All Comments (49)

Canyon Shearer:

I don't disagree with you entirely, but disgust is rather too strong as a sweeping generalization. There was a rich young man who vowed to follow Jesus, so Jesus told him to go and sell all that he had and give to the poor and come and follow Him. The young man went away sad because he had many riches. And Jesus beholding him, loved him.

Crucifixion did not kill Jesus on the cross. He died of a broken heart. John made a careful note of that fact. Jesus wept over those who were lost.

On the other hand, and more in line with what you are saying -- I think -- is that Jesus did not love everyone as some modern preachers would have you believe. He told the religious elite point blank that they would go into perdition. Worse yet, he told them that they would see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob sat down in the kingdom of heaven and they themselves thrust out. He never forgave Judas Iscariot. He called King Herod a fox, which is no compliment, and when he referred to some men as scorpions, viper's brood, and swine we have a clear picture of how he felt about some persons. He didn't mince words.

Without repentance, there is no forgiveness of sins.

ANONYMOUS:

Interesting bit of prose. Did you write that yourself? I'm not entirely sure what you mean, but it does bring to mind these scriptures. "God is a Spirit, and those that worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in Truth." "God is Love." "They who have not the Spirit of Christ are none of His."

It is not that we worship the god of our vain imaginations, but that we are renewed by the Spirit that works within us to transform us into the image of Christ.

'There is only the god in your own mind,
and that god will be like you in all ways.
Better a god conceived in love, than born in
wrath and condemnation. You will be known
in the Spirit by the god of your own mind'.

russellites! i havent heard that one in a while-

they started in pittsburgh too-

and they also dont celebrate christmas..(jehovahs witnesses)

John,

I see what you mean now, and unfortunately it falls in line with the dispensationalism. This tolerant jesus you have fashioned is not the Jesus Christ of the Bible.

Jesus said, "Repent, or you shall likewise perish." He was not a tolerant man, He would abandon you to die in your sins, but it was not out of tolerance, but disgust.

Canyon Shearer,
By proselytize, I mean the relentless pursuit of the unconverted to a particular belief system, just as the Mormon missionaries and Russelites ring doorbells and annoy masses of people with their pedantic diatribes, or the way the Catholic missionaries, such as the Jesuits, used violence and torture to compel aboriginal persons to convert on pain of death, often enslaving them in the process.
Persons wanting to know the Truth more perfectly went to Jesus to learn, and he did in fact travel to avail as many as possible to hear him, but he didn't buttonhole or pigeonhole anyone. A number of communities told him to leave them alone, and so he did. He once asked his disciples, "Will you go away also?" It was clearly their choice. He didn't try to persuade them. In this, he was very Jewish. If one wishes to convert to Judaism, the Rabbi will welcome you to study the faith, but no Jewish authority is going to run you down and try to convince you to convert.

well, thats kind of sad daniel-

i grew up in pittsburgh, not a small town at all-

as a matter of fact- it was the creche in the courthouse that instigated one of the first court case about this issue!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Establishment_Clause_of_the_First_Amendment

The inclusion of religious symbols in public holiday displays came before the Supreme Court in Lynch v. Donnelly (1984), and again in Allegheny County v. Greater Pittsburgh ACLU (1989). In the former case, the Court upheld the public display of a crèche, ruling that any benefit to religion was "indirect, remote, and incidental."

In Allegheny County, however, the Court struck down a crèche display, which occupied a prominent position in the county courthouse and bore the words Gloria in Excelsis Deo, the words sung by the angels at the Nativity (Luke 2:14 in the Latin Vulgate translation). At the same time, the Allegheny County Court upheld the display of a nearby menorah, which appeared along with a Christmas tree and a sign saluting liberty, reasoning that "the combined display of the tree, the sign, and the menorah...simply recognizes that both Christmas and Hanukkah are part of the same winter-holiday season, which has attained a secular status in our society."

BUT- the US STEEL BLDG allowed a life size construction of an exact replica of the creche at the Vatican on their very large very exposed property (also about less than 1 block from the courthouse)
the only one of its kind in the world- (well- except for the vatican of course)

it was really magnificent-
and i was a muslim whe it was up so it had to have been less than 10 years ago-

i took alot of photos which i still have

and thats pretty recent-

ill have to ask my dad if they still do that-
but you can hardly call that a falsely constructed memory of the good old days!

sorry the anon was me above daniel-

When I was a little kid in the 1950's and 60's in a small southern town, we did not have any public celebration of Christmas in the "town square." In fact, we did not have a town square; we had a court house.

We did not have a town creche, no cross, nor even a town Christmas tree. We did not have any Christmas plays or pageants in school, and we did not sing Christmas songs or carols in school. We almost never sang in school, at Christmas time, nor any other time.

The town did put up some tired old Christmas decorations; they were a succession of colored lights, strung over Main Street, with a lit star in the middle of each one. Even way back then, they were old and a little sad looking, probably purchased under some FDR New Deal program of the 1930's.

So, I cannot see that the good old days had massive Christmas celebrations in the public schools and public squares. Back then, there were lots of churches, as there are today, and that is where we had our religion.

I think alot of people are experiencing "false memory recontsructions" or something about how the good old days were.

this is an apt observation, and would make sense if this were an issue that was just created-

but american public squares have had christmas decorations and celebrations for at least an entire century-

i think the reactions on both sides are a bit alarmist-

people have an attachment to christmas and decorations-

are any here really diminished by anothers expression?

recent pew polls say that at least 80% of americans consider themselves christian-

today is the muslim celebration of EID.

its the second biggest holiday for muslims.

my celebration and observance isnt diminished, sidelined, or relegated to obscurity in my own heart because i see a creche or a tree displayed.

my own landlord looked visibly startled when i wished him merry christmas yesterday.

as if i were committing some unseen non-PC faux pas.

but then he perceptibly relaxed and smiled too-

why should people have to be nervous about their holiday?

instead of worrying about stupid things like this- you all should be worried about the erosion of your civil rights, the patriot act- homeland security's presidential directive 51 which gives the president power to disband congress and have absolute power if he declares an emergency (up to his discretion of course)
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55824

be alarmed at REAL threats facing us

not bogus trumped up indignation at decorations and benignly given greetings of merry christmas

were in a pluralistic society- that means we have to tolerate each other-

intolerance is just as unseemly coming from any mouth as it is from a christians.

yes, christians can express themselves too-

if any here want to go and put a menorah, or yule log or whtever up at the town square- go for it-
the US has already set the limits, decided in courts, esptablished the separation of church and state-

no one is stopping anyone here from expressing themsleves- why would the so called proponents of free expression come out so virulently against anothers free expression?

i think political correctness is just as coercive and stupid as any other form of thought control

The history of Pope Pius XII and his official response to the Holocaust is very mixed at best.
After googling a number of resources one can only conclude that the Church could have wielded far more influence in preventing the Nazi atrocities of the time period.

The pope diligently maintained the official church position of neutrality, while from time to time speaking out against the waves of mass murder that were being carried out (but never referring specifically to Jewish victims). He never acknowledged Kristallnacht (night of broken glass) as the event that initialized the Nazi plan for Jewish genocide.

It is theorized that the Church feared the rise of communism in the face of Nazi defeat to such a degree that it rendered the pope silent and largely speechless - the pope was known to oppose Zionism as well. I remember the congregation praying to save Russia almost constantly as a child growing up Catholic in the 1950's.

What the protestants church leaders were doing in those days is anybody's guess - it's interesting to note the powerful Christian evangelical alliance with conservative political forces in Israel these days. I guess we'd have to get the bible out to see what that was all about.

That does seem to be the official handbook for governmental operations of late.

"Is this how you thank them? By admonishing them? Your manners are a bit off."

Indignant ignorance is illmannered as well.

Anonymous: "By the way, the Christians of the US were the kind people who let your people into their country to take refuge from Hitler.
Is this how you thank them? By admonishing them? Your manners are a bit off."

If I made statements like this, I would post them anonymously too!

This is 1,000% FALSE!

It is so disheartening as an American to have to share the country with such idiots who REFUSE to open a book! With all of the opportunities we have in this nation, to remain so stupid is a choice. I might also add, a lot more work than learning something once in a while.

DISGUSTING!

Anonymous:
"By the way, the Christians of the US were the kind people who let your people into their country to take refuge from Hitler."

I think you need to find a history book. Read about the SS St. Louis. How many of those 931 Jewish passengers were allowed to land in the US? None, they couldn't get visas on short notice. Cuba accepted those who could post $500 bond and the rest went to the UK (228), France (224), The Netherlands (181), and Belgium (214). the 22 Jews who were allowed to land by the government of Cuba would wait there until they could obtain a visa to enter the US. (A State Department telegram sent to a passenger stated that the passengers must "await their turns on the waiting list and then qualify for and obtain immigration visas before they may be admissible into the United States.") Of the rest, 3/4 later found themselves in German-occupied territory and

Growing up in the 50's and 60's, I didn't see a lot of Christian love for Jews. In the 70's I heard a Roman Catholic priest refer to Jews as "the Christ-killers."

In the USA of the mid 20th Century, we would not have allowed Jesus Christ into the US without making him wait years for a visa or accepted him. He was, after all, Jewish.

Mike

Fast Facts about Christmas

The etymology of Christmas derives from the Greek, “Christos” which means anointed, and the Olde-English, "mass" (massae), which means festival. Christmas is the festival celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ.

Early church history places the date of Christ’s birth at 6 January 5 BC. Calendar errors in the seventh century account for the 5 year discrepancy.

Bethlehem, the city of David, is small among the clans of Judah, but out of here the King was promised.

The Old Testament contains over 300 prophecies for Jesus Christ, naming the place, method, and reason for his birth.

“Behold a virgin will be with child” was written more than 700 years before Mary was born. She is called blessed among women, and her song of praise is one of the most beautiful ever written, beginning with, “My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.”

Because Christ was born of Mary and of God, He is 100% God, and 100% man; Daniel called Him both the Son of man, and the Son of God.

Jesus Christ has many names; Jesus derives from Jehovah-Yasha, which means, God Saves. Isaiah called Him Emmanuel, which means “God with us.” John of Patmos said His name is, “Righteous and True.” His is the name above every other name, the only name blessed forever.

Isaiah may have said it best with, For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

The Bible says Jesus did not come to condemn the world, but through Him the world might be saved. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already.

The 10 Commandments are a textual representation of Jesus Christ, he cannot lie(9), steal(8), covet(10), murder (or hate without cause)(6), commit adultery(or lust)(7); submission to parents is paramount(5), and especially that His primary concern(2) is His righteousness(1) and name(3), and in Him the Christian finds rest(4).

The 10 Commandments are also the standard of judgment for the human race. Have you ever told a lie? Stolen anything? Coveted something that didn’t belong to you? Called someone an idiot? Lusted after someone that wasn’t your spouse? Always obeyed your parents? Kept God first in your heart? Used the name of God only with respect? Given God one day out of your week?

Hark the Herald Angel’s Sing was written by Charles Wesley, it captures the reason for the season in, “Peace on earth, and mercy mild, God and sinners reconciled." Our transgression had not only separated us from God, but made us an enemy of God, and nothing we could do would redeem us to God.

Christmas is only celebrated because of what happened on Easter. On Easter, Jesus was sentenced to death for claiming to be God, a very serious offense. In this charge, He was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities.

Jesus Christ never committed a single sin, but He became sin for us, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Jesus was born of the Spirit, while we are born of the flesh. He was adamant that lest ye be born of the Spirit, you cannot see the kingdom of God. The is also known as being born-again, or being baptized in the Holy Spirit; this is separate from being baptized in water and can only be accomplished by a supernatural work of God.

The first words Jesus proclaimed to the world were, “Repent and believe the Gospel.” This means to turn from sin, turn towards God, ask for forgiveness, and believe (trust) that Jesus Christ is who He says He is, and that His payment on the cross for your sins is sufficient.

When Christ was born, the herald angel said, “Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.”

In the words of Go Fish, the beginning and the middle are both wonderful and great, but it’s the ending that can save you, and that’s why we celebrate.

Merry Christmas, On-Faith!

Religion, unfortunately, is an expression of paranoid fear of insecurity and unability to face the reality. You cannot wait from religion logic an open minded strong and secure feelings of self security; but agressive attitudes against everything which could weaken these religious artificial feelings of mental security.
Freud remains (unfortunately?) right about religious feelings,the Conscious Cortex tries desperately to validate.
No one can realize a common acceptance of feelings of which the common character is "absurd but true"!
You cannot be a relativist in faith, you can just try to protect yourself against others (and even also yourself?) by telling an oecumenic sense of acceptance... but be ready to observ that the most part of religious believers remain paranoids who will never be able to suffer that mental effort.
It is absolutely vain, and the actual US failure in that matter, after more than two centuries of efforts, shows us clearly that Freud was really conscious and clear and right.
I don't believe the Human Being, majoritically psychotic or border line, and not neurotic (20% maximum), able to reach that level of conscience to get tolerant.
When you are in a minority, you feel more sympathy for tolerance but in deep feelings (I don't speak about THINKING) you never agree really with what you are telling rationnally.
It is why Oecumenism remains totally uneffiecient...
And after oecumenic efforts during 65 years in modern world, we observ a total breakdown in the most advanced country of the same world....
Happy new year, Hanoukka, etc...but don't try to make me believe in all these wonderfull and lovely superstitions...
I don't need that stuff and remain with the awfull reality I cannot avoid...but try to enjoy the best of it with my fellows humans...

VOTE: ((( Peace Love Rockn Roll nRap Mitt_ROMNEY for Prez 08 YEA!. Happy Every Day ))))))))))

Note: "i" am not a Mormon. but a Cyber Volunteer only!

Erm... no, I'm a scientist. And nooo, I'm not evangelical. I am neopagan, though, well done on being able to read.

To be honest, I don't really understand your post (because it's demented gibberish) but I'll assume that if this site had any moderators they'd frown a bit at "All pagans are FAGS, you're a dumb pagan" etc.

If you think superstition is 'stupid', should you really be wasting your time on a multi-faith forum? Go and do something constructive. Meet girls or something.

JJ,

Put down the lighter and step slowly away from the crack pipe.

ALL 'NEO-PAGAN(s) are FAGS! Thery think they now have a 'New Religion', Wow! SuperstupidStitious indeed!

Steve B. UK. you is a Celtic or Anglo SAXON dumb Pagan! ya Ya.

Charismatic [Evangelical 'sub-type' via such lost potentially good SuperStupid Stitious Folks] , from the ORAL Roberts 'MASS MURDER/Suicide' campus site!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

?????????????????????????

Charasmatic folk believe in BIBLE (anty version) in CORINTHIANS (1) @ 12:passim through 14:passim!

Sorry, did you just say Protestantism was Greco-Roman?
I'll have whatever he's having.

Heh. Sorry, Anonymous, I thought you were serious for a minute.

>>"PAGANism" is not a Religion

No, it's a term used to describe several very old religions and a few current ethnic ones around the world.
'Neopaganism' on the other hand is a large group of religions such as Druidry and Wicca, which while quite young, definitely qualify as religions.

It's not the same as saying "non-christian" anymore. And "Heathen" is generally taken with pride by the Asatru.

"PAGANism" is not a Religion.." said by our Prez, Mr. G.W. BUSH, from the Executive Branch. But on the Other Hand,

The Local Fed Court(s) only see Wiccaan(s) in 'Sincerity' form and thus must be 'nice' in respect of the Pagan(s) trying to put "the People' to a 'religious Test' of the Provoking kind!

Amrica & this 'Holy Cosmic Space-Ship, of which Momma Poppa NEBULAE begott Us & U.S. et al, and so [today!, aka APOCALYPSE now, ya ya.] needs less RELIGION , un Sweet Sweet U.S. of A., and thus more APOCALYPTARIAN HUMATES that 'must-replace:

ALL, EVERY & ANY "Pre-Apocalyptic Ancient Religions & of their Man made old folk Lores & man made [zero Fiat-Lux made] EPOCHS!

ABOLISH, All Forighn 'Stae Sponsored Religions in Sweet Sweet U.S. of A.!

EMBARGO, ALL Greek & Roman "Ancient State-Religions" [i.eg., PAGANism, Catholicsm, Protestantism, Pentecostism, CHARISMATICS? etc..!]

WE "the People" need LESS foriegn Religion in AMERIC, never More!

WHEEREFORE: For same reason The U.S. Gov can restrict & minimized the Holyt Cosmic American Cosnstitutional right to file for a "HUMATE WRONGS against a HUMATE RIGHT via the 'HABIUS CORPUS"

Then the U.S.A. Government 'shall restrict & lessen respect for Imported & Forign "NOT MADE IN AMERICA , as RELIGION (system(s)!

Kick or Abolish-out all foerign Religions on Space Ship & start in Sweet Sweet America 1st!

CATHOLICS 1st, since they are the richest of them All on Earth, & the biggest MURDERERS of Earth!

HISTORY isd O.U.R. JURY! Ya Ya! Do not be in denial!

>>Anonymous: "Pagans are weak!"

Ahahaha. Leaving aside that your comment is so moronic as to not even need an answer, I'll just suggest you find some Asatru and voice that opinion to them. Or do some actual research. Or meet more than one actual pagan. (What I suspect you mean is, compared to some of the fundamentalist commenters on here, pagans won the prize last year for being *tolerant*. That's not the same as weak, believe it or not.)

As Athena said above, pagans generally have to deal with quite a lot of incorrect assumptions about them from the public. It was still the 90's when children were taken into care on no evidence even in the (MUCH more tolerant) UK. The situation is changing as ignorance drops (and the religion grows at a huge rate) but there are much better paths to take if you are weak. Some are publicly acceptable and will helpfully tell you what to think.

Part of what impressed me about the Rabbi's post was that he's clearly in favour of people thinking and debating for themselves, and I think this is a very, very good thing in any religion.

If you really want to just throw insults around, Anonymous, come onto Starhawk's thread. We're used to having to deal with ignorant bigots in the comments on there, and we can let this thread be constructive instead.

Jeff P: what you illustrate is the fallacy of identifying the enemy that so many posters make (and which you are correcting). It's the fringe secularists who won't be happy till crosses can't be seen from public property, let alone on public property, that give O'Reilly and other insecure types the excuse to declare themselves righteous combatants in a culture war despite the scene you correctly describe, which would not give an alien arriving today any indication that Jesus is under any threat whatever. Our panelists would all do well to make clear whether they are talking about the most radical of the secularists (who have their history and constitutional analysis almost as wrong as the fundamentalists do) or the the moderates who are reacting to the excesses of the fundies. just for sanity sake.

Rabbi Kula expresses:

"Then secular and liberal fundamentalists would have to deal with their own reflexive dismissal of religious faith and passion as some primitive vestige of a bygone era. Then secular fundamentalists would have to confront and challenge their own “faith” that reality can be defined exclusively and exhaustively in material terms. They might have to question their certainty that all religious wisdom and practice is superstition and that all mystical testimony of transpersonal levels of consciousness in which people experience their interdependence with all life and widen their empathy and compassion for all life is nonsense. For there is something about the unrelenting fierceness of the secular and liberal concern about and critique of allowing some religious symbols into the public square that hints at an insecurity about their own position."

Wow, I for one think this is massively misrepresentative of non-believers, at very "fundamental levels." Words like "faith," "certainty," "unrelenting fierceness," very much describe the organized religious realm, but I hardly see that reflected in secular humanism, atheism, freethinkers, or however one wants to categorize non-belief.

Those virtues of appreciating how one might celebrate "empathy and compassion for all life..." seem to me to come directly from a textbook on humanism or a-theism.

To suggest that any a-theist advocates absolute "certainty" that all questions in life can be completely answered exhaustively under the lens of a microscope is utterly wrong. I'd like references to prominent atheists who suggest such things.

Religious practice and "wisdom" is not all superstition, it's most prominently culturally influenced. What non-believer doesn't understand that? Again, please give some references. Additionally, who among the most publicly prominent atheists have implied "religious faith and passion as some primitive vestige of a bygone era"? Which of them suggests anything is bygone? Or even a "primitive vestige?" On the contrary, I'd suggest that the recent writings of these "new atheists" suggest that the power of religion is alive and well, thank you, and that we as a people/public/nation should think very seriously about the consequences of religious belief.

"...mystical testimony of transpersonal levels of consciousness in which people experience their interdependence with all life" could describe a very real spiritual experience to an individual, but it might also describe an LSD trip, or most recently, share characteristics that have been reproduced within the last year (making major headline news) by people who have "out of body" experiences. It doesn't take a "fundamentalist secularist" to see that.

Finally the suggestion that "fundamentalist" secularists somehow abhor any public expression of the faithful is ludicrous. You're fanning the flames of another dialogue: "war on religion." Last I looked, (living in Texas) there's at least one Christmas tree in the vast majority of homes, several decorated outside the homes with manger scenes, several "Jesus is the reason for the season" posters lit up through the night, the town square posted with Christmas decorations, the public park similarly decorated, state-mandated "under God" phrases in the Texas pledge, prayers before our public high-school events, a giant 10-Commandments stone on our State Capital grounds, Jesus-music piping through all of our malls 24 hours a day for the last few weeks, (radio and television as well,) acknowledgement of the Christian God at every sporting event I take my son to compete within, and a Jesus fish pasted next to an American flag on about every other SUV on the road.

"...fierceness of the secular and liberal concern about and critique of allowing some religious symbols into the public square.."???

But nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

Pagans? Weak? Yeah, right. You try being a member of a minority religion in a country that thinks that you're a second-class citizen if you don't believe in Yahweh. You try dealing with discrimination, hate mail, etc. because of your beliefs. You try having your worship services invaded by Christians who claim that you're Devil worshippers, or having your kids taken away because you're indoctrinating them. Or being found guilty of a murder that you didn't commit because you weren't a good, God-fearing Christian (like the West Memphis 3).

To quote Pa'u Zotoh Zhaan of "Farscape": "Soft, yes. Weak, no."

Canyon Shearer: "Let's look at Luke 8:40-56, the story of the raising Jarius' daughter from the dead. She represents pre-Messiah Israel."

Represents?! Look, JESUS either raised a girl from the dead, or he didn't. If he REALLY did, then she was a REAL girl...NOT a metaphor.

So typical of the "holier than thou" "fire and brimstone" Elmer Gantry-esque Christians.

The Bible can't be interpreted. It is literal. However, let's interpret it anyway, deny it and then accuse anyone who doesn't agree of actually interpreting it...and interpreting it wrong...because "the Bible is the LITERAL word of God...as I interpret it".

Such a hack!

Heresy? Did you just say heresy? What are you Canyon, the Spanish Inquisition? Are you sporting a tonsure? Heresy?

John,

I was with you right up until you said, "Jesus never proselytized." If you mean that in the strictest, original, and most literal sense of the word, then it's true, but nobody ever uses that word in that way. In the sense that Jesus attempted to convert believers to Him, which is the general use of the word, then Jesus never did anything BUT proselytize.

Let's look at Luke 8:40-56, the story of the raising Jarius' daughter from the dead. She represents pre-Messiah Israel. She was sick and in need of a Saviour before she died, but because the Saviour tarried, she died. The mourning began, "it is too late," they told Jesus. When Jesus arrived at her funeral, He raised her from the dead. Those that died before Jesus were atoned by His death on the cross, they were affected just as modern day Christians by His defeat of death.

Dispensationalism is a litmus test for heresy. The only reason ANYONE gets to Heaven is because the Messiah paid their way. God did promise that all Israel will be saved, but you forgot that not all decended from Israel belong to Israel. (Romans 9:6)

I agree completely with you that a Christian should be a follower of Christ; but you can't cherry-pick which portions of His ministry you will follow. You must take up your cross, die to yourself, preach repent or perish, go into the highways and hedges with the Gospel, and you must know that Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life. Not a way or even the best way.

Excellent prose, grand sentiments, Rabbi, but...

We call native American aborigines "Indians" because Christopher Columbus thought he was in India. Bogus identification.

You and countless others call certain persons Christian because they say they are Christians. Bogus identification.

A Christian by definition follows the example of Jesus Christ. Jesus never killed anyone, neither did he advocate killing anyone, nor did he sanction killing anyone. He laid down his life rather than kill and commanded his disciples to follow his example. And so they do.

All the historical hideous and barbaric acts performed by persons calling themselves Christians prove that they are not Christians: wars, crusades, torture, anti-semitism, intolerance, persecution, hatred, etc. ad infinitum.

It is simply inconceivable that Jesus, a Jew, condoned anti-semitism. All the first Christians were Jews who accepted Jesus as the Messiah. Speaking of the few who were complicit in his death, Jesus said, "Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do." If Jesus Christ himself forgave them, who calling himself or herself Christian can deny them forgiveness?

Jesus never went among the Gentiles. "I am not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Jesus never proselytized.

Jews, even Jews who do not accept Jesus as the Messiah, are under a totally different dispensation than are Gentiles. "Because He could swear by none greater, God swore by Himself, saying he would save all Israel." God's promise to Abraham can never fail. God called Himself by the names of three Jews: "I am the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob."

Paul, a Pharisee of the strictest sect, sternly warned Gentiles. He likened Judaism to an olive tree (imagine a great, centuries old majestic olive tree whose roots run deep and the sap of life flows through the bole and out stout branches), into which Gentiles as branches were grafted in. If perchance some of the natural branches were plucked out (Korah, for example), how much easier it would be to pluck out the unnatural branches. Of all the seventeen Apostles listed in the New Testament, only one, Paul, a Jew, was sent as an Apostle to the Gentiles.

Jews came before Gentile Christians, and Jews are first before Gentile Christians. In the vision of heaven in The Revelation of Jesus Christ, the twelve patriarchs of the tribes of Israel and twelve Apostles (all Jews) sit immediately round about the throne of God. No Gentiles are so highly honored.

In a spiritual sense, anyone who puts out his hand to harm a Jew puts a knife to his own throat.

Christians understand this perfectly well. Pseudo-Christians don't get it and never will. Don't confuse the two.

A fine piece of writing, Rabbi. One is issue I take is that the "War on Christmas" is in fact very real. It is however misnamed. The right wing radicals love the tactic of calling something it's opposite.

You are probably aware that a man was beaten for answering "Merry Christmas" with “Happy Hanukkah” Shades of your father's Poland, no?

Shockingly, there is an article here on On Faith written by a Dr. Elliott who trivializes this event and characterizes it as a killjoy party-pooper who got what he deserves for not playing along. As he see it, to not be a Christian in America is in fact to be at war with the culture that they are righteously defending.

I personally find it frightening, but I guess that’s the point.

" Anonymous:

Pagans are weak!"

In the words of Jean-Luc Picard, 'You may test that theory at your convenience.'

We are peaceful people, but don't mistake that for weakness.

You want someone weak to come try beating on, come see me. I'll handicap you a chronic illness.

But, oh, what peace you anonymous Christians bring, with your champion of the 'meek.'

As for this:

"Hey Rabbi Irwin Kula. What if some citizens of the US have a religion that promotes genocide of Jews?"

I'm afraid you're gonna have to ask Mel Gibson about that.

Hey Rabbi Irwin Kula.

What if the religion of the citizen of the US incites and encourages genocide of Jews?

Have you investigated what is happening to Jews in France, Belgium and UK?

Hey Rabbi Irwin Kula. What if some citizens of the US have a religion that promotes genocide of Jews?

Take a look at what is happening to Jews in France and the Belgium and UK due to Islamic immigration.

Have you investigated it yet?

By the way, the Christians of the US were the kind people who let your people into their country to take refuge from Hitler.
Is this how you thank them? By admonishing them? Your manners are a bit off.

Rabbi Irwin Kula,

I appreciate all your essays in On Faith.

Happy Hanukah.

Peace be with you.

Thank you and best regards

"J"

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Thomas Baum and Canyon Shearer,

Merry Christmas to you both.

Thank you and best regards

"J"

Pagans are weak!

TO CANYON SHEARER:

You wrote, "But it is not God's will that any should perish, but that all should be redeemed."

Have you ever thought that that statement just might be true.

In the prayer that Jesus taught the apostles when they asked Him to teach them to pray, "They Will be done on earth as it is in Heaven", ever heard of it?

Have you ever thought of praying for God's Will rather than your own.

God has a Plan, "His Plan" and His Plan will come to Fruition.

Just like it says in the bible, God loved us so much that He became One of Us, He became Humanity's Brother.

Jesus condemned NO ONE.

Proclaiming the Gospel is proclaiming the "Good News" not the good enought news.

Take care, see you and the rest of humanity in the Kingdom and remember be ready, night is coming when no man can work but not to worry the dawning of the seventh day will also arrive and as it says, "On the seventh day, God blest, rested and made holy".

We will all be judged and we do not earn heaven but if anyone goes to hell they will find out that they built it themselves.

As it says Jesus took all the sins of mankind upon Himself and He went to hell in our place, that is how He won the keys and He will use them in due time.

One day you will know something about christianity.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Truly an excellent piece, Rabbi. Allow me to echo the sentiment.

It's true, Cratay, that this 'War on Christmas' mirage is the same as so many other fantasies and lies of people who wish to justify intolerance and extremism against minorities on the basis that those minorities are 'Attacking you! "Defend!" '

Lest we forget.

In all these ways where I happen to personally be at risk, I've always seen underlying these rhetorical "wars" as:

"Set yourself up with victim status and you can be a remorseless aggressor under the guise of protecting your rights, or way of life."

Christians aren't the ones getting attacked for giving the 'wrong' holiday greetings.

Yes, there's a bit of fear, now. But it doesn't have to be this way.

How about that eclation guy jozevz?

Thanks so much to Rabbi Kula for his essay.

Rabbi Kula,

Thank you for such an insightful and thoughtful essay. I can only hope that more people reach the level of wisdom you display, and then perhaps we can experience the Light and Love and Life that you aptly ascribe to the season.

That's a refreshingly humane, intelligent and true post. Thanks very much for injecting some sanity into the usual seasonal tensions. I think your description of the fundamentalists driving the bogus "War on Christmas" (and their belief that America was ever a 'Christian Country') is absolutely accurate.

This kind of tolerance and inclusivity from posters is a great advertisement for their religion, and much more effective than the "We're right! You're wrong!" we see from some others on here.

Canyon Shearer: Thanks for that. I had no idea we're all sinners who need to repent, I'd never heard that one before.
Sometime, when I actually give a monkey's, we should sit down and talk about how the Romans came up with the date for Jesus's birth (5BC Jan 6th is a good one, B+). It'll be comedy, I promise.

Seems to me like the war on christmas can draw a shameful parallel with the disgusting war on the white race, or war on christians, that the racists of years past used to justify their aggression against minorities. Set yourself up with victim status and you can be a remorseless aggressor under the guise of protecting your rights, or way of life. As a matter of fact, doesn't the same diatribe also abound in the war on marriage? All us poor married heterosexuals are being attacked by those who wish to devalue the institution of marriage. Therefore we must not tolerate such aggression against our holy institution. How else will we protect the sanctitiy of getting married at a drive thru window in Vegas.

Of all people, Canyon Shearer posts: "The hatred and fear it conveys is kinda scary..."

followed by the inevitable ignorant comments: "Nobody will go to Hell for celebrating the 150 year old Hannukah or the two day old Kwanza, or any other johnny-come-lately winter celebrations..."

If people would stop giving him dollars when he panhandles, he would not be able to stay in the coffee house long enough to write the typical insenitive, hateful and irrational crap he's always posting here.

Such an @$$ole!

Lepid: I have to agree. The Rabbi has contributed the most reasonable and balanced piece on the subject so far. As long as the 5 ton commandments are kept out of our courthouses, I say bring on the creches and dradles in the parks. And a pox on O'Reilly for dividing Americans by suggesting that Happy Holidays is some sinister plot against America rather than at a minimum a reference to Christmas and New Years, if not Thanksgiving too.

Canyon, how in the world did you see hate and fear in the Rabbi's essay? I saw a desire for an appreciation of differences rather than a constant struggle for oneupsmanship.

This was actually a pretty interesting article. Most On-Faith articles get a glance-over, but yours had some depth, and passion. The hatred and fear it conveys is kinda scary, but I enjoy it when someone says what they believe.

I picked up the influence of the "I'm ok, you're ok" americanistic gospel in your post, which is among the top two of my least favorite gospels. I'm not ok, you're not ok. That's the truth, and the reason why Christmas is so important.

Nobody will go to Hell for celebrating the 150 year old Hannukah or the two day old Kwanza, or any other johnny-come-lately winter celebrations, or even for not celebrating Christmas. What you celebrate this winter has no bearing on your standing with God.

The reason for that is because we have all made ourselves enemies of God through transgression. Being an enemy with the Just Judge of all the Universe is not a good place to be. I'm not ok, you're not ok, the cup of His indignation waits to be poured out on us.

God has told us that lying lips are an abomination, that a single lie has put us in His disfavor, because He is perfectly Holy and cannot tolerate a single sin.

As for someone who steals, then that thief shall die. Not an immediate death of the body, but eventually, and following will come the death of the soul. We fear those that can kill the body, but who we really should be afraid of is our enemy, God Almighty, who can kill the soul as well.

We watch our television shows that always put the hero or heroine on the side of good, fighting against the evils of the world, and we can empathize with the good guy. But in reality, we are the bad guy, raining sin and death down on the world with our lifestyles of sin. Claiming to be wise, we became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. Therefore God gave us up in the lusts of our hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of our bodies among ourselves, because we exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator. Abraham Lincoln said, "Sir, my concern is not whether God is on our side; my greatest concern is to be on God's side, for God is always right."

The wages of sin is death, no blasphemer, no adulterer, no thief has any inheritance in the kingdom of God nor of Christ. Murderers, idolaters, and all liars will have their place in the lake of fire.

But it is not God's will that any should perish, but that all should be redeemed. Two-thousand years ago, January 6th, 5 BC, a child was born of a virgin and they called Him Emmanuel, which being interpreted means, "God with us." Jesus Christ was born of the Spirit, He didn't inherit a sin nature and lived His entire life without committing a single sin. He was the only person who ever lived who deserved Heaven, the only person who knew no sin, but He willingly became sin for us and was hung on the cross outside of Jerusalem in our stead. The wrath of God was poured out on Him in so heinous a way that Isaiah tells us that Jesus could barely be recognized. Any other man would have died from the beating that Christ endured, but only Christ had the power to lay down His life and He prolonged the punishment in order to pay for every last sin you could ever commit. He died on the cross forsaken by God and man, and was buried in a tomb for no other reason than to appease Jewish law.

But death could not Hold the God of the Universe, who not only had the power to lay down His life, but also the power to raise Himself up. On the third day, Christ defeated death and walked out of the tomb.

In Christ's atoning death, you can be absolved of your sins, you can be forgiven by God, not because you are a good person, but because your fine is already paid.

In order to receive this gift purchased at such a price, God demands that you repent of your sins, forsake your unrighteous lifestyle and follow Christ, and trust in Jesus with all your heart, mind, body, and strength, and He will save you.

The Bible tells us that we are dead in our transgressions, but because Christ defeated death, we can be born-again, this time of the imperishable Spirit, and our soul will never die.

Repent and Trust, and you'll realize the true implications of Christmas, that while I wasn't ok, and you weren't ok, Christ died for us while we were yet sinning, and covered our shame with His righteousness and washed away our iniquity with His blood. When God looks at us, where He once saw only sin and held only malice, He can now see in us the perfection of His Son, and love us as children.

This is one of the more original and thoughtful comments I have read about the place of public expressions of religion, particularly Christmas. It should be required reading for all the Christmas/Securlar warriors out there, something to occupy their minds while they "go to the mattresses."

All blessings for all seasons to you, Rabbi.