Rabbi Irwin Kula is the President of CLAL-The National Jewish Center for Learning and Leadership, a leadership training institute, think tank and resource center in New York. The “On Faith” panelist has served as rabbi of congregations in St. Louis, New York City and Jerusalem. He is author of “Yearnings: Embracing the Sacred Messiness of Life” (Hyperion, Sept. 2006) winner of a “Books for a Better Life Award,” and selected by Spirituality & Health magazine as one the “10 Best Spiritual Book of 2006.” He is a regular guest on NBC-TV’s “The Today Show,” and co-host of the popular weekly radio show, Hirschfield and Kula, airing on KXL in Portland, Ore. In 2007 he was identified as one of the “Top 50 Rabbis in America,” by Newsweek. He is co-founder of the Aitz Hayim Center for Jewish Living in Chicago. He received his B.A. in Philosophy from Columbia Univ., his B.H.L. from the Jewish Theological Seminary of America (JTSA) in NY, and his M.A. in Rabbinics and Rabbinic Ordination from JTSA. He has served as rabbi of congregations in St. Louis, MO; Queens, NY; and Jerusalem, Israel.
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Irwin Kula
Rabbi, author, commentator
Rabbi Irwin Kula is the President of CLAL-The National Jewish Center for Learning and Leadership in New York. He has served congregations in St. Louis, New York and Jerusalem.
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Did you knoweth. that in awareness of O.U.R. Holy Cosmic Photon Essence's , in a Photon-mist or in a BIO-FINITE form (Naked), that We Eclati-On(s) , never OFF(s), must 'try' to be nice nice very unselfish nice, while on this miraculous Planety of Many Today???? Ya Ya! AND;
Did you knoweth, that when We Eclati-On(s) [note: ECLAT via SOUND =Flash 1st, BigBang=2nd, & then US 3rd!???] experience the POOF-TIME a Gonna Moment that O.U.R. BIO-FINITE Death is never our TRANSFINITE (REALITY in holy cosmic motion) DEATH???????? AND
Did ye knoweth that upon Bio-Finite death (also a M"i"racle) always takes each HEURISTICa/o (a MAVORITE/male & a SPORADE/female via each and their own so called Spirit/Soul stuff etc..) to the Holy NON-GRAVITY Place of the 5th Dimention of 9 dimention(s) at the DUE-TO-BE as each 'Passeth' into the entropy & inbetween the PHOTON frequency Spectrum of O.U.R. immortal Frequency by way of the Holy PLASMATRICULATION????!!! ????! Ya Ya!
Note: The (9) Dimention(s) are seperate Realms!
The 1st, 2nd, 3rd & 4th realm is NOW, YOU, US in "IT" via ITSELF that naturally is just Following IT's own LAW(s) of IT's NATURE & thus is doing the ORDERING of IT's Things & Stuff via US-ALL, together forever with SOURCE-ONE the Faearless & Thus Zro Jealous Holy NO-MAN LORD/ECLAT + "i" + LIFE (for a TIME)!??? Ya Ya. AND that,
The 5th Dimention is O.U.R. "HOME-BASE" so to spaketh! Yet the 6th , 7th , 8th & 9th Dimention belongs exclusively to the Holy no-Man CREATOR of the Holy Cosmic 'F*I*A*T-L*U*X', aka ECLAT!????
NOTE: These folk has been deleating alot of me links lately, especially the link that Senator Chucks Shamer has with the Getty turned Russian LUK-oil company that has him in their pocket & now Luk oil's President is today's Russia's President to be! Ya Ya
Important: Wherever you read "he" or 'him' [for Mr. Yashua, aka G-D] please 'plug-in' the word "IT" or 'ITSELF' thanks!
G-d is neither a 'HE" nor a 'She' JUSTLY say G-d is an IT or being ITSELF, in and of Us ALL!
Note: "IT" was the "MELCHIZEDEK" [Superior of ABRAHAM, VYASA & GAUTAMA et al] that PROPHETa , Mrs. Helen Schucman mistaken!
Same like when Brethren(s) Mr. Joseph SMITH Jr. [pbuh] had mistakingly labeled "MORONi" for the Holy 'MELCHIZEDEK'![ the Superior of MUHAMMAD & JESUS & ABRAHAM & MOSES et al too!]! Ya Ya! AND;
What this REVELATION (opposite of SECRETS) tell-US in sweet sweet U.A. of A., that it was the "MELCHIZEDEK" Peace Blessing rightly given to the "SHILOH" The Photon Bringer of the APOCALYPSE, not just at MT. CUMORAH via Smith, nor via SCHUCMAN at COLUMBIA HILL , N.Y. CITY, that it was on MT. TRANSFINITY, that "IT" came or 'ITSELF' appeared to them!
Nelson: congrats on the sensible post. I have posted before on the fact that simple logic should lead us to be rather more humble on the claim that we posess the one true faith and that all others are praying to false gods. the logic being that we should recall that we only have the faith we have, or had, because our parents did, and their parents before them. how plausible is it that we can know that our birth accident is the one that gave us the right path?
Rabbi Kula, in this age of religious extremism and the trivialization of the foundational beliefs of many of the worlds greatest religions, it is refreshing to hear a voice of reason from any quarter.
My foundational faith is Roman Catholic, but I have come to believe that there are many paths to G-d and that each individual has within him or her self a piece of the puzzle, that is G-d.
The great question of our time is in my opinion, this, Can we stand for much longer the irrational and quixotic rantings of a few, misguided religionists, who make up those, who would force upon us their world-view and beliefs?
For much too long now, the religious zealots of most faiths have hijacked the once famous and needed debate on the way we, as people of faith and reason co-exist in an ever changing society.
I, for one, have debated within myself, the need for proclaiming one or another faith as "the one," and have struggled with the historical and personal significance of any faith as a means of personal identification. Why, should any one, use religion as a means of saying, "this is who I am?"
We have become a polarized and balkanized society with regards to religion and within those faiths, where we stand on certain questions about this or that part of our faith.
Can civilization withstand much longer the separation of ourselves into little cubbyholes of faith? It, cannot happen! Surely the people of reason and moderation can once again, remove from the discourse of politics and hatred the much needed and oftentimes absolutely necessary interaction between women and men of faith.
My hope is that soon, the people who have studied and reasoned within themselves, will once again take up the mantle of public discourse and show the world that as citizens of a larger society, we can make the world a better place for all, and work with each other without rancor and the feeling of superiority, about this or that faith.
Hear ye Hear Ye, The KABBA will be destroyed in 72 Hours, unless Al Quada Surrenders! no Compromise!
Surren Mre. Bin Laden Et al, Dead or alive!!!!!!
We, not American's , but ECLATi-ON(s) Will annhilliate your KABBA & your AL AQSA mosque in JERUSALEM !
Pleas, you have 72 Hours from this post , or else!!!!
Islam will be NO MORE! Good bye KABBA! Good bye AL AQSA!
Remember, surrender Mr. Osama Bin Laden , et al, or else! The Destruction of the Kabba, like World trade Center's will be the fault of the Bin Ladin FAMILY!
We will Execute All your 73 Children Mr. Osama, et al!
We have much in common regarding the role of consciousness in all aspects of life. Your approach sounds quite Buddhistic, and that philosophy figures heavily in my conception of Reality.
I see consciousness as independently existing and timeless in nature as well - and with several levels stepping down from Univeral consciousness to individual consciousness as it resides in all sentient creatures. As you say, quantum physicists recognize the essential role of the observer (effect) as being the necessary catalyst that instantly converts the abstract probable world of possibilities (wave function) into our concrete material (particle-based) world.
Certainly this collapse of the wave function is a primary role of consciousness and/or byproduct of measuring processes, procedures, and devices.
If physicists took their thinking to a logical end (as some do) you'd have to accept that the entire manifest universe is forever 'entangled' and continuously interactive (within an infinite web of non-local relationships). With that thought, I just flashed back to the Carlos Casteneda series, where the shaman Don Genero describes reality in just this way (knowing how to travel the web and working with vibrations is part of the shaman's art),
And if holographic theory is correct in this paradigm, then due to the nature of holograms the entire universe could well exist in each particle or atom (much like fractals - computer generated images that contain the whole in each tiny part).
You've clearly done a lot of thinking to tie it all together. Lately I'm reading a series of books by Fred Alan Wolfe, a physicist with a huge interest in alternate realities and consciousness research. Good stuff.
I'm with you on tolerance and divesting yourself of all phobias - if we're forever entangled then I guess we're all equally our brother's keeper - whether we like it or not.
Don't worry though, I can hold my own with Jacob. Actually, he is quite literate and I understand a little about Eclat. In a queer way Jacob and I hold the same believe, except that I have nothing against other religions or homosexuals. I don't quite understand that aspect of him.
A long time ago, he gave me the moniker "Warm Heart" because I chose not to malign him, but to understand. His earlier postings were not nearly as hostile as he has become of late. Rather the message was one of love and inclusiveness. I don't understand what is wrong with him lately.
A long time ago (at least long in terms of blog longevity), another poster by the name of Pamela captured the essence of my "religion". She spelled in out in a manner I never could. If you are interested, please read below.
"PAMELA :
I've read the few posts with references to the conscience with great interest for that is my spiritual focus.
Although I regard myself a believer, I most often side with the views of atheists and agnostics. I think that believers of popular religions think that I'm an atheist trying to trick or confuse them by calling myself a believer and then bombarding them with a scientific viewpoint. I'm really not. I was an agnostic until I formed a god-theory that incorporates scientific method.
I know, I know. It doesn't matter if you are a believer of popular religion or an atheist, I know you're saying to yourself, 'Ridiculous!'. Believers say it because I call myself a believer, but in their eyes I'm a wolf in sheep's clothing and atheists say it because in their viewpoint science and religion is like oil and water, you can't mix the two due to the faith factor.
Yes, religion requires faith by definition. My belief has faith in the same way that Quantum Mechanics has faith, only the term used is 'Probability'. It is a science that does not allow certainty. You could say it is a faith-based science. ;)
There is a major difference between my God and those of other religions. My God is the collective conscience and although it is all-knowing via the contribution of all singular consciences, it is powerless in the physical world because it does not reside within physical dimensions and therefore it is something that we cannot discern with our five senses.
Okay, you might consider that statement to be a deal-breaker and your about ready to write me off as a kook, but before you go please let me say this - time resides in a non-physical dimension as well. We cannot discern it with any of our five senses either, but I haven’t found anyone willing to say they don’t believe in time. The three physical dimensions move through time (aka spacetime). They work in perfect concert and are meaningless without one another.
The concept of a dimension that houses the conscience, or Observer as I like to call it, is not a far stretch from the concept of a time dimension - especially if you are already familiar with the concept of time as a dimension.
To illustrate the concept, I envision all of the conscious beings that I know to exist and they are all right here on this planet - humans, dogs, insects, birds, whales, etc. For the sake of argument, let us say that Earth is the only place in all of creation that has such rare and wondrous creatures. Then one day, by whatever unfortunate event - BOOM! No more Earth.
All that is left is physical matter moving through time, but what are they worth without an observer? They are instantly meaningless. Just like matter is meaningless without time and time is meaningless without matter, both become meaningless if there is nothing – or no one – to observe them.
In my belief, the dimension of conscience, or rather the conscious dimension, is a cohesive member of this awesome realm and without it, there can be no concept of awesome, no concept of realm. No concepts at all.
As I stated in an earlier post, M Theory suggests as many as 11 dimensions. My belief is that the conscious dimension is one of them. Since only four dimensions are currently known, that still leaves room for further discovery.
Although my God in all-knowing, it is in no way powerful. Power is a physical concept and resides in the physical dimension. My God has no physical form and therefore no power over physical things. It can only observe via consciousness. All conscious beings (of which I'm aware) are limited in this way. For instance, we cannot move objects by thought. If we want to move something, we must move it by physical means within the physical dimensions. When we want to move something and then physically move it, we are making a ‘conscious effort’ (the physical manifestation of thought) which demonstrates our inter-connectedness to the physical dimensions and the conscious dimension.
Most of us are aware that we are inter-dimensionally connected to, and experience, time and physical matter cohesively. It is a small step to accept that we also experience conscience. Or rather, without conscience we cannot experience anything or prove that experience itself exists. A physical body devoid of conscience is, for all practical purposes, dead.
How could it be proven that ANYTHING EXISTS if there were no observer? This may sound like a stupid question, but a true thinker will lose sleep over it.
The human species has a mind-body combination that allows us to observe, question and experience our environment and communicate unlike any other earth species. Our distinctly human ability to convey complex ideas and concepts to one another using language in both verbal and written form differentiates, and separates, us from our other earthly brethren.
In my opinion, that is why we, the human species, don’t consider other species to have souls (or a conscience, as I prefer to refer to it). I disagree with that notion. Most other species have a monumental comparative disadvantage to humans due to physical and language limitations. If you compare our closest relative, the chimp, you’ll find that their major remaining disadvantage is lack of complex language. It is not that the chimp doesn’t want to speak, it can not speak due to the physical location of its voice box. However, for years now researchers have been successfully teaching chimps sign language. These chimps regulary communicate emotions - love, fear, anger, lonliness, etc. - the basis of conscience. And now those chimps are teaching sign language to the next generation of chimps. Granted, chimps may never make great tax accountants but it doesn’t make them any less a conscious being than you or I or any other species. They, as all conscious beings, are observers that participate and contribute their unique perspective of creation and existence.
Much has been written here about good and evil. These are human concepts attributed to physical acts after the fact. I cannot think of a single thing that is good or evil that is non-physical. We can think evil thoughts, but are we evil if we never commit the physical act? Someone once told me that intentionally starving someone unnecessarily would qualify because no physical act needed to be carried out, i.e. not bringing food is an evil non-physical act. I disagree. The ‘evil’ physical act is starvation which you’ve allowed to continue. This can be turned into ‘good’ by the physical act of bringing food to alleviate starvation. Acts, whether good or evil, require a ‘conscious effort’, of which my God is incapable – but we certainly are.
To that point, in my rationale, we are responsible for good and evil via free will. The blood of every heinous unnatural act in our history rests on human hands. The glory for every good deed is ours as well. My God cannot forgive, forget, reward or punish for any physical act. That is our responsibility and our burden.
We all experience our conscience and we all share similar conscious experiences. Our five incredible senses allow our conscience to appreciate the external physical world and it allows us to think, dream and experience emotions.
For me, there is no need to prove the existence of conscience. The conscience exists because without it, you could prove nothing else.
Mr. Headbanger has gotten pretty nasty on some of these threads lately. Hostile thinly veiled & threatening language hiding behind quasi-religious gobbledigook needs to be much more closely monitored by the blog masters. You can see his nasty little 'prison-inspired' comment to me at the bottom of his post and carried over from another thread. Suddenly his command of English gets remarkably normal. This whacko is nothing if not manipulative and very, very angry.
JJ - you were no doubt Harry's prized pupil in the can and PS - you don't end up in a maximum security federal pen like the one in Marion for stealing groceries to take care of your child with a cleft pallet - especially doing a 50 year stretch. John Gotti and a few of the better known serial killers have been warehoused there.
PPS -
Your alleged career as an international smuggler is dubious at best, along with your redoubtable history as a student of religion. It's time to come to Jesus - I know you'll feel better when you do and Mitt will respect you for it!!
i agree whole heartedly that government and religion are and should be two distinct entities....as such each is free to deliver its different but in my mind essential to the fabric of civilization's role. government as i understand it has arisen as a means to suppy the skeltal framework and infrastructure 4 all who live and contribute to it. it is decided on in its charictar by the wishes of the prevailing streants of its constituants. over time certain things are identified by most as being essential and get done eventually somehow by someboy.. often by everybody.. the alternative is self sufficiancy or chaos each of these through the ages has proved worse than some form of central government. religion and spirituality is and individual somewhat solitary endeavor... no matter how manny people gather and call themselves by a name each cannot attain spiritual gifts and progress by simply being a part of and giving a little time or money. faith is not attained by birthright, is not something that can be readily described or shown in advance like a bridge or a highway can be expected to benifit all who travel them. .. to get worked up about sombody trying to legislate faith is absurd when you think about it in these terms eye think...they can order or decree anything but it simply will be prperly ignored. i could'nt help but notice you mentioned quite correctly i think the christians an the muslims... but my freind you had nothing to say about the massive lobbying by your religion for aid, for miltary weapons, and for moral justification when israel herself has done all of the things themselves in lebanon that they use to idedentify a terrorist nation or pople in others. they bombed civilian power plants and bridges in another country, they killed inoccent civillians even christians... there stratagiey seems to be to terrorize the terrorist thus making them in my mind morally flawed.yet your lobbiest want us to vetoe in the united nations to protect them from themselves... claiming somehow to be superior to others and demanding much of the usa's christians and moulims tax money to support a state that with out foreign aid would most likely turn into a mirage. please tell your brothers to make peace or start earning thier own keep. the way i read the bible the jews and my ancestors were jewish... were exiled for not obeying God... do you not realize God could exile you again if he choses. i do not claim to think or know what Gods plans are.... do you know my freind.... i think not... i will pray 4 you your religion and israel to take the chip of your sholder... put peace in your heart... the abused child has grown up to be a wife beater metaphorically. if you are the ones with nuclear weapons you just mightr be the bully instead of the victum
For those interested in the origins of JJ's metaphysics, please google Harry Theriault and the Church of the New Song for a full revelation.
Said Mr. Theriault as the 2nd Messiah created ECLAT ET AL while incarcerated at the federal pen in Marion, IL circa 1978 and thereupon requested special religious dispensation for favors and privilages - which were likely not forthcoming. His crime was not clear, but his artistry as a scammer is not doubted. Prision conversions are legion, but Messiahs continue to be rare behind bars.
Perhaps we have the esteemed creator of this prison religion here with us today, and scamming to the maximum as usual.
Perhaps someone should let Mr. Romney know that he is a very big part of this New Revelation.
Please send an emmisary from your world so the matter can be discussed by experts. For example, you can send the spirits of Joseph Smith, Jr. and Brigham Young along with their band of polygamist womanizers and we will petition the spirits of Black Elk, Geronimo, Crazy Horse, et al to determine who exactly has the corner on home-grown religion. LDS is quite an upstart by any historical standard - going back to 1830 or thereabouts.
Your nonsense is utterly obnoxious to one and all. Today's mormons prefer Church of the Latter Day Saints by the way, as 'mormon' is seen as a pejorative term associated with their early
polygamist philosophy - now defunct and seen as a grevious offense to the church.
Grow up and cease and desist with your delusional and insulting diatribes.
Why do people get so exercised about their religion that they are willing to offend and even threaten other people with their beliefs?
I think it's because the presence of prosperous non-believers in their midst seems to make them feel less secure in their own comforting belief that their charitable and pious actions will be rewarded in life.
They never stop to ask themselves whether their own beliefs are reasonable or helpful to themselves or anyone else.
Most people aren't always dashing around in public saying they love Jesus or have been "saved." Many who do are quite anxious to get their own beliefs verified by praying in public places in a preferably large crowd. That's the reason for the public displays, I think.
They don't know yet about Bible verses that say not to make a show of piety in public, but to go into your closet to pray in secret.
Dear Rabbi,
if you think this a congressional waste think of the money being wasted in sending from our taspayer´s tases to Israel for the destructions of its neighbors, especially Palestine,their children and women.
as a human race we must not be religious, because of the importante to our survival. Let´s think about a whole universe and not only our mother earth. your article is contravesial and all it brings is more hate just like in the israeli/palestinian conflict. Your article has been told for many decades to the americans, and because of it we, the americans are involved in the isrtaeli/palestinian war, Lebanon, Iraq, Afghanistan. Is it realy worth it to be religious, whether Christian, Jew, Islamic., or whatever?
The recent action of the Congress in passing the "Christmas/Christian Friendly Bill" is the worst gift under the tree! Is this some kind of joke? It only reveals the desperate struggle of the elected officals for survival not the need to shore up the foundations of Christian faith. They passed it out of fear but not out of their own faith. Such actions clearly lead us into the highway of a theocracy not a democracy. President Bush is hard enough to take without him also being called Your Holiness Bush! Bah! Humbug! on Congress.
Our roots are common according to absolutely everyone. The religious say we are all children of God with a single patriarch, Adam. The scientist says we all evolved from lower life forms with our present group happening in Africa, (so we are all African-X, not just black folks).
We don't need to go back that far to find common "religious/political" roots. There was never a time when people did not die. Our roots at that juncture of life are all common. In the beginning every group of people on earth said exactly the same thing about the dead - they are not dead but have gone on to a new world. I can give you a list of particular ways of saying that if you need it. For example, some native Americans called the next world "the happy hunting ground" implying that world is better than this one. Better world is common too.
Rather than lecture you, let me ask a question instead. Come up with a scenario, one is enough, to get from there, all dead go to the same place to people committing suicide to kill others. You'll need to go back a little farther than European colonists anywhere.
And, oh! I celebrate Christmas big time. Christmas is a national holiday and must therefore include all. For me it's Halloween witches, Thanksgiving turkey and Christmas trees. None of them are uniquely Christian. Well, maybe turkey.
Yes about the animists of Indonesia and then some. They are very good in natural remedy for ailments. Their knowledge is co-opted
as "traditional" medication.
I am starting to notice not only some Christians, but some atheists really giving Pagans an interesting time in On Faith threads. And nasty posts too from people in the land of the free and home of the brave on pagans and their rights. If they can do this to their own fellow Americans, any wonder why foreigners don't quite trust nor believe America's intention coming in to "rescue" and "free" them?
You : "Let me check. Yep, I'm human. Human roots say there is no hell - everyone goes to exactly the same place after this life no matter how they lived this one."
Excuse me? I had thought that one's roots means one's cultural and historical heritage, not just biological. Heaven and hell as our roots? That is more of religious beliefs that should unfettered your mind anyway.
You : "Jesus soothes those jangled nerves of the guilty standing before the bar. That's like putting a band aid on a fracture."
What soothes your jangled nerves?
You : "Seems you folks have run through a lot of supernatural being salesmen. Can I expect Islam to fade away like Hinduism and Buddhism? That's a start to say the least."
"You folks?" Some Hindu friends in India addressed me as "You people". The last I check, Hinduism and Buddhism is very much alive in Asia.
But you can expect and hope for anything you wish for.
You : "Speaking of the Philippines, aren't they under siege from radical Islamic groups? Peace on earth cannot come until we all get back to our roots and acknowledge the rights of all others."
The Southern Filipino Muslims have been fighting, first against Spaniard domination and control, and now against their own central government. It is a war that have been going on for over five hundred years. Think Northern Ireland.
You : "Life is the most fundamental of rights. How does a Muslim justify taking the life an innocent victim? Must expect the victim to go to hell or that Allah will protect him from the victim in the next world. Do I have that straight?"
No justification, no reason at all under Islam or any faith or secular law to take an innocent life. My Indonesian paternal grandfather died fighting against the Dutch colonisers' troops. They killed members of his family as an example to intimidate and force them to yield their lands for a Dutch coffee plantation.
A simple question for you - Why are the British, French and Dutch, who are so civlised in their own lands, such brutal colonisers overseas? Why do they want to colonise other lands and rule over other people?
You : "I'm happy to see that your group isn't insisting on the destruction of Israel like millions of others for any reason, religious or otherwise."
"Your group"? So, you are giving "our group" a gold medal or something for behaving as your civilised and rational western sensibilities hope for?:)
I'm a wee confused. You are a hard core atheist calling religion a superstition and God a delusion, but accepting Israel's rights to exist based on a historical-religious covenant with a God you don't believe in?
I should be happy to see Europe is happy there is Israel after the Shoah. And I should be happy Christian Zionists are happy there is an Israel for hastening the Armageddon. We'll have to ask the Palestinians why they are so very upset.
Just so you know if you don't already, practically all Muslim states accepts a two-state solution and Israel's right to exist. Even the majority of Palestinians. Only it be a just solution acceptable to both sides. Now if that is possible.
Remember always that Israelis and Palestinians are not cannon fodder in any manufactured "war of civilisations" or to bring on the Armageddon.
Because the Senate didn't pass a substantially similar resolution, H.Res. 847 has and couldn't have any legal force. It IS a blatant and shocking instance of Congressional endorsement of one religion, and if both Houses had passed it, it would have been an unconstitutional endorsement. A waste of time and a waste of what has seemed (over the past few years) to be dwindling collective brain power of the U. S. Congress.
What could have done to prevent this resolution from being unconstitutional? Ultimately, perhaps no editing could have saved it from a First Amendment violation. But removing the 4th, 6th, and 8th "Whereas" recitals and numbered paragraph (4) from the Resolution itself would have been a good start. The verbiage in those portions of the text was either an explicit endorsement of Christian religious dogma / mythology / tradition or a questionable exaggeration of the historical record about (a) "Western civilization," (b) the philosophical foundations of the American constitutional republic, and (c) the religious views of the Founding Fathers, most of whom would not pass the current 21st-century litmus test for being "Christian."
A very good sign of H.Res. 847's silliness and unconstitutionality is how Representative Mike Pence of Indiana -- a rock-ribbed Republican AND conservative Christian -- voted on the Resolution. He voted "present," meaning that he took no position for or against the Resolution. Even he knew and tacitly acknowledged that the Resolution was both unconstitutional and demeaning/degrading toward whatever it is that true Christians hold to be sacred and important.
Seriously, now that the Christians are all like snug in their beds, ....you strike out in all directions like Bibles really mean something but are still all backwards.
Now that it's just us mouses, ... what would you like?
My roots? Let's see. I think I'm a human being. Let me check. Yep, I'm human. Human roots say there is no hell - everyone goes to exactly the same place after this life no matter how they lived this one. Of course how one lives this life can be hellish right here and now - Scott Peterson for example. And when Scotty gets to that next world, (after all his appeals are exhausted and the "terminator" ignores his final pleas) Traci and Trevor will be there waiting for him. Bad now and worse later. That's natural philosophy we can all live by in peace.
Those who rely on supernatural beings to get them out of the hell they create for themselves will be disappointed. That's all our roots. I understand there are those, even a panelist here who says Jesus soothes those jangled nerves of the guilty standing before the bar. That's like putting a band aid on a fracture.
Seems you folks have run through a lot of supernatural being salesmen. Can I expect Islam to fade away like Hinduism and Buddhism? That's a start to say the least.
Speaking of the Philippines, aren't they under siege from radical Islamic groups? Peace on earth cannot come until we all get back to our roots and acknowledge the rights of all others. Life is the most fundamental of rights. How does a Muslim justify taking the life an innocent victim? Must expect the victim to go to hell or that Allah will protect him from the victim in the next world. Do I have that straight?
I'm happy to see that your group isn't insisting on the destruction of Israel like millions of others for any reason, religious or otherwise. Looks to me like you're not what could be called main stream Muslims. If it was so easy to accept Islam for you maybe you could have a talk with them - before the two tallest building in the world go up in smoke again - in the name of Allah.
Like that whole idea of the Nativity scenes that have turned into an excuse to oppress non-Christians...
The scene *didn't happen.* At least not as presented. There was *no* micromanaged census, certainly not one which would force people to leave Egypt on a donkey's back: there was in fact, no census of the sort, and no use for the data in the Roman world if it could be gathered in the first place. Never mind killing firstborn sons when in fact the Empire was desperate for male citizen-soldiers.
That-all just didn't happen.
Takes a modern mind to think that's even a reasonable proposition.
Do you have any idea the logistics of just the donkey-fodder it'd take to carry a statistically-significant population across the Sinai desert?
Forget about it. :)
The empire just didn't have the punch-card machines you'd need to even *use* that data. If it meant anything at the time. Even the Domesday Book of King James Bible times was of limited utility, even with the wealth concentrated over just the south of England.
"When you dump Christianity, which of your roots did you return to? What are the roots you acknowledge - Cultural? Ethnic? Intellectual?"
I'd say he's not returning to any roots at all, merely observing that a lot of the aggressive monotheist indoctrination we're all subjected to does in fact seem *backwards* to a lot of reasonable minds.
I'd go so far as to say he's more interested in being *pissed off* about that than actually *returning to roots.* Roots where that kind of talk is only so important in the first place, once you aren't trying to defend a soul perched on the edge of someone else's imaginary abyss.
Our *roots* are a world where *what you think* isn't a matter of paradise vs torture, and Gods help anyone that gets in the way of that little pressure-cooker.
Our *roots* are in a world where there's always more to learn, always a being bigger than you, but where *life is not a desert, only held back by an authority*
Where life, and, the Gods, and 'God,' are *actually bigger than what we think in our mortal heads,*
Where people would *live by honor and dedicate their faith to the idea that *winning isn't everything,* especially if 'winning' meant dishonoring yourself and looking to a book for a reason to justify it.*
*spit.*
Roots. Bgone's not about *roots.*
Roots say, trust people, trust the Gods, and dont' try to control things with a book.
I always want to say to Bgone. Put. The. Book. Down. It proves nothing. No more for you than for those who try to prove other things.
This is not your heart, or your tribe, or your heritage.
You *got to live, cousin.* No more, no less.
There's nothing you can prove here like that.
Fight over some books long enough, the books'll look important.
"Christian missionaries followed English and Dutch colonisers in Indonesia and Malaysia. They are not as successful as the missionaries who followed the Spaniards who conquered the Philippines. If you know Latin America history, you'll understand why most Filipinos are good Catholics."
Also why the tribal folks in the Philippines have some of the most effective martial arts on the planet. There was some very real and brutal colonial-cum-religious oppression going on there up till when WWII shifted the perspective.
Interesting thing about the 'animism' of the area of Indonesia is, ....they got a world-tree, too, though, being tropical, don't care so much about the Winter Solstice. :)
"Official watermelon"? "Established watermelon"? Dump Islam before it destroy me and to return to my roots? That's really funny.
What roots? Which roots? Hope you're not confusing me with Kunta Kinte of Alex Haley's "Roots". His roots is not mine. He would be surprised if I want to claim his roots as mine. I know my roots. We may all originate from Africa biologically, but we have become culturally different in still many ways.
By the way, Indonesians and Malaysians were animist, then Hindu, then Buddhist and now most are Muslims. There are still animist, Hindu and Buddhist minorities in Indonesia and Malaysia. Christian missionaries were and are still very active among animists in both countries. Want to tell them to stop preaching and let these people go back to their "roots"? They all become very proper westernised oriental gentlemen and ladies after becoming Christians and attend church more devoutly than Europeans.
Christian missionaries followed English and Dutch colonisers in Indonesia and Malaysia. They are not as successful as the missionaries who followed the Spaniards who conquered the Philippines. If you know Latin America history, you'll understand why most Filipinos are good Catholics.
And yes, you're right when you said "Freedom to believe is misrepresented as right to enforce belief". But in reality, it is not only "misrepresented" by some as that, but manipulated and abused as freedom to preach only a particular belief as the one true one. You know this already.
When you dump Christianity, which of your roots did you return to? What are the roots you acknowledge - Cultural? Ethnic? Intellectual?
Let's see if I can shed some light on "A Distraction:'s" post. It's this way. Israel as a Jewish state must be preserved so Jesus will return and the world can come to an end. That almost happened, 1843 except the Jews hadn't come home from exile yet. What we are about now is who shall run the kingdom of God while we wait for Jesus to return. Israel must be preserved else Jesus won't come back and the world will keep on being.
I don't want to bust somebody's bubble but the book of Ezekiel around chapter 30 has a similar story where it's the Egyptians that will be scattered to the four winds and then returned home.
That hoax buster fellow says Israelites are actually "builders" and not Jews. And we know when it comes to Egyptian "building" that was all done by Egyptians in a effort to save their souls. Well, there was the rare case of Akhetaten built by Akhenaten, AMENophis IV who led 12 tribes of foreigners out of Egypt, just across the sea of reeds, the Nile river where they built a tabernacle to a "ball of fire" God - the fire was the variety that burned but did not consume. You don't suppose?
Maybe when the congress recognizes the fact that the Bible is a proved hoax, a non binding resolution to that effect...?
I prefer http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul to clarify what's up with the congress. The big campaign money goes to those leading the multitudes to hell - as though the ministry didn't have a patent on leading multitudes to hell.
I'm sorry I couldn't understand anything about your post.
Where does Rabbi Kula's dialogue discuss supporting Israel? Is it somehow implied in the House Resolution?
Are you suggesting that Congressional "funding of Israel" should be done somehow with other than "indigenous populations?"
Who are the non-Christians who have been feeling "unwelcome" for "millenium after millenium" (suggesting the entire length of Christianity?), and what nation-state are you requesting that they move from?
Once they move to their new nation-state, what are you suggesting they "whine" about?
"The bill was introduced in response to previous resolutions recognizing the Muslim celebration of Ramadan and the Hindu Diwali. King introduced this resolution because these two previous resolutions had been offered earlier this year in October."
Hrm, Rabbi. Well, strictly speaking, if not not for the actual Dominionist text of the law, I'd say that if they'll pass resolutions recognizing Ramadan and Diwali, it'd be fair enough to recognize the Christian holiday... if it'd stopped there instead of trying to give Christianity a *privileged* place.
And do you *really* think Congress would or could pass a resolution based on the cultural importance of European and Middle-Eastern Pagan traditions?
Heck, no, ...Church-state-separation attackers will often say quite overtly, 'How can we get access to schools as religious proselytization grounds while still silencing Wiccans?'
Pagans of any stripe have trouble being treated fairly by politicians on far more weighty matters, cause all a Fundie has to say is, 'Do you mean you support, 'Witchcraft?'
(whether you call yourself a Wiccan or a 'Witch,' or not, Christian activists aren't exactly known for drawing the distinction between Pagan revivals and the dark, Satanic characters from their *own* religious belief: in fact, too often policy is made, not based on the real people, but in fact, Christian myths and beliefs and even active defamations about what anyone they can *call* a witch must be.)
So, while on one hand, I can see passing a resolution recognizing each of the faiths in our nation, (at least if the Religious Right could refrain from intruding further on our separation of church and state by turning it from good-will to an *expression of some kind of supremacy) ...the exercise went from a reminder that there are other valid faiths in America to one where, in the true Bushian tradition, now, apparently, the *government* decides what faiths should be considered legitimate and recognized, instead of it being an inalienable human right.
Shame on those who took it there, and Merry Christmas, anyway.
if there's anything our Congress should not be doing is to continue to fund the inhuman policies of the state of Israel vis-a-vis the indigenous populations. also- if some non-Christians feel
unwelcome(year after year- or rather century after century- or millenium after millenium) - perhaps they should consider moving to other nation-states where christianity is a minority religion so that they can whine together.
As per many NT exegetes to include Professors John D. Crossan, Marcus Borg and Paula Fredriksen there is "No Historic Reason for the Christian Christmas Season".
"Professor Gerd Lüdemann"
Commenting on the infancy narratives overall, Luedemann [Jesus, 124-29] concludes that Luke and Matthew represent "two equally unhistorical narratives." He cites the occurrence of a miraculous heavenly sign at key points in the life of Mithridates VI in a history written by Justinus (active in the reign of Augustus, 2 BCE to 14 CE). "
Professor/Father John P. Meier of Notre Dame
"Meier [Marginal Jew I,211ff and 376] considers these traditions to be "largely products of early Christian reflection on the salvific meaning of Jesus in the light of OT prophecies" and concludes that their historicity is "highly questionable."
Of course any Congressional resolution about the Jewish faith would be amended as follows:
Abraham founder/father of three major religions was probably a mythical character. If he was real, he was at best a combination of at least three men. 1.5 million Conservative Jews and their rabbis have relegated Abraham to the myth pile along with most if not all the OT. See the simpletoremember.com/vitals/ConservativeTorah website.
Of course any Congressional resolution about Islam would be amended as follows:
Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, warmongering, hallucinating Arab who also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" aka "pretty wingy thingies" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.
This agenda continues as shown by the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic train bombers in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani koranics, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, and the Filipino koranics.
And who funds these acts of terror? The Islamic Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.
There is no ban on government establishing watermelon or pet holidays in the constitution. And, I can't help but notice we have no "official" or "established" watermelon. As Billy Graham is known as America's pastor we have no watermelon equivalent. We do have an "established" turkey, (folks in Texas been eating chicken for the past 7 years - their turkey is in the white house).
If you believe anything that's OK. If you insist your beliefs be part of the public scene don't be surprised at resistance, (Iraq and all over Muslimville). Freedom to believe is misrepresented as right to enforce belief. I think Muslims have done a real good job at that misrepresented right to enforce belief throughout history. I mean, Indonesia wasn't Muslim to begin with was it? Ever think about returning to your roots? Dump Islam before it destroys you?
All Comments (45)
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August 20, 2008 6:17 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on August 20, 2008 18:17
Zyrtec 5 or 10 mg. Rapidity and discreet delivery on Next Day (FedEx Overnight). The low price and free medical consultation.
August 20, 2008 3:06 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on August 20, 2008 03:06
"HAPPY NEW YEAR, EVERYONE!!!"
If it could happen, even if only for one single day, I would have PEACE everywhere, FOOD and WATER for every being, and HAPPINESS for all.
Just once!!!
December 31, 2007 12:55 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on December 31, 2007 12:55
Ah, "Love IT when a plan comes together.."
From The American 70's hit "THE-A-TEAM" Mr. "T" "Hannibal" et al! Ya Ya!
December 29, 2007 8:13 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on December 29, 2007 20:13
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key Words; VATICAN? WAPO? CHUCK SCHUMER?
What is the Problem?
Again Why Editor Why????
What do you do with them ESSAY's?
You have not answered.
December 28, 2007 4:33 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on December 28, 2007 16:33
Did you knoweth. that in awareness of O.U.R. Holy Cosmic Photon Essence's , in a Photon-mist or in a BIO-FINITE form (Naked), that We Eclati-On(s) , never OFF(s), must 'try' to be nice nice very unselfish nice, while on this miraculous Planety of Many Today???? Ya Ya! AND;
Did you knoweth, that when We Eclati-On(s) [note: ECLAT via SOUND =Flash 1st, BigBang=2nd, & then US 3rd!???] experience the POOF-TIME a Gonna Moment that O.U.R. BIO-FINITE Death is never our TRANSFINITE (REALITY in holy cosmic motion) DEATH???????? AND
Did ye knoweth that upon Bio-Finite death (also a M"i"racle) always takes each HEURISTICa/o (a MAVORITE/male & a SPORADE/female via each and their own so called Spirit/Soul stuff etc..) to the Holy NON-GRAVITY Place of the 5th Dimention of 9 dimention(s) at the DUE-TO-BE as each 'Passeth' into the entropy & inbetween the PHOTON frequency Spectrum of O.U.R. immortal Frequency by way of the Holy PLASMATRICULATION????!!! ????! Ya Ya!
Note: The (9) Dimention(s) are seperate Realms!
The 1st, 2nd, 3rd & 4th realm is NOW, YOU, US in "IT" via ITSELF that naturally is just Following IT's own LAW(s) of IT's NATURE & thus is doing the ORDERING of IT's Things & Stuff via US-ALL, together forever with SOURCE-ONE the Faearless & Thus Zro Jealous Holy NO-MAN LORD/ECLAT + "i" + LIFE (for a TIME)!??? Ya Ya. AND that,
The 5th Dimention is O.U.R. "HOME-BASE" so to spaketh! Yet the 6th , 7th , 8th & 9th Dimention belongs exclusively to the Holy no-Man CREATOR of the Holy Cosmic 'F*I*A*T-L*U*X', aka ECLAT!????
December 28, 2007 2:14 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on December 28, 2007 14:14
Please see the 1st 'American Born' PROPHETa (woman, not Marr Baker Eddy) , Sweet Sweet Sistar(s) HELEN SCHUCMAN [pbuh], aka The SCRIBER!! Please see:
http://www.facim.org/acim/description.htm
NOTE: These folk has been deleating alot of me links lately, especially the link that Senator Chucks Shamer has with the Getty turned Russian LUK-oil company that has him in their pocket & now Luk oil's President is today's Russia's President to be! Ya Ya
Important: Wherever you read "he" or 'him' [for Mr. Yashua, aka G-D] please 'plug-in' the word "IT" or 'ITSELF' thanks!
G-d is neither a 'HE" nor a 'She' JUSTLY say G-d is an IT or being ITSELF, in and of Us ALL!
Note: "IT" was the "MELCHIZEDEK" [Superior of ABRAHAM, VYASA & GAUTAMA et al] that PROPHETa , Mrs. Helen Schucman mistaken!
Same like when Brethren(s) Mr. Joseph SMITH Jr. [pbuh] had mistakingly labeled "MORONi" for the Holy 'MELCHIZEDEK'![ the Superior of MUHAMMAD & JESUS & ABRAHAM & MOSES et al too!]! Ya Ya! AND;
What this REVELATION (opposite of SECRETS) tell-US in sweet sweet U.A. of A., that it was the "MELCHIZEDEK" Peace Blessing rightly given to the "SHILOH" The Photon Bringer of the APOCALYPSE, not just at MT. CUMORAH via Smith, nor via SCHUCMAN at COLUMBIA HILL , N.Y. CITY, that it was on MT. TRANSFINITY, that "IT" came or 'ITSELF' appeared to them!
December 28, 2007 1:48 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on December 28, 2007 13:48
Nelson: congrats on the sensible post. I have posted before on the fact that simple logic should lead us to be rather more humble on the claim that we posess the one true faith and that all others are praying to false gods. the logic being that we should recall that we only have the faith we have, or had, because our parents did, and their parents before them. how plausible is it that we can know that our birth accident is the one that gave us the right path?
December 28, 2007 1:47 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on December 28, 2007 13:47
Rabbi Kula, in this age of religious extremism and the trivialization of the foundational beliefs of many of the worlds greatest religions, it is refreshing to hear a voice of reason from any quarter.
My foundational faith is Roman Catholic, but I have come to believe that there are many paths to G-d and that each individual has within him or her self a piece of the puzzle, that is G-d.
The great question of our time is in my opinion, this, Can we stand for much longer the irrational and quixotic rantings of a few, misguided religionists, who make up those, who would force upon us their world-view and beliefs?
For much too long now, the religious zealots of most faiths have hijacked the once famous and needed debate on the way we, as people of faith and reason co-exist in an ever changing society.
I, for one, have debated within myself, the need for proclaiming one or another faith as "the one," and have struggled with the historical and personal significance of any faith as a means of personal identification. Why, should any one, use religion as a means of saying, "this is who I am?"
We have become a polarized and balkanized society with regards to religion and within those faiths, where we stand on certain questions about this or that part of our faith.
Can civilization withstand much longer the separation of ourselves into little cubbyholes of faith? It, cannot happen! Surely the people of reason and moderation can once again, remove from the discourse of politics and hatred the much needed and oftentimes absolutely necessary interaction between women and men of faith.
My hope is that soon, the people who have studied and reasoned within themselves, will once again take up the mantle of public discourse and show the world that as citizens of a larger society, we can make the world a better place for all, and work with each other without rancor and the feeling of superiority, about this or that faith.
December 28, 2007 7:49 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on December 28, 2007 07:49
NO MORE MR. & MRS. NICE GUY!
You killed "ALLAH" and now Allah is no-more "AKBAR" (Not Great!)!
We, not American's , not Israeli's, but ECLATi-ON(s), of Space-Ship Earth, Will annhilliate your KABBA & your AL AQSA mosque in JERUSALEM !
Please, you have 72 Hours from this post , or else!!!!
Islam will be NO MORE! Good bye KABBA! Good bye AL AQSA!
Remember, surrender Mr. Osama Bin Laden , et al, or else!
The Destruction of the Kabba, like World trade Center's will be the fault of the Bin Ladin FAMILY!
We will Execute All your 73 Children & ALL of Mr. Osama's Family! et al!
WE win you loose! Ya Ya!
G-D Bless E*C*L*A*Ti-ON's!
'Chara' Islam & 'Gondoo' Islam! [Shiiiiit] Ya Ya!
O.U.R. PEOPLE are in position!
Good bye KABBA, good bye Al AQSA DOME!
This is not a game not a Test! You weill see!
Mr. Osama Bin Ladin et al, Last Time, Please
"Surrender" (DEAD or ALIVE), surrender in less than seventy two hours!!!!! Ya Ya!
P.S.: Pakisatan is "The VANGUARD of ISLAM" yet ECLATi-ON(s) are the VANGUARDS of SPACE-SHIP PLANET EARTH!
This is O.U.R. Prophecy not your's Islam!
December 28, 2007 5:10 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on December 28, 2007 05:10
BEHOLD!
Att: SAUDi ARABIA at MECCA via KABBA!
Hear ye Hear Ye, The KABBA will be destroyed in 72 Hours, unless Al Quada Surrenders! no Compromise!
Surren Mre. Bin Laden Et al, Dead or alive!!!!!!
We, not American's , but ECLATi-ON(s) Will annhilliate your KABBA & your AL AQSA mosque in JERUSALEM !
Pleas, you have 72 Hours from this post , or else!!!!
Islam will be NO MORE! Good bye KABBA! Good bye AL AQSA!
Remember, surrender Mr. Osama Bin Laden , et al, or else! The Destruction of the Kabba, like World trade Center's will be the fault of the Bin Ladin FAMILY!
We will Execute All your 73 Children Mr. Osama, et al!
Ya Ya!
December 27, 2007 7:39 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on December 27, 2007 19:39
Thanks Gaby -
We have much in common regarding the role of consciousness in all aspects of life. Your approach sounds quite Buddhistic, and that philosophy figures heavily in my conception of Reality.
I see consciousness as independently existing and timeless in nature as well - and with several levels stepping down from Univeral consciousness to individual consciousness as it resides in all sentient creatures. As you say, quantum physicists recognize the essential role of the observer (effect) as being the necessary catalyst that instantly converts the abstract probable world of possibilities (wave function) into our concrete material (particle-based) world.
Certainly this collapse of the wave function is a primary role of consciousness and/or byproduct of measuring processes, procedures, and devices.
If physicists took their thinking to a logical end (as some do) you'd have to accept that the entire manifest universe is forever 'entangled' and continuously interactive (within an infinite web of non-local relationships). With that thought, I just flashed back to the Carlos Casteneda series, where the shaman Don Genero describes reality in just this way (knowing how to travel the web and working with vibrations is part of the shaman's art),
And if holographic theory is correct in this paradigm, then due to the nature of holograms the entire universe could well exist in each particle or atom (much like fractals - computer generated images that contain the whole in each tiny part).
You've clearly done a lot of thinking to tie it all together. Lately I'm reading a series of books by Fred Alan Wolfe, a physicist with a huge interest in alternate realities and consciousness research. Good stuff.
I'm with you on tolerance and divesting yourself of all phobias - if we're forever entangled then I guess we're all equally our brother's keeper - whether we like it or not.
Best regards and good chatting with you!!
December 27, 2007 6:19 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on December 27, 2007 18:19
Thanks for looking out for me, Anon!
Don't worry though, I can hold my own with Jacob. Actually, he is quite literate and I understand a little about Eclat. In a queer way Jacob and I hold the same believe, except that I have nothing against other religions or homosexuals. I don't quite understand that aspect of him.
A long time ago, he gave me the moniker "Warm Heart" because I chose not to malign him, but to understand. His earlier postings were not nearly as hostile as he has become of late. Rather the message was one of love and inclusiveness. I don't understand what is wrong with him lately.
A long time ago (at least long in terms of blog longevity), another poster by the name of Pamela captured the essence of my "religion". She spelled in out in a manner I never could. If you are interested, please read below.
"PAMELA :
I've read the few posts with references to the conscience with great interest for that is my spiritual focus.
Although I regard myself a believer, I most often side with the views of atheists and agnostics. I think that believers of popular religions think that I'm an atheist trying to trick or confuse them by calling myself a believer and then bombarding them with a scientific viewpoint. I'm really not. I was an agnostic until I formed a god-theory that incorporates scientific method.
I know, I know. It doesn't matter if you are a believer of popular religion or an atheist, I know you're saying to yourself, 'Ridiculous!'. Believers say it because I call myself a believer, but in their eyes I'm a wolf in sheep's clothing and atheists say it because in their viewpoint science and religion is like oil and water, you can't mix the two due to the faith factor.
Yes, religion requires faith by definition. My belief has faith in the same way that Quantum Mechanics has faith, only the term used is 'Probability'. It is a science that does not allow certainty. You could say it is a faith-based science. ;)
There is a major difference between my God and those of other religions. My God is the collective conscience and although it is all-knowing via the contribution of all singular consciences, it is powerless in the physical world because it does not reside within physical dimensions and therefore it is something that we cannot discern with our five senses.
Okay, you might consider that statement to be a deal-breaker and your about ready to write me off as a kook, but before you go please let me say this - time resides in a non-physical dimension as well. We cannot discern it with any of our five senses either, but I haven’t found anyone willing to say they don’t believe in time. The three physical dimensions move through time (aka spacetime). They work in perfect concert and are meaningless without one another.
The concept of a dimension that houses the conscience, or Observer as I like to call it, is not a far stretch from the concept of a time dimension - especially if you are already familiar with the concept of time as a dimension.
To illustrate the concept, I envision all of the conscious beings that I know to exist and they are all right here on this planet - humans, dogs, insects, birds, whales, etc. For the sake of argument, let us say that Earth is the only place in all of creation that has such rare and wondrous creatures. Then one day, by whatever unfortunate event - BOOM! No more Earth.
All that is left is physical matter moving through time, but what are they worth without an observer? They are instantly meaningless. Just like matter is meaningless without time and time is meaningless without matter, both become meaningless if there is nothing – or no one – to observe them.
In my belief, the dimension of conscience, or rather the conscious dimension, is a cohesive member of this awesome realm and without it, there can be no concept of awesome, no concept of realm. No concepts at all.
As I stated in an earlier post, M Theory suggests as many as 11 dimensions. My belief is that the conscious dimension is one of them. Since only four dimensions are currently known, that still leaves room for further discovery.
Although my God in all-knowing, it is in no way powerful. Power is a physical concept and resides in the physical dimension. My God has no physical form and therefore no power over physical things. It can only observe via consciousness. All conscious beings (of which I'm aware) are limited in this way. For instance, we cannot move objects by thought. If we want to move something, we must move it by physical means within the physical dimensions. When we want to move something and then physically move it, we are making a ‘conscious effort’ (the physical manifestation of thought) which demonstrates our inter-connectedness to the physical dimensions and the conscious dimension.
Most of us are aware that we are inter-dimensionally connected to, and experience, time and physical matter cohesively. It is a small step to accept that we also experience conscience. Or rather, without conscience we cannot experience anything or prove that experience itself exists. A physical body devoid of conscience is, for all practical purposes, dead.
How could it be proven that ANYTHING EXISTS if there were no observer? This may sound like a stupid question, but a true thinker will lose sleep over it.
The human species has a mind-body combination that allows us to observe, question and experience our environment and communicate unlike any other earth species. Our distinctly human ability to convey complex ideas and concepts to one another using language in both verbal and written form differentiates, and separates, us from our other earthly brethren.
In my opinion, that is why we, the human species, don’t consider other species to have souls (or a conscience, as I prefer to refer to it). I disagree with that notion. Most other species have a monumental comparative disadvantage to humans due to physical and language limitations. If you compare our closest relative, the chimp, you’ll find that their major remaining disadvantage is lack of complex language. It is not that the chimp doesn’t want to speak, it can not speak due to the physical location of its voice box. However, for years now researchers have been successfully teaching chimps sign language. These chimps regulary communicate emotions - love, fear, anger, lonliness, etc. - the basis of conscience. And now those chimps are teaching sign language to the next generation of chimps. Granted, chimps may never make great tax accountants but it doesn’t make them any less a conscious being than you or I or any other species. They, as all conscious beings, are observers that participate and contribute their unique perspective of creation and existence.
Much has been written here about good and evil. These are human concepts attributed to physical acts after the fact. I cannot think of a single thing that is good or evil that is non-physical. We can think evil thoughts, but are we evil if we never commit the physical act? Someone once told me that intentionally starving someone unnecessarily would qualify because no physical act needed to be carried out, i.e. not bringing food is an evil non-physical act. I disagree. The ‘evil’ physical act is starvation which you’ve allowed to continue. This can be turned into ‘good’ by the physical act of bringing food to alleviate starvation. Acts, whether good or evil, require a ‘conscious effort’, of which my God is incapable – but we certainly are.
To that point, in my rationale, we are responsible for good and evil via free will. The blood of every heinous unnatural act in our history rests on human hands. The glory for every good deed is ours as well. My God cannot forgive, forget, reward or punish for any physical act. That is our responsibility and our burden.
We all experience our conscience and we all share similar conscious experiences. Our five incredible senses allow our conscience to appreciate the external physical world and it allows us to think, dream and experience emotions.
For me, there is no need to prove the existence of conscience. The conscience exists because without it, you could prove nothing else.
Peace!"
December 27, 2007 4:55 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on December 27, 2007 16:55
Gaby - beware...
Mr. Headbanger has gotten pretty nasty on some of these threads lately. Hostile thinly veiled & threatening language hiding behind quasi-religious gobbledigook needs to be much more closely monitored by the blog masters. You can see his nasty little 'prison-inspired' comment to me at the bottom of his post and carried over from another thread. Suddenly his command of English gets remarkably normal. This whacko is nothing if not manipulative and very, very angry.
JJ - you were no doubt Harry's prized pupil in the can and PS - you don't end up in a maximum security federal pen like the one in Marion for stealing groceries to take care of your child with a cleft pallet - especially doing a 50 year stretch. John Gotti and a few of the better known serial killers have been warehoused there.
PPS -
Your alleged career as an international smuggler is dubious at best, along with your redoubtable history as a student of religion. It's time to come to Jesus - I know you'll feel better when you do and Mitt will respect you for it!!
It's a Win Win........
December 27, 2007 11:23 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on December 27, 2007 11:23
Jacob, STOP IT! You are Eclati-OFF!!!
Tonka Shame, Ya Ya!!!
December 27, 2007 10:53 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on December 27, 2007 10:53
i agree whole heartedly that government and religion are and should be two distinct entities....as such each is free to deliver its different but in my mind essential to the fabric of civilization's role. government as i understand it has arisen as a means to suppy the skeltal framework and infrastructure 4 all who live and contribute to it. it is decided on in its charictar by the wishes of the prevailing streants of its constituants. over time certain things are identified by most as being essential and get done eventually somehow by someboy.. often by everybody.. the alternative is self sufficiancy or chaos each of these through the ages has proved worse than some form of central government. religion and spirituality is and individual somewhat solitary endeavor... no matter how manny people gather and call themselves by a name each cannot attain spiritual gifts and progress by simply being a part of and giving a little time or money. faith is not attained by birthright, is not something that can be readily described or shown in advance like a bridge or a highway can be expected to benifit all who travel them. .. to get worked up about sombody trying to legislate faith is absurd when you think about it in these terms eye think...they can order or decree anything but it simply will be prperly ignored. i could'nt help but notice you mentioned quite correctly i think the christians an the muslims... but my freind you had nothing to say about the massive lobbying by your religion for aid, for miltary weapons, and for moral justification when israel herself has done all of the things themselves in lebanon that they use to idedentify a terrorist nation or pople in others. they bombed civilian power plants and bridges in another country, they killed inoccent civillians even christians... there stratagiey seems to be to terrorize the terrorist thus making them in my mind morally flawed.yet your lobbiest want us to vetoe in the united nations to protect them from themselves... claiming somehow to be superior to others and demanding much of the usa's christians and moulims tax money to support a state that with out foreign aid would most likely turn into a mirage. please tell your brothers to make peace or start earning thier own keep. the way i read the bible the jews and my ancestors were jewish... were exiled for not obeying God... do you not realize God could exile you again if he choses. i do not claim to think or know what Gods plans are.... do you know my freind.... i think not... i will pray 4 you your religion and israel to take the chip of your sholder... put peace in your heart... the abused child has grown up to be a wife beater metaphorically. if you are the ones with nuclear weapons you just mightr be the bully instead of the victum
December 27, 2007 6:25 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on December 27, 2007 06:25
For those interested in the origins of JJ's metaphysics, please google Harry Theriault and the Church of the New Song for a full revelation.
Said Mr. Theriault as the 2nd Messiah created ECLAT ET AL while incarcerated at the federal pen in Marion, IL circa 1978 and thereupon requested special religious dispensation for favors and privilages - which were likely not forthcoming. His crime was not clear, but his artistry as a scammer is not doubted. Prision conversions are legion, but Messiahs continue to be rare behind bars.
Perhaps we have the esteemed creator of this prison religion here with us today, and scamming to the maximum as usual.
Perhaps someone should let Mr. Romney know that he is a very big part of this New Revelation.
December 26, 2007 3:26 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on December 26, 2007 15:26
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Where is the "APPROVAL"?
What do you do with Non-Approvals?
December 26, 2007 11:57 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on December 26, 2007 11:57
JJ -
Please send an emmisary from your world so the matter can be discussed by experts. For example, you can send the spirits of Joseph Smith, Jr. and Brigham Young along with their band of polygamist womanizers and we will petition the spirits of Black Elk, Geronimo, Crazy Horse, et al to determine who exactly has the corner on home-grown religion. LDS is quite an upstart by any historical standard - going back to 1830 or thereabouts.
Your nonsense is utterly obnoxious to one and all. Today's mormons prefer Church of the Latter Day Saints by the way, as 'mormon' is seen as a pejorative term associated with their early
polygamist philosophy - now defunct and seen as a grevious offense to the church.
Grow up and cease and desist with your delusional and insulting diatribes.
December 26, 2007 10:06 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on December 26, 2007 10:06
Why do people get so exercised about their religion that they are willing to offend and even threaten other people with their beliefs?
I think it's because the presence of prosperous non-believers in their midst seems to make them feel less secure in their own comforting belief that their charitable and pious actions will be rewarded in life.
They never stop to ask themselves whether their own beliefs are reasonable or helpful to themselves or anyone else.
Most people aren't always dashing around in public saying they love Jesus or have been "saved." Many who do are quite anxious to get their own beliefs verified by praying in public places in a preferably large crowd. That's the reason for the public displays, I think.
They don't know yet about Bible verses that say not to make a show of piety in public, but to go into your closet to pray in secret.
December 26, 2007 12:03 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on December 26, 2007 00:03
Dear Rabbi,
if you think this a congressional waste think of the money being wasted in sending from our taspayer´s tases to Israel for the destructions of its neighbors, especially Palestine,their children and women.
as a human race we must not be religious, because of the importante to our survival. Let´s think about a whole universe and not only our mother earth. your article is contravesial and all it brings is more hate just like in the israeli/palestinian conflict. Your article has been told for many decades to the americans, and because of it we, the americans are involved in the isrtaeli/palestinian war, Lebanon, Iraq, Afghanistan. Is it realy worth it to be religious, whether Christian, Jew, Islamic., or whatever?
Latino from the universe and not religious
December 25, 2007 5:29 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on December 25, 2007 17:29
The recent action of the Congress in passing the "Christmas/Christian Friendly Bill" is the worst gift under the tree! Is this some kind of joke? It only reveals the desperate struggle of the elected officals for survival not the need to shore up the foundations of Christian faith. They passed it out of fear but not out of their own faith. Such actions clearly lead us into the highway of a theocracy not a democracy. President Bush is hard enough to take without him also being called Your Holiness Bush! Bah! Humbug! on Congress.
December 25, 2007 4:51 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on December 25, 2007 16:51
J, PP:
Our roots are common according to absolutely everyone. The religious say we are all children of God with a single patriarch, Adam. The scientist says we all evolved from lower life forms with our present group happening in Africa, (so we are all African-X, not just black folks).
We don't need to go back that far to find common "religious/political" roots. There was never a time when people did not die. Our roots at that juncture of life are all common. In the beginning every group of people on earth said exactly the same thing about the dead - they are not dead but have gone on to a new world. I can give you a list of particular ways of saying that if you need it. For example, some native Americans called the next world "the happy hunting ground" implying that world is better than this one. Better world is common too.
Rather than lecture you, let me ask a question instead. Come up with a scenario, one is enough, to get from there, all dead go to the same place to people committing suicide to kill others. You'll need to go back a little farther than European colonists anywhere.
And, oh! I celebrate Christmas big time. Christmas is a national holiday and must therefore include all. For me it's Halloween witches, Thanksgiving turkey and Christmas trees. None of them are uniquely Christian. Well, maybe turkey.
Happy whatever day and happy all other days too.
December 25, 2007 10:54 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on December 25, 2007 10:54
Hello Paganplace,
Yes about the animists of Indonesia and then some. They are very good in natural remedy for ailments. Their knowledge is co-opted
as "traditional" medication.
I am starting to notice not only some Christians, but some atheists really giving Pagans an interesting time in On Faith threads. And nasty posts too from people in the land of the free and home of the brave on pagans and their rights. If they can do this to their own fellow Americans, any wonder why foreigners don't quite trust nor believe America's intention coming in to "rescue" and "free" them?
Regards always
"J"
--------------------------------------------------
Hello BGone
Oh yes.
You : "Let me check. Yep, I'm human. Human roots say there is no hell - everyone goes to exactly the same place after this life no matter how they lived this one."
Excuse me? I had thought that one's roots means one's cultural and historical heritage, not just biological. Heaven and hell as our roots? That is more of religious beliefs that should unfettered your mind anyway.
You : "Jesus soothes those jangled nerves of the guilty standing before the bar. That's like putting a band aid on a fracture."
What soothes your jangled nerves?
You : "Seems you folks have run through a lot of supernatural being salesmen. Can I expect Islam to fade away like Hinduism and Buddhism? That's a start to say the least."
"You folks?" Some Hindu friends in India addressed me as "You people". The last I check, Hinduism and Buddhism is very much alive in Asia.
But you can expect and hope for anything you wish for.
You : "Speaking of the Philippines, aren't they under siege from radical Islamic groups? Peace on earth cannot come until we all get back to our roots and acknowledge the rights of all others."
The Southern Filipino Muslims have been fighting, first against Spaniard domination and control, and now against their own central government. It is a war that have been going on for over five hundred years. Think Northern Ireland.
You : "Life is the most fundamental of rights. How does a Muslim justify taking the life an innocent victim? Must expect the victim to go to hell or that Allah will protect him from the victim in the next world. Do I have that straight?"
No justification, no reason at all under Islam or any faith or secular law to take an innocent life. My Indonesian paternal grandfather died fighting against the Dutch colonisers' troops. They killed members of his family as an example to intimidate and force them to yield their lands for a Dutch coffee plantation.
A simple question for you - Why are the British, French and Dutch, who are so civlised in their own lands, such brutal colonisers overseas? Why do they want to colonise other lands and rule over other people?
You : "I'm happy to see that your group isn't insisting on the destruction of Israel like millions of others for any reason, religious or otherwise."
"Your group"? So, you are giving "our group" a gold medal or something for behaving as your civilised and rational western sensibilities hope for?:)
I'm a wee confused. You are a hard core atheist calling religion a superstition and God a delusion, but accepting Israel's rights to exist based on a historical-religious covenant with a God you don't believe in?
I should be happy to see Europe is happy there is Israel after the Shoah. And I should be happy Christian Zionists are happy there is an Israel for hastening the Armageddon. We'll have to ask the Palestinians why they are so very upset.
Just so you know if you don't already, practically all Muslim states accepts a two-state solution and Israel's right to exist. Even the majority of Palestinians. Only it be a just solution acceptable to both sides. Now if that is possible.
Remember always that Israelis and Palestinians are not cannon fodder in any manufactured "war of civilisations" or to bring on the Armageddon.
Regards and Happy New Year.
"J"
December 25, 2007 4:36 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on December 25, 2007 04:36
Because the Senate didn't pass a substantially similar resolution, H.Res. 847 has and couldn't have any legal force. It IS a blatant and shocking instance of Congressional endorsement of one religion, and if both Houses had passed it, it would have been an unconstitutional endorsement. A waste of time and a waste of what has seemed (over the past few years) to be dwindling collective brain power of the U. S. Congress.
What could have done to prevent this resolution from being unconstitutional? Ultimately, perhaps no editing could have saved it from a First Amendment violation. But removing the 4th, 6th, and 8th "Whereas" recitals and numbered paragraph (4) from the Resolution itself would have been a good start. The verbiage in those portions of the text was either an explicit endorsement of Christian religious dogma / mythology / tradition or a questionable exaggeration of the historical record about (a) "Western civilization," (b) the philosophical foundations of the American constitutional republic, and (c) the religious views of the Founding Fathers, most of whom would not pass the current 21st-century litmus test for being "Christian."
A very good sign of H.Res. 847's silliness and unconstitutionality is how Representative Mike Pence of Indiana -- a rock-ribbed Republican AND conservative Christian -- voted on the Resolution. He voted "present," meaning that he took no position for or against the Resolution. Even he knew and tacitly acknowledged that the Resolution was both unconstitutional and demeaning/degrading toward whatever it is that true Christians hold to be sacred and important.
December 25, 2007 4:14 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on December 25, 2007 04:14
That was me, not J, Bgone.
What were you bugging about, again?
Seriously, now that the Christians are all like snug in their beds, ....you strike out in all directions like Bibles really mean something but are still all backwards.
Now that it's just us mouses, ... what would you like?
December 25, 2007 12:20 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on December 25, 2007 00:20
Happy new year to you too Jihadist.
My roots? Let's see. I think I'm a human being. Let me check. Yep, I'm human. Human roots say there is no hell - everyone goes to exactly the same place after this life no matter how they lived this one. Of course how one lives this life can be hellish right here and now - Scott Peterson for example. And when Scotty gets to that next world, (after all his appeals are exhausted and the "terminator" ignores his final pleas) Traci and Trevor will be there waiting for him. Bad now and worse later. That's natural philosophy we can all live by in peace.
Those who rely on supernatural beings to get them out of the hell they create for themselves will be disappointed. That's all our roots. I understand there are those, even a panelist here who says Jesus soothes those jangled nerves of the guilty standing before the bar. That's like putting a band aid on a fracture.
Seems you folks have run through a lot of supernatural being salesmen. Can I expect Islam to fade away like Hinduism and Buddhism? That's a start to say the least.
Speaking of the Philippines, aren't they under siege from radical Islamic groups? Peace on earth cannot come until we all get back to our roots and acknowledge the rights of all others. Life is the most fundamental of rights. How does a Muslim justify taking the life an innocent victim? Must expect the victim to go to hell or that Allah will protect him from the victim in the next world. Do I have that straight?
I'm happy to see that your group isn't insisting on the destruction of Israel like millions of others for any reason, religious or otherwise. Looks to me like you're not what could be called main stream Muslims. If it was so easy to accept Islam for you maybe you could have a talk with them - before the two tallest building in the world go up in smoke again - in the name of Allah.
Regards.
December 25, 2007 12:04 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on December 25, 2007 00:04
The rebbe said it best and eloquently.
As some wag said it, Washington DC is a city on the Potomac River surrounded by reality.
It looks as though we are going to flog this dead horse until the last ort of flesh is flayed off bleached bones.
December 24, 2007 11:14 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on December 24, 2007 23:14
Like that whole idea of the Nativity scenes that have turned into an excuse to oppress non-Christians...
The scene *didn't happen.* At least not as presented. There was *no* micromanaged census, certainly not one which would force people to leave Egypt on a donkey's back: there was in fact, no census of the sort, and no use for the data in the Roman world if it could be gathered in the first place. Never mind killing firstborn sons when in fact the Empire was desperate for male citizen-soldiers.
That-all just didn't happen.
Takes a modern mind to think that's even a reasonable proposition.
Do you have any idea the logistics of just the donkey-fodder it'd take to carry a statistically-significant population across the Sinai desert?
Forget about it. :)
The empire just didn't have the punch-card machines you'd need to even *use* that data. If it meant anything at the time. Even the Domesday Book of King James Bible times was of limited utility, even with the wealth concentrated over just the south of England.
December 24, 2007 10:01 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on December 24, 2007 22:01
Anyway, when you ask this of Bgone:
"When you dump Christianity, which of your roots did you return to? What are the roots you acknowledge - Cultural? Ethnic? Intellectual?"
I'd say he's not returning to any roots at all, merely observing that a lot of the aggressive monotheist indoctrination we're all subjected to does in fact seem *backwards* to a lot of reasonable minds.
I'd go so far as to say he's more interested in being *pissed off* about that than actually *returning to roots.* Roots where that kind of talk is only so important in the first place, once you aren't trying to defend a soul perched on the edge of someone else's imaginary abyss.
Our *roots* are a world where *what you think* isn't a matter of paradise vs torture, and Gods help anyone that gets in the way of that little pressure-cooker.
Our *roots* are in a world where there's always more to learn, always a being bigger than you, but where *life is not a desert, only held back by an authority*
Where life, and, the Gods, and 'God,' are *actually bigger than what we think in our mortal heads,*
Where people would *live by honor and dedicate their faith to the idea that *winning isn't everything,* especially if 'winning' meant dishonoring yourself and looking to a book for a reason to justify it.*
*spit.*
Roots. Bgone's not about *roots.*
Roots say, trust people, trust the Gods, and dont' try to control things with a book.
I always want to say to Bgone. Put. The. Book. Down. It proves nothing. No more for you than for those who try to prove other things.
This is not your heart, or your tribe, or your heritage.
You *got to live, cousin.* No more, no less.
There's nothing you can prove here like that.
Fight over some books long enough, the books'll look important.
What if it ain't so?
Ready to deal?
December 24, 2007 9:48 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on December 24, 2007 21:48
But, hey, J:
"Christian missionaries followed English and Dutch colonisers in Indonesia and Malaysia. They are not as successful as the missionaries who followed the Spaniards who conquered the Philippines. If you know Latin America history, you'll understand why most Filipinos are good Catholics."
Also why the tribal folks in the Philippines have some of the most effective martial arts on the planet. There was some very real and brutal colonial-cum-religious oppression going on there up till when WWII shifted the perspective.
December 24, 2007 9:34 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on December 24, 2007 21:34
Hi, J! Merry Everyone-else's holiday! :)
Interesting thing about the 'animism' of the area of Indonesia is, ....they got a world-tree, too, though, being tropical, don't care so much about the Winter Solstice. :)
December 24, 2007 9:12 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on December 24, 2007 21:12
Hello BGone,
How's your holidays?
"Official watermelon"? "Established watermelon"? Dump Islam before it destroy me and to return to my roots? That's really funny.
What roots? Which roots? Hope you're not confusing me with Kunta Kinte of Alex Haley's "Roots". His roots is not mine. He would be surprised if I want to claim his roots as mine. I know my roots. We may all originate from Africa biologically, but we have become culturally different in still many ways.
By the way, Indonesians and Malaysians were animist, then Hindu, then Buddhist and now most are Muslims. There are still animist, Hindu and Buddhist minorities in Indonesia and Malaysia. Christian missionaries were and are still very active among animists in both countries. Want to tell them to stop preaching and let these people go back to their "roots"? They all become very proper westernised oriental gentlemen and ladies after becoming Christians and attend church more devoutly than Europeans.
Christian missionaries followed English and Dutch colonisers in Indonesia and Malaysia. They are not as successful as the missionaries who followed the Spaniards who conquered the Philippines. If you know Latin America history, you'll understand why most Filipinos are good Catholics.
And yes, you're right when you said "Freedom to believe is misrepresented as right to enforce belief". But in reality, it is not only "misrepresented" by some as that, but manipulated and abused as freedom to preach only a particular belief as the one true one. You know this already.
When you dump Christianity, which of your roots did you return to? What are the roots you acknowledge - Cultural? Ethnic? Intellectual?
Regards and Happy New Year
"J"
December 24, 2007 7:04 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on December 24, 2007 19:04
Jeff P:
Let's see if I can shed some light on "A Distraction:'s" post. It's this way. Israel as a Jewish state must be preserved so Jesus will return and the world can come to an end. That almost happened, 1843 except the Jews hadn't come home from exile yet. What we are about now is who shall run the kingdom of God while we wait for Jesus to return. Israel must be preserved else Jesus won't come back and the world will keep on being.
I don't want to bust somebody's bubble but the book of Ezekiel around chapter 30 has a similar story where it's the Egyptians that will be scattered to the four winds and then returned home.
That hoax buster fellow says Israelites are actually "builders" and not Jews. And we know when it comes to Egyptian "building" that was all done by Egyptians in a effort to save their souls. Well, there was the rare case of Akhetaten built by Akhenaten, AMENophis IV who led 12 tribes of foreigners out of Egypt, just across the sea of reeds, the Nile river where they built a tabernacle to a "ball of fire" God - the fire was the variety that burned but did not consume. You don't suppose?
Maybe when the congress recognizes the fact that the Bible is a proved hoax, a non binding resolution to that effect...?
I prefer http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul to clarify what's up with the congress. The big campaign money goes to those leading the multitudes to hell - as though the ministry didn't have a patent on leading multitudes to hell.
Season's Greetings Rabbi and all.
December 24, 2007 6:13 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on December 24, 2007 18:13
A Distraction:
I'm sorry I couldn't understand anything about your post.
Where does Rabbi Kula's dialogue discuss supporting Israel? Is it somehow implied in the House Resolution?
Are you suggesting that Congressional "funding of Israel" should be done somehow with other than "indigenous populations?"
Who are the non-Christians who have been feeling "unwelcome" for "millenium after millenium" (suggesting the entire length of Christianity?), and what nation-state are you requesting that they move from?
Once they move to their new nation-state, what are you suggesting they "whine" about?
Sorry I'm just totally confused.
December 24, 2007 5:37 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on December 24, 2007 17:37
"The bill was introduced in response to previous resolutions recognizing the Muslim celebration of Ramadan and the Hindu Diwali. King introduced this resolution because these two previous resolutions had been offered earlier this year in October."
Hrm, Rabbi. Well, strictly speaking, if not not for the actual Dominionist text of the law, I'd say that if they'll pass resolutions recognizing Ramadan and Diwali, it'd be fair enough to recognize the Christian holiday... if it'd stopped there instead of trying to give Christianity a *privileged* place.
And do you *really* think Congress would or could pass a resolution based on the cultural importance of European and Middle-Eastern Pagan traditions?
Heck, no, ...Church-state-separation attackers will often say quite overtly, 'How can we get access to schools as religious proselytization grounds while still silencing Wiccans?'
Pagans of any stripe have trouble being treated fairly by politicians on far more weighty matters, cause all a Fundie has to say is, 'Do you mean you support, 'Witchcraft?'
(whether you call yourself a Wiccan or a 'Witch,' or not, Christian activists aren't exactly known for drawing the distinction between Pagan revivals and the dark, Satanic characters from their *own* religious belief: in fact, too often policy is made, not based on the real people, but in fact, Christian myths and beliefs and even active defamations about what anyone they can *call* a witch must be.)
So, while on one hand, I can see passing a resolution recognizing each of the faiths in our nation, (at least if the Religious Right could refrain from intruding further on our separation of church and state by turning it from good-will to an *expression of some kind of supremacy) ...the exercise went from a reminder that there are other valid faiths in America to one where, in the true Bushian tradition, now, apparently, the *government* decides what faiths should be considered legitimate and recognized, instead of it being an inalienable human right.
Shame on those who took it there, and Merry Christmas, anyway.
Seems like they could use one.
December 24, 2007 5:18 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on December 24, 2007 17:18
if there's anything our Congress should not be doing is to continue to fund the inhuman policies of the state of Israel vis-a-vis the indigenous populations. also- if some non-Christians feel
unwelcome(year after year- or rather century after century- or millenium after millenium) - perhaps they should consider moving to other nation-states where christianity is a minority religion so that they can whine together.
December 24, 2007 5:10 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on December 24, 2007 17:10
My amendment to HR 847:
As per many NT exegetes to include Professors John D. Crossan, Marcus Borg and Paula Fredriksen there is "No Historic Reason for the Christian Christmas Season".
There was no Virgin birth. See, http://wiki.faithfutures.org/index.php/026_Jesus_Virginally_Conceived
And there was no Star of Bethlem. http://wiki.faithfutures.org/index.php/369_Star_of_Revelation
"Professor Gerd Lüdemann"
Commenting on the infancy narratives overall, Luedemann [Jesus, 124-29] concludes that Luke and Matthew represent "two equally unhistorical narratives." He cites the occurrence of a miraculous heavenly sign at key points in the life of Mithridates VI in a history written by Justinus (active in the reign of Augustus, 2 BCE to 14 CE). "
Professor/Father John P. Meier of Notre Dame
"Meier [Marginal Jew I,211ff and 376] considers these traditions to be "largely products of early Christian reflection on the salvific meaning of Jesus in the light of OT prophecies" and concludes that their historicity is "highly questionable."
Of course any Congressional resolution about the Jewish faith would be amended as follows:
Abraham founder/father of three major religions was probably a mythical character. If he was real, he was at best a combination of at least three men. 1.5 million Conservative Jews and their rabbis have relegated Abraham to the myth pile along with most if not all the OT. See the simpletoremember.com/vitals/ConservativeTorah website.
Of course any Congressional resolution about Islam would be amended as follows:
Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, warmongering, hallucinating Arab who also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" aka "pretty wingy thingies" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.
This agenda continues as shown by the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic train bombers in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani koranics, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, and the Filipino koranics.
And who funds these acts of terror? The Islamic Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.
And Merry Reality to all!!!!!!
December 24, 2007 3:14 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on December 24, 2007 15:14
Jihadist:
There is no ban on government establishing watermelon or pet holidays in the constitution. And, I can't help but notice we have no "official" or "established" watermelon. As Billy Graham is known as America's pastor we have no watermelon equivalent. We do have an "established" turkey, (folks in Texas been eating chicken for the past 7 years - their turkey is in the white house).
If you believe anything that's OK. If you insist your beliefs be part of the public scene don't be surprised at resistance, (Iraq and all over Muslimville). Freedom to believe is misrepresented as right to enforce belief. I think Muslims have done a real good job at that misrepresented right to enforce belief throughout history. I mean, Indonesia wasn't Muslim to begin with was it? Ever think about returning to your roots? Dump Islam before it destroys you?
December 24, 2007 2:31 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on December 24, 2007 14:31
"For there is something about the unrelenting fierceness of the secular and liberal co