I don't think it is a worship center people are against, only its location so close to such a grief-filled place.
Because of the unavoidable mental connection of a mosque with the extremist terrorists, it is simply not decent to insist on putting it here when people are grieved and, yes, angry... they have every reason to have both anger and grief, and to not want a reminder of the religion that in its extreme form demands the eradication of infidels and attacks on innocent civilians....
any american muslims on here, if you would respond, i NEED to know if it is true that you are duty bound to carry out jihad and if you risk suffering ultimate death if you are found to sympathize with non-muslims?
i love people, and i need a true answer from muslims on this. what if you all rose up against conservatism and demanded to break free from it?
i know turkey is fairly liberal, yet still converting to another faith is strictly forbidden. and we have seen iran, which WAS liberal.
isn't it intrinsic to Islam that infidels MUST be made to convert, and that even those who make a pact with islam to pay the faith tax will ultimately be forced to decide to convert or face death (end-days/subduing the world scenario)?
i need to know, and i need to know if there is a TRUE broken away portion of Islam that refuses to persecute and attempt to convert other faiths, but is determined to be completely tolerant of all faiths?
thank you, may peace and love envelop all.

Anyone that supports this mosque at the heart of the worst attack America experienced should be consider terrorists. Because the people that support this mosque from the religion that killed over 2700 Americans are not only disrespecting them, but all the families of those that was lost, the rescue workers, the families of the rescue workers, the men and women that in the military past, present and future. If they love the religion then they could always go to one of the third world counties and would learn to be a little more respectful to a country where they had freedoms and they would learn not to abuse those freedoms. This is total abuse of our Freedoms and total disrespect of our Country.

Thank you for your comment. I am saddened that you feel the need to anticipate hysteria and hatred in this situation, even though I have no doubt you are sensible in that approach.

Thomas Jefferson (he who is repudiated by the "Education" board in Texas) would have been incensed. The fact is, mosques all over the country are encountering this hatred, without any reference to "hallowed" ground -- as you know, in NYC it's around the corner, two blocks away, and completely invisible.

But I agree that we are now at the point that the center must be built. We have paraded our intolerance and hatred for all the world to see. The very people who screech about Saudi Arabia are exhibiting attitudes as xenophobic, if not more, than that state. We have people who not only deny the Constitution (et tu, Peter?), but who insist that the Constitution must give way to manipulated "public opinion."

It is time that we think hard about what this country is about. It is not about our standard of living, or our wide-open roads, or the disappointing number of students who fail to seize the opportunity of higher education.

It is about what Lincoln called our last best chance to prove that ordinary citizens can create a decent, honest, thriving society ( all right, I went off the path there, didn't have time to look up the whole quote). It means that we can't be controlled by mobs or hysteria, but by our common principles.

So, Jonathan, I'll respect your religion (whatever it is). If you are American, perhaps you can respect the religions of others.

Americans are NOT lining up behind this project. According to a Siena College poll taken last week, 63 percent of New Yorkers oppose the mosque project and only 27 percent approve.

According to a national Rasmussen poll released today, 62 percent of all Americans oppose the placement of the mosque.

Actually, whether Sufi Islam is "true" Islam is irrelevant. Provided Imam Rauf gets the money, he gets to build the Mosque. No one can stop this, not even 1,499,000,000 Muslims. Neither should anyone be permitted to stop this. It is a matter of religious freedom, not prejudice.

Of course they were naive. Their non-Muslim friends in Manhattan are just as naive as they are. Not only could any Muslim outside Manhattan tell them this was a bad idea, but Muslims overseas can't believe it either!

That's why they're never going to get the funding unless Bloomberg pays for it himself.

Posted by: corco02az
------------------------------------------
Well, the Rauf-Khan duo are friends of Bloomberg. Probably over a cup of coffee (or wine?) they had this bright idea, they all got excited at how wonderful it would be, and never thought about the reaction.

Bloomberg should have thought, he is a decent politician. But perhaps he had a weak moment.

What happens now? The Democrats will lose badly in November. There will be increased hostility to Muslims which liberals will describe with the words, "We forced the bigots to come out of the woodwork."

This Muslim-liberal alliance should be writing science fiction, and staying away from political issues. They are like children playing with matches near a gasoline pump.

Take a look at:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/governors/primary-turnout-shows-big-gop.html?hpid=topnews

Democrats are doing badly in the primaries. Rick Lazio's campaign is energeized.

The consquences of stubbornness for Muslims and liberals are not going to be good.

The fact is that this is not an issue of religious freedom. There are a hundred mosques in NYC and 1900 in the US.

And it is not as if anyone is speaking of putting Muslims in concentration camps or deporting them or anything terrible. It is just a matter of moving a mosque (which hasn't even been built!) a few blocks or to another borough.

Both Muslims and liberals have taken leave of common sense and are pretending that a marginal issue is somehow a sacred principle of constitutional rights so that they CANNOT compromise.

Alas, those who cannot bend can sometimes end up breaking.

It's a known fact that Muslims smell like pumpkin soup and NO ONE KNOWS WHY THIS IS!!!!!!!!!

Sheeple, you need to LISTEN UP!

They are building a POOL at this center!

A pool for SWIMMING!

Everyone knows that MUSLIMS DON'T SWIM!!!

So why do they NEED A POOL?????

Here's why: TO BREED PIRANAS and HIGH SPEED CROCODILES!!!!!!

TO INVADE AND INFEST NEW YORK AND HONEST AMERICAN SEWERS!!!!!!!!!!!!

The MUSLIMS will WIN and APPLE PIE will FAIL!

RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Of course they were naive. Their non-Muslim friends in Manhattan are just as naive as they are. Not only could any Muslim outside Manhattan tell them this was a bad idea, but Muslims overseas can't believe it either!

That's why they're never going to get the funding unless Bloomberg pays for it himself.

Bottom Line:
OUR Constitution - FREEDOM OF RELIGION!

Obama should have stopped yakkin' right there!

His First Constitutional Guarantee of Freedom of Religion was Gettysburg Address quality.

Nothing else - or ANY backing away is tragic for

What we don't know is how tolerant American Muslims are.

I have a question for the author, ethnic muslims probably out number Al Quada and the Taliban by a million to one, why are you letting these 2 organizations define you? Rule you by instilling fear, instead of them fearing you? You stand and let yourselves be slaughtered 20-30 at a time, WHY? Have you no self esteem or honor? Why aren't you attacking the attackers who kill your loved ones!
Posted by: victorlove1
****

There are a lot of US Muslims; you can't lump them all into one group.

What I know is that I grew up in a "heartland" community that's had Muslim residents for over a hundred years, and tolerance wasn't a problem for Chrisitans or Muslims or Jews.

The rest of your comments are poorly though out. What do you think the Sunni Awakening in Iraq was? It was precisely the Sunni Arabs deciding that the AQM was worse that the American occupying forces and rising up against them with us as allies.

The Muslims from my hometown are fighting the extremists as members of the US army in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

In places like Indonesia, the world's largest Muslim country, it is the government taking on the extremists.

You would show more respect for Muslims and their honor if you bothered to learn what they are doing before telling them what they should do.

For the park not to be built is to cave in to the extremists........not only in NY...but in far away places like Tennessee and Florida.

It is not the center that is under attack...it is the freedom of religion that is threatened.

Nothing would satisfy the extremist right short of kicking every thing they do not approve out of the American culture.

In a true test of faith and actual assimilation into the American beliefs and Constitutional rights, Bloomberg would establish a Jewish community center next door to the Mosque/community center.

IF, they are able to coexist then there would be a working model to present Israel and Palestine.

What we don't know is how tolerant American Muslims are.

I have a question for the author, ethnic muslims probably out number Al Quada and the Taliban by a million to one, why are you letting these 2 organizations define you? Rule you by instilling fear, instead of them fearing you? You stand and let yourselves be slaughtered 20-30 at a time, WHY? Have you no self esteem or honor? Why aren't you attacking the attackers who kill your loved ones!

I don't mean one at a time either, get a million of your billion and wipe them out! Take control of your religion and your lives and then you can live without fear!

In a true test of faith and actual assimilation into the American beliefs and Constitutional rights, Bloomberg would establish a Jewish community center next door to the Mosque/community center.

IF, they are able to coexist then there would be a working model to present Israel and Palestine.

What we don't know is how tolerant American Muslims are.

I have a question for the author, ethnic muslims probably out number Al Quada and the Taliban by a million to one, why are you letting these 2 organizations define you? Rule you by instilling fear, instead of them fearing you? You stand and let yourselves be slaughtered 20-30 at a time, WHY? Have you no self esteem or honor? Why aren't you attacking the attackers who kill your loved ones!

I don't mean one at a time either, get a million of your billion and wipe them out! Take control of your religion and your lives and then you can live without fear!

And that explains what is happening. Since liberals favor the mosque, they are trying to brand all who disagree with them as bigots who hate Muslims.

***
But these are not the concerns of US Muslims.

Muslims ... should avoid their alliance with liberals, and say instead to the AVERAGE American, "We respect your feelings and we will move the mosque".

This would bring them enormous rewards from a grateful nation. Anti Muslim bigots would find themselves grossly outnumbered.

Posted by: rohit57
***

You're pretty good at knowing my motives better than I do and knowing what are "the concerns of US Muslims" - as if all US Muslims or liberals shared the same concerns.

I've spend a lot of time on this in the past week. I can tell you that there are a lot of bigots posting comments - I'll toss out a guesstimate of 2:1 bigots over people such as yourself willing to have a reasoned argument. You also find it in the people raising objects to Islamic centers far from New York, people accusing Islam of plotting world domination, people who deny the historical record in order to spread falsehoods.

You think my interpretation of Palin's comments is unfair. OK - you tell me why it is ok for people to protest a Islamic center in lower Manhatan. Why are their feelings more important that the feelings of the relatives of Muslims who lost their lives, or US citizens who are told their religion symbolizes terrorism?

You and Dean may be right that the politically prudent thing to do is to move the mosque. Buhyan clearly doesn't like being dragged into this fracas without warning.

Myself, I dislike backing down to ignorance and prejudice even if they don't rise to the level of bigotry. I dislike handing the terrorists a win by giving them an opportunity to portray the US as fearful and resentful of Islam.

It's not about whether the people making the stink are Republicans. You sound like you're buying in to Palin's victimology. I do wonder why so few Republicans will take George Bush's stance against blaming the Muslims who are also the victims of Al Qaeda. If they're not enemies, they're too insensitive to our feelings! Boo hoo. If you don't "refudiate", maybe you're not really a "peaceful Muslim"?

As regards our Muslim fellow citizens, my suggestion is this: If you give up the location of the Islamic Center, extract a price that acknowledges your dignity and place in the body politic. You need a public symbol. A minaret at the side of the Statue of Liberty? A National Mosque in Washington DC?

Take a look at the following CNN poll taken on August 11:

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/08/11/rel11a1a.pdf

According to that poll (page 8), 68% of all Americans, and 54% of Democrats oppose the mosque. It is just not plausible that all these people are bigots.

There was only ONE group which was marginally pro-mosque. Liberals favored the mosque 51% to 45%.

And that explains what is happening. Since liberals favor the mosque, they are trying to brand all who disagree with them as bigots who hate Muslims.

Muslims should not buy into this. Liberals are quite often motivated by their hostility to Republicans and by their hostility to Christians.

But these are not the concerns of US Muslims.

Muslims want to lead decent lives as citizens of this country and they cannot afford to be friends ONLY with liberals. So they should avoid their alliance with liberals, and say instead to the AVERAGE American, "We respect your feelings and we will move the mosque".

This would bring them enormous rewards from a grateful nation. Anti Muslim bigots would find themselves grossly outnumbered.

This alliance between liberals and Muslims is actually quite weird.

Liberals glorify abortion. Abortion is banned or severely restricted in almost all Muslim countries.

Liberals glorify atheism. For Muslims the will of God is supreme.

Somehow the expression The strange Couple comes to mind.

But absent bigotry, why would somebody oppose the mosque? Only by associating the terrorists with Islam, and failing to distinguish between these fanatics and the rest of the world's Muslims, including our citizens.

Accepting that association smacks of a gross ignorance, and carries the scent of a mild bigotry in not bothering to confront it. It says its ok if US citizens of the Muslim faith are rewarded with suspicion. It says it's ok to let the terrorists redefine the public meaning of being Muslim.

I respect your feelings enough to discuss them with you openly and tell you when I think your feelings are in error. I respect your feelings enough not to tell you that your motives are only selfish and partisan.

Posted by: j3hess
---------------------------------
Actually _I_ do not have feelings against the mosque. It is fine with me if it is built. So there is nothing for you to respect there.

But I do respect the more than 60% of my fellow citizens who oppose the mosque. And I know that more than half of the opponents respect Islam and are not bigots.

As for Palin, you are indulging in a lot of "interpretation" to get some mean spiritedness out of what she said.

But that is quite different from the explicit statement by Gingrich which did not need any interpretation. I think you are not being fair to her, and it bothers me how difficult it is for Democrats to ever be fair to any Republican.

Governor Paterson, majority leader Reid, and Howard Dean all said that the mosque should be moved. If you think that they too are bigots, please say so explicitly.

You can claim that Reid is running for election and is a coward. But Paterson and Dean are not running for elections.

You need to take in the actual complexity of the situation rather than branding everyone who does not agree with you a bigot.

The moderate Muslim community failed to speak out vocally about 9/11. They remained silent about this vile act and still remain silent.
Posted by: richard36
---------------------------------
The reason is that the Quran says that Muslims must not accept injustice and have a right, even a duty to fight it with violence.

This is an understandable notion, but the notion of "injustice" is subjective. And Islam has no central authority that says to Muslims, "This thing is OK, don't regard it as injustice."

So when Rushdie writes Satanic Verses, Khomeini all by himself can issue a fatwa and he does not need to consult with any central authority.

This is the danger. All Osama needs to do is to find ONE cleric who will tell his men, "This act by the US is an outrage and you must exact vengeance". Osama does not need to consult anyone else.

These are difficulties with the entire structure of Islam which were at one time its strength, but have now become an impediment, both to Muslims and to their hosts in non-Muslim countries.

But Palin said NOTHING Anti-Muslim at all. She appealed to peaceful Muslims and she made one mistake, she misspelled "repudiate" as "refudiate".

"people like kenk3 are a MINORITY among those opposed to the mosque. The MAJORITY of mosque opponents are non-bigoted people who just do not think that a mosque at THIS location is proper."
Posted by: rohit57

“Ground Zero Mosque supporters: doesn’t it stab you in the heart, as it does ours throughout the heartland? Peaceful Muslims, pls refudiate,”
Tweeted by: Sarah Palin
---

True, she doesn't make the Nazi comparison.

She does presume that a Muslim center in the neighborhood of ground zero must stab one in the heart - as if it is the common understanding that Muslims were responsible or should be acceptable to believe it.

And there is the presumption that the mosque builders must not be peaceful Muslims.

Aside from that, as one who has lived both in the middle of the country and the coast, it is offensive to have Palin divide us up into the all-American heartland and the offensive elites of urban America.

Is it possible to oppose the mosque without being as bigoted as kenk3? Yes, although the it seems that those driving the public opposition tend towards either the bigots who first raised a stink or the politicians who intend to gain by their demagoguery.

But absent bigotry, why would somebody oppose the mosque? Only by associating the terrorists with Islam, and failing to distinguish between these fanatics and the rest of the world's Muslims, including our citizens.

Accepting that association smacks of a gross ignorance, and carries the scent of a mild bigotry in not bothering to confront it. It says its ok if US citizens of the Muslim faith are rewarded with suspicion. It says it's ok to let the terrorists redefine the public meaning of being Muslim.

I respect your feelings enough to discuss them with you openly and tell you when I think your feelings are in error. I respect your feelings enough not to tell you that your motives are only selfish and partisan.

The moderate Muslim community failed to speak out vocally about 9/11. They remained silent about this vile act and still remain silent.

Theo9, the residential population of lower Manhattan is around 60,000 people (south of Chambers St). If you visit our neighborhood, you will find schools, playgrounds, dog parks, grocery stores and houses of worship.

Many of us were here on 9/11, and many of us had to evacuate for weeks or months after the attack. We have worked very hard to restore our damaged homes and neighborhood.

I cannot tell you how disheartening it is to see you and your ilk cheerfully announcing that we do not exist. If you wish to oppose Park51, that is your right, but please do some basic research and get your facts right -- especially if you are going to assume that you have the right to dictate what we do or don't have in our neighborhood.

...........

Posted by: semolina |
---------------------------------
Dear Semolina: 343 firemen died on 9-11. Now, we know that they died in your neighbourhood. But did they also LIVE in your neighbourhood? If they did not, then they do not count, is that what you are saying? As a matter of fact, my daughter who lived on 23rd St, and I who live on 9th street both developed lung problems.

The world is connected. People who did not live in your neighbourhood died in your neighbourhood. You cannot spit on their deaths just because they were not residents of your little world.

Here are some figures:

•Number of firefighters and paramedics killed: 343

•Number of NYPD officers: 23

•Number of Port Authority police officers: 37

•Number of WTC companies that lost people: 60

•Number of employees who died in Tower One: 1,402

•Number of employees who died in Tower Two: 614

•Number of employees lost at Cantor Fitzgerald: 658

•Number of U.S. troops killed in Operation Enduring Freedom: 22

•Number of nations whose citizens were killed in attacks: 115

Theo9, the residential population of lower Manhattan is around 60,000 people (south of Chambers St). If you visit our neighborhood, you will find schools, playgrounds, dog parks, grocery stores and houses of worship.

Many of us were here on 9/11, and many of us had to evacuate for weeks or months after the attack. We have worked very hard to restore our damaged homes and neighborhood.

I cannot tell you how disheartening it is to see you and your ilk cheerfully announcing that we do not exist. If you wish to oppose Park51, that is your right, but please do some basic research and get your facts right -- especially if you are going to assume that you have the right to dictate what we do or don't have in our neighborhood.

Park51 will indeed be a community center, providing much-needed amenities for our neighborhood, which is the fast-growing residential area in New York City.

Two Muslim groups have worshiped in our neighborhood for years (long before 9/11). For us, that is perfectly normal. Perhaps our neighborhood is different from yours in terms of liveliness and diversity, but we like it that way.

Note that abortion is either illegal or highly restricted in the following countries:

Afghanistan, Egypt, Iran, Lebanon, Libya, Oman, Sudan (r), Syria, United Arab Emirates, Yemen.

And that means that on abortion, all these countries agree with Sarah Palin and do not agree with US liberals who are responsible for the deaths of 40 million (yes, 40 million) unborn since Roe v Wade.

Moreover note that when Israel, France and Britain attacked Egypt in 1956 it was Republican president Eisenhower who forced the aggressive trio to pull back.

It is important to remember that Muslims and Republicans share more values than Muslims share with liberals.

The Bible is a holy book for both Muslims and Christians. It is not a holy book for liberals. Liberal values and Muslim values are different.

We always need to keep that in mind.

The United States would be a better place if Muslim immigrants went home to whatever dirty country they're originally from.

If you were born here, move to whatever dirty country you'd feel welcome.

Posted by: kenk3 |
--------------------------------
This is an extremist comment by someone who IS bigoted.

Such comments are harmful because they create the false impression that people who oppose the mosque (at TGround zero) are bigots who hate Muslims.

But in actuality, people like kenk3 are a MINORITY among those opposed to the mosque. The MAJORITY of mosque opponents are non-bigoted people who just do not think that a mosque at THIS location is proper.

And if the mosque gets built at this location despite the opposition of a majority of Americans ("because they are all bigots and we cannot give in to bigots") then you should expect trouble.

There will be trouble for Muslims from ordinary Americans, and there will be trouble for the Democrats in November.

Don't like the Republicans? Don't make their hands stronger by building this mosque at Ground zero, because you will be uniting the extremist opposition to the mosque with the moderate opposition, those who only want their feelings respected.

Finally, Mr. Bhuyan, do NOT listen to the liberals. They are not motivated by their concern for your well being. They are motivated by a silly legalism and their hatred for Republicans.

Let them fight their own fights, but you have your own concerns which they do not share.

Why don't the Jews move their synagogues away from Wall St? After Bernie Madoff, they're a stab in the heart of America.

Honest Jews, please don't stab America in the heart.

Yours,

Sarah Palin

You say, "It is easy to write off Sarah Palin's Shakespearean tweets and Newt Gingrich's kickoff to his presidential campaign. But if there is honest critique coming from American Muslims to ensure this project's ultimate success, it must be heard."

This paragraph is extremely biased. And why? Gingrich compared Muslims to Nazis - this is extremism. But Palin said NOTHING Anti-Muslim at all. She appealed to peaceful Muslims and she made one mistake, she misspelled "repudiate" as "refudiate".

And for THAT you are lumping her with Gingrich? Then why should Americans not lump Imam Rauf with Osama bin Laden? Guilt by association is not an acceptable method of argument.

I do have a second comment. A recent review by Time magazine showed that 61% of Americans are opposed to the mosque at Ground zero. On the other hand, 55% of Americans said that US Muslims were patriotic and only 25% said that they were not.

So among those who oppose the mosque AT THIS SITE, a majority are people who DO NOT DISLIKE Muslims, think of them as patriotic, and still object to the mosque at this place.

I am myself an admirer of the Sufi poet Rumi, just as I assume Imam Rauf is. But I DO object to the mosque at this location as insensitive, and it DOES NOT IMPLY ANY DISLIKE OF MUSLIMS. It is just not appropriate.

So I hope you will take in the fact that the majority of opponents of the mosque are NOT bigots and seriously consider respecting their feelings.

Otherwise, if this building does go up at Ground zero, expect that prejudice against Muslims will go up.

Please take the MODERATE opposition to the mosque (Islamic community center) seriously. Don't play the game of pretending that we are all bigots.

The United States would be a better place if Muslim immigrants went home to whatever dirty country they're originally from.
If you were born here, move to whatever dirty country you'd feel welcome.
Posted by: kenk3
***

Sorry, kenk3, I prefer my Muslim neighbors to bigots such as you. They're generally more educated, have better manners, and appreciate American values.

You're welcome to leave anytime, though.

"Do you think the Canadian Muslim Raza is a bigot?"

All I can tell from the article is that she came to the meeting with her mind already made up and she had a chip on her shoulder.

This article is all over the right-wing media, often with poor attribution. I did a little digging.

One site attributed it to the Sudbury Star. The Star website says they cover Northern Ontario - a bit removed from NYC. Searching for keywords on the site turns up no matches to the story in the high-match results.

Several give the author as one Brian Lilley, as posted here by Akafir. Lilley has a half-dozen different claims to work for this news bureau or that; the only constant is a reliably right-wing stance.

The Muslim Canadian Congress website doesn't list Raza but she could well be a member. The organization's primary campaign seems to have been for a ban on the burqa or niquab in Canada - i.e., to limit the freedom of religion in favor of assimilation.

In short, I wouldn't take Raza's testimony on anything that supposedly transpired in a private phone conversation where she is deliberately acting as a provocateur.

The United States would be a better place if Muslim immigrants went home to whatever dirty country they're originally from.

If you were born here, move to whatever dirty country you'd feel welcome.

If the author knows so little about the proposed Islamic center, how does he know what those behind it did? In fact, the Mayor of New York is said to approve of the project. Most of the people in the neighborhodd where the propsed project is to be built are also said to be in favor of it. Those trying to get the center built likely have worried about dealing with the specific problems of getting it built. That means buying the property and making sure the plans for it are consistent with the zoning in its neighborhood. They may not have worried about the opinions of others that are not of any real significance except for media debates.

"We want to want to support this project, but we don't want to have to support it. There has been concern that this controversy, one that leaves all Americans weary, is not a fight that ever really needed fighting."

But this is a fight we U.S. Muslims have to fight someday, and it might as well be 2010 as 2020. Would it have been great if Park51 developers had been fully prepared? Yes, but there's nothing to do about it now, and this editorial holds the Park51 developers to an extremely high standard.

We are fighting a presumption of guilt. We are fighting constant misinformation about our religious beliefs. We are fighting federal legal attacks on our charitable institutions. We are fighting the trickling down of the brutality and torture of the "Global War on Terror" to our local police departments, immigration enforcement agencies and the private corporations bilking the government to operate the prisons and detention centers. As a majority of us are black and brown, we have to fight the "law and order" and xenophobic wave growing in this country.

Or would you rather each small group of Muslims throughout the country have to figure out how to fight national campaigns of Islamophobia each time they ask to build mosques, schools and other institutions?

We must oppose the presumption of guilt. We cannot allay people's unfounded fears when they refuse to examine facts and they refuse to even interact with us and demand our invisibility. We do not accept collective guilt each time a Muslim commits a crime.

Ultimately, Park51 will succeed if it offers the services its developers claim it will: a community center. If you walked into your YMCA and it offered training in building IEDs, would you renew your membership?

Message to all opponents of Park51: If you don't like it, don't donate and don't attend its events.

This is one of the first articles by a muslim I have read that sees the issue in the critics (at least reasonable critics) point of view. My own personal view is constitutionally a mosque can be built anywhere. There is a need for taking a big picture view of the things. We all know the crass attempts being made by like of Gingrich, & Palins, but there are a whole lot of sincere critics too. It is ironic that the supporters who complain that all muslims are being painted with broad brush in one sentence and do the same thing in painting tall the critics with broad brush.

Nothing is like being honest and being open.
Nothing is like being able to evaluate one's self to move forward.
ahhhhhhhh.. Wisdom is the spirit of it all.
Yahya

This is a great article.
Wisdom is to know what to do and when and how..
Wisdom is needed and we need to be able to engage our fellow Americans in the right way.
Yahya Hendi

Maybe the "divine hand" Ms. Kahn speaks of is the same one that inspired Glenn Beck to have an evangelical white-supremacist rally on the Mall on August 28 to piss off Blacks.

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yeah that is true, major brands do give out free samples of their popular health products best place to check is http://bit.ly/bf1xD8 send it to your friends

The reality is what this Mosque represents. There are already over 100 Mosques in NYC now. Lower Manhattan is not a residential district where a place of worship is needed. So, this isn't about religious freedom. There is something far more at stake here. Americans are the most tolerant people on the planet. We understand the difference between good and bad people better than you, because you have already lashed out at Americans in your article. This Mosque represents a victory for Islam. It's a monument to Islam on a site where innocent people died in the name of that religion. It's not a community center, because there is no community in that part of Manhattan. Americans have a right to oppose this Mosque. I am astounded at the lack of sensitivity on the part of Muslims over this issue.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jxmc4rAQm6H-tBtGldAagMS0O6zQD9HM2H600

Abdul Cader Asmal, past president of the Islamic Council of New England, an umbrella group for more than 15 Islamic centers, said some opponents of the $100 million, 13-story project are indeed anti-Muslim. But he said many Americans have genuine, understandable questions about Islam and extremism.

Asra Nomani, author of "Standing Alone: An American Woman's Struggle for the Soul of Islam," said she backs the idea of the mosque in principle but believes the feelings of families who lost loved ones in the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks should trump the plan.
.......
"I haven't been able to support the building of the mosque right there in the location they've got," said Nomani, an advocate for women's rights and tolerance in the Muslim world.
.........
Nomani said American Muslims have not fully confronted extremism in Islam, which makes her worried that any mosque has the potential to become a haven for those with rigid views.

"Yes, there is prejudice against Muslims in the modern day, but also Muslims in the modern day have an extremist problem," Nomani said.

Tawfik Hamid, an Egyptian scholar and reformer who said he was once a member of a terrorist group, said he had a "conditional objection" to the proposed Islamic center.

He said it was not enough for Park51 leaders to call themselves moderate. Instead, they should "clearly and unambiguously" reject radicalization by opposing specific extremist practices, such as killing apostates, stoning women for adultery, calling Jews "pigs and monkeys" and "declaring war" on non-Muslims who refuse to convert.
..............
By contrast, Neda Bolourchi of Los Angeles, a native of Iran whose mother was on one of the planes that crashed into the World Trade Center, opposes the plan.

"I fear that over time, it will cultivate a fundamentalist version of the Muslim faith, embracing those who share such beliefs and hating those who do not," she wrote in a Washington Post op-ed. "To the supporters of this new Islamic cultural center, I must ask: Build your ideological monument somewhere else, far from my mother's grave, and let her rest."

Abed Z. Bhuyan wrote:

"the individuals behind the proposed community center near Ground Zero failed to do one major thing before they presented their plans for their Muslim center, which would include a mosque, to city officials: they did not consult with other American Muslims."

And why would they? Sadly, you make the same mistake as the demagogues attacking this project - you think this is a national statement about Islam and/or 9/11. It isn't. It is a local community center and those of us who live in lower Manhattan would be very pleased if the rest of you - those from the outer boroughs and uptown as well as other states - just butted out.

There is, as you say, a difference between building a building and building a community. Ms Khan and Mr. Rauf have built and a deeply ingrained members of the community of faith in Manhattan, the Islamic community in the Tribeca/Financial District area - and in Manhattan generally, and in the secular community for lower Manhattan. These are the constituencies the center is for and these are the constituencies that support it.

And all of you who want it to be a symbol - whether "noble" or vilified - can pipe down and spend sometime in your own community for a change.

I'm all for First Amendment rights for Muslim American citizens but, like Baptists looking the other way at Fred Phelps, they haven't helped themselves with their silence in not denouncing their murderous terrorists.

They're a part of the religious bullying going on here by insisting on building their center near a great American wound.

More troubling are their Abrahamic cousins, Christians and Jews using this issue for hatred and division as well.

And of course Rove has jumped on the bandwagon to create another divisive political wedge issue.

A disgusting spectacle of what America has become thanks to Limbaugh and RNC Fox News continually fanning the flames.

Why don't Muslims move the mosque a few blocks away? is there something called compassion and humanity within Islam?

9/11 Families Group Announces Support for Islamic Cultural Center in Lower Manhattan

http://www.peacefultomorrows.org/article.php?id=977

Abed,

What do you think of
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2010/08/17/15054001.html

Muslim opponent of mosque reports threat
By Brian Lilley, Parliamentary Bureau

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OTTAWA - She spoke out against the Ground Zero mosque, now a Canadian Muslim

woman says she is being threatened. Raheel Raza, a founding member of the Muslim Canadian Congress, calls the idea of a mosque within 300 metres of Ground Zero “a deliberate provocation.”

Last week Raza joined Maureen Basnicki a Canadian widow of 9-11 in attending a meeting about the mosque in New York City.

“They were very arrogant. They didn’t answer questions,” Raza told QMI Agency.

The meeting was hosted by Daisy Khan, the wife of the Imam promoting the mosque and Sharif El Gamal, the man whose property firm owns the land the mosque is to be built on.

Raza says she asked questions about who was financing the building, estimated to cost $100 million, and whether any of the money would come from countries other than the United States. There has been much speculation that the mosque is being funded through Saudi Arabian sources but at the Manhattan meeting Raza said there were no answers.
On Monday, back in Toronto, Raza says she received a call on her cellphone from a man who identified as Sharif El Gamal. “His tone was intimidating,” said Raza. “He accused me of 'jumping into’ the meeting he called and then said 'May Allah protect you.’ I was shocked and hung up.”

Raza says she took the phone call as a clear threat against her.

“Why would I need Allah’s protection?” asked Raza.

Raza says El Gamal's tone was threatening and she took the phone call as a clear threat against her, and not as it is sometimes used, as a casual phrase meaning goodbye. Contacted at his New York office El Gamal initially didn’t have much to say. “I’m confused by your phone call,” he said before hanging up.

Contacted a second time El Gamal said “There was no phone call made by anybody” before again hanging up the phone to abruptly end the call.

Raza insists there was a call, “I saved the number on my cell.” The number on Raza’s cellphone matches that of El Gamal’s Soho Properties offices in New York.

The proposal to build a mosque so close to Ground Zero has become a hot political topic in the United States.

Mauren Basnicki, who lost her husband Ken in the attacks on the World Trade Center, told QMI Agency she originally had an open mind about the mosque being built so close to the site of the 9-11 attacks, now she is against it.

“We all believe in religious tolerance. I don’t think for one minute that this is about religious tolerance,” said Basnicki.

Speaking with QMI Agency from her home in Collingwood, Ont., Basnicki says many might be afraid to speak out for fear of being branded as bigoted but to her the location is just insensitive and she’d like to see it move.
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Do you think the Canadian Muslim Raza is a bigot?