Palin Should Address Disturbing Religious Connections
Forty-eight years ago this week, John F. Kennedy appeared before the Houston Ministerial Association and a national television audience to address widespread concerns that his Catholic religion might harmfully influence the way he would preside over the United States if he won the election.
It is time for Republican Party vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin -- about whose religious beliefs there are questions in many ways far more serious than those about Kennedy's Catholicism in 1960 -- to allow herself to be questioned in a similar open forum.
There is a growing body of evidence that suggests Palin is more of a religious extremist than any major party nominee for national office in memory.
"We're not going to get into discussing her religion," Maria Comella, a spokeswoman for the McCain-Palin campaign, told the New York Times. A look at the Alaska governor's religious views and influences makes clear why the Republican campaign doesn't want to "get into discussing her religion"--and why the American people must insist that those views are completely scrutinized.
"The churches that Sarah has attended all believe in a literal translation of the Bible," Janet Kinkaid of Wasilla, who has known Palin for 15 years, told the Times.
One consequence of Palin's literalism is that she is a Creationist. As such, she discounts science, a point that is further made by her insistence that humans do not influence climate change. (John McCain is on record as someone who accepts evolution and the role of humans in global warming.)
In recent years, Palin has attended several Pentecostal churches. which emphasize the Second Coming of Christ, especially the so-called Rapture, when Christ returns to earth and the faithful endure tribulations before they are taken up to heaven with Christ.
When Gov. Palin is in the state capital, she attends the Juneau Christian Center. Its senior pastor, Mike Rose, says, "I've been convinced for some time. We are living in the last days. These are incredible times to live in." This literalist is literally right on the last point.
The church that seems to have had the greatest influence on the would-be vice president and could-be president is the Wasilla Assembly of God Church, where Palin was baptized and attended from the time she was 12 until 2002. She still maintains close ties with the church.
The church's senior pastor, Ed Kalnins, has said a number of things in his sermons that give pause. In 2004, he made it clear he was referring to Sen. John Kerry when he said, "If you vote for this particular person, I question your salvation. I'm sorry." Following Hurricane Katrina in 2005, Kalnins said that those who criticized President Bush will go to hell. "I hate criticisms towards the President, because it's like criticisms towards the pastor--it's almost like, it's not going to get you anywhere, you know, except for hell. That's what it'll get you."
Pastor Kalnins classified the 9/11 attacks and the later war in Iraq as part of a larger conflict "contending for your faith," and Palin has indicated that she sees the "War on Terror" as a holy war.
This past June, Palin returned to visit the church. She told the congregation, "God's will has to be done. . . . [Government activity] doesn't do any good if the people's heart isn't right with God. . . . We can work together to make sure that God's will be done."
"What comes from this church has great destiny," she proclaimed. "And that spirit of revelation, also including a spirit of prophecy--that God's gonna tell you what's goin' on--and what is going to go on. . . . There's been so many words, Ed, over the state of Alaska," she said to the pastor. "We being the head, not the tail . . . I see things now in the words it seems like that's comin' to fruition--that things are percolating, things are comin' along and praying for an outpouring of the Spirit for that revival to be here in Alaska."
Palin spoke of the power of a former pastor's prayer over her: "'Lord, make a way and let her do this next step.' And that's exactly what happened. So, again, very, very powerful coming from this church."
"This is awesome!" Kalnins exclaimed in response. "Makin' a prophetic declaration and it unfolds, ya know, the Kingdom of God--and so there is a prophetic call."
It gets worse.
"There are some things that God wants to tap into [in Alaska] to be a refuge for the lower forty-eight," Kalnins continued with Palins by his side nodding in apparent agreement, "and I believe Alaska is one of the refuge states, come on you guys, in the last days, and hundreds and thousands of people are going to come to the state to seek refuge and the church has to be ready to minister to them. Amen!" He said it is to prepare for this Last Days influx of people that Gov. Palin's infrastructure improvements need to be made.
As On Faith panelist Susan Brooks Thistlethwaite points out, Palin's beliefs in the End Times or Last Days, or how much she agrees with what her pastors have said, matter to us now because they could have an impact on her views of foreign and domestic policies.
Concerns also have been raised about Palin's connection to the Alaska Independence Party, and its connections to a controversial Christian nationalist movement known as Reconstructionism.
Palin's husband, Todd, was a registered member of the party for seven years. Sarah Palin herself, while she apparently never officially registered as a member, was considered by the party to be a member for a time in the mid-1990s, and, as governor this year, she recorded a welcome to the party's convention, in which she said, "I share your party's vision."
Videos from the 2008 AIP meeting showing the organization's vice chairman, Dexter Carter, praising Sarah Palin's service as a party member and saying that the party's members must "infiltrate" the major parties, have been taken down since her selection as John McCain's running mate.
The party's founder, Joe Vogler, has said (as the party still proudly quotes on its website) that he is "not an American" and "I've got no use for America or her damned institutions." Vogler also renounced allegiance to the United States and "their damned flag."
The Alaskan Independence Party is the state affiliate of the Constitution Party. That party has long been the political base of leading figures in the extreme "Christian" nationalist movements called Reconstructionism and Dominionism, including Reconstructionism's late founder, R. J. Rushdoony. Fancying himself a latter-day John Calvin, Rushdoony sought to institute a nationwide or worldwide theocracy patterned after Calvin's theocracy in Geneva.
These movements contend that "Bible Law" must be instituted to prepare for the Second Coming. Rushdoony said democracy is a heresy. He advocated the death penalty, preferably by stoning, for a host of offenders, including homosexuals, females guilty of "unchastity before marriage," rapists (but, in keeping with the laws of Deuteronomy, only if their victims were married women or "betrothed virgins"), those who perform or have abortions, witches, those who disrespect their parents, Sabbath breakers, and blasphemers.
How much of this nonsense does Sarah Palin believe? Who knows? But given these connections, she should tell us.
Historian Robert S. McElvaine is Elizabeth Chisholm Professor of Arts & Letters at Millsaps College. His latest book is Grand Theft Jesus: The Hijacking of Religion in America (Crown).
By Robert S. McElvaine |
September 9, 2008; 12:11 AM ET
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Posted by: Jim Roach | September 16, 2008 4:57 PM
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THE single question I'd like to see posed to Sarah Palin is;
What does the Constitution mean to you?
Here's why;
1. Obama, Biden and McCain could all answer that question easily.
2. The question is both factual and philosophical. It would demonstrate whether she has a) read it b) understood/thought about it.
3. Potentially disqualifying if she messes it up. Very difficult to wriggle out of a bad answer, since there is NO excuse for an elected official being ignorant of the Constitution.
4. May give a clearer picture on what her philosophy of government actually is (if she has one).
Posted by: Greg | September 15, 2008 3:35 PM
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Palin is a religious wacko, and would be, as vice president, a real danger to our country. John McCain is extreamly irresponsible and lacking in judgement for having nominated her.
Posted by: Alan | September 14, 2008 2:33 PM
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We are very concerned about this situation and created a petition to outlaw doomsday-fanatics and endtime-extremists in our society . Please take a look at our petition at apocalypse-no.net/en . Thank You for all you do , from a concerned mother of 2!!
Posted by: Catharina | September 14, 2008 10:35 AM
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To Robert S. McElvaine,
So much for grand flourish of records in University letters behind a name meaning anything towards integrity.
You make an assertion without providing actual links and contextual evidence. The entire prayer was for guidance to do God's will.
Governor Palin NEVER said the Iraq War was a Holy War. This is an outright lie and more misleading propaganda put out by the left and people like DailyKos. You are now parroting far left wing smear sites funded by George Soros; Obama's main donor and billionaire crook. A convicted criminal in France.
This shows your credentials are useless and your opinion and calls for review to be nothing but another liberal biased shot against Palin.
She simply made a prayer that our leaders do God's will, that it was in God's plan. That is what every single Christian does thru history.
Have you not read JFK's speeches? According to your worried assertions, you would crucify JFK because he was much more forward in stating that God Has a Plan for America.
How dare that JFK say that! He should never have been President according to the liberal orthodoxy today.
And while you throw off any semblence of impartial witness to Palin, you do not question why the Democrat Presidential Candidate attended a church of Racism, Vile Hatred, Anti-American, Black Liberation Theology for 22 years?
Jeremiah Wright said, "no, no, no, not God Bless America, God D____ America!" This was just after 9/11, yet Obama stated he never heard such words?
Here is an assertion and opinion. I think Obama is a liar. No one sits in a church that long and not know his preacher is a radical, a hater, a Nation of Islam supporter, Hamas supporter, Libyan supporter, an Anti-Semite and a vicious racist against whites only and hates America.
You betray your college and the people that read your fluff hit piece. It is absurd to continue to see such false smears against Palin by shallow liberals like you who pretend to be defenders of truth, while giving Obama a free ride.
You represent the worst of American opinion today from MSNBC to WaPo and so many other liberal media outlets. You strain at gnats in Palin's prayer, but overlook the giant log in the fake religion of Obama. A Black Values Only Religion tha for 22 years preached hatred of whites by his so-called "spiritual mentor."
People like you destroy any real sense of God's will, his instructions for life, or his guidance to us as Christians.
Paul warned about false teachers from the beginning of the "history" of the church. You are evidence that his warnings should be well heeded.
God forbid tha Palin want a revival in Alaska. God forbid that all the great movements in church history in America by evangelicals of Methodist, Baptist, etc., were far, far more advanced in opinion of God's will for America and the calls for revival.
According to your logic and assertions, no word by some of America's greatest spirtual leaders should ever be allowed today.
How pathetic have the liberals become? The Methodist Church would never be started today with your false logic. You would condemn all leaders like Wesley or even Abraham Lincoln. How dare Abraham Lincoln know God's will to free slaves? Or that the Republican Party was started for the Abolition of Slavery? Did Christ ever call for slaves to be set free by their masters in his walk on this planet?
Now, do you see your utter hypocrisy?
It would do well if you would ask more discerning questions about the real danger to this nation, that of a fake politician that sit for 22 years in a pit of vile anti-Christian false teachings. A politician that could not vote to save life of a livinb baby outside the womb, or stop partial-birth abortion and who would weaken our nation during a time of war. A politician that coldly calculated his support by Nation of Islam and in fact, the leader Farrakhan is on record as calling Obama - Messiah.
You are worried about Palin? But overlook the rantings of hatred, racism, anti-semitism and radicals that "annoint" Obama as the greatest hope in the world?
This shows your discernment to be a failure or you bias to blind you. People need to know the truth about Obama. When you put all the crazed lunatics around him in question and quote their crazed rants, then you will be impartial.
Michael
Posted by: Michael | September 13, 2008 8:09 PM
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This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;
Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
Posted by: harold | September 13, 2008 2:24 PM
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And the woman bare a son, and called his name Samson: and the child grew, and the Lord blessed him.
And the Spirit of the Lord began to move him at times in the camp of Dan between Zorah and Eshtaol.
“And the woman bare a son”
“called his name Samson”
“the child grew”
“and the Lord blessed him.”
“And the Spirit of the Lord began to move him at times in the camp of Dan”
And Samson went down to Timnath, and saw a woman in Timnath of the daughters of the Philistines.
And he came up, and told his father and his mother, and said, I have seen a woman in Timnath of the daughters of the Philistines: now therefore get her for me to wife.
Then his father and his mother said unto him, Is there never a woman among the daughters of thy brethren, or among all my people, that thou goest to take a wife of the uncircumcised Philistines? And Samson said unto his father, Get her for me; for she pleaseth me well.
But his father and his mother knew not that it was of the Lord, that he sought an occasion against the Philistines: for at that time the Philistines had dominion over Israel.
Then went Samson down, and his father and his mother, to Timnath, and came to the vineyards of Timnath: and, behold, a young lion roared against him.
And the Spirit of the Lord came mightily upon him, and he rent him as he would have rent a kid, and he had nothing in his hand: but he told not his father or his mother what he had done.
And he went down, and talked with the woman; and she pleased Samson well.
“Samson went down to Timnath”
“saw a woman in Timnath of the daughters of the Philistines.”
“I have seen a woman in Timnath of the daughters of the Philistines”
“now therefore get her for me to wife.”
” And Samson said unto his father”
“Get her for me; for she pleaseth me well.”
“behold, a young lion roared against him.”
Then the Philistines said, Who hath done this? And they answered, Samson, the son in law of the Timnite, because he had taken his wife, and given her to his companion. And the Philistines came up, and burnt her and her father with fire.
“Samson, the son in law of the Timnite”
“because he had taken his wife”
“And the Philistines came up”
“burnt her and her father with fire.”
And when he came unto Lehi, the Philistines shouted against him: and the Spirit of the Lord came mightily upon him, and the cords that were upon his arms became as flax that was burnt with fire, and his bands loosed from off his hands.
And he found a new jawbone of an ass, and put forth his hand, and took it, and slew a thousand men therewith.
And Samson said, With the jawbone of an ass, heaps upon heaps, with the jaw of an ass have I slain a thousand men.
“the Spirit of the Lord came mightily upon him”
“the cords that were upon his arms became as flax that was burnt with fire”
“his bands loosed from off his hands”
“he found a new jawbone of an ass”
“put forth his hand, and took it,”
“and slew a thousand men therewith”
“with the jaw of an ass have I slain a thousand men.”
Then the Lords of the Philistines gathered them together for to offer a great sacrifice unto Dagon their god, and to rejoice: for they said, Our god hath delivered Samson our enemy into our hand.
And when the people saw him, they praised their god: for they said, Our god hath delivered into our hands our enemy, and the destroyer of our country, which slew many of us.
And it came to pass, when their hearts were merry, that they said, Call for Samson, that he may make us sport. And they called for Samson out of the prison house; and he made them sport: and they set him between the pillars.
And Samson said unto the lad that held him by the hand, Suffer me that I may feel the pillars whereupon the house standeth, that I may lean upon them.
Now the house was full of men and women; and all the Lords of the Philistines were there; and there were upon the roof about three thousand men and women, that beheld while Samson made sport.
And Samson called unto the Lord, and said, O Lord God, remember me, I pray thee, and strengthen me, I pray thee, only this once, O God, that I may be at once avenged of the Philistines for my two eyes.
And Samson took hold of the two middle pillars upon which the house stood, and on which it was borne up, of the one with his right hand, and of the other with his left.
And Samson said, Let me die with the Philistines. And he bowed himself with all his might; and the house fell upon the lords, and upon all the people that were therein. So the dead which he slew at his death were more than they which he slew in his life.
Then his brethren and all the house of his father came down, and took him, and brought him up, and buried him between Zorah and Eshtaol in the buryingplace of Manoah his father. And he judged Israel twenty years.
“the Lords of the Philistines gathered them together for to offer a great sacrifice unto Dagon their god”
“Our god hath delivered Samson our enemy into our hand.”
“And when the people saw him, they praised their god”
“Our god hath delivered into our hands our enemy, and the destroyer of our country, which slew many of us.”
“when their hearts were merry”
“Call for Samson, that he may make us sport”
“they called for Samson out of the prison house”
“he made them sport: and they set him between the pillars.”
“Now the house was full of men and women”
“all the Lords of the Philistines were there”
“there were upon the roof about three thousand men and women”
“Samson called unto the Lord, and said”
“O Lord God, remember me”
“I pray thee, and strengthen me”
“I pray thee, only this once”
“O God, that I may be at once avenged of the Philistines for my two eyes.”
“Samson said, Let me die with the Philistines”
“The Son of man is lord of the Sabbath”
“the house fell upon the lords, and upon all the people that were therein”
“So the dead which he slew at his death were more than they which he slew in his life.”
Dan shall judge his people, as one of the tribes of Israel.
Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.
“Dan shall judge his people”
“as one of the tribes of Israel”
“Dan shall be a serpent by the way”
And I, behold, I have given with him Aholiab, the son of Ahisamach, of the tribe of Dan: and in the hearts of all that are wise hearted I have put wisdom, that they may make all that I have commanded thee;
The tabernacle of the congregation, and the ark of the testimony, and the mercy seat that is thereupon, and all the furniture of the tabernacle,
“I have given with him Aholiab, the son of Ahisamach, of the tribe of Dan”
“in the hearts of all that are wise hearted I have put wisdom”
“The tabernacle of the congregation, and the ark of the testimony”
”the mercy seat that is thereupon, and all the furniture of the tabernacle”
These are the sons of Dan after their families: of Shuham, the family of the Shuhamites. These are the families of Dan after their families.
All the families of the Shuhamites, according to those that were numbered of them, were threescore and four thousand and four hundred.
“These are the sons of Dan after their families”
“of Shuham, the family of the Shuhamites”
“All the families of the Shuhamites, according to those that were numbered of them”
Now king David was old and stricken in years; and they covered him with clothes, but he gat no heat.
Wherefore his servants said unto him, Let there be sought for my lord the king a young virgin: and let her stand before the king, and let her cherish him, and let her lie in thy bosom, that my lord the king may get heat.
So they sought for a fair damsel throughout all the coasts of Israel, and found Abishag a Shunammite, and brought her to the king.
And the damsel was very fair, and cherished the king, and ministered to him: but the king knew her not.
“Now king David was old and stricken in years”
“and they covered him with clothes”
“but he gat no heat.”
“Wherefore his servants said unto him”
“Let there be sought for my lord the king a young virgin”
“that my lord the king may get heat”
“let her stand before the king, and let her cherish him”
“let her lie in thy bosom, that my lord the king may get heat.”
“found Abishag a Shunammite, and brought her to the king.”
“And the damsel was very fair, and cherished the king, and ministered to him”
“but the king knew her not.”
Posted by: harold | September 13, 2008 2:20 PM
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Paraphrasing from the New Testament, Benedict decried "insatiable greed" and said "the love of money is the root of all evil."
"Have not money, the thirst for possessions, for power and even knowledge, diverted man from his true destiny?" the pope asked.
“THIS IS MY COVENANT”
“BETWEEN ME AND YOU AND THY SEED AFTER THEE”
“IT SHALL BE A TOKEN OF THE COVENANT BETWIXT ME AND YOU.”
“BOUGHT WITH MONEY OF ANY STRANGER, WHICH IS NOT OF THY SEED.”
“AND LOVETH THE STRANGER”
“IN GIVING HIM FOOD AND RAIMENT.”
“FOR THE LOVE OF MONEY IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL”
“BECAUSE THAT FOR HIS NAME'S SAKE THEY WENT FORTH”
“TAKING NOTHING OF THE GENTILES”
PREPARE YE THE WAY OF THE LORD, MAKE HIS PATHS STRAIGHT
ARISE, AND GO INTO THE STREET WHICH IS CALLED STRAIGHT
AND INQUIRE IN THE HOUSE OF JUDAS
THAT WHICH IS CROOKED CANNOT BE MADE STRAIGHT
THAT WHICH IS WANTING CANNOT BE NUMBERED
In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
“In those days came John the Baptist”
“And saying, Repent ye”
“for the kingdom of heaven is at hand”
“Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight”
That which is crooked cannot be made straight: and that which is wanting cannot be numbered.
I communed with mine own heart, saying, Lo, I am come to great estate, and have gotten more wisdom than all they that have been before me in Jerusalem: yea, my heart had great experience of wisdom and knowledge.
And I gave my heart to know wisdom, and to know madness and folly: I perceived that this also is vexation of spirit.
For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.
“That which is crooked cannot be made straight”
“that which is wanting cannot be numbered.”
And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and inquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,
“And the Lord said unto him”
“That which is crooked cannot be made straight”
“that which is wanting cannot be numbered.”
“Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight”
“and inquire in the house of Judas”
“for one called Saul, of Tarsus”
“for, behold, he prayeth”
Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
“love unto all the saints”
“Cease not to give thanks for you”
“making mention of you in my prayers”
“This is my covenant”
“between me and you and thy seed after thee”
“it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.”
“bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.”
“and loveth the stranger”
“in giving him food and raiment.”
“For the love of money is the root of all evil”
“Because that for his name's sake they went forth”
“taking nothing of the Gentiles”
This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.
He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.
“This is my covenant”
“between me and you and thy seed after thee”
“Every man child among you shall be circumcised”
“And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin”
“it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.”
“he that is born in the house”
“or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.”
“my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant”
“the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised”
“that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.”
Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the Lord's thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is.
Only the Lord had a delight in thy fathers to love them, and he chose their seed after them, even you above all people, as it is this day.
Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.
For the Lord your God is God of Gods, and Lord of Lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:
He doth execute the judgment of the fatherless and widow, and loveth the stranger, in giving him food and raiment.
Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.
Thou shalt fear the Lord thy God; him shalt thou serve, and to him shalt thou cleave, and swear by his name.
He is thy praise, and he is thy God, that hath done for thee these great and terrible things, which thine eyes have seen.
Thy fathers went down into Egypt with threescore and ten persons; and now the Lord thy God hath made thee as the stars of heaven for multitude.
“the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the Lord's thy God”
“the earth also, with all that therein is.”
“Only the Lord had a delight in thy fathers to love them”
“he chose their seed after them, even you above all people, as it is this day.”
“Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked”
“For the Lord your God is God of Gods”
“Lord of Lords”
“For the Lord your God is God of Gods”
And he took and sent messes unto them from before him: but Benjamin's mess was five times so much as any of theirs. And they drank, and were merry with him
“a great God”
“a mighty”
“and a terrible”
“which regardeth not persons”
“nor taketh reward”
“Lord of Lords”
So now it was not you that sent me hither, but God: and he hath made me a father to Pharaoh, and lord of all his house, and a ruler throughout all the land of Egypt.
” loveth the stranger, in giving him food and raiment.”
“Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt”
“Thou shalt fear the Lord thy God”
” him shalt thou serve”
” and to him shalt thou cleave”
“and swear by his name”
He doth execute the judgment of the fatherless and widow, and loveth the stranger, in giving him food and raiment.
Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.
“He doth execute the judgment of the fatherless and widow”
“and loveth the stranger”
“in giving him food and raiment.”
“Love ye therefore the stranger”
“for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt”
For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
“And having food and raiment let us be therewith content”
“But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare”
“into many foolish and hurtful lusts”
“which drown men in destruction and perdition”
“For the love of money is the root of all evil”
“which while some coveted after”
“they have erred from the faith”
“pierced themselves through with many sorrows”
“O man of God”
“flee these things”
“follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.”
Which have borne witness of thy charity before the church: whom if thou bring forward on their journey after a godly sort, thou shalt do well:
Because that for his name's sake they went forth, taking nothing of the Gentiles.
We therefore ought to receive such, that we might be fellowhelpers to the truth.
“Which have borne witness of thy charity before the church”
“Because that for his name's sake they went forth”
“taking nothing of the Gentiles”
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
“And hereby we do know that we know him”
“if we keep his commandments”
“He that saith, I know him”
“keepeth not his commandments”
“is a liar, and the truth is not in him.”
“But whoso keepeth his word”
“in him verily is the love of God perfected”
“hereby know we that we are in him.”
Posted by: harold | September 13, 2008 1:21 PM
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It seems to me all have not seen that Saul is in the House of Judas,
And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and inquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,
Posted by: harold | September 12, 2008 7:27 PM
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It's about time so-called mainstream religious figures start not only questioning but directly confronting these extremists.
I can't believe how weak the response to this stuff has been from main stream churches.
Fascism is coming wrapped in that flag and carrying a bible, and Christians just stand back and say..."well, they say they're Christians like us, so it's A-OK with us"....
Honest to goodness, folks. That is pathetic.
ORGANIZED religion is the BANE of civilization.
Prove me wrong after this example put out to the world.
Posted by: mommadona | September 12, 2008 5:36 PM
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These are the words of those with the so-called Christian belief hold deer to their heart:
“Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.”
Here is the house they are in, THE HOUSE OF SIMON THE LEPER. Here is what the law is for removing the plague upon that house.
“Then shall the priest command to take for him that is to be cleansed two birds alive and clean, and cedar wood, and scarlet, and hyssop:
And the priest shall command that one of the birds be killed in an earthen vessel over running water:”
“And he shall slay the lamb in the place where he shall kill the sin offering and the burnt offering, in the holy place: for as the sin offering is the priest's, so is the trespass offering: it is most holy:”
You can clearly see all that is left is the serpent in this House of Simon the Leper. “And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself”
And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
This shall be the law of the leper in the day of his cleansing: He shall be brought unto the priest:
And the priest shall go forth out of the camp; and the priest shall look, and, behold, if the plague of leprosy be healed in the leper;
Then shall the priest command to take for him that is to be cleansed two birds alive and clean, and cedar wood, and scarlet, and hyssop:
And the priest shall command that one of the birds be killed in an earthen vessel over running water:
As for the living bird, he shall take it, and the cedar wood, and the scarlet, and the hyssop, and shall dip them and the living bird in the blood of the bird that was killed over the running water:
And he shall sprinkle upon him that is to be cleansed from the leprosy seven times, and shall pronounce him clean, and shall let the living bird loose into the open field.
And he that is to be cleansed shall wash his clothes, and shave off all his hair, and wash himself in water, that he may be clean: and after that he shall come into the camp, and shall tarry abroad out of his tent seven days.
But it shall be on the seventh day, that he shall shave all his hair off his head and his beard and his eyebrows, even all his hair he shall shave off: and he shall wash his clothes, also he shall wash his flesh in water, and he shall be clean.
And on the eighth day he shall take two he lambs without blemish, and one ewe lamb of the first year without blemish, and three tenth deals of fine flour for a meat offering, mingled with oil, and one log of oil.
And the priest that maketh him clean shall present the man that is to be made clean, and those things, before the Lord, at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation:
And the priest shall take one he lamb, and offer him for a trespass offering, and the log of oil, and wave them for a wave offering before the Lord:
And he shall slay the lamb in the place where he shall kill the sin offering and the burnt offering, in the holy place: for as the sin offering is the priest's, so is the trespass offering: it is most holy:
And the priest shall take some of the blood of the trespass offering, and the priest shall put it upon the tip of the right ear of him that is to be cleansed, and upon the thumb of his right hand, and upon the great toe of his right foot:
And the priest shall take some of the log of oil, and pour it into the palm of his own left hand:
And the priest shall dip his right finger in the oil that is in his left hand, and shall sprinkle of the oil with his finger seven times before the Lord:
And of the rest of the oil that is in his hand shall the priest put upon the tip of the right ear of him that is to be cleansed, and upon the thumb of his right hand, and upon the great toe of his right foot, upon the blood of the trespass offering:
And the remnant of the oil that is in the priest's hand he shall pour upon the head of him that is to be cleansed: and the priest shall make an atonement for him before the Lord.
And the priest shall offer the sin offering, and make an atonement for him that is to be cleansed from his uncleanness; and afterward he shall kill the burnt offering:
And the priest shall offer the burnt offering and the meat offering upon the altar: and the priest shall make an atonement for him, and he shall be clean.
And if there be in the bald head, or bald forehead, a white reddish sore; it is a leprosy sprung up in his bald head, or his bald forehead.
Then the priest shall look upon it: and, behold, if the rising of the sore be white reddish in his bald head, or in his bald forehead, as the leprosy appeareth in the skin of the flesh;
He is a leprous man, he is unclean: the priest shall pronounce him utterly unclean; his plague is in his head.
And the leper in whom the plague is, his clothes shall be rent, and his head bare, and he shall put a covering upon his upper lip, and shall cry, Unclean, unclean.
All the days wherein the plague shall be in him he shall be defiled; he is unclean: he shall dwell alone; without the camp shall his habitation be.
The garment also that the plague of leprosy is in, whether it be a woollen garment, or a linen garment;
Whether it be in the warp, or woof; of linen, or of woollen; whether in a skin, or in any thing made of skin;
And if the plague be greenish or reddish in the garment, or in the skin, either in the warp, or in the woof, or in any thing of skin; it is a plague of leprosy, and shall be shewed unto the priest:
And the priest shall look upon the plague, and shut up it that hath the plague seven days:
And he shall look on the plague on the seventh day: if the plague be spread in the garment, either in the warp, or in the woof, or in a skin, or in any work that is made of skin; the plague is a fretting leprosy; it is unclean.
He shall therefore burn that garment, whether warp or woof, in woollen or in linen, or any thing of skin, wherein the plague is: for it is a fretting leprosy; it shall be burnt in the fire.
And if the priest shall look, and, behold, the plague be not spread in the garment, either in the warp, or in the woof, or in any thing of skin;
Then the priest shall command that they wash the thing wherein the plague is, and he shall shut it up seven days more:
And the priest shall look on the plague, after that it is washed: and, behold, if the plague have not changed his colour, and the plague be not spread; it is unclean; thou shalt burn it in the fire; it is fret inward, whether it be bare within or without.
And if the priest look, and, behold, the plague be somewhat dark after the washing of it; then he shall rend it out of the garment, or out of the skin, or out of the warp, or out of the woof:
And if it appear still in the garment, either in the warp, or in the woof, or in any thing of skin; it is a spreading plague: thou shalt burn that wherein the plague is with fire.
And the garment, either warp, or woof, or whatsoever thing of skin it be, which thou shalt wash, if the plague be departed from them, then it shall be washed the second time, and shall be clean.
This is the law of the plague of leprosy in a garment of woollen or linen, either in the warp, or woof, or any thing of skins, to pronounce it clean, or to pronounce it unclean.
Posted by: harold | September 12, 2008 11:44 AM
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THERE WAS NOTHING IN THE ARK SAVE THE TWO TABLES OF STONE
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
Therefore he said that he would destroy them, had not Moses his chosen stood before him in the breach, to turn away his wrath, lest he should destroy them.
Yea, they despised the pleasant land, they believed not his word:
But murmured in their tents, and hearkened not unto the voice of the Lord.
“had not Moses his chosen stood before him in the breach”
There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone, which Moses put there at Horeb, when the Lord made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt.
And it came to pass, when the priests were come out of the holy place, that the cloud filled the house of the Lord,
So that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud: for the glory of the Lord had filled the house of the Lord.
Then spake Solomon, The Lord said that he would dwell in the thick darkness.
“There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone”
“which Moses put there at Horeb”
“when the Lord made a covenant with the children of Israel”
“that the cloud filled the house of the Lord”
“for the glory of the Lord had filled the house of the Lord”
“The Lord said that he would dwell in the thick darkness”
And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even Ten Commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
And the Lord commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go over to possess it.
Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves; for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day that the Lord spake unto you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire:
Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female,
The likeness of any beast that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged fowl that flieth in the air,
The likeness of any thing that creepeth on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the waters beneath the earth:
And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the Lord thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.
“And he declared unto you his covenant”
“which he commanded you to perform”
“Ten Commandments”
“he wrote them upon two tables of stone”
“Lest ye corrupt yourselves”
“make you a graven image”
“the similitude of any figure”
“the likeness of male or female”
“The likeness of any beast that is on the earth”
“the likeness of any winged fowl that flieth in the air”
“The likeness of any thing that creepeth on the ground”
“the likeness of any fish that is in the waters beneath the earth”
“And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven”
“when thou seest the sun”
“the moon”
“even all the host of heaven”
“LEST YE CORRUPT YOURSELVES”
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.
“WHEN THOU SEEST THE SUN”
“THE MOON”
“AND THE STARS”
“God made two great lights”
“the greater light to rule the day”
“the lesser light to rule the night”
“God called the light Day”
”the darkness he called Night
”he made the stars also”
“THE LIKENESS OF ANY FISH THAT IS IN THE WATERS BENEATH THE EARTH”
“Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life”
“God created great whales”
“and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind”
“THE LIKENESS OF ANY THING THAT CREEPETH ON THE GROUND”
“God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing”
“THE LIKENESS OF ANY WINGED FOWL THAT FLIETH IN THE AIR”
“and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven”
“every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.”
““THE LIKENESS OF ANY BEAST THAT IS ON THE EARTH”
“and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.”
“And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.”
“THE LIKENESS OF MALE OR FEMALE”
“So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.”
“MAKE YOU A GRAVEN IMAGE”
“THE SIMILITUDE OF ANY FIGURE”
“God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness”
“LEST YE CORRUPT YOURSELVES”
“AND LEST THOU LIFT UP THINE EYES UNTO HEAVEN”
“EVEN ALL THE HOST OF HEAVEN”
“Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.”
“LEST YE CORRUPT YOURSELVES”
“And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it”
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
And God said, Let the waters under the Heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
And the evening and the morning were the third day.
And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Posted by: harold | September 11, 2008 10:38 PM
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AMERICA NEEDS SARAH PALIN!!!!!
Posted by: RALPH | September 11, 2008 2:21 PM
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I am a Democrat and a Christian in the most liberal of Protestant denominations, but I have been appalled by the double standard on personal religious views of the candidates. So much hatred. So much guilt-by-association. Fact Check, hardly a GOP front group, has examined the question of whether her religious views influence her policy on public education. http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_palin.html
Posted by: HRH | September 11, 2008 2:08 PM
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Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
“Seeing ye have PURIFIED YOUR SOULS IN OBEYING THE TRUTH through the spirit”
“love of the brethren”
“see that ye love one another with a PURE HEART fervently”
“BEING BORN AGAIN”
“by the WORD OF GOD”
“which LIVETH AND ABIDETH FOR EVER.”
Then answered Zophar the Naamathite, and said,
Should not the multitude of words be answered? and should a man full of talk be justified?
Should thy lies make men hold their peace? and when thou mockest, shall no man make thee ashamed?
For thou hast said, My doctrine is pure, and I am clean in thine eyes.
But oh that God would speak, and open his lips against thee;
“For thou hast said”
“MY DOCTRINE IS PURE”
“But oh that God would speak”
“and open his lips against thee”
Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth.
My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:
Because I will publish the name of the Lord: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.
MY DOCTRINE SHALL DROP AS THE RAIN
BECAUSE I WILL PUBLISH THE NAME OF THE LORD
For the Lord shall judge his people, and repent himself for his servants, when he seeth that their power is gone, and there is none shut up, or left.
And he shall say, Where are their gods, their rock in whom they trusted,
Which did eat the fat of their sacrifices, and drank the wine of their drink offerings? let them rise up and help you, and be your protection.
See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever.
“But oh that God would speak”
“and open his lips against thee”
“Which did eat the fat of their sacrifices, and drank the wine of their drink offerings”
“let them rise up and help you, and be your protection.”
“I make alive”
“I heal”
“For I lift up my hand to heaven”
“I live for ever”
THE LORD SHALL SET HIS HAND AGAIN THE SECOND TIME
to recover the remnant of his people
he shall set up an ensign for the nations
and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel
and gather together the dispersed of Judah
the four corners of the earth
the Lord shall utterly destroy the tongue
there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people
And in that day thou shalt say
O Lord, I will praise thee
Behold, God is my salvation
I will trust, and not be afraid
Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation.
Praise the Lord
call upon his name
Sing unto the Lord
Posted by: harold | September 11, 2008 9:06 AM
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This is the generation of them that seek him, that seek thy face, O Jacob
Shew me thy ways, O Lord; teach me thy paths.
Lead me in thy truth, and teach me: for thou art the God of my salvation; on thee do I wait all the day.
Remember, O Lord, thy tender mercies and thy lovingkindnesses; for they have been ever of old.
Remember not the sins of my youth, nor my transgressions: according to thy mercy remember thou me for thy goodness' sake, O Lord.
Good and upright is the Lord: therefore will he teach sinners in the way.
The meek will he guide in judgment: and the meek will he teach his way.
All the paths of the Lord are mercy and truth unto such as keep his covenant and his testimonies.
For thy name's sake, O Lord, pardon mine iniquity; for it is great.
What man is he that feareth the Lord? him shall he teach in the way that he shall choose.
His soul shall dwell at ease; and his seed shall inherit the earth.
The secret of the Lord is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.
“The secret of the Lord is with them that fear him”
“and he will shew them his covenant”
I waited patiently for the Lord; and he inclined unto me, and heard my cry.
He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, and established my goings.
And he hath put a new song in my mouth, even praise unto our God: many shall see it, and fear, and shall trust in the Lord.
Blessed is that man that maketh the Lord his trust, and respecteth not the proud, nor such as turn aside to lies.
Many, O Lord my God, are thy wonderful works which thou hast done, and thy thoughts which are to us-ward: they cannot be reckoned up in order unto thee: if I would declare and speak of them, they are more than can be numbered.
Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.
Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,
I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.
I have preached righteousness in the great congregation: lo, I have not refrained my lips, O Lord, thou knowest.
I have not hid thy righteousness within my heart; I have declared thy faithfulness and thy salvation: I have not concealed thy lovingkindness and thy truth from the great congregation.
Withhold not thou thy tender mercies from me, O Lord: let thy lovingkindness and thy truth continually preserve me.
For innumerable evils have compassed me about: mine iniquities have taken hold upon me, so that I am not able to look up; they are more than the hairs of mine head: therefore my heart faileth me.
Be pleased, O Lord, to deliver me: O Lord, make haste to help me.
“he hath put a new song in my mouth”
“many shall see it, and fear”
“and shall trust in the Lord”
“Then said I, Lo, I come”
“in the volume of the book it is written of me”
Rejoice in the Lord, O ye righteous: for praise is comely for the upright.
Praise the Lord with harp: sing unto him with the psaltery and an instrument of ten strings.
Sing unto him a new song; play skilfully with a loud noise.
For the word of the Lord is right; and all his works are done in truth.
He loveth righteousness and judgment: the earth is full of the goodness of the Lord.
By the word of the Lord were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.
“By the word of the Lord were the heavens made”
“and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.”
Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the Lord hath wrought this?
In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.
Doth not the ear try words? and the mouth taste his meat?
With the ancient is wisdom; and in length of days understanding.
With him is wisdom and strength, he hath counsel and understanding.
“Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the Lord hath wrought this?”
“In whose hand is the soul of every living thing”
“and the breath of all mankind”
“Doth not the ear try words?”
“and the mouth taste his meat?”
“With him is wisdom and strength,”
“he hath counsel and understanding.”
Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold.
For wisdom is better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it.
I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions.
The fear of the Lord is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.
Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding; I have strength.
“The fear of the Lord is to hate evil”
“Counsel is mine,”
“and sound wisdom”
“I am understanding”
“I have strength”
Send ye the lamb to the ruler of the land from Sela to the wilderness, unto the mount of the daughter of Zion.
For it shall be, that, as a wandering bird cast out of the nest, so the daughters of Moab shall be at the fords of Arnon.
Take counsel, execute judgment; make thy shadow as the night in the midst of the noonday; hide the outcasts; bewray not him that wandereth.
Let mine outcasts dwell with thee, Moab; be thou a covert to them from the face of the spoiler: for the extortioner is at an end, the spoiler ceaseth, the oppressors are consumed out of the land.
And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.
We have heard of the pride of Moab; he is very proud: even of his haughtiness, and his pride, and his wrath: but his lies shall not be so.
Therefore shall Moab howl for Moab, every one shall howl: for the foundations of Kirhareseth shall ye mourn; surely they are stricken.
For the fields of Heshbon languish, and the vine of Sibmah: the lords of the heathen have broken down the principal plants thereof, they are come even unto Jazer, they wandered through the wilderness: her branches are stretched out, they are gone over the sea.
Therefore I will bewail with the weeping of Jazer the vine of Sibmah: I will water thee with my tears, O Heshbon, and Elealeh: for the shouting for thy summer fruits and for thy harvest is fallen.
And gladness is taken away, and joy out of the plentiful field; and in the vineyards there shall be no singing, neither shall there be shouting: the treaders shall tread out no wine in their presses; I have made their vintage shouting to cease.
Wherefore my bowels shall sound like an harp for Moab, and mine inward parts for Kirharesh.
And it shall come to pass, when it is seen that Moab is weary on the high place, that he shall come to his sanctuary to pray; but he shall not prevail.
This is the word that the Lord hath spoken concerning Moab since that time.
But now the Lord hath spoken, saying, Within three years, as the years of an hireling, and the glory of Moab shall be contemned, with all that great multitude; and the remnant shall be very small and feeble.
“Send ye the lamb to the ruler of the land from Sela to the wilderness”
“that he shall come to his sanctuary to pray; but he shall not prevail.”
“But now the Lord hath spoken”
“Within three years”
“the glory of Moab shall be contemned”
And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord;
And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.
And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
The envy also of Ephraim shall depart, and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off: Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim.
But they shall fly upon the shoulders of the Philistines toward the west; they shall spoil them of the east together: they shall lay their hand upon Edom and Moab; and the children of Ammon shall obey them.
And the Lord shall utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea; and with his mighty wind shall he shake his hand over the river, and shall smite it in the seven streams, and make men go over dryshod.
And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.
And in that day thou shalt say, O Lord, I will praise thee: though thou wast angry with me, thine anger is turned away, and thou comfortedst me.
Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the Lord Jehovah is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.
Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation.
And in that day shall ye say, Praise the Lord, call upon his name, declare his doings among the people, make mention that his name is exalted.
Sing unto the Lord; for he hath done excellent things: this is known in all the earth.
Cry out and shout, thou inhabitant of Zion: for great is the Holy One of Israel in the midst of thee.
the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him
the spirit of wisdom and understanding
the spirit of counsel and might
the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord
And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord
But with righteousness shall he judge the poor
and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth
for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord
which shall stand for an ensign of the people
to it shall the Gentiles seek
and his rest shall be glorious
it shall come to pass in that day,
THE LORD SHALL SET HIS HAND AGAIN THE SECOND TIME
to recover the remnant of his people
he shall set up an ensign for the nations
and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel
and gather together the dispersed of Judah
the four corners of the earth
the Lord shall utterly destroy the tongue
there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people
And in that day thou shalt say
O Lord, I will praise thee
Behold, God is my salvation
I will trust, and not be afraid
Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation.
Praise the Lord
call upon his name
Sing unto the Lord
This is the generation of them that seek him, that seek thy face, O Jacob
Posted by: harold | September 11, 2008 8:43 AM
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This article raises important issues but has one mistake in it. The dispensationalist believe that the Christians are raptured --taken up into heaven -- and thus avoid the tribulations. That's what we would all like to believe, but it is not biblically sound. The passage in I Thess. 4 on which the pre-tribulaton rapture is based is actually about Christ's 2nd coming. If anyone would like to learn why the pre-tribulation rapture is not biblically sound, e mail me and I will send you a biblical analysis of it.
Posted by: jim cubie | September 11, 2008 8:18 AM
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Which book are you recorded in? Which book of life? Who do you stand before? Are you numbered or named.
And he took the BOOK OF THE COVENANT, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient.
And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord hath made with you concerning all these words.
Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the Lord hath wrought this?
In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.
Doth not the ear try words? and the mouth taste his meat?
With the ancient is wisdom; and in length of days understanding.
With him is wisdom and strength, he hath counsel and understanding.
“Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the Lord hath wrought this?”
“In whose hand is the soul of every living thing”
“and the breath of all mankind”
“Doth not the ear try words?”
“and the mouth taste his meat?”
“With him is wisdom and strength,”
“he hath counsel and understanding.”
And the Lord spake unto MOSES and Aaron in the land of Egypt saying,
This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you.
Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house:
And if the household be too little for the lamb, let him and his neighbour next unto his house take it according to the number of the souls; every man according to his eating shall make your count for the lamb.
“and the mouth taste his meat?”
“In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb”
“take it according to the NUMBER of the souls”
This is the thing which the Lord hath commanded, Gather of it every man according to his eating, an omer for every man, according to the number of your persons; take ye every man for them which are in his tents.
And the children of Israel did so, and gathered, some more, some less.
And when they did mete it with an omer, he that gathered much had nothing over, and he that gathered little had no lack; they gathered every man according to his eating.
And MOSES said, Let no man leave of it till the morning.
Notwithstanding they hearkened not unto Moses; but some of them left of it until the morning, and it bred worms, and stank: and Moses was wroth with them.
And they gathered it every morning, every man according to his eating: and when the sun waxed hot, it melted.
“and the mouth taste his meat?”
“Gather of it every man according to his eating”
“an omer for every man”
“according to the NUMBER of your persons”
“take ye every man for them which are in his tents.”
And the Lord spake unto MOSES, saying,
When thou takest the sum of the children of Israel after their number, then shall they give every man a ransom for his soul unto the Lord, when thou numberest them; that there be no plague among them, when thou numberest them.
This they shall give, every one that passeth among them that are numbered, half a shekel after the shekel of the sanctuary: (a shekel is twenty gerahs:) an half shekel shall be the offering of the Lord.
Every one that passeth among them that are numbered, from twenty years old and above, shall give an offering unto the Lord.
The rich shall not give more, and the poor shall not give less than half a shekel, when they give an offering unto the Lord, to make an atonement for your souls.
And thou shalt take the atonement money of the children of Israel, and shalt appoint it for the service of the tabernacle of the congregation; that it may be a memorial unto the children of Israel before the Lord, to make an atonement for your souls.
“When thou takest the sum of the children of Israel after their NUMBER”
“then shall they give every man a ransom for his soul unto the Lord”
”when they give an offering unto the Lord”
“to make an atonement for your souls.”
And the Lord said unto Moses, Write this for a memorial in a book, and rehearse it in the ears of Joshua: for I will utterly put out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven.
Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, Who is on the Lord's side? let him come unto me. And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him.
And he said unto them, Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.
And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men.
For Moses had said, Consecrate yourselves to day to the Lord, even every man upon his son and upon his brother that he may bestow upon you a blessing this day.
And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the Lord; peradventure I shall make an atonement for your sin.
And Moses returned unto the Lord, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold.
Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.
And the Lord said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.
Therefore now go, lead the people unto the place of which I have spoken unto thee: behold, mine Angel shall go before thee: nevertheless in the day when I visit I will visit their sin upon them.
And the Lord plagued the people, because they made the calf, which Aaron made.
“Who is on the Lord's side? let him come unto me.”
“there fell of the people that day about three thousand men.”
“Whosoever hath sinned against me”
“him will I blot out of my book.”
Therefore, my brethren dearly beloved and longed for, my joy and crown, so stand fast in the Lord, my dearly beloved.
I beseech Euodias, and beseech Syntyche, that they be of the same mind in the Lord.
And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.
Rejoice in the Lord alway: and again I say, Rejoice.
Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.
Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
“so stand fast in the Lord”
“that they be of the same mind in the Lord”
“Rejoice in the Lord always”
“and again I say, Rejoice”
“The Lord is at hand.”
BROUGHT THEM UNTO ADAM
And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
“Lord God formed every beast of the field”
“and every fowl of the air”
“brought them unto ADAM to see what he would call them”
“whatsoever Adam called every LIVING CREATURE”
“that was the NAME thereof”
This is THE BOOK OF THE GENERATIONS OF ADAM. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
THE BOOK OF THE GENERATION OF JESUS CHRIST, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
Is this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, even I have seen it, saith the Lord.
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the BOOK OF LIFE OF THE LAMB slain from the foundation of the world.
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Posted by: harold | September 11, 2008 8:00 AM
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If religious connections are a problem, then Senator Obama has shown that it is not fair to hold candidates responsible for the views of their church or pastors. A particular religious view does not automatically become public policy.
Senator Obama has had his share of connections with radicals, and he is still considered fit to be President of the US, not just by a lot of Americans but also by others around the world.
Compare policies of the team.
Governor Palin is only running for VP; Senator McCain is not on his death bed breathing his last. They are as a team not without political advisers who are experts in their respective fields. Just like the Obama-Biden team.
Posted by: Anonymous | September 11, 2008 1:24 AM
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Camille Paglia on Salon.com
A beady-eyed McCain gets a boost from the charismatic Sarah Palin, a powerful new feminist -- yes, feminist! -- force.
Conservative though she may be, I felt that Palin represented an explosion of a brand new style of muscular American feminism. At her startling debut on that day, she was combining male and female qualities in ways that I have never seen before. And she was somehow able to seem simultaneously reassuringly traditional and gung-ho futurist. In terms of redefining the persona for female authority and leadership, Palin has made the biggest step forward in feminism since Madonna channeled the dominatrix persona of high-glam Marlene Dietrich and rammed pro-sex, pro-beauty feminism down the throats of the prissy, victim-mongering, philistine feminist establishment...
As a dissident feminist, I have been arguing since my arrival on the scene nearly 20 years ago that young American women aspiring to political power should be studying military history rather than taking women's studies courses, with their rote agenda of never-ending grievances...
Over the Labor Day weekend, with most of the big enchiladas of the major media on vacation, the vacuum was filled with a hallucinatory hurricane in the leftist blogosphere, which unleashed a grotesquely lurid series of allegations, fantasies, half-truths and outright lies about Palin. What a tacky low in American politics -- which has already caused a backlash that could damage Obama's campaign. When liberals come off as childish, raving loonies, the right wing gains. I am still waiting for substantive evidence that Sarah Palin is a dangerous extremist. I am perfectly willing to be convinced, but right now, she seems to be merely an optimistic pragmatist like Ronald Reagan, someone who pays lip service to religious piety without being in the least wedded to it. I don't see her arrival as portending the end of civil liberties or life as we know it...
It is certainly premature to predict how the Palin saga will go. I may not agree a jot with her about basic principles, but I have immensely enjoyed Palin's boffo performances at her debut and at the Republican convention, where she astonishingly dealt with multiple technical malfunctions without missing a beat. A feminism that cannot admire the bravura under high pressure of the first woman governor of a frontier state isn't worth a warm bucket of spit...
But the pro-life position, whether or not it is based on religious orthodoxy, is more ethically highly evolved than my own tenet of unconstrained access to abortion on demand...
Hence I have always frankly admitted that abortion is murder, the extermination of the powerless by the powerful. Liberals for the most part have shrunk from facing the ethical consequences of their embrace of abortion, which results in the annihilation of concrete individuals and not just clumps of insensate tissue...
What I am getting at here is that not until the Democratic Party stringently reexamines its own implicit assumptions and rhetorical formulas will it be able to deal effectively with the enduring and now escalating challenge from the pro-life right wing. Because pro-choice Democrats have been arguing from cold expedience, they have thus far been unable to make an effective ethical case for the right to abortion.
The gigantic, instantaneous coast-to-coast rage directed at Sarah Palin when she was identified as pro-life was, I submit, a psychological response by loyal liberals who on some level do not want to open themselves to deep questioning about abortion and its human consequences...
It is nonsensical and counterproductive for Democrats to imagine that pro-life values can be defeated by maliciously destroying their proponents. And it is equally foolish to expect that feminism must for all time be inextricably wed to the pro-choice agenda. There is plenty of room in modern thought for a pro-life feminism -- one in fact that would have far more appeal to third-world cultures where motherhood is still honored and where the Western model of the hard-driving, self-absorbed career woman is less admired.
But the one fundamental precept that Democrats must stand for is independent thought and speech. When they become baying bloodhounds of rigid dogma, Democrats have committed political suicide.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/2008/09/10/palin/index.html
Posted by: Anonymous | September 11, 2008 1:18 AM
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---
Hello "Nicolaitan(s) {Enemys of the JO{KTAN-Race in America, not Peleg
---
Here are YE Hol{i}-Cosmic NEBULA given “TETRA-NEEDS“ on Space-Ship EARTH! Followed by the “THE TEN FiATS” Of The “NEW-SONG” ( plus 3 the alternates/Supplements) for a better World to LOVE & liVE in ,UNTiL Apocalyptic, but Genuine END-Of-TiME(s), not PRE-APOCALYPTiC Bible/ARMAGEDDON thinking etc..!!
Note: If YE are Minus ANY one of These TERTA-NEEDS below, then Houston Ye Have a Problem!
^ .^. ^
FOOD
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us
1:F♣♣D To keep from disappearing;
2:H♦ME Abode to sleep/enjoy/protect;
3:L♥VE, someone to or have companion;
4:CL♠TH, something to wear!
IMPORTANT: Rich, Middle-class or Poor, Besides Keeping Busy that, If YE hath All these “4-Tetra-Needs“ then Ye hath No Worry’s , in the World, on this Blesseth Holy Cosmic Miraculous, & zero biblical Sin, Holy Cosmic NEBULAS-built S.paceS.hip Planet EARTH, aka S.S. GAiA, S.S. GEOiD, S.S. TELLUSng something!
--- Below are the 10 + 3, alternate, FiATS Of THE "NEW-SONG"
BEHOLD, The "10 Fiats" of the NEW SONG & the "2 Alternatives".
Please; Magnify Them & make them Honorable & Uphold Them!
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1) "Let there be NO Worship of JEALOUSY as a G-D.!"
2) "Let there be NO Abuse of LOVE to forgive UNCORRECTED-SIN(s)!"
3) "Let there be NO Hassling over a NAME for G-d!"
4) "Let there be NO Denial of FREEDOM OF EKCLATi-ON-ity or
APOCALYPTARiANiTY as RELIGION et al!"
5) "Let there be NO Dishonoring of HONORABLE Parents!"
6) "Let there be NO Unjustifiable HOMICIDE or HURTING!"
7) "Let there be NO Sex with Non-CONSENTERS or BEASTS!"
8) "Let there be NO Theft from NON-THIEVES or NON-USERERS!"
9) "Let there be NO False WITNESSING or Un-JUST Judging!"
10) "Let there be NO Envy of {HU} {MATES} or Folks keeping these FIATS of O.U.R.
NEW-SONG!"
-
11) “Let there be NO Denial of TETRA-NEEDS (Food, Shelter, LOVE & Clothes) to
Any 'Hum {Ate} {Kind}!”
12) "Let there be NO Procrastination nor LAZYNESS!"
13) “Let there Be NO Denial To Self Nor Others in contemplation of REALITY, aka Ye Holy TRANS {FiNiTY}!”
BEHOLD YO! "The RELiGiON of Everything, is now prophetically, cometh before the SCiENCE of Everything ,
All this MiRACLE , never a Sin, as Promised Us-All via "O.U.R." Prophet & Father of the HO-Co-Fe-Fa SYSTEM, via hir Albert Einstein [pbuh et al], whom gaveth Us the "QUANTUM-ENTANGLEMENT" & "RELATiViTY" story: And
Behold, [Dr.] Harry W. Theriault, OUR Bard & Prophet, aka the Bishop Of Tellus & many more Names, as Promised , for O.U.R. MEMETiCs, as Inheritence, or
For Us 'HUE{MATEs}, Not HUMANs anymore, via All the Earths currently known "iNFiXUS-BOOKS", that like from Catterpillar to Butterfly, hath Propheticaly & TRULY (opposite of MYTH) becometh the "O.ne U.niversal R.eligio BOOK OF 'TRANS{FiNiTY'} ['REALiTY' in the "OUR-BOT"} innate SYSTEM. Zero man Made!
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Sing HALLALUYA! Praise the Hol{i}-No-Wo-Men! An "IT" (Apocalyptic G-D, not Pre-Apocalyptic god) being "iTSELF.
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Posted by: Hello "Nicolaitan(s) {Enemys of the JO{KTAN-Race in America, not Peleg | September 10, 2008 9:16 PM
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Advice,
Yeah, I've tried that. It kept asking me cryptic questions about servers - apparently no one else here has that problem. MOST frustrating for me, I've been trying to get rid of that idiot for the better part of a year.
Posted by: Arminius | September 10, 2008 9:08 PM
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To search past the is prick's little boy pissing on the sidewalk, do a search for "REPORT OFFENSIVE", hit F3 to seach again, will work in most browsers, this will take you to the bottom of each message.
As there is nothing we can do to make this little criminal behave, we have to just go around him.
Posted by: advice | September 10, 2008 9:03 PM
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The long, offensive post here was inflicted by someone known as JJ. Those are his initials, because his name triggers an automatic block. But he has learned to get by this. If you want to know how sick he is, go to his web site. Note that I have spelled his name BACKWARDS between the two dots. Reverse the spelling to get it to work.
www.zvezoj.us
If you want to find out about his 'religion', created in prison and probably white supremacist, go here:
http://www.insideprison.com/prison_gang_profile_CONS.asp
Posted by: Arminius | September 10, 2008 7:03 PM
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Earth to Moderator... Mission control calling Moderator... Come in Moderator.... Wake UP!!!!! We have a problem here, the recurrence of JJ's mindless, sick posts, complete with - note well - PERSONAL ATTACKS on me, Paganplace, and B-Man. If you do not wish to be labeled a complete lying wuss, get rid of this infection RIGHT NOW!!!!
But of course, you won't.....
Posted by: Arminius | September 10, 2008 6:42 PM
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screw marriage you prick, and screw you.
Posted by: grunt | September 10, 2008 6:28 PM
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JoeMac, these are standard republican mechanisms of rhetoric.
if you fear what someone else will do if they get elected, if you feel it will destroy the world as you know it, then stating that does not imply that you expect they will win.
Yelling at the top of your lungs about how evil you think something is does not mean you want it to happen.
Wait for her to speak on these matters?
The republicans (rove) are sufficiently intelligent in these election matters, they will not allow Palin to speak her real beliefs - those she states quite readily in these videos we see going around.
She is possibly a nutcase, that is my take on what I've seen of her. Her support of Alaskan Secession is the kind of thing that makes one say: She's a traitor to the constitution
She's probably a dominionist, anything that nutjob reverend Wright says is just hot air compared to the evil things these people want to do to us. I don't like hot air either, in fact I despise that man - but I don't fear him.
I do fear Palin. She represents the very worst part of democracy, that a fanatic brand of christian fascism can take over one of the existing parties and from there take over the country - without even representing anything approaching a majority of the electorate.
She may not even represent the majority of republicans, but they have cravenly sold their soul to these people to maintain power and this attempt to cram Palin down our throats is an attempt to sell our soul as well.
I know what I wish on the republicans - massive defeat. I only wish the democrats had something useful to say, had a viable candidate to oppose her. I don't like their story either, but I only dislike them. They are a long term disease, Palin is a virulent cancer and our time is short if she and her kind take power.
Posted by: mech | September 10, 2008 5:42 PM
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I could care less about what Sarah Palin believes in her church. As CCNL pointed out, my religion looks pretty wacky to outsiders, too. (Talk about taking stuff out of context there, CCNL...) What I care about is if she wants to make the dictates of her faith the law of the land, and enforce it on those of us who do not follow the same set of beliefs. I want to know if they will honor the Constitution and the First Amendment. I would ask the same of any candidate - Mitt Romney, Mike Huckabee, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, or Ron Paul.
Posted by: Athena | September 10, 2008 5:10 PM
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How many christians in the past 2000 years have believe they were in the end times? What did they do with these beliefs, how did they act on them?
Did they give away their stuff, go live in caves, gather together at the beach to wait ... or did they try to start Armageddon?
Palin is at least a creationist, if not an outright dominionist. Even if the leftwing freaks are frothing at the mouth over their hatred for her, we can't dismiss all their arguments for that reason.
Anyone who wishes to run my country better have her head out, I don't appreciate having nutjobs running my government into the ground. Many of the christians say they have a right to know about her religious beliefs, because they want to vote for one of their own, people who believe as they.
Well I want to vote against creationists and dominionists. You have your beliefs, well I believe these people are sick, suffering from some kind of mental disease, and I don't trust them so close to our nuclear weapons. I do not trust their belief in armageddon, I do not trust they will not take action to make it real for all of us.
You want to vote your beliefs? Well so do I, and I believe domonionists are traitors to our constitution and truly evil, wicked people.
Posted by: art | September 10, 2008 5:02 PM
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Paganplace, Paganplace, Paganplace,
Stone you and your "witchie" sisters??? (besides being against the laws of the USA)
What we do for our links to the paranormal, our Willow Trees, our Willowstars, and the initiation into our local covens as noted below:
The Challenger holds the point of the sword up to the candidates heart, and says:
"You are about to enter a vortex of power, a place beyond imagining, where birth and death, dark and light, joy and pain, meet and make one. You are about to step between the worlds, beyond time, outside the realm of your human life. You who stands on the threshold of the dread Mighty Ones, have you the courage to make the essay? For know it is better to fall on my blade and perish than to make the attempt with fear in thy heart!"
The apprentice answers:
"I tread the path with perfect love and perfect trust."
i.e. Pagans especially Wiccans are a bit odd but are good citizens.
Posted by: Concerned The Christian Now Liberated | September 10, 2008 4:44 PM
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Dont worry about Sarah's Relationship with Jesus Christ. It is fine. Concern yourself with her political positions. Her record in Alaska and approval rating are tops. We need men AND women like her.
Posted by: Gordon Rose | September 10, 2008 4:22 PM
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I mean, Joemac, this is *actual fascism* we're talking about here.
You bet she ought to at least appear on a morning show that's concerned about more than fashion.
Posted by: Paganplace | September 10, 2008 3:44 PM
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"Pesonally, I don't know what Palin's religious views are, and I suspect none of you really do, either. Moreover, I suspect that you have already made up your minds about her anyway, regardless of what she says (reminds me of similar scenario that played out many, many years ago in Palestine ;-), and have no intention of voting for the McCain/Palin ticket. So, what's your motivaton?"
Eh, cause what she says ain't too reassuring on knowing whether or not she's a) a crook, or b) interested in superceding American law and our Constitutional government to have me and my sister publicly stoned to death?
Pardon if I'm just a *leetle* touchy on that subject.
Even if it weren't about diverting attention from the actual *policies* of the respective candidates at a critical time in our nation's history.
Especially after all the Roveian swiftboating about Obama that all of a sudden isn't OK when applied to someone who's actively affiliated with some fanatical churches and preachers?
Picky, picky, picky, me.
Posted by: Paganplace | September 10, 2008 3:40 PM
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I'm not surprised by the tone of this blog post nor subsequent comments. Indeed, they're fairly typical of what I have seen from varous channels on the web, in print media and over the airwaves, suffused with alarm, accusations of extremism, dire warnings and so on. It's the same old same old.
Pesonally, I don't know what Palin's religious views are, and I suspect none of you really do, either. Moreover, I suspect that you have already made up your minds about her anyway, regardless of what she says (reminds me of similar scenario that played out many, many years ago in Palestine ;-), and have no intention of voting for the McCain/Palin ticket. So, what's your motivaton?
Of course, I am aware of the myriad efforts underway to try to define her via rumor, gossip, quotes and misquotes, etc. Other than the outright lies and fabrications, tactics which both the left and right employ, this game of gotcha can be boiled down to this: "She belongs to such-and-such church or congregation and they believe this and that, so she obviously subscribes to this and thus." But if I were to make the same case regarding Obama, his Muslim upbringing and ties to the Rev. Wright, you would be screaming bloody murder, arguing vociferously that you can't paint the man with a broad brush, etc. etc., declaring the absurdity of my logic and so on. Can't have it both ways, folks.
And for the sake of argument, even if she does hold what are generally believed to be conservative religious views, that does not make her 'extreme,' as claimed above. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that more Americans hold views closer to hers than to those of the people throwing around taunts of extremism, radicalism, etc.
Finally, I don't believe that any person with any semblance of understanding of our political system really truly believes that her views are a danger and a threat. That's just politics-as-usual hyperbole. I mean, she's the VP nominee! lol. Rather, this is just the same old same old -"camp-pain" [sic] politics. Nothing new here. The subjects are interchangeable, but the tactics are the same.
Obama is running adds claiming that McCain will kill Roe v. Wade. Reagan couldn't do it in 8 years, nor Bush. Why would McCain be any different? Is he truly that much more effective and influential? Hmmm, perhaps that's your underlying fear? ;-) It's only a matter of time before the ads with the "McCain will kill Social Security!" battle cry start hitting the airwaves. Abortion. Social Security. Religion. All pages from the same old dusty playbook (which the GOP also uses, by the way, with their own interchangeable bogeymen).
Why are Dems so afraid of Palin? Why is Obama running against her? What's driving the hysteria? Ah, the polls! Never mind... ;-)
JM
Posted by: JoeMac | September 10, 2008 2:14 PM
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I'm honestly not seeing the "Religious Extremist" in Sarah Palin. From what I can see from the statements made, she is simply the Bible believing Christian that she has said she is. The beliefs in Creation, heaven, hell, sin, the End Times and others are largely believed in most Evengelical and Catholic churches in America. Since a majority of America belongs to one of these groups it would make sense the VP would have similar beliefs.
Obviously the person writing the article is coming at it from a different standpoint than I, but the beliefs are largely mainstream. They have been believed for many years and were predominately held by the founders.
I do welcome the discussion on her beliefs, they will obviously shape her policy. Let's not get carried away with the critisism. I think searching through sermans and pulling out controversial statements, isn't the best approach. Let's give her a chance to speak on this and discuss what she believes. It's hard to tell what is really meant sometimes.
The connections at the end are a little hard to actually make. I think you need more evidence than an old affiliation to a political party and that parties affiliation. You probably do some more work than to just make a circumstantial connection between Palin and some weird beliefs. Politics often has you working with people that you don't agree with totally or much at all.
I think that Palin is getting a little more criticism than the other candidates on this as well. Have heard a little about McCain and next to nothing about Biden on this. Obama's church was forced in by Rev. Wrights comments but not much else has come of that. I honestly am much more concerned about Wright's comments and liberation theology than I am about Palin. That to me is much more extreme and dangerous.
Posted by: Kert | September 10, 2008 2:09 PM
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Palin's college records are mysteriously-unavailable... Like a certain other governor's past got sealed.
This Dominionist stuff is serious.
Joke going around now is, 'What's the difference between Palin and a Muslim fundamentalist?'
Lipstick.
Posted by: Paganplace | September 10, 2008 12:26 PM
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It is extraordinary that someone with Palin's views could be running as a "Republican." A famous Republican, Ulysses S. Grant, who as much as anyone saved the Republic, once presciently warned that the its future security and prosperity required keeping religion out of politics. Whose country is it? U.S. Grant's or Sarah Palin's?
Posted by: Amicus Warren | September 10, 2008 10:51 AM
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Has anyone looked into whether any of her religious beliefs were influenced by going to college in northern Idaho where there is no shortage of religiously based white supremacists?
Posted by: ej | September 10, 2008 10:42 AM
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Comments concerning this writing have certainly been interesting, to say the least. However, my view is that while Jesus will indeed come again, He didn't say when. What He did say was to not worry about the when, just know that
it will happen. We're not supposed to hide our heads in the sand but, to go about our lives and be reassured that He will come. Religion is to be
separated from government, and this means we must
do what is right for our world. The republicans have demonstrated the inability to do this. The depth of which is beyond my limited intellect to
comprehend. We cannot allow the destruction of our
planet and oceans to continue while we live here.
This is as much a sin as adultry, killing, or any
of the commandments. We must do what we can, while we can, in order to preserve the beautiful
place we call Earth. What good is a trashed planet
for our kids and grandkids until He does come?
Jim R.