Unfortunately, all religions can lay claim to swindlers and cheats. So to somehow ascribe Mr. Madoff's alleged crimes to his "faith" is disingenuos, hypocritical and comically simple.

While I agree with those who hope to see him prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law I in no way believe that his Jewish heritage plays a role in his criminality.

While most white collar crime cannot be compared directly to violent crime, it does not mean their consequences should be any less. Rather it should be weighed on a different scale that considers different criteria.

One criteria I think is the amount of consequences that one knows will be inflicted on others. You should be punished slightly differently for swindling $100,000 from a billionaire than taking the same from a middle class retired person.

I do hope, however, that no leniency is given because of his involvement in philanthropy. People who pickpocket or mug $10, $100 do not have the luxury to establish family foundations and give millions of dollars to charities. People who swindle billions of dollars do. You should not be praised for giving other people's money away, and certainly not be more praised the more money you managed to transfer away.

What a long and profound discussion explaining the difference between crime and sin, Jewish believes, and (yes) "The Madoff scandal." Smells too much like disclaimers, ich haben es nicht gewusst, and hanging out Madoff to dry. What is more interesting and I haven't read a thing about it yet is what happened with the $50 billion. Did he pocket it, give it to the blacks in Africa, or perhaps to his kids. My guess is he gave it to the Jews in Israel since jews don't care about Africa or their kids. He is 70 years old now and obviously is moving on, first in prison and then the graveyard. He doesn't care. But again, where is that $50 Million!!

RudeIsraeli Author Profile Page:

ISN'T IT TIME TO RE-READ KARL MARX'S RUMINATIONS ABOUT "THE JEWISH QUESTION" IN LIGHT OF ALL THESE FINANCIAL SCANDALS?
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Rockefeller the Christian of Chase Bank, JP Morgan, etc., all the bankers who caused our current fiscal crisis, AIG, etc., aren't in Marx.

Isn't it time you took you Sh*t for brains to church and got some holy water poured on your head? Maybe it might help.

ISN'T IT TIME TO RE-READ KARL MARX'S RUMINATIONS ABOUT "THE JEWISH QUESTION" IN LIGHT OF ALL THESE FINANCIAL SCANDALS?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jewish_Question

Easy there Farnaz, the comment about the RothSchilds having $1.5 billion was made to counter the claim that they were worth $500 trillion which you will find on all the crazy conspiracy group web pages.

" You don't have to be a rocket scientist to predict someone who was swindled and completely ruined by Maddof's fraud will choose not live any longer. Will then Maddof be considered a murderer? Something to ponder."

There have already been suicides since the crisis began. The Christians responsible are not even being held to account, let alone going to jail.

They're profiting. They're profiting hugely.

How come?

I read an indirect call from a blogger for compassion to Maddof. How about compassion to blue collar or low class criminals? There are two sets of laws in our society at least the way they are interpreted: one for the well to do (white criminals) -- pat them on the back and then will go back to whatever they were doing in no time; and the other for the downtrodden-- throw the bums in the slammer and hope they die there and never to be heard from. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to predict someone who was swindled and completely ruined by Maddof's fraud will choose not live any longer. Will then Maddof be considered a murderer? Something to ponder.

Then, Eric Holder will recommend to Obama that he should pardon the b*stard in 2016 before he leaves office, like he did with that other Talmudic "scholar", Marc Rich.

Will anyone pardon that great Christian Testament scholar Joe Ratzinger and vatican bank?

Just wondering....

What's the deal? Why is this even brought up on a religious forum. This has nothing to do with the Talmud, the Bible or the koran. This is about a common thief, a swindler and, regardless of what the judge thinks, a threat to society. Put this man in jail. If he has heart problems and can't get his medication, too bad. If he has diabetes and needs insulin, oh well. He does not belong on the streets of New York or anywhere near a phone.

For God's sake, the next thing you know he'll flee the country to get to the billions he has stashed overseas. Of course he's a flight risk!

Then, Eric Holder will recommend to Obama that he should pardon the b*stard in 2016 before he leaves office, like he did with that other Talmudic "scholar", Marc Rich.

C'mon folks. If he's going to live outside the walls of a prison at least put him where he belongs - in a trailer park in New Jersey.

Martial:

All ethnic groups have criminals among them; were this not so criminal justice systems would not be ubiquitous. Propounding ancestry or religion as causes of criminality is bigotry. Madoff's guilt is his alone.
____________________________________
Of course. We await comment from the bloggers whose "bigotry" should be obvious. (BIGOTRY: Thou shalt not bear false witness.)

In the meantime, stay tuned for more on Christian Bankers, their real estate and oil interests, their getting away with murder (literally), etc.
(This would include the Vatican, of course, although comparatively, they are minor players.)

Spark1 writes:

The whole money system is based on greed of few who have long monoplized this sector. On one hand rothchild holds 500 trilliion dollars while the US govt is debt ridden to approx 170 trillion to fed revs.

First, I fail to see the connection between the Rothchilds and our economic crisis whereas the connection between the (Christian) Rockefeller (Chase Bank), J.P. MOrgan, etc.--all the Christian banking families is quite clear. They sold these mortgages, etc., and are now foreclosing.

Christians, Muslims, Jews, Animists, etc., are all victims of these Christian bankers. Then there is AIG--Christian. Not only is the CEO not in jail, but I am paying for his retirement package, that of his, board, etc. AIG among the primary culprits--the Christian owned AIG--of our economic crisis.

Then of course there was Christian Enron.

Madoff and the Rothchilds have no connection. The cause of this crisis is deregulation initiated by Christian presidents, authorized by Christian Congresses.

-----------------------------------
Personally, I don't see this Madoff business as a religious issue. He's a criminal. But if we're going to get into the ten commandments, how about looking at those I mentioned above, CCNL?

And regarding Maddoff and banking practices (since he isn't a banker), I'd add this for Spark1 and CCNl, by implication:

Thou shalt not bear false witness.

Then, too, the Rothchilds might like in on violation of that commandment.

All ethnic groups have criminals among them; were this not so criminal justice systems would not be ubiquitous. Propounding ancestry or religion as causes of criminality is bigotry. Madoff's guilt is his alone.

CCNL:

As per Forbes Magazine the Rothchild family is worth 1.5 billion.

Spark 1:
Madoff matter is a tip of ice. The whole money system is based on greed of few who have long monoplized this sector. On one hand rothchild holds 500 trilliion dollars while the US govt is debt ridden to approx 170 trillion to fed revs.
To know the depth of see any website by congressman RON Paul or read the book "confession of an economic hitman"
I appreciate rabbi to point out to a very sensitive issue regarding sinful economical practices and God's Laws.

AS PER FORBES MAGAZINE, THE ROCKEFELLER (CHRISTIAN) FAMILY IS WORTH 8.5 BILLION DOLLARS. THAT WOULD BE CHASE BANK. WHO CONTROLS THE REST OF THE ECONOMY?

THE ROCKEFELLERS HAVE 8.5 billion, while the US is in such horrible debt, and then look at what the other banking families have.

So, maybe CCNL and Spark1, especially, can tell us the connections among Christian bankers, US debt to begin with?

I ask for their input since their reference to the Rothchilds seems to suggest a connection among faith, banking, and US debt. Since these Christian bankers have much more money, they would be the place for Spark1 and CCNL to begin their explanations.
SOME OTHER NOTABLE CHRISTIANS: CLICK ON THE LINK. THERE ARE OTHERS UPON WHOM I'LL POST SOON.

I TOO THANK THE RABBI FOR POINTING OUT SOME SENSITIVE BANKING PRACTICES.

I DO HOPE THAT WHATEVER GOD THERE MAY BE HAS MERCY ON THE SOULS OF SOME WHO HAVE BLOGGED HERE IN THE LAST TWENTY-FOUR HOURS.

http://www.forbes.com/2002/02/28/0228dynasties_print.html

A couple of bloggers have written about the Rothchild family. I'm a little perplexed. What does the Rothchild family have to do with Madoff?

How much does the Walton family own? I'm referring to the owners of Wal-mart. This is a family that exploits the poorest of the poor in third-world nations, people who work sixteen hours a day, live in dirt-floor shacks, brush their teeth with ash. The Waltons, a Christian family, is the wealthiest business family in the world.

They, unlike Levi-Strauss, which held out until it almost went bankrupt before moving overseas, refuse to cooperate at all, AT ALL, with human rights organizations.

THAT WOULD BE THE CHRISTIAN WALTON FAMILY, whose Christian shoppers stampeded and killed a man in Long Island last week. Five thousand people stampeded this man. Walked over his body.

Now, what shall we do with these good Christian Waltons? These good Christian shoppers?

What, you may ask, do they have to do with Madoff?
Oh, as much as the Rothchilds, I guess.

Question 2: The Security and Exhange Commission (Christian) was informed of Madoff's schemining in 1999, but just investigated last week, according to the New York Times. Could these Christians possibly have made money from the scam? (Duh) And, if so, how come they're not being investigated?

Question 3: Why is the Christian Poulson who knew about the the impending mortgage crisis for years, was warned for years, by among others the Nobel PRize winning economist (Jewish) not being indicted? He, Poulson, who earned millions and millions? This Christian secretary of the treasury?

Questions 4: How come I'm paying for the humongous retirement package of the AIG CEO, and he isn't in jail?

David, maybe you can tell us: if Mr. Madoff took $50 billion from the US Jewish community, how much is left? Does this $50bn equal 1%... or 30%... or...? I can't imagine this loss returning the community to sweatshops on the Lower East Side, but... if you can estimate it... how big a hit is this going to be?

This is the second piece I have read here today. The first was calling for compassion, and here we see someone treading carefully so as no to be too judgemental of Madoff. He was calculating and intentional in his theft, which rapaciously ripped money from charitable institutions, pension funds, universities, town, cities and so much more. He is a vile man.

As far as I am concerned, Madoff should be tied to a stake, on Wall Street, right in front of the stock market, and publicly horsewhipped. All Wall Street executives should be required to watch.

May God forgive me.

I think the authorities should check extremely carefully to see what Madoff may have hidden in offshore accounts, etc. They might find that he has a lot more than the 300 million left which could be returned to those he victimized.

I did not realize that a crook can use the stolen funds as bail. Isn't America wonderful?

All of these white collar criminals are just as terrible as the "thugs" on the streets who prey on the average citizen. I just hope he and as many others like him are justly punished. I just don't understand why they aren't all living and eating in the same jail cells. Rotten bastards! Stealing, robbing and hustling just like the people on the streets. No difference at all. Punished by being trapped in his $7 million dollar apartment? That's a crime in itself.

As per Forbes Magazine, the net worth of the entire Rothschilds' family is estimated to be $1.5 billion.

My daughter and her husband were victims of this terrible theft - and one of their first concerns was how was their congregation going to find the replacement money for their pledge which they cannot make now. When friends are asking them "what can we do for you?" they are telling them to contribute to help make up this loss.
How sad it is and what a bad example for their generation!!!

Madoff matter is a tip of ice. The whole money system is based on greed of few who have long monoplized this sector. On one hand rothchild holds 500 trilliion dollars while the US govt is debt ridden to approx 170 trillion to fed revs.
To know the depth of see any website by congressman RON Paul or read the book "confession of an economic hitman"
I appreciate rabbi to point out to a very sensitive issue regarding sinful economical practices and God's Laws.

As per the RCC Catechism, there are five sins that cry out to Heaven for Vengeance:

(1) Wilful murder - the blood of Abel, [Gen. 4:10]

(2) The sin of the Sodomites, [Gen. 18:20; 19:13]

(3) The cry of the people oppressed in Egypt, [Ex. 3:7-10]

(4) The cry of the foreigner, the widow and the orphan, [Ex. 20:20-22] and

(5) Injustice to the wage earner. [Deut. 24:14-5; Jas. 5:4]

Madoff is guilty of 3, 4 and 5. In case there is no Hell or God, vengeance should be meted out here and now!!! All assets sold and returned to those cheated and life in prison without parole.

We don't need any more rabbis or
money grubbing theme park christists
(to say nothing of bush inspired
jeaus freak two faced politicos of
the bush/james dobson persuasion)
telling america "where it went wrong"

Get thee away from me SATAN !!!!!!!

I must say the question of whether Mr. Madoff's actions constitute sin or not is moot, at best. That is for God to decide. As for crime of untold callouness and selfiness this is easy to discern. Often I find that much too much time is spent trying to label people's actions instead of trying to understand and learn from them. Mr. Madoff was able to swindle scores of investors because of the front he presented, never mind that his claims were wild at best and easily seen as pie in the sky at worst. All those who invested with this man without understanding one of the fundamental tenents of investing; never trust a sure thing!, are reaping the bitter fruit of their greed (i.e. the Ascot Group).

I'm a firm believer in the the seperation of church and state as well as church and commerce. Nothing good comes of either!

Truly, I can't comprehend the point of this article. A swindler is a swindler. I mean, true, some people like born again Christian Poulson made hundreds of millions before shutting down the mortgage scam, and he won't go to prison.

I mean, true, the CEO of AIG got a humongous retirement package instead of a jail sentence.

Etc., Etc., Etc.

I mean, true, the lying president former secretary of defense, etc., etc., never was impeached, etc.

And I mean Born Again Poulson and Bush read the Christian Testament. And what about Born Once (one too many times) Cheney, that great Christian, whose Haliburton sammed the Iraqi and American people in more ways than one.

I mean all these Christian crooks not only scammed their own kind, but us J people, Muslims, you name it--seems to be part of their heritage. Check out the Indian Reservations lately?

And? So? Point? Just because they scam everyone and don't go to jail, just because they send us into a worldwide depression doesn't mean Madoff shouldn't.

I think, indeed, he should. BUT NOT ALONE. CERTAINLY, THE SEC CHRISTIANS WHO WERE MADE AWARE OF THE SCAM IN 1999 OUGHT TO BE UP THERE WITH HIM IN COURT.

And then, we have the reborn prez, vp born too many times, reborn poulson, etc., etc., etc. Yunno, the ones who scam all of us, who sent the world into a depression, who slaughter iraqis, etc., etc., etc.

that's odd- I never hear someone say a Christian swindler- and assuredly there are far more of them. Thanks for adding so much to the dialogue,ravitchn. It's always such a pleasure when someone such as yourself has so much intelligent analysis to add to the thread. Maybe they didn't trust a gentile- probably most of them have run into someone like you too many times .

Twelve percent return year after year ? The proverb says: if something looks too good to be true, then it is not true. The investors got what they deserve. Did he sinned? That is an open and shut case. Will he go to the inferno? No, because there is no inferno, no paradise.

Madoff was Jewish? All the articles I read did not mention that fact. What does the Jewish faith say about greed and making an obscene amount of profit?

Madoff is a Jewish swindler right out of a Balzac novel. It is interesting that most of his victims seem to be Jewish. I guess they didn't trust a gentile swindler.

In America, and probably elsewhere, because "white collar" folks control the government, they also control the content of laws that are passed. Their crimes do pay because they pay their fine, do their time and still leave prison as very rich people.

For those guilty of destroying other folks money, when they get out of prison, they should be given a small $50k home (TX rates, about 1200 sq feet) and not a cent in the bank. Let them earn their way back.