SM33076stated:
...Arabs need to get out of their heaqd(sic) this nonsense about Arab Nationalism and work towards Muslim unity.
================
There are two problems that I see with that:
1. Islam is dominated by Arabs and Arab culture. Despite the majority of Muslims being non-Arab, the very ethos of Islam in 7th Century Arabia. The Arab 'core' of Islam will never accept a non-Arab (or non-Sunni for that matter) as the titular head of Islam.

2. Islam has very little true unity. Osama Bin Laden, Moqtadda al Sadr, and Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono all share the goal of Muslim unity. Where they differ is what that Muslim unity will look like in relationship to the non-Muslim world and how they will get there.

What Arabs need is a leader, Mandela or not... Because all Arabs have are sell out leaders, whether it is the Hashemites in Jordan, the Saudis in Hijaz or Mubarak in Egypt. And the main thing is that Arabs need to get out of their heaqd this nonsense about Arab Nationalism and work towards Muslim unity.

Right now most of the problems the Muslim world faces is because there is no leadership within the Arabs despite their immense wealth. The Muslim world would be a different situation if the Arabs straightened themselves out and thought in terms of Muslim unity, not this Arab unity that the Prophet Mohammed forbade the Arabs to talk of.

In order to be balanced, you should have mentioned that Israelis need an Abraham Lincoln

Garak:

I owe you great thanks for two things: First, you don’t know what a tremendous relief it is for me to hear that Gaza is the same as Auschwitz. For some reason, I have lived up till now with the impression that over a million Jews were murdered in Auschwitz. Thanks to your post, I now know they have just escaped a few miles away from their homes, and are still living there with their children and grandchildren. That’s fantastic news.

Second, since you made such a big hooha over that obscure advocate of semi-nonviolence-with-exceptions-allowing-for-violence, I was under the impression that you were looking for peace in the region. Now I understand that, just like Hamas, what you’re looking for is not peace but the land. All of it. Thank you for clarifying that point as well.

MARCEDWARD1 :

“Assuming Hamas has the same 'rights', they have done nothing 'wrong' in their rocket attacks on Israel (which I think are both wrong and stupid).”

When you say “wrong and stupid”, that would be wrong and stupid for whom? Maybe for the Palestinians, maybe for Israel, but are they wrong and stupid for Hamas? How do you know that? Hamas has a certain agenda, and obviously they believe that attacking Israel serves their agenda, and perhaps when all is said and done they will have turned out to be right. We don’t know that yet.

Israel is not – and should not be – concerned with whether the actions of Hamas are wrong and stupid or right and smart. Its own agenda is to defend itself, its citizens and it borders against attacks, and that is what it is doing. If you drop all the philosophical questions and start looking at the facts on the ground, it will become a lot clearer.

Dear Mr. Rubiez,

While yours is a wonderful, idealistic notion - like waterless toilets, the designated hitter rule, and Communism - it fails the reality test.

You state: “If Palestinians unite in their resistance and organize for peace and democracy, they could inspire Israelis to end the occupation.”
The problem is that Hamas is in favor of neither democracy (they are in favor of Sharia – which they recently instituted in Gaza) nor peace with Israel. Their very charter calls for Israel’s destruction.

You further state: “Similarly, Palestinians need a Nelson Mandela-like leader to anchor the struggle on co-existence; what they have now are short-sighted leaders.”
Yes, their leadership is short-sited and extremely ideologically driven. If history is the window to the present, then any Palestinian leader who promotes peaceful reproachment and coexistence with Israel had better do so from an undisclosed location, as his life would be quickly forfeit. Salmon Rushdie is a moderate Muslim voice – he has round-the-clock bodyguards and moves secretly. Gaza is even more radicalized in its philosophy then the majority of the Muslim street, particularly with Iran’s influence.

That said, I really wish the people of Gaza would chuck their present leadership for a charismatic peace leader and move beyond 1948 anger. Some ask, “Why should they!?” To which I’d respond with the Dr. Phil question, “How’s that working for you?” Israel is a reality – the people of Gaza cannot change that and face possible extinction if they don’t face reality. Before Gaza’s Mandela can appear, there needs to be a seismic shift in the attitude of the average resident of the strip.

Thanks, Garak.

Yes, I AM here,Garak, and I heard you cleraly.

I have been agonising, on and off, for years, why I don't have the courage of Rachel Corrie (the American activist of International Solidarity Movement who travelled to the Gaza strip during the Second Intifaada, and in March 2003 during a protest against the destruction of Palestinian homes by the IDF in the Gaza Strip, was run over by an armoured tank operated by the Israeli Defence Force).

My occasional lapse into agony gave way, about three days back, to a permanent one. Now I am agonising over that question at least 8 hours a day.

The answer is staring at me and I feel very, very dejected, full of contempt for myself. The answer is the simple word: cowardice.

The next step is the loss of my humanity. And I assure you that before I make that next step, I'll gather enough courage to follow Rachel Corrie's example. I am already starting to figure out the logistics of that action to fully reclaim my humanity.

michaelnj wrote:

"Like the people of Sinai, the residents of Gaza are not living nder Israeli occupation either. Israel left Gaza in 2005, just as it had left the Sinai in 1980. So why are the residents of Sinai living in peace and the residents of Gaza not? Because there have been no attacks on Israel out of Sinai since 1973, while the attacks on Israel from Gaza have never stopped. Are you beginning to see some connection? Is that such a hard concept to understand? Is anybody at home?"

The Bedouins in the Sinai were not forced off their land in mass by Zio-fascist terror, as were the inmates of Gazauschwitz. Israel, believe it or not, actually let them be.

The prisoners at Gazauschwitz, however, can look out of their concentration camp and see their old homes, not inhabited by the new master race. They can see their lands farmed by the new master race. They understand that the new master race views them as Untermenschen occupying Israeli Lebensraum. They know they are viewed as less than human. They see themselves treated as such.

Are you beginning to understand and see a connection? Is that such a hard concept to understand? Hello, is anyone there?

No, No, No, No! The last thing that Palestinians need is a Mandela. Because that would countenance Israelis acting like South Africa's "Dr. Death", Wouter Bason, who, among other things, helped murder anti-apartheid activists with biological/chemical weapons and dumped 200 of them from a helicopter into the Atlanctic off the coast of Namibia.

Already, waht Israel is doing is far, far worse than what a thousand Dr. Bassons would have done in South Africa.

What the Israeli-engineered holocaust situation in Gaza needs is a group of world leaders who have enough determination to give Israel a deadline of three days to accept a ceasefire that also opens all borders with Egypt and Israel, plus a three-month deadline to withdraw to pre-June 1967 borders, which will then become the officially-recognised borders betwen Palestine and Israel.

Failing that a UNSC-approved invasion of Israel should follow.

Any other proposal amounts to world leaders' complicity in the longest-running crime against humanity in all of history. And, the very thought that this could happen at the start of the Third Millenium, is enough to wipe out all hope that humanity can achieve meaningful progress.

It boggles the mind that nobody critical of Israel remembers 2000 and the smiling and joking Arafat and Ehud Barak with Bill Clinton -- seemingly on the eve of brokering a Palestinian state! It went nowhere because, well, the Palestinian leadership "never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity." The "why's" of this are clear -- the leadership has always had their own agenda -- at the complete expense of their own people.

People should read Jeffrey Goldberg's blog. He is thoughtful and even-handed, with a perspective gained by living in different "worlds."

One comment from January 6 is quite illustrative of some of what is going on in this present situation. He says, "It's absolutely astonishing to me how interested the world is in Israel's failings. This is the source of a bitter but hilarious observation I once heard a Kurdish leader make: He was complaining to me that his people were cursed, and I asked him what he meant: Cursed by geography, cursed by their proximity to Kurd-hating Arabs, what? He said the Kurds were cursed because they didn't have Jewish enemies. Only with Jewish enemies would the world pay attention to their plight."

I, as a Jewish mother, cry and am horribly upset when seeing the Palestinian children who have been killed or terribly hurt, as much as for an Israeli child (whether some of you believe this or not, it is true). But honestly, where is the world's same outrage over the situation in Darfur, or Zimbabwe, or for that matter, where was it during Rawanda . . .

To dolph924,:

You mean the fake state of Israel, filled to the brim with Eastern Europeans who dreamt on a good summer night that somebidy else's land in a foreign country beings to them..

What they need is somebody with some serious nuts in their pants to kick the zionist a** out of Arab lands back to Europe where they came from. Or to America which seem slike it will gladly embrace them, considerin their enormous contribution to American cutlure, business and society in general. Jews in America are model citizens, except for the zionist who support the nazi zionist aprtheid and rascist state of Israel.

What they really need are fewer Ben Ladens. They also need to launch fewer rockets into Israel. They also need to come to grips with the survival of the state of Israel -- even if that means their extermination. They also need to realize that in this dog fight, they are the Yorkie and Israel is the Rotweiler. Any hope for them from the U.S. died when they danced in the streets on 9/11. Get in touch with the mother ship and make a cease fire possible by ceasing the rocket fire FIRST. They are part of a religion that is lost in the 7th century and it's time we stopped pretending they have any claim to a society worthy of respect.

MichaelNJ
your arguments amount to
'Israel can do whatever she likes if it seems needed'
Assuming Hamas has the same 'rights', they have done nothing 'wrong' in their rocket attacks on Israel (which I think are both wrong and stupid). Your logic can be boiled down to 'Israel is always right, Arabs are always wrong', which honestly, is so dogmatic, means you are incapable of accepting any information that doesn't fit into your fantasy view of Israel.

Don't people realize that neither side is 100% in the right?

Too much history, too much hate. People bend religion to support their violent ways. I thought religion was about peace, respect, and forgiveness.

Some look to Obama, but I can not see extremists on either side agreeing to a compromise brokered by a "Westerner".

The US does not stand on any moral high ground to scold Israel for its actions. How can US criticize Israel for killing civilians after Iraq?

I am lucky to live in the US in this time. I hate no one. I am not religious, but I am thankful for the oceans, and hope that they insulate us from this conflict. If they do not, ironically, religion and and the hate it breeds will destroy all of us.

When the jews rose up against the Nazis in the 1944 Warsaw ghetto, they were hailed as heroes by the west, when Palestinians rise up against the Israeli military occupation of their homeland, they are branded militants and worse as the descendants of holocaust survivors commit their own SHOAH!! According to Israeli historian Ilan Pappe, David Ben-Gurion and his jewish organizations i.e. Irgun, Hagana, Palmach and the Stern gang were also terrorists well-known for their carefully planned and executed ethnic cleansing operations which resulted in Eretz Israel!!

Abhab wrote: "Yet when had the Arabs in general and the Palestinians in particular have followed the dictates of logic or pragmatism? Their whole worldview needs to be revamped toward a more realistic tenor."

-- You're probably right. I think they need to grow opium in their backyards. The opium can help them become more logical and get a more mellow worldview, They can now hallucinate that they're not hopelessly trapped in prison. And when they labor to build settlement homes in the West Bank to support their families, they can also pretend that they're building their own mansions.

MichaelNJ, are you on CRACK or is that respective Controlled Substance simply ONE of the MANY narcotics in your daily diet??? Are you that functionally illiterate or just plain stupid to even acknowledge that your vaunted IAF bombed Osirak in 1981, in order to preempt any other nation from acquiring nuclear technology while itself possessed US-supplied nuclear weapons, now housed at Dimona??? Your inevitable accusations of antisemitism notwithstanding will now just validate my assertion that you are a COMPLETE IMBECILE who coincidentally happens to be a Zionist ideologue of the LOWEST academic caliber!!!!

The author is completly wrong to ask the Palestinian victims of the Israeli ethnic cleansing and genocide to try peaceful resistence. Is he that naive that he would actually espouse the PALS to befriend the Zionist occupiers of their homes, while the latter lay siege to Gaza, deliberatly targeting and killing civilians who sought shelter at UN schools, after they were instructed to abandon their homes by the very occupation army that later murdered them? Ghassan should send his family members to try and reason with the Israeli occupiers first and then await the return of their remains at his church for a proper Christian burial. The Israelis do not distinguish between Arabs either Christian or Muslim-their Zionist ideology preaches that jews are superior to others-much like Nazism. Maybe Ghassan should have listened to that Vatican Cardinal yesterday when he rightly called Gaza a concentration camp, if he has any delusions about reasoning with one's tormentors!!!

MSIDDIQU :

“When I was saying Palestinians did not use gun until 1990, that was under the Israeli occupation.”

Don’t be tiresome. Read some history.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/israel-terror.htm

“The reason other 3 countries have been peaceful with israel is that none of their territory is under israeli occupation and none of their citizens is being brutalized by Israel.”

Thanks for helping me illustrate my point. Part of Egypt WAS under occupation, until it decided to make peace with Israel. Then it got all of its territory back. Consequently, the residents of the previously occupied Egyptian territory are now living under Egyptian rule (whether that counts as freedom is another question).

Like the people of Sinai, the residents of Gaza are not living nder Israeli occupation either. Israel left Gaza in 2005, just as it had left the Sinai in 1980. So why are the residents of Sinai living in peace and the residents of Gaza not? Because there have been no attacks on Israel out of Sinai since 1973, while the attacks on Israel from Gaza have never stopped. Are you beginning to see some connection? Is that such a hard concept to understand? Is anybody at home?

Your main problem (and you are not alone, of course), is that you regard this situation as a conflict between two sides only: Israel and the Palestinians. And when you think about “The Palestinians”, you think about poor helpless unarmed and besieged multitudes. Because of your political views you are completely oblivious to the presence of a third player: the Hamas, the party instigating and driving this conflict, whose leaders, I can assure you, are not helpless, not poor, and definitely not starving, and who are motivated by not by the wish for peace but rather by Islamic fanaticism and by dreams of creating a Sharia state in all of Israel - not just “the occupied territories” - which is why they are so lavishly funded and armed by Iran. They, and none other, are responsible for the situation in the Gaza strip today.

“When Jesus will appear, Israel will be history anyway.”

As will the rest of the world. You really ought to bone up on your scriptures.

I'm not defending Israel's overall behavior toward the Palestinians, but so far I havent seen the Israelis engage in the same kind of violence that the Palestinians use. Suicide bombings are not the acts of a "brave people". Hamas could easily target Israeli military installations, or even the Dimona nuclear complex, with their little rockets from Gaza. The fact that they are launching them against civilians makes them murderers. If the Israelis are committing murder, it's usually because someone missed, someone disobeyed orders or someone over-reacted. There is a difference, and if some people can't see that difference, then maybe their mentaility is akin to a murderer also.

There was a time when the USA supported the apartheid regime in South Africa and condemned Nelson Mandela as not only a terrorist, (after all, the ANC was not a 'peaceful' resistance movement but an armed struggle against injustice), but also as a communist.

Those were the days when US obsession with commmunism meant that anyone, anywhere around the world who resisted rightwing, conservative 'white' establishments, in favor of social rights or workers rights was on a CIA blacklist: Nelson Mandela was one of them.

But global public outcry which started in Europe, meant that the US government had to change course and put pressure on the SA apartheid regime to end apartheid and bring about social and economic justice.

Maybe the Palestinians just need more a more concerted global effort against Israeli apartheid, occupation and injustice!

The Gazans need a Martin Luther King, not a Mandela.

Palestinians are unmistakenly the bravest people in modern history. No other people dmanding independence or resisting occupation of their motherland, have suffered for more than 60 years fighting, and their is no resolution in sight. It is unbelieveable that U.S.supplied weapons have been used for killing people who resist occupation. It is against American value system and traditions. This policy needs an immediate and strategic review by the incoming Obama Administration. When we think about Mandela or Gandhi for the leadership of a people who are fighting to free their occupied land, we should look back and find out whatever happened to those occupiers ? A Palestinian State sooner than later is bound to happen .

You state: "If Palestinians unite in their resistance and organize for peace and democracy, they could inspire Israelis to end the occupation."

But unfortunately, the occupation is an essential element of the Zionist program to ethnically cleanse Palestine.

You are asking Zionists to throw away a system which has worked for them since 1948: kill or drive out the Palestinians - and then take their land.

The Palestine Review
http://palestinereview.com

Israel will never settle for peace. It has become a Nazi nation.

Interestingly enough, a number of mainstream American churches had supposedly looked at trying to organize some kind of Sullivan Principles effort to disinvest in Israel to pressure them to stop building and/or dismantle settlements and outposts, and they were talked out of it by Israeli / Jewish interest groups in the US. Perhaps they shouldn't have backed off so quickly, and perhaps this is also an idea whose time has now come. But, sadly, everytime some moderate Palestinian has stepped forward to advocate accommodation with Israel, or even if someone like Hamas thinks someone MIGHT want to reach an accommodation, they've been killed by extremists. This also happened to Rabin on the Israeli side, from Jewish extremists. If the US had not interfered in the Saudi effort to bring Hamas and the PLO together, by inciting the PLO to violence against Hamas, there might have been a chance for some such individual to step forward once again. Perhaps this latest round of violence will sicken enough people on both sides of the conflict to ask the really tough question- is all this REALLY worth fighting for instead of reaching peaceful accommodations with meaningful compromises on both sides. So far, it's been the Palestinians who have done all the compromising. Aside from the tiny Israeli presence in Gaza, not a single settlement or outpost has been dismantled except that Israel has at least kept a lid on expansion of the settlement in Hebron.

MichaelNJ
You love to talk out of context a lot. When I was saying Palestinians did not use gun until 1990, that was under the Israeli occupation.

The reason other 3 countries have been peaceful with israel is that none of their territory is under israeli occupation and none of their citizens is being brutalized by Israel.

As the saying goes, "its occupation stupid". You surround someone house and threaten their family cut off their grocery supplies for two days. Then see how a peacful family reacts. Let alone for 41 years.

You are used to a cushy life and can't see from Palestinian lens.

I have never heard of a convoluted logic, that killing of Palestinians kids and woman is their fault. You morons compare the bleeding and dead palestinians kids with israeli kids sitting in bunkers and reading story books. All those who support Israel are out of their mind.

Palestinian rockets are fire crackers COMPARED to Israeli laser guided and cluster bombs. How about also giving them F16s and all the sophisticated weapons. Give them good delivery systems. The real difference will be visible then.

Brutality never lasts forever. Mark my words. Bible says so too. When Jesus will appear, Israel will be history anyway.

Have a good blood thirsty day, so you morons profess.

"WRONG! Mubarak Awad continues to advocate using non-violence instead of violence"

Not that I think this god-forsaken case from 20 years ago proves anything one way or another, but just for the record, he did advocate "nonviolence" side by side with an "armed struggle":

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940DE5DF1E38F93BA25756C0A96E948260

Peace will require compromise from both sides. Both groups feel the land is rightfully theirs.

Compromise will never happen as long as god remains in the equation. There needs to be a political solution. There will be no peace until there is some separation of church and state.

The US needs to promote peace, but avoid unilateral support of either side. No blind support of Israel.

P.S. -This is not the USA's problem to fix.

MARCEDWARD1 :

"MichaelNJ you are arguing for the doctrine of pre-emptive war."

I’m not arguing any doctrine. Preemptive strikes are sometimes called for and sometimes not. And like any other type of operation, they are sometimes successful and sometimes not. 1967 is a prime example of a preemptive war that was both called for and successful.

“Israel does not have the right to attack whomever they want to”:

Israel has not only the right but the obligation to defend itself against anyone attacking it, same as any country in the world, and that’s exactly what it is doing.

MSIDDIQU :

“First time Palestinians ever used a gun against Israeli occupying force was in 1990 (13 years after they were occupied). Somehow along the way things went out of control.

The first attacks by Arabs against Jews took place in 1920 in Jerusalem and the Galilee, which is decades before there was a State of Israel, let alone an occupation, and about 40 years before the local Arabs started calling themselves “Palestinians”. Needless to say, there were multiple terror attacks against Israel before 1967, between 1967 and 1990, and after 1990, so I have no idea how you came up with that 1990 date. Bottom line, as I said before, this conflict is perpetuated by the attacks of one side against the other, and that side is not the Israelis.

"That was when Israel decided to implement the "Final Solution" onto Palestinians.”

You are not doing yourself a favor by flaunting your ignorance and your prejudice. There is no such decision and never has been, and you don't even understand the meaning of the term.

I’m still waiting for anyone to explain why has there been no violence between Israel and 3 of its neighbors in 35 years, if it is such a warmongering nation.

Mr Mandela's greatly inspirational but now is retired. How about sending Mr Obama?

"As Israelis get the message that the occupation is the only barrier to peace, moderates will take over from the extremists in defending the true interest of their state: security through co-existence."

From the very beginning, even before Israel was a state, most but not all of the Zionist leaders advocated privately the eradication of Palestinians in the area being occupied by the Jews. This is recorded on several occasions by the Zionists NOT advocating it. Given that this attitude has continued through Golda Meir, Menachem Begin, and presently most Israeli politicians, why is the MSM preaching to Hamas? Why not get on the case of those who initiated the problems? Remember that Israel has had at least two opportunities to return to their original borders and have their security guaranteed by the Arab League. The Israelis didn't even consider the offer.

They continue to treat the West Bank the same way that the Afrikaaners treated the native Africans with required identification passes, road blocks, restrictions on: movement, education, and making a living while at the same time reserving the most productive land for their own people. This policy is not exactly designed to make friends and this policy may also be the reason that Mr. Mandela comes to mind as an example of someone who may lead the way out of the quagmire. But for some Nelson Mandela to emerge from the Israeli prisons, there has to be a Helen Sulzman (sp.?) on the other side, and there doesn't appear to be any such. Neither do the Israelis seem about to release from prison any of the political leaders they've been holding for decades.

Michaelnj wrote: "Contrary to his own claims, Mubarak Awad was no Mahatma Gandhi and no Martin Luther King. Those people advocated using nonviolent methods INSTEAD OF an armed struggle. Awad advocated using them IN ADDITION TO an armed struggle, which, as we all know, is equivalent to suicide bombing and other forms of terror in Palestinian doublespeak."

WRONG! Mubarak Awad continues to advocate using non-violence instead of violence.

Get your facts straight.

Wishful thinking... yes Pals need a Mandela or a Tutu but unfortunately such a leader would be quickly killed. Surveys consistently show strong support for suicide attacks on Israel and both Fatah and Hamas Charters explicitly call for Israel's destruction.

Have you forgotten ? The 1st Intifada was PEACEFUL ! thousands of Pals demonstrated and pressured a right-wing Israel to the negotiating table. It did work than.. Israel at Camp David accepted a 2 state solution offering up Gaza, 90% of West Bank and East Jeruselem. Peace was on hand !

What happened ? Arafat decided no.. he would not go to his grave as a peacemaker or nation-builder.. he choose to say no and walked away. Arafat than launched the disasterous 2d Intifada that killed 4000 and set back peace perhaps for generations. Very sad.. very tragic.

Yeah right. Why do you people all prattle and babble such inanity in the face of so much suffering.

The Palestinians were peaceful for 40 years after the occupation and look where that got them.

Ha'aretz Magazine, 8 October 2004 - Dov Weisglass, counsel to Ariel Sharon in an interview with Ari Shavit.
I still don't see how the disengagement plan helps here. What was the major importance of the plan from your point of view?
"The disengagement plan is the preservative of the sequence principle. It is the bottle of formaldehyde within which you place the president's formula so that it will be preserved for a very lengthy period. The disengagement is actually formaldehyde. It supplies the amount of formaldehyde that's necessary so that there will not be a political process with the Palestinians."

So you have carried out the maneuver of the century? And all of it with authority and permission?
"When you say 'maneuver,' it doesn't sound nice. It sounds like you said one thing and something else came out. But that's the whole point. After all, what have I been shouting for the past year? That I found a device, in cooperation with the management of the world, to ensure that there will be no stopwatch here. That there will be no timetable to implement the settlers' nightmare. I have postponed that nightmare indefinitely. Because what I effectively agreed to with the Americans was that part of the settlements would not be dealt with at all, and the rest will not be dealt with until the Palestinians turn into Finns. That is the significance of what we did. The significance is the freezing of the political process. And when you freeze that process you prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state and you prevent a discussion about the refugees, the borders and Jerusalem. Effectively, this whole package that is called the Palestinian state, with all that it entails, has been removed from our agenda indefinitely. And all this with authority and permission. All with a presidential blessing and the ratification of both houses of Congress. What more could have been anticipated? What more could have been given to the settlers?"

The history of post colonial Africa demonstrates that Mugabes are much more plentiful than Mandelas.

The Islamic world got one in Mustafa Kamel. That's pretty good for considering the worldwide track record.

"As Israelis get the message that the occupation is the only barrier to peace, moderates will take over from the extremists in defending the true interest of their state: security through co-existence."

See, here's the thing. Let's say, hypothetically, that Israel unilaterally withdrew today from the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. What would happen? Would there be peace? Occupation might be bad, and I don't necessarily advocate it. But I don't trust the leadership of the Palestinians, especially Hamas, to be peaceful once they are given power and true authority. I fear for Israel's safety, no matter what compromises Israel chooses to make.

MichaelNJ :
I think you have selective amnesia. First time Palestinians ever used a gun against Israeli occupying force was in 1990 (13 years after they were occupied). Somehow along the way things went out of control. That was when Israel decided to implement the "Final Solution" onto Palestinians.

You prefer to ignore the fact that Israelis have been tranguling Palestinians with blockades violating International Law.

Building settlements and grabbing Palestinian lands is also against the International Law.

I can tell you if someone tries to take food out of my childrens mouth and annexes part of my house to his, I will also violently resist. Though I have never used a gun in my life.

When you corner a population to desparation, violence results. Israel has pushed the Plaestinians. Under Geneva convention any occupied population has the right to resist the occupation. French and other European countries did against hitler.

History is witness that a cruel occupier falls the way it has never thought of. Need examples? I can give within the Middle East and beyond, from recent past to 5000 years back.

Have a good day.

MichaelNJ you are arguing for the doctrine of pre-emptive war.
How'd that work out in Iraq?
How'd that work out for the Germans in WW1?
Israel does not have the right to attack whomever they want to, they just get away with it because of American support in the UN. Israel hasen't fought a defensive war in the lifetime of most Americans, period.

I think a better analogy is they need a Desmond Tutu, Gandhi, or Martin Luther King.

msiddiqu:

All the operations listed, without exception, were in response to Arab attacks or Arab threats, which proves my point. The reason Israel's borders with Egypt, Jordan and Syria have been completely quiet for such a long time is that, with or without peace agreements, those countries have refrained from attacking it. Israel's fighting is for defensive purposes only. If it is not attacked, there is no violence. The day the palestinians will try the Egyptian model, they will have peace and freedom, and a country too, should they wish.

MichaelNJ,
1) Israel bombed in April 1981.
2) Israeli shot the first shot in 1967 war against the Arabs and still occupying the captured land except Mount Sinai for which we the American tax payers had to pay $5 billions to move the settlers. In those days, less $5 Bil was national budget for half od African countries.
3) Israel invaded Labenon twice and occupied it.
4) Israel blockaded Gaza strip for the last 18 months. Under International Law it is declaration of war. Remember Cuban blockade, it almost started a nuclear war.
5) Israel repeated bombs civilians in all of Palestinian areas in the name of bombing millitants, yeah sure, who confirms it, Israelis.
6) Under International Law protection of civilian population under occupation is the responsibility of the occupier.

I bet you don't remember what you ate for breakfast today, let alone history.

marcedward1,
1) Israel bombed in April 1981.
2) Israeli shot the first shot in 1967 war against the Arabs and still occupying the captured land except Mount Sinai for which we the American tax payers had to pay $5 billions to move the settlers. In those days, less $5 Bil was national budget for half od African countries.
3) Israel invaded Labenon twice and occupied it.
4) Israel blockaded Gaza strip for the last 18 months. Under International Law it is declaration of war. Remember Cuban blockade, it almost started a nuclear war.
5) Israel repeated bombs civilians in all of Palestinian areas in the name of bombing millitants, yeah sure, who confirms it, Israelis.
6) Under International Law protection of civilian population under occupation is the responsibility of the occupier.

I bet you don't remember what you ate for breakfast today, let alone history.

marcedward1 :

1. Israel bombed Iraq? what planet are you living on.

2. I am not being selective at all. I am asking anyone who claims Israel is the one initiating the violence to explain how come the violence occurs across some of Israel's borders, while others have been completely peaceful for decades. If Israel was the violent one, wouldn't there be violence on all her borders?

Even if Pope takes over the leadership of Palestinians, Israelis will find a way to blockade his home bomb all buildings around it and vitual make him under house arrest. Then blame him for not controlling violence hence reason for blockading the entire palestinian population.

And blockading is not illegal under Israeli and US perception of the Internation Law.

So help us God.

MichaelNJ - how selective you are claiming Israel hasn't used violence against 'three of it's neighbors'! Of course there were the unprovoked bombings in Iraq, the multiple invasions of Lebanon, the assassinations (via missiles, so lots of civilian deaths) of Palestinian leaders - gee, how peaceful! Israel's problems are of Israel's making.

One of the true indications that terror apologists have no case, is how desperate they get in their efforts to defend the indefensible, as in dredging up an obscure incident from 20 years ago which proves absolutely nothing, and waving it like a flag: Hey, look what I found!

Contrary to his own claims, Mubarak Awad was no Mahatma Gandhi and no Martin Luther King. Those people advocated using nonviolent methods INSTEAD OF an armed struggle. Awad advocated using them IN ADDITION TO an armed struggle, which, as we all know, is equivalent to suicide bombing and other forms of terror in Palestinian doublespeak. That's a big difference.

All those who claim that Israel is the one initiating the violence (presumably because violence is something inherent to the "Jewish nature" or the "Zionist Nature") are welcome to explain how is it that there has been zero violence between Israel and 3 of its neighbors for the last 35 years, and how does that fact fit in their theory.

Anyone who thinks the Israelis will negotiate with Palestinians advocating non-violent opposition to Israel forgots or ignores history. Israel promptly deported the leading Palestinian advocate of non-violence, Dr. Mubarak Awad, as soon as it saw he was having an effect. Even the US protested this.

"The fear that nonviolent protest will take root among the Palestinians has accompanied the conflict for many years, and the response of the Israeli authorities to nonviolent protest has been no less severe than their reaction to violent acts. We can recall the fury with which [Palestinian activist] Mubarak Awad was treated during the 1980s, when he tried to organize a group of Gandhi-style passive protesters." Meron Benvenisti, "An explosive, dangerous balance" (Haaretz, Feb. 29, 2008).

Any Palestinian Mandela or Ghandi would be quickly and brutally eliminated by Israel. History proves this.

And it shows the true nature of Israel.

The Truth will stand on its own merit. If you want to know the Truth, Google this:

"A Jewish Defector Warns America:

Benjamin Freedman Speaks"

The Palestinians need a new kind of leader. Someone who encourages peace by non-violent means. However, that will not happen because non-violent protests will not kill a single Jew...and Islam's ultimate goal is genocide of the Jews as a final solution to the blood feud by the children of Ishmael against the children of Issac.

With all due respect, anyone who asks the palestinian to be peaceful with the Israelis has never followed any non biased piece of news about what is happening in the palestinain occupied territoris nor has any idea about the history of the Israelis massacres against the palestinians. As a palestinian refugee myself, I can tell you about the turth but most poeple in the western world are not willing to hear it. Israel is bombing civilians and killing them, destroying mosques and school, attacking even the UN for trying to rescue the wounded and the sick, bombing even hospitals, what else do you want to believe that this is a barbaric state with sheep skin on the back to cover. If a stone is thrown at an Israeli synogogue, the whole western world will go up in arms. Double standards...let me think about it....oh God I can not decide!!!!

asizk:

When all of the occupied nations you speak of signed their treaties and ceasefire agreements they didn't do so with the intent of continuing to attack their enemies afterward. Just today on Al-Jazeera Abu Marzouq has clearly stated Hamas' intent to fire on Israel even after the proposed Eqypt-France brokered ceasefire agreement has been reached. That's not revolutionary, it's warmongering hypocrisy.

You're right on one account, the Palestinian people should stand up to their occupiers. But you also seem to have the idea, as does the Hamas leadership, that violence is the only way to do so. They gave it a shot, and rightfully so as anyone would, and it's clearly failed. There are other options. As I recall India had a rather lengthy non-violent opposition movement (as did the U.S. civil rights movement of the 1950's, 60's) that contributed directly to it's independence.

What you suggest the Palestinians do is exactly what Mr Rubiez decries in his article as ineffective. Status Quo methods and antiquated notions that there is only one way do win, yet the method has clearly failed again and again. What the Palestinians need is a changing of the guard, a chance to let the younger generations try their hand at lasting and earnest solution.

"Palestinians Must Try Peaceful Resistance" is a redundancy. If they tried peace they would find out resistance is unnecessary. They can have peace, freedom and their own land. All they need to do is want it.

Ghassan,

"Palestinians Must Try Peaceful Resistance."

This must be the most insulting and pathetic line I have ever heard in a long long time-especially coming from an "Arab American" "Commentator."

To start with,why don't u tell the occupiers,the tormentors and ethnic cleanesers of Palestinians to be peaceful???

What the Palestinians need so despeartely is their freedom,their stolen homeland and an end to the racist,apartheid and brutal jewish military occupation-the longest in modern history.

Any student of hsitory would come to the conclusion that no occupation ever ended with throwing red roses at the occupiers:Colonial Britian was evicted by the force of the American revolution,the Nazis by French freedom fighters and allied forces,and colonail France by the Algerian Liberation Front from Alegeria.Palestine was ethnically cleanesed and occupied by jewish violence and terrorism jewish gangs such as Haganah,Palmach,Stern and Irgun among others.

U need to do some serious reading and work on your objectivity and conscious-it is shocking to hear this from an "Arab" or any decent and fair minded human being while Gaza is going thru a real holocaust.

U might like to see Rashid Khaldi's piece in today's NY Times.

I have had the same thought - the Palestinians need their own Ghandi, the sooner the better. Of course the Israelis would just kill him, so I'm not sure how it would work out.

Mr Rubeiz:
What you propose is very logical. Yet when had the Arabs in general and the Palestinians in particular have followed the dictates of logic or pragmatism? Their whole worldview needs to be revamped toward a more realistic tenor.

And the Israelis need a Bishop Tutu!!!