Mr. Haber-
Any religion or organization that has over 5000 years of history is not going to be a static entity. the first thing to understand is that much of the law in the bible was based on the Code of Hammurabi and that code, as strict or extreme as it may seem to us today, was not only a product of its times, it was an attempt to codify and balance behavior. Most people think an eye for an eye is about revenge. It's not- it about the fairness of punishment for a crime. You don't lop off someone's head for stealing bread. (Unfortunately, some still do) And since we are assessing those early times through a 5000 year deep filter, it may be hard for us to really understand the how and why of those times.

the bible is a function of its time as well. But certain central axioms are in place. the Golden rule in Judaism is "Do unto Others as you would have others do unto you." This is the heart of Judaism. One of the rules for keeping kosher is that it is a crime to "boil a kid in its own mother's milk." This is a moral restriction, whereas the restriction against pork and shellfish can be traced to safety issues of those times, such as trichinosis from pork. Of course this is one view of the bible- I am sure others have different views.

You shouldn't interpret the bible literally- much of it is grounded in its historical timeframe and many, if not most of us are not historical experts. Suffice it also to say that Jesus was a rabbi, his teaching was based on and grounded in his faith. the whole idea of Apocalypse, and burning in hell for not believing in him came from the men who wrote the gospels years later. There is not much healing the world in the New testament except for your fellow believers.

"Arminius:
Mr. Bronfman, you said,
"This Yom Kippur, let us stand together as Jews and non-Jews and take responsibility for healing our world."

This Christian agrees, yes! We've all been whining and hand-wringing too long.

Paganplace,
Ya ain't makin' sense."

In light of the above:
Does this make sense?

Welcome back to the world, friends, We got catching up to do. :)

Ryan Haber:

RE: The TANAKH

It is good that you are reading the Hebrew Bible with its particular books in the order in which they were "canonized."

You will not understand Judaism from the Bible anymore than a non-Christian could know the various denominations of Christianity and Catholicism from reading the Christian testament.

You will, I hope, read some of the great theologians through the centuries, including this one, the Talmud, etc.

If you do not read these texts, well, then you will not find answers to the questions you ask, or to most of the questions that Judaism asks. Realize, too, that just as there are different Christianities, as it were, there are different Judaisms, very different.

Regards,
Farnaz

t2123

You write:

I recall as a child being kicked out of a neighborhood orthodox synagogue on the high holidays because I hadn't purchased a seat.

Interesting. Which synagogue? Where is it? I ask because as you know, synagogues have limited means to support themselves, since they don't tithe, don't permit money inside the temple, etc. Hence, the seats on the high holy days. BUT, seats are always set aside for those who cannot afford to pay. ALWAYS.

Always, as well, if one's parents pay, and somehow, a child can squeeze in, they squeeze in.
Where were your parents on this grievous occasion?

I recall as a child being kicked out of a neighborhood orthodox synagogue on the high holidays because I hadn't purchased a seat. I don't know whether that tradition has changed, but I never go back.
Also, Judaism seems to have become as much political, i.e., support Israel right or wrong, as a religion.

I'm sorry. The previous post ought to have been addressed to Mr. Bronfman. But really, I'll be happy for pointers from anyone - pointers from Judaism itself, and not from humanitarian or religious-pluralist philosophies, since that would be begging the question of how Judaism leads to those philosophies. Thanks.

Ryan Haber
Kensington, MD

Dear Mr. Hirschfield,

While I am not a Jew, my father is a convert from Judaism, and my siblings and I were raised to be comfortable with Judaism, if not exactly well versed in it.

Right now, I am a doctoral student in Biblical Studies and am taking my first Hebrew class. As a tangent, it's a beautiful language, and except for the rather nastily complicated phonology, it is much nicer than Syriac, for instance. I've read most of the Hebrew Scriptures in English, and am eager to do so in Hebrew.

What I don't get, and maybe you can enlighten me, is how Judaism - at least as presented in its scriptures - is a religion about us healing the world. On every page of the of Hebrew Scriptures, I see the explicit hope (Judaism is very much a religion of hope) that God will rescue His people; and the prophets in particular, as well as the promises to Abraham, make it clear that the Israelite people is to be a light to the whole world and the means by which the rest of the nations also enter into relationship with the Lord. Trusting in God and being a light to the world certainly entail obedience to the Law of God; that much is on every page as well. The Law is good, very good moreover. The longest psalm is a great, long ode to the Law of the Lord.

But nowhere do I read that Judaism is a set of foundational narratives to inspire us to humanitarianism. I am not criticizing anything, but looking for pointers about how you've come to that conclusion (unless I've misread you because of overhaste). Thanks in advance.

Ryan Haber
Kensington, MD

Abraham founder/father of three major religions was either the embellishment of the lives of three different men or a mythical character as was mythical Moses, the "Tablet-Man" who talked to burning bushes and made much mythyical magic in Egypt.

Many of the 1.5 million Conservative Jews and many of their rabbis (Rabbi Wolpe) have relegated Abraham to the myth pile along with most if not all the OT.

Current crisis:
Realization that the Jews are not god's not chosen people.
www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/ConservativeTorah.htm

IT IS A SIGN BETWEEN ME AND THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL FOR EVER
I TOOK THE TWO TABLES, AND CAST THEM OUT OF MY TWO HANDS, AND BRAKE THEM BEFORE YOUR EYES.

THE MAGICIANS SAID UNTO PHARAOH, THIS IS THE FINGER OF GOD: AND PHARAOH'S HEART WAS HARDENED
TWO TABLES OF TESTIMONY, TABLES OF STONE, WRITTEN WITH THE FINGER OF GOD.
THEY ARE QUICKLY TURNED ASIDE OUT OF THE WAY WHICH I COMMANDED THEM; THEY HAVE MADE THEM A MOLTEN IMAGE.

And the Lord said unto Moses, Say unto Aaron, Stretch out thy rod, and smite the dust of the land, that it may become lice throughout all the land of Egypt.
And they did so; for Aaron stretched out his hand with his rod, and smote the dust of the earth, and it became lice in man, and in beast; all the dust of the land became lice throughout all the land of Egypt.
And the magicians did so with their enchantments to bring forth lice, but they could not: so there were lice upon man, and upon beast.
Then THE MAGICIANS SAID UNTO PHARAOH, THIS IS THE FINGER OF GOD: AND PHARAOH'S HEART WAS HARDENED, and he hearkened not unto them; as the Lord had said.

IT IS A SIGN BETWEEN ME AND THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL FOR EVER: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, TWO TABLES OF TESTIMONY, TABLES OF STONE, WRITTEN WITH THE FINGER OF GOD.

When I was gone up into the mount to receive the tables of stone, even the tables of the covenant which the Lord made with you, then I abode in the mount forty days and forty nights, I neither did eat bread nor drink water:
And THE LORD DELIVERED UNTO ME TWO TABLES OF STONE WRITTEN WITH THE FINGER OF GOD; and on them was written according to all the words, which the Lord spake with you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly.
And it came to pass at the end of forty days and forty nights, that the Lord gave me the two tables of stone, even the tables of the covenant.
And the Lord said unto me, Arise, get thee down quickly from hence; for thy people which thou hast brought forth out of Egypt have corrupted themselves; THEY ARE QUICKLY TURNED ASIDE OUT OF THE WAY WHICH I COMMANDED THEM; THEY HAVE MADE THEM A MOLTEN IMAGE.
Furthermore the Lord spake unto me, saying, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:
Let me alone, that I may destroy them, and blot out their name from under heaven: and I will make of thee a nation mightier and greater than they.
So I turned and came down from the mount, and the mount burned with fire: and the two tables of the covenant were in my two hands.
And I looked, and, behold, ye had sinned against the Lord your God, and had made you a molten calf: ye had turned aside quickly out of the way which the Lord had commanded you.
And I TOOK THE TWO TABLES, AND CAST THEM OUT OF MY TWO HANDS, AND BRAKE THEM BEFORE YOUR EYES.

VICTORIA
Well said Arminius- count me in.

Mr. Bronfman, you said,
"This Yom Kippur, let us stand together as Jews and non-Jews and take responsibility for healing our world."

This Christian agrees, yes! We've all been whining and hand-wringing too long.

Paganplace,
Ya ain't makin' sense.

Quoting “The ten Days of Awe, which begin with Rosh Hashanah, the Jewish New Year, offer a period of time in which we reexamine ourselves.”

Then Abraham gave up the Ghost, and died in a good old age, an old man, and full of years; and was gathered to his people.
And his sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah, in the field of Ephron the son of Zohar the Hittite, which is before Mamre;

“And his sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him”

These are the sons of Ishmael, and these are their names, by their towns, and by their castles; twelve princes according to their nations.
And these are the years of the life of Ishmael, an hundred and thirty and seven years: and he gave up the Ghost and died; and was gathered unto his people.

these are the years of THE LIFE OF ISHMAEL, AN HUNDRED AND THIRTY AND SEVEN YEARS
“and was gathered unto his people”

And these are the names of the sons of Levi according to their generations; Gershon, and Kohath, and Merari: and the years of the life of Levi were an hundred thirty and seven years.
The sons of Gershon; Libni, and Shimi, according to their families.
And the sons of Kohath; Amram, and Izhar, and Hebron, and Uzziel: and the years of the life of Kohath were an hundred thirty and three years.
And the sons of Merari; Mahali and Mushi: these are the families of Levi according to their generations.
And Amram took him Jochebed his father's sister to wife; and she bare him Aaron and Moses: and the years of the life of Amram were an hundred and thirty and seven years.

the years of THE LIFE OF LEVI WERE AN HUNDRED THIRTY AND SEVEN YEARS.
the years of THE LIFE OF KOHATH WERE AN HUNDRED THIRTY AND THREE YEARS.
the years of THE LIFE OF AMRAM WERE AN HUNDRED AND THIRTY AND SEVEN YEARS

And Isaac called Jacob, and blessed him, and charged him, and said unto him, Thou shalt not take a wife of the daughters of Canaan.
Arise, go to Padanaram, to the house of Bethuel thy mother's father; and take thee a wife from thence of the daughters of Laban thy mother's brother.
And God Almighty bless thee, and make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, that thou mayest be a multitude of people;
And give thee the blessing of Abraham, to thee, and to thy seed with thee; that thou mayest inherit the land wherein thou art a stranger, which God gave unto Abraham.

“And Isaac called Jacob, and blessed him”
“GOD ALMIGHTY BLESS THEE”
“make thee fruitful”
“and multiply thee”
“that thou mayest be a multitude of people”
“AND GIVE THEE THE BLESSING OF ABRAHAM”
“TO THEE, AND TO THY SEED WITH THEE”
“that thou mayest inherit the land wherein thou art a stranger”

And the Lord said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do;
Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?
For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the Lord, to do justice and judgment; that the Lord may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

“SEEING THAT ABRAHAM SHALL SURELY BECOME A GREAT AND MIGHTY NATION”
“and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?”
“FOR I KNOW HIM”
“THAT HE WILL COMMAND HIS CHILDREN AND HIS HOUSEHOLD AFTER HIM”
“AND THEY SHALL KEEP THE WAY OF THE LORD”
“TO DO JUSTICE AND JUDGMENT”
“that the Lord may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.”

And Moses said unto the Lord, See, thou sayest unto me, Bring up this people: and thou hast not let me know whom thou wilt send with me. Yet thou hast said, I know thee by name, and thou hast also found grace in my sight.

“And Moses said unto the Lord, SEE”
“thou sayest unto me, Bring up this people”
”and thou hast not let me know whom thou wilt send with me”
”YET THOU HAST SAID”
“I KNOW THEE BY NAME”
”and thou hast also found grace in my sight”

Abraham
Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob
Israel, Moses, Solomon, Mordecai, Jeremiah, Judah Maccabee, Judas
Abraham, Jacob

And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
Speak unto Aaron and unto his sons, saying, On this wise ye shall bless the children of Israel, saying unto them,
The Lord bless thee, and keep thee:
The Lord make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The Lord lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.
And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel, and I will bless them.

“On this wise ye shall bless the children of Israel, saying unto them”
“The Lord bless thee” - Israel
“and keep thee” - Moses
“The Lord make his face shine upon thee” - Solomon
“be gracious unto thee” - Mordecai
“The Lord lift up his countenance upon thee” - Jeremiah
“give thee peace” - JUDAH Maccabee
“And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel” - JUDAS
“and I will bless them” - Abraham, Jacob

“the day that the Lord made the earth and the heavens”
“And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel”
“and I will bless them”

Great tradition!!! Absent History!!!!

*sigh*

Cause obviously, the best thing to do is accept only the worst in all religions....

This is all b.s. Jews are just as selfish as Christians. Let's give up all this nonsense and admit that religion is a fraud -- even Judaism, godforbid!