All Comments (36)

But for religion, women would not have a "place," to conform to.

But for religion, men would not have natural superiority.

But for religion, all races of men would be equal, and majorities would have no special authority.

While men or majorities may be stronger and able to impose their will by force, government prohibits force, thereby disabling force as the superior mechanism by which authority is imposed and used - or is supposed to. Lack of government enforcement thereby increases chaos and creates volence to be tolerated on the basis of supporting and establishing religion as natural and supreme authority it must obey.

Without religious pandering, men would have no special authority rooted in male headship, and there would not be a "place" for women except that which recognizes gender equality.

That men have drawn their authority from religion is the biggest hoax of all that is an addiction very difficult for them to break, and which subordinates women to expose them to all forms of physical and psychological violence as to be recognized as criminal methodology, and certainly criminal discrimination for its intent and for its effect.

So much about religion but very little about spirituality. As in all laws the question is in the "intent".

Anyone here ever read "When God Becomes A Drug" by Father Leo Booth. Religion can become an addictive behavior.

Last, Humans reading the bible should remember that it was written by many peaple over a long period of time.

We use terms such as sacred to validate and put beyon reproach so those who do not question shall be forever controllable.

Thus they grow up with sick minds. Hell just observe the politicians in our society.

Trufaith, I am a woman, you are an ass!

It is an undeniable truth that women have played an incredibly important role throughout the history of Christianity. If one does deny this they clearly have spent their lives picking and choosing the doctrines that they wish. It is true that men have used Eve as an excuse to establish a patriarchal society, but we have taken leaps and bounds towards equalizing the gap between these genders.

When studying Christian texts we encounter Thecla, Perpetua, and Felitias. These are examples of ancient Christian martyrs who kept the faith at a time when that could easily mean their death. St. Paul is recorded to have told Thecla to go forth and teach the word of God. How can you support the idea that women do not belong behind a pulpit when St. Paul himself sent a women to preach the word of God.

If one is unfamiliar with these older texts then one can refer to directly to the Bible. Without a woman the New Testament would not have existed, note that a woman was what brought our lord and savoir into this world. In Roman 16:1 Paul mentions the woman Phoebe, who was a deaconess in the early Christian church. Some scholars even credit her with delivering Paul’s epistle to the Roman Christian Church.

Trufaith. If Adam was so perfect in the Garden of Eden by himself, why did God make Eve? It could not have been for relieving the child bearing burden of Adam, as you have suggested because child bearing didn’t become a “burden” till after the eating of the apple. God meant for men and women to balance out each other, and the true mark of a good man is one who loves and respects his wife. Just as James Anderson does his wife. They serve as a perfect example of what a marriage can be, and the partnership that God gifted to us.

I pity those who truly believe that women do not belong in every aspect of the church. Not only is this an affront to women, it hinders the development of our religious community. Denying women the pulpit is the church shooting itself in the foot because of historical theologians that still wanted scriptures to only be in Latin so that not everyone would have access to them. Obviously, they were interested in power. Not the truth.

Considering that Matthew 23:9 specifically enjoins against calling any your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, it would appear that many religious do not read the Bible . . . or read only the portions they agree with.

The books of faith were compiled by men and found only the portions that supported their (comfortable) positions in life worthy of inclusion.

Christ's message was all about love for all . . . it was to Mary Magdalan that He first appeared and it was to her was entrusted the message of the Resurrection. She was the first teacher of the fulfilled Gospel. The men who doubted her were merely the first of the doubters of the Truth, and yet Peter, who definitely doubted the Word, got to claim the top spot and his successors became the dictators that eliminated the ministry of women and suppressed their writings: NOT CHRIST!

It seems with the invention of organized religions we see women in subservient roles. I don't think it was always like that though. I can't help but think "Someone can't take advantage of you unless you let them". We women don't HAVE to put up with what feels wrong, uncomfortable and/or demeaning. We've been hearing and believing lies for far too long. Lies men invented to "keep us in our place", but lies we allowed to take root. When we allow ourselves to really know the truth of our own power and strength, then there's no going back.

Turfaith: "The Holy Bible has the undeniable truth, God's holy word. It was Eve, not Adam seeking to be "like unto God." She listened to the serpent and now all women must pay for that terrible sin. Woman shall remain silent in God's house and her head and face be covered in shame for what she did."

The insanity trufaith spouts is a result of years of teaching someone the faith who is unable to think for themselves and sees power in honoring the faith. Its a condition that religion brings out in people like trufaith. Not unlike the insanity we see in muslim terrorists, willing to kill innocents and themselves with a promise of paradise and 72 virgins. What irks me is religions wave off those like trufaith who hold tightly to their teachings instead letting some of it go, like the inequality of women dictated in some religions. If you are going to teach fantasy to minds that will take it verbatem, you'd better be sure the fantasy is correct in every way. To hear some posting that trufaith is wrong in his/her interpretation of the bible is classic. S/he is correct in quoting of the passages and their meaning. Priests can forgive sin for crying out loud. Isn't that being equal with God? There is only one thing worse than blindly following a religious fantasy and that is following it with conditions that favor your culture and your own personal beliefs. Equality among men and women was never spoken by Christ or Mohammed. Neither was the wrongness of slavery. Death was commonplace. Do you think Christ was the first person crucified? People died by crucifixion daily on the mount. I never read that Christ was against this torturous death or capital punishment in general. And even after Christ was put to death we do not hear that capital punishment should be stopped. The church even practiced capital punishment for hundreds of years.

Listen to trufaith and see what your Friday/Saturday/Sunday worship really is, a means of control through fear and intimidation. They tell you that you are evil and can only become good through the religion. Bunk. People are naturally good and only become evil through indoctrinations like religion. Free thyself and live in the real world where any atheist would be appauld at a person being crucified, burned at the stake or told they would die and burn in hell forever. What sick mind dreamed this up anyway?

As for the pastors wife, well, she ran into a little cultural shock. I didn't read whether you mentioned where you were from but the midwest has its own culture where, from what I've seen, women gladly walk in the shadows of their "men". My wife went to Kansas to visit her grandmother who was ill. I stayed home since I did not have the leave. When she walked into her house her grandmother looked outside and said "where's your man?". She told her that I was at home. In shock the grandmother said "You can't come all the way out here without your man!" My wife tried to calm her down. "Its ok", she said, "I'm perfectly capable of taking care of myself". My wife told me that for the rest of that day her grandmother walked around mumbling that she should have had her man with her.

I have run into women who gladly fall under their husband's shadow, and I blame this on society and upbringing. Happily American society has evolved to where women have a lot more choices and freedom than ever before. And religion had nothing to do with it but instead has followed along, again ignoring the religion's teachings to accomodate the new culture. Religion follows man, not the opposite. We make it what we want it to be, not what it really is. Trufaith understands what it really is and blindly accepts it as truth. If people really knew their bibles and Qurans as trufaith seems to they would run away in disgust. But of course the churchs, synagoges and mosques gloss over those nasty parts to keep the domesticated flock closed in. Sheep indeed.

BA'AL - you left out witches being hanged and burned at the sake as well, like heretics.

Trufaith speaks truth. I looked up that passage from the Bible and that's it alright. Jesus ordained his disciples and empowered them to let sinners into heaven and condemn to hell as they saw fit. Today's ministers are decendants of those disciples, so they claim.

Tomcat

Aquinas, one of the 33 "Doctors of the Church" in Roman Catholicism, justified burning heretics and apostates in his Summa Theologica.

It is scary to think that we are all scratching our head trying to figure out if Trufaith is a parody or not.

As for the Mr. Anderson's comment, I am neither a woman or religious, but it seems obvious that women have fared very badly at the hands of the world's major religions -- at least if one considers subjugation, rape, beating, mutilation, and death to be things worth a comment. These things are empirically observable from almost any vantage point.

"Dear Father Anderson, it sounds to me like you are a Winner in the game of life. Congratulations on a life full of Blessings."

And HOW! I am that son who Jim Anderson speaks of in his posting, and yes, he is a winner!

Mom is too! Way to go.

To Ali, SEH:

You can read? It's Gospel truth and undenialbe. If what ministers bind and loose will be bound and looese by God with no further approval then ministers replace God in decision making. Who will go to heaven and who will go to hell was put in the hands of the ministery by God. Being condemned to hell is astronomically worse than being burned at the stake and going on to heaven. That's a fact and not questionable. It's in the Bible that's God's word and taken word for word from the Bible, Gospel according to Matthew.

Thank you

I have sympathy for women who are mistreated as a consequence of religious practices and beliefs.

I have no sympathy for women who are discriminated against by their religion with respect to attaining poobah status in their religion. They shouldn't want such a position as priest, etc., in the first place; it entails lying to children to keep their job.

Dear Father Anderson, it sounds to me like you are a Winner in the game of life. Congratulations on a life full of Blessings. No doubt you gave as well as you received and it was right so to do. My wife and I...or more specifically my ex-wife and I ...I tried to pursue an equal partnership. It just did not work out that way. I think I may have made an excellent oral surgeon. that was my secondary goal when she and i met in genetics. life intruded upon my plans. we did not meet eye to eye on too many things outside of the bedroom, but i was raised to do the honorable thing and i tried and as i aged i tried harder. we have two Blessings from the marriage. I was ready to make another try at rebuilding our lives together, but i caught her in another lie. nothing earth shattering just trust shattering. one trust is lost it is so very hard to recover. in hind sight i know her lie was a good lie, if there is such a thing. good intentions i guess...some people might call it a white lie as opposed to a black one perhaps. it was a lie and it set into motion events that eventually doomed a marriage that was probably doomed from the start. But as I said, I can count at least two Blessings from the union and many, many lessons. i do not wish ill of my ex. i wish her the best. she was always a hard-working loving mother. i just was not her concept of a husband (i strongly resembled her father) and she was not my ideal concept of wife. If both of us had it to do all over again i think we would run like hell from one another. but then we would not have had the two, and they are worth it. i was just sitting in my genetics classroom minding my own business, and along comes a note. a proposal to experiment in genetics! i appreciate the Blessing some couples have found together and i honor it when i see it. God Bless you and yours Father. thank you for sharing.

Ministers are God's equals?? - Give me a break! I haven't seen many ministers lately walking on water or creating life or producing new mountain ranges - or seeing what is going to happen tomorrow. You need to get a life.

Is this guy truefaith for real?

Tell me this is a joke?

Tomcat - upon the authority of God heretics are burned at the stake. The Bible is perfectly clear. The ministry was given power by God to burn heretics and other sinners as they see fit. They will burn forever in hell anyway. We are doing God's will by sending them on in a fashion commencerate with their fate.

Matthew 18:18 I give you, (speaking to all ministers) the keys to the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

That passage bestows the power of God onto the ministry. If God wants someone burned at the stake they will be burned at the stake. Ministers are God's equals in all things to be decided here on earth.

Praise to the Lord God of Israel! How great Thou art oh mighty God!

I can see excommunication as a punishment for heretics, but upon what authority are they burned?

"In Islam a woman never changes her last namebut retains her own individual identity.

Also there is no original sin...."

same if you have no religion - plus no hassling with a veil.

I understand Mr James Anderson why you are so non committal.

Judges 9:53
a woman dropped an upper mill stone on his head and cracked his skull.

Can't say I blame you.

" trufaith:

We must keep the faith. The sacred scriptures are perfectly clear concerning women's role. We must honor the word of God. Women have no place in religion beyond faith. Sacred scriptures must guide us and that is what they all say.

Posted January 23, 2007 11:45 AM "

If you are sincere - I pity you.

PS: Keep your Karma off my Habeus Corpus.

I commend you Mr Anderson, for not wanting to speak for women. You could not know how it is for women any more than I could know what it is like for women of religion. I have not stepped foot into a church for 35 years.

In Islam a woman never changes her last namebut retains her own individual identity.

Also there is no original sin- women are not blamed for such a thing- all people are born in a state of orgininal grace.

Trufaiths - you is so on's. Womens must got to stays away the pulpits else man's might could gets rouzed up in chirch's an cause mo sinnin.

"and used His holy creation to fabricate woman for man's pleasure "

I hope you are not sitting around wondering why people don't respect your religious beliefs.

I don't think those are Jesus' thoughts...

Phil C - I rest my case on the word of God. God created man and used His holy creation to fabricate woman for man's pleasure and so man could be relieved of the burden of child bearing.

Adam was perfectly happy in the Garden of Eden and would still be there, (Eve caused death) if woman had not betrayed him. The Holy Bible has the undeniable truth, God's holy word. It was Eve, not Adam seeking to be "like unto God." She listened to the serpent and now all women must pay for that terrible sin. Woman shall remain silent in God's house and her head and face be covered in shame for what she did.

Unlearning social behaviour and detaching their roles is a major transformation. Unfortunately, the replacement is anti male, anti institution. This has been accepted at first when women took on new prominent roles, but it has gone beyond the bale.

The folks are now coming out strongly againts women with such labels as 'nazi', 'evil', 'corporate cult', 'gestabo', and so on.

Read some of their greivances in here
http://cyfswatch.blogspot.com

Truefaith - kidding, right?

"Women have no place in religion beyond faith."

that's what the men say...
it makes it easier to hold on to power.

In this era of ranting, unsubstantiated claims, and pitched battles over opinion-questions, I commend your self-conscious decision to stay within the bounds of your experience. From my perspective, your essay is authentic, touching, and a great template for broader statements about the treatment of women in religion.

Reading this essay was an enjoyable, and fruitful experience. Thank you.

We must keep the faith. The sacred scriptures are perfectly clear concerning women's role. We must honor the word of God. Women have no place in religion beyond faith. Sacred scriptures must guide us and that is what they all say.

Just as long as women behave themselves in public all will be well.

You bring up an excellent point with what preachers should be called. What did Jesus have to say on this topic? He has some excellent verses in Matthew chapter 23. He would have been as upset as your wife. Here is an excerpt:

Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

2Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

3All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

4For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

5But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,

6And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,

7And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.

8But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

9And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

10Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

11But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.

Anderson's story reminds me of when I ran across an issue of Southern Living magazine from the early 1980s. Most of the letter writers and recipe contributers were women, but they signed their names as "Mrs. George Taylor" or "Mrs. Frank Jones." I don't know if that old custom was designed to strip women of their public identity, but that seemed to be the effect.

My wife kept her name when we got married, and I'm extremely proud of her for doing that. Not that it's wrong for women to take their husband's last names, but I believe it should be the woman's choice, not society's.

You said this:

"I am certainly not qualified to comment on how well or badly women have fared in the world’s religions through the ages."

What does it take to be an Episcopal priest, no education at all? Do you think religion -- yours in particular -- has been of any help at all to general humanity, or is this too beyond your qualifications for comment?

Thank you,

Bob

sounds like you got a winner in win, jim