All Comments (17)

Mr Mark:

Did you get your "makeup Jesus" kit at the movies when "The Passion" was shown? They make excellent Christmas gifts for those who must keep Christ in the Pagan holiday. What kind of kid wouldn't rather have a plastic Jesus, cross and nails so s/he can play a good old fashioned game of "crucify Jesus" rather than a Nintendo, bicycle, boom box, cell phone...?

Happy Holidays all, and may your team win.

Reverend - Be assured that reason, pluralism, the Constitution, and the vast majority of Americans agree with your sensible comments. Where did the Post find these other loons?

An excellent a thoroughly sensible essay. Thank you. This atheist appreciates it very much.

Very well said; Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas to everyone!

Bravo; lovely column. Where have the good manners gone?

Holy Wars! What has Christmas got to do with the dubious birth of a person known as Jesus? Most scriptural Christian scholars will tell you that even his reported birth does not fit the Winter Solstice which was just stolen for the purpose of exploiting a "pagan" holiday for religious indoctrination. As for Christmas trees, wreaths, c’mon: In Palestine? Santa Claus, toys, mangers, Angels, the whole hocus-pocus may make good theatre but can hardly be distorted to have any Christian basis! Then we get to the twisted inside out stories of Virgin Births, wise man and shepherds, unknown tax collections and censuses, absurd day trips to far lands, incense and Myrrh, guiding stars, etc.; great fun perhaps, but religious?

Seems some posts were deleted, there, but, yeah, when some Christians 'culture-war-ify' Merry Christmas, a holiday greeting has been turned into a litmus test of public piety and a potential threat.

Among the things deleted were me dealing with a casual Christian friend of mine downtown, who cheerfully asked what I was doing for Christmas.

And I was ...so used to answering the preconceptions, that rather than saying, 'Actually, I'll be having a merry Yule with some Heathen folks I know, and spending some of Christmas with an elderly Christian neighbor who is alone up here,'

I just said, 'Thankfully, I won't be travelling to see some relatives. Home for the holidays, and all that.'

Don't ask, don't tell. Or else.

Or, really, ask and expect the minorities to make you comfortable by not mentioning their own holidays.

Is that what America's become, in what's supposed to be a season of peace?

Feh.

Still, while you're snug in your beds, I'll probably be out there sharing a cup of good cheer with thoe you couldn't quite work in.

And not daring tell anyone it's not for Jesus.

Merry F'n Christmas.

To me "Happy Holidays" is plural, meaning "Merry Christmas and Happy New Year." Or "Have a Bangin' Bodhi Day and a Happy New Year." Or "Joyous Whatever Floats Your Boat and Happy New Year."

Plural.

The fact that it also serves to show a little respect when the person's religious practices aren't clear is a bonus, but as has been posted before, Sinatra has been singing "Happy Holidays" since the 50s and I don't think he was an anti-religious pinko Commie.

In reality, if "Happy Holidays" disrespects anyone, it's the atheist who doesn't have that second boat floating, who sees only one holiday at the end of the year. And frankly, I don't think atheists care much and would gladly return the greeting in good cheer.

It strikes me that those who are so offended by "Happy Holidays" are objecting to what they incorrectly perceive as a "don't ask, don't tell" policy with respect to their own Christianity. And they get so agitated over it they about have a stroke. They want to make sure they shove their religiosity under everyone's nose.

I guess they must now have an inkling how gays in the military must feel.

Happy Holidays one and all.

An excellent column. Thank you.

"Christ should not be crowded out of Christmas either by fussy sensitivities or grubby consumerism."

Can we agree that grubby consumerism isn't limited to buying non-Christian items? Some of the grubbiest consumerism one sees in my neighborhood are the life-sized, plastic holy family displays, lit up to an extent that would cause a Las Vegas casino owner embarrassment.

Or how about the conspicuous consumerism of the extremely wealthy? Is that new Lexis in the driveway grubby only if the tag says, "From Santa?" What if that Lexis is a gift from god, the result of sending money to and leading the abundant life espoused by Joel Osteen and others?

Still a good column.

Rev Walker:

Is this just another case of, "we have met the enemy and he is us"?

Isn't these two statements from your essay contradictory?

1. "This yearly battle in the culture war is fought against an enemy that simply does not exist."

2. "Christ should not be crowded out of Christmas either by fussy sensitivities or grubby consumerism."

Folks at the shopping malls aren't the least bit worried about "Christ in Christmas" but somebodies are. Who are they?

It's the annual "aggressive war against shoppers" by the aggressor who wants all the attention and all the money too. That would be?

Ref: http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul

The actual aggressor was Constantine the great founder of Christianity. He is the one who wanted and got all the attention and all the money. And he did something else that's now often imitated, he credited, (blamed) someone else.

I referenced that web page to avoid the lengthy reading of sacred scriptures here. Clearly, sacred scriptures says that Lucifer was the one who wanted and got, on a temporary basis, all the attention and all that the office of God could bring. Constantine held the office of God.

And it was he who assigned Dec 25th to the birthday of the son of the being that lives in a ball of fire. Coincidentally, Christmas was the biggest of Pagan holidays. I know you believe that was God in the ball of fire and I won't attempt to disillusion you.

The notion of "Christmas gifts" has it's roots in the Maji erroneously called kings and wise men. They were a traveling band of magicians, (men with the hands of the gods - Emanuels). Have you seen the picture commemorating their visit at the "birth" of the newborn king - year one of the reign of the king of kings known as AMENophis IV? And they brought gifts for the newborn king. I can't make out the little drummer boy. Can you?

Christmas gifts should all be to the newborn king and none to common people? No gifts at all for anyone? Surely not?

"Second, there is a fine line between political correctness and good manners. For example, it is perfectly appropriate to extend a specific holiday greeting like my Jewish friends do when they wish me a “Merry Christmas,” and I return a “Happy Hanukkah.” But it’s often similarly appropriate to wish another “Happy Holidays” or “Season’s Greetings” if I’m talking to a person whose religious affiliation I do not know. It’s simply good manners and common courtesy to employ a more general greeting. The same goes for merchants who have advertised goods to all Americans of many religious traditions who may or may not celebrate Christmas. None of this disparages Christmas one iota or diminishes its enjoyment in the least."

Thank you, Rev. Walker, well said. This was how I felt as a Christian, and it is how I feel now as an atheist. It's politeness, not political correctness or hostility to Christianity. Some people just need to chill a bit.

A very Merry Christmas to you and your family, Reverend.

Good essay. Mr. Walker gets the distinction between PUBLIC and IN PUBLIC. Government must be scrupulously secular while simultaneously ensuring a public right to religious observance, both in private and in public.

He's also correct in fingering the religious right as the ones acting in bad faith by obfuscating Constitutional principles in pursuit of a fractured society, one piece of which they hope to lead.

So Mr. Walker, from this life-long, hardcore, clear-eyed atheist, a hearty Merry Christmas to you (and a happy new year).

By the way, I'll note that Pagans are perfectly-capable of having a 'Merry Christmas,' and in general, I wish Christians a merry Christmas, too.... it's when this *turns into* a confrontational culture-war thing, or people *take* it to mean you're Christian, that it rankles.

If I wish you a merry Solstice, or a blessed Yule, (Usually don't do this cause people might be confused) ...this doesn't mean I think you're Pagan, or ought to be, and I tend to expect the same. Not for even a 'Happy Holidays,' (Even Christians celebrate plural holidays in this time, ....that is in fact the original usage of the phrase. Twelve days of Christmas, Boxing Day, New Years, etc,) ...to be taken as some 'attack on Christianity.'

When a Jewish friend who's part of the Heathen/Pagan community here wished me a happy Chanukah, I thought that was very nice and wished him one back.

It doesn't have to be like the 'culture warriors' and their 'War on everyone else's cultures' say it does.

'Christmas Trees' are not in fact Christian, they are a European cultural tradition that Pagans also observed, long before the coming Christianity, and *kept* after the coming of Christianity, but they *aren't* a Christian thing that others appropriated... They're a European thing that others, including Christians, are *welcome* to celebrate with. Just as much yours as mine or a Teutonic Heathen's.

They represent the *world tree,* and ever-green. The *season,* not the birth of a guy who never set eyes on a Norway spruce in his much-revered life.

They are not *yours,* they are *ours.*

They are *supposed* to be about light and hope, the returning light and the turning of the year.

This is something which Christians used to be able to harmonize just fine with their me generally rather grim) religion... most of the time... when they weren't trying to abolish Christmas itself as 'Too Pagan' or 'Too Catholic.'

Or whatever.

In fact, a few years ago, these symbols were cause celebre for the Religious Right to claim were Pagan *corruptions* of Christianity, now they claim that the 'True and exclusive Christianity' of this ancient customs is 'under attack' by people who want to 'take the Jesus out of them.'

They aren't yours. They're *ours.*

They were a thing our common ancestors *shared* with Christians, not something Christians invented and are *losing* if in turn it's time for *them* to share, too.

Which I thought was kinda the point.

"It’s ironic that the season during which many celebrate the coming of the Prince of Peace often comes with a manufactured “War on Christmas.” This yearly battle in the culture war is fought against an enemy that simply does not exist."

Just so, Reverend.

This, of course, doesn't mean they don't attack real people that they *call* 'the enemy,' anyway, though.

Mr. Brent Walker,

Thanks for the pluralistic and inclusive greetings for this festive season.

Ramadan, the fasting month, has passed and so was the festival commenmorating its end, the Eid El Fitr.

It is going to be the festival marking the end of the Hajj that is upcoming this week, the Eid El Adha, that Muslims will celebrate.

Thank you again for the festive greetings.

Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas to you.

Thank you and best regards

"J"

Rev. Mr. Walker,

A wonderful essay.

Has this "Agnostic-with-Buddhist-sympathies" been misjudging Baptists in relation to public policy?

I hope so.

Merry Christmas to you.

Jozevz,

You posted all this before on another thread. You're taking up too much space and disrupting the free flow of comments on these threads.

Nevertheless, as before, I wish you the happiest of holidays.