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"For God has a secret he is about to release about the Dali Lama, for he said three new moons will follow over his shadow and then there will be no more shadow following him. For there will be a light penetrating the moral value of the Loin of Judah who roars from on high!"

Dalai Lama becomes Emory professor

By DORIE TURNER, AP

ATLANTA - The Dalai Lama was formally installed as a professor at Emory University on Monday as Tibetan monks wearing large moon-shaped, yellow hats chanted and played cymbals, gongs and horns.

"In a moment there will be buildings tumbling to the ground and fires in the streets and God's voice will cause the earth to shake in a violent way, this is not for anything less than making God of heaven's armies in our own image."

Wildfires rage in Southern Calif.
AP - MALIBU, Calif.

- Wildfires fanned by fierce desert winds threatened thousands of Southern California homes Monday, as firefighters struggled to combat the blazes that rapidly engulfed the region, killing one and forcing thousands to evacuate.

Anonymous,

Several showers and thunderstorms dumped rain on parts of the central and southwest Plains early Monday, then spread northeastward to parts of the Mississippi Valley.
.................................................
October 22, 2007
Rains barrel through southwest Missouri
© 2007, Springfield News-Leader
.................................................
Flood watch posted as rain swamps central, southwest Ohio
Associated Press - October 23, 2007 7:45 AM ET

Underpasses are filling with standing water and fender-benders are numerous across much of Ohio this morning as rain pours down.

The National Weather Service says heavy rainfall could become a serious problem in central and southwestern Ohio, where several counties are under a flood watch until 2 p.m.

The forecasters say up to two inches of rain could come down along and just northwest of the Interstate 71 corridor between Cincinnati and Columbus. The flood watch area also includes Dayton and the surrounding area.

The weather service says flooding is possible along small streams and creeks.
.................................................

Powerful system spawns damaging tornado
Tuesday, October 23, 2007
By KIM LANIER and KATHERINE SAYRE
Staff Reporters
A tornado touched down in south Mobile County on Monday afternoon, overturning a trailer home and damaging a number of other homes, officials said.

Storms throughout the day dumped copious amounts of rain across southwest Alabama, flooding streets and causing traffic accidents.

High winds caused damage, such as downed trees and power lines, in isolated areas.

Apartment 10A
1210 Pennsylvania Avenue
N.W.
Washington 20640
USA
(Please keep this information confidential - JB)

Dear Sirs,

Why do the following quotations conflict?
Rgds, J.B.

THE NEW TESTAMENT

(John 19:18)

“Here they crucified Him, and with Him two others – one on each side and Jesus in the middle.”

THE KORAN

(Surah 4:157)

"....but they did not kill Jesus, nor crucified him, but it appeared so to them (the resemblance of 'Isa [Jesus] was put over another man and they killed that man), and those who differ are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely, they killed him not (i.e. Jesus, son of Mary.)"

THE NEW TESTAMENT

(Romans 10:9)

“That if you confess with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.”

THE KORAN

(Surah 4:159)

"....Jews and Christians must believe in Jesus as only a messenger of Allah and a human being (having no share in Divinity)...."

THE NEW TESTAMENT

(Matthew 28:9)

“Suddenly Jesus met them. ‘Greetings,’ He said. They came to Him, clasped His feet and worshipped Him.”

THE KORAN

(Surah 43:57-59)

“And when (Jesus is worshipped like their idols), behold, your people cry aloud (laugh out at the example)....Jesus was no more than a slave...."

THE NEW TESTAMENT

(John 3:16)

“For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

THE KORAN

(Surah 4:171)

“….far be it from Allah’s glory that he should have a son….”

_________________

Apartment 10A
1210 Pennsylvania Avenue
N.W.
Washington 20640
USA
(Please keep this information confidential - JB)

Dear Sirs,

Why do the following quotations conflict?
Rgds, J.B.

THE NEW TESTAMENT

(John 19:18)

“Here they crucified Him, and with Him two others – one on each side and Jesus in the middle.”

THE KORAN

(Surah 4:157)

"....but they did not kill Jesus, nor crucified him, but it appeared so to them (the resemblance of 'Isa [Jesus] was put over another man and they killed that man), and those who differ are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely, they killed him not (i.e. Jesus, son of Mary.)"

THE NEW TESTAMENT

(Romans 10:9)

“That if you confess with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.”

THE KORAN

(Surah 4:159)

"....Jews and Christians must believe in Jesus as only a messenger of Allah and a human being (having no share in Divinity)...."

THE NEW TESTAMENT

(Matthew 28:9)

“Suddenly Jesus met them. ‘Greetings,’ He said. They came to Him, clasped His feet and worshipped Him.”

THE KORAN

(Surah 43:57-59)

“And when (Jesus is worshipped like their idols), behold, your people cry aloud (laugh out at the example)....Jesus was no more than a slave...."

THE NEW TESTAMENT

(John 3:16)

“For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

THE KORAN

(Surah 4:171)

“….far be it from Allah’s glory that he should have a son….”

_________________

Seriously, though, this author wants to squall about the 'lowest common denominator.'

Step out your 'hierarchy.'

I wil *tell* you about the 'lowest common denominator.'

People live there, and people like you make em beg for a bit of protein.

Someone said....

"So the only real difference in religions is what they call their God (allah, Jesus, yahweh, Zeus) and how many angels there are in their respective imaginary heavens."

I'd say, ...no, not at all.

Thing about certain atheist arguments is their insistence on trying to reduce this whole segment of human experience to something they can flame at.

Would an 0wnz0red, n00b! be in order? :)

Personally, I think Terra has a story that's all about how many brass farthings Christian 'forgiveness' is worth... Assaulted in her home, threatened for years of her life by Christians who say she isn't a real human being... .... till the offender wants an organ transplant and expects to demand 'forgiveness' in the name of theor God, even if it means an assault victim has to lose that protection against some Christian who said her life wasn't worth spit while assaulting her...

People demanding 'forgiveness' of someone who yet still was living in fear, without so much as a 'Real sorry I invaded your home and made you fear for your life for not being Christian, and I somehow never bothered to say I wasn't going to come back all this time, but now it's on you to drop the charges and all legal protections against furhter assaults and 'forgive'....

See, you know, Christians whine about being 'persecuted' if they can't tell same-sex-couples they should be at the mercy of abusive relatives if they have joint property and someone dies....

But... Forgiveness?

What's that if you don't stop hurting people?

You keep talking like treating people like subhumans is your birthright, and now hclaim you have some superior sense of 'forgiveness.'

Know what it's like to not only lose a love, but any plausible chance for a future?

Pull yourself up, do it again, and have *that* taken away cause someone didn't approve of you?

Do it again and again be told you're 'morally inferior' cause you had the temerity to get pneumonia that Christians mocked you for having as 'psychosomatic' cause 'queers are crazy?'

Till of course you see a doctor that goes, 'God, why are you alive? Here, have an antibiotic'.

I'm still just not sure how many of you Biblical people have any idea the suffering you cause.

Never mind angels dancing on the heads of pins...

Just the pinheads.

Worth it, sports fans?

Bush is the worst excuse for a president in
the history of the nation.....any successes
were purely by accident. Nowhere do I see the message of the Dalai Lama practiced by this nefarious bunch.

The felonious invasion of Iraq will go down in infamy. The list of failures would take pages.

The word 'success' does not belong on the same page as .... Bush administration.

just my opinion of course.......

Updating our War on Terror:

1. Saddam, his sons and major henchmen have been deleted. Saddam's bravado about WMD was one of his major mistakes.

2. Iran has been contained. (besides limiting the ancient feud between Sunnis and Shiites i.e. the civil war in Baghdad, that is the main reason we are in Iraq. And yes oil needed to fuel the world's economies continues to flow from the region.)

3. Libya has become almost civil.

4. North Korea is still uncivil but is contained.

5. Northern Ireland is finally at peace.

6. The Jews and Palestinians are being separated by walls. Hopefully the walls will follow the 1948 UN accords.

7. Bin Laden has been cornered under a rock in Western Pakistan since 9/11.

8. Fanatical Islam has basically been contained to the Middle East but a wall between India and Pakistan would be a plus for world peace.

8. And the stock markets and economies around the globe continue to show good growth and opportunity for the common stock holders.

So "lame duck" George and his guys and gals have not been perfect but there are some major accomplishments. Bill Clinton and his crew definitely had their accomplishments but were not "pretty wingie talking flying fictional thingies" either.

This is the third time one of my posts has been censored. Ok so I called the president a candidate for Crimes against humanity. So what if I think that anyone that stoops to use fear as a reason to force folks to join any religion is serving something but it's not the creator of the universe.So what if I called the Prez a lier and murderer? Is that reason to censor?

While some may hate the sin but "love" the sinner...it is so convient to call them names and feel so superior at the same time.

Hate is a useful emotion...my home was broken into one night, I spent the night not knowing if I was going to live or die. I lived through it...and I hated. I hated that man for what he did to me...not only hurting me but for thinking it was ok because of who I am and for leaving me knowing I was not never safe, not in my home or my life.

Thinking it is ok to hate sin soon makes it ok to hate the person or the group. And then 9-11 happens...or a person is left to beg for her life.
Hateing the sin is a cop out to enable you to feel righteous in hateing the person.

terra

Matthew:

I don't hate Christians.
I have love for all. IT's the people that represent themselves poorly that I have a problem with.

As for getting Bush Re-elected, yea, I wouldn't be too happy about that. Have you seen what the guy has done? Not a SINGLE THING TO BE PROUD OF.

The guy would rather stay at war than pay for better healthcare for poor kids. What a joke. Bush needs to be taken out of office. Read the Constitution. Says right there that he should be removed from office. The man is a war criminal, plain and simple.

JOshua: you definitely did not answer my questions. just in case you're right.. I will be watching the news to see if your prophecy is correct.
If your prophecy is wrong, will you promise to stop with the "thus saith the lord??"

Looketh foward to your posteth on the morrow, sir.

hi...gaby.. how art thou?

Chiguaga:
I need to get a job. "On faith" is killing me...

I too my friend find the debates here killing me...I have never in my life felt such anger, love, understanding, confusion, and least of all mindless rants by several people who just don't seem to grasp the straws of sanity...but alas I have a job my friend and I was once homless, mere months ago with nothing, but now I have found LIFE.

It is hard to define what 'people' consider 'good' moral' and 'upright'...but it easy to see what God considers on these matters..It is all in the OLD Testement, as Well as the New; however, I think most would agree that if we attend church never open a Bible and just take the preachers word for it then we have what we have today....millions regerjetating (sp) what they learned in the church...

Quite frankly i put myself in the Christian category, but never for one second would I file myself under any of the demoninations (yes I said it right) What better to destroy Jesus' words then the lack of control running ranmpant in all of these religious settings...I mean come on these fake Christians that ruin our works...The catholic church was in the beginning a joke...now when ROME declared it the official religion of the Empire it gained instant credibility...why did it take Rome to make such simple teachings gain power....because now look at our society...WOW BIG FREAKIN WHOOP THAT THE POPE IS POWERFUL...oh yeah except to destroy the good that Christians do.

Xymerian Monk

ps the Catholics are not Christians, they are some of the most misguided of all...when you infuse that much Pagan belief into your Religion you seem to forget that Jesus didn't ever mention 'go ye and slay all those who oppose me'

paganplace: that was one of the best explanations of the dangers of "love the sinner--hate the sin" that I've ever read. Good job!
Thanks for that.. It has meaningful application in my own life. Cheers!

The phrase "hate the sin, but love the sinner" seems to have become a popular political device during the last election cycle in an attempt, I believe, to take the edge off what was becoming an increasingly strident message against gays and whoever else might have been in their cross-hairs at the time. I don't think it's an accident that it's resurfaced in this piece, by a Christian lobbyist, as we trudge through another election cycle.

As a concept, it has huge upsides. The religious conservatives get to define sin for everyone else: they get to appear to be humbly magnanimous: they get to publicly identify people, especially those they disagree with, as 'sinners'.

While it can't be easy for religious conservatives to even *say* they love homosexuals, for instance, I'm sure it's a whole lot easier since they also get to call them sodomites at the same time.

The Pharisees also tried to trick Jesus into judging others based on their "sins" of not following certain rules and impying a complexity that didn't exist.

He clarified things to the simplest possible terms:

1) Love your God with all your heart, mind, and soul

2)Love your neighbor as yourself.

*sigh,* That "Love the sinner, hate the sin" thing again.

There's no such thing. It's just an excuse to act hatefully toward people one can call 'sinners' while denying being a 'hater.'

It's usually just code for 'Let's deny LBGT people exist and are really just doing something bad,' ...so, of course, one can claim a minority is nothing but a graphic depiction of certain kinds of sex, and thus can be repressed.

I think that kind of idea is what *leads* to the 'porn addiction' some Fundamentalists claim is a battle between 'demons,' (what, a sex drive?) and righteous Christianity, (suppressing that sex drive instead of necessarily expressing it responsibly)

I think it's why closeted homophobes in government and religion can't come to terms with their own sexuality, but rather reinforce the repression that gives them 'demons' to 'fight' (say by 'struggling' with bathroom sex by using religion and politics to try and 'abolish homosexuality' instead of leading a whole and honest life.)

People who 'love the sinner' (how, by trying to stigmatize and coerce them) but 'hate the sin,' (how, by treating people's romantic lives as the 'dirty, dirty, bad' 'compulsive temptation' that they make their own sexuality out to be?) are generally making 'sins' too big and supernatural to see clearly. It just sublimates the repressed sexuality (and yes, it's almost always about sexuality) to political and religious causes.

That's neither love, nor compassion... and 'forgiveness' is hardly relevant when labelling someone a 'sinner' was unjust in the first place.

Bgone,

I assume you mean well but your website as noted before has no attestations or references and is akin to Joe Smith's and also Mohammed's "angelic" hallucinations. Your sitings are a bit different since there is signficant evidence that you are seeing "demons of the demented".

What dose the Bible say about the equality of churches?

Matthew 16:18 [Jesus speaking]
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

That's the big oops good buddy Baptists. Did Jesus say churches? Of course not. There's but one equal church. That's not all Jesus said.

Matthew 16:19 [Jesus speaking]
And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Heretics shall all go to hell. Peter was appointed pope by Jesus and given the power to define sins. All Baptists and all other non Roman Catholics are heretics and were condemned to hell centuries ago.

Evidently Jesus thought that was important enough to repeat.

Matthew 18:18 [Jesus speaking]
Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

It's a crying shame how little Baptists know about what the Bible says. But then who was Jesus? According to the Bible Jesus was the son of the supernatural being in the ball of fire, the one to whom Moses sold his soul to become the biggest shot that ever lived.

There Baptists go again, http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul Ignorance is no excuse no matter how ignorant they are.

The pope has no requirement to announce the continued condemnation of all Baptists to hell and is free to lie and say he's withdrawn the earlier condemnation. Pitiful.

Not to worry. Lucifer welcomes all churches. Did I mention there's a fire extinguisher in heaven? Just as soon as Lucifer takes over heaven...

I dispute J. Brent Walker's assertion that "all religions are not created equal." They all are, indeed! They're all PERNICIOUS!

Farfalotis of the blowhole.

therefore is sinful) should seek a good marriage so that they can discover what love and real sexual enjoyment are all about. Pornography rots the mind and degrades the human condition.
2.) There is no real evidence as to how much of Jesus real teachings are contained in the New Testament. But even if the amount is 30 percent, the rest of the scripture is based on the Jesus tradition. So the real question should be could Jesus have said it? Check the Sermon On The Mount which just about everybody agrees is the closest thing we have to the original Jesus tradition.
3.) As a life long Christian I have found that the problem with hating the sin is that we usually end up acting hatefully to the sinner. Also we tend to be more kind to our own sins than the sins of others.
4.) True, a good number of the recognized founders of our country where God believers but not Christian. Also true, more than a 100 years before they appeared Christian sects came to the Americas. Their thinking greatly influenced the founding principles of this nation.

I need to get a job. "On faith" is killing me...

You are absolute right! All religions are not created equal. My religion is superior to all others. In fact, any religion other than mine is not worth two cents. The reason I know this is true is because I hear it from all, "My religion is superior to all others!"

What a load of manure.

Yea and the religionists in the American evangelical movement are as bad as the Taliban. They hold cointept for others. They challenge Barak Obama's christianity on a gossip rumor that he is a muslim dispite his outward and obvious christian traditions. They support the worst eleements of hate in Israel allowing the palestinians to die in the dirt of thirst hunger and gunfire while supporting the illegal construction of settlements on stolen palestinian lands.

It is endless with you people. Jesus is disgusted by your actions and your hypocrisy

Terry: you're great!
Congratulations. I think as you..............

It seems to me that it is asking an awful lot of human beings in the instruction to "hate the sin but love the sinner." Hate is such a powerful word representing a very destructive emotion, which when unleashed within a person can not help but bleed across the distinction between a person and his/her actions. I have felt what I think was hatred in moments of anger and rage, but fortunately those moments pass. As I grow older, I am understanding the source of my anger and rage and it is almost never due to an agent outside myself.
I would suggest that a change to "reject the sin but love the sinner" might more accurately reflect religions of all stripe at their best. Words have meanings and they also have consequences when repeated often enough. While it might appear that the danger of rejecting the person is as possible as hating the sinner, it seems to me more likely that hating anything connected to a person is a gateway to hating the person, as well as the source of much personal unhappiness on the part of the "hater".

Matthew:

Who will burn in the fires of hell? Is it those who "accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior" or those who do not?

A word to the wise, http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul

Sacred scriptures say:
1. The being in the ball of fire was Devil, probably Lucifer.
2. Jesus is the son of the being in the ball of fire.

There is but one logical conclusion. Not to worry. There's a fire extinguisher in heaven. All that's needed is to get enough people into hell so Lucifer can raise an army big enough to attack heaven again and win. He almost won last time. Fight hard and good luck.

The ministry can enjoy the big money now but they will pay later. According to sacred scriptures that is.

VAL:

Where did you get the idea that Gaby is a born-again Christian? I assure you she is not Christian.
And she never said anything that even remotely resembled acceptance of child rape.
She said that she had no objection to porn, and that it was, like most things, fine as long as it isn't excessive.
And I have to agree with her that calling someone from your church to stop you every time you got an urge to look at a picture of nekkid people while spanking your monkey seems a bit much.

Rev. Walker writes:

"Forgiveness (even seventy times seven) does not mean that we never make judgments ... "

I say, Rev. Walker, get back to the Bible! You have surely read Matt. 7:1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged."

Infinity has no will - on the other hand, humans imagine themselves to have 'free' will - that is a completely egocentric position, and is certainly open to debate. Infinity manifests itself spontaneously and continuously forever without purpose or meaning - because infinity needs neither by it's very nature.

If religion is the result of trying to comprehend this enigma, then religion typically falls short, and the truth remains beyond human understanding. Religion largely appears to be a reflection and duplication of human life re-worked in 'sacred'images - and really nothing more or less.

Science in it's relative infancy seems to be doing a better job by and large. If the human body was not largely autonomous in all of it's important systemic functions and co-lateral processes, there would be no thinking, cogitating, decision-making, moralizing, or other exercises in the use of 'free will'. Each human system is infinitely complex and the fine tuning of processes is much like the fine-tuning of the cosmos. It either works or it doesn't. The conscious mind generally has little control (but not to say no control) over these unconscious functions - and a good thing, no?? How many million per second, one wonders?

And yet, it not this super-organized & 'unknown' basis of individual life the real essence and foundation of conscious life as we know it? And are we not 'it'?

Humans confuse themselves on this point to their own detrement, and owe it to themselves to discover their own true nature.

"[M]any Christians are taught that love for God and one another must not dissuade us from actively hating sin itself."

Wow. So you've got to hate sin in Christianity, huh?

Can you oppose something without hating it? Even if you hate something that's bad, you're still hating.

I think that a lot of the "discrimination" that Christians complain about today stems from their religion's long -- and apparently continuing -- legacy of hate. Western society has been dominated by Christianity for nearly two thousand years, and only now are we emerging from its often harmful effects. For a religion supposedly based in love, even a brief glance at its past will reveal a history soaked in the blood of countless innocents.

Maybe when Christians decide that hate has no place in their faith will people be more receptive to their "good news."

Victoria, Victoria, Victoria,

You noted: "jesus was pretty clear on judge not lest ye be judged-
but that doesnt mean we lose the ability to wisely discern."

And we have wisely discerned that Islam is a sham religion.

We have a free five-point program guaranteed to cure your "koranic" brainwashing. Are you ready?

Using "The 77 Branches of Islamic "faith" a collection compiled by Imam Bayhaqi as a starting point. In it, he explains the essential virtues that reflect true "faith" (iman) through related Qur’anic verses and Prophetic sayings." i.e. a nice summary of the Koran and Islamic beliefs.

"1. Belief in Allah"

"aka as God, Yahweh, Zeus, Jehovah, Mother Nature, etc." should be added to the your brainwashed neurons.

"2. To believe that everything other than Allah was non-existent. Thereafter, Allah Most High created these things and subsequently they came into existence."

Really???? Evolution and the Big Bang or the "Gib Gnab" (when the universe starts to recycle) are more plausible and the "akas" for Allah should be included if you continue to be a "creationist".

"3. To believe in the existence of angels."

A major item for neuron deletion. Angels/devils are the mythical creations of ancient civilizations, e.g. Hittites, to explain/define natural events, contacts with their gods, big birds, sudden winds, protectors during the dark nights, etc. No "pretty/ugly wingy thingies" ever visited or talked to Mohammed, Jesus, Mary or Joseph or Joe Smith. Today we would classify angels as fairies and "tinker bells". Modern devils are classified as the demons of the demented.

"4. To believe that all the heavenly books that were sent to the different prophets are true. However, apart from the Quran, all other books are not valid anymore."

Another major item to delete. There are no books in the spirit state of Heaven (if there is one) just as there are no angels to write/publish/distribute them. The Koran, OT, NT etc. are simply books written by humans for humans.

Prophets were invented by ancient scribes typically to keep the uneducated masses in line. Today we call them fortune tellers.

Prophecies are also invalidated by the natural/God/Allah gifts of Free Will and Future.

"5. To believe that all the prophets are true. However, we are commanded to follow the Prophet Muhammad alone."

Mohammed spent thirty days fasting in a hot cave before his first contact with Allah aka God etc. via a "pretty wingy thingy". Common sense demands a neuron deletion of #5. #5 is also the major source of Islamic violence i.e. turning Mohammed's "fast, hunger-driven" hallucinations into horrible reality for unbelievers.

Accept these five points and we guarantee a complete recovery from your Islamic ways!!!!

Different point of view... nice post. Good and evil are relative in the cosmic scheme of things. And you are correct the strength of America is freedom, not Christianity.

Matthew. You need to expand you mind. God is far greater than you seem to imagine. As for Jesus not being Divine. I think Crossan could be right in wrong. If he is trying to point out that Jesus is not different than us in the spiritual realm then I agree. In this realm as a human he was not only intimately aware of who God was, but he was intimately aware of who he was and who we are. Where Crossan and I differ is I believe Christ was divine as are we all.

We are all one manifested in the illusion of being separate. The essence of God is love, not vengeance.

All great truths start as apostasy.

Matthew,

Add most contemporary NT exegetes to the "Crossanians" of the world. A list of their names are shown at http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html along with the titles of their books (over 100) about the real, historic Jesus. I recommend that you read some of them. These experts have reviewed NT scripture and related texts from the first to third centuries before making their conclusions. These texts are on-line for your own perusal. http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/

The Maxim "love the sinner hate the sin" IS NOT IN THE BIBLE.

In fact, the contrary is in the Bible in a form that the sinner who's deeds cause others to sin, has that responsibility cast upon him and he is in deep trouble, in fact, deep, deep trouble with the MAN Above.

Matthew:

You are extremely uninformed about the founding of this great nation. People like Jefferson, Madison and Adams fought adamantly to keep Jesus, Christianity, God and religion in general OUT of the nation's makeup, as evidenced by the lack of any mention of such topics in the Constitution, save for the prohibition against passing laws establishing religion. I have pasted some interesting quotations below. The point is that this country owes its existence to men who were intellectually SEPARATED from deference to religious authority and who valued REASON above all other tools of understanding (if they even recognized any other tools). Please educate yourself, preferably not via Rush Limbaugh et al or through church propaganda. Go right to the sources - there are plenty of biographies (and AUTObiographies) of these great men. On a closing note, you should read the Jefferson Bible - a version of the New Testament that Thomas Jefferson created by removing all material that offends reason and historical scholarship. It's a quick read!

"The government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion--as it has itself no character of enmity against the law, religion or tranquility of Musselmen [Muslims], ..." (Article 11, Treaty of Peace and Friendship between The United States and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli of Barbary), signed by then President George Washington.

"All persons shall have full and free liberty of religious opinion; nor shall any be compelled to frequent or maintain any religious institution" Thomas Jefferson.

"But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

"Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting 'Jesus Christ,' so that it would read 'A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;' the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination." -Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom

"The question before the human race is, whether the God of nature shall govern the world by his own laws, or whether priests and kings shall rule it by fictitious miracles?" - John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson, June 20, 1815

"Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind." - John Adams, "A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America" (1787-88)

"God is an essence that we know nothing of. Until this awful blasphemy is got rid of, there never will be any liberal science in the world." - John Adams, "this awful blashpemy" that he refers to is the myth of the Incarnation of Christ

"The civil Government, though bereft of everything like an associated hierarchy, possesses the requisite stability, and performs its functions with complete success, whilst the number, the industry, and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people, have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the church from the State" - James Madison, (Letter to Robert Walsh, Mar. 2, 1819).

"Strongly guarded as is the separation between religion and & Gov't in the Constitution of the United States the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history." - James Madison (Detached Memoranda, circa 1820).

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason: The Morning Daylight appears plainer when you put out your Candle." - Benjamin Franklin, the incompatibility of faith and reason, Poor Richard's Almanack (1758)

"I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies." - Benjamin Franklin, quoted from Victor J Stenger, Has Science Found God? (2001)

"Many a long dispute among divines may be thus abridged: It is so; It is not so. It is so; it is not so." - Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, 1743

Concerned the Christian:

It is absolutely shocking that you would bring up in your defense Crossan, a known apostate. Do you know that Crossan denies the divinity of Christ? That is blasphemy. He will incur the wrath of God and will burn in the eternal fires of hell.

Russel:

You can scorn me all you want. Jesus taught His apostles that they will be hated for their beliefs. Let me also say that even though you mock us Christians, we are committed to reclaiming our Christian Nation. Remember that we were responsible for re-electing President Bush. We will take back our cities, we will take back our culture, and we will take back our country. God blass America.

If God is truly infinite then God expresses Itself in all forms. This includes wars, natural disasters and pornography. To do any less would be self-limiting on God's part and make God less than infinite.

Created in God's image, we, too, have the potential to be infinite, but have not realized that potential yet. Therefore, God gives us fee will so that we can choose that subset of infinity to focus on during our lives. In order to make use of that free will, we must have a basis for choice so that our lives have continuity and purpose. That is what the story of the apple in the Garden of Eden is about. It is not about damning the human race to original sin, but giving us the ability to evaluate our actions so that we may intelligently use our free will.

To have stayed in the Garden eating free fruit for eternity would have led to stagnation for humanity. It is through challenge and experiencing consequences that we grow. That is why we had to leave the Garden (metaphorically or physically doesn't matter).

Part of infinity is conflicting viewpoints. These create growth as well. If we believe God created man, then God created atheists, Buddhists, Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc. for a reason. Each path is different and each path teaches us something different as part of a larger picture.

I proffer the view that the United States rose from birth to world dominance in a brief 200 years, not because it is a Christian nation (there are nations with far greater percentages of Christians which have been around much longer than the US), but because the US most celebrates free will and diversity.

Therefore, God allows both good and bad things happen to us; to do otherwise would be to diminish our free will and our growth. God does not judge our actions because these actions are part of God's infinity. And above all, we are not punished for our choices (although they do have consequences), as the right to make choices is our birthright. Therefore, no one goes to hell for observing a different religion. After all, what Christian would torture his child for the rest of her life for coming home and announcing she had converted to a different religion? We would say that a parent who did so was wrong. So if we who are evil would not do so, then neither would God who is good.

I believe in the end fundamentalism in any religion will become obsolete. It is not a sustainable model. Man is designed, theoretically, to be a logical being. Logically fundamentalism is flawed.

The universe is so vast both in the macro sense of cosmology of the universe and the microcosm of quantum physics. If God created everything, including the spiritual realm what makes you think our meager awareness of God can be confined to a few million words spread across all religious writings.

Fundamentalism also limits freedom, which is in contrast to natural order. The natural state of things is freedom and people yearn to be free. The other natural order is change.

I am going to generalize here but personally I will take an atheist in most situations over a fundamentalist. I see atheists much more adaptable and adaptability is another trait of the natural order of things in the physical realm. I know I will get arguments that religion is about the spiritual realm. My retort would be the physical realm is just a part of the whole of existence. We are all one and if a religion can not benefit the whole and does not include the whole then it is not complete.

Religion is only a tool for man to use. Like any other wool it can be used for great good or to the determent of society.

I think we will make some headway once we entertain the thought that God is both the creator (a personal God or the intelligence behind the universe) and the created (pantheist view). If we are not able to take a logical approach then I think we are short changing ourselves. It is very arrogant to think we have the answers to all of is. I think it is in our best interest to continue to expand our understanding and awareness of any or all of God, the universe, society and human consciousness.

All religions have at the core love, compassion and forgiveness because they all arise and are fed by the same human desire for meaning and transcendence. Unfortunately, as institutions of man, they also have at their core a struggle for wealth and power.

The Dalai Lama celebrates that aspect of religion which embodies our common humanity. Bless him.

Rev. Walker suggests that all religions are not equal - yet there is not a word in the essay that would give us a clue that he considers Christianity (I assume Baptists Joints are Christian) to be any better than any other religion. It would be nice to mention that Jesus is "the Way, the Truth, and the Life" - even while respecting the religious beliefs of those who have not yet come to know Him.

Columbia at Ashburn - I'm glad you're in a better place today, too.

Treament for Sexual addiction is available form credentials counselors and there are also many effective self-help groups not associated with a religious denomination.

In these settings, the addiction is not treated as a sin and the professionals and others involved are just as concerned and supportive, without the overlay of being assisted by a supernatural being, or else being damned by him.

MikeM:

"If Baptist were really Christian they would follow what Christ said and be a part of the Church Christ founded - the Catholic Church. Remember...the apostles...they became the Popes and Bishops..."

Christ founded a church? Amazing. I'd never have guessed that. People founded churches to continue Christ's work. It was centuries before the various bishops could even agree on which books should be included in the Christian Bible.

Unless one subscribes to the theory of Apostolic succession, the Apostles most certainly did not become Popes and Bishops. Although they founded churches, they chose others to lead those churches.

Now, I can heartily agree with that "If Baptist were really Christian they would follow what Christ said," although I would change the word "Baptist" to "Christian". You see, it's not where one worships, it's one's faith that counts. If I live according to the teachings of Christ, I am a Christian even though I might never set foot in a church. On the other hand, attending church no more makes me a Christian than going to a car lot makes me a Chrysler.

Mike

I think people can look at their self and actually love their self first and than they will gain the capacity to love others. Cause and Effect.

I also think if people can learn to appreciate their self, they will also gain appreciation for others, Cause and Effect again.

Buddhism teaches there is no separation between self and others, self and the environment. To experience joy separate from others and the environment is not joy but something else.

All religions that teach the basic concept of Cause and Effect at their doctrinal foundation are surely equal in merit and practice, I believe.

Patrick

All banks carry money (but) unless one's credit being good,there aint money to be got.As one's individual, spiritual account,if being it empty, then one's credit, word as bond,being worthless.

Well then - who created God?? See, it just doesn't make any sense.

I like the Buddhist view, and one closer to the (current) findings of modern science .... the cosmos always was and always will be - no beginning and no end, just transitions, transformations, and changes. It is exclusively your job to see if you can get out of the maze.

The Big Bang may be one in an infinite series of Big Bangs - the concept of infinity is so hard to grasp logically that folks just have to put a name to it ...... eg. God, Allah, etc.etc.etc.

My goodness. No one understood nothing.
Well, indeed we need a messiah graduated in Harvard to talk only to all genious people in this old world...And by the way listen to Brent Walker, the only one who deeply understands Christianity, religions, feelings, love, intelligence, CIA. FBI, powerty, richness, what else?..etc....

I'm glad that Mr. Walker, in general, endorses the idea that the major world religions — at their best — embody the principles of love, compassion and forgiveness. But at least two of them--Islam and Christianity--declare that their religion is the only true religion. You're not really doing God's will on earth, say the Christians--and you certainly won't make it to heaven--unless you've accepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior. Ditto, Muslims about their faith. The Pope, of course, recently reiterated the Catholic viewpoint that it's not just Christianity but the CATHOLIC version of Christianity that is the sole key to unlocking heaven's gate.

That raises a little complication about being full of love, compassion and forgiveness, doesn't it? I mean, if only you and those who believe like you are truly God's chosen, and the rest of humanity is on a fast track to hell, it sort of stands to reason that you don't really have to care for those people on earth, doesn't it? You can make war on them, kill them, torture them, imprison them, forcibly relocate them, send them to gas chambers, enslave them--all with the certain knowledge that people like Rev. Walker and the Pope have reassured you that you, not those others, are God's chosen people.

In other words, just beneath all that love, compassion and forgiveness lurks an exclusiveness that will fuel conflict, division, violence, and war till the end of time.

To many of us, the idea that a God would create the human race only to rig the details so that only a tiny minority of all the humans that have ever and will ever live will enjoy eternal salvation, while condemning the great mass of humanity to eternal damnation, is a twisted and perverted idea second only, for example, to such twisted and perverted ideas that putting 6 million people in gas chambers or enslaving a race of humanity for hundreds of years could be done in the name of serving a just God.

The bottom line of all this for we Americans is: Thank God for the Founding Fathers who in a burst of infinite wisdom saw through all this claptrap and enshrined in our founding document the isolation and insulation of religion from our civic life.

if we all cleaned our own skeletons first we've never get done - a thinly disguised way to never be corrected.

And while you all may not believe there is any way to prove religion or God that doesn't mean there isn't an objective truth. We don't know there isn't water on Mars but any 5 year old can tell you there isn't both water and not water on Mars.
It doesn't matter if you don't believe in God. He can exist.

Come on, I thought Washingtonians were smarter than that.

One more thing. If Baptist were really Christian they would follow what Christ said and be a part of the Church Christ founded - the Catholic Church. Remember...the apostles...they became the Popes and Bishops..."Whatsoever you bind on earth shall be bound in Heaven...all that good stuff.

sn't a square shaped planet out there but any 5 year old can tell you they both

Religions are different from each other.

F