But these Jews are responsible for:

Exodus 32: 3,000 Israelites killed by Moses for worshipping the golden calf.

Numbers 31: After killing all men, boys and married women among the Midianites, 32,000 virgins remain as booty for the Israelites. (If unmarried girls are a quarter of the population, then 96,000 people were killed.)

Joshua:

Joshua 8: 12,000 men and women, all the people of Ai, killed.

Joshua 10: Joshua completely destroys Gibeon ("larger than Ai"), Makeddah, Libnah, Lachish, Eglon, Hebron, Debir. "He left no survivors."

Joshua 11: Hazor destroyed. [Paul Johnson, A History of the Jews (1987), estimates the population of Hazor at ?> 50,000]

TOTAL: if Ai is average, 12,000 x 9 = 108,000 killed.

Judges 1: 10,000 Canaanites k. at Battle of Bezek. Jerusalem and Zephath destroyed.

Judges 8: 120,000 Midianite soldiers k. by Gideon

Judges 20: Benjamin attacked by other tribes. 25,000 killed.

1 Samuel 4: 4,000 Isrealites killed at 1st Battle of Ebenezer/Aphek. 30,000 Isr. k. at 2nd battle.

David:

2 Samuel 8: 22,000 Arameans of Damascus and 18,000 Edomites killed in 2 battles.

2 Samuel 10: 40,000 Aramean footsoldiers and 7,000 charioteers killed at Helam.

2 Samuel 18: 20,000 Israelites under Absalom killed at Ephraim.

1 Kings 20: 100,000 Arameans killed by Israelites at Battle of Aphek. Another 27,000 killed by collapsing wall.

2 Chron 13: Judah beat Israel and inflicted 500,000 casualties.

2 Chron 25: Amaziah, king of Judah, k. 10,000 from Seir in battle and executed 10,000 POWs. Discharged Judean soldiers pillaged and killed 3,000.

2 Chron 28: Pekah, king of Israel, slew 120,000 Judeans

TOTAL: That comes to about 1,283,000 mass killings specifically enumerated in the Bible.

Conclusion: The Jews have a bloody history of their own.

PoliticallyIncorrect:

I think we are talking past each other. Not all German Christians were nazis; not all nazis were German Christians. Go to the link on the White Rose.

The lawsuit against Vatican Bank is current. Go to the link. For the Franciscan murderers, go to the link.

The struggle to get the Vatican to open its archives is ongoing. The last request was made a few weeks ago.

None of this is your fault!

Farnaz2:

Just in case you should misunderstand: When I say the Polish Jew I know from Haifa does not hold innocent Germans responsible, it means that he does not expect the Germans who had nothing to do with the Holocaust to be held responsible for what their parents or grandparents or their fellow citizens might have done before they were even born. Even a 63 year old German today was born after the end of WW II. Even a 73 year old German today was only a ten year old child when the war ended.

Farnaz2:

Unless the Vatican issued orders to kill Jews or propagated Hitler's fascist theories (don't forget Hitler was the leader/dictator of a secular state, not the Vatican and Hitler neither took Vatican's orders nor issued orders to Vatican) how does one put the history of Nazi Germany and the Catholic Church together?

Some top Nazis secretly worshiped Wotan, German pagan god. It was part of the Protestant denomination that Hitler used for his propaganda work. The mainstream Protestant church distanced itself rather quickly after it sensed Hitler was up to no good. But Hitler used religion in the beginning only for his own ends. He ran his campaign on German nationalism, not religion.

You should let the matter rest. You were born in Iran and your ancestors have lived there for many centuries. It is up to you to bring a closure to the past of Jews in Germany and other parts of Europe. Nobody else can do it for you. You are carrying a burden that probably many of the Jews who were directly affected are not. There is no good in keeping a wound permanently open. Let the wounds heal. If you keep picking the scabs, it won't.

The Polish Jew I know from Haifa lost his grandparents in WW II. His parents fled Poland during the war, and he was born fifteen years after the end of WW II. He does not want to live in the past although he lost his grandparents. He hates it when his parents bring up the topic in an inappropriate way because he does not want to live in the past of his parents, although he understands the pain they must have gone through. He has had no problems going to Germany and associating with Germans. He doesn't hold the innocent Germans responsible for the atrocities of WW II. Maybe there is a lesson to be learned. He is a really great guy with such quiet wisdom.

Farnaz2:

You seem to have missed my point altogether. All I meant was that the Pope finds it difficult enough to get Catholics to pray to all, even for themselves, so to worry about them praying for Jews is somewhat unnecessary. Vatican II is in force, so to worry about what a small group of Catholics might or might not do, and to make speculations about how it might affect the Jews is not necessary. The Pope must be given time to deal with the issues in his way. As head of the Catholic Church, he will do what he thinks is best for all. At the same time he should not be expected to take his directions from leaders of other religions with regard to internal matters of faith. The Pope does not make decisions for any Jewish Rabbi regarding Judaism. The Pope must of course consider with respect all the opinions expressed by the Jewish community and do what is necessary not to create misunderstanding.

As to the Holocaust: isn't the matter closed? I don't mean the memory of it or the pain the memory brings to the Jews. I have no idea of the details of Vatican involvement, but if there was some pending matter, it would have been brought to the attention of the international community in the sixty two years since the end of WW II.

PoliticallyIncorrect:

I'm not going to say anymore now about the record of the Vatican, the Church during the Shoah, although I could since there is much more to say, most of it horrible.

Under the circumstances, it really would be best if Catholic clergy had the simple human decency to leave us alone. We know who most of the righteous gentiles were, and we are continually seeking to honor them, to add to their number. If the Church gives a dam about its crimes against us, if it is interested in the salvation of its own souls, then it should settle the suit against Vatican Bank with the surviving victims of the Franciscan nazis and the victims' heirs, openly address its use of slave labor during the Shoah,
open its archives of the Shoah era to public scrutiny. Do not pray for us to accept your faith. Benedict should rather look at what that faith has done to us for two thousand years. Live, PI, and let live. That is all we ask.

PoliticallyIncorrect:

I don't want to hurt you, and I know you take all this personally, but I have this problem. The problem is that my brothers' and sisters' voices cry out to me from the ground. And among those voices is Sophie Scholl's, and hers was not a Jewish voice. So, here are some facts. You don't have to look at them, but I must give them.

"You are not required to complete the work. Neither are you free to abstain from it."
-R. Tarfon.
__________________________
"When the German law punishes Germans for denying the Holocaust there is a reason - the Nazis were Germans and the nation feels a collective guilt and has a duty to prevent such things from happening again. But if a misguided English Bishop expresses his ignorance, it is a different matter. It is not nice, but it is not denial of a reality."

Not all nazis were German Christians, and not all German Christians were nazis. Do you know who the White Rose were?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Rose

There were plenty of English nazis, among the most notorious Houston Stewart Chamberlain. In Latvia, Lithuania, Hungary, Russia, Ukraine, Rumania, Poland, etc., ordinary Christians, pre-occupation, took the opportunity to leave their homes or places of business to go out and slaughter Jews en masse. In many instances, such as the Ukraine, the German (christian)nazis had to stop the locals since their methods were too inefficient by German standards.

Bishop Williamson made his statements in a radio broadcast. He could be arrested in either Austria or Germany if he returned. What he did was dispicable, morally reprehensible beyond any doubt. Given that the Vatican Bank refuses to turn over the loot, stolen by fifteen hundred Croat Franciscan priests from the Jews, Serbian Orthodox, and Roma the priests tortured, the Vatican should not be seeking to lose any more moral credibility.

Here is the least graphic link I know of on these Franciscan blights upon the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Involvement_of_Croatian_Catholic_clergy_with_the_Usta%C5%A1a_regime

Do you know who Bishop Hudal was? What the Rat Line was? Who Mengele (Catholic)and Stengel (Catholic) were? Did you know that Hudal helped them escape justice?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Bishop+Hudal+rat+line&btnG=Search
------------------
There is much more, but I for one cannot go on with this. Too much evil, too much blood, to long with us in this world. But there was also the White Rose, those precious ones, and others.

Farnaz2:

Thank you for your kind words Farnaz. You are an incredibly intelligent human being. You have goodness in your heart too. You always respond to other's suffering with compassion.

Farnaz2:

What do I want? People to look at this incident without getting hysterical, without blaming the Pope and the whole Catholic Church for the rantings of a clearly misguided man. Bishop Williamson is pathetic if he has told himself stories about the Holocaust. But he is not an evil man. There is a difference. Muslims wants the whole world to submit to Allah. Christian want all human beings to accept Jesus Christ as the Messiah. The wish to have the whole world believe as one does is there in both. But the world should only object if human rights are violated. Expressing one's opinion or praying for something simply does not qualify as violation of human rights. When the German law punishes Germans for denying the Holocaust there is a reason - the Nazis were Germans and the nation feels a collective guilt and has a duty to prevent such things from happening again. But if a misguided English Bishop expresses his ignorance, it is a different matter. It is not nice, but it is not denial of a reality.

PoliticallyIncorrect:

You know I keep feeling deeply that you are a good person. I don't know how I could feel this through cyberspace, but I do. What is bothering you is inside of yourself, I fear. I mean no offense, but for some reason I can't point to, I respect you.

Farnaz2:

I think the Pope would be happy if all Catholics took the time to pray at all, for anyone, at least for themselves for starters.

PolitcallyIncorrect:

What I don't understand is why you don't understand, but I fear that something is troubling you, that you need to convince people of something.

This man Williamson was a guest of David Irving. Do you know who he was? He belonged to a group that admired Pinochet, also a Catholic, but one doesn't think of him in those terms. He was a mass murderer. Hitler was a Catholic, and in his view remained one. Not that he didn't contradict himself, but psychopaths are free to do that with abandon.

What do you want?

Farnaz2:

Make sure to organize a really massive prayer rally. Over two BILLION Christians believe Jesus Christ was the incarnation of God. Christians have to pray only for a few Jews in comparison.

PoliticallyIncorrect:

Well...? Do you get it, then?

Farnaz2:

Thanks for your prayers. How thoughtful of you. I shall in my turn pray that you come to understand that Jesus existed, He was a Jew and He was the incarnation of God.

PoliticallyIncorrect:

I understand. I shall do what little I can to organize a massive prayer that the Catholics finally recognize that G-d didn't have children, sons, daughters, etc.

I don't know how far I'll get, but I have some cache among some who might like the idea very much. For the Catholics to grasp that the Lord is One. That Jesus, if he existed, was a mortal man, like any other.

I shall pray, myself, especially for you. I don't do this often, but you say you would like it.

Farnaz2:

If Catholics couldn't be bothered about Jews praying for them, why should Jews be so worked up about Catholics praying for them? As if God is someone the Catholics have under their thumb. If a Jew took the time to pray for me, now matter about what, I'd be very happy. God does whatever He wants, so if the prayer was inappropriate, it wouldn't even rise up to God. It is said that only the prayer of the righteous rises up to God. And God grants prayers only if it is accordance with His will. Sometimes. Most times, the truth is God is either deaf, the prayers are not rising up to Him, people are not praying according to God's will...any number of possibilities.

PoliticallyIncorrect:

I can't imagine Catholics worrying over Jews praying for them.

Farnaz2:

This is how a REAL Catholic would pray for the conversion of Jews: "Father, please bring all the Jews to Jesus Christ, your only Son. May Your will, not mine be done. I ask this in Jesus' name. Amen."

Farnaz2:

Let us leave the German authorities to do their job as they see fit. If Bishop Williamson has broken their law and the German authorities are justified in asking that he be extradited, then they will do that. But the Holocaust deniers would then be first in line starting with the Iranian President. Bishop Williamson is not a Holocaust denier, but a Holocaust down-scaler with his own scientific theories about gas chambers, bombers etc. IMHO, he is a case for the psychiatrist/psycholanalyst, not the police. He would be a case for the police only if his statement posed a threat to the life of anyone.

People are free to pray for whatever they like. It is a basic human right. But Jews shouldn't worry too much if some Catholic or Christian takes the time to pray for them. God is known to be tone deaf. Even if He weren't, He would answer prayers only as He sees fit, in His way, in His time.

PoliticallyIncorrect:

If Bishop Williamson had made the statements he made in Germany, he could have, and quite possible would have been arrested. He knew this and stated it in the interview. If you went to Youtube you heard him say it, and express his fears.

The same is true of Austria. I believe that he was clear enough in his disgusting interview, and I believe that I am quite clear as well.

As for his attempting to enter Germany as a known Holocaust denier, I suggest you contact the German embassy. My guess is that he would be seen as persona non gratis.
_____________________

The history of the prayer for our conversion is the history of millions upon millions dead, beginning in the Middle Ages.

I think that although Judaism is nonconversionistic (Jews, unlike Catholics, believe the Lord has a covenant with all peoples, not just them, we would not be amiss to pray for the moral recovery of the Vatican). We don't have a central headquarters like the Vatican, but there are Rabbi/Scholars of influence. I shall contact one or two of them on behalf of the Catholics and see if they think a prayer call is in order.

Farnaz2:

People all over the world, including believers of all stripes, are complaining that God is tone deaf, that He doesn't even answer really urgent prayers, to save those dying in war, through hunger, disease, etc. So the Jews shouldn't worry that the tone deaf God is about to answer prayers for their conversion to Christianity.

As to theories about 9/11 being an insider job, and that too by Jews, is the kind of propaganda is that is rife among some groups of Muslims. So what are you going to do? Jail all who believe it was an insider job in spite of al-Quaeda claiming direct responsibility?

Bishop Williamson, if he is aping some extremist Muslim views, needs to be counseled. He has already been silenced by his superior and asked to keep his "knowledge" of history about world events to himself.

We have not yet heard what steps the Pope is going to take with regard to the issues being raised currently. Don't jump the gun. The Catholic Church is old and has its own ways of going about things. Give the Pope time to respond adequately to any concern on the part of Jews. The Pope does not seek division and strife. He is doing everything in his power to unify as many people as he can, starting with wayward Bishop Williamson and his group. He may not be going about it as everyone wants, but give him time to do what is right for the Catholic Church and for the Catholic-Jewish relations. To read maliciousness into his intentions when none exists is wrong.

Farnaz2: I'm not a German judge, therefore I cannot claim with certainty what punishment Bishop Williamson deserves for his statements on the Holocaust. Bishop Williamson as far as I know is not a German, so I don't see how he can be brought before a German court of law unless he happened to be living in Germany. German law only requires Germans not to deny the Holocaust. If the law applied to all persons in the world and the Germans had the right to jail them, the first person to land in a German jail would be Iranian President. And a whole host of others who attended the Holocaust denial conference in Iran hosted by the President.

People have the right to pray for whatever they like. It is for God to judge the rightness and wrongness of prayers and for God to choose to answer them or not. They are praying to God, remember?

How all this should affect the Pope and the Vatican, and the Jews in particular, if certain Catholics choose to pray for conversion of Jews is beyond me. The Pope is accused of being an anti-Christ by many Christian churches in the US. Those churches are not only praying for conversion to their version of Christianity but are also actively involved in evangelization. So far the Catholic Church or Catholics have not raised a hue and cry about it. Maybe there is a lesson to be learned from it. Thousands of Catholics leave the church and join Protestant denominations. They turn into the most virulent anti-Catholics because many Protestant churches preach hatred for the Catholic Church. Yet the Catholic church is not on the defensive. Maybe there is something to be learned from it.

PoliticallyIncorrect,

If you care to explain something, perhaps you could explain this. It has a lot of people, Jews and others, alarmed. Although Judaism isn't conversionistic, and I am not observant, when I first learned of this, I wondered whether we Jews should be praying for the conversion of the Catholics.

The Revised Good Friday Prayer for the Jews
Pope Benedict Changes the Traditional Roman Missal

By Scott P. Richert, About.com

In July 2007, when Pope Benedict XVI, in his motu proprio Summorum Pontificum, restored the Traditional Latin Mass as one of the two approved forms of the Mass, there were rumors that he would also revise the "Solemn Prayers" that are prayed on Good Friday. These prayers are offered for the Church and all Catholics, then for non-Catholic Christians, then for the Jews, and finally for pagans.

While each prayer is different, the point is the same: to acknowledge that Jesus Christ, by His Death and Resurrection, is the salvation of all mankind. Therefore, the prayers ask that Catholics may be strengthened in their faith; that non-Catholic Christians may come to the fullness of the Catholic Faith; and that Jews and pagans may come to recognize Christ as their savior. In other words, the hope is that all will be saved through faith in Christ.

Most of those who desired the prayers to be changed wanted the prayer for the conversion of the Jews either dropped or changed in such a way that it no longer was a prayer for conversion. On Monday, February 4, 2008, the Secretary of State of the Vatican announced that Pope Benedict had indeed revised this prayer, and the revision is to be used in all future Good Friday celebrations that use the traditional missal, the Missale Romanum published in 1962.

continues...

PART II
The new text reads, in Latin (the language in which it will be prayed):

Oremus et pro Iudaeis. Ut Deus et Dominus noster illuminet corda eorum, ut agnoscant Iesum Christum salvatorem omnium hominum.

Oremus.
Flectamus genua.
Levate.
Omnipotens sempiterne Deus, qui vis ut omnes homines salvi fiant et ad agnitionem veritatis veniant, concede propitius, ut plenitudine gentium in Ecclesiam Tuam intrante omnis Israel salvus fiat. Per Christum Dominum nostrum. Amen.

Fr. John Zuhlsdorf, on his indispensable blog "What Does the Prayer Really Say?" provides an English translation:

Let us also pray for the Jews: that our God and Lord may illuminate their hearts, that they acknowledge that Jesus Christ is the Savior of all men.

Let us pray.
Let us kneel.
Arise.
Almighty and eternal God, who want that all men be saved and come to the recognition of the truth, propitiously grant that even as the fullness of the peoples enters Your Church, all Israel may be saved. Through Christ Our Lord. Amen.

The new prayer is drawn from St. Paul's Letter to the Romans (11:24-26):

For if thou wert cut out of the wild olive tree, which is natural to thee; and, contrary to nature, were grafted into the good olive tree; how much more shall they that are the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? For I would not have you ignorant, brethren, of this mystery, (lest you should be wise in your own conceits), that blindness in part has happened in Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles should come in. And so all Israel should be saved, as it is written: There shall come out of Sion, he that shall deliver, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob.

Obviously, the hope of some--that the new prayer would not be a prayer for conversion--was not met. That's not surprising: As the passage from St. Paul indicates, it is a point of Catholic doctrine that salvation comes through Christ alone, and therefore, Christian charity requires that we pray for the conversion of all. Indeed, it would have been wrong to change the prayer (as some wished) to suggest that Christ is the Savior of all mankind, except for the Jews. Such a change would have been objectively antisemitic, excluding from the possibility of salvation the very people from whom Christ died.

PoliticallyIncorrect:

"So Bishop Williamson has not really broken German law."

He said enough to be jailed under German law and he knew it, stated it, with some trepidation. Moreover, the man is not only antisemitic, which is more than enough, he is antiMuslim. He's also a raving lunatic, who has also said that 9/11 was an "inside job."

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/roman-catholic-bishop-richard-williamson-on-9-11-being-an-inside-job/2833073901

Most bigots are maniacs of one sort or another. His "re-communication" says nothing about you or anyone else who doesn't defend it or him.

Instead of getting all worked up, the Jewish community should relax and be amused by the clownish aspect of Bishop Williamson.

There are 1.3 BILLION Catholics worldwide. The personal opinions held by a few hundred or even thousand SSPX or XXPS does not speak for the Catholic Church. It must be remembered that they couldn't call even themselves Catholics because they had been ex-communicated. There are Catholics with all sorts of opinions. As long as they don't teach their opinions as the official teaching of the Catholic Church, they are allowed to remain Catholics. When an opinion strongly contradicts the official teaching of the Church, and the opinionist insists on holding on to it, they are stripped of their teaching rights on behalf of the Church. Most of them end up teaching at secular universities where academic freedom allows them to teach whatever they want. It is hardly likely that any institution, Catholic or otherwise would invite Bishop Williamson to teach the history of the Holocaust. He can't even get invited to the "prestigious" Holocaust denying conferences held by Iran, because the Bishop is not a Holocaust denier, merely a Holocaust down-scaler with his own science regarding length of shadows of chimneys in gas chambers and the detection power of bombers based on them. It is hardly likely that he would get an appointment for his science as professor to the department of physics in Harvard. The Nobel prize for physics is likewise highly unlikely.

And of course non-Catholics need to see the incident in perspective. Belief or disbelief in the Holocaust has nothing to do with the Catholic faith as a religion. Every Catholic has the right to be fool with regard to history. If on the other hand ignorance leads to sin, and in this case led the Bishop to preach or teach his ignorance, either as his own belief or belief of the Catholic Church, or indulged in discrimination of Jews, then it is a different matter. It is a sin, and the Catholic Church seeks to deal with the sin. The Bishop could be stripped of his title as a Bishop and sent to a monastery or to the missions in Africa (where his belief in Holocaust doesn't mean anything one way or another to Africans) as an ordinary priest in atonement.

And yes, Bishop Williamson has embarrassed all the Germans too, even though Bishop Williamson probably thought he was doing the Germans a favor by playing down the numbers of Jews killed during WW II and denying the use of gas chambers by German Nazis.

Anyone who cares to listen to Bishop Williamson's words in the interview (link posted earlier by Farnaz)one will notice that he does not deny the Holocaust. He has merely scaled down the numbers vastly from 6 million down to a few hundred thousand. He claimed that the Jews who died, died in the concentration camps and were not gassed. He goes on to explain the technical details, height of the chimney, shadow of the chimney which the Allied troops would have detected from their aircraft. The fact that the Allied troops did not detect the shadow of the chimney from their aircraft is proof that the chimney was not that tall to cast long shadows. If the chimney could not cast long shadows it is proof that the chimney was not tall. If the chimney was not tall enough to cast long shadows that the Allied bombers could see from their aircraft, it is proof the Germans didn't gas the Jews...And the number six million was supposedly thought up arbitrarily by a Holocaust survivor because the number six has an evil connotation is Judaism...

See, why the German Bishops said he was talking gibberish? And why a trip to Germany and Poland is the cure, along with some psychiatric/psychoanalytic help? As to German law, Bishop Williamson did not deny the Holocaust; he merely said that the numbers were smaller and a particular method of killing technique was not used. There is no German law that says everyone should know the exact number of Jews who were killed and they should also accept all the methods used by the German Nazis.

So Bishop Williamson has not really broken German law. He has only made a complete fool of himself before an international community, and offended the sensitivities of Jews and embarrassed all people of goodwill, especially the Catholics, the Pope and the Vatican.

Farnaz2: Instead of going on and on and on about the Catholic Church because of the statement made by Bishop Williamson, read how the German Catholic Bishops reacted, how the German law is looking into the matter because it is against German law to deny the Holocaust, how the Pope and other Vatican officials are reacting...

All this happened on the heels of the interview being aired on Swedish television, not as an afterthought due to Jewish reaction.

But first Bishop Williamson needs to visit all the sites related to the Holocaust in Germany and Poland and talk to the experts on the subject in Germany. If Germans can accept the Holocaust and bear the shame and move on because they accepted the truth, an apology from Bishop Williamson is in order. Since he gave a media interview, his apology to the Jews should also be done before the media. No going secretly to confession and sweeping it under the carpet. He is a Bishop and therefore must set a good example.

Bishop Williamson has shot his silly mouth off and got himself into a pickle with German law. Holocaust denial is a punishable offense in Germany and the Bishop supposedly gave his interview there.

The Bishop seems to be slightly out of touch with the real world. A good psychiatric and psychoanalyst could help. The Pope should mandate such consultation and treatment.

Did Bishop Williamson live in Iran for any length of time among Holocaust denying Muslims there?

orthotox:

I looked into the Crusades and redrew all the maps,
I challenged China's claim she suffered under the Japs,
I threw the Indian's storied battles into doubt,
And found the starving Russians' stats were somewhat out;
History was a garden, mine to prune and weed,
Grafts against the roots, and fruit against the seed;
But when I set to Holocaust my humble hoe,
I learned there are some plots where I must never go,
And that scholar's zeal nor curiosity,
Should touch one leaf of that Forbidden Tree.

January 31, 2009 2:32 PM

-----------------------------
What happened to all the Christian nations after Islam was born?
In the Middle East and parts of Europe too?
Strongholds of Christianity like Turkey, Syria et all?
The Ottoman Empire came along and redrew the European map.
In India how did one third get to be Muslim?
In Indonesia a whole nation of Hindus and Buddhists converted they say.

History turned into fairy tale
Is a liar's zeal
A pox on he who claims a scholar to be.

The history of the Holocaust
Is not denied except by defiant fools;
Too bad some greats in Iran qualify.

Catholic News Service, 27 Jan 2009

Holocaust denial by traditionalist bishop is unacceptable, says Vatican

By Carol Glatz
Catholic News Service

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- Remarks made by a traditionalist bishop who denied that millions of Jews were murdered during World War II are unacceptable, "foolish," and in no way reflect the position of the Catholic Church, said the Vatican's top ecumenist and major dialogue partner with the Jews.

"Such gibberish is unacceptable," said German Cardinal Walter Kasper, president of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity and the Pontifical Commission for Religious Relations With the Jews in an interview with the Italian daily La Repubblica Jan. 26.

"To deny the Holocaust is unacceptable and is absolutely not the position of the Catholic Church," he said, adding that the bishop's remarks were "foolish."

...

Matthias Kopp, spokesman for the German bishops' conference, told German television ZDF Jan. 26 that, "sooner or later, Williamson will have to take back his statements," which he called unacceptable.

Germany's public prosecutor opened an investigation Jan. 23 to look into the traditionalist bishop's statements. The Swedish television interview with the bishop took place in Germany where it is illegal to deny the extermination of the Jews during the Holocaust.

http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0900394.htm

Looks like Farnaz, JDL's favorite agitator continues to agitate.

And one assumes she includes Jewish congregations in her tax-all policy. And maybe we should have the Jewish State of Israel repay the four billion dollars/year we have been providing to them for the last 20 years.

And we are still waiting for her to apologize for her Jewish ancestors and the before mentioned massacres as so vividly described in the OT.

Fortunately, the Catholic Church has priests who are seeking to document and to heal the horrors
of the Holocaust: may their work be honored and blessed.
http://www.yahadinunum.org/index.en.html

Like "WHO Is A JEW", Then "WHO iS A CATHOLIC"?

Let All the so-called 1.1 Billion , "Who is a Catholic"(s), Tithe Givers & Eucharist Lovers, Apply For at VATiCAN EMBASSYS for Vatican PASSPORTS (as in Automatic Dual Citizenship) and cry Religious-ASylum or Discrimination... and Let Them Live Inside Vatican City or Take-Over Rome by Proxy (Pope, Cardinals, Biships, Preists, Fathers, Nnone of this & Nun of That... to make Room For "OUR Children Catholics.

Remember: All Pre-Apocalyptic, Man Made Faiths, aka Beliefs or Religions, in AMERiCA, are iMPORTED Systems, Not Borneth nor Made-In-America!

Yes, This FACT Apply's To all YE Judeo-Jews, Judeo-Christs, Judeo-Islamics, Judeo-Hindu's Judeo-Buddhas... Please Do Not Be In Denials to self nor Others!

Hence: While Wholesale Prices are Down, Buy "MADE In AMERiCA" Products & Services soon as possible, not only UNiON Made Goods & Services!

Note: This is Recycled Material from DEEPAK CHOPRA today:

Acsually this is a "The Church's Should Take the Burden Off The Secular Government.." Essay. [Similar].
--

att P O L i T I C A L L Y.....1, et al;

Ye Freudiantly siath,

"..Muslims don't suffer from as a result of their religion it is lack of self respect. Read the Quran and see if any Muslim is asked to feel inferior to anybody else. Quite the contrary is true..."

Wooorrrrrrd.

PRiDE is not the Word: Let alone "Superiority Complex's"; That it's

+ Religio induced Hate (forgetfulfness)
+ Religio Jealousy Psychosis,
+ Pre-Apocalyptic Syndromes,
+ Sexual-Guilt NOAH
+ G-D's Chosen People" finatics..

THAT condones to man's Curse & or Sins, if Any [No Diety/Biblio's Required!] but instead of god instead of G-D, , all must worship via "RULE OF LAW" both Globally & Locally)

Hence a time TO:

"Think Globally & Act Locally" OR

"Think Locally & Act Globally"

i [WE] think that America is to "Think more Locally & Not-Act Globally so much as before.!

Yes, We need to take care of OUR own Kinda!

PS: For The Same Reason Churches Should , From Now On, Aggressivly Take Care Of Their own Kind; Even Offer them "In-House-Church Mortgages" Relief or Loans or Credit..)

Then American UNiONS Should All Volunteer to Absorb Their Members Mortage Defaults and or Have Each Union Member Anywhere in U.S., Federal Law, to Give-Up $1.00 Per Hour Less to their Boss's!

Note: i [WE] was in a Union(s) A good part of me Life. At Times Unions are Good, and This is the Best Time to TRULY (opposite Of MYTH) to show Their COLORS & SOLIDATiTY to All; Unionized Brothers & Sisters or None Uninionized goo U.S. Of A. "Automatic Citizenz/Denizebns Of Holyi Cosmic & Miraculous built Space-Ship Momma./Poppa Earth!

Do It Union Members!, Just Once in a Hundred Years aye Union Brothers/Sisters? , Hay; If Ye Highest Paid Folk, less $7.15 Minimum Wage, Can forego or can patiently Waith Three Years or So, w/out a Better or Renewed Contract for example; THEN

Ye Can Just as Well HELP America when America Needs Ye Most. Not Only During the 911 Clean-Up etc..!

Do not Forget The U.S. CENSUS is Comming 2010, starting This Year for next! And Sweet Sweet America Better or Needs To "Get "IT" RiGHT!

WHEREFORE: "Pick Ye Selves Up, Dust Ye Selves Off & Hold Ye Heads Up Proundly" Americans [man made Bibles Not Required; Only via Rule Of Law & Volunteerism & Accute Nationalism will DO-IT!]. Ya Ya!

Orthotox writes of Mother Russia. Yes, yes, all those slaughtered Russian Jews, murdered by the Russian Orthodox Christians. Heaven forgive us all, we have not forgotten those starved, tortured, murdered Russian Jews killed by the RussoChristians.

Let's start here, shall we? Then we'll move back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, back and....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale_of_Settlement

Click here to see the video of Bishop Williamson's take on the Holocaust. ALSO, NOTE: He asks whether anitsemitism is "a bad thing."

http://www.kathtube.com/player.php?id=7989

Looks like Farnaz, JDL's favorite agitator, was quite agitated last night, this morning and continues to be so into this afternoon.

And one assumes she includes Jewish congregations in her tax-all policy. And maybe we should have the Jewish State of Israel repay the four billion dollars/year we have been providing to them for the last 20 years.

And we are still waiting for her to apologize for her Jewish ancestors and the before mentioned massacres as so vividly described in the OT.

I looked into the Crusades and redrew all the maps,
I challenged China's claim she suffered under the Japs,
I threw the Indian's storied battles into doubt,
And found the starving Russians' stats were somewhat out;
History was a garden, mine to prune and weed,
Grafts against the roots, and fruit against the seed;
But when I set to Holocaust my humble hoe,
I learned there are some plots where I must never go,
And that scholar's zeal nor curiosity,
Should touch one leaf of that Forbidden Tree.

continued:

Let The Catholics take care Of Catholics, in America's & Elswhere!

Imagine: They (Vatican & Co., Congregants or Organized Loyalists, like Soldiers as Worshipers or Templers, as if a modern secular army is not enough) .

The Pope Should Provide a "CATHOLIC-CARE" Medical Card only to their Constituents/Members .. Like a Fraternity. Or Since They Have Many huge Hospitals, then they can Provide FREE in-house or outhouse 'Unlimited' Medical Coverage? to their "Vatican-Church & Co., Stock-Holders" Worshipers & tithe givers of Record via Shares!!

So let the Catholics take care of their own un-kinds and hence tell them to stay away from THE PUBLIC! No Hand Outs!

No :FAiTH BASED Initiative" Hand Outs (around 2 $Billion+ annually). If Ye hath Drunks & Drug Addicts Or Have a Girl who is accidentally Pregnant, Then let them ADOPT-INHOUSE via each other Church Share Holders & in their respective House-Holds!!

This act will take a big burden off Many Secular Soverign Nations. Especially in America 1st!

Heck, Unclke SAM & Aunt LIBERTY will be tickled pink!

So, VATiCAN: Give Unto Seezar Citizenz/Denizens what Belongs to the Seezer's & Take Care Of Ye Own Congregants, Not Secular Government Tax Breaks nor via anymore tax-free Hand-Outs!!

Sounds Like a Plan?? How about The Evangelical Church's???? Next!...!

This is How America et al can Quickly get out of Poverty (Debt).

F A R N Z-M A Z E M E N T..

Interesting! Even though OUR Government is "Neutral" on Religion; THAT

Note: In Sweet Sweet Secular U.S. of A., et al;

The Only Requirement to Become a 'Tax-Exempt" or RELiGiON as "Entity"? (Corporation), and According to the 5-Member CATHOLiC U.S. Dominating Supreme Court Justices,

Is 1) Be SINCERE; 2) Meet at a Place (Private) & 3) Have reasoanable Followers.

But there is an 'intendentional' catch in allowing such 'Privilidge' (not a Right) to any Religion, and it is THiS

"Regodless of the several 50 States that Any Church, Religion & It's Congregant(s) (Fraternity, splintered or not) must Uphold This U.S. Constitution 1st, AND

NO-not theirs as if their 'un-Holy iNFIXUS-BOOKS' [Abrahamic: Tenach, Bible, Quran, Vedeic: Geeta, Tripitaka, Sruti..] gives them Superiarity or overide!?? i believe it's called Fiduciary Responsibility; both Private & or Public!!

Question: How many of Them "EUCHARiST" lovers, in AMERiCA, not Italy, via their Pedphile Church's (of which popes defended & Financed from Perp to Court) Hath gone to Prison??

--- iMPORTANT: If The-Pope & Church want to 'Do The Right Thing" THEN;

Why are not the Vatican & Co. Churches Own Prison System not utilized likes Holding, out of sight out of mind, those Men/Lady's cloth who commit Atrocity's or act like or with Terrorists International???

i.e., Please See Vaticans own MAMERTINE PRiSON & other 'Lock-Ups"!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mamertine_Prison

Soo, Why not Deport, or Xtradite, from America or other soverign Nations, their Pedphilia Guilty Bishops, Cardinals,Fathers/Priests/Revvrends/Rabbi's etc.. to MAMMERTIME PRiSON????

And Besides incarserating Thier-Own?, Another "Good & Right Thing The Rich or fat-cat Vatican can do Is,

SINCE talking about "WE TAKE CARE OF OUR OWN" Papacy attitude, is Besides Giving Each Tithe Giver rightful-Shares into the Cathoholic Church's Bank or Pie, is to

Let The Catholics take care Of Catholics, in America's & Elswhere!

It's only logical because The CHURCH Promised to Be 'Seperate from GOVERNMENT. Why should The Secular Government Pay to Maintain a Chatholic when the Church, not State Must, not only Can!!!!??????? That' the CRUX of the New Song coming from Old. No, No "RAPTURE", aka Zillzal, TekKun, KARMA!

"So the Question Is: AS a long time Devout-MEMBER (think Share Holder) of The U.S. Catholic Church via VAtican; then HOW MUCH is i [WE] Worth Per Every "House-Hold" (not every Man Woman & Childs)."

Interesting. And it gets more so. The Vatican is a nation. As a nation, it is not entitled to tax exempt status for its politicking in the US. Yet, because its ideology, Catholicism, is taken as a religion,it gets tax exempt status in the US, on condition of which, it may not interfere in the politics of this nation. However, as a religion it continually violates that condition, lobbying ceaseless against abortion, for instance, and using the money it gets from its tax exempt status to pay Washington Lobbyists.

To sum up, as a nation, it is not entitled to tax exempt status. As a nation, it is violating the laws of the United States in its hiring of Lobbyists. Hence, its violation of the requirements of tax exempt status is almost a moot point since it is receiving that status erroneously.

The Vatican nation owes the United States of America hundreds of millions of dollars, if not more, and its tax exempt status should be revoked immediately. Further, the Vatican nation must be enjoined from politicking in the United States of America. This, I don't think would prevent individual Catholic ideologues from politicking.

This probably merits further consideration, a web site, perhaps, letters to senators, Congressmen, etc. Particularly, in our current economic distress, we can ill afford to fund destructive foreign agitators.

Continued part 3 of 3:

Soo, justly as much as Being a "Tax-Exempt, Corp." is A Privilege and never was intended as a Right here,

2)

THAT

If them "Priestly Fraternity of St Pius X's" do not Dissolve their own (Going Underground shall not be permitted, else hunt them Down under International Court) Fraternal Corporation;

THEN

REMOVE The American Catholic Churches & Co’s 'Tax-Exempt Status’s! Permanently! Time to Experience “Structural Un-Employment Sisters & Brothers.” Note: All Pre-Apocalyptic [man-Made, zero god penned such] System’s in America , are ALL iMPORTED FAiTHs, Religions, or Belief SYSTEMS! & surely Zero/NOT-MADE IN Sweet Sweet AMERiCA!!!!! So time to Deport-All-Pre-Apocalyptic Practicing/Behaving Tax-Free (Persisting off the Seculars Necks, Sweat & Blood) Organized Imported Religions!

AND , OR;

Every 2nd Generation effected "HOLOCAUST" Victim (includes Veterans from WWII) should File , a Class Action for MONEY-DAMAGES & Mental Anguish reason’s ; in the INTERNATiONAL COURT of JUSTiCE (Not Spain & Co.,) and or Locally; Against [.vs.] The VATiCAN & CO. International! No Escape! Time to Corner Them not US in U.S.!

-- AMAZiNG.

Please see this NY Post Excerpt on How The International Religio Mafiosi's via "Vatican & Co." wants their 'Protection Money' Back:

"Insurance giant AIG is short-changing the Catholic Church by refusing to pay on a policy the Brooklyn Diocese took out for claims against pervert priests, the church claims in a lawsuit.

According to the suit filed in Brooklyn Supreme Court, AIG has refused to cover a settlement the diocese negotiated with the parents of a girl allegedly abused between the ages of 11 and 14 by the Rev. James Smith at St. Kevin's Roman Catholic Church in Flushing.

Michael Dowd, the lawyer who represented the girl said the case was settled for $2 million, plus the ongoing cost of psychotherapy."

Behold the Epoch & Century of the Worlds Interfaith X-Chang & Creation of the O.ne U.niversal R.eligio BOOK” (OUR-BOOK, not theirs!) A NEW-SONG cometh from ALL “OUR” OLDY’s, that still hath some Goody’s in them, but to share prophetically & Equally unto [Genuine ] End of time via TIME (Holyi Temperature, not Clock time nor space timing).

Hark! Sing Unto the Holyi No-Man/Womb a NEW-Song for OUR’s & Due-To-Be, MEME’s , OUR Space-Forth & Future-Bounder’s the Holyi Space-Ship Earth’s & World’s thereto!!

End.?

Looks like Farnaz, JDL's favorite agitator, was quite agitated last night and continues to be so into the late morning.

Still waiting for her to apologize for her Jewish ancestors and the before mentioned massacres as so vividly described in the OT.

continued..

So the Question Is: AS a long time Devout-MEMBER (think Share Holder) of The U.S. Cathoholic Church via VAtican; then HOW MUCH is i [WE] Worth Per Every "House-Hold" (not every Man Woman & Childs).

Example i know a Couple [pbu them] whom hath bequeath over $150,000 & tithed at least that much to a Church in Brooklyn, N.Y [Prime Real State]...

Soo, Should at least the Survivors Know (by Being proven, proven Share Holders/members, Congregants, Parishes etc.., with Proof , of their Religio Organization preservations) How Much their Loved Ones Pumped into The for Profit, instead of for Prophet Organization??

Imagine: THEN,

One Share-Holder (Congregant or Survivor or Beneficiary, besides Fiduciary Responsibility’s by both Vatican & Preacher to their flock of god fearer‘s, aka children of church?)

Can Approach a Banker & Say, Look Mr. Money-Grabs, i [WE] am a 1/100millionth Share Holder of the Arch Dicis Of America, Corp. And i [We] would like to borrow money against, i [WE] portion of the ST. PATRiCKS CATHERDRAL or the TRINiTY CHURCH et al, both only in Manhattan Landa!"

Heck: Now The Banks can Have some thing else to 'Collateralize' & thus Start Lending, of Giving Back Money to THE-PEOPLE!

continued

att F A R N A Z-2, et al;

On:WHAT TO DO NEXT :

As i [WE] mentioned below; THAT

".... Priestly Fraternity of St Pius X, the breakaway organization founded by Archbishop Lefebvre in Switzerland ....." [Similar] THAT

Their (not OUR) 'Fraternity' (meaning a for profit & Not-For-prophet, as a Corporate as ENTiTY) Must forever DISSOLVE itself as a [Perpetual?] international Corporation/Entity! Or risk being mass Suid Locally & international VATICAN et al.

IF they Flout, like Iran or Evade their responsibility's, or pretend they do not hear US; "Automatic Born Citizenz/Denizens of Holyi Cosmic & Miraculous, NEBULA-Built, Space-Ship" (WE are zero Born in any Man-Made writings as if Birth is really via someone elses SIN & Curseth Story's (not OUR G-D), THEN

There are Two Ways To "KiLL" Them International Peddling VATiCAN & CO., Regodless their (not OUR) Religio Pretexts via WORD MERCHANTiZING Renegade , split, branched, directed, exploded etc.. Member therefrom & thereto.

To way's To Kill the Cannibals & Vampires of the un-holyi EUCHARIST Lovers:

1) Start in United States: All The VATiCAN Cathoholic Churches Of AMERiCA, in order to help stimulate the Economy here & elswhere, should De"DiVEST"-itself of ALL, Every & Any It's ASSETS

{Cathedrals, Land, Tangibles... Accounts Receivables & Payables, Bank Account’s; Local & abroad etc..} AND

since the VATiCAN has their own international DIPLOMATIC status (a Privileged? & not a Right)in Tax Haven Sovereigns}

That they should Put-Together [or be Compelled By Secular Federal State LAW] a iNiTial Public Offering (IPO) and sell their locks, Stocks & Barrels (Except their-god, not OUR G-D) to All

Their Member's,

of such Organized Religio Places of, whom hath, for Years (longer than some Mortgages) been Tithing their LiFe SAViNG (Pumping into the Church?) over fo atleast 5% or 10% or 15% or 20% or 25% + of weekly/Monthly incomes?, Plus After-Death Payables?)

Shall, in All Fairness, be entitled to get their CHURCH-SHARE" ot STOCK or Portion. A Hidden INHERETENCE by the Church's????

continued...

From the Independent

Pope readmits Holocaust-denying priest to the church

By Philip Willan in Rome
Sunday, 25 January 2009

The Vatican stirred a diplomatic maelstrom yesterday when it announced that it had lifted the excommunication of four rebel bishops, including the British Holocaust-denier Richard Williamson.

The decree repealing the 20-year-old Vatican punishment, imposed after the traditionalist French Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre consecrated the four as bishops in defiance of the Pope's authority, was signed on Wednesday by Cardinal Giovanni Battista Re, the Prefect for the Congregation of Bishops. This coincided with the broadcast on Swedish state television of an interview with Mr Williamson in which the breakaway bishop denied the Holocaust.

"I believe there were no gas chambers... I think that 200,000 to 300,000 Jews perished in Nazi concentration camps but none of them by gas chambers," he told SVT television in an interview that was recorded in Germany last November. "There was not one Jew killed by the gas chambers. It was all lies, lies, lies!"

Mr Williamson, 68, who is the rector of the Seminary of Our Lady Co-Redemptrix in La Reja, Argentina, is no stranger to controversy. He has endorsed "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion", a notorious anti-Semitic forgery, and claimed that Jews are bent on world domination. He supports conspiracy theories on the assassination of President Kennedy and the attacks on the Twin Towers in New York, and has accused the Vatican of being under the power of Satan.

The Vatican's decision comes at a time of heightened sensitivity in its dealings with Israel following the bloodshed in Gaza. Pope Benedict XVI recently ruffled feathers in Israel by expressing the hope that regional elections would produce a new generation of leaders in the Middle East capable of making peace, as did Cardinal Renato Martino, the President of the Pontifical Council of Justice and Peace, when he likened Gaza to a concentration camp. Jewish leaders, including Rome's chief rabbi, Riccardo Di Segni, had urged Pope Benedict not to lift the ban and to reiterate the Vatican's condemnation of Holocaust denial.

PART II from the Independent

The head of the Vatican press office, Father Federico Lombardi, said that there was no connection between Mr Williamson's views and the decision to lift his excommunication. "The Vatican has acted in relation to the excommunication and its removal for the four bishops, an action that has nothing to do with the highly criticisable statements of an individual," Fr Lombardi told reporters.

Vatican Radio also pointed out that Mr Williamson's statements had been severely condemned by other members of the Priestly Fraternity of St Pius X, the breakaway organisation founded by Archbishop Lefebvre in Switzerland.

Bishop Bernard Fellay, the head of the fraternity and another of the rebel bishops readmitted into communion with the Catholic church, said the TV interview was an attempt to defame the organisation.

Archbishop Lefebvre broke with the Vatican over his opposition to the modernising reforms of the Second Vatican Council and, in particular, his refusal to give up the traditional Latin mass. He was excommunicated by Pope John Paul II in 1988 after illegally consecrating the four bishops.

For Pope Benedict, the lifting of the excommunication heals a wound that had festered for 20 years and readmits a thriving community that has 150,000 followers in more than 20 countries. But what should have been a joyous occasion, ending what the Vatican called "the scandal of division", will be overshadowed by the Williamson interview.

att: F R E D R i C K2, et al:

B R E A K i N G -- N E W s:

"Holocaust-denying bishop apologizes"

Please:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1233304642243&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull .

Excerpt: " Bishop Richard Williamson, who recently denied in a TV interview that 6 million Jews were murdered during the Holocaust, called his remarks "iMPRUDENT." ????

Not Good Enough!!!

If This, Renegade of Vatican-2 of 1962-65's, "WORD's MERCHANT's" , want 'Forgiveness?" & in order In Order to Show, the World ,via His & his secret Society's Co.' so-called "Imprudent Blunder?, then "WE, The PEOPLE" of Holyi Cosmic NEBULA-Built, Space-Ship Earth DEMAND, yes DEMAND That , as "Good-Faith"

That The ultraconservative "Society of St. Pius X" et al, Be FOREVER DiSOLVE! No Bankruptcy filing needed! Just make sure ye pay ye tax's to the Vatican before ye put the last nail in the

ultraconservative Society of St. Pius X,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_St._Pius_X

Then & Only Then will THE-DEAD stop rolling Over in Thier Mass Graves etc..! Note: Not Only For Judeo-Jews, but also Dead Americans & Friendly's Killed In Action in Normandy invasion etc.. & Judeo-Christians & Judeo-Islamics & Judeo-Hindu's & Judeo=Buddhists, Gypsy's, Non-Straights etc...

iNteresting:
If & only If Mr. Williamson & Co., Disolve, showeth "good-FAiTH?" to this "Blue-Ball's" AUTOMATiC Citizenz/Denizens, aka Residences, Then i [WE] Predict that Renegae/Runnaway Splinter Groups like HAM-Oss's & HAZingBuly's & Co, will also have to Disolve or simply all be forced to move to Iran forever!

Note: Iran (islam) is NOT-ARAB (Persian/Farsi) & has 30-Provinces & suddenly VENEZUALiA, Lebanon & Gaza & Syria (Iranian, not Persian, Theocratfinatics occupers) makes it 34. Or is it More?

Question: Is this why Iran can Build Proxy Provinces because it now sais, "Israel is Americas 51st State..???" [Similar]. Remember, Afghanistan is also stealthly part of Iran! Note: Is Florida the 6th Borough of NYC??? Or is CUBA

Amazing! His Honor. King CYRUS The GREAT II(PBUH, a Zorostrian, not Muslom), unless the Ayatollah's converted him into Islam while Dead or pergatude?, is also rolling over in his Crib, so to spaketh Ayatollah blasphemy!

Please see CYRUS the imancipater of BABYLONian Surviving Judeo-Jews! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_the_Great

Note: It Was The Ayatollah's whom HOLOCAUSTED 5,000,000 poor Zoroastrians (Judeo_MAZDAians), because they (Arab Islam) Stole their Religion & combined Judaism to lay claim to their (not OUR) Desert & Mountain god, INSTEAD Of G-D!

Thanks to the Judeo-Hindu's (India, who not only protected & harbored Jews at from Cochin; mid West Coast) that Saved the MAZDAians!

iNCAMERA (secret) JUDEO-ism (Monotheism), Passover-line Monotheism, Laws etc.. was Borrowed from Ahura Mazda (a Georgian) teachings.

Remember: All JUDEO's are ZOROASTRiANS!

KOODHA OOHFEZ! (Peace).

As a Catholic I am deeply embarrassed by the generally clueless performance that Pope Benedict is turning in. Like his off hand remarks about Islam at Regensburg, he does not seem to understand the imlications of his actions and words. (Churches were burned and a nun killed in Somalia because his intellectual self-indulgence.) There is a time for Papal boldness, but his retraction of the excommunication of the bishops of the SSPX has been a disaster at two levels. One level ignored the anti-semitism that is present in that splinter group and the invitable confusion retraction would produce without explicit repentence on the part of the SSPX. The second level is the eroding of the authority of the Second Vatican Council to make reunion attractive to the SSPX: pandering to these right wing extremists jerks the Church into a dangerous direction of restoration of the worst features of the past.

The apparent lack of collaboration by Benedict with Vatican figures with broader world views has once again put the Church in a defensive mode. Repair work will have to be done. The question is how many times can that happen and what is the mounting cost of these major faux pas? At some point the human community will conclude that Benedict is best ignored. Catholics will have yet another reason to doubt whether the current crop of ecclesiastical leadership is up to its task,

Bishop Williamson, btw, also endorses the nefarious forgery of the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", maybe one of the biggest and worst forgeries of all times, together with the "Constantine donation".

And Ratzinger embraces him.

Just to make clear with which garbage we unfortunately have to deal.

Sub specie aeternitatis, ALL religion is an ephemeral deviation, a proof of the insufficient state of human development. Religion is the desperate attempt to rationalize human ignorance, using superstition which earlier might have served as a tribal bond.

Maybe it will serve as a means for the extinction of the human species. Others, better equipped species, have vanished from the surface of the earth.

The unforgivable part is that humans stick to the cozy feeling of ignorance and superstition in spite of all available evidence against it.

Paganplace, Paganplace, Paganplace,

A Wiccan curse should suffice and definitely help your blood pressure.

Yaknow, Mr.Pope. Dude.

You start validating right-wing Neocon stuff in any way they can imagine, say, like denying the Holocaust, why , you might just have people discussing mostly-Christian religion, who somehow figure it's more pious to think 'The Nazis were gay,' than to remember 'The Nazis killed queer people by the millions alongside Jews.'

Lest we forget.

Or, as we say in the old country,

Nothing's forgotten.

*ranteyness*

Listen. Pope dude.

You wanna be 'reassuring' you don't rll everyone how utterly horrible I am, then *piss around with 'forgiving' 'unrepentant' Nazis.*

Gods.

is that so hard to grasp?

I mean. Gods. Whoever you are,columnist

Understand this.

May it please all Gods good and true and friends of humanity and Earth, but I'm a freeborn citizen of the United States of America, not some thrall some pope or preacher can tell to let it slide when some dude that can presume to 'forgive' nazis, molesters, and enablers thereof, endorese the 'piety' of *Bush,* then turn around and tell people they're going to his 'Hell' if they don't figure they haven't been irational *enough* toward the human family...

I am a freeborn citizen of the United States of America.

If some Pope decides he wants to 'embrace' people spouting Nazi ideologies as regards Jews, as he's done with queers, well.

Talk at me *one* more time about what you think my religion or my orientation, or my committed relationship is a 'slippery slope' to...

I say...
Say it to my face.

I mean, I'm sorry. Maybe you didn't have a choice but to play along with the Hitlerjungen and their enablers and their 'educators'

Neither did I. I didn't have a choice, obedience, compliance, or... death, they said, when the priests were on the make, the teachers were all so educated or thinking Catholic kids were scum, everyone knew you were queer and either an easy victim or ready to be beaten for whatever your *f'n Christian damage is* Yeah. Choices. Conformity, or death.

I chose defiance.

This is not Hollywood, there's no grand reward for this. Where i've sttod, many have fallen, while people gloated about their piety.

I just lived to tell. And I would like to go my own way in peace as freeborn American citizen.

You wanna undo an excommunication of the most popular pope anyone knows about, which is.. well, not you, Il Papa, *heh* maybe you and your sheep don't get up in my business about my humble and quiet little lezzie life, maybe I won't call you on acting like a fricking *Nazi.*

But it's al part of the package, right?

'Representative of Christ on earth?'

When's those midterms?

Yaknow, if a Pope wants to be anything but 'someone who terrorizes my Chrisitan friends and relatives about sex and death,' he doesn't need to 'reassure' anyone about how it's 'really Ok' to be 'morally relative' about virulent anti-Semites,'
but unacceptable to vote for anyone pragmatic about human plumbing and self-determination...

He's actually gotta say 'no' to the F'n Nazis before he gets off telling me I'm damned.

*spit.*

Come tell me about Justice, forgiveness and ultimate divine orders to the universe after you work that one out, spud.

Gods.

Is this what the world's come to?

Looks like JDL's favorite agitator was quite agitated last night and continues to be so this morning!!!

Still waiting for her to apologize for her Jewish ancestors and the before mentioned massacres as so vividly described in the OT.

PART I

From The Times
January 26, 2009

Dismay as Pope welcomes back Holocaust bishop Richard Williamson
Pope Benedict XVI

Richard Owen in Rome

Pope Benedict XVI’s rehabilitatation of a British bishop who denies that millions of Jews died in Nazi gas chambers has alarmed Catholics who fear it risks dealing a fatal blow to the inter-faith dialogue promoted by his predecessor.

Over the weekend the Pope issued a decree welcoming back into the Roman Catholic Church Richard Williamson, 68, and three other breakaway bishops excommunicated by John Paul II in 1988. The bishops had been ordained without Vatican permission by the renegade French archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, who rejected the reforms of the Second Vatican Council.

The Vatican decree referred to the need to overcome the “scandal of divisiveness” and seek reconciliation and “full communion” with Lefebvre’s order, the ultra-conservative Society or Fraternity of St Pius X. It lifted the excommunication not only of Bishop Williamson, rector of the Seminary of Our Lady Co-Redemptrix in La Reja, Argentina, but also of Bernard Fellay, the leader of the order, Alfonso de Gallareta, and Tissier de Mallerais.

Renzo Gattegna, head of the Union of Jewish Communities in Italy, said the rehabilitation of Bishop Williamson was “terrible not only for Jewish people but for the whole of humanity”. He said that Italian Jews would refuse to take part in joint prayers with Christians on Tuesday marking Holocaust Day, known in Italy as “The Day of Memory”.

Some Vatican officials are also saying privately that although the Pope’s stated aim was to unite the Church by bringing the rebels back into the fold, his move would have the opposite effect. “The Church will pay a price for this” one Vatican prelate said. “The Pope is undermining the legacy of John Paul II.”

Benedict’s actions are also reviving his old nickname when he was Cardinal Ratzinger — that of the “Panzerkardinal”, known for his hardline conservatism as head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

“This is not so much an act of grace as a surrender,” the veteran Vatican watcher Marco Politi said. Benedict wanted a new era of reconciliation, “but the new era has begun with a lie. The Pope has made a openly declared and unshakeable anti-Semite a legitimate Bishop”.

Lefebvre, who died in 1991, had set up “a fanatical and reactionary counter-Church which openly contested, repudiated and defamed all the crucial points of Vatican II, from respect for the Jews to modernisation of the liturgy”. There are an estimated 500 Lefebvrist bishops and 600,000 followers worldwide.

Gianni Gennari, a theologian and contributor to the Italian Catholic daily Avvenire, said it was “shameful that the lifting of the excommunications was not accompanied by any repentance whatever on the part of the Lefebvrists”.

PART II

Bishop Williamson, who has said that the Vatican is controlled by Satan and that the Jews are bent on world domination, reiterated in a broadcast last week on Swedish television that the historical evidence was “hugely against six million having been deliberately gassed in gas chambers as a deliberate policy of Adolf Hitler. I believe there were no gas chambers”.

He added: “I think that 200,000 to 300,000 Jews perished in Nazi concentration camps, but none of them by gas chambers.”

Prosecutors in Regensburg in Germany, where the interview took place — and where the Pope once studied and taught — have opened an inquiry. Holocaust denial is an offence under German law.

Father Federico Lombardi, the papal spokesman, insisted the lifting of the excommunications had “absolutely nothing to do” with Williamson’s views on the Holocaust. “One is not connected to the other,” he said. Vatican Radio said Williamson’s statements had been condemned by other members of the St Pius X fraternity.

This month Elia Enrico Richetti, the chief rabbi of Venice, said Jews had been deeply offended by the reintroduction by the Pope in March of a Good Friday Latin prayer for the conversion of the Jews as part of the revived Tridentine Mass. “We are moving toward the cancellation of 50 years of Church history” the rabbi said.

Other Catholic-Jewish tensions include plans by the Pope to beatify Pius XII, the wartime pontiff accused by critics of failing to speak out in defence of Jews. The Vatican insists that Pius helped the Jews while avoiding public statements that would have made matters worse, and has demanded the removal of a plaque attacking him at the Yad Vashem Holocaust memorial in Jerusalem.

The Pope has twice visited synagogues, in the US and his native Germany, and sought to make amends with the Islamic world after a speech at Regensburg two years ago in which he appeared to suggest that Islam was inherently violent and irrational. However, he recently declared that inter-religious dialogue “in the strict sense of the word” between Christians, Jews and Muslims was “not possible”.

Do some of you wonder why Pope Benedict XVI was nicknamed 'Pope Rat' by many in and outside the Roman Catholic Church as soon as it was announced he had been 'elected' Pope?

Think about it.

Looks like JDL's favorite agitator is quite agitated this evening.

Still waiting for her to apologize for her Jewish ancestors and the before mentioned massacres as so vividly described in the OT.

Once she does this maybe, just maybe we will explain to her how we "Crossanized" the RCC many years ago.

"Pope Benedict's decision to undo the excommunication of Bishop Richard Williamson, an unrepentant Holocaust denier"

This opening statement appears to be intentionally misleading. The SSPX bishops were not excommunicated for being Holocaust deniers, as this sentence insinuates, so repenting of that position has nothing to do with lifting their excommunications.

"other Church observers speak more ominously, claiming that Vatican II is "not a dogma of faith," and therefore no barrier to the reintegration of SSPX faithful into the Church."

This is just downright weird. Vatican II was a Council of the Church. It operates under the same rules of infallibility as the pope himself. The pope could no more denounce Vatican II than he could the Nicene Creed.

The complaints that the bishops should remain excommunicated (and therefore consigned to Hell) because they remain antisemitic are non-sequiturs. Denying the Holocaust when you hold a position of responsibility is probably a grave sin, which no doubt threatens these bishops' immortal souls, but that is up to God to decide. It is not an excommunicatable offense.

I do not believe that the Pope fully understood all aspects of what he was signing this week. That is the most charitable assessment I can make. Even if I take that as a given, I must still assess this week as a terrible failure for the Church. I am a Catholic who is appalled by the hatred and stupidity of the Saint Pius X Society and their leaders. Bishop Williamson is a hateful man. I hope that Pope Benedict reviews what has happened and sincerely apologizes in public to the Jewish people and to the Catholic Church. I hope that Bishop Williamson is brought to heel. Let him kneel in the cold at Auschwitz for a few days, let him confront Holocaust survivors, immerse him in the records of trains delivering thousands of starved and beaten Jews from across Europe. Bishop Williamson's half hearted, stupid apology today is just more gasoline on the fire. The Pope also should figure out how his staff failed to understand the gravity of what he was doing, and he ought to fire those responsible. Absent real apologies, real reform, and real apologies from all those concerned, this episode will be seen as the starting point of a new schism where Catholics who practiced faithfully while these wingnuts did their thing decided to leave.

No one with any moral sense should give these catholics the time of day.

Let us remember with whom we're dealing. Vatican Bank is being sued by Jews, Serbian Orthodox, and Roma, survivors and heirs of the Shoah, Holocaust, Porajmos. Fifteen hundred Croation Franciscan priests cut to pieces living people (Jews, Serb Orthodox, Roma), stole their money and deposited it in Vatican Bank. The ponce pope and predecessors are fighting the suit.

Bishop Hudal, a nazi stationed in Rome, under Pacelli, pius XII, organized the RatLine, which, with the help of the racist International Red Cross (still racist) helped JOSEF MENGELE (CATHOLIC), Stengel (Catholic), and any number of other catholic and christian nazis to escape justice.

Thank God the Israeli Rabbinate severed ties with the Vatican, but it is not enough. No Jews should have anything to do with them. Further, the state of Israel should not be wasting tax dollars and Jewish lives protecting the catholics' "holy sites" like the church of the nativity. If the poncey racist catholics want them protected, pay up and send catholics to protect them, if they aren't too busy molesting little boys.

Finally, ISRAEL MUST MAKE PUBLIC THE VATICAN'S OIL HOLDINGS AS IT CONTINUALLY THREATENS TO DO. DO IT. THESE PEOPLE HAVE NO MORAL CACHE, NO CREDIBILITY.

I can only think that the Pope and his advisors made a bad decision in this case. However, all the moral outrage rings pretty hollow after the recent acts of Israel in Gaza.

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You want to defend your pope and his decisions? Go right ahead. Don't obscure the issues by attacking me. My posts aren't intended for ratzinger defenders, but for any Jews who might be worried about human garbage, and any Catholics whose souls might be saved.

The answer, Jews, doesn't lie in blogging or in discussions. Evil garbage is evil garbage. When it stinks, we know it's time.

CCNL, these are your people right? The Hitler Youth pope and his Pinochet Loving Holocaust Denier. Look at the history of your institution. There's no way out, no way out. I could post on it from now until the end of time. You're just a little brainwashed catholic school boy. Your better side is dragged down into hell by that.

The JDL must be paying Farnaz double time this evening as she is really on a anti-Catholic rant!!!

And we are still waiting for her to apologize on the behalf of the Jews (even though she supposedly is an atheist- strange!) for the atrocities committed by Moses against his fellow Jews, Joshua and his army's slaughter of all the people of Jericho, Ai, Gibeon, Makeddah, Libnah, Lachish, Eglon, Hebron, Debir, Hazor, the Jews' slaughter of all the men, boys and married women among the Midianites plus taking 32,000 virgins as booty, and the atrocities listed in Judges, Samuel and Chronicles.

Or are all these stories myths as is most of the OT as concluded by the majority of today's Conservative Jews making Israel's claims to Jerusalem and Palestine historically untenable??

The JDL must be paying Farnaz double time this evening as she is really on a anti-Catholic rant!!!

And we are still waiting for her to apologize on the behalf of the Jews (even though she supposedly is an atheist- strange!) for the atrocities committed by Moses against his fellow Jews, Joshua and his army's slaughter of all the people of Jericho, Ai, Gibeon, Makeddah, Libnah, Lachish, Eglon, Hebron, Debir, Hazor, the Jews' slaughter of all the men, boys and married women among the Midianites plus taking 32,000 virgins as booty, and the atrocities listed in Judges, Samuel and Chronicles.

Or are all these stories myths as is most of the OT making Israel's claims to Jerusalem and Palestine historically untenable??

You know how those catholics are. Maybe, ratzinger and williamson are doing it. Yuck.

Say it ain't so, Joe. Morally bankrupt? Can't be. Bring me that cute little altar boy there, the one whose brother this old ponce priest did t'other day.
I do believe next week I should go get me some treatment.

Oh. Gee. Shock, and I do believe, awe. The Catholic Church is morally bankrupt. Is it possible? How on earth could it be? Jeeze Luise. Holy Moly. Jesus, Mary, and Uncle JOe. Pass the money, honey. Can I get an Amen? Can you give me a Hallelujah Holy Dollar.

You can take the boy out of the Nazi, but you cannot take the Nazi out of the boy.

The attitude of the Pope constitutes - in my opinion - the very definition of cynicism.
It was my impression that the Catholic Church and its highest authority stood for truth. This Pope chose to act - quite selfishly - without any regard to anything or anybody outside the Catholic Church. This is an attitude comparable to that of Iran's president or that of Fidel Castro or Hugo Chavez or Evo Morales.
But then again why am I surprised? This is historically consistent with the attitude of the Catholic Church, in general, with one noticeable exception that of Pope John Paul II.
The damage, the hurt, the insult perpetrated by this Pope and the blind barbaric statements of Williamson are a historical fact as much as it is a historical fact that 6,000,000 Jews perished by the hands of German Nazis.
Does the Pope think that by stating - as opposed to acting out - an apology his aberration will be forgotten? No.
Does Williamson think that by sending an apologetic letter to the Pope the world will forget him? No. By saying what he is saying and by acting the way he is acting Williamson is comparable to another fine example of humanity's scum: Hitler.

I saw Germany after WWII. My relatives helped liberate the camps. I saw the concentration camps. I saw the people with tattoos on their arms. I also studied German and Russian history during my undergraduate and masters studies. I am neither blind nor stupid. Bishop Williamson and the SSPX are. The Pope must be as well.

I cannot believe that the Catholic Church which in so many ways facilitated the persecution of Jews before and during WWII would act as if their priests, etc. can do and say whatever they want. Pedophile priests; archbishops denying the Holocaust happened. Bonhoeffer spoke loudly about the cost of being a Christian -- apparently the Catholic church doesn't believe that their priests, archbishops, etc. need to be held to any standard at all. For shame!!
It makes me wonder what this Pope learned in Nazi Germany....
Obviously, the Pope is NOT infallible.

There is absolutely no question in Pope Benedict's mind of the inviolability of Vatican II or Nostra Aetate. I am beginning to believe that this bombastic outrage is being orchestrated to deflect from more serious concerns about the Jewish State and the state of Judaism, like Gaza now and Lebanon before that. I suppose this makes me an anti-semite too. So be it. I 'll live with it with a clear conscience before Adonai, the Just One who judges all things perfectly.

Jude Gentile, Syracuse, NY

All religions are historically and theologically flawed as seen from hindsight, modern knowledge and common sense. The RCC is no exception. B16 should be cleaning up the mess but he is just making things worse because of his Three B Syndrome i.e. being Bred, Born and Brainwashed in the RCC.

There is no doubt that Rabbis Abraham Cooper and Yitzchok Adlerstein suffer also from the Three B Syndrome i.e. being Bred, Born and Brainwashed in in the flaws and errors of Judaism. We suggest before they pass quick judgments in the future that they reveiw the many atrocities carried out against non-Jews as vividly noted in the OT.

Ooooooopppssaa.

Before inclusion by the "United States of LEVANTURKia" into the EUROPEAN-UNiON, aka "U.S. of UMMA of Euro States" that; THEY

must 'Unconditionaly Renounce (Not ALLAH, G-D, Ishvara..) their Allegence & or Membership of the "Arab LEAGUE" of 1945 & the "Organization of ISLAMIC-Countrys" of 1971.

Imagine a Religious-Free Constitution for the "United States of the LEVANTiA." And israel is one State & Palistine is another etc.. All under the 'secular' EURO influence: Sepate from the Finatic 'Sharia, Halakah, caste.. Sytems of the Arab South!? And in a way, seperate from Aerica influence; so the U.S. can concentrate of other Prophetic endeavours, but in Secular & nomore the Religious!

If [IF?] we can seperate the SECULAR States from the Sharia. Halakaha, Caste RELiGiO Systems, includes Nomore Monarchy & Theocracy, THEN & only then

Genuine "Salaam, Shalom, Peace, Paz, Mir, Frieden, Ahimsa, Zhingyu... " Prophetically Cometh Space-Ship Earth much sooner.

Yes We can! Yes We can!

if ye only giveth PEACE.... a chance again & again & again?

PS: Israel will have to Discard Her Seat on the U.N. & Discard It's Currency: This apply's To All new LEVANTia Members: Israel, Leban, Syria, Jordan, Palistine + Turkey!

PS two: i.e., Israel & Members of The "U.S. of LTS" must surrender their Foreign Embassy's & or avoid reduncy's & Conflicts of interest via International Agreements, both Private & Public!

but that can be worked of too.

And the FLAG should have MARS & or the MOON on it & if it makes them mutualy happy, include their religious SYMBOLS, not OURs, of all their Pre-Apocalyptic Five Major Religions: Judeo-Jew, Christs, Islamics & Vedic-Hindu's & Buddhas! Note; Religio Ornaments not included. AND

They can Practice their Languages along with English, which will prevail.

Holy Mother of Punk, is this for real?

(why do I even ask.)

"But boy Oh boy...if you ever question the Jewish account, you are in trouble. My question to Rabbi is, with all due respect, doesn't it sound odd to you that the entire human history is open to questioning except one event that, perhaps, if and when opened to questioning may turn out to be something different than what you claim."

Unbelievable. Simply unbelievable.

Only a xenophobic right wing Fox watcher can imagine there's a "side" to an issue where there is no side, an opposition when the only opposition is to deny history itself.

I have no axe to grind. I'm not Jewish, and I surely am not Christian (I've never seen a more contemptible lot, this being a case in point.)

To posit that people are being oversensitive when the documented and indisputable reality of six million deaths has occurred, and further, hiding behind the illusion of objectivity while doing it like some truth crusader, well, that's the most insidious display of filthy bigotry I've seen in a lifetime.

Oh, and such nice manners about it! Oh, pardon me! Oh, with all due respect! Just save it.

"...may turn out to be something different than what you claim" my posterior: there are photographs, films, eyewitness accounts, and survivors.

Survivors, you idiot, with numbers tattooed on their skin. Marked for life by this unspeakable horror for which you seek credibility in denying, in some sort of grotesque academic exercise you just dreamt up as a crusader for what? Truth? Or as a way of rationalizing the actions of your pathetic earth-god?

You aren't getting away with rewriting history here for the sake of defending this Pope, there, Josef. Just forget it. This genocide occurred as surely as the Israeli genocide of Palestinians occurs today.

"The Pope handles souls, and denying the holocaust (while it is very wrong to do so) should really change the way that person's salvation through Jesus works? No."

This is precisely what's wrong with Christianity. You have no moral compass. None. You stick out your chest and claim there'd be no morality without your superstition, but it really comes down to this: all you need for a "Get Out Of Hell Free" card is John 3:16.

So your generals can slaughter thousands of innocent people in the name of God, your Presidents can destroy our way of life, your doctors can deny women medical care, you can blow up family planning centers and gay bars, you can discriminate, you can kick people in the teeth when they're down, you can deny the horrors perpetrated on an entire people based on differences in that superstition, and it's all just peachy because your invisible daddy told you that no matter what you do in real life, you'll be taken care of after you're dead if you'll only believe in his invisible boy.

Somebody, please, deliver me from this fairy tale nonsense. How many must die for medieval superstition?

iMAGINE:

--
O.ne U.niversal R.eligion is-US!

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United States of The LEVANT
where (North) is Seperate from
the (South) ARABiA. A Prophecy
whose time is cometh.
--

YES WE CAN!

Salaam, Shalom, Peace, Paz, Mir, Frieden, Ahimsa, Zhingyu...
--

EXPLANATiON: Secular-T U R K E Y, before expecting to be a EURO Member or 'Absorbed & Embraced' therein as a family/Community [UMMA] , that they should , even use Force, if necessary to create a UNiTED STATES Of The LEVANT (NORTH) seperate from the SOUTH (AARABiA: i.e., , Hijaz, Yemen Gulf Coast Nations)!

Note: Turkey must also, for xchange, Abandon All North CYPRiS too.

So Let SHARiA stay in the 'SOUTH' where it belongs (Arabia where It Began before their CONQUESTS into the Paganic LEVANT area's (Israel, Gaza, W.Bank, Jordan, Syria,Lebanon, not Aegypt).

Hence: If Islam wants to "recognise?" Israel in xchange to go-back? to Pre- 1967 Borders; Then Saudi & Co, should rightly only go back (besides Stone Age) to Pre-Islams Invasion of GAZA & JERUSALEM, Lebanon, Jordan, Iran, Spain etc.. etc..!

The Goal is to Create a genuine True (ooposite of Myth) Secular moderate United States Of The LEVANT. And Stay Far Away from SHARiA (SOUTHERNERS) ARABIAS.

Think about It. Could happen in less than 20 Years if potential TURKEY/LEVANT United States, [Federal] want it.

i'm not talking about a united states of Pre-Apocalyptic idiot SEVANTS Nationals, but a [SECULAR] United States Of LENAVTia Ap[ocalyptic Thinking Nationals. Good bye Forign Agents (of Irean & Saudi..) Hassbinbulya's & Hamastanians et et al..!

Note: Then All The Current [ISLAMiC prongs, not Genuine secular] & their Theocratic & Monarchic existing Constitutions within The Prayed For (or Hoped For) future "United States Of LEVANT"ia will automatically cancel out their old PRE-APOCALYPTIC based Constitutions from them several Soverigns. U.S. LEVANT. (North).

Your article is disingenuous. It does no good to argue with those who become unhinged at the mere mention of this subject, of course. Readers who bother to check the Society's website and actually read it should have no trouble understanding this whole thing without becoming apoplectic. Your passion is admirable, but your veracity has yet to be shown.

The pope should condemn the holocaust being perpetrated today by Israel against the Palestinians.

Behold:

i, We , THE[Real]PEOPLE are Petitioning the WORLD-COURT to Rightly & Jointly Sue both The VATiCAN (Abrahamic) & RiYADH (Abrahamic) for Stealing & Unjustly Hijacking OUR, not Ye, "HOLY-i COSMIC FEELERS FAiTH'rs" Prophet of Many via OUR Belief SYSTEM, Like a Religion, yet Better.

WHEREFORE: i [WE] Demand Compensation for Wrongful Theft of a PHiLOSOPHY, like a Copy Right or as an Institutional owned Intellectual-Property, Patens etc.., Please Copy [godless] cats!.

So, Get a New Religion PAGAN's, aka CHRiSTIANS & MUSLOMS!

PS: The VEDiC-PEOPLE are not a Party to OUR Law Suite(s)!

CHRiSTIANS & ISLAMiC are inflicted with "Religio Jealousy Psychosis & Pre-Apocalyptic Syndrome" a very dangerous Institution! Note: Judeo-Jew's Too. And Judeo-VEDiCS too!

Soo, Go away [Judeo-Christs & Judeo-Islamics] with Ye Blame Flame inflame via Ye Freudian Slipping (hidden) Jealousys!

---

May xtra Photons shine on AMERiCA & Friends. And Preserve & Protect OUR, not Their, Holyi Cosmic, NEBULA-BUiLT, Space-Ship Earth's of Many!

HALLALUYA! Eeeee Haaaa! Happy Every Day & Good G-D Hunting! YES

Praise The Holy-i NO-MAN-NO-WOMAN! Only "IT", aka Thee SUPERNATURAL (G-D), not ye Pre-Apocalyptic supernatural (god) man-made story System!

OUR Universe is the real CONSTiTUTION & the Clauses of "IT" or "iTSELF" therein & Therefrom are the LAW(s) OF "IT"s own NATURE! Something To Magnify, Make Honorable & Uphold, Istead of the Opposite like VATiCAN & RiYADH.

Remember: We art Students Forever with SOURCE-ONE ("IT" Becoming what "iTSELF" is Becomming in & out of Us-All via "IT"s own Annimates & Inanimates stuffs & Things thus MIRACULOUSLY appearing & Reappearing, aka We aret in the "ETERNiTY AVOiDiNG LONLiNESS Holy Machine; Sin/Curseth Free) AND we never Graduate, How bout Ye?

The Pope reassures me, all right. He reassures me the Catholic Church is intolerant, anti-semetic and hypocritical. Keep your pedophile hiding Cardinals and your point-hatted ex-Hitler-youth pope out of my life. Go pose, primp, pretend, posture, pimp and pray with your own on Sunday and leave the rest of us the hell alone. You are no better than the redneck right-wing evangelicals that took over the nation for the last eight years.

Go away Eucharist Lover's, Please Go Away! Take Ye Space-Ships & move to VENUS, MERCURY or the SUN, & Practice Canibalism & Vampirism thereto but do-not landa on Holy-i Space-Ship Earth, nor on Sister Moon & Brother Mars and beyond!

Hark PAGAN's, Witches, Shaman's.., aka VATiCANs & RIYADH's, "Let OUR People Go!" Give Us Back PELEG & YASHUA, aka RevviJESUS, RevviJEHOVA.. That YE hath JEALOUSLY Stole & Unjustly Enriched Ye selves off the Judeo-G-D & their necks, not OUR.

BEHOLD: The Wrath of the Holy-i NO-MAN nor NO-WOMAN is upon Ye! "IT", aka ALMiGHTY (The Rock) punisheth ye Cathaholic Eusarcastic lovers & Islam-maniac Slave Lovers Co!

Ye Call Ye selves "CHRiSTIANS, MUSLOMS.."! Wow!

Amazing, No-Grace...()

I think Papal is trying to make a point here...We can all sit here and deny God, Jesus, history, question judgements, accounts and observations...all without any fear of consequences, backlash, threat of burning in hell...all in the name of free speech, further analysis, ongoing research etc. etc. We can also deny the "non-Jewish" part of the Holocaust...so long as it does not change the number on the Jewish side. But boy Oh boy...if you ever question the Jewish account, you are in trouble. My question to Rabbi is, with all due respect, doesn't it sound odd to you that the entire human history is open to questioning except one event that, perhaps, if and when opened to questioning may turn out to be something different than what you claim. I honesty fail to understand that logic. If all that is written about the Holocaust is true then it should be open to the same rigors from all sides as the rest of the history.

Incredible that after all that has happened there still is such Christian trash like "Orpheus" around.

Religion is only good for illusionary fights about different brands of human stupidity. All religion - every religion - can ever achieve is create hatred - q.e.d.

Rabbi Cooper and Rabbi Alderstein are just using this issue to continue to stir their pot.

These learned men know very well that throughout the history of the Catholic Church the Pope has always controlled spurious groups by absorbing them back into the fold in order to eventually reconstruct them.

This is just the beginning of a step forward for Jewish-Christian relations.

Let me see, two Rabbis, one a director of the Wiesenthal Center, got together to write about a Pope who de-excommunicates a Priest who denies history. I get it, this is the Gong Show right?

Let me help all of you. So Pope old buddy, what were you thinking? Appeasement? Bad move. Wrong is wrong.

And Rabbis, please. Nobody listens to Jews anymore. Have you taken a look at the apartheid on the West Bank guys? Let's see, Jew only settlements and Jew only highways all built on occupied Palestinian lands? And, you want to talk history? Oh I know Hamas is a miserable bunch of snots who launch deadly random rockets but what did you think would happen when you locked them in like Warsaw? Nobody is listening to you. Clean your own house. Until then the Weisenthal Center is a sham right up there with de-excommunication.

Of course there is a really simple way out of all of this. You look toward your God and start to laugh as you realize that your beliefs are in the same league with Santa and the Easter Bunny. But you snots all separate yourselves based on different versions of the fantasy and get all indignant and even kill each other over it. A pox on you all.

Let me help you since you are clearly morons. There is no God, never was, never will be. Those people you are killing are the same as you. Geeze, you schmucks are going to blow up the world with your claptrap.

Sounds like maybe the Pope needs to get saved by the Blood of Jesus. I hope this will loose the Catholics bondage and open their eyes to the Gospel. Bless the Jews based on Gods Word. Pray to the Father (not Pope) through the Holy Spirit in the name of Jesus Christ. The Pope is a man like you and I. He is not Jesus.

" wildtimecharlie Author Profile Page:

What makes Jews think they get to tell Catholics how to practice Catholicism?"

Answer: Its about us. If its not about us, that's anti-Semitism, in which case its about us all over again.

If I believe Krakatoa never erupted, should it interfere with my salvation?
The Pope handles souls, and denying the holocaust (while it is very wrong to do so) should really change the way that person's salvation through Jesus works? No.

Jesus extends his Grace and Salvation to everyone.

And God, yours'/mine/theirs said....."What a bunch of fools, dont they know that I know everything and I know who the villan is and yet, they try to kiss up to me. They will kill each other just to prove that they love me more, FOOOLS!"
And so I say to you, let the pope be the fool he his, he cant help himself, he is German.

Sounds like maybe the Pope needs to get saved by the Blood of Jesus. I hope this will loose the Catholics bondage and open their eyes to the Gospel. Bless the Jews based on Gods Word. Pray to the Father (not Pope) through the Holy Spirit in the name of Jesus Christ. The Pope is a man like you and I. He is not Jesus.

It seems to me that the Pope's actions in this case really seems to remind the non-Catholic world of two things:
-the Catholic church has a mixed and troubled history in its mission to promote universal brotherhood including Jews (as do all Christian groups and non-Christian religions as well)
-there is a lot of internal politics in European Catholicism that is mystifying to American protestants like me. Some of those Catholic heretics appear to be major nutjobs that could rival any of our American fundamentalists or cult leaders. I suppose every culture has an ongoing tension between reformers and defenders of the status quo.

NO wonder Jews wanted their own nation. They have been killed by the catholic church for centuries and are hated by muslims. The only way for them to survive those extremist is to have their own country. When palestinians acknowledge the right of Israel to exist and stop sending rockets to their cities, peace can then be entertained. The current pope manned an antiaircraft battery during WWII. His nazi sympathies become evident by his recent policies.

I am SO over the guilt of the holocaust. It' been 70 tears! And most of us weren't even alive then. Not to mention, Jews are not the only people to have a holocaust in modern times. And they won't be the last.

I do think this bishop is stupid for denying history. But I am also tired of it being a big deal. It's over. Deal with it.

Israel is an apartheid state right now. And many of it's actions remind one of the actions of Germany in the 1930's. Ironic isn't it. And god forbid anyone in America disagrees with anything a Jew says. We can't even question the policies of Israel without being accussed of being a racist.

Much of the world hates Israel and the Jews. Not for being Jewish, but because of the actions of the "Jewish" state. And I don't blame them.

Israel faces a serious problem soon. The arabs inside Israel are gonna outnumber the Jews. Then what will you do? My bet is turn to history and repeat the actions of Germany in 1935. Remember Warsaw? How millions of Jews were moved to Eastern Europe to create room for Germans? In a few years, we'll see that happen in Israel.

But [on topic]. This bishop is an idiot for denying history. And the Pope is bigger idiot for reinstateing him. But they both look silly. So why should we look even sillier by caring. The biggest fear the Pope has it that he'd be ignored. So ignore him. And go on with your life. His action over this isn't gonna affect you one bit.

"Where were you when THEY crusified MY LORD?"

These 2 rabbis have no grounds to complain abut genocide denial. They're with the Simon Wiesenthal Center, which soft peddles the Armenian Holocaust out of concern for Jews' relations with Turkey. See http://articles.latimes.com/2003/feb/03/entertainment/et-reynolds3. In other words, it's OK for the Rabbi to engage in genocide denial for political reasons, but not the Catholic Church.

These 2 rabbis are shameless hypocrites. I applaud the Church's condoning genocide denial. I agree with the rabbis that genocide denial is a good thing. We need more of it.

Right, rabbis?

"Where were you when THEY crusified MY LORD?"

I am a catholic and until the past few years our church has been wanting christians as a whole to embrase Jews as a part of Gods world. But all I see is Terror and hatred coming from Jews. If you disagree about anything you are label a anti-semite. Here's a message to Jews in general. Try to live in a society and not try to dominate it or destroy it.

It is amazing, frightening, and painful that this pope is so ethically tone deaf; if he's seeking "universal Truth," he won't find it by elevating those who deny history.

It is amazing, frightening, and painful that this pope is so ethically tone deaf; if he's seeking "universal Truth," he won't find it by elevating those who deny history.

Hey! A little understanding here! There's a severe recession on and revenue shortfall is a problem. SSPX(XX) represents a huge cash flow that just can't be ignored. After the recovery, we'll deal with right and wrong stuff.

What makes Jews think they get to tell Catholics how to practice Catholicism? I think the Pope should tell the Jews to end their own racist practices and doctrines, including those found in the Talmud and most especially their Apartheid Regime called Israel.

How much longer until the entire world gets fed up with Jews assuming they are the self appointed masters of every one else? I no longer believe so called anti semitism exists in a vaccuum. In fact it is a natural response to Jewish Supremacy.

Reinhard Tristan Eugen Heydrich (7 March, 1904 – 4 June, 1942) was a shy, insecure boy who was frequently bullied for his high-pitched voice and his family's Catholicism.

Heydrich was one of the main architects of the Holocaust during the first years of the war, answering only to, and taking orders only from Hitler and Himmler in all matters that pertained to the deportation, imprisonment, and extermination of Jews. He had initially gained some control over Jewish policy, when in November 1938, Göring assigned him as head of the Central Office for Jewish Emigration following Kristallnacht. In this position, he worked tirelessly both to coordinate various initiatives for the Final Solution, and to assert SS dominance over Jewish policy. Most famously in this respect, on 20 January 1942, Heydrich chaired the Wannsee Conference, at which he presented to the heads of a number of German Government departments a plan approved by Hitler for the deportation of the Jews to extermination camps.[11]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinhard_Heydrich#Role_in_the_Holocaust

Cooper and Adlerstein stated, "But this move has not been accompanied by declarations that there is no turning back the clock on the teachings of Vatican II that blazed the way for new understanding between Catholics and Jews...
"The Pope can repair the public relations debacle by declaring unequivocally that the teachings of Vatican II are not optional and not just tools to be taken off the shelf for interfaith op-eds. He can state that they represent the true spirit of the Church, from which there is no return."

I think they missed something the Pope said on Wednesday:
"I have undertaken this act of paternal benevolence because those same bishops have repeatedly expressed to me their profound suffering at the situation in which they found themselves.
"I hope that this gesture of mine will be followed by a prompt commitment on their part to take the further steps necessary to achieve full communion with the Church, thus showing true faithfulness to, and true recognition of, the Magisterium and authority of the Pope and of Vatican Council II".

Pretty clear.

This pope has served long enough and committed enough offenses so that it is no longer possible to brush them aside as accidental. He is in fact an evil man and should be treated with the contempt he so richly deserves.

Did anyone see Shimon Peres at Davos yesterday,and wasn't that somthing?

"Short of the launch of a new Crusade, it is hard to imagine how the Pope could have ignited such outrage with one decision."

Short of the launch of a new Crusade? Really? I'm a lapsed Catholic who has always been puzzled by the stature of the Pope in the modern world, so I just shake my head every time the Pope does something ELSE that makes no sense to me, and my father was in a division that liberated a camp in WWII, so I am really puzzled by the Holocust deniers, but to put THIS spin on the Pope's action sounds somewhat hysterical. The Swiss Guard are not packing up and heading out overland. Using more temperate language will help get your message across better.

Did anyone see Shimon Peres at Davos yesterday and wasn't that somthing?

VATICAN CITY, 28 JAN 2009 (VIS) - "May the Shoah be for everyone an admonition against oblivion, negation and reductionism, because violence against a single human being is violence against all", the Holy Father told pilgrims attending his weekly general audience.

Referring to recent commemorations of the Shoah, the Pope highlighted how at Auschwitz - a place he has visited several times, the last in May 2006 during his apostolic trip to Poland - "millions of Jews were cruelly massacred, innocent victims of blind racial and religious hatred.

"As I once again affectionately express my full and indisputable solidarity with our Brothers and Sisters who received the First Covenant", he added, "I trust that the memory of the Shoah will induce humankind to reflect upon the unpredictable power of evil when it conquers the heart of man".

>>> Pope BXVI can't be made accountable for every word and opinion of every one in a billion Catholics... Go to the sources.

Did you see Shimon Peres at Davos yesterday? Wasn't that somthing?

Perhaps it's time to realize that the "Pope" is just a human, and not a very smart one at that. He says things that could bring on the suffering and death of many people! He started with the Gays, and now he's repeating it with the Jews ... "WOW" doesn't that sound(Hitler) familiar? The Catholics could do with far better a leader!

Perhaps the realization that his words affects so many in the Christian world, may enlighten this man into being more responsible in what he spews.
Words that create hate, discrimination, and death, are definitely not CHRISTIAN!

Bottom Line: What he sows, so shall he reap! Unfortunately, he speaks for the Catholic Church, which sadly, will also fall under his umbrella of "reap"

Steven Leong
Hawaii

One of to-day’s problems is the worship of the Pope by Catholics. The obeisance of these ignorant morons makes this ex-Nazi feel like he is almighty. He thinks he can rewrite history and cleanse his fellow Nazis by recognizing a holocaust denier back to the church. Yes, these guys all deserve each other. If there is a hell, they can all get together and party there wearing red Swastika armbands.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/magazine/11Genome-t.html?ref=magazine&pagewanted=all

Steve Pinker points out behavior is genetic as did James Watson. The taking offense gene is one that should be controlled. The operative part is offense. It is a gene for aggression.

Religious politics is about wielding power. Each of these 'leaders', whatever their Brand, ascend to thrones of power and wield their divine rights. It must feel pretty good (to them) but their statements and dictum's are routinely narrow minded, divisive to the point that our world is awash in religious hatred.

Conversely there are billions of religious people that exercise their faith and make our world better every day. These folks tow the line on dogma because they have faith that reasonable human beings of all stripes are the collective savior of humanity.

There's always the "wailing wall".isn't there?

The Pope is not concerned with the "universal truth" nor with the reality of Europe or the world. He is concerned only with the a small segment of radicals calls the Catholic church

"Jews and Catholics can only pray that at the end of day it will be the voice and conscience of that Father which will ultimately prevail."

The only voice that the Pope cares about is that of God Himself.

You guys should stick to fixing your own flawed religion. One where 75% of Jewish people vote for a man that is the strongest abortion promoter ever to sit in the WH.

Note: The 45% of Catholics that voted for the aborter will find hard judgement indeed.

http://www.catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/judaism/talmud.htm

Part II - Precepts of the Talmud Concerning Christians

Chapter I. Christians are to be Avoided

Art. 1. Christians Unworthy to Associate with Jews
Art. 2. Christians are Unclean
Art. 3. Christians are Idolaters
Art. 4. Christians are Evil

Chapter II. Christians are to be Exterminated

Art. 1. Christians to be Harmed Indirectly

1. By not helping them
2. By interfering in their work
3. By deceit in legal matters
4. By harming them in things necessary for life

Art. 2. Christians to be Harmed Directly

1. Renegades to be killed
2. Apostates
3. Princes especially the Prince of Rome (the Pope) to be exterminated
4. All Christians to be killed
5. Killing a Christian is an acceptable sacrifice to God
6. Heaven promised to those who kill Christians
7. A Christian may be beheaded on the most solemn festivals
8. The Messiah expected will be revengeful
9. Jewish prayers against Christians
10. Christian prayers for the Jews

The Pope is not concerned with "the reality of Europe". He is concerned with universal Truth.

Something non-believers don't get. Don't misconstrue the Pope's actions for political maneuverings.

Cooer and Alderstein couldn't be more clueless.

eoldham1 wrote :
You'd think the Pope would be distancing himself from the whole Nazi thing. Just goes to show, right-wing Christians are no saner than right-wing Muslims. [End Quote]

~~~~~
Or fanatical foaming at the mouth leftists.

The Talmud is one of the hate filled pagan racists pieces of literature ever written.

While Catholics pray for the conversion and salvation of Jews you Talmudic-Khazar-Ashkenazi-Sephardis pray that the Birkat ha Minim and your well known rabbi's say that even the best of the Gentiles should be killed.

What else would you expect from a bunch of pedophiles?

It always kills me that Christians, especially Catholics, always want to persecute Jews even though the person they worship was a Jew himself.

If Jesus came back to earth where would he go to worship? He certainly would not go to a church. He would go to a synagogue which is where he had his Bar Mitzvah and were he prayed his whole life.

Any Christian who persecutes Jews is a Hypocrite at the least.

Insanity is the only way to describe religious fanaticism. Acceptance of fantasy instead of reality. The hurt they bring to the world is permissible because ..???

At least give the Holy Father credit for his great timing. Never has Israel - and, by extension, Jews everywhere- had so few friends for so great an atrocity (as Gaza).

It's very apparent what the church/pope's postion is as it relates to Jew's. This hateful anti semtic vile... sspx is quite proud and public who they are and what they stand for. The pope knowingly accepted these animals back into the church. What statement is that making? In retrospect we can understand and study the popes actions and words based on this very public decision. The pope in effect, who represnts the church is aggreeing with these scum. I wonder why?

You'd think the Pope would be distancing himself from the whole Nazi thing. Just goes to show, right-wing Christians are no saner than right-wing Muslims.

Someone should take away the Pope's bottle of Vitamin Bush. He has become blind deaf and dumb.

Wow.
First, Orpheus, I didn't like the article either, but you're just as much a goon as these two authors.
Now, why does the article stink?
1. The first paragraph starts with hyperbole that is demonstrably false: "Short of the launch of a new Crusade, it is hard to imagine how the Pope could have ignited such outrage with one decision". Sure, you may not like this reinstatement, but I can think of about 20 things (go ahead, ask) that would be worse.
2. It's an observation on church politics on the part of authors who know nothing about church politics. Ordaining bishops without Rome's approval is a violation of canon law (can 1382), and an excommuniable offense. Holocaust denial, while repugnant, is not a violation of canon law.
The authors are obviously liberals. I love how liberals claim to be the sole defenders of freedom, and yet give/want to give rulers power unbound by any written law.

I'm sorry for the comments of Orpheus2004. I am Catholic, and have been struggling with my faith as it seems the leaders of the Church are as clueless as many in the flock. Perhaps the Lord has put these people in these positioins to test us, and I hope we pass.

Boo, hoo, hoo...another crybaby Jew...Isn't it time you stop bullying the rest of the world around? The Holy Father represents over a billion people on the planet and does not need to be lectured to by 15 million vermin. You still haven't apologized for killing the Lord; what "chutzpah" that you want to extract yet again another pound of flesh for your matzo ball soup.