Losing Our American Way
By Norman Lear
Television producer
In 1980 I had what I look back on now as a born-again-as-an-American moment. I heard a TV Evangelical ask his viewers to pray for the "removal" of a member of the Supreme Court and it shook me to my core. What I did as a result was to produce a 60-second
public service announcement, take it to South Bend, Ind., show it to Father Theodore Hessburgh at Notre Dame, secure his approval and ask him for the names of other mainline church leaders who might join his endorsement. It was a handful of such leaders, along with the late Texas Congressman Barbara Jordan, that joined in what became PEOPLE FOR THE AMERICAN WAY. The title came from the PSA in which a blue-collar worker says that "No one, not even a preacher, can tell us we're good Christians or bad ones depending on our political points of view . . . That's not the American way." With a small purchase of time on a single D.C. station, that TV ad was picked up nationally, discussed on the evening news on all three networks and, almost like an act of spontaneous combustion, turned into a national organization, PEOPLE FOR THE AMERICAN WAY.
One year later, PFAW produced a two-hour TV special, "i Love Liberty," on ABC, to make the point that, while religion had a place in the hearts of politicians, it had no place in the heart of politics The honorary co-chairs of this broadcast were President Gerald Ford and Lady Bird Johnson. On the same stage were Barry Goldwater and Jane Fonda. I look back at it as a born-again Americans moment for some 20,000 people in the Los Angeles Sports Arena. It was a short step from the battlements atop that wall of separation to an unflagging interest in the makeup of our Supreme Court. On the makeup of that court every constitutional right and liberty depends and so the nomination process and choice of nominees became of particular concern also.
All of which brings me to news of the Pentagon's 2003 "Worldwide Intelligence Updates" and the need I am feeling for a born-again-as-Americans moment for Americans who care everywhere. As a people, as Christians and Jews and Muslims, as people of every faith and belief, we must denounce this blasphemous use of religion to support -- if not endorse -- not simply war-like policies but war itself. The cover of one of these documents, purportedly handed to President George W. Bush personally by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfield, shows three photographs of soldiers in battle gear, tanks in battle, and bombers overhead. Above the photos and underneath the words SECRETARY OF DEFENSE is this quote from Joshua: "Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be terrified. Do not be discouraged. For the Lord your God will be with you wherever you go." These words, I repeat, over the photographs of planes and tanks and GI's??
How senseless do we have to be not to see the proximity in this thinking to the words and images that inflame in exactly the same way the insurgent forces we battle across the Middle East today? I did not sit down to write this so that you would view the song
composed for People For The American Way by Keith Carradine at bornagainamerican.org, but I hope you do. And take the pledge you will find there. And then be in touch with us at PFAW. We are at our wits' end. Tell us how do we, as a people, as Americans, retroactively denounce the placing of everything deep and profound in us, everything that makes us human, our individual compacts with God, in the service of such unbridled, ignominious, self-righteous, not to mention constitutionally inappropriate behavior? And at the very top of our government? I don't have the answer. Do you?
Norman Lear, known as the creator of Archie Bunker and the TV show "All in the Family," is a longtime television and movie producer. He was awarded the National Medal of Arts in 1999. He is the founder of People for the American Way.
By Norman Lear |
May 19, 2009; 9:01 AM ET
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Posted by: BobFrost | May 25, 2009 3:25 PM
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People for the American Way should be renamed People for the Devil's Way.
The reason why this organization thrive is because the people who support it are ignorance of the Bible.
If the nukes are coming, one of the reasons is because it's magnetized by the stupidity of this organization.
Im very sure this organization shouted hallelujah when the U.S Army burned the Bibles.
Your minds have become so twisted that you guys would think that the Bible burning was the proper way to dispose of God's word.
Don't be surprise people if America would taste the wrath of God. You guys have been serving the devil in the belief you were serving God.
Posted by: spidermean2 | May 21, 2009 6:32 PM
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CCNL,
we've found a point of agreement: islam is not a good religion.
Posted by: walter-in-fallschurch | May 21, 2009 1:03 PM
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Just Some of the Effects of Following the Dictates of the Worst Book Ever Written, aka the koran:
1a) 179 killed in Mumbai/Bombay, 290 injured
1b) Assassination of Benazir Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh
2) 9/11, 3000 mostly US citizens, 1000’s injured
3) The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, US Troops, 3,442 KIA 855 non- combat and 91,944 – 100,379 Iraqi civilians killed, http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ and
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/casualty.pdf
4) Kenya- In Nairobi, about 212 people were killed and an estimated 4000 injured; in Dar es Salaam, the attack killed at least 11 and wounded 85.[2]
5) Bali-in 2002-killing 202 people, 164 of whom were foreign nationals, and 38 Indonesian citizens. A further 209 people were injured.
6) Bali in 2005- Twenty people were killed, and 129 people were injured by three bombers who killed themselves in the attacks.
7) Spain in 2004- killing 191 people and wounding 2,050.
8) UK in 2005- The bombings killed 52 commuters and the four radical Islamic suicide bombers, injured 700.
9) The execution of an eloping couple in Afghanistan on 04/15/2009 by the Taliban.
Posted by: CCNL | May 20, 2009 7:56 PM
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Who is this guy/gal Whistling? Apparently not a Baha'ist because he/she has some strong political views. Hmmmmm????
Posted by: CCNL | May 20, 2009 5:10 PM
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Err, Whistling: if all the obviously-Christianist paranoia and money-making we've seen in politics we've already *seen,* most *especially* these Bible-picture-book 'intelligence briefings' in question (one wonders if they were even *opened* the way Bush and company talked,) ...are all the doing of a 'Zionist conspiracy' few Jews, I fail to see what further right-wing hysteria about it would be supposed to accomplish.
I have a better theory: you radical Fundies do it *yourselves,* and *blame* some non-existent 'conspiracy' when what you *insist upon doing for your own purposes* *goes horribly wrong, every time.*
That's what I think.
And, CCNL: it's not to say I approve of or agree with the Koran, either, but I think you fixate upon it because the only difference between those people you've never met, but hate and fear, ...is *which* book you use to do and say and justify the same damn things.
I, like other free-thinking and free praying and otherwise free Americans, need neither your dubious blessings nor your exaggerated terrors, nor your bigoted condemnations of 'enemies' to defend my country.
Frankly, I think both you and those shadows you fear... Are doing these things because you're *both* obsolete, screaming about 'holy wars' and 'enemy butchers' when there's real and urgent work to be done... and far fewer excuses not to talk to each other than ever before... and can only hope to feel important by 'fighting' each *other* and hoping to draw the rest of the world into your maniacal, violent, and hateful vanities.
You're the same in that way.
Fights happen. No one said you had to try and terrorize the whole world over em.
Posted by: Paganplace | May 20, 2009 5:04 PM
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My Dear Whisting,
Never have I been known to shrink from commenting on CCNL. However, your "critique" lacks the credibility that anyone who habitually posts racist, Jew-hating comments would lack, in your case, you.
Goose and gander, my good blogger. Whistling, you are, in the wind. Flies of the lord of the flies.
Posted by: Farnaz1Mansouri1 | May 20, 2009 4:13 PM
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Yes, we all need to be "good" Americans. We have watched as our freedoms have been severly eroded under a politics of hate and fear. The golden rule should serve as the pulse for a return to civility in our language, our debate, and our attitudes. President Obama is leading the way. I applaud him for the job that he is doing to try to clean up the mess in Washington, Wall Street, and Main Street.
Posted by: EarlC | May 20, 2009 3:29 PM
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AND, by the way, so many are getting sick of the kind of thing written below:
conservatives v liberals, "judeo-christians against muslims"
You lump Jews with Christians? When most of Americas problems at this point
are straight from the war mongering, greedy money grubbers and the users of
America by Israel and her zionist facists.
Cute try, this "melding" but it's further from the case than ever this date. Read the posts in your own papers.
Posted by: whistling | May 20, 2009 3:21 PM
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Reality is required in all aspects of life so onnce again:
Atheists, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Pagans- it makes no difference who is in the foxhole when you are fighting the followers of the koran whose major objective is to turn all of us into Islamics!!!
And the following poem should have been used in place of the mythical Joshua passage:
Reality
O Islam, O Islam, violent Islam,
Sunnis of hate, Shiites of late,
Even Pretty Wingie Thingies cannot
Save us from O Islam's hate.
Save us from these Islamic FEMs,
Flaws, Errors, Muck and Stench,
As they ooze from the rocks of earth,
Like worms of death and wrench.
Born, Bred, and Brainwashed too,
Whatever, whatever to do?
Truth, Truth, History and Truth,
Let it Ring True, Freedom, Freedom
Freedom at Last and much left to do!!!
Posted by: CCNL | May 20, 2009 3:03 PM
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CCNL, above,
and still, it isn't those of Islam that the world consistently hates and
pushes away,
but those of your ilk. In every country they've ever set foot,
and in every century. And increasingly in the world today, right now, if polls are right.
Your truly ugly little piece above goes a long way to explaining why.
Venal, hateful, with false assumptions of superiority.
Posted by: whistling | May 20, 2009 2:54 PM
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CCNL
And still, it's not those of Islam that the
world hates, and has always hated, everywhere they've set fooot,
in every country, in every century, but you and your tribe. Can you explain that?
Hint: your little ruse of poetry goes a long way to explaining that.
Posted by: whistling | May 20, 2009 2:50 PM
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"For believers, God is a part of their lives and you can't ask them to check God at the door. Their God will always come with them."
By the same token, other people's beliefs inform their lives and practices too, and as you would not want their beliefs imposed on your life, you are simply asked to refrain from imposing your beliefs on others' lives.
Additionally, when you wish to involve members of other faiths or no faiths in your actions, as when an entire nation goes to war, you must provide justification for your actions in secular terms, not based on your scriptures. You would not want to go to war because the Wiccans of this nation feel the need to go on religious crusade against the Buddhists of another (however unlikely that scenario might be). Likewise, we do not wish to go to war based on Christian scriptures or on anti-Muslim sentiments held by Christians.
It's all about "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." I seem to remember that being an important principle that one religion's God - the God who is supposedly always with them - has been known to teach.
Posted by: Catken1 | May 20, 2009 2:49 PM
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We need religious leaders to stand up and denounce the deplorable and false religious beliefs that underly much of the born-again movement. Religion can never be about exerting power over others, either in a political, military, or social context in a democratic society. That is the very oppression and tyranny we fight against. The only healthy form of religion and spirituality are those that are directed towards ourselves, and ultimately our private beliefs.
The most egregious form of religious tyranny in American public life is the use of religious affiliation and participation as requirement of morality and good character, without further qualification. Any politician that attends church is considered morally superior, regardless of their personal shortcomings. Such standards are a poor reflection on our democracy.
This is how the Bush administration came to power, and then corrupted all the virtues of American democracy with blind ideology and misguided religious beliefs.
Posted by: AgentG | May 20, 2009 1:48 PM
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fsmt1760 wrote: "How do you denounce people who use religious statements inappropriately? You point out how the statements are inappropriate in a respectful and reasonable manner. Unfortunately, most responses state that God has no place in government. That's not respectful or reasonable."
That is because government has explicitly stated so in the first amendment of the Constitution. It is reasonable to point out such a large flaw in logic. You cannot say that religion has a place in government when the Constitution has explicitly state that it does not.
fsmt1760 wrote: "This government declared independence from England because its founders stated that its citizens were endowed BY THEIR CREATOR with certain unalienable rights."
That is not in the Constitution which determines how we are governed and determines the validity of our laws. You are quoting from the Declaration of Independence. When it was drafted a US government did not exist nor did the Constitution. Those we established much later and in the founding documents religion is not just left out, it is expliocitly stated to be left out of government. The founders did not want a religious government as England then had, which suppressed other religions and forced people to pay taxes to the approved religion. Do you want one religion to collect taxes from you? It happened under English law on American soil. We fought against any religion so in control of government. It is unAmerican to want otherwise.
fsmt1760 wrote: "God is a part of this government and always will be."
You are in direct conflict with the Constitution. That make you unAmerican.
fsmt1760 wrote: "For believers, God is a part of their lives and you can't ask them to check God at the door. Their God will always come with them."
And by the Constitution and derived laws that is not only allowed but protected. Like others on this blog you confuse your right to practice religion with the government establishing religion. The two are not the same. If you think they are you are very wrong. Learn a thing or two about government.
fsmt1760 wrote: "Stop trying to banish God from the discussion and start explaining where these people got God's word wrong. The mistakes are being made by the people, not by God."
No one is trying to banish God. Please point out where God is being banished from American life in this article. What is being discussed is the use of religion in directing the policies of this government, using it for justifications of war in this example. That establishes a religion by government and that is explicitly not allowed by the Constitution. Maybe you'd understand if Barack Hussien Obama started pushing for Sharia law to be established. By your argument such a thing could happen. Luckily you are wrong and by the Constitution's prohibitions of government establishing religion it cannot. Neither can the Pentagon quote religious text in its documents for war policy.
Posted by: bevjims1 | May 20, 2009 1:38 PM
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Those memo coversheets are yet more evidence that the country was in the hands of madmen for eight years.
Posted by: janthere | May 20, 2009 1:36 PM
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Older and supposedly 'wiser' nations of the world have for too long been ostracizing their fellow citizens for having a different opinion than the one that was coming down from the 'pulpit'..... We don't do that here.
Posted by: deepthroat21 | May 20, 2009 1:30 PM
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Yes I have the answer, but to implement it Moderates have to be in power. While the splitting of the population into institutional camps (e.g. Liberal v.Conservative and Judeo-Christian v. Moslem) serves the institutions, it does not serve the people who are used as their pawns in the competition. Government must moderate instead of encourage venal competition between split camps.
Without Moderates in power in Government, the best you can do is follow the tradition of Man: send the most extreme members of the institutionally split groups onto a battlefield, away from cities and civilization, arm them, and have them kill each other until one side wins. This weakens both their sides, and allows civilization again to predominate over the contestants of incontrovertibly split cross-antagonistic societies.
Otherwise do nothing, observe and see what happens, and just report the news.
Posted by: RPW3 | May 20, 2009 1:04 PM
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How do you denounce people who use religious statements inappropriately? You point out how the statements are inappropriate in a respectful and reasonable manner. Unfortunately, most responses state that God has no place in government. That's not respectful or reasonable. This government declared independence from England because its founders stated that its citizens were endowed BY THEIR CREATOR with certain unalienable rights. God is a part of this government and always will be. For believers, God is a part of their lives and you can't ask them to check God at the door. Their God will always come with them.
Stop trying to banish God from the discussion and start explaining where these people got God's word wrong. The mistakes are being made by the people, not by God.
Posted by: fsmt1760 | May 20, 2009 12:59 PM
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The Vatican is the seat of Satan. It's not surprising that a Catholic priest would be at the forefront of this atheistic PFAW.
America (the liberal part at least) will be doomed. Thanks to you guys.
Posted by: spidermean2 | May 20, 2009 12:36 PM
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I can assure you that there are lots of atheists in foxholes; and these folks continue to serve their country and fight for freedom at the same time that some of our own military leaders have clearly subordinated their assigned "mission" to their own "missionary" activities.
When this happens, we need to speak up, and the religious proselytizers need to shut up.
Posted by: kbwalker1 | May 20, 2009 12:20 PM
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No idea what this is about.
Posted by: squier13 | May 20, 2009 11:54 AM
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Mr. Lear:
It is no longer 1980; it is 2009 and most of the Christians who originally joined forces with you then would not have lunch with you if you paid the tab. PFAW has became an anti-faith and anti-Christian organization that has re-interpreted our history and founding documents to support it's own view of the place of faith in the public square. But thanks for bamboozling us, we're much wiser now.
Posted by: arosscpa | May 20, 2009 10:26 AM
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great post, bevjims1.
farnaz,
check susan's (loooong) thread. i posed you an off-topic question (or two...)
Posted by: walter-in-fallschurch | May 20, 2009 10:04 AM
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genericrepub wrote: "What's the old saying, there are no atheists in foxholes? Soldiers need to have something to believe in, not just Mom, Apple pie, Chevrolet (now bankrupt) and the good old US of A."
What does this have to do with the government establishing religion on the cover of official briefings about of all things war?
genericrepub wrote: "If someone puts a religious note on their briefing paper, so what."
Its not a problem if YOU put the religious note on YOUR briefing paper. You can do as you like and the Constitution protects that. What is not allowed is the government establishing religion, and placing religious notes on official government briefing papers. It is unconstitutional. Would you have been so kind as to look the other way had the words written been :
"Koran IV.74: Let those who fight in the cause of God who barter the life of this world for that which is to come; for whoever fights on God's path, whether he is killed or triumphs, We will give him a handsome reward."
genericrepub wrote: "The Constitution says, "Congress shall make no law respecting the free exercise of religion". It does not mean that one is free from someone else's exercise of religion."
Nice way to twist the Constitution. The first amendment actually says:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
You see how you left out that "establishment" part. Funny how you forgot to put that in there. Maybe because it proves your thesis completely wrong?
genericrepub wrote: "So Norman, America likes to talk about Faith, it is our right and while we disagree about each others beliefs, it doesn't mean that we want to abridge your right to say whatever you want to say to argue whatever point it is you want to prove."
You completely miss the point. The article is about religion in government, on official briefing papers, used to promote and validate policies of war. You can do it, I can do it, the government cannot. Stop mixing personal freedom and government responsibility. They are NOT the same. Bush and Rummy can pray together, go to church together, and even send Christmas cards to each other. But they cannot establish religion as policy of the US government, any religion, even the one you favor because one day YOU would not want the government doing the same with a religion you do not favor.
Posted by: bevjims1 | May 20, 2009 9:30 AM
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So one then is to assume that many historic Jesus exegetes such as Crossan, Borg, Fredriksen, Pagels and Armstrong, all On Faith panelists, are stupid, ignorant, and bigoted????
Posted by: CCNL | May 20, 2009 3:19 AM
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CCNL has opined. First paragraph is classic C.Christian Nut-Louse (elaborated in C.Christian Nut-Louse. The New in the New Testament. Antartica: Antarctic UP, 1957)
The second paragraph is standard contemporary NT. No trial. So it was that the Romans, sans trial, tortured to death R. Akiva, crucified scores Jews.
So it was that Varus crucified 2,000 Jews.
One wonders that the Romans had any quiet time. Time for family chats. What to do about dinner. How to cope with little Nero's penchant for torturing cats. Where to find a music teacher for Augusta, one that doesn't cost an arm and a leg (figuratively speaking).
Posted by: Farnaz1Mansouri1 | May 20, 2009 1:05 AM
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Spidey, where are you when we need you? You would be a welcome relief from the incessant bombardment of stupidity, ignorance, and bigotry being continually extruded from CCNL.
Posted by: Arminius2 | May 20, 2009 12:28 AM
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Atheists, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Pagans- it makes no difference who is in the foxhole when you are fighting the followers of the koran whose major objective is to turn all of us into Islamics!!!
And added historical note: There was no trial of the simple preacher man aka Jesus. Romans did not bother hearing the defense of rabble rousers. Such offenders were simply nailed to trees, no questions asked.
See the conclusions of the many historic Jesus exegetes such as Crossan, Borg, Fredriksen, Pagels and Armstrong, all On Faith panelists starting at:
Posted by: CCNL | May 19, 2009 11:43 PM
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As a young child I listen to the KKK read from the bible as to support the murder of blacks. As an adult I've heard Bush and Cheney use the bible to support torture of Muslim men/woman/children. I've seen Priest allowed to molest children and even have homosexual relationships and use the bible to excuse their conduct. Nothing the US has done is anything like the teachings of God, it's Satan who was in charge. Like the days of Jesus, Pilate and the High Priest we will pay for our sins as we see is happening now. President Obama will not be able to save us but with his guidence maybe God will forgive us.
Posted by: qqbDEyZW | May 19, 2009 9:28 PM
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I mean, seriously, here. Rummy was *actually handing Bush 'intelligence briefings' with *apocalyptic pictures and Bible verses on the cover,* and you say "there are no atheists in foxholes?"
I don't care *what* their religion is, it doesn't mean the people who *put* them there ought to need a fricking 'illustrated Bible' to justify *putting* them there, never mind claim they're on top of strategy.
Gods.
Posted by: Paganplace | May 19, 2009 9:21 PM
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"What's the old saying, there are no atheists in foxholes? Soldiers need to have something to believe in, ....If someone puts a religious note on their briefing paper, so what."
Soldiers may need something to believe in (As long as it's Christian, preferably Fundie, according to the Bush administration,)
...people deregulating finance and living high on the hog in the name of Christianity do *not* need apocalyptic Biblical cover sheets on what are supposed to be the intelligence briefings that theoretically help them decide if, when, how and for what, those boys end up screaming for Mother with pieces blown off.
Posted by: Paganplace | May 19, 2009 9:14 PM
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Correction to typo: CCNL = C. Christian Nut-Louse. (Accidentally omitted final E in Nut-Louse, in earlier posting.)
Posted by: Farnaz1Mansouri1 | May 19, 2009 7:13 PM
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Those interested in an alternative to the C.Christian Nut-Lousian Hemingway, might take a look at this okay article on Hemingway and Christianity:
Posted by: Farnaz1Mansouri1 | May 19, 2009 6:58 PM
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More on CCNL:
The famous C.Christian Nut-Lousian question:
WWHD?
What Would Hitler Do?
Posted by: Farnaz1Mansouri1 | May 19, 2009 6:41 PM
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More on CCNL:
For those interested in CCNL's thinking,
see
C.Christian Nut-Lous. The New in the New Testament. Antarctica: Antarctic UP, 1957.
Available in Deep Drifts, Antarctica. Starting at $1.29 (ending at $1.34)
Contains information on rites, rituals, holidays, why African American Presidents should not speak at Notre Dame, why elderly men have proprietary rights to women's wombs, an EXEGESIS on WIKIPEDIAN HEMINGWAY, etc., based on the Nut-Lousian reading.
Posted by: Farnaz1Mansouri1 | May 19, 2009 6:40 PM
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More on Hemingway:
From Wikipedia-
"Hemingway, who was a convert to Catholicism during his marriage to his wife Pauline, began to question his religion at this time, eventually leaving the church (though friends indicate that he had "funny ties" to Catholicism for the rest of his life).
The war also strained Hemingway's marriage. Pauline Pfieffer was a devout Catholic and, as such, sided with the fascist, pro-Catholic regime of Franco, whereas Hemingway mostly supported the Republican government, for all his criticisms of it. During this time, Hemingway wrote a little known essay, The Denunciation, which would not be published until 1969 within a collection of stories, the Fifth Column and Four Stories of the Spanish Civil War. The story seems autobiographical, suggesting that Hemingway might have been an informant for the Republic as well as a weapons instructor during the war.[20]"
Fortunately, Hemingway was not a Baha'ist. Had he been, he would have been a very dull nobody lacking anykind of political motivation.
What would Hemingway thought about the Joshua's mythical biblical words put on the Defense Department's intelligence reports????
Posted by: CCNL | May 19, 2009 6:13 PM
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Genrirepub:
"What's the old saying, there are no atheists in foxholes?"
Actually, Hemingway, a Roman Catholic, thought there were ONLY atheists in foxholes.
The following is from "In Our Time." The historical context is WWI.
____________________________
Interchapter VII
While the bombardment was knocking the trench to pieces at Fossalta, he lay very flat and sweated and prayed oh jesus christ get me out of here. Dear jesus please get me out. Christ please please please christ. If you'll only keep me from getting killed I'll do anything you say. I believe in you and I'll tell every one in the world that you are the only one that matters. Please please dear jesus. The shelling moved further up the line. We went to work on the trench and in the morning the sun came up and the day was hot and muggy and cheerful and quiet. The next night back at Mestre he did not tell the girl he went upstairs with at the Villa Rossa about Jesus. And he never told anybody.
Posted by: Farnaz1Mansouri1 | May 19, 2009 5:18 PM
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This may not have been the only reason for the war, but...some christians think/hope THE END IS NEAR!
These would be the “Millennial Dispensationalists” or “End Timers” for short – a subset of Christian literal fundamentalist Zionists who see the establishment of Israel as sufficient proof that we are living in the End Times. (They point to Dan 9:25, 2Th 2:4, and Rev 11:1.) To them, unrest, chaos and discord in the Middle East is not to be feared, but embraced as the beginning of the long-awaited “tribulations.” Many also point to Jesus’ own warnings (Mt10:23, Mt24:29-35, Mk13:24-31, Lu21:25-33) that indicate He thought the end was near.
In this conception, a nuclear Armageddon might not be a bad thing. It could conceivably be encouraged, as if to fulfill prophesy. This series of events is played out in the best-selling Left Behind books by Tim LaHaye, describing how the rest of us will be left behind when Jesus floats His faithful to Heaven – in your lifetime!
End Timers in government on March 20, 2003 include House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, General William “my God’s bigger” Boykin, General and Army Chaplain Douglas Carver, and possibly Commander-in-Chief GW Bush. (Bush’s own personal minister, avowed End-Timer Franklin Graham, has said, “Let's use the weapons we have, the weapons of mass destruction if need be, and destroy the enemy.”)
This belief has other consequences in terms of world view: Why bother with global warming, species extinction or medical research when the end is at hand?
Posted by: walter-in-fallschurch | May 19, 2009 5:00 PM
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What's the old saying, there are no atheists in foxholes? Soldiers need to have something to believe in, not just Mom, Apple pie, Chevrolet (now bankrupt) and the good old US of A. If someone puts a religious note on their briefing paper, so what. In tough times, God becomes important to people who have forgotten about him the rest of the time. The Constitution says, "Congress shall make no law respecting the free exercise of religion". It does not mean that one is free from someone else's exercise of religion. As the Virginia Constitution says and I'm paraphrasing, men shall be free by argument to maintain their faith and by argument to convert others. (This was written by Thomas Jefferson). So, Christians are free to talk about their faith to others. A true Christian will not say that you have to be a Christian, its your choice. Of course a Christian will tell you that is an eternal choice and caution you that you might want to consider that choice very carefully. We are way to sensitive about what others say and pray. If you want to put tin cans up to your ears until you're "clear" that's your choice and your right. It doesn't mean that I can't tell you that you might be making a mistake. So Norman, America likes to talk about Faith, it is our right and while we disagree about each others beliefs, it doesn't mean that we want to abridge your right to say whatever you want to say to argue whatever point it is you want to prove.
Posted by: genericrepub | May 19, 2009 4:58 PM
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Even believing there is NO God is a religious belief every bit as much as believing there IS a God. That includes those who have views somewhere in between the two extremes. There is no such thing as a non-believer.
Posted by: Valjean1 | May 19, 2009 3:05 PM
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Christians who espouse this sort of thing are just bulllies -- because they figure there are more of them than people of other religions (or no religion) they will just run political roughshod over the rest. Might makes right. Pretty far away from the Sermon on the Mount, and the Golden Rule, but that would never dawn on them -- they are too redfaced and stubborn to see the light. If they want this government for their own religion, do people like myself still need to pay taxes?
Posted by: johnnormansp | May 19, 2009 1:31 PM
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Above the photos and underneath the words SECRETARY OF DEFENSE is this quote from Joshua: "Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be terrified. Do not be discouraged. For the Lord your God will be with you wherever you go." These words, I repeat, over the photographs of planes and tanks and GI's??
Here is where Christian supercessionism began, two thousand years ago, in the expropriation of another people's text, misused, indeed, abused by powerful benighted Christians throughout the centuries in conjunction with their "New Testament" (sic), to kill billions.
These Christian thought police, ideologues, and killers knew not and know not Joseph.
Equally important the ongoing insanity infected not only the government, but various other agencies, including the military, whose militant Evangelical Christianism is becoming increasingly dangerous, may be putting lives in danger.
This, btw., is not a matter of allowing Christian evangelicals religious freedom in the military. This is a matter of ending the oppression, repression, bigotry, and harassment practiced by many of said evangelicals agains their fellow servicemen.
Strongly recommended:
Mikey Weinstein. "With God on Our Side."
See his web site, which fully documents the numerous abuses to which I refer.
http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/about.html
If we are not to have a Holy War between Christianists and Islamists, this might be a good time for us to consider some of the more reactionary uses to which religion is currently put in the secular USA.
Posted by: Farnaz1Mansouri1 | May 19, 2009 1:00 PM
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*sigh.* The particular briefing cover cited here wasn't even the worst of them.
Told you so, about this just being about Bush thinking he was 'assaulting Babylon,' or whatever.
Putting that kind of religious motivation on a *war* is what led to the Iraq debacle: both unjustified and disastrously-executed.
Bush and company clearly weren't in the real world about what they were doing.
Posted by: Paganplace | May 19, 2009 1:00 PM
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Our War on Terror and Aggression:
An update (or how we are spending or how we have spent the USA taxpayers’ money to eliminate global/domestic terror and aggression)
The terror and aggression via a Partial and Recent Body Count
1a) 179 killed in Mumbai/Bombay, 290 injured
1b) Assassination of Benazir Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh
2) 9/11, 3000 mostly US citizens, 1000’s injured
3) The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, US Troops, 3,442 KIA 855 non- combat and 91,944 – 100,379 Iraqi civilians killed, http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ and
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/casualty.pdf
4) Kenya- In Nairobi, about 212 people were killed and an estimated 4000 injured; in Dar es Salaam, the attack killed at least 11 and wounded 85.[2]
5) Bali-in 2002-killing 202 people, 164 of whom were foreign nationals, and 38 Indonesian citizens. A further 209 people were injured.
6) Bali in 2005- Twenty people were killed, and 129 people were injured by three bombers who killed themselves in the attacks.
7) Spain in 2004- killing 191 people and wounding 2,050.
8) UK in 2005- The bombings killed 52 commuters and the four radical Islamic suicide bombers, injured 700.
9) The execution of an eloping couple in Afghanistan on 04/15/2009 by the Taliban.
Continued below:
Posted by: CCNL | May 19, 2009 11:15 AM
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Other elements of our War on Terror and Aggression:
- Saddam, his sons and major henchmen have been deleted. Saddam's bravado about WMD was one of his major mistakes.
- Iran is being been contained. (beside containing the Sunni-Shiite civil war in Baghdad, that is the main reason we are in Iraq. And yes, essential oil continues to flow from the region.)
- Libya has become almost civil. Recently Libya agreed to pay $1.5 billion to the victims of their terrorist activities Apparently this new reality from an Islamic country has upset OBL and his “crazies” as they have threatened Libya. OBL sure is a disgrace to the world especially the Moslem world!!! Or is he???
- North Korea is still uncivil but is contained. With the opening up of rail traffic between North and South Korea after 50 years and with the assistance of the US Navy in retrieving NK ships and personnel hopefully a fresh sense of civility is afoot.
- North Korea was taken off the terrorist country list recently.
- Northern Ireland is finally at peace.
- The Jews and Palestinians are being separated by walls. Hopefully the walls will follow the 1948 UN accords. Unfortunately the Annapolis Peace Conference was not successful. Unfortunately the recent events in Gaza has put this situation back to “square one”. And this significant stupidity is driven by the mythical foundations of both religions!!!
- Bin Laden has been cornered under a rock in Western Pakistan since 9/11.
- Fanatical Islam has basically been contained to the Middle East but a wall between India and Pakistan would be a plus for world peace. Ditto for a wall between Afghanhistan and Pakistan.
- Timothy McVeigh was executed. Terry Nichols will follow soon.
- Eric Rudolph is spending three life terms in prison with no parole.
- Jim Jones, David Koresh, Kaczynski, the "nuns" from Rwanda, and the KKK were all dealt with and either eliminated themselves or are being punished.
- Islamic Sudan, Darfur and Somalia are still terror hot spots.
- The terror and torture of Muslims in Bosnia, Kosovo and Kuwait were ended by the proper application of the military forces of the USA and her freedom-loving friends. Radovan Karadzic was finally captured on 7/23/08 and is charged with genocide, crimes against humanity and violations of the law of war -- charges related to the 1992-1995 civil war that followed Bosnia-Herzegovina's secession from Yugoslavia.
- And of course the bloody terror brought about the Japanese, Nazis and Communists was with great difficulty eliminated by the good guys.
Posted by: CCNL | May 19, 2009 11:13 AM
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Back in 2004, when it became apparent there never were any WMD's, people began to criticize the administration for "faith-based intelligence."
I hadn't realized how right there were.
Posted by: WmarkW | May 19, 2009 10:53 AM
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The following poem should have been used in place of the mythical Joshua passage:
Reality
O Islam, O Islam, violent Islam,
Sunnis of hate, Shiites of late,
Even Pretty Wingie Thingies cannot
Save us from O Islam's hate.
Save us from these Islamic FEMs,
Flaws, Errors, Muck and Stench,
They ooze from the rocks of earth,
Like worms of death and wrench.
Born, Bred, and Brainwashed too,
Whatever, whatever to do?
Truth, Truth, History and Truth,
Let it Ring True, Freedom, Freedom
Freedom at Last and much left to do!!!
Posted by: CCNL | May 19, 2009 9:57 AM
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What an insulting Op/Ed in advance of the Memorial Day weekend.
If PFAW had been around or had been retroactively successful in stealing Americans' courage and determination with Lear's expressed attitude before 1942, those of us surviving or descended from survivors of Hitler's Germany or Imperial Japan's murderous perfidy might well be speaking German or Japanese.
Whatever allows individuals to face death and oppose tyranny is, thankfully, none of Lear's or PFAW's business. No established religion in government is appropriate. However, Lear's political, 'moral' code as a replacement seems designed to prevent or deny armed defense to individuals or to our nation when under siege and at war. The Lear/PFAW code, alone, is profoundly inadequate to sustain courage against mortal or moral adversity.
That being said, it's no longer 2003 and conflating three photographs, 'purportedly' passed by hand from Rumsfeld to Bush, with an established religion is duplicitous with or without hard support. Lear's (PFAW's?) intended inference for us, that there should be no religious reason associated with a fight for survival, is patently wrong if you are a religious person putting your own life on the line.
PFAW's 'spontaneous combustion' is more like self immolation.
Americans of Christian, Jewish, Muslim, and many other religions in defense of our country over the years inspire that comment on military and personal sacrifice: "all gave some, some gave all."
We are Americans, Norman, we believe what we want to believe and when we act in defense of our country, we can explain our actions to ourselves without your misguided interference.