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Thank you Lynn!

I also attended the heartfelt service to re-dedication and re-consecrate our sanctuary and agree with Rev.Lynn.

I was pleased the service was not a rehashing of the event. It was a celebration, a healing event, and an acknowedgment of the heroism & community within & around us. Peace cranes given as a Badge of Courage, words and songs to empower.... Singing “The Sun Will Come Out Tomorrow” brought tears to my eyes. Even though I was not present that day, I have sat with and heard the stories of those present. I too am moving through the stages of grief.

I have been a friend of TVUUC since moving to the area 11 years ago and my fondness continues.

The closing words Reverend Mitra spoke at the Monday eve candlelight service, the following day, continues to speak to me:

“Go forth into life – be daring and audacious enough to have hope. Live in a way that makes love known and real. Stand on the side of love.
Dare to believe that grace is true - and let nothing ever silence your song!”

CELEBRATE. Celebrate. Celebrate! Let your radiant heart song encircle the planet with life, love and peace! We are one!!!

Beautiful article. Thank you!

I still remember your advice given at the Rededication Rev. Stauss. Breath in, hold for a moment and breath out, repeat. Solid advice.

As the Director of Religous Education at our small, yet growing Unitarian Universalist congregation in the beautiful Swannanoa Valley of Black Mountain, North Carolina, I too have been deeply moved by the outpouring of strength, love, and support to not only those in deepest need in Knoxville, but from within our own church community as well. We stand strong, proud, and ready to move forward as a congregation. We will continue to teach our children the value of love as the doctrine of our church and service as its prayer. They have much to be proud of. No one will ever make sense of the violence that took place in Knoxville. But love, strength, and steadfast community will overcome fear, hatred, and uncertainty.

you go, Taryn's mom! we are proud to have her as our RE director, and now we know where she got her strength and resolve. i'm sure she's proud to have you for a mama :)

great article. i'm so sorry about this tragedy. there are no words, really. but i just wanted to show support, and say i'm proud to be a Unitarian Universalist, especially in this moment.

As a UU -- and an escapee of a childhood in ultra-fundamentalism in Tennessee -- I give thanks for the outpouring of love the Knoxville congregation experienced following the recent, senseless attack. While the cost of the outreach by the faith community was high, and should have never had to be extracted, the acts of love are encouraging and inspiring. May this be the beginning of unity among people regardless of the various religious banners under which they worship and serve.

Cause you, JJ, and you, Spidey,

Both of you. Cowards.

And there's no one you could kill to change that. You both proclaim grand revelations, and of course 'enemies.'

Cowards like that man who thought shooting some 'liberals' would be a great thing to do some Sunday afternoon.

He...

Was a coward.

Thought the world was all and only about .....him.

Got news for you, cupcakes.

S'not.

Or are we not done shooting people, yet, Mouseketeers?

No?

Lay on, by all means, Righteous people.

Come on. You want more blood, start with me.

Come on! Maybe it'll please your God.

What, no spam, JJ?

I thought you had the answer for everything.

Ye prophet.

I'll tell you one thing about prophecy, 'righteous man.'

Anyone self-centered enough to think the world ends with them, or that they end with the world, ...don't see a damn thing.

As with all things, it's never as tidy nor complete as it may seem from behind a keyboard, or a gun for that matter.

There is always someone to clean up after some idiot's Apocalypse. The world does not conveniently end to suit our inflated egoes, however that happens.

There are *always* consequences. And if we are *very* lucky, we get to deal with them ourselves. No ends. No absolutes. No tidy destructions or reasons to go postal. Just life. Death. And Rebirth.

No good ends come of impure means.

No matter the provocation.

Jacob.

Some say there is but one God, who made sin and evil and seeks to purge it. Fomenting wars and permitting Satans to mislead people.

I say, not so much.

I remember pulling triggers, I remember winning and losing, I remember all manner of things I'd rather not. I remember some surprising lessons.

I remember thinking I was Right.

I remember thinking I *had* to be, and I remember, finding out over and over again, it's actually not important, what you think you know.

I spent this whole Mother-lovin life tring to stop bad things from happening. Gods know how *that* went.

Trying to fight some dismal future.

Tell you this.... it's clear some don't want *any* future.

Like *you* JJ. You claim some 'Ultimate light' but you can't see the difference between yourself, some random loser blowing away some peole in Tennessee, you talking to a 'd.yk.e' and your own sexuality.

You *stupid SOB.*

You want 'Apocalypse,' but, no. Nothing so tidy.

How big a mess you want others to live with, Photon Guy? You want to proclaim new religions and all... Figure it's worth getting over the contents of your own Underoos for?

America should seriously pontificate over its gun policy.

Only a moron would kill for no reason at all; accessibility to guns makes the task easier for all these nut cases.

And the pro gun lobby only makes it all so simple.

Wonder why the church does not use Knoxville to campaign against guns?

And all's I can say about JJ is, as long as he's here spamming *us,* he's not out there hurting anyone else.

As much as some Christians love to scare him about bathrooms.

I have to admit, I'm a little dumbfounded at this, though:

"Please, Stay out of Public Bathrooms, Especially Airports"

Are you saying you go in womens' bathrooms at airports and are afraid of me misinterpreting your toe-tapping, JJ?

I'm guessing even *you* don't have quite such a 'wide stance.'

Snap to it. Life is happening.

I want you to fully-understand my meaning, here, JJ. We are speaking of events you did not see. These were not Internet keywords to direct holy cut-and-paste spam at.

Touch yourself in the head or body.

Real people.

Someone, with a body like that, took a real weapon, and *shot* as many people as he could. In front of children.

You were a child, once, JJ. Just like those who watched someone go blow some people he didn't know, away.

You. Are not going to think or do this, mighty prophet. You are going to rememberthat you were once and still are a child, and these sorts of things are never to be done.

Especially not in the name of the One light which, we are told, resides in each and every one of us, from the time of being children to the time of being raving Internet loonies.

What you are going to do, JJ, is forget who's talking to you right now, and remember you have that bright shard.

Theoretically, it's supposed to be doing its best to be human, which human experience is supposed to mean ... we remember we are all children, too... Do we freak out and croak people in front of children, or anywhere? No, we do not.

You don't get to worry who I snuggle with, JJ.

You worry about yourself trying to end the world over it.

And try to explain your actions to the child you once were.

Dig?

I bet you got an adult body and mind, JJ.

Time to start acting it.

Cause, *no.* The world won't end for you.

Sorry.

Come live.

I will say this, though, JJ. All that blatherskite you were proclaiming.

You do realize... A real dude... Took a real gun.... And killed *real people* in front of *real children.*

Do you understand what these words mean, JJ?

Yadda, yadda, yadda.

Don't make me cal Mr. T, JJ: He'd be like, "Cut the jibba-jabba, foo!

And, just because I'm heartsick about the violence, JJ.

Shut up.

I'm trying to help make a world safe for you to rave at. You could do us the service of paying attention once in a while.

"My friend, Spidey will not listen. If he replies at all, it will not be to what you have so rightly said, but to spew more of his end-of-days twisted 'theology'."

He won't listen. Maybe, one day, he'll have heard, though. There's a difference. I've met more than one individual who's represented what a kid like him grows into. And each in turn has learned why Pagan folk don't hold much fear of the implements of violence inherent in so much Christian worship.

And I was always proud of my 'safety record' as clergy. Was shot at a few times, swung at Gods-know-how many, took away many weapons from people, even got in an honest-to-Goddess swordfight, and always had in the back of my mind, "Twelve Years, Eight Months , Thirteen Days Without a 'Workplace Accident."

I've also had the stuffing kicked out of me more than once by the 'righteous.'

Spidey is *afraid,* Arminius. He seeks *might* and has no idea how it can really be that one is not afraid. He thinks he is apeasing the Scariest God Ever, and can't admit he's a punk. In the derogative sense.

Same sense that makes someone like one of his mentality end up blowing away a few Unitarians to appease his 'God.' Or think the world's so much about *him* that he might end up think it's 'proving' something to show up in a 'liberal' church with eighty rounds of buckshot. Which is not just a whole lot of malice, but an awful lot of ingrained hubris, to think the people he hates are such sheep he could get eighty rounds off.

He does not love your Christ. Does not *understand* your Christ. He just thinks your Christ is someone he can *appease* if he helps desroy our world as the Christian religion insists must happen, and presents that as comfort for the perusal of narcissistic ...sadists.

Who want to do what they feel is 'bad' and then be 'forgiven' when the world conveniently 'ends.'

But, my friend, it never does. One thing about remembering past lives is ... all the extremism in the world won't make 'Creation' any more *convenient* to the ego.

I could tell you things that would haunt your dreams about what violent and 'righteous' men will do when they think they have license.

Also how many F-heads gunning for their personal apocaypses or just cutting on their wives get dissuaded for the time being, like sharks, with a good bop inna nose.

That part is not about *religion.* That part is about what *your* religion, does to people under these conditions, Arminius.

Not your Christ. Your religion. How it shapes the world for people. Your Christ is welcome in *my* world, but F me if I'll live in his. Capiche?

"You need to understand that Spidey is not a Christian. He is the brainwashed product of some really nasty cult, perhaps bred of Falwell. A true Christian follows Jesus, and the love that He taught. Spidey has never mentioned Jesus in any post. Spidey has never used the word 'love' in any post"

Actually he *has.* He just doesn't know what the word *means.*

Cause some people have redefined it for him, quite thoroughly.

His world is ending, always, and he's scrabbling for his place on the life-raft.

So, we're in the pond of the Public Gardens, but he thinks he's gotta step on some people.

After reading Spidey's hated-filled posts, I'm heartened to see that many in the Christian community condemn his nonsense.

Though not a believer myself, I certainly applaud everyone who sees their spiritual belief as a springboard to a higher and more tolerant consciousness, rather than as a soapbox to spew hate.

Hi, Paganplace,

My friend, Spidey will not listen. If he replies at all, it will not be to what you have so rightly said, but to spew more of his end-of-days twisted 'theology'.

You need to understand that Spidey is not a Christian. He is the brainwashed product of some really nasty cult, perhaps bred of Falwell. A true Christian follows Jesus, and the love that He taught. Spidey has never mentioned Jesus in any post. Spidey has never used the word 'love' in any post. The Sermon on the Mount is not in his demented realm of belief. He despises the Last Supper, and has profaned it, even though it is a central factor in most of Christianity. He is only focused on the 'Last Days', and apparently is gripped by a sadistic hunger to see most of humanity tossed into the mythical 'burning lake'. He can never be reached, except perhaps by a skilled professional who is versed in deprogramming. Most of what he spews is simply comical, but some of his posts have disgusted and outraged me, not just from a religious standpoint, but from a universal moral standpoint as well.

I pity Spidey. He truly walks in darkness.

See, there, big guy ''spiderman,' I think what this is about for you is not humans, nor the world, but all these things you demand about a doomed and damned world representing an *excuse* for you thinking you can *conrol* your own little world through books and extremism, and hurting others.

Like if you make the outside world *so* horrible, doomed, and irredeemable, you get to feel like your idea of your book may as well be 'in control.'

People were *shot.* Children. Human children, with minds and souls and memories, were *traumatized* cause some loser got it in his head he could give himself permission to blow away unbelievers.

For *him,* it was easy. All *he* had to do was lose heart. Lose humanity. Lose any semblance of the *souls* some purport to be 'saving.' By speaking hate.

What about you, apocalyptic little man?

Is this what you want?

Cause you, Spidey, choose to *speak* the extremism.

Is how it plays out in action what you *choose,* or not?

So, Spidey, as an apocalyptic 'true Christian,' what's your position on an apocalyptic 'True Christian' walking into the local UU and opening fire?

Pegleg wrote "I suggest that you apply your well meaning efforts to getting the Christian house in order. If you could cast out the scoundrels in the bunch, you would have a damn fine religion. "

By showing what is false Christianity (Catholicism, liberal protestantism, etc.) I think Im doing just that.

***

Anonymous wrote "Communism has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with economic class."

There are many poor Islamic countries but none of them turned communist. Catholic countries are also easily swayed to communism because many of its priests believe in it. Religion is a big factor in communism. Many buddhists are godless people. That is part of their religion. Shifting from Buddhism to communism is not such a big deal for them.

For true Christians, the shift would be unthinkable. It's also unthinkable even in Islamic countries though it's a false religion.

Frankly, I think that if there's one thing we can learn from recent events... in the world and in our communities, is that we *need* each other, with all our different views and perspectives. Some are terrified of and angry at this fact, but our world has gotten *too complex* to even imagine that of the competing 'One Right Views' have anything *like* what we need to live and prosper together.

With all our differences, *because of and using to the fullest,* all of our differences.

Not in spite of them, or waiting till after all differences are somehow eliminated.

Our *differences* are how we're going to get through this.

Cause the contents of any one human head or any one human religion.... Are not enough.

And, frankly, if someone thinks Buddhists are too 'innately prone to socialism' ...may I point out that a whole lot of Christians seem to me to be awfully-prone to thinking the 'Invisible Hand of The Market' is one and the same as certain other invisible hands they like to credit for... the rest of the world.

But it doesn't stop the greed and hate and strife, does it?

It would probably be a lot easier if people would stop seeing Communism and anything that smacks of 'socialism' as innately evil, compared to sacred capitalism, and understand that the problem with Communism is that it's too innately-corruptible to be practical: socialism is nice, if you never forget it needs just as much liberty and oversight as does capitalism.

As capitalism goes, there's a difference between a mom and pop hardware store and Enron, too.

So it's no flag to wave. Just a way of organizing, ...or letting someone else do it for you.

Nothing sacrosanct about any of them.

I don't know if there's a god or not, but those individuals that stood beside the grieving parishioners and supported them with love and solidarity certainly expressed the highest good of the human heart and of their respective religions.

I hope they continue to show love and tolerance long after the event and build bridges rather than erecting walls.

"And followers of Buddhism are easily swayed to communism (China, Cambodia, Vietnam, North Korea)"

Unlike those in Russia, of course. Communism has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with economic class. Spidey, you claim to be so insightful about God, but you keep showing that you have less common sense than my cat does.

With regards to the original column, and the neighboring churches who rose to the occasion...

That's good.

In the face of such inhumanity, I'd expect no less of my fellow humans, of course. Let's hope that this occasion at least results in a sober reconsideration of some of the rhetoric out there, even if a couple on this thread try to justify the shooter's actions by continuing to attack the UU and those of differen forms of belief.

Post-traumatic stress is serious business, something I know, well, too much, about. Particularly if rooted in a single incident, it's very recoverable, though. And immediate care of the best human kind is one of the best things for it. The nature of it seems to be bound-up fight-flight-freeze reflexes, and the solutions aren't so much cognitive as experiential. Felt in the body, even as the brain tries to orient to the feelings of continuing threat the body sends.

In a somewhat emotionally-stilted and word-based culture, it's important to remember to let those emotions release.

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: NEITHER can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." (1 Cor. 2:14)

As I've said, it can't be easily shared unlike science.

The Book is full of parables and metaphors coz some people won't be able to handle the TRUTH.

Spiderman...

I sincerely mean no offense but I am not in the least interested in "Christianity" as I have seen it practiced. I do not believe that a human sacrifice is necessary to alleviate my sin. I do not believe in the afterlife. I believe that the Bible is a wonderful book combining fable, history and philosophy. The fables (parables) are there as a teaching tool and the miraculous events are simply the attempts of simple non-scientific people to describe events that would be explanable if they occured today. And yes..I have read the Bible extensively and often dumbfound my Christian friends with my knowledge of scripture.

I appreciate your efforts but I'm fine and totally happy with my religious choices. I suggest that you apply your well meaning efforts to getting the Christian house in order. If you could cast out the scoundrels in the bunch, you would have a damn fine religion.

spiderman2 wrote:"Would you think the first men on the moon would be able to return on earth if the people responsible don't hold some scienctific facts that are usually unknown to ordinary people? We true Christians hold some "Christian facts" ourselves that sadly can't be shared to the "natural man" that easily. "

Um, except that of course the science behind the moon landings is openly available, observable, repeatable, verifiable by experiment, and demonstrated by basic physical laws that can be explained to anyone.

As compared to your secret, mystic, hateful nonsense which is none of the above.

Autonomous wrote "much evidence is lacking that this individual ever lived, much less arose from the dead. "

I can't blame you if that is your belief. Would you think the first men on the moon would be able to return on earth if the people responsible don't hold some scienctific facts that are usually unknown to ordinary people? We true Christians hold some "Christian facts" ourselves that sadly can't be shared to the "natural man" that easily.

You see how hard I try doing it but many people just can't get it.

Robin Edgar....

I'm a working class biker. For 25 I years I have been a practicing UU in 3 different cities. I have held leadership positions in each church along side academics who easily make 3 times what I make.

I am welcomed, accepted, loved and no one tries to change me. We have at least 20-30% of our members that are lower income and working class.
We are a Liberal group and if you are a practicing Republican, you would most-likely not feel a part of us because of your likely worldview.

Maybe you need to start a free-market, conservative Ayn Rand church that allows religious diversity with capitalist-conservative politics.

Spidey - at least we're quite sure the Buddha lived and died.

As to the life, death, and supernatural resurrection of the 'savior' you allude to, much evidence is lacking that this individual ever lived, much less arose from the dead.

And don't confuse religion with politics and governments - unless of course you're equating rightwing republicans with fundamentalist Christianity ..... then you would have a point.

Autonomous wrote " (Buddhism)A superior philosophy in every way, in my personal opinion. "

Buddha's flesh and bones are still in his grave. And followers of Buddhism are easily swayed to communism (China, Cambodia, Vietnam, North Korea).

Robin Edgar - I suggest Buddhism for your next adventure in religion. A superior philosophy in every way, in my personal opinion.

I accidentally submitted the post below before entering my personal information.

Actually I do preach on Sundays in my own special way Autonomous. One insightful U*U minister described this "preaching" as my "alternative spiritual practice".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9K5xpWrg_I

I am by no means the only person to have had a bad experience with the U*U church, in fact it is called the "Church of the Revolving Door" for a reason. . . There are no more mainstream churches that would supports my particular convictions without me having to adhere to dogma that I don't believe in. Unitarian*Universalism is the one existing religion that I know of that, if U*Us actually practiced what they preach (instead of making a total mockery of their claimed principles and ideals on an ongoing basis) I should be able to fit in without compromise.

:If you begin to have problems with other congregations, you might want to engage in some inner soul searching for the cause.

Yes, of course. . . I'm responsible for the intolerant and abusive behavior of Rev. Ray Drennan, various other intolerant and abusive U*Us, and the fact that most other U*Us who are aware of their anti-religious intolerance and bigotry have abjectly failed, and even obstinately refused, to responsibly redress the injustices and abuses that I have brought to their attention over the years. No doubt you believe that victims of clergy sexual misconduct committed by U*U ministers need to do some inner soul searching as to why they brought that victimization upon themselves as well. . . Maybe former Canadian Prime Minister Pierre Elliot Trudeau needs to do some inner soul searching to determine why it was that Rev. Ray Drennan offensively attacked that his state funeral was a his Roman Catholic rite in the Montreal Gazette. . . Sorry Autonomous, take your victim blaming somewhere else. I don't need it nor do any other victims of diverse U*U injustices and abuses.

Linda G. wrote "If people like you are going to Heaven, I'll take my chances in Hell."

Now we know why the Lord speak in parables. Some people can't stand staring at the light directly.

Between eating biscuits and "hard meat" preaching, they would rather eat biscuits as their stairway to heaven.

"My yoke is easy and my burden is light".

They would rather burn than carry that very light load. How stupid. Very stupid.

"Iam the Way, the TRUTH and the Life; NO MAN cometh unto the Father (Heaven) BUT BY ME."

Isn't bizarre how people like Spidey can somehow simultaneously believe in a good and loving god and yet presume to act on his behalf like complete and utter jerks? What kind of god would have a cretin like that for a representative?

Not one I would worship.

The attack on the Unitarians was political not religious.

Robin Edgar - do you preach on Sundays? Sounds like you've been on a pulpit (or at least a soapbox) a time or two yourself.

Apparently you had a bad experience with the UU church - get over it and move on over to a more mainstream church that supports your particular convictions. There are plenty of them out there to choose from.

If you begin to have problems with other congregations, you might want to engage in some inner soul searching for the cause.

Spiderman2 might invite you over to his Pentacostal church for some downhome testifying if you play your cards right.

Spiderman2:
If people like you are going to Heaven, I'll take my chances in Hell.

Arminius wrote "Spidey is a case unto himself, and is apparently hopeless. I have encouraged him many times to take to heart the true teachings of Jesus, but he apparently has never even heard of our Lord."

Arminius, try Parrott's advise : "It would be better for your faith,whatever it is, on the whole, if you would just be quiet."

You're always like an unthinking banging cymbal. And you know what? Cymbals can only communicate with another cymbal like Parrott. You guys never think. The way you use your head is like banging it.

Both of you, continue with your math and the next time your teacher teaches you that 1+1=3, believe it and keep quiet.

Doomsday is just around the corner. And it's MAN-MADE. Stupidity will make it happen.

Think about this. Why are animals not given the ability to speak? The answer is they would just be like banging cymbals.

You two got brains. Please use them, would you?

Arminius, I regret to have to inform you that the U*U community is by no means "friends to all" as you might wish. Try being an "out" Republican in almost any U*U community and see how friendly and welcoming U*Us are. In fact, even Episcopalians are likely to be made to feel considerably less than welcome in "Humanist" dominated U*U "Welcoming Congregations". U*Us can be, and are, far from friendly to a variety of kinds of people. Come to think of it. . . Try being poor, with nothing more than a high school education, and see just how welcome you are in any number of U*U "churches".

Marian Parrott might want to read the New Testament thoroughly before suggesting Jesus Christ as a model of humility and civility. Anyone who knows what he is reported to have said is aware that he was ready, willing, and able to be more than a little bit rude at times. Indeed he was quite capable of being physically violent on occasion.

As far as "narrow and bigoted views" go, you can hear some preached from the pulpit by U*U ministers on any given Sunday in too many U*U churches, to say nothing of being spouted by many U*Us on any other day of the week. Just because a religious group suffers some kind of tragedy does not place them beyond valid criticism. If U*Us, including U*U ministers like Rev. Lynn Thomas Strauss, try to capitalize on the Knoxville tragedy for PR purposes, to say nothing of marketing purposes, by pretending that U*Uism is so much better than other religions they can be taken to task for their hypocrisy. It's part of a free and responsible search for the truth. . .

Autonomous, you might want to autonomously do some research, or what U*Us might call a free and responsible search for truth and meaning, before making statements based on unfounded assumptions and personal prejudices. According to news reports the shooter Jim David Adkisson apparently hated Christianity as much as he hated liberalism. Most ironically Jim Adkisson would have found his anti-Christian intolerance and bigotry being tacitly condoned, endorsed, and even actively supported in a good many U*U "churches". Adkisson would actually have found himself to be quite welcome amongst the intolerant fundamentalist atheist faction of "Humanist" U*Us. It would seem that Jim Adkisson selected U*Us as his enemies based on his own political convictions more than his religious convictions. Adkisson actually had a fair number of like-minded friends and fellow-travellers amongst Unitarian*Universalists when it came to his religious beliefs or perhaps I should say his anti-Christian bad attitude - a hard but sorry truth. . .

parrott.central@gmail.comMarian Parrott:

No problem, I'm very glad we got this straightened out. It upsets me no end when someone like yourself seems to be offended by something I said.

Spidey is a case unto himself, and is apparently hopeless. I have encouraged him many times to take to heart the true teachings of Jesus, but he apparently has never even heard of our Lord. He is mired totally in Revelation and the darker parts of the OT, and is apparently a minion of Jerry Falwell's church.

Robin Edgar is well known on UU-related internet sites. He had a negative experience with a particular UU congregation and has since spent a great deal of energy campaigning against UUism. So view what he says in that light.

Rev. Strauss, thank you for the description of the ceremony. I'm impressed at the way the whole community came together in just one week to make the church a holy place again. I'm thinking of everyone there as they walk the long road of grief and recovery.

Arminius-my apologies. I misinterpreted what you said. Spiderman-I am sorry, but you are giving Christianity a bad name ( or whatever branch you belong to, which is not clear-you appear to despise Catholics and others). It would be better for your faith,whatever it is, on the whole, if you would just be quiet. A little humility, and civility, would perhaps make you more effective-I suggest Jesus Christ as your model of these traits.

I have attended a number of UU churches and all I can say is that some of you apparently view a refusal to agree with narrow and bigoted views as intolerance. In any case, to spew hatred on a grieving person or group is beneath contempt, as well as un-Christian. Read the Good Samaritan story.

SR I have attended a U*U "church" and gotten to know the people there all too well. . .

Just Google the Unitarian Church of Montreal.

I have also seen plenty of evidence for the kind of anti-religious intolerance and bigotry that I am talking about throughout the U*U World. It is not a matter of a few isolated incidents. It is quite common, and those U*Us who do not engage in it often turn a blind eye to it and condone it, if not outright endorse it. Ditto for various other U*U injustices, abuses and hypocrisy.

I am not impugning *everyone* of any faith because of the actions of a few individuals but when most members of a faith accept certain injustices, abuses and hypocrisy without speaking out against them or taking action to deal with them it does not reflect well on whatever faith may condone such things.

I obviously do not believe that *every* U*U is an anti-religious bigot just because it would appear that an anti-religious bigot may be running for President of the UUA, however it still says something about U*Us and U*Uism more generally when a candidate for President of the UUA can say what Rev. Peter Morales said in his "stump speech" with virtually no criticism from his fellow U*Us. Rev. Peter Morales is by no means the only U*U saying such things, he is not even the worst, yet he and those even more outspoken than him are given carte blanche by the UUA and U*U "churches" and many individual U*Us.

The TRUTH hurts and oftentimes it will offend those who live in lies. That's the main reason they crucified Jesus Christ.

1+1=3. Somebody has to say that that is wrong. If your answer is 3 (the case of Arminius), it is just normal that he be offended.

Offended or in other words, exposed.

Sorry for the previous choice of word (shamed).

I would consider the person who would correct my math as the REAL FRIEND. More so if it's not math but a matter of Heaven and Hell.

Hi, Athena,

Good reply to Spidey.

I can see here that you are right - the UU community are friends to all. As Pagans seem to be also! And as are many Episcopal parishes, mine included.

The TRUTH hurts and oftentimes it will offend those who live in lies. That's the main reason they crucified Jesus Christ.

1+1=3. Somebody has to say that that is wrong. If your answer is 3 (the case of Arminius), it is just normal that he be offended.

Offended or in other words, SHAMED.

Stay classy, Spidey. Keep taking advantage of people's pain to push your own narrow view of faith. If someone had come into YOUR house of worship and started shooting people, I'd like to see you act like your namesake and protect the children, just like those UU people did. No, you'd probably cower behind a pew and let someone else tackle the crazy person.

Lynn, I apologize on behalf of On Faith at Spidey and JJ's tacky behavior. We all grieve with you and your church. As a Pagan, we know that we have no better friends than the UU community.

interesting. Ya Ya Yo Monsa Mono's!

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Arminius wrote "Spidey posted some time back a post calling the Holy Eucharist 'Holy Feces'."

Nobody can make God into a biscuit. The people who are doing it are the ones who are blasphemous. If they treat it as holy (the biscuit, not the ceremony), then they should also treat their feces as holy.

It's normal for false teachers to twist facts so they wound sound "convincing" and "truthful".

Anonymous:

Thanks for trying to remove offensive posts. I know that my post to Spidey could be counted as offensive, so mea culpa. But he offends me, and he offends many others. JJ, of course, is the worst. He has spammed at least 5 blogs here in On Faith in the past day or so. He continually attacks me and others, and should be banned for life.

However, I have no hope that On Faith will do anything.

There is only one person in the history of mankind who died and after 3 days rose again. Not only that, he also foretold that event to happen by reminding the people of the story of Jonah inside the whale's belly 3 days and 3 nights.

Baptism by immersion which he and his followers practiced was an illustration of His forthcoming resurrection.

What this person say will be the YARDSTICK on JUDGMENT DAY.

"Iam the Way , the TRUTH and the Life; NO MAN cometh unto the Father (Heaven) BUT BY ME".

IF UUs don't believe this, it's because they are all LOST and on their way to HELL.

Salvation by other means is a lost case.

Arminius is a fine example of how people become if his salvation is based on man's perceived "good works". It stinks just like the person who's running to be president of UU (Mr. Morales).

The Unitarian Church has a long and well established history in the USA. It is Universalist in it's creed, and has been supported in our early history by many of the Founding Fathers, who were Deists - but were not trinitarians.

Within a couple of generations, we have Ralph Waldo Emerson and Henry David Thoreau also supporting the UU church - they were the authors of the Transcendentalist movement and were among direct representatives of our early American genius. Many of our early thinkers were sympathetic to the UU philosophy.

The UU Church is all inclusive, where most Christian churches are exclusive - UU proclaims the right and the responsibility of each individual to find a Supreme Being or an Absolute power in their own way, and within their own personal framework. They do not promote the Jesus cult, and this is where they find their enemies.

That they would be unpopular in the South is no mystery. This is the land of Protestantism and fundamentalism - this is the Bible belt. How this murdering maniac found his way to a UU church is probably no mystery.

He was more than likely raised as a Baptist fundamentalist and hated the universalist message of the UU church.

Yes he was a crazed individual, but he selected his 'enemies' based on his own religious history -and this should not be doubted - a hard but sorry truth.

Robin Edgar:

There are individual people in *any* religion who don't live up to the ideals of that religion. Would you impugn *everyone* of that faith because of those individuals? Or because one of them runs for office? Do you believe everyone in America is a racist because David Duke ran for President?

And yes, some UU congregations are majority white, or even mostly white. My congregation is, for instance. But I have seen those congregations welcome new people from EVERY background -- different countries, races, religions, etc. -- with open arms.

So don't knock it until you've attended a UU congregation and gotten to know the people there.

On Faith - and once again, you're allowing offensive posts that promote racism, genderism, ad hominum attacks on gays, as well as direct attacks on individual posters - and the use of extremely foul language to go uncensored.

What's up with the monitoring system here?

This is an official complaint and action is expected.

Quite regrettably Rev. Lynn Thomas Strauss' preaching here is not matched in practice by many individual Unitarian*Universalists aka U*Us, some U*U churches, and the UUA. It may well be that the Tennessee Valley congregation has "always stood up for equality, diversity, and religious liberty" but other U*U congregations do not. Many Unitarian*Universalists can't deal with differences of opinion and belief, be they religious beliefs, political ideologies, or otherwise. If people of different colors are so valued by Unitarian*Universalists why is it that the so-called U*U World is overwhelmingly white? Judging by their words and actions not all U*Us believe that all people have worth and dignity. In fact U*Us can and do attack and degrade the worth and dignity of various people or groups, including "other" religious groups. Some U*Us seem to revel in it. . .

If Unitarian*Universalists have often been marginalized within the larger faith community it might be because U*Us often marginalize that larger faith community themselves. . . Anti-Christian and more broadly anti-religious intolerance and bigotry is a serious problem withing the U*U "faith". Believe it or not, one of the two candidates for the next President of the UUA, Rev. Peter Morales, wrote off Judaism, Christianity, and Islam and unspecified other religions as "obsolete religions, created for another time" that "contribute to the darkness" of ignorance, prejudice, hatred, injustice, and various other evils in his speech announcing his candidacy for President of the UUA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvTP5mFyeZg

If such anti-religious rhetoric does not constitute building walls, high brick walls, between Unitarian*Universalism and different faiths and denominations (dare I say "obsolete religions"?) I don't know what does. . . Rev. Morales presented the "tiny, declining, fringe religion" known as U*Uism as possessing the potential to become "the religion of our time" by presenting the three Abrahamic religions, and presumably most other religions, in their worst possible light. To my knowledge not one single Unitarian*Universalist U*U called Rev. Peter Morales on his very thinly veiled religious intolerance. Unfortunately this kind of putting down of Christianity and other theistic religions is all too common within the U*U "faith", particularly amongst the fundamentalist atheist aka Atheist Supremacist faction of U*U "Humanists" to which it would appear that Rev. Peter Morales belongs.

Too many Unitarian*Universalists are themselves guilty of building high and well-maintained walls between themselves and other religions and denominations. Apparently these U*Us believe that good walls make good neighbors. . . It was not Unitarian*Universalists who temporarily tore down those walls following the Knoxville shooting. According to Rev. Lynn Thomas Strauss' own testimony here, it was members of those *other* "obsolete religions" who brought those walls of religious separation tumbling down. If it was "a kind of miracle" it was a miracle of the grace and the human spirit of Presbyterians who took in U*U children as they ran from the gunman, Baptists who brought food everyday, Jews who lit candles for U*Us and attended their vigil, Muslims who prayed for U*Us, and the Quakers and the Catholics and the Episcopalians who brought flowers and peace doves for U*Us.

The Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church in Knoxville may well be an exemplary U*U congregation that stands head and shoulders above other U*U congregations in living up to U*U principles, I am not in a position to judge it, nor would I do so at this time even if I had good reason to do so; but many individual Unitarian*Universalists, including at least one candidate for President of the UUA. . . and plenty of less than exemplary U*U congregations have much to learn from what happened in Knoxville, including how the members of those "obsolete religions" that too many U*Us build walls against responded with empathy, grace and compassion following this tragic shooting.

Marian Parrott:

I can understand that you were offended by my post, and apologize to you for this offense. If you really want to know how I feel about this blog, please see my earlier post, the first one here.

Spiderman2 has spread nothing but hatred on these blogs. Yes, I know, I should forgive him and try to reason with him. I have tried, as have others. I am Episcopal, liberal. Spidey posted some time back a post calling the Holy Eucharist 'Holy Feces'. At that point I declared war.

With respect,

Arminius

I am so very proud to be a Unitarian Universalist after reading this wonderful essay. There is so much hate and injustice in the world, I am so thankful to be a part of a denomination that stands on the side of love.

I was much moved by the Rev. Strauss's writing on the love and unity experienced by the Knoxville church. Then I read the horrifying and revolting comments of JJ and Arminius, which tell me that there is an abundance of haters out there, many of them prepared to kill. This is truly sickening. Rev Strauss's experience demonstrates the decency and kindness of most people. Why must we be held hostage to hate? And yes, WHY can't the moderators clean up this garbage?? It only feeds the fires burning inside these hateful people- and that is what hell is really all about.

Spidey,

You are one sick puppy to take such obvious joy out of the slaughter of innocents.

Maybe I should read that strange book, Revelation, because you certainly seem like a minion of the antichrist.

Take your blasphemy elsewhere. And see a shrink.

A preacher of false religion is like a person standing in the center of the plaza urging people to come with him/her to hell in the guise of sending them to heaven.

It's a pity that those people died of gunshot wounds but it's more terrible to think that those people will go to hell because of this FALSE PREACHER.

A preachers of false religion is like a person standing in the center of the plaza urging people to come with him/her to hell in the guise of sending them to heaven.

It's a pity that those people died of gunshot wounds but it's more terrible to think that those people will go to hell because of this FALSE PREACHER.

Rev. Strauss, thank you for your courage to minister there, and for the beautiful hopeful thoughts you shared here. I wish you and TVUUC healing and hope.

Jennifer O. (a UU from Community Church of NY)

WILL SOMEONE - THE MODERATOR PERHAPS - PLEASE REMOVE JJ'S SPAM FROM THIS BLOG AND ALL THE OTHERS HE HAS POLLUTED? I AM VERY TIRED OF HIS AD HOMINEM ATTACKS ON ME.

BUT, OF COURSE, YOU WON'T DO THIS, IN SPITE OF YOUR PLEDGE TO REMOVE OFFENSIVE POSTS.

I can't match the eloquence the article, so I won't even try. It was very moving.

Lynn,
I am a UU in San Antonio TX. We held a combined vigil of the 1st UU church and the Community UU church on Wednesday and then Sunday; CUUC had a special chalice lighting and chose as our service topic - what do we do when our values are attacked. Since I am the DRE at CUUC, I don't know how the discussion went. Our small RE class has made some cards and one of our older members made some cranes that I will send on to TVUUC and Westside this week.
Thank you for this article. It is nice to know that the church has been rededicated We too, found that our vigil was well attended by members of other faiths.
Glenna Jones-Kachtk

Lynn,

Your words have moved this old guy to tears. America grieves with all of you, and hopes that this horror will never come to pass again.

I am Episcopalian, a liberal one. I have read the Principles of your church and agree with every one.

Let us hope and pray that the coming together of so many religious groups to help in this tragedy will continue.