Bibi will not freeze settlements and Abu Mazen will not enter peace talks until settlements are frozen. The most important thing to discuss in any Israeli/Palestinian peace talks is the rate at which Israelis will dismantle all existing settlements outside the Green Line and return to inside its pre-1967 Green Line borders. This is absolutely impossible as long as settlements continue to expand.

The most important thing to discuss in any proposed international peace talks is the sanctions to impose on the Israelis until they are 100% back inside the Green Line. An airtight oil and natural gas embargo being the most effective.

Patrick3 wrote:

How in God's name can any nation which purports to be just and democratic keep three million stateless men, women and children trapped like dogs behind walls and fences without the basic human rights its citizens demand for themselves?
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To refresh you on geometry, someone can't trap you by fencing you in on only one or two sides.

Hmmm, US aid to Israel is basically equivalent to that of Egypt i.e. $4 billion/yr). You might also say the Muslim lobby in Congress is much stronger than any Israeli influence based on our expenditures to defend and care for the Moslems in Bosnia, Kosovo, Kuwait, Somalia, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq.

And one blogger noted:

"American Muslims agree to leave the United States in a one-for-one exchange for Jews from Israel. Dismantle Israel. Problem solved!"

Sounds reasonable!!!!

And then there is this recommendation:

Israel- Its formation was approved by the UN in 1948. It should honor the original UN agreement and live within the described borders. Considering the hate generated by passages in the koran and OT, erecting dividing walls between Muslims and Jews is was a great first move and it should continue. UN forces, however, should control these walls.

And Jerusalem should be made into an international city under the control and protection of the UN.

And who did the Palestinians steal the land from? Jews. Who did the Jews steal it from? the Hittites, Canannites and Philistines? The DNA from descendents of these "tribes" can be used to determine the exact origin.

https://www3.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/

Send National Geographic $99.99 and a mouth swab and you just might qualify as being an owner of Palestine or Israeli beach front property.

And if you own land in the USA and are not of American Indian heritage, I trust you are ready to move back to your original homeland after giving back "your" property to your local Indian tribes.

The Palestinians getting their own house in order, vis a vis Fatah and Hamas, the West Bank and Gaza, would be a good first step. There is currently no ONE AUTHORITY that speaks for and represents ALL Palestinians. With whom is Israel supposed to negotiate? Will Hamas agree to terms agreed upon between Israel and Fatah? Is Israel supposed to negotiate separately with Fatah and Hamas? WHO REPRESENTS ALL PALESTINIANS? Why is this basic premise being ignored?

Lets stipulate for the moment that Fatah and Hamas can come together to form a unified Authority to govern and represent ALL palestinians, then what. Is it unreasonable to demand that this Authority recognize Israel's RIGHT TO EXIST as a first step to negotiations? Is it unreasonable to demand that ALL ARAB NATIONS recognize isreal's right to exist as part of the first step to negotiations, particularly in light of them making the PALESTINIAN ISSUE central to any discussion of MIDEAST PEACE? Doesn't this basic issue, propounded by ALL Arab nations, make them part of the process by default?

Now let's stipulate that the Arab World recognize Israel's right to exist, then what. Can we rid both peoples of the poison that exists between them? Can we talk about why this poison exists? Is it unreasonable to demand that this basic premise, the poison that exists between the peoples, be the first order of business?

Doesn't the situation demand that they get to this point before they actually negotiate peace? I suggest that it does, otherwise, the animosity between the two cultures will continue as it has for thousands of years.

Full disclosure demands that I identify myself as a Jew. I can only pray that both sides acknowledge the points I have made as preconditions to peace, ackowledging therein that continuing on the current path leads nowhere.

Everyone who is interested in this horrific situation must read Palestineremembered.com and start from the beginning.
The rest is history, everything that is happening today starts with the 'land grab'.

"Under such circumstances, it should be readily understandable that the concept of a viable peace process now seems like a sick joke to so many Palestinians."

Under such circumstances as Palistine continuing to lob missiles and suicide bombers into Israel, it should be readily understandable that the concept of a viable peace process now seems like a sick joke to so many Israelis.

My enemy's friend is my enemy. This is why the US will remain an enemy of Islam with their irrational hatred of Jews and visa versa.

How in God's name can any nation which purports to be just and democratic keep three million stateless men, women and children trapped like dogs behind walls and fences without the basic human rights its citizens demand for themselves?

On the 11th hour of the eleventh day we remember the words of the Washington Times:

"Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Monday harshly criticized the U.N. report, written by a team headed by South African Judge Richard Goldstone, "as distorted" and vowed not to permit the Israeli officials who launched the Gaza war "to arrive at the International Court in The Hague." The U.N. Security Council will discuss the report on Wednesday. "

WANTED FOR WAR CRIMES

http://wantedforwarcrimes.blogspot.com/

crmla2fromIsrael wrote:

The war against Israel is not a war against Israel. It is a war against the West

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Only because the West, in their proper guilt over what white Northern Europeans did to the Jews in the 30's and 40's have chosen to side with Israel in this eternal religious war. Aided by a strong AIPAC lobby in the US, the West finds itself deeply mired down in this eternal religious war that only the second coming of Abraham and his denouncement of and repentance for his hateful teachings of intolerance and exclusion could ever correct.

Both Palestine and Israel are at fault even though speaking this truth will get one branded in the US as "anti-semetic" by uncompromising and narrow-minded Jews who want to bully the rest of us like their Christian Huckabee counterparts who exacerbate this situation with dreams of the rapture prophesied by more conflict in the Middle East.

As long as Arabs hate Jews and vice versa, this is all mandible masturbation. One can only hope, through education and vacating the uncompromising nature of their fore-bearers, future generations will overcome their Abrahamic religious agenda to exterminate the other.

Christians and Jews and Muslims want to all make some big deal over what supposedly happened there thousands of years ago.

All the while they want to ignore one of the central facts that everyone can agree did happen. The Romans had managed to get wound up in the regional mess to their regret. That whole adventure did not turn out for them any more well than it has for any country that's involved itself in the area since then.

The place has a 2000 year old track record of failure to govern itself reasonably. There's about as much odds as Jesus showing up tomorrow as there are that peace will suddenly break out there. Neither thing will ever happen again.

There would not be any despair if they were not shooting people & blowing things up.

The problems they have at this point are caused by violence more than anything else.

I don't think there are enough people who want peace for there ever to be peace there. I have pretty much given up on the idea.

There's nothing holy about any of this land, there is nothing that really entitles any of the people fighting over it to fight over it, and the entire thing is an absurd cultural conflict that will never be solved.

People were fighting and dying over that mud pile long before I was born, and they'll be doing it long after I'm dead. That anyone would expect any different of the area is just silly.

The thing to do if you don't like what's happening there is to leave and go someplace that is not filled with fools who want to blow each other up more than they do anything else. Don't go to Somalia, Sudan, and a pile of other places where idiots rule the land, and you'll probably be happier.

Why anyone ever expects to be happy when they live in a blood trodden mud pit I do not know. That is not a lifestyle that will result in much happy for anyone who does it.

Samuel Huntington writes it so aptly: Islam has bloody borders. Israel is located precisely on that border. This tiny country is situated on the fault line of jihad, frustrating Islam’s territorial advance. Israel is facing the front lines of jihad, like Kashmir, Kosovo, the Philippines, Southern Thailand, Darfur in Sudan, Lebanon, and Aceh in Indonesia. Israel is simply in the way. The same way West-Berlin was during the Cold War.

The war against Israel is not a war against Israel. It is a war against the West.. It is jihad. Israel is simply receiving the blows that are meant for all of the west.

If there would have been no Israel, Islam-ic imperialism would have found other venues to release its energy and its desire for conquest. Thanks to Israeli parents who send their children to the army and lay awake at night, parents in Europe and America can sleep well and dream, unaware of the dangers looming.

If Israel were, God for-bid, to go down, it would not bring any solace to the West. It would not mean that Muslims would all of a sudden change their behavior, and accept the values of the West. On the contrary, the end of Israel would give enormous encouragement to the forces of Islam. They would, and rightly so, see the demise of Israel as proof that the West is weak, and doomed. The end of Israel would not mean the end of the problems with Islam, but only the beginning. It would mean the start of the final battle for world domination. If they can get Israel, they can get everything. There-fore, it is not that the West has a stake in Israel. It is Israel.

95% of contemporary Muslims are exposed to anti-Semitic teachings. every Muslim learns chapters from the Quran that those who have incurred divine wrath are the Jews, and those who are astray are Christians. What is more problematic is that the average person learns this chapter and its interpretation between the ages of 5-8. And we know that things learned at this stage of life become ingrained, almost to the point of being in one's DNA.

When the shahid meets his Maker, all his sins are forgiven from the first gush of blood. He is exempted from the torments of the grave; he sees his place in Paradise, he is shielded from the great shock, and marries 72 Dark Eyed. He is a heavenly advocate for 70 members of his family, on his head is placed a crown of honor, one stone of which is worth more than all there is in this world."

Palestinian Authority leaders and media have repeatedly encouraged young Palestinians to seek shahada - death for Allah, using a variety of persuasive tactics. In sermons, discussions and music videos still broadcast on PA TV, young people are indoctrinated to pursue 'martyrdom' for its "sweetness" and the rewards it brings. This latest example is another reinforcement of the repeated message; romantic and utopic portrayals of the heavenly rewards of martyrdom.

It is an indication of how the PA uses these traditions to promote its war against Israel.

It does so by reinforcing the lesson for Palestinian youth that death is not to be feared; rather, they should actively seek shahada as a duty and for its many rewards.

Mother: My son aspired to shahada in order to marry the Maidens of Paradise.

Mother of Abdallah on PA TV

"He would always dream of shahada, it was his first and last goal in life... I told him: 'Dear, we all want to be shahids...'

"He said: 'In this entire world I can't think of anyone to marry... I want to marry the Dark Eyed.' I said: 'If these are his thoughts I wish for him shahada.'"

http://www.pmw.org.il/Palestinian%20society.htm#darkeyed

As part of its promotion of suicide terrorism, the PA has repeatedly taught its population the Islamic tradition that shahids (people who dies for Allah) will receive numerous heavenly rewards, including 72 (or 70 according to other sources) "Dark Eyed" Maidens of Paradise.

These teachings have been seen in numerous televised religious sermons, as well as in a music video broadcast hundreds of times on PA TV during the last three years, which shows a shahid arriving in Paradise and being greeted by the Maidens

There is even evidence that Palestinian men have seen this goal of marrying the 72 Maidens as reason to aspire death as a shahid. In a TV broadcast, a Palestinian mother of a man named Abdallah, who died in clashes with Israel, explains her personal acceptance of her son's death as a shahid, because it was his wish to marry the "Dark Eyed" Maidens of Paradise rather than an earthly woman.

One of the early sources for this Islamic tradition of the 72 Maidens, according to the official PA daily, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, is cited in an a literary analysis of Muhammad's language. A Hadith [prophetic tradition] describes the rewards of the "prophets, the righteous and the Sshahids":

"[Muhammad said in the Hadith explaining the words of the Koran promising 'comfortable dwellings in the Garden of Eden,' There is] a palace of pearls in the Garden of Eden and in it seventy courts of ruby... And in each court [there are] seventy houses of green emerald stone. In every house, seventy beds. On every bed, seventy mattresses of every color and on every mattress a woman."

"The style of the Prophet [in this Hadith] ... is intended to fill Muslims with desire for the Garden of Eden ... to be worthy of it, because... only three dwell there: prophets, righteous and shahids."
[Al-Hayat Al-Jadida,)

On the second anniversary of the Hamas military takeover of Gaza, PA (Fatah) TV broadcast a public Fatah event held in the presence of senior Fatah leaders, which focused on intense vilification of Hamas,

Warning - the video contains graphic material. Whoever has a weak heart it is not recommended to see this video,
http://www.pmw.org.il/Bulletins_June2009.htm#b180609

This included the showing of a graphic video of Hamas members brutally beating a Fatah member in Gaza. The screams of the victim can be heard in the video, along with others calling "Allahu Akbar" (Allah is Great).

The Fatah moderator introduced the video with the following words:
"Hamas's name is written on every arm and leg
which was crushed by their [Hamas's] acts of terror."

The terrorists and criminals's Palestinian do not want a two-state solution, they want all Israel for themselves. But their dream will never come true.

The Palestinians fell in love with the word we're victims, because they continue to get handouts from the world, and on the way, taking some million for their pockets.

70% of Jordan's residents are Palestinians, so the Palestinians in Judea and Samaria must return to their homeland whichi is Jordan . Egypt should take over Gaza and take responsibility for the terrorists and barbarians there, as it was before the Six Day War. I'm sure within a few days there will not be a singel terrorist, because when the Arabs slaughter Arabs, there is no any human rights organization to interfere and write reports. Thise is the best solution for the Middle East.

With the celebrations of the significance of the fall of the Berlin wall, perhaps Israel and America can reflect a little on what it means to be human and compassionate.

Posted by: francinelast
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Any chance of that happening in England, your native country?

I ask because England has had so much more time than America, let alone Israel, yet has exhibited far less progress toward the lofty goals you have for Israel and America, in which you are currently a guest, I might add.

A good start to the road for peace would be realize that Muslims are not allah/god's chosen people and that the koran is mostly fiction and that Islam has no historic claims on the land. (ditto for the Jewish claims for the same land).

LUFRANK1, thanks for your eloquent demonstration of why the Palestinian cause has neither credibility nor legitimacy. You don't want to build anything - you just want to blow stuff up.

Now that the Palestinians are in despair, perhaps they will try peace for once!

Naw. not a chance. The Palestinians are still shooting missiles at Israel while demanding a humanitarian handoout for electricity, food and gasoline from them.

If my land land and its people were being bulldozed to make more space for Neo-Nazi Jews - - - - I would also be in despair . . . and in desperation, wearing bombs.

I agree with Annieannab. Under the neocons and the Bush Administration, the world totally lost its moral compass. Here in America, so many Americans have become hateful towards their fellow human beings, and there's so much anger now. Under Clinton, the world felt as though it was moving towards a more just community. But endless war, injustice and violence have left a bad, bad feeling.

With the celebrations of the significance of the fall of the Berlin wall, perhaps Israel and America can reflect a little on what it means to be human and compassionate.

The Palestinians could have, and should have, engaged in non-violent confrontations with Israel for these many years. Just because you're right doesn't mean you can use any method that you want to fight injustice, including the deliberate murder of innocent women and children as opposed to casualties in a military conflict. That does not let Israel off the hook, either. Israel could have removed civilians from Gaza before its campaign, and did not, unlike the US operation in Fallujah, Iraq.
The Palestinians could start recognizing the suffering incurred by the Jewish people as a result of pogroms in Russia, and of the Holocaust. That record of suffering has driven the Jewish people, in an act of desperation, to seek to start a land of their own where they can protect themselves. That land is Israel, and it was recognized by the international community as such in 1947. However, Israel went far beyond the boundaries of the international recognition of a shared land, into what is the situation today. There are many in Israel who do not want a single Palestinian remaining in lands east of the Jordan river and Jezreel valleys, and people like that are egged on by more Palestinian violence. They use such violence as an excuse for more land expropriations.
Our own government has failed to put any serious pressure on Israel to negotiate in good faith. Clniton could have reached an agreement with Arafat if he had the statesmanship to go on national television and explain why the Palestinians should be allowed to have true sovereignty over East Jerusalem, not a fake kind of sovereignty in which Jews living in East Jerusalem would still remain Israeli citizens and under Israeli law. But Clinton did not do that, because he did not want to turn Jewish voters in New York against his wife's electoral campaign.
There is much that both sides have to be ashamed of, in this conflict, especially the supporters of Hamas and their murderous suicide bombings. The world should impose a just solution with troops on the ground to divide the two sides. But maybe it will serve the Israelis right if they get what they want, because in the end the Palestinans will swamp them demographically and they will be left with an apartheid state and as pariahs to the rest of the world when the US runs out of money to keep providing them billions a year.

Thank you for publishing this informative article on Palestine by Dr. Hussein Ibish, Senior Fellow, American Task Force on Palestine. We need to be noticing Palestine- and the very real plight of the Palestinians.

Today I saw an inspiring new campaign led by Karen Armstrong and Archbishop Desmond Tutu - a worldwide campaign "Charter for Compassion" urging all people to live by the golden rule. Applying "the golden rule" would result in a world of kindness and understanding: I think it is clear that the very real plight of the Palestinians needs our compassion and all our best efforts to help bring about a just and lasting peace.

"The Golden Rule requires that we use empathy -- moral imagination -- to put ourselves in others' shoes. We should act toward them as we would want them to act toward us." http://charterforcompassion.org/learn

We need a Golden Rule Peace for Israel and Palestine, a Golden Rule Peace firmly grounded in full respect for international law and basic human rights- and a golden rule guide to calming down the conversation rather than inflaming bigotry, extremism and despair.

I very much agree that supporting the institution building program proposed by Prime Minister Salam Fayyad "could enact a dynamic, unilateral, nonviolent and constructive resistance to the occupation, creating the necessary framework for Palestinian independence, and constituting a dramatic transformation of the strategic environment in favor of both Palestinian interests and the prospects for peace."... and I am glad that there is An American Task Force on Palestine, with scholars busy trying to be a bridge between 'us' and 'them'.

Thanks again for publishing Ibish's thoughtful article.