All Comments (58)

A prayer

MAY ALLAH GIVE YOU STRENGTH AND WISDOM .AMINE

my name is abshir mohamed living in the kingdom of saudi arabia.
i would like to ask the world' what life worthes if death is after it.?

if i had to live for thousand years but death still challenges me what use would living for one thousand years be?

you may ask your self what the after life looks like.
but you have to believe it just like you were first in the womb of your mother and you never had any idea how the out side world looks like.
and when you came to this world why not to believe there is anohter mysery world out there which yet i havent discovered.

but that word does not need treasurs or money to be spent it needs rightouseness and good deeds

Actually the problem is that everyone here, take this personally. Our intention should be to have a productive discussion. We should realize the purpose of initiating this activity. We have to understand the truth. By “Did you really think that we created you in vain and that you would not return to Us?” (23:115). "أَفَحَسِبْتُمْ أَنَّمَا خَلَقْنَاكُمْ عَبَثًا وَأَنَّكُمْ إِلَيْنَا...

Allah has created us and everything around us and all this cannot be without any purpose. Instead of critisizing each other please try to understand the meaning of the verse. You can ask for clarification but dont just stick to one point and try to understand the reality.

Great posting, Hadia. I was browsing online for blogs and information on Islam, and I came across this.

After reading other recent posts and the comments on this page, it's striking to see how the basic messages that the author intended to send are disregarded completely at times. For example, this posting was on accountability of your actions on the Day of Judgment, and hardly any of the comments were related to this. Many were the same kind of repeated posts questioning Islam as a peaceful religion, asking who God really is, etc. All of this means that people are hungry for information on Islam, but are more hungry to read their own rantings and applaud themselves for their wit.

The best comment in response to all the other ones, not to the post, was made was made by Harith:

"People blame religion for the faults of man, regardless of the institution men are corrupt and will corrupt whatever institituion they belong too for there own gain its simple as that, we easily blame religion,race, and gender for our actions."

These are brilliant words said, and it doesn't matter whether he's a monotheist, pagan, or atheist.

Volume 8, Book 73, Number 135:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "The strong is not the one who overcomes the people by his strength, but the strong is the one who controls himself while in anger."

What is Islamic Terrorism and
How Could It Be Defeated?
by Syed Kamran Mirza

Syed_mirza@hotmail.com

"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." (Blaise Pascal, mathematician, 1670)

"It would be nave to ignore in Islam a deep thread of intolerance toward unbelievers."-Andrew Sullivan

What is Islamic terrorism?

Islamic terrorism is the divine duty of pure Muslims for which they feel proud instead of feeling remorse. Pure Muslims do not call it terrorism they only call it Islamic Jihad against the infidel West. Killing non-Muslims are sacred duty of every devout Muslim for which Allah repeatedly commanded (in Qur'an) and declared unlimited reward in the after life. Muslims those who read Qur'an and understand it well always believe in the Islamic 'global agenda' that Islam has a sacred and mandatory God given duty to spread Islamic message (Din-e-Islam) to all the inhabitants of the world. Wars in Iraq or Afghanistan have nothing to do with Islamic terrorism. In American soil 9/11 attacks did happen before Iraq or Afghanistan wars. Please don't forget that.

Islam is the only religion which divides the whole world into two spheres: Land of Warfare "Darul harb" (non-Islamic nations) and "Darul Islam" (Land of Peace), and encourages the Land of "Peace" to fight against the Land of Warfare until it is completely "subdued" and peace is established in the entire world. Islam is the only religion that largely forbids the free practice of other religions in its midst. Saudi Arabia, the cradle of Islam never allows religion other than Islam to practice in their land. Their ulterior motive is to convert and bring entire mankind under the fold of Islam, the "Only true religion of Allah." To this end-two main groups are working very hard. These two groups are: (a) Militant/radical Mullahs (whom we know as the terrorists), (b) Educated/elite Western residing true believing Muslims (Muslims belonging to the ummatic groups in the West such as: AMC, CAIR, ICNA, ISNA, NABIC etc). Here we can exclude gullible God fearing innocent Muslims (group-C), who do not read Qur'an and Sunnah). But because those gullible majority Muslims also believe in the same religion Islam and do not object to pray in congregations behind those militant mullahs-Islamic terrorists get tons of support from all Muslims.

Causes of Terrorism:

Purely and solely-the real motivation behind the terrorism (Islamic Jihad) is the teachings of Qur'an and Sunnah. Western politicians erroneously and perhaps ignorantly call it "evil or distorted ideology." This is absolutely wrong statement by the politically correct western politicians. That ideology is nothing but the ideology of pure Islam, which are the holy teachings of the Qur'an. Therefore, Qur'an and Sunnah (prophetic instructions) are the true foundations of Islamic terrorism. Palestinian problems, wars of Iraq and Afghanistan etc. are only a plea to wage Islamic Jihad. Poverty or frustrations are not the cause of terrorism, because poverty and frustrations also exists amongst millions of poor people from other religions. Will any poor Hindu or a Buddhist bother to commit suicide to kill innocent Westerners?

We know conversion to other religion is a common phenomenon throughout the world. Many people convert to Islam or Christianity. But only Muslim converts turn into terrorists or Taliban. The Western born terrorists like John Walker Lindh, Zachariah Moussawi, Jose Padilla or James Uzzama etc. were converts and happened to be very pure and devout Muslims. If these guys were converted to Hinduism or Buddhism, they would never be the terrorists.

Poisonous tonic will cause poisonous effect whoever drinks it. Should we not analyze the tonic to determine the harmful ingredients, which causes the poisonous effects? Or should we start blaming those drinkers (instead of the tonic) for the ill effect of the tonic?

Likewise, whoever reads Qur'an and try to follow with its literal (verbatim) meanings, immediately becomes a bad human being (terrorist) for the society and for the nations. Wherever and whenever Islamic Shariaat (Laws of Qur'an and Sunnah) is being imposed, human misery ensues immediately. Is it not the time to analyze to determine exactly what causes this misery? Or, should we keep on blaming those hapless people who only try to follow the Qur'an and Sunnah with its literal instruction? Time has arrived to identify the real enemy of the Western civilization.

Western intelligence must not overlook 'Mosques-Islamic centers-Madrashas' connections to all Islamic terrorists in 100% time of their terrorists operation and success. If those 'Mosques-Islamic centers-Madras' are the so-called radicalized Islam then what is the real Islam? It's true that all Muslims are not terrorists, but all terrorists are pure Muslims as per the Qur'an.

Quite obviously, the cause of Islamic fanaticism and zealotry is rooted in the Qur'an and Sunnah (Hadiths). Terrorists like Osama bin Laden and others are the victims of Qur'anic scriptural teachings. Here are some Qur'anic teachings (out of hundreds), which those devout Muslims swallow every day (five times) so passionately only to become brainwashed in the Mosques and Islamic centers for committing suicide bombings in the midst of innocent gatherings.

Quran-5:51- "O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other-.."

Quran-4:78: "Where ye are, death will find you, even if ye are in Towers, built up strong and tall" (Perhaps Twin towers was meant here?)

Quran-3:85, "If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good)."

Quran-9:29, Fight those who believe neither in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book (Christians and Jews), until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Lives of any human are precious and human beings definitely love their own life more than anything in the world. Nobody is ready to die or destroy his own life even for millions of dollars (except perhaps by Prophet Abraham). But a simple minded (otherwise a good man) but fanatically blind believer of religion Islam can eagerly give his life with a smile on his face. Why? Because he simply learned that if he dies for Islam, or killed others (infidels) for Islam-he will be given a sure suite in heavens of Allah, where he will enjoy plenty of hurries for unlimited sex, delicious foods forever and ever with no interruption, what so ever. This may sound silly to me or to any intelligent human being. But, this is the one and only truth to a blind-faith believer of the so-called holy book Qur'an, indeed! The Qur'an is the center of Jihadi inspiration.

It's a greatest lie to say that Qur'an prohibits suicide! That is the suicide (Qur'an referring) to kill one-self only for no good reason or out of frustrations. But to die (to kill the kaffirs) for the cause of Islam is mandatory good deeds for the believers, which has been directed 100 times with plenty of rewards in the Holy Qur'an.

In Amsterdam, Netherlands-Mohammed Bouyeri, the killer of filmmaker Theo Van Gogh confessed his guilt and showed no remorse for his dastardly act of Islamic slaughter. During court trial he made following remarks: "I don't feel your pain", he told the victim's mother. "Because I was driven by my religious conviction." He also said, "If I were released and would have the chance to do it again-I would do exactly the same thing." At one point he said to the victim's mother, "I have to admit I don't have sympathy for you. I can't feel for you because I think you are a non-believer."

How could we stop Islamic Terrorism?

Yes, Islamic terrorism could be stopped if the west be united and take the right measures. West must not weigh Islamic terrorism lightly. This is a more dangerous and deadlier phenomenon than communism. It took fifty years to defeat communism. But it may take only twenty years if the West takes the right course. But the menace may continue to grow if the West follows the fruitless policy of appeasing the Muslims, disseminating patronizing statements like: "Poisonous or perverted interpretation of peaceful Islam". Terrorists are not misinterpreting Islam; rather they are interpreting Islam very correctly. Islam is like cancer and Qur'an is the carcinogen, which causes cancer. We must know our enemy. We must fight the cause and not the symptoms. Unless scientists can subdue the HIV virus, the cause of AIDS, scientists can never control AIDS.

Spending billions of dollars in strong security or democratization tactics will not help. Sweet appeasing talks also will do no good. Almost 80% of world Muslims does support Osama's ideology in their hearts. They only talk false sympathy in front of Westerners to please Western govt. But when inside their house, they sympathize with those suicide bombers very much. In every suicide bombings when Western cities are in chaos, peoples die, and Western economy is in shambles-most Muslims all over the world gloat in their hearts.

The West must remember that as of now-no Islamic government, or any famous Islamic Imams or Mullahs have ever issued fatwa condemning Osama's barrage of suicide bombings. Just for writing a controversial novel Salman Rushdie was sentenced to death. As of now no Muslim country sentenced Osama to death. We must ask ourselves why?

Best way to solve Islamic terrorism:

Supreme enemy Islamic Arab imperialistic ideology must be fought in three fronts:

A. Enemy must be defeated with iron fist by waging all out war against Islamic terrorists all over the world. The West (Europe and America) must be united and declare war against Islamists. President Bush must issue personal letters to all government heads of Muslim world to cooperate, or face economic embargo. The West must ask all Muslim Governments to cooperate honestly and actively by issuing fatwa's against terrorists. It's not enough to say, "We despise terrorism", but must act to stop this madness by strongly disassociating with the Islamists, isolating them, arresting them, and imprisoning them without any mercy. All governments of the Muslim world must impose a strict ban on all Madrashas (religious schools) and terrorist organization formed by Islamic mullahs.

B. All Muslims living in the Muslim nations must condemn terrorists and they must stop any association with those Mullahs and Islamic Imams who condone Islamic terrorism. They must not pray behind those Imams/mullahs who incite Islamic hatreds, and they must isolate them socially and politically. All Western living gullible Muslims must cooperate with the Western intelligence (like FBI, CIA) and provide them all sorts of information about militant Muslim's activity. Or face the backlash of host country.

C. The West must fight the Islam ideologically. That is the West must form a multi-national committee to investigate, scrutinize, and extract the poisonous teachings of Qur'an, which do transform a simple young human into a monster. Those scholars must find out what those Muslim mullahs/Imams teach young Muslim students in the Madrashas and other religious schools all over the world. Their findings must be submitted to the governments and published in the newspapers. Open criticisms and debates of Qur'an and Islam must be permitted by all nations.

I am positive, within 10/20 years Islamic suicide bomber's madness will be evaporated for good. If we fail to take positive actions narrated above-our civilization will perish. Killing some terrorists, arresting and killing Osama bin Laden or spending billions of dollars to establish democracy in the Middle East will solve nothing. Because, to solve the terrorist problem, we must destroy the ultimate machine (Islam), which do create terrorists.

good morning starshines-

im off to watch the total lunar eclispse then it's pre-dawn prayers for me and mine-

love and peace to all

To: Hadia,

You have given some good verses from Koran to bluff people that Islam is peace! Below I am giving you hundreds of hateful, oppressive and killing verses from the same Koran. All the Islamic terrorists are incited and emboldened by these verses from Koran. What you have to say about these verses below?

Quran’s Teachings:
(Compiled by: Dr. Ali Sina: 2001)

What is the inspiration behind the hate and violence in Islamic terrorism?

The following is the essence of the message of the Quran, the rest are fairy tales and stories by some hypocritical Muslims.
Quran Surah 2: The Cow
1. Don't bother to warn the disbelievers. Allah has blinded them. Theirs will be an awful doom. 6
2. Allah has sickened their hearts. A painful doom is theirs because they lie. 10
3. A fire has been prepared for the disbelievers, whose fuel is men and stones. 24
4. Disbelievers will be burned with fire. 39, 90
5. For disbelievers is a painful doom. 104
6. For unbelievers: ignominy in this world, an awful doom in the next. 114
7. Allah will leave the disbelievers alone for a while, but then he will compel them to the doom of Fire. 126
8. The doom of the disbelievers will not be lightened. 162
9. They will not emerge from the Fire. 167
10. Those who hide the Scripture will have their bellies eaten with fire. Theirs will be a painful doom. 174
11. How constant are they in their strife to reach the Fire! 175
12. Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. 191
13. War is ordained by Allah. 216
14. Those who die in their disbelief will burn forever in the Fire. 217
15. Disbelievers worship false gods. The will burn forever in the Fire. 257
16. Allah does not guide disbelievers. 264
17. "Give us victory over the disbelieving folk." 286

Quran Surah 3: The Family Of 'Imran
1. Those who disbelieve the revelations of Allah, theirs will be a heavy doom. 4
2. Those who disbelieve will be fuel for the Fire. 10
3. Those who disbelieve shall be overcome and gathered unto Hell. 12
4. Those who disbelieve, promise them a painful doom. 21
5. Theirs will be a painful doom. 77
6. All non-Muslims will be rejected by Allah after they die. 85
7. Disbelievers will have a painful doom. And they will have no helpers. 91
8. Disbelievers will have their faces blackened on the last day. They will face an awful doom. 105-6
9. Those who disbelieve will be burnt in the Fire. 116
10. The Fire is prepared for disbelievers. 131
11. We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Their habitation is the Fire 151
12. Theirs will be an awful doom. 176
13. Disbelievers do not harm Allah, but will have a painful doom. 177
14. Disbelievers will have a shamful doom. 178
15. Disbelievers will go to Hell. 196

Quran Surah 4: Women
1. Those who disobey Allah and his messenger will be burnt with fire and suffer a painful doom. 14
2. For the disbelievers, We have prepared a painful doom. 18
3. For disbelievers, We prepare a shameful doom. 37
4. Hell is sufficient for their burning. 55
5. Unbelievers will be tormented forever with fire. When their skin is burned off, a fresh skin will be provided. 56
6. Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars. 74
7. Believers fight for Allah; disbelievers fight for the devil. So fight the minions of the devil. 76
8. Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. 89
9. If the unbelievers do not offer you peace, kill them wherever you find them. Against such you are given clear warrant. 91 ( Offering peace in Islam means surrendering. All 67 out of 68 wars of Muhammad were offensive, not defensive. The one defensive war, 'ditch' was not fought. That is why the Islamic terrorism 'jihad' will continue until the West "offers peace". This was made clear by Bin Laden.)
10. Those who oppose the messenger and become unbelievers will go to hell. 115
11. Those who believe, then disbelieve, then believe and disbelieve again will never be forgiven by Allah. 137
12. For the hypocrites there will be a painful doom. 138
13. Allah will gather hypocrites and disbelievers into hell. 140
14. The hypocrites will be in the lowest part of hell and no one will help them there. 145
15. You must believe everything Allah and his messengers tell you. Those who don't are disbelievers and will face a painful doom. 150-151
16. For the disbelievers, Allah has prepared a painful doom. 161
17. God will guide disbelievers down a road that leads to everlasting hell. 168-169

Quran Surah 5: The Table Spread
1. Those who deny Islam will be losers in the Hereafter. 5
2. Disbelievers are the rightful owners of Hell. 10
3. Those who make war with Allah and his messenger will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. That is how they will be treated in this world, and in the next they will have an awful doom. 33 (Anyone who resist Islam is deemed to be making war with Allah)
4. Disbelievers will have a painful doom. 36
5. Disbelievers will want to come out of the Fire, but will not. Their will be a lasting doom. 37
6. Life for life, eye for eye, nose for nose, ear for ear, and tooth for tooth. Non-muslims are wrong doers. 45
7. Christians will be burned in the Fire. 72
8. Christians are wrong about the Trinity. For that they will have a painful doom. 73
9. Disbelievers will be owners of hell-fire. 86

Quran Surah 6: The Cattle
1. Many generations have been destroyed by Allah. 6
2. Allah will torment those how deny his revelations. 49
3. Those who disbelieve will be forced to drink boiling water, and will face a painful doom. 70
4. When nonbelievers die, the angels will deliver to them doom and degradation. 93
5. Allah chooses to lead some astray, and he lays ignominy on those who disbelieve. 125
6. Allah will send everyone the Fire, except those he chooses to deliver. 128

Quran Surah 7: The Heights
1. How many a township have We destroyed! As a raid by night, or while they slept at noon, Our terror came unto them. 4-5
2. Allah has made devils the protecting friends of disbeliveers. 27
3. Disbelievers choose devils as protecting friends and believe they are rightly guided. 30
4. Only believers go to heaven. 32
5. Disbelievers are the rightful owners of the Fire. 36
6. Entire nations have entered the Fire. Some get a double torment. 38
7. Disbelievers will be excluded from heaven. Theirs will be a bed of hell. 40-41
8. Those in the Fire will cry out to those in heaven, saying: "Pour water on us." But Allah has forbidden that to disbelievers. 50
9. Those who deny Muhammad's revelation are evil. 177

Quran Surah 8: The Spoils of War
1. Allah will throw fear into the hearts of the disbelievers, and smite their necks and fingers. 12
2. Disbelievers will be tormented in the Fire. 14
3. When you fight with disbelievers, do not retreat. Those who do will go to hell. 15-16
4. Taste of the doom because ye disbelieve. 35
5. Those who disbelieve will be gathered into hell. 36
6. The angels smite the face and backs of disbelievers, saying: "Taste the punishment of burning!" 50
7. The worst beasts in Allah's sight are the disbelievers. 55
8. Exhort the believers to fight. They will win easily, because disbelievers are without intelligence. 65
9. A prophet may not take captives until he has made a slaughter in the land. 67

Surah 9: Repentance
1. Give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom to those who disbelieve. 3
2. Slay the idolaters wherever you find them. 5
3. Don't let idolaters tend the sanctuaries. Their works are in vain and they will be burned in the Fire. 17
4. Give tiding of a painful doom to Christians and Jews. 34
5. If you refuse to fight, Allah will afflict you with a painful doom. 39
6. Disbelievers go to hell. 49
7. Those who vex the Prophet, for them there is a painful doom. 60
8. Those who oppose Allah and His messenger will burn in the fire of hell. 63
9. Allah promises hypocrites and disbelievers the fire of hell. Allah curses them. They will have a lasting torment. 68
10. Fight the disbelievers and hypocrites. Be harsh with them. They are all going to hell anyway. 73
11. Allah will afflict disbelievers with a painful doom in this world and the Hereafter. 74
12. For disbelievers there will be a painful doom. 90
13. Don't pray for idolaters (not even for your family) after it is clear they are people of hell-fire. 113
14. Fight disbelievers who are near you, and let them see the harshness in you. 123

Quran Surah 10: Jonah
1. Disbelievers will have a boiling drink and a painful doom. 4
2. Those who neglect Allah's revelations will make their home in the Fire. 7-8
3. Allah has destoyed entire generations. 13
4. Those who disbelieved will face a dreadful doom. 70
5. Allah drowned those who disbelieved his revelations. 73
6. Moses asked Allah to harden the hearts of the Egyptians so that they would not believe until they saw the painful doom. 88

Quran Surah 11: Hud
1. Disbelievers wil1 end up in the Fire. 17
2. Those who oppose Islam and disbelieve in the Hereafter are guilty of the greatest wrong. 18-19
3. Those in the Fire will suffer as long as the heavens and earth endure. 106-7
4. Allah will fill hell with humans and jinn. 119

Quran Surah 13: The Thunder
1. Disbelievers are the rightful owners of the Fire 5
2. Allah does not hear the prayer of disbelievers. 14
3. Those who do not answer Allah's call will go to hell. 18
4. Disbelievers will be tormented in this life, and suffer even more pain in the Hereafter. 33-34
5. The reward for disbelievers is the Fire. 35

Quran Surah 14: Abraham
1. Woe unto the disbelievers. Theirs will be an awful doom. 2
2. Allah sends some people astray. 4
3. Those who are in hell will be forced to drink festering water which they can hardly swallow. They will want to die, but they will not be able to. Theirs is a harsh doom. 16-17
4. Allah sends wrong-doers astray. He does whatever he likes. 27
5. Those in hell will be chained together. Their clothing will be made of pitch and fire will cover their faces. 49-50

Quran Surah 15: The Rock
1. Let the disbelievers enjoy life and let false hope beguile them. They will come to know! 2-3
2. Iblis will lead humans astray. Only perfect Muslims will be safe from him. The rest will go to hell. 39-43
3. Allah's doom is a dolorous doom. 50

Quran Surah 16: The Bee
1. Allah could have led everyone to the truth, but he chose not to. 9
2. Those who don't believe in the Hearafter are proud. 22
3. Disbelievers are evil and will dwell in hell forever. 27-29
4. Disbelievers are liars. 39
5. Allah will add doom to doom for those who disbelieve. 88
6. Those who oppose Islam will face an awful doom. 94

Quran Surah 17: The Children of Israel
1. Allah made hell to be a dungeon for disbelievers. 8
2. Allah has prepared a painful doom for those who disbelieve in the Hereafter. 10
3. Allah destroyed entire towns. 16
4. How many generations Allah has destroyed since Noah! 17
5. Allah intends to burn people in hell. 18
6. Allah makes it so that unbelievers cannot understand. 45-46
7. Allah will destroy every town before the Day of Resurrection. 58
8. Allah will send disbelievers astray. Then he'll burn them in hell, increasing the flames from time to time. 97-98

Quran Surah 18: The Cave
1. Allah has prepared a Fire for the disbelievers. When they want a shower, Allah will give them a shower of molten lead to burn their faces. 29
2. Those who are condemned to the Fire know they will have no way to escape. 53
3. The worst wrong is to forget Allah's revelations. Allah covers their hearts and makes them deaf so that they will never believe the truth. 57
4. There is an appointed time in which the doomed will find no escape. 58
5. Allah has destroyed many towns. 59
6. On a certain day, Allah will present hell, in plain view, to the disbelievers. 100
7. Allah will welcome the disbelievers into hell. 102
8. Hell is the reward for disbelievers because they made a jest of Allah's revelations and messengers. 106

Quran Surah 19: Mary
1. Allah will pluck out from every sect those who should burn in hell. 69-70
2. Allah will record what disbelievers say and then prolong their torment. 77-79
3. Allah has sent the devils on the disbelievers to confuse them. 83
4. Allah has destroyed many generations. 98

Quran Surah 20: Ta Ha
1. Those who do not believe Allah's revelations will face doom in the Hereafter. 127
2. Allah has destroyed many generations. 128

Quran Surah 21: The Prophets
1. Allah destroyed entire towns, yet the people still disbelieved. 6
2. The people cried out for mercy, but Allah killed them anyway. 15
3. Disbelievers will not be able to put out the fire on their faces and backs. They will be stupefied and no one will help them. 39-40
4. Allah gave judgment and knowledge to Lot . He was a righteous man. (Genesis 19:7-38) 75
5. Every person alive at the time of the flood was evil. So Allah drowned them all. 77
6. The disbelievers will stare in terror at what Allah has in store for them. 97-99

Surah 22: The Pilgrimage
1. The devil will guide some to the punishment of the Flame. 3-4
2. Those who turn from the way of Allah will face ignominy in this world and burning in the next. 9
3. Whoever thinks that Allah will not give Muhammad victory should go hang himself. 15
4. Disbelievers will wear garments of fire, boiling fluid will be poured on their heads, their bellies and skin will be melted, they will be tormented with iron hooks, and when they try to escape they will be driven back with the taunt: Taste the doom of burning. 19-22
5. Allah will provide the disbelievers with a painful doom. 25
6. How many towns Allah has destroyed! 45
7. Those who disregard Allah's revelations are the owners of the Fire. 51
8. Those who disbelieve Allah's revelations will have a shameful doom. 57
9. Those who disbelieve Allah's revelations will burn in the Fire. 72

Quran Surah 23: The Believers
1. Allah told Noah not to bother pleading for the people he was about to drown. 27
2. Those who don't believe in the Hereafter will receive extreme punishment from Allah. 74-77
3. When fire burns their faces, they will be glum. 104
4. Disbelievers will not be successful. 117

Surah 24: The Light
1. Scourge adulterers and adulteresses with 100 stripes. Do not show them any pity. Have a party of believers watch the punishment. 2
2. Only adulterers can marry adulteresses. Believers are not to marry them. 3
3. Vile women are for vile men, and vile men for vile women. 26
4. Believing women must lower their gaze and be modest, cover themselves with veils, and not reveal themselves except to their husbands, relatives, children, and slaves. 31
5. Disbelievers are miscreants. 55
6. Disbelievers will never escape the Fire that will be their home. 57
7. It's okay for believers to own slaves. 58
8. The only true believers are those who believe in Allah and his messenger. 62

Quran Surah 25: The Criterion
1. Those who deny the coming of the Hour will be chained together and burned with fire. They will pray for their own destruction. 11-13
2. Allah will force the evil-doers to taste great torment. 19
3. It will be a hard day for disbelievers and wrong-doers. They will gnaw on their hands and wish they had chosen Islam. 26-27
4. Those who deny Muhammad's revelations will be destroyed. 36
5. Allah drowned everyone in the flood of Noah, and has prepared a painful doom for evil-doers. 37

Quran Surah 26: The Poets
1. Allah destroyed the people in Lot 's town with a dreadful rain. 172-3
2. Many will not believe until they see the painful doom. 201
3. Those who believe in another god are doomed. 213

Quran Surah 27: The Ant
1. Allah leads those who do not believe in the Hereafter astray by making things work out OK in this life, so that he can torment them forever in the next. They will get the worst punishment and will be the greatest losers. 4-5
2. "Allah destroyed them and their people, every one." 51
3. But he "saved those who believed." 53
4. Allah sent a dreadful rain on "those who stayed behind." 58
5. Whoever does something wrong will be thrown into the Fire. 90

Quran Surah 28: The Narrative
1. Allah has completely destroyed many communities. 58
2. Allah will taunt Christians on the day of their doom, saying: Where are My partners whom ye imagined? 62-64
3. Allah caused the earth to swallow Korah. 79-81
4. Never help disbelievers. 86 (Can Muslims in countries ruled in by non-Muslims be loyal to their country?)

Quran Surah 29: The Spider
1. Those who disbelieve in the revelations of Allah have no hope of mercy. For such there is a painful doom. 23
2. Only wrong-doers deny the revelations of Allah. 49
3. Those who disbelieve in the revelations of Allah are the losers. 52
4. The doom of hell will come upon disbelievers suddenly, when they least expect it. 53-55

Quran Surah 30: The Romans
1. Allah will tear Christians apart for ascribing partners to him. 13-14
2. Disbelievers will be brought to doom. 16
3. It's OK to own slaves. 28
4. Allah does not love disbelievers. 45
5. Allah seals the heart of disbelievers. (And then he burns them in the Fire.) 59

Quran Surah 31: Luqman
1. Those who mislead others from Allah's way and mock Islam will have a painful doom. 6-7
2. Allah will give disbelievers a little comfort for a little while, and then he'll torment them forever with a heavy doom. 23-24

Quran Surah 32: The Prostration
1. Allah will fill hell with the jinn and mankind together. 13
2. Allah: Taste the doom of immortality because of what ye used to do. 14
3. Those who used to deny the Fire will be tormented in it forever. 20
4. The worst thing you can do is to deny the revelations of Allah. 22

Quran Surah 33: The Clans
1. Don't obey disbelievers. 1 (Can Muslims in countries ruled in by non-Muslims be loyal to their country?)
2. Allah makes the deeds of unbelievers fruitless. 19
3. Allah cast panic into the hearts of the disbelievers. He killed some, and enslaved others. 25-26
4. Allah gave Zeyd’s wife, his own daughter in law to Muhammad in marriage. This was so that all Muslims would know that it's OK to marry your adopted son's ex-wife. 37
5. Ignore disbelievers and their poisonous talk. 48
6. It's OK to own slaves. 50
7. Allah says it is lawful for Muhammad to marry any women he wants. 50-51
8. It's OK to own slaves. 55
9. Those who malign Allah, Muhammad, and Muslims will be cursed by Allah in this life and with doom in the Hereafter. 57
10. Those who oppose Islam will be slain with a fierce slaughter. 60-61
11. Allah has cursed the disbelievers, and has prepared for them a flaming fire, wherein they will abide forever. 64-65
12. The disbelievers will be burned in the Fire with a double torment. 66-68

Quran Surah 34: Saba
1. Those who challenge the revelations of Muhammad will have a painful doom. 5
2. Those who disbelieve in the Hereafter will be tormented. 8
3. But some of the jinn Allah burned with flaming Fire. 12
4. Those who strive against Allah's revelations will be brought to the doom. 38
5. Those who worshipped the jinn will taste the doom of the Fire. 41
6. Allah hates those who ignore his messengers. 45
7. Those who are cast into hell be terrified when they see that they have no escape. Then they will believe. But it will be too late. 51-52

Quran Surah 35: The Angels
1. Those who disbelieve will have an awful doom. 7
2. Allah sends whoever he wants astray. 8
3. Allah hates disbelievers. 26
4. Disbelievers will burn forever in the fire of hell. Allah will keep them alive so that he can torture them forever. When they repent and ask for mercy, he will ignore them. 36-7
5. He who disbelieves, his disbelief will be on his own head. 39
6. Allah has blinded the disbelievers so that they cannot see the truth. So it don't bother warning them.
7.

Quran Surah 36: Ya Sin
8. They will go to hell anyway. 8-10
9. Allah has destroyed many entire generations. 31
10. If Allah feels like it, he will drown everyone. 43
11. Allah will burn the disbelievers in hell. 63-4

Quran Surah 37: Those Who Set The Ranks
1. Those who refuse to believe in Muhammad's revelations will face a painful doom. 31-38
2. Those in hell must eat from a tree with the heads of devils, and then drink boiling water. After that they return to hell. 62-68
3. Allah drowned everyone except Noah and his family in the flood. 82
4. Allah tells Abraham in a dream to sacrifice his son. (But is the son Ishmael or Isaac?) 102
5. Allah killed everyone in Sodom except for Lot and his family. 136
6. No one is against Allah, except those who burn in hell. 162-3
Quran Surah 38: Sad
1. Allah has destroyed many generations. 3
2. Those who doubt will soon taste Allah's doom. 8
3. Those who deny the messengers deserve doom. 14
4. Those who wander from the way of Allah will have an awful doom. 26
5. Those who disbelieve will burn in the Fire. 27
6. The transgressors will roast in the Fire and be forced to drink boiling liquids followed by ice cold drinks. 55-9
7. Iblis asks Allah to let him hang around and mislead humans. Allah allows him to do so, and Iblis leads all humans to hell except for the single-minded slaves. Allah agrees, and plans to fill hell with Iblis and his followers. 79-85

Quran Surah 39: The Troops
1. Tell the disbelievers to enjoy themselves now, because later they will be owners of the Fire. 8
2. The losers will be those who lose themselves and their families on the Day of Resurrection. They will be surrounded by fire. 15-16
3. No one will be able to help those that Allah torments in the Fire. 19
4. Woe unto those who forget Allah. They are in plain error. 22
5. Allah sends some people astray. For them there is no guide. 23
6. The worst thing you can do is tell a lie against Allah. The home of disbelievers is hell. 32
7. Allah sends some people astray. For them there is no guide. 36
8. Surrender to Allah before he sends the doom upon you suddenly. 54-55
9. Those who lie about Allah will be sent to hell and will have their faces blackened. 60
10. Losers are those who disbelieve the revelations of Allah. 63
11. Those ascribe a partner to Allah (like the Christians) will be among the losers. 65
12. Those who disbelieve will be driven into hell. 71-72

Quran Surah 40: The Believer
1. Allah sent an awful punishment at the time of Noah. 5
2. Those who disbelieve are the owners of the Fire. 6
3. Allah greatly abhors those who disbelieve. 10
4. When the doom comes, the hearts of the doomed will choke in their throats, and no one will help them. 18
5. Those who ignore Allah's "clear proofs" will be seized and punished severely. 22
6. Those that Allah sends astray will have no helper or guide. 33
7. Allah deceives those who doubt. 34
8. The prodigals will be owners of the Fire. 43
9. The doomed will be exposed to the Fire morning and evening. 46
10. Those in hell will beg to be relieved from the Fire's torment for just a day. But the prayer of a disbeliever is in vain. 49-50
11. Those who bicker about Allah's revelations are filled with pride. 56
12. Those who scorn Allah will go to hell. 60
13. Those who deny the revelations of Allah are perverted. 63
14. Those who deny the Scripture and Allah's messengers will be dragged through boiling water and thrust into the Fire. 70-72
15. Allah will taunt the Christians in hell, saying: Where are all my partners that you used to believe in? 73
16. Thus does Allah send astray the disbelievers (in his guidance). 74
17. Those who scorn will go to hell. 76
18. When they see Allah's doom they will believe in Allah. But their faith will not save them. The disbelievers will be ruined. 84-85

Quran Surah 41: Fusilat
1. Woe unto the idolaters who disbelieve in the Hereafter. 6
2. Allah will make life miserable for those who deny his revelations and then he will torment them forever in the Hereafter. And they will not be helped. 15-16
3. The enemies of Allah will be gathered into the Fire where their skin, ears, and eyes will testify against them. 19-20
4. Allah will make those who disbelieve taste an awful doom. Their immortal home will be the Fire, since they denied Allah's revelations. 27-28
5. Those who disbelieve will taste hard punishment. 50

Quran Surah 42: The Counsel
1. While some lounge in the Garden, others will roast in the Flame. 7
2. Those who argue about Allah will have his wrath upon them. Theirs will be an awful doom. 16
3. Allah sometimes kills people for misbehaving. 34
4. Allah sends some people astray and then punishes them for it by burning them in the Fire. 44-46
5. Allah makes some people barren. (Whenever he feels like it.) 50

Quran Surah 43: Ornaments of God
1. When the Egyptians angered Allah, he drowned them all. 55
2. Those who argue and do wrong will have a painful doom that will come upon them suddenly. 65-66
3. The guilty are tormented forever in hell. Allah will not relax their punishment. 74-75

Quran Surah 44: Smoke
1. Those in torment will claim to believe and ask Allah for relief. But he will refuse since they will return to their disbelief. 11-16
2. Those in hell must eat from a tree like molten brass that burns their bellies. Then boiling water will be poured on their heads. 43-48

Quran Surah 45: Crouching
1. Those who hear and reject Allah's revelations are sinful liars. Give them tidings of a painful doom. 7-8
2. Those who joke about Allah's revelations will go to hell. Theirs will be an awful doom. 9-10
3. Those who disbelieve in Allah's revelations will have a painful doom of wrath. 11
4. Allah sends some people astray, making it impossible for them to hear or see. 23
5. Those who disbelieve are guilty folk. 31

Quran Surah 46: The Wind-Curved Sandals
1. Disbelievers will be rewarded with the ignominious doom of the Fire. 20
2. The guilty will face a wind with a painful torment. 25
3. Allah has destroyed entire towns. 27
4. Allah will taunt the disbelievers that he torments in the fire, saying: "Taste the doom for that ye disbelieved." 34

Quran Surah 47: Muhammad
1. Allah makes the works of disbelievers vain. 1
2. Those who disbelieve follow falsehood. 3
3. Smite the necks of the disbelievers whenever you fight against them. Those who die fighting for Allah will be rewarded. 4
4. Allah will damn the disbelievers and make all their actions fruitless. 8-9
5. Disbelievers may eat and be happy now, but the Fire will be their final home. 12
6. Those in the Garden will drink delicious wine, while those in the Fire will drink boiling water that will tear apart their intestines. 15
7. Allah curses people by making them deaf and blind. 23
8. Angels will gather them together and smite their faces and backs. 27
9. Allah will make the actions those who disbelieve fruitless. 32
10. Those who disbelieve will never be pardoned by Allah. 34-35

Quran Surah 48: Victory
1. Those who think an evil thought concerning Allah will be cursed and sent to hell by him. 6
2. Allah has prepared a flame for the disbelievers. 13
3. If you refuse to fight for Allah, he will punish you with a painful doom. 16-17
4. But if you're willing to fight for Allah, he will provide you with lots of booty. 19-20
5. Allah punished those who disbelieved with a painful punishment. 25
6. Those with Muhammad are ruthless toward disbelievers and merciful toward themselves. 29

Quran Surah 49: The Private Apartments
1. Do not lift your voice when in Muhammad's presence. Those who subdue their voices are righteous and will receive an immense reward from Allah. 1-3

Quran Surah 50: Oaf
1. Allah has destroyed many entire generations. 36

Quran Surah 51: The Winnowing Winds
1. Accursed are the conjecturers who ask: When is the Day of Judgment? It is the day they will be tormented by the Fire. 10-14
2. Woe to the disbelievers. 60

Quran Surah 52: The Mount
1. Those who deny the existence of hell will be thrust into its Fire. 11-16
2. Those who disbelieve are trapped. 42

Quran Surah 54: The Moon
1. Allah sent a storm of stones on Lot's folk, killing all but Lot 's family. 34
2. The suffering in hell will be more wretched and bitter than anything experienced on earth. 46-48
3. Allah destroyed many people, but does anyone remember anymore? 51

Quran Surah 55: The Beneficent
1. The guilty deny hell. But after they die they go circling between it and fierce, boiling water. 43-44

Quran Surah 56: The Event
1. But those on his left hand will face scorching wind, scalding water, and black smoke. 42-43
2. Those who deny Allah and the Hereafter will eat from the Zaqqum tree and drink boiling water. 51-54
3. Allah will welcome the rejecters and erring with boiling water and a roasting in the hell fire. 92-94

Quran Surah 57: Iron
1. The home of disbelievers is the Fire, a hapless journey's end. 15
2. Those who disbelieve and deny Allah's revelations are the owners of the fire. 19

Quran Surah 58: She That Disputeth
1. For disbelievers is a painful doom. 4
2. For disbelievers is a shameful doom. 5
3. Don't make friends with Allah's enemies. For those who do so, Allah has prepared a dreadful doom. 14-15
4. Those who turn others away from the way of Allah will have a shameful doom. They are rightful owners of the Fire. 16-17
5. Those who oppose Allah and His Messenger will be among the lowest. 20
6. On the Last Day good Muslims will not love their non-Muslim friends and family members, not even their fathers, sons, or brothers (or their mothers, daughters, or sisters). 22

Quran Surah 59: Exile
1. Allah cast fear into the hearts of the disbelieving People of the Scripture. Their home in the Hereafter will be the Fire. 2-3
2. The disbelieving people of the Scripture are liars. 11
3. The devil and disbelievers will be in the Fire. 16-17
4. The owners of the Garden and the owners of the Fire are not equal. 20

Quran Surah 60: She That is to be Examined
1. Don't be friends with disbelievers. They are your (and Allah's) enemy. 1
2. Don't be friends with those who have warred against you because of religion. Whoever makes friends with them is a wrong-doer. 9
3. Don't be friends with those who disbelieve in the Hereafter. They are Allah's enemies. 13

Quran Surah 61: The Ranks
1. Allah loves those who fight for him. 4
2. Allah leads some people astray. 5
3. The worst thing you can do is tell a lie about Allah. 7

Quran Surah 62: The Congregation
1. A hypocritical Jew looks like an ass carrying books. Those who deny the revelations of Allah are ugly. 5

Quran Surah 63: The Hypocrites
1. Allah seals the hearts of those who believe and then disbelieve so that they can understand nothing. 3
2. Disbelievers are perverted. They are the enemy, confounded by Allah. 4
3. Don't bother to ask Allah to forgive the disbelievers. He will never forgive them. 6

Quran Surah 64: Mutual Disillusion
1. Those who disbelieve will have a painful doom. 5
2. Those who disbelieve are the owners of the Fire. 10

Quran Surah 66: Banning
1. Muhammad's wives need to be careful. If they criticize their husband, Allah will replace them with better ones. 5
2. The fuel of the Fire is men and stones. 6
3. Be stern with disbelievers. They are going to Hell anyway. 9
4. The wives of Noah and Lot (who were both righteous) betrayed their husbands and are now in the Fire. 10
Quran Surah67: The Sovereignty
1. Disbelievers will go to hell where they will hear its roaring and boiling. 6-7
2. Who will protect the disbelievers from a painful doom? (Nobody) 28

Quran Surah 69: The Reality
1. Those who do not believe in Allah will be chained up and cast into hell-fire where they will eat filth. 30-35

Quran Surah 71: Noah
1. Those that Allah drowned in Noah's flood were then tortured forever in the Fire. 25
2. Noah asked Allah to drown all the disbelievers. 26

Quran Surah 72: The Jinn
1. The fires of hell will be fueled with the bodies of idolators and unbelievers. They will experience an ever-greater torment. 15-17
2. Those who disobey Allah and his messenger will dwell forever in the fire of hell. 23

Quran Surah 73: The Enshrouded One
1. Allah will take care of the deniers. He will tie them up, burn them in a raging fire, and feed them food that chokes them. 11-13

Quran Surah 74: The Cloaked One
1. The last day will be a day of anguish for disbelievers. 9-10
2. Those who are stubborn to Allah's revelations will face a fearful doom. 16-17
3. The fire of hell shrivels humans and spares nothing. 27-29
4. Allah has appointed angels to tend the Fire and has prepared stumbling blocks for those who disbelieve. He sends some people (whoever he wants) astray. 31
5. Allah is the font of fear. 56

Quran Surah 76: "Time" or "Man"
1. Allah has prepared chains, manacles, and a raging fire for the disbelievers. 4
2. Don't obey disbelievers. 24

Quran Surah 77: The Emissaries
1. Allah destroyed "the former folk." 16
2. Woe unto the repudiators on that day! 19, 24, 28, 34, 40, 45, 49

Quran Surah 79: "Those Who Drag Forth"
Those who rebel will go to hell. 37-39

Quran Surah 80: "He Frowned"
1. Disbelievers are wicked people. On the last day they will be in darkness and have dust on their faces. 40-42

Quran Surah 82: The Cleaving
1. The wicked will burn in hell forever. 82

Quran Surah 84: The Sundering
1. Some folks will be thrown into a scorching fire. 11-12
2. Disbelievers will be given a painful doom. 22-24

Quran Surah 87: The Most High
1. Those who are flung into the great Fire will neither live nor die. 12-13

Quran Surah 88: The Overwhelming
1. On that day many will be sad and weary. Scorched by the fire, drinking boiling water, with only bitter thorn-fruit to eat. 2-7
2. Allah will punish disbelievers with the direst punishment. 23-24

Quran Surah 89: The Dawn
1. Allah poured on them the disaster of His punishment. 13

Quran Surah 90: The City
1. Those who disbelieve Allah's revelations will have the Fire placed over them like an awning. 19-20

Quran Surah92: The Night
1. Those who deny Allah's revelations must endure the flaming fire. 14-16

Syed K. Mirza

the more i read ms mubarak's comments, the more i like them.

its not even really a muslim message so much as a human and universal one-
who has not pondered the futility of this journey if there is no destination?
as far as i know, all religions share a concept of personal accountability-
pagan and wiccan included-
the concept of being a giving force- of having a positive balance of nes deeds is not exactly islam-specific.
actually, i cannot think of one sngle religion that does not have this idea-
perhaps someone could enlighten me-
i dont mean personally constructed concepts- but religious ideologies-

anyway- butterfly spirit is right-

if there is hatred and anger in a soul it will find ways to act that out, and those ways always involve a LACK of taking personal responsibility-
of blaming any person or ideology or circumstance or religion in their scope-

loving and kind hearts resonate to the universality of others like them, no matter what their outward creed-

its all just like clothing anyway, isnt it?

peace people

lepidopteryx wrote:
Based on my personal interactions with Muslims, I'd say you're confusing religion with theocracy, especially in the Lina Joy case.
Is it actually Islam that says she can't convert? Or is it the government that says she can't change the religious designation on her identification?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/6703155.stm

Lina Joy's case was decided by the sharia courts of malaysia, the only reason she is not punished for publically declaring her apostasy is because the malay government is trying to project a moderate islamic state image. It is not Osama bin laden or some rogue imam who made this decision but the islamic scholar's of malaysia.

lepidopteryx wrote:
For the record, none of my Muslim friend has ever referred to me as an infidel, not one has ever made an attempt on my life, and there have been no car bombs exploded in front of my home.

You probably do not live in countries like pakistan, saudi, jordan, egypt, iran etc where dhimmi based discrimination is a part of everyday life.

lepidopteryx wrote:
So I don't think Islam is the problem with Middle Eastern terrorism, any more than Christianity is the problem with Fred Phelps. Twisted people try to use their gods as a cover for perverse behavior.

Muslims are not twisted but it is their faith that is twisted. It the perverse Allah and his demented prophet that is responsible for the behaviour of the terrorists.

holy cannoli paganplace, relax- no one is trying to impose anything on you- just pointing out that muslims have a right to speak to their own religion without-

i honestly dont care what you post one way or the other-

i just think you go overboard, thats all

theres no compulsion in islam-

sorry if that annoys you, but thats that.

me thinks thou doth protest too much

And, in fact, Victoria, my hypothetical 'How would you like it if I said this' post to Commentator is a simple transposition of some 'Pagan' names onto how a lot of things said by many Muslims and Christians sounds to others.

Apparently, you didn't like it, one bit ...enough so that you didn't pay attention to the context and my assurances I don't actually think that way.

So why do you reflexively defend Muslims doing it to others in the first place?

I have enough *interfaith respect* to expect Muslims are capable of rational discourse on different perspectives... without resorting to such behavior as Commentator showed.

Ross:

Based on my personal interactions with Muslims, I'd say you're confusing religion with theocracy, especially in the Lina Joy case.

Is it actually Islam that says she can't convert? Or is it the government that says she can't change the religious designation on her identification?

For the record, none of my Muslim friend has ever referred to me as an infidel, not one has ever made an attempt on my life, and there have been no car bombs exploded in front of my home. So I don't think Islam is the problem with Middle Eastern terrorism, any more than Christianity is the problem with Fred Phelps. Twisted people try to use their gods as a cover for perverse behavior. There's a running joke around out house about some of the things people do in the name of Jesus. "Can't you just see Jesus telling Jehovah, "Honest, Dad! That is NOT what I told them to do! So help me Me!""

Just to be clear on this, Victoria:

"aganplace-
if you want interfaith, why come to a self defined muslim and criticize self definition?

it goes without saying (even though she did, and twice) that her perspective is islamic-"

She made an assertion, as though it were a universal fact, and I pointed out that this assertion only holds within certain systems of thought that are *constructed* that way.

In the spirit of interfaith discussion, I pointed out that, in fact, other perspectives exist, and it's not 'impossible' to think otherwise.

Some *poster* (Commentator) came on and said some other things, which I also responded to. Separately.

"no one said 'delusional', or made vaque threats of 'consequences' or mentioned demons.
you made that up yourself and it has no bearing on what ms mubarak posted."

It doesn't, ...you're the only one saying I should. Commentator, in fact, said everyone else is in 'denial' and quoted something saying:

"oh you mohammad tell the disbeliever to enjoy his disbelief for a little a while, for that you are from the dweller of the hell fire."

I would figure that calling non-Muslims 'from the dweller of the hell-fire' is pretty much calling people 'hell-spawn,' wouldn't you think?

"do you have no inclination to find similarities and beauty in what others believe?
that is true interfaith respect."

Well, maybe you wouldn't be asking these accusatory questions if you could get it straight what I'm saying and what I'm not. You know I've often stood to defend Muslim posters and columnists here, but when I disagree with something a Muslim says, you start flinging accusations of intolerance.

what generalization are you making daniel?
im speaking to a specific post by a specific author, the one who genreated this board.

the qu'ran commands people to respect christians and jews in particular, and says tere is no compulsion in religion.

christians and jews dont comprise all of the religions in the world, but what other major religions make such a pronouncement?

where have you seen, specifically, myself denigrate any other belief system or show disrespect based on an ideology?

you have not-

where do you see anger or 'huffiness'?

i rarely get anything even remotely resembling respect from non-muslims on these boards-
you have never seen me once call someone a name- or attack their beliefs-

and im a muslim-
so broad generalizations, when applied to any race, or gender, or belief are called racism, sexism and xenophobia respectively.

have i ever returned any unkind remarks to you yourself?
you made some heavy accusations that were proven untrue- but only because i responded patiently to you- not because i was disrespectful.

i would say the same thing about any generalization for anyone-

you have made yourself vulnerable with some self admitted weaknesses- i have never attacked or used them- i dont even identify them-

i will assume that sonce there is no specific complaint to be lodged, the atmosphere of intolerance towards muslims is becoming such an acceptepted norm, that you fell free to insult muslims in general, knowing that the climate to such insults is amenable.

it is just as distasteful to me if someone denigrates people based on color, sex, intellectual ability- diseased conditions etc-

respect is respect and i certainly have a right to receive what i give

if you find instances to the contrary, repost them here.
now peace daniel-

i recommend all to go to ms manji's post or salman's posts

"paganplace- since the panelist TWICE and first described herself as a muslim- how could you miss that?
she was speaking for herself AS A MUSLIM-
there was no corollary or putdown or disrespect of anyone anywhere."

Ok, Victoria. I didn't ridicule the columnist... I said I disagreed with her on a point that it's impossible for life to have purpose without an afterlife.

She didn't say 'for her,' ...she stated it as a fact.

Some other poster, whom I addressed was the one who was disrespectful, ...you're conflating the two conversations.

I would like to disagree with Victoria that there is a frequent tone of condescension in many Muslim pronouncements. Islam is presented with an authoritative air which may be the custom among Muslims, but is pretentious to everyone else. Perhaps Muslims are not aware that they speak with such an off-putting attitude, and perhaps they do not care. But they should. There is no law written anywhere that Muslums should respect the beliefs of other people, but then they shouldn't get all huffy and angry, when people do not respect them, in return.

Victoria wrote:
is is one- for once- take advantage of it and share with us what you believe.

I believe islam is an evil CULT and I try to awaken muslims from this islamic brainwashing. I'm not against criticizing any faith, only the ones that contain a great deal of virtues are able to withstand criticism.

I'm against hate not faith.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum

ross- what?
i didnt refuse, no one asked!

and its not like i have all day to sit in front of the computer and defend or expalin myself every time i enter here.

ive written reams on these boards elucidating exactly what youre criticizing me for not addressing.

how nonsensical-
i cant do everything- if youre that interested do a search-

why should i be asked in such confrontational manner to justify my existence?
what does that have to do with the prcie of tea in china?

ive written and written many many posts about what i see in this ideology!

i DONT DISPARAGE OR COMPARE TO OTHER FAITHS THOUGH-
IT IS UNNECCESARY- and just plain disrespectful and rude to do so-
i can express what i find right, quite clearly without resorting to attacking or criticizing others' faiths.

so you'll see no 'comparisons' from me.
but there are pages and pages of what i find right with my faith.

what do you find right with yours, ross? (i dont even know what it is, let alone expect a justification for it)

what passages and verses move you?
where do you draw your inspiration and strength from?

keep it positive- there are very few opportunities on these boards to express simply positive and uplifting ideology-

this is one- for once- take advantage of it and share with us what you believe.
i have no idea, as i consider it your business, and never thought to ask you-
i assumed if you want to share you will, if you dont, you wont.
it never occurred to me to confront you or ask you to defend yourself, as theres no offense coming from my quarter.

that is how i register respect.

"there's no compusion in religion in islam"

This is another example of deception used by muslims. Lina Joy a muslim is not allowed to change her faith in the comparatively moderate islamic malaysia. In Saudi and other shariah countries apostates are either imprisoned or killed. Even in western countries converts are harrassed by fellow muslims. The very concept of dar ul islam and dar ul harb is to divide mankind, the purpose of jihad is to overpower, humiliate and convert non believers.

butterfly- you have the right to be pagan because that is your personal choice.

it's not a dictate of islam, one way or the other.
of course islam can offer itself.
for instance, evangelical christianity does NOT offer you the choice to be pagan.

it's not a matter of getting permission because that is ridiculous.

it is a tenet of islam that there be no compulsion in religion.
that a faith that is coerced is meaningless and unacceptable.

as just illustrated, i made a lame offer, you politely declined- that's about it.

paganplace-
if you want interfaith, why come to a self defined muslim and criticize self definition?

it goes without saying (even though she did, and twice) that her perspective is islamic-

no one said 'delusional', or made vaque threats of 'consequences' or mentioned demons.
you made that up yourself and it has no bearing on what ms mubarak posted.

do you have no inclination to find similarities and beauty in what others believe?
that is true interfaith respect.

you've never heard me denigrate the beliefs of pagans, wiccans or others- and i have boatloads o experiences with both- but what purpose would there be to enumerate the hypocrisies ive encountered or inconsistencies?

it would just be disrespectful and have the unfortunate side effect of alienating people unneccessarily!

ms mubarak has a calm and clear peace in her writings.
she has a certitude of her own relationship with the god.
that should not be threatening, but celebrated.

her certitude doesnt diminish your certitude, it's not a competition.

lepidopteryx wrote:
Victoria:
Thank you for your most gracious invitation, which I must politely decline.
I am satisfied and fulfilled with my path, as you are with yours.

Good decision ! Islam has only death to offer for those who want to reject it under shariah law.
Victoria refuses to give us reasons why she accepted islam (she should atleast tell us her story before inviting others to this CULT). I wonder what she see's in this ideology that is not present in other faiths ?

paganplace- since the panelist TWICE and first described herself as a muslim- how could you miss that?
she was speaking for herself AS A MUSLIM-
there was no corollary or putdown or disrespect of anyone anywhere.

the condescension is a projection on your part.
she is talking about caring for orphans and fighting injustice, all pretty universal ideas.

why, if you expect tolerance toward your own faith, would you nitpick with such a fine tooth comb and be intolerant of our faith?

surely you must have some awareness that muslims believe in hell and heaven-

how can it surprise you when a muslim says i believe this?
the whole point of the question is for us to share what inspires us- which she did.

it doesnt take anything away from your belief.
why ridicule it?

Daniel said: "Such a statement and such an assumption is arrogant and hypocritical, that it just goes without saying, that Islam is the ultimate state of man's thinking, when it is not, but is just one more in a very expansive panorama of philosopies and religons. This point of view shows possibly what is most flawed with Islam, that it takes a very narrow and provential view of what it is to be a human being,"

Very well said.

That one's not so much about compulsion as condescension, Victoria.

Strictly hypothetical, cause I wouldn't, and I'm making this up, but how would you like it if I said "Zeus tolerates your delusional beliefs, but there will be 'consequences,' you partisans of Stygian demons! Of course, you don't *have* to believe this..."

Not what I call interfaith respect.

I agree completely with many of the comments here, that Islam doesn't offer me anything, the right to freedom or anything else, because, by the contingency of my birth, I am not a Muslim. Such a statement and such an assumption is arrogant and hypocritical, that it just goes without saying, that Islam is the ultimate state of man's thinking, when it is not, but is just one more in a very expansive panorama of philosopies and religons. This point of view shows possibly what is most flawed with Islam, that it takes a very narrow and provential view of what it is to be a human being, that is mainly, Muslim, when four-fifths fo the world's population is not Muslim. That is a fact that Muslims must learn to accept and live with.

Just because this happens to be my opinion, does not mean that I am anti-Muslim, anti-relgion, anti-God, nor that I am an agnostic nor an atheistic; it just means that I am able to face facts that many people believe many things, some of them very strange to me; and that "my" view of things only seems like the right one because it is "my" view, but that other people also their views, too.

Victoria:

Commentator seemed to be saying that I have the right to be Pagan because Islam grants it to me.

The thrust of my response to her? him? was that Islam can neither grant nor deny me the right to be Pagan or anything else, because I am not Muslim.

If I misunderstood what s/he said, I would appreciate elucidation.

Victoria:

Thank you for your most gracious invitation, which I must politely decline.

I am satisfied and fulfilled with my path, as you are with yours.

Namaste.

Hello Me Victoria "Sweet Woman G-D" become Mad G-D! Ya Ya! < ?:+)'um..

To Nadia and Asim - You repeatedly use the word "God", as if you actually know who, or what, God is. Could God be an imaginary being that humans cooked up to explain the world to themselves, and to create an illusion of security and control in a baffling world? I invite you to relax your grip on your beliefs, and be happy with not having a clue as to what life is all about. You can still be caring and moral and decent human beings, who make a positive difference in the world, although you will no longer be able to write pieces for On Faith, as if you actually know what the universe is all about.

consider my personal invitation to islam butterfly-

its my personal cosmic dance

youre welcome to accept or reject

your choice and peace to you

paganplace- dont forget- there's no compusion in religion in islam

so relax

Wow! Butterfly, at al;

consider my personal invitation to islam butterfly-

its my personal cosmic dance

youre welcome to accept or reject

your choice and peace to you

Commentator:

**islam offers you that freedome to choose and be what you want to be .. **

Actually, Islam does not offer this to me because I don't practice Islam.

Gandalf:

" Gandalf:

"Paganplace: You make a good point overall. However, I have to say that the author has mentioned things (afterlife as its benchmark, etc.) that may be personally relevant for her religious and/or spiritual beliefs (everyone need not agree with her interpretation)."

Sure, I just have to disagree with the statement it's *impossible* to see a purpose to life without seeing it in context of an afterlife, since I and many others stand as counterexamples.

As for 'Commentator,' saying:

" commentator:

"may Allah bless you.

Well, thanks, if I'm included. Not sure, though, the way you talk.

"now for the pagans and athiests and agnostics or whatever you would like to label yourself,"

Pagan, myself. That's different from the other two. Though some might tell you differently. I've got my own faith, thanks very much.

" islam"

Is that what you would like to label yourself, friend? OK.

"offers you that freedome to choose and be what you want to be"

Umm, very nice of you, but actually, your religion doesn't dole pieces my freedom out to me as it sees fit. It's mine by birthright.

Now for the theologically-aggressive fine print:

" .. however there are consequences ..just like there is reward.. there is heaven ..just like there is hell. so your denial reall y do not hurt anybody in any way shape or form. there is a verse in the quran it says::: oh you mohammad tell the disbeliever to enjoy his disbelief for a little