Dear Dr. Singh,

Thanks very much for yet another illuminating article.

It makes sense when you point out that the God is not a 'micromanager' and that "Guru Granth has moral clarity and the vocabulary to express it without maudlin oversimplification or self-righteous hubris".

Many individuals tend to look at everything from a logical perspective. Gurbani and Sikhism makes complete logical sense as long as one makes an effort to understand.

Ėvad ūcẖā hovai ko▫e.
Ŧis ūcẖe ka▫o jāṇai so▫e.

Only one as Great and as High as God
can know His Lofty and Exalted State.

Saṯgur kī jis no maṯ āvai so saṯgur māhi samānā.
One who accepts the wisdom of the True Guru's Teachings, is absorbed into the True Guru.

Thanks.

An excellent article! Hope it'll encourage readers to explore the Guru Granth through many of its English translations. Nikky G.K.Singh's "Songs of My Beloved" is a good place to start, if I may say so. Would love to see more on Sikhism in both the Washington Post and Newsweek. Thanks.

Inderjit,

Thanks for sharing your journey.Sikhism is a unique way of life which gives us the tools to learn wills and will nots rather than cans and can nots.The way of life based on pragmatism not on self created dogmas that can see oneness in all, irrespective of our hue,creed or faith.

When Neil Armstrong stepped on the surface of the moon on 21 July 1969, he was in awe while savouring the 'WOW' factor of the Creator. He rightfully uttered, "That's one small step for [a] man, one giant leap for mankind."

Guru Nanak showed us the same 500 years ago when he said," There is ONE SOURCE of ALL- Ik Ong Kaar.

In fact, if one reads the Bill of Rights,one would see Sikh values echoing in each word.

As long as we keep on dwelling in Me-ism rather than seeking Oneness in ALL, the hatred and intolerance will not cease to exist. However, when some patches of the world societies start pushing this self created hatred out of their circles, then only we can see some positive changes. Mind you, faiths based hatred is the only glue that binds them. So, the whole new mind set based on pragmatism is needed. Only pragmatic thought process can work as TIDE to wash away the muck created by the dogmas which has left us soiled within.

Thanks for bringing Sikh way of life in this forum so that all those who are unaware of it can also savour the beauty they all hold within, and that beauty is to be able to embrace all as ONE.As the Guru Granth says:" I see no stranger, I feel no enmity".

I was happily enjoying remembering past readings and positive associations -and the first words you say to me are this-

"Victoria, you are mistaking Kabir,..."

Don't worry about my mistakes- in the future- just let them alone.
If the first words you say to a person is telling them they are mistaken-
to claim a defense of themselves is unwarranted- just is not believable.

If you want to talk as equals- that is okay- but you never do- so let's, as I have requested maybe 6 times on these boards-
let's just agree to disagree, pleeeeeease?

"I was merely pointing out how I had experienced the practice of religion by the majority in my circle of acquaintance, and common knowledge about India, while I lived there."

That would be fine- but you weren't.
you actually posted this 3 separate times-

If"Sikhism based on what an immigrant Sikh American told you"

"information you had from an American Sikh was more"

"what a Sikh immigrant to the US told you about Sikhism and Guru Nanak"

Although I repeatedly stated it was a community, not a lone person.

So, you kept commenting puon my own base of information- not your own.
It is the subtle way you minimize the importance or validity of my own experiences- you do it every time you encounter me- and it is a passive agessive competiton with you.

You don't need to always be correcting me- or rephrasing what I write- it is disrepsectful and condescending-.

Yet you always do it-I have asked you many many times not to- but it seems to be a compulsion on your part because you cannot understand how a Catholic can leave the faith to become Muslim.

Stop correcting me, and you will have no occasions to be 'taken aback".

testing

Testing. My comment has disappeard.

Victoria, I'm somewhat taken aback by your unwarranted reaction.

At least three times I mentioned I was referring only to your claim about the folklore associated with Kabir's death. You stretch that simple thing all out of proportion and accuse me of all sorts of things I never mentioned. Why??? I didn't speak for Sikhs in general, leave alone American Sikhs in particular. I was merely pointing out how I had experienced the practice of religion by the majority in my circle of acquaintance, and common knowledge about India, while I lived there.

I shared two additional wisdom stories I had read that seemed similar to the one you related about Guru Nanak on his trip to Mecca by way of adding to the wisdom stories, to make the point of common traits of mystics from all religious traditions. I'm confused why you have taken offense about that.

As to the wisdom story you related: I had no idea that Guru Nanak had made a trip to Mecca in the first place! He was born a Hindu in Punjab so I'm at a loss to figure out why he would go to Mecca. On the other hand I could well imagine the wisdom story you related attributed to Mullah Nasruddin, who is a Sufi mystic.

I enjoy wisdom stories no matter which tradition it comes from. Why should any wisdom story related to Guru Nanak mean less or more to me?

And however did you drag Islam negatively into this discussion when I mentioned no more than something positive about Kabir, who is known as a mystic, equally revered by Muslims and Hindus and as it turns out has even a place in Sikh Scripture?

I'm not aware of any discrimination of Muslims in Australia. Quite the contrary is true. Australian Muslims are keen to be loyal Australians and non-Muslim Australians accept them as they are, as Australians who happen to practice the religion of Islam.

How in the world can you characterize your experiences as rare, when you and everyone else in your city practice the same form of religion, and you still practice it?

"Since you implied that the information you had from an American Sikh was more reliable than what I had learned in school, I elaborated how someone need not necessarily be fully informed about their faith."

Not "an American Sikh" A community of Sikhs-
So, now, you, an immigrant from India who is Catholic, know better than a community of immgirants from India, who actively practice their own religion, about their religion?

That is pretty hard to swallow.

Quit trying to diminish the importance of Islam to Guru Nanak. The Sikhs and Muslims share in common their rising early and washing themselves to pray, and praying at appointed times throughout the day.

O know the story about the lingam-
it is not Guru Nanak's story- so why try to minimize it?

You always turn your conversations into subtle invalidations of Islam- but this article points out the problems Prof. Singh had being MISTAKEN for a Muslim- so just imagine the virtiol we have endured in America if one actually IS a Muslim!

I know Australia is even worse. As I have friends there.

Now, all Sikhs in America are misinformed or lacking but you know better?
That is pretty far fetched, so please- stop trying to convince me of the superiority of your own take on it.
You miss the whole point here.

A Shiva Lingam is supposed to have appeared under the feet of the Hindu sage no matter where his disciples placed his legs.

The same story is also related in slightly different way about a sage who had rested his feet on a copy of Holy Scripture, the sage explaining that God was not trapped in the pages of a book and that the word of God is the spirit of God not the paper on which spiritual wisdom about God is written on.

The moral of the story to me is that at the level of mysticism, beyond rituals, all religions meet.

We are both agreed people reach God in different ways, and oneupmanship is not necessary at all. I think the Quran conveys the message that we should compete only at the level of doing good works for others.

Let me leave it at that for now.

Victoria:

" On his fourth great journey in life Guru Nanak dressed in the blue garb of a Muslim pilgrim traveled to the west and visited Mecca, Medina and Baghdad. Arriving at Mecca, Guru Nanak fell asleep with his feet pointing towards the holy Kabba. When the watchman on his night rounds noticed this he kicked the Guru, saying, "How dare you turn your feet towards the house of God". At this Guru Nanak woke up and said, "Good man, I am weary after a long journey. Kindly turn my feet in the direction where God is not."

The direction where God is not."

Victoria, I have read the same story as a wisdom tale about a Hindu Sannyasi who shocked his disciples by resting his legs on a Shiva Lingam. When he told his disciples to rest his legs where God, merely represented by the Shiva Lingam, did not exist, his disciples were surprised when a Shiva Lingam appeared

Victoria, here Professor I J Singh in his own words from the link posted earlier:

'Most Sikhs, when they come from India, are at best cultural Sikhs and know very little of the rudiments of their faith. Living here in a predominantly non-Sikh milieu they either become better Sikhs or they abandon Sikhism. Sometimes I wonder what would have happened to me had I lived my life in India.'

My position isn't exactly the same. I have shared enough information about my spiritual journey while in India, on this forum, so I do not wish to go into it. While my journey is not rare in India among Indians and people seek spiritual depth in different ways, my journey was also not the norm among the people I grew up or associated with.

It is not about people following traditions blindly; it is more about not many people feeling a deeper spiritual longing because one is so caught up with everyday realities of life to feel a need for a deeper dimension. Then of course there is the influence of the community one is exposed to, the environment in one's own family, and most importantly one's own inclinations and choices.

However spiritual journey is not without its traps and the thousand ways in which one can get lost along the way. If one lets up one falls back so quickly, even lower than when one was when one began. So what knowledge or spiritual insight I may have gained in the past when I took my spiritual journey seriously does not give any indication about where I am spiritually today.

Back on topic: I'm glad though the discussion of the folklore around Kabir's death is behind us.

I do not and did not poo poo any website. Once again, I only mentioned that I do not take any information from a website that is not a primary source as infallible. Even a primary source is not perfect,

As to the incident of Guru Nanak in

Victoria you wrote, 'Well, ok- that is reasonable- I guess-
but aren't you in exactly the same position?

You're from India, you emigrated to Australia,
even the author of the article, Professor Singh, is from India, and emigrated to America.

So, aren't you both liable to the same criticism as that you are using on the (plural- not singular) Sikhs in Calif?'

I can only repeat that I was only referring to the Kabir folklore which you attributed to Guru Nanak, and NOTHING else. Since you implied that the information you had from an American Sikh was more reliable than what I had learned in school, I elaborated how someone need not necessarily be fully informed about their faith.

Soja- from India to Australia
Pr. Singh from India to America
Sikh Community from India to America!
Victoria from America to America
Victoria from Catholicism to Islam!

Victoria posts http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Guru_Nanak

Soja then posts-
http://www.sikhiwiki.com/index.php/Dr._I.J._Singh

See the harmony?
Unifying factor?
Respect and love of the wisdom of the Guru Nanak

Yay! we're all winners!

Hi Soja-

"Reason why I emphasized the immigrant status of the person you got your information from: they are removed from the original source of their religion and from what I know about practice of religion in India, most people (I do not say all), including Christians (even if they attend Church regularly), are cultural believers who follow rituals and celebrations but do not engage in learning about their faith."

Well, ok- that is reasonable- I guess-
but aren't you in exactly the same position?

You're from India, you emigrated to Australia,
even the author of the article, Professor Singh, is from India, and emigrated to America.

So, aren't you both liable to the same criticism as that you are using on the (plural- not singular) Sikhs in Calif?

Oct 18-12:06PM

"most people including Christians, are cultural believers who follow rituals and celebrations but do not engage in learning about their faith."

I couldn't agree more-
By your own reasoning you are saying that most people follow traditions blindly- with no deep exploration of the truth of their childhood indoctrinated faith.

I find this to be pretty universally true.
I'll disagree with the part where you pooh pooh the webiste I posted as questionable though- and not to get info from them- and then you posted the exact same website after me!

I don't think it magically changed-
but, hey, maybe you are right about he death of Guru Nanak-
it's not his (or anyone on the planet, living or dead) whose death moves me though-
It was his life that was remarkable, and his life that is celebrated here-

On his fourth great journey in life Guru Nanak dressed in the blue garb of a Muslim pilgrim traveled to the west and visited Mecca, Medina and Baghdad. Arriving at Mecca, Guru Nanak fell asleep with his feet pointing towards the holy Kabba. When the watchman on his night rounds noticed this he kicked the Guru, saying, "How dare you turn your feet towards the house of God". At this Guru Nanak woke up and said, "Good man, I am weary after a long journey. Kindly turn my feet in the direction where God is not."

The direction where God is not.

Well, if you want to be right-ok- poof- you are right!
I am not overly interested in WHO it happened to- the message and beauty of the story overwhelm the individual ego that it happened upon-

I have found my path- you are on yours- hooray for us both!

Victoria, you are free to believe whatever you want. I only said that the folklore concerning Kabir's death should not be attributed to Guru Nanak, and why I consider my source of information about it much more reliable than that of the immigrant Sikh you seem to have got your information from.

Victoria, you wrote, "There was a Sikh community I interacted with regularly in S.Cal.
They were ALL immigrants, from India if I recall correctly. And lifelong practicing Sikhs.
They were lovely people.
Would it had been better if my information was from American born converts? There were a few of them too.
Why the emphasis on their immigrant status?
You're an immigrant from India to Australia, should people doubt the authenticity of your version of your practice of faith?
Considering the conflict of interest between Christians and Sikhs competing for the souls of non-Brahmins- there is a possibility that you kids were taught one version, while other kids were taught another."

The reason why I emphasized the immigrant status of the person you got your information from: they are removed from the original source of their religion and from what I know about practice of religion in India, most people (I do not say all), including Christians (even if they attend Church regularly), are cultural believers who follow rituals and celebrations but do not engage in learning about their faith. Being nice does not necessarily guarantee that they are well informed about their faith, and mind you I'm ONLY referring to the folklore about Kabir you mentioned, which I learned in school which you attribute to Guru Nanak, the founder of Sikhism based on what an immigrant Sikh American told you.

The school, I attended for eight years and passed out from, where I learned some of Kabir's poems in the original and the legend concerning his death, is NOT run by the Syrian-Catholic Church (I attended a convent school run by Syro-Malabar Catholic nuns only for two years). I mentioned already it was a national school with the same curriculum all over India. It is a secular school and has no conflict of interest with any religion, and Sikhs are as much part of the staff as Hindus. Sikhs and Syro-Malabar Catholics are not proletyzing religious groups. To the best of my knowlege Sikhs are almost all Punjabis or of Punjabi origin and I know for certain that Syro-Malabar Catholics are mostly in Kerala or are ethnically from there. Punjab and Kerala are hardly next door neighbours in India.

As to what I say about my faith: if there was no reasonable way to verify what I say from original sources, I would be making a complete fool of myself and my Church wouldn't I? After all I blog under my real name. Details of the communion of my church with Rome can be looked up through resources made available by the Vatican, and the details of the church itself, its history, its Syrian liturgy etc, in Kerala from the websites run by the dioceses in Kerala.

Victoria, you wrote, "There was a Sikh community I interacted with regularly in S.Cal.
They were ALL immigrants, from India if I recall correctly. And lifelong practicing Sikhs.
They were lovely people.
Would it had been better if my information was from American born converts? There were a few of them too.
Why the emphasis on their immigrant status?
You're an immigrant from India to Australia, should people doubt the authenticity of your version of your practice of faith?
Considering the conflict of interest between Christians and Sikhs competing for the souls of non-Brahmins- there is a possibility that you kids were taught one version, while other kids were taught another."

Reason why I emphasized the immigrant status of the person you got your information from: they are removed from the original source of their religion and from what I know about practice of religion in India, most people (I do not say all), including Christians (even if they attend Church regularly), are cultural believers who follow rituals and celebrations but do not engage in learning about their faith.

As to what I say about my faith, if there was no reasonable way to verify what I say, I

Hey Soja- It was the same source I provided that you did- sikhiwiki-
can I believe it now?

Victoria, it is not for me to decide the authenticity of what a Sikh immigrant to the US told you about Sikhism and Guru Nanak. There is no way for you to verify where the immigrant got his/her information from.

There was a Sikh community I interacted with regularly in S.Cal.
They were ALL immigrants, from India if I recall correctly. And lifelong practicing Sikhs.
They were lovely people.
Would it had been better if my information was from Amrican born converts? There were a few of them too.
Why the emphasis on their immigrant status?
You're an immigrant from India to Australia, should people doubt the authenticity of your version of your practice of faith?
Considering the conflict of interest between Christians and Sikhs competing for the souls of non-Brahmins- there is a possibilty that you kids were taught one version, while other kids were taught another.

Uh oh- childhood trauma alert- (Prof Singh)
"He could not believe that his Muslim neighbors and friends would so quickly put asunder the ties that bound"
There goes that muslim betrayal again!
There are alot of sikhs around my neighborhood.
Maybe I'll strike up a conversation with one soon. (I'm in NY)
Yes, I always look at websites with a wary eye-
I'm not an old hand at computers- more of a tactile book in my hand kind of girl.

Books and people. Computers are only for confirmation of real knowledge obtained in the real world as far as I'm concerned.

It's pretty likely that there is every version of Sikh here as anywhere. NY is pretty diverse.

I found this essay by Professor Singh about himself immensely interesting:

http://www.sikhiwiki.com/index.php/Dr._I.J._Singh

An overview of Sikhism according to one source of information (it would be educational to compare information from different sources) :

http://www.allaboutsikhs.com/introduction.html

Victoria, I do not take information from any website as infallible information, especially those that are not primary sources.

For instance, being a Syro-Malabar Catholic from Kerala myself, I am aware of the wrong information that is out there on the Internet about my church and its members. A website in Kerala hosted by the Churches themselves gives the best possible information. Not every Christian from Kerala is a Thomas Christian. Not every Catholic from Kerala is a member of the Syro-Malabar or Syro-Malankar Catholic Church. Not every Thomas Christian is a Catholic. There are Latin rite Roman Catholics who were converted fifteen centuries later by Francis Xavier, the co-founder of Jesuits. They are known as Latin Catholics in Kerala, as opposed to Catholics converted by Apostle Thomas, who are known as Syrian Catholics. Not every Syrian Catholic or Thomas Christian is of Nambudiri (Kerala Hindu Brahmin) convert origin, nor are Thomas Christians in Kerala Dalits or lower caste...and so on.

Victoria, you wrote: "The story about his death, is folklore, and I don't believe anyone actually knows. But it is one of the first stories I was told by Sikhs and i have no reason to believe they were misinformed about their own founder of their religion. Kabir is also a lovely poet-..."

Victoria, it is not for me to decide the authenticity of what a Sikh immigrant to the US told you about Sikhism and Guru Nanak. There is no way for you to verify where the immigrant got his/her information from. I can only speak for myself, as to why I have no reason to doubt the information imparted through the common curriculum of the national school I attended for eight years and passed out from.

Here another useful link giving information about Sikhism:

http://www.allaboutsikhs.com/sikh-gurus.html

Victoria, you wrote: "The story about his death, is folklore, and I don't believe anyone actually knows. But it is one of the first stories I was told by Sikhs and i have no reason to believe they were misinformed about their own founder of their religion. Kabir is also a lovely poet-..."

Victoria, it is not for me to decide the authenticity of what a Sikh immigrant to the US told you about Sikhism and Guru Nanak. I can only speak for myself as to why I have no reason to doubt the information imparted through the national school I attended for

Here another useful link giving information about Sikhism.

As in many other spiritual traditions, the "Word" is God. Our scripture - Guru Granth -- opens with an alphanumeric devised by the founder of the faith, Guru Nanak. "Ik Oankar" combines the first primal number "one" with "Oankar," a word that stands for Creator or Doer. Thus it postulates one God, -- not a partisan Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Hindu or Sikh God, but one that embraces all creation.

In Judaism, "the Word" is MOST EMPHATICALLY NOT God. I wonder, sir, is you recognize the irony of attributing partisanship to other religions and universality to your own. This claim is the locus classicus of "the sin of particularity."

Victoria, here two more links with information on Sikhism (only two links permitted per post on this forum):

http://www.srigurugranthsahib.org/

http://www.sikhismguide.org/sikh-belief.shtml

Kind of like the new chants I'm hearing of Anti-Americanism being levied.
How does one prove their americanism, and who deiceds what is a satisfactory answer.?

Well, yes, Astoria. But, it's like how a majority of victims of gaybashing aren't even actually gay, someone just thought they were... It means the whole thing is insane, cause it's not even based in the 'reality' the intolerant defend in places like this, see?

Naturally, I mean we lament the unconscienable behavior towards Muslims also. Which is still fervent and present.

And Muslims too, of course.

Well, Professor, do take some comfort: some of us know the difference, anyway. I think some of the recent behavior toward our Sikh communities here in America is just a sad example of how actually very blind, and universally-destuctive, intolerance is.

I have great love and respect for Guru Nanak and the Sikh faith Soja.
I would nevr deliberately misrepresent it.
The story about his death, is foloklore, and I don't believe anyone actually knows.
But it is one of the first stries I was told by Sikhs and i have no reason to believe they were misinformed about their own founder of their religion.
Kabir is also a lovely poet- but so was Guru Nanak-

Here is another of my most favorite stories.

"On his fourth great journey in life Guru Nanak dressed in the blue garb of a Muslim pilgrim traveled to the west and visited Mecca, Medina and Baghdad. Arriving at Mecca, Guru Nanak fell asleep with his feet pointing towards the holy Kabba. When the watchman on his night rounds noticed this he kicked the Guru, saying, "How dare you turn your feet towards the house of God". At this Guru Nanak woke up and said, "Good man, I am weary after a long journey. Kindly turn my feet in the direction where God is not."

The direction where God is not.

http://www.sikhs.org/guru1.htm

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Guru_Nanak

Today is Oct. 18, Sikhs worldwide will be celebrating the 300th anniversary of the installation of Guru Granth Sahib, Sikhism's living guru and central holy text.

Kabir was a contributor of Guru Grabth Sahib.
And a marvelous mystic poet.
I have spent many hours of my life immersed in his poetry. There is no confusion on the identites of the two.
Sometimes we are taught things in school when we are children that we later learn are not quite true.
This is a special day of remembrance for Sikhs.
I don't want to disrespect them by inserting any negativity.

I. J. SINGH

Thank you for your article and I would like to make some comments about it.

You wrote, "Thus it postulates one God, -- not a partisan Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Hindu or Sikh God, but one that embraces all creation."

I am a Catholic and I cherish my Catholic Faith and the "God" of Christianity is anything but a "partisan" God, even tho I can see how many would come to this conclusion by some of the things that some "Christians" seem to think and believe by what they say.

The "God" spoken of in the bible not only created all of creation but He embraced creation in such a way as to become One of Us in His creation.

You also wrote, "If I can see the oneness in the creator and creation, there is then absolutely no room for distinctions in race, caste, creed, gender, color or national origin.".

I look at it as God is apart from His creation in that He created absolutely everything except for Himself but that He became part of His creation when He became One of Us, also where it says, "Let Us make man in our Image and Likeness" that means exactly and simply what it says: "We are ALL made in His Image and Likeness, not some but ALL".

If you have noticed, I use the masculine pronoun and that can be misleading since God is not a male, a female nor an it even tho God-Incarnate was a Male but pronouns can come in handy to use.

Then you wrote, " Differences between "them" and "us" vanish.", this is exactly what the bible proclaims but from what some seem to think and say about the bible, some might never know.

Then you wrote, " And, then, as the Guru Granth says, "I see no stranger or enemy.", Jesus said something concerning this, that is rather intruiging, in that He said, "Love your enemies" which is to accept the reality that some will consider "others" their enemies but to take that extra step and Love them anyway.

You also wrote, "The idea is not a God who micromanages our existence.", The True, Living, Triune, Triumphant God that the bible speaks of does not "micromanage" either, as a matter of fact, He gave us free will, just as it says and it is up to us how we use that gift of free will.

The "God" of the bible tho is not some kind of non-caring, non-involved God but is One that is very interested in His creation and also One that cares for us, ALL OF US, more than some seem to even want Him to, in that He came up with a Plan for ALL to be with Him and He has even invited us to be active participants in His Plan.

You also wrote, "It gives me not cut-and-dried solutions as in a catechism or an easily-swallowed pill", even tho some seem to want to twist Christianity into a bunch of rules and regulations and dogma, it is not even close to being that, some seem to think that turning your life over to God is the end whereas it is just the beginning.

Then you wrote, "Faith, to some, is panacea; to others it is placebo. To me, it is embracing the uncertainty that is life, while knowing in the gut a visceral universal presence and oneness. ", I understand what you are saying here and it is true that for some it is an attempt to avoid life rather than a way to try and live their life.

Then you wrote, "This, then, becomes walking in the shadow of God, or a life in "hukam".", for me it is trying to walk with Jesus and be guided by the Holy Spirit.

Christianity, as opposed to what some present it to be, is not to hide from reality but to accept it and at least to try and live in a radically different way from some of our most basic instincts.

Sikhism, from what you have written, seems to be quite in line with living as Jesus taught except for the fact that God knew that not all would take responsibility for their actions and He came up with a Plan for All to be with Him.

As I have said previously, "God is a searcher of hearts and minds, not of religious affiliations or lack thereof" and "It is important what one does and why one does it and what one knows."

God does not look at the label that we put upon ourselves but He looks at us.

Have you ever thought that we are all God's gift to each other?

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Errata:

The Syro-Malabar Catholic Church is NOT a separate *denomination* from the Roman Catholic Church. There is even a Syro-Malabar Catholic cardinal in the Vatican. It merely follows a different rite, the Syrian rite. The Roman Catholic Church follows the Latin rite. There are only a little over 3 million Syro-Malabar Catholics. Most of them are in Kerala and those resident outside Kerala are all ethnic Keralites.

SJ,

Prof. Singh's blog isn't the issue. Your fear of discovery is.

Good luck to you, as well.

Farnaz, thank you for the book suggestion. Sorry, whatever topic the book might discuss is currently not in my area of interest. It can't be about Sikhism for sure, the topic of this essay. So I hope you understand it would not even be polite or fair to Professor Singh to consider entering into a discussion on a completely different topic.

Goodbye for now and good luck to you.

(which is Jewish Scripture exactly as it is even if Christians interpret it in the light of the life and teachings of Jesus)

No it isn't. It contains books the Tankh (Jewish "Scripture") does not. It also mistranslates the Hebrew and Aramaic. In English some of these mistranslations are funny. I'm sure you saw the posts about God "walking" in the Garden of Eden. Oh wait, it was Yahweh. Do you remember Y c + 2?

When you have read the Tanakh in Hebrew and Aramaic as we do, then you will see that your OT is quite different. If you want an acceptable translation in English, use the Steinsaltz.
AT least it's not mistranslated from the Greek.

As for the NonTestament, I've read it. More than once.

The Empire talks back.

Here is a book for you to read. Faith and Fratricide by Rosemary Ruether. When you have read it, I'd be delighted to discuss it with you, regardless of how much of it you agree with. In that way, we would at least understand one another's vocabulary. Right now, you don't understand mine.

Farnaz, on a final note, I have read the Old Testament (which is Jewish Scripture exactly as it is even if Christians interpret it in the light of the life and teachings of Jesus), the New Testament and the Quran. I'm not an expert on history of Christianity in Europe by a long shot, but I am sufficiently informed about the intersection of religion and politics in connection with it.

It should give you great consolation to know that the Vatican, i.e. the Roman Catholic Church is actively involved in and promoting interfaith dialogue. It started in the 1960s as a result of Vatican II.

Did I make clear the arrogance of expropriating another people's text, beliefs, claiming you have replaced them and then condemning that text? Telling the people whose text it is (Jews) what it means?

I'm referring to the Tankh, which, mistranslated first into Greek you re-donned the Old Testament.
Here's a news blast. That is a despicable imperialist gesture that inaugurated the racism of the last two thousand years.

I'm expropriated your NT, a factual distortion, a mess, and renaming it, just as you have done the Tankh. New name: NonTestament

And Farnaz, since this essay is about Sikhism, it is right not to convert it into a discussion comparing Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

Farnaz, anyone who claims Jesus didn't exist, would have a hard time explaining to Christians in Kerala, India, how Christianity, so foreign to Indian soil, has existed there since 52AD, and it is attributed to the missionary work of one of the twelve Apostles of Jesus, Thomas. Secular history shows that a trade route via the sea existed between Kerala and the Middle East well before the birth of Jesus; there was a small settlement of Jews in Kerala at the time Apostle Thomas is claimed to have arrived there.

Farnaz, that is to say my denomination is not directly connected to the political history of Europe and the role of the Roman Catholic Church in it, whether in the good or bad sense, since we are in communion only for the past four hundred years, and still retain autonomy.

I personally enjoy being part of the wider Roman Catholic Church, since I have lived in places with no access to my denomination from the age of about fifteen, and hence have only attended Roman Catholic Churches from that time.

Farnaz, the New Testament is not the Quran. If you took the time to read the NT you'd know that Jesus, the Christ was a Jew as were all His disciples. Jesus taught in the synagogues of His day. The New Testament refers to the Old Testament so often that it is impossible to understand the New Testament without referring to the Old Testament.

Btw, I'm a member of the Syro-Malabar Catholic Church, which came in communion with the Roman Catholic Church only four hundred years ago. My church retains autonomy in Kerala and follows a Syrian rite, in spite of being in communion with R

Did I make clear the arrogance of expropriating another people's text, beliefs, claiming you have replaced them and then condemning that text? Telling the people whose text it is (Jews) what it means?

We're simply returning the favor. There's no point in continuing this. It always ends the same way with you, SJ regardless of whom you chat with.

s_j_thaikattil

You've made my case by revealing your own ignorance.
You have no response to the substance of my post regarding the expropriated so-called Old Testament.
The Crusades, the ghettoizing of Jews, the slaughters of the centuries were all done by the Christians.

Any people who believe that the Lord sent his only begotten son to earth to be tortured to death and then tortures most of the world with a special interest in Jews should not be lecturing anyone.

Farnaz, you really should read the New Testament sometime. Your ignorance about it is appalling. What Christians may or may not have done for political reasons is a different matter.

They, too rooted in Old Testament rules, do not follow the teachings of Jesus, who gave us, not really so many rules, but a format of compassion and moral behavior on which we can try to live day-to-day.

Surprising, Arminius. This is a bigoted and ill-informed statement.

I don't know. I'm pretty rooted in Tanakh rules. Seems like the C-rooted have killed upwards of 100,000,000 people. We're not counting permanent maimings, etc. There is no compassion in believe in me or go to hell. There is no justice in as long as you accept me at some point in your life you'll be saved regardless of what you have done.

The brutality of the "NT," its replacement ideology, guides its adherents. It is they who attack Sikhs, bomb Afghanistan, Iraq, blackout news,etc., etc., etc. Armed with self-righteousness, selfishness, and cannibalism, and the doctrine of self-forgiveness, they expropriated the Tanakh and project their NT murderous tendencies onto it.

Too bad for the C-people, the Sikhs and all the other victims of the Christians.

Professor Singh,

This Christian thanks you for your beautiful words.

Especially this:
"Guru Granth does not provide me a sin quotient for every infraction committed or contemplated. It gives me not cut-and-dried solutions as in a catechism or an easily-swallowed pill, but an ethical framework rooted in spiritual values within which to navigate my way. This places all responsibility and accountability squarely on the follower."

It is a shameful thing to me that too many Christians would disagree with this. They, too rooted in Old Testament rules, do not follow the teachings of Jesus, who gave us, not really so many rules, but a format of compassion and moral behavior on which we can try to live day-to-day.

As our St Paul said, "For now, we see through a glass darkly". We cannot know the mind of God. Therefore, we must take responsibility for our actions, and, as Jesus taught, realize that all people are God's children, and we must love them.

Thank you, Professor Singh.

Dear Professor Singh, thank you for drawing attention to Sikhism, a religion founded in India. Particularly in these troubled times, violence in the name of religion, it is essential to remind ourselves that India is home to three major religions besides Hinduism - Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism.

Having been drilled about unity in diversity in school, it is natural for me to feel great respect for Sikhism and appreciate its great religious ideals. My school even had a holiday for the birthday of Guru Nanak. At the Christian Ashram of Dom Bede Griffiths OSB, interfaith midday readings included the Guru Granth Sahib, as also the Quran.

Victoria, you are mistaking Kabir, the Indian mystic, (who had Hindu Brahmin parents but was raised by a Muslim family)for Guru Nanak, the founder of Sikhism.

Some of Kabir's verses, (Dohe-eys) are found in the Guru Granth Sahib but Kabir was not a Sikh. "Kabir did not classify himself as Hindu or Muslim, Sufi or Bhakta. The legends surrounding his lifetime attest to his strong aversion to established religions."

The folklore, about Kabir's body turning into flowers, (when Hindus claimed him as one of their own and wanted to cremate him and Muslims claimed him equally as their own and wanted to bury him,) you mentioned is about Kabir, NOT Guru Nanak. How do I know for certain? I learned it in school.

Kabir was born in 1398, Guru Nanak, the founder of Sikhism was born in 1469. It would seem that they were contemporaries.

The Sikh Scripture, Guru Granth Sahib however was not compiled until 1602 and includes some of the mystic poetry of Kabir. Kabir is not revered as a Sikh guru. He is

Dr Singh is spot on when he says that being a good Sikh and a good American are not mutually exclusive. Sikhs have learnt the lesson of assimilation well from Guru Nanak, the founder of the Faith. Legend has it that on a trip to Multan (in present day Pakistan and a great religious center then) he was offered a cup of milk filled to the brim. The gesture was actually a cryptic message, implying that there was no room for another holy man (ideology) in an already crowded field. The Guru dissolved a few hollow lumps of sugar in the milk and returned it with a flower petal floating on top. The Guru's response was equally symbolic but highly illustrative of how Sikhs might live in a society. Sikhs assimilate (like the sugar bring a sweet flavor) but remain distinct (like the petal). Identity and assimilation is indeed possible.

Mr. Singh- re: your statement-
"despite the fact Sikhs have nothing to do with Islam or with bin Laden. It gets us the most unwelcome attention."

Maybe Sikhs today have nothing to do with Islam, but Guru Nanak, the ounder of Sikhism- did.

Guru Nanak used religious terminologies of Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism, and Jainism to express his thoughts but the meaning of these terms is not necessarily the same as in the parent religion. So when a Muslim or a Hindu finds reference to his religion, he or she interprets Guru Nanak’s teaching in light of his or her religion. And this is the major cause of misinterpretation and sometimes distortion of Nanakian philosophy (Gurmat).

After three days Guru Nanak appeared at the same spot from where he had disappeared. He was no longer the same person he had been, there was a divine light in his eyes and his face was resplendent. He remained in a trance and said nothing. He gave up his job and distributed all of his belongings to the poor. When he finally broke his silence he uttered "There is no Hindu, no Muslim". Daulat Khan asked what he meant when he said to Guru Nanak, "Perhaps the Hindus were no longer Hindus but the Muslims remain devout to their faith." Guru Nanak replied,

"Let God's grace be the mosque, and devotion the prayer mat. Let the Quran be the good conduct. Let modesty be compassion, good manners fasting, you should be a Muslim the like of this. Let good deeds be your Kaaba and truth be your mentor. Your Kalma be your creed and prayer, God would then vindicate your honour." (Majh)

Death of Guru Nanak

On 22 September of the year 1539, aged 70, Guru Nanak met with his demise, after he had requested his disciples to sing the Sohila .

Once when Guru Nanak was asked which religion, Hinduism or Islam was the true path to God, Guru Nanak replied that the true way to attain God was to worship Him who is eternal and contained in the whole Universe.

As he died, he took his body with him to the heavens, and never seen again.

Folklore
The legend says that upon the death of Guru Nanak, his Hindu followers wanted to cremate the remains while the Muslim followers wanted to bury the body following Islamic tradition. However on raising the cloth under which the Great Guru's body lay, some fresh flowers were found which were shared between his followers. The Hindus cremated their flowers whereas the Muslims buried theirs.

Let me add, that the overwhelming majority of Muslims on the planet, also, have nothing to do with Bin Laden.
Peace.