It is impossible for the faithless to understand how and why at the end of the book (the Bible), WE win.

A lot of people through the ages had that Faith, that the faithless show themselves not to have. A lot of people today still take hold of the same Faith. That is IN CHRIST. I take hold of the Faith given me in CHRIST, therefore they and I are the WE (pardon my arrogance).

The seer John saw a multitude that could not be counted, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing BEFORE a Throne and in front of the Lamb. (Rev. 7:9)

It is not required of me by God or Christ, to Know but to Trust and obey. Inquisitive minds wants to know, and knowledge is good. Specially in a sub-standard Greco-Roman Culture as is this one. Knowledge is also power, again in this sub-standard Greco-Roman Culture.

But in spite of what so many appear to be thinking. This Culture is not going to make it into the Kingdom of God. For the very very simple reason that it is (like all others before), way way below the Standards of God. Because of that, with all their religions they will perish and loose.

While the rest Win, but of course only at the end of the book (the Bible). What does loosing means? Well look again in the source, The Book. It says that: Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. (Rev. 22:15). They loose WE Win at the end.

SALERO21

You wrote, "Not only at the end of the Book (Bible), WE win, but we win it all for God's sake. Those who lost, lost it all for their own and culture's sake."

Do you think you might be able to give God at least some credit in "your win"?

Some people seem to be more interested in the bible than in God.

By the way, it says in the bible that the battle is against satan and his cronies not people against people.

If the "Victory" is not for ALL OF HUMANITY than it is no victory at all.

As I have said, it is the "Good News" not the 'good enough news', which happens to be "as long as I and maybe my immediate family make it to the 'good place', this is mighty 'christian' of some.

A question for you and anyone else to think about, no answer needed but something to ponder over: Do you subscribe to the "Good News" or the 'good enough news'?

As I have said, God wins, satan loses, a tie is unacceptable.

God has had His Plan since before creation and His Plan will come to Fruition and God's Plan is for ALL OF HUMANITY and ALL OF CREATION, as in new heavens and a new earth, the dawning of the seventh day shall arrive.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Salero21:

You xtians win in the end, huh? How nice for you. Too bad for you that every cultural thing (including religion) passes in time. Zeus and Odin and Quetzalcoatl all faded away and so will your ugly little god.

But I guess that's why you fundy nutbags are always longing for the END times (and you've got to take everyone with you, dontcha?). If you can manage to kill everyone on the planet now, YOU WIN!!!

What a sick cult you must belong to. Jesus, whoever he really was, wouldn't know you at all.

Not only at the end of the Book (Bible), WE win, but we win it all for God's sake. Those who lost, lost it all for their own and culture's sake. Because they like many, though their culture was the one that was going to be spare at the end.

So just who in their opinion, made them think that their way is the right way?

There is no other way but Jesus himself.

"we win"? Your god is better than my god or their god so you win? What is there to win if not money and political power? For centuries, the Presbyterian Church of the lower upper class "won" by its milk- toast "historical and theological solidity that enables meaningful interaction with transcendent reality."

In other words, never speak out against war, torture, capital punishment or anything political. Remain subserviently quiet about all these things and attendance will remain high.

Nunivek-

You make a good point . Each of us as Christians can never forget that our lower nature is always there to take control and use lust for material things - that , yes, destroy the earth, and not be good stewards of the world and ourselves. However, social action does not mean social action through a government that is also antithetical to Christ's mission and inefficient to boot.

Social action is better done outside of the govt model in many cases.

Correction to Norrie-

1) God is there, he is here waiting for you

2) He established the ability for us(and YOU) to conquer death and sin in our lives.

All you have to do is accept it.

SALERO21

You wrote, " I read the Book and at the end we win!"

Just who, in your opinion, is the "we" in "at the end we win"?

Is it truly a "universal" we or just a "some" we?

Is the "we" truly "Good News" for All or is it merely 'good enough' news for some?

Did Jesus say, "Father forgive them" or was it 'Father forgive some of them'?

Do you think that God asked us to be more loving, more merciful and more forgiving than God?

God has a Plan and has had His Plan since before creation and His Plan is for All of humanity and All of creation, new heavens and a new earth, and God's Plan will come to Fruition.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Interesting that an article that talks about focusing on God's Kingdom and not chasing fads has elicited such venomous responses. I agree with Tullian. That young people want to see if your relationship with Christ is reflected in your actions, not just your words. Young people are seeking the truth, not some morally ambivalent answer to life’s questions. They are tired of glitz and want real answers. Having heard Tullian speak several times, I hear a man that focuses on a person's relationship with God. His focus is on what the Bible says, not what people want to hear.

Well, not only a plane but even a bird won't be able to fly without both wings. A good ilustration that can also be use to compare this culture with it's customs and politics. In other words what I'm trying to say is that this culture, society or politics flies because it has the 2 wings.

So whether from the body of the bird or either of it's 2 wings. This culture, society or civilization, sees the Church as counter to their interests. They are right and correct in doing so.

If we are counter, that means we are against, in opposition to whatever have them. In the battle for the minds and Souls of men everywhere we can't accept middle terms or compromises. Our Lord and savior JesusChrist did not either. He said that nobody could come to God the Father but through him (Christ). That was not an alternative but the only way given.

In the final triumph of the Church over the world, in Christ second advent. Is going to be too late for this or any other culture to make a choice. The decisions the peoples of the world have made to that day will stand. With no more alternatives, chances or choices. But also, all of what has up to that day infiltrated the Church from the culture, will not stand either.

So, yes we're counter or against if we remain in him. If not we're nothing more than salt diluted by the waters. But the world with it's cultures is also against the church. Who will prevail? I read the Book and at the end we win! There will be no prisoners taken.

Because there is a sure end to the world and it's cares. But the Kingdom of God will have no end.

Tullian Tchividjian

You wrote, "We need to remember that God has established his church as an alternative society, not to compete with or copy this world, but to offer a refreshing alternative to it."

What an absolute crock.

Jesus, God-Incarnate, said, "Simon, thou art Peter and upon this rock, I will build MY CHURCH and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against IT."

The mission of the Church is not to "offer a refreshing alternative" but as part of God's Plan for the Total Victory of all creation against all evil with mankind being offered an active role in God's Plan with the invitation extended by Jesus, God-Incarnate, to "Come follow Me".

It is called "Good News", not 'good enough news'.

Anything less than Total Victory is unacceptable.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Coral Ridge church was the home of D James Kennedy, who was an influential as Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson and James Dobson within that arm of Christianity but wasn't as well known to the public.

There's nothing "refreshing" about archaic views about women's rights, Creationism or biblical prophesy and literalism; except to those ignoramuses who think the Dark Ages would have been a good time to be alive.

We've watched for 8 years a President, Church and Christian Law Makers apply Torture to men/woman/children. We have seen Pasters preach the word of God for others to follow and then they committed sin. Many real Christians are upset with how Religion is being used for Politics and Crimes Against Humanity. President Bush has used God's Name while committing Evil. I cried when I read how my country kidnapped and tortured children yes God's children.

"We need to remember that God has established his church as an alternative society, not to compete with or copy this world, but to offer a refreshing alternative to it."

CORRECTION:

1. There is no god.
2. He didn't establish anything.

The Gospel was incredibly counter-cultural, in fact the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles after Him were distinctly liberating and challenged the overall culture quite overtly. You are right sir, they did not seek power to force cultural change but provided a cultural alternative. But when you are unclear about what part of our culture are anti-thetical to the Gospel, there is an implicit understanding that what you are supporting is the kind of vitrol that has been coming out of the Church in the name of being counter-cultural on issues such as homosexuality and abortion. These approaches have been ghastly, pharisaic, and have been done in the spirit of the Antichrist. What it means to be counter-cultural yes is an ancient tradition, but the culture that we should be embracing is the kind trumpeted by Paul which broken down oppression and empowered the least and the few within Roman imperial society. You talked about not losing the right wing in favour of the left, well we must not forget that the Gospel itself is not individualistic but purports to created a vibrant relational community with Christ as head. Being true to the Gospel requires compassionate social action, following Christ and having a grounding in Scripture demands that we challenge the consumerist society that rapes and pillages our world to gratify the self. Its not enough to say we should create an alternative community, that is easy to suggest, we have to do the hard leg work of coming up with what that means and sacrificing to live it out.