no end.

If we come into the presence of God with the presupposition that He is right, and in all things true, then our doubts should be addressed as, "Lord, I know you are right, but I am not sure how this works, please lead me to the answer." Then God will lead you to the answer in the Bible.

But more importantly, God has told us that no one has sought after Him. (Romans 3:11-12) This is a commandment broken, and James tells us that if you offend in one point, you are guilty of all. (James 2:10) But very few of us are guilty in only one point. The Bible tells us that all liars shall have their place in the lake of fire, that no thief, no drunkard, no greedy person shall inherit the kingdom of God. The Bible tells us that no murderer or adulterer has eternal life abiding in them; but then Jesus expands on that promise and tells us that, "Whosoever looks upon a woman to lust after her has commited adultery already with her in his heart." and "Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer."

Not only have we doubted God's sovereignty, but we have willfully and directly transgressed his laws. Our right punishment is Hell everlasting, a transgression against an infinite God requires infinite retribution.

But God is not willing that anyone should perish, so He made a way that we may be saved and He may be glorified. He became manifest on the Earth, born of a virgin, as the man Jesus Christ; He lived a lifetime of being subjected to temptation but not succumbing. He was the only good human being ever to live. Not that we loved Him, but that He loved us, He offered Himself as the sacrifice for our sins. Jesus took the full wrath of God upon Himself, He was beaten in ways that normally killed mortal men. The pain was intense, and finally He was hung on a cross in complete and utter humiliation. Jesus Christ took hell so we wouldn't have to. He never told a lie, but took the lashes of my lies and yours; He never looked at a woman with an impure thought, but was beaten for our lustfilled stares. In the death of Christ are we forgiven; blood was due for our transgressions, and Christ paid that price with His life.

But not only so, but on the third day, Jesus rose from the grave and defeated death. He reigns victorious over our greatest enemies, sin and the grave.

If you'll repent and put your trust in Him, God will forgive you, you will be given a new heart, and your inheritance of Heaven will be assured, not because you are a good person, but because you are a bad person who has been forgiven by a good God.

If your faith is not solely placed on Jesus Christ, then I beg of you, question everything until you know you have found the Truth, the Way, and the Life.

E Favorite

You stated : "It’s easier and more comfortable for all concerned to just leave it a matter of “tradition” and not mention that “tradition” means “we’ve done it that way or thought that way for a long time, but it’s not based on actual fact."

I agree with your observation of what "tradition" really means. It is a massive and very slow undertaking to weed out "traditions" masquerading as elements of faith in Islam.

Apart from specific cultural practices, they include the countless thousands of Hadiths, many of with purposes and/or justifications tied to obvious political and religious partisanship of their originators and transmitters.

Never mind the originators and transmitters of Hadiths were men of "unimpeachable character", but they are men of their time, specific political affiliations and emerging thoughts and codification of beliefs for the Muslim umma.

Best regards

The previous post 1:10 pm is mine.

Rev Anderson, you use the word “tradition” liberally. So let’s try to define “tradition” as it’s used by the church. In my experience, it’s weasel word, used by clergy to cover themselves or to confuse or mislead parishioners. For instance, a parishioner might ask if the apostles Mathew, Mark, Luke and John actually wrote the gospels, and the minister can “honestly” answer, “According to tradition, the apostles wrote the Gospels” simply leaving out that modern scholarship is fully aware that the authorship of the Gospels is unknown and couldn’t be the apostles because the gospels were not written until after the lifetime of anyone living in the first third of the first century.

It’s easier and more comfortable for all concerned to just leave it a matter of “tradition” and not mention that “tradition” means “we’ve done it that way or thought that way for a long time, but it’s not based on actual fact.