Who rushes to Good Deeds in the USA?

Why do all the Charitable Organizations Keep struggling to feed the poor? The Poor keep growing, as the Population skyrockets. Did God Create Humans for Dying, 'in the beginning'?

Does God hold our Human Sin against us? Why do Human Brothers/Sisters Hate each other? What is a God Sin, a Brother/Sister Sin? Unequal Sharing of the Resources, for All Life on Earth?

Adam and Eve had Equal Birth 'in the beginning'. They become Unequal, when the Male and the Female lost and their Equality and Virginity. Why is the Female blamed for the Original Sin?

Why did the Male make the Female Reproduce Humans, when God made Humans Supernaturally? Today Our High Tech Science 'does Know how' to Reproduce Humans supernaturally, besides in the Female Womb.

Instead, Fallen Humans made Nuclear Bombs, to Kill all this Fallen Life they Reproduced. Why?

We do make thrones up in the air, airplanes, etc., and fiery chariots, shuttles, and Spaceships like God. God, a person was seen, sitting upon thrones in the air, and coming out of fiery pillars of cloud and fire, when they landed on a mountain.

God also walked, and talked with Humans, face to face, like Abraham and Moses. God was not a Spirit 'Being', but a Living Human Being. The Living Peace God, was our High Tech Science Colonizing Human Ancestors. The Living Killer God was the High Tech Noah/Atlantis Society.

Until we Accept who God is, Human or Spirit, Humans will keep on Killing and Starving our Over-Reproduced Body Birth Brothers/Sisters of Life on Earth. Fallen Humans will destroy All Life on Earth, with our Pollution and Nuclear Bombs.

Charity on Earth 'is' the Crumbs from the Rich Man's Table. Our Starving Human Brothers/Sisters are still dying. Is this for Love of God, and our Brothers/Sisters of Life? Or for Greed?

I find it very odd that Random House refused to publish the book when there was obviously a lot of buzz about it. Such controversies tend to boost sales, don't they?

A bomb to the east of the Algerian capital, Algiers, has killed 43 people and injured a further 38, the interior ministry has said.

The attack took place at a paramilitary police training school at Issers, about 60km (40 miles) east of the capital, the ministry said.

News reports described the attack as a suicide bombing.

BBC news, August 19 2008

A husband who constantly beat up his young wife and treated her as a 'slave' has been told he will be jailed.

Sania Bibi, 20, arrived in Britain from Pakistan following an arranged marriage to Haroon Akhtar and was forced to work 17-hour days cooking, cleaning and washing clothes for his family.

Her violent husband and his domineering mother Zafia Bibi, 50, threatened to shoot the terrified bride in the head if she did not follow their orders.

The victim told St Albans Crown Court she was attacked at least twice a day by her husband, with his mother egging him on.

On one occasion he threw her down the stairs after his mother complained she had not been doing her chores properly.

Her mother-in-law threatened that she would be sent back to Pakistan and shot in the head, as she was of no use to the family.

Akhtar, 28, was today convicted of five counts of actual bodily harm. The mother and son were also found guilty of causing fear of violence through harassment.

Daily Mail, August 19 2008

Muslim men treat their wives as slaves. How anyone would want to become a muslim is beyond my comprehension.

PAKISTAN - A bomb blast ripped through a hospital on Tuesday in a northwestern Pakistani town that has been plagued by sectarian violence, killing at least 20 people, police said.

The explosion happened as Shiite Muslims gathered to protest over the death of a man in a suspected sectarian attack in the troubled town of Dera Ismail Khan, provincial police spokesman Riaz Ahmed said.

'A Shiite salesman was fatally wounded in an attack at a grocery store and was brought to the city's district hospital, when there was a blast in the emergency ward,' Mr Ahmed said.

'The bodies are being evacuated, the dead included civilians and policemen.

It is not clear if the blast was a suicide attack,' he said.

He did not have an immediate death toll but senior local administration official Mohsin Shah said 20 people were killed.

Another police official speaking on condition of anonymity said the incident could be linked to sectarian violence.

-- AFP, August 19 2008

Muslims killing muslims. Muslims are violent people. Period. If they are not killing infidels, they are killing themselves. They have no other pursuits.

More than one billion muslims have not achieve anything of note in science or technology.

In sports, more than one billion muslims have won only about two gold medals in the Beijing Olympics.

However, in the field of terrorism, muslims are the undisputed number one.

Actions speak louder than words.

In many years of discussing Islam with Muslims, non-Muslims, converts etc. Here is a very brief but precise observation.

1. Muslims (the ones I grew up with - my family etc.) typically are good people; without much detail, they possess all the attributes of good humans. however they don't tolerate any "insult" to islam, there are only certain "good" questions you may ask and we all know what those are.

2. There are many "radical/extremist" in muslim societies. That being said, a person like Mr. Somali here is quite typical in our societies. They are tolerated and sometimes many of them together can be dangerous to the normal Muslim folk. However their views are never challenged openly and forcefully, that in itself shows that there is really no radical or extremist in Islam - the ideology of Islam is simple and always the same; violent. Typically these folks are responsible for the laws and execution of those laws in Muslim societies. For example, the Blasphemy law of Pakistan only became law when these folks took over the ruling of Pakistan - Zia-ul-Haq and post Zia. Everyone knows in Pakistan that the Blasphemy law is used by many Muslims as a tool to eliminate their enemies - usually and mostly non-Muslims or Shiias.

4. Muslims invent many good deeds that Mohammed supposedly did; they can also vehemently deny all the bad deeds that are documented in the same sources they quote his good deeds from.

5. Many of the so-called "benevolent" wars that Mohammed fought when scrutinized by secular sources draw attention to the violent nature of Islam and its founder Mohammed. Much explaining-away is done to emphasize that the violent nature of Mohammed was either justified or simply did not exist or best; the Jews invented it! They simply ignore his wives and his unforgiving nature.

6. Converts especially white converts who love to call themselves reverts are the biggest inventors of a modern "fangless" Islam. They have essentially invented a new Islam, one I fondly refer to as ChirstoIslam. This is the islam that traditional Muslims love to quote, they love to quote Karen Armstrong or that Georgetown guy John Espo..something. They are essentially the worst perpetrators of lies and propaganda. They are doing Islam a disfavor by inventing their own Euro-PC interpretations of Islam that really don't exist.

5. I love the internet, itn't it great! This is the only way we can challenge the following;
Jews/Christians: Thou shalt not KILL.
Muslims: KILL the one who insults islam and its prophet!

Arif

Usama tells Halozel:

"But Islam is NOT a leap backwards in human progress. Islam is the Way of the FUTURE for humanity. The ideological guidance of Islam does not serve a single nation above all others, like capitalism and the New World Order serves America and then Europe/Australia over all others."

Capitalism in politics and commerce is the equivalent of the survival of the fittest in biology. To compete you must adapt. Those countries who are prospering are those with open minds and who are willing to adapt and evolve. Muslims are languishing and lagging behind everyone else because their theology rules its societies , and both are fossilized in the 7th Century Arabian desert culture. Turkey which broke out of that box is beginning to prosper.

Usama, Usama, Usama,

Again:

You indeed suffer from a bad case of the Three B Sydrome, i.e. Bred, Born, and Brainwashed in Islam.

Scroll down and you will find a copy of the Five Step Program for Removing the Ills of Islam.

Also, I don't remember seeing your answers to the survery/poll regarding your Islamic beliefs. Once again:

Do you believe :

1. In "pretty/ugly wingie"/paranormal thingies?

2. That the long-dead Arab did actually talk to the "pretty Gabriel" in the "Gabe" cave and therein received the warmongering and anti-female words now listed in the koran?

3. That Sunnis are superior to Shiites in all aspects of life?

4. That Islam is perfect and the koran inherently condones no sin even though the 24/7 800 year-old feud between Sunnis and Shiites give significant credence that suicides, assassinations, maiming, and murder are condoned by the koran?

5. That having multiple wives also gives significant credence to the sins of lust and polygamy?

6. That the condoned treatment of these wives gives credence that the koran allows the sins of anger and greed?

7. And that Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s book, Infidel, is her autobiography and that in the paperback issue, p. 47 the statement:

"Some of the Saudi women in our neighborhood were regularly beaten by their husbands. You could hear them at night. Their screams resounded across the courtyards. "No! Please! By Allah!" is the truth?????

“Thou shalt call me, My father; and shalt not turn away from me.”

Amos 5
Seek him that maketh the seven stars and Orion, and turneth the shadow of death into the morning, and maketh the day dark with night: that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: the Lord is his name:

After these things the word of the Lord came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.
And Abram said, Lord God, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?
And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.
And, behold, the word of the Lord came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

“Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars”
“if thou be able to number them”
“he said unto him, So shall thy seed be”
“And he believed in the Lord”
“and he counted it to him for righteousness”

And the angel of the Lord called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the Lord, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

“That in blessing I will bless thee”
“in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven”
“as the sand which is upon the sea shore”
“thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies”
“And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed”

“THAT IN BLESSING I WILL BLESS THEE”
“IN MULTIPLYING I WILL MULTIPLY THY SEED AS THE STARS OF THE HEAVEN”

And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

“My spirit shall not always strive with man”
“his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.”

And Moses went and spake these words unto all Israel.
And he said unto them, I am an hundred and twenty years old this day; I can no more go out and come in: also the Lord hath said unto me, Thou shalt not go over this Jordan.
The Lord thy God, he will go over before thee, and he will destroy these nations from before thee, and thou shalt possess them: and Joshua, he shall go over before thee, as the Lord hath said.

“I am an hundred and twenty years old this day”
“I can no more go out and come in”

The Lord shall open unto thee his good treasure, the heaven to give the rain unto thy land in his season, and to bless all the work of thine hand: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, and thou shalt not borrow.
And the Lord shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the Lord thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them:

“The Lord shall open unto thee his good treasure”
“the heaven to give the rain unto thy land in his season”
“to bless all the work of thine hand”
“the Lord shall make thee the head”
“thou shalt be above only”

Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth.
My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:
Because I will publish the name of the Lord: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.
He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Then said the Lord unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.

“I will rain bread from heaven for you”
“the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day”
“I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no”

Then I will give you rain in due season, and the land shall yield her increase, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit.
And your threshing shall reach unto the vintage, and the vintage shall reach unto the sowing time: and ye shall eat your bread to the full, and dwell in your land safely.
And I will give peace in the land, and ye shall lie down, and none shall make you afraid: and I will rid evil beasts out of the land, neither shall the sword go through your land.

“I will give you rain in due season”
“the trees of the field shall yield their fruit”
“sowing time: and ye shall eat your bread to the full, and dwell in your land safely”
“I will give peace in the land”
“I will rid evil beasts out of the land, neither shall the sword go through your land”

And it shall come to pass, if ye shall hearken diligently unto my commandments which I command you this day, to love the Lord your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul,
That I will give you the rain of your land in his due season, the first rain and the latter rain, that thou mayest gather in thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil.

“the first rain and the latter rain”

Then Moses heard the people weep throughout their families, every man in the door of his tent: and the anger of the Lord was kindled greatly; Moses also was displeased.
And Moses said unto the Lord, Wherefore hast thou afflicted thy servant? and wherefore have I not found favour in thy sight, that thou layest the burden of all this people upon me?
Have I conceived all this people? have I begotten them, that thou shouldest say unto me, Carry them in thy bosom, as a nursing father beareth the sucking child, unto the land which thou swarest unto their fathers?

“Moses said unto the Lord”
“Wherefore hast thou afflicted thy servant”
“wherefore have I not found favour in thy sight”
“that thou layest the burden of all this people upon me”
“Have I conceived all this people”
“have I begotten them, that thou shouldest say unto me”
“Carry them in thy bosom, as a nursing father beareth the sucking child”

“THAT IN BLESSING I WILL BLESS THEE”
“IN MULTIPLYING I WILL MULTIPLY THY SEED AS THE STARS OF THE HEAVEN”

Behold, I have set the land before you: go in and possess the land which the Lord sware unto your fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give unto them and to their seed after them.
And I spake unto you at that time, saying, I am not able to bear you myself alone:
The Lord your God hath multiplied you, and, behold, ye are this day as the stars of heaven for multitude.
The Lord God of your fathers make you a thousand times so many more as ye are, and bless you, as he hath promised you!

“The Lord your God hath multiplied you”
“ye are this day as the stars of heaven for multitude”

For thou hast said, My doctrine is pure, and I am clean in thine eyes.
But oh that God would speak, and open his lips against thee;
And that he would shew thee the secrets of wisdom, that they are double to that which is! know therefore that God exacteth of thee less than thine iniquity deserveth.

“My doctrine is pure”
“that he would shew thee the secrets of wisdom”
“that they are double to that which is”

And Samuel answered Saul, and said, I am the seer: go up before me unto the high place; for ye shall eat with me to day, and to morrow I will let thee go, and will tell thee all that is in thine heart.

“And Samuel answered”
“I am the seer”
“and will tell thee all that is in thine heart”

But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.

“the Lord said unto Samuel”
“the Lord looketh on the heart”

If we have forgotten the name of our God, or stretched out our hands to a strange God;
Shall not God search this out? for he knoweth the secrets of the heart.
Yea, for thy sake are we killed all the day long; we are counted as sheep for the slaughter.

“If we have forgotten the name of our God”
“or stretched out our hands to a strange God”
“Shall not God search this out”
“for he knoweth the secrets of the heart”
“we are counted as sheep for the slaughter”

“THAT IN BLESSING I WILL BLESS THEE”
“AS THE SAND WHICH IS UPON THE SEA SHORE”

And God gave Solomon wisdom and understanding exceeding much, and largeness of heart, even as the sand that is on the sea shore.
And Solomon's wisdom excelled the wisdom of all the children of the east country, and all the wisdom of Egypt.
For he was wiser than all men; than Ethan the Ezrahite, and Heman, and Chalcol, and Darda, the sons of Mahol: and his fame was in all nations round about.
And he spake three thousand proverbs: and his songs were a thousand and five.
And he spake of trees, from the cedar tree that is in Lebanon even unto the hyssop that springeth out of the wall: he spake also of beasts, and of fowl, and of creeping things, and of fishes.
And there came of all people to hear the wisdom of Solomon, from all kings of the earth, which had heard of his wisdom.

“Solomon wisdom and understanding exceeding much”
“largeness of heart, even as the sand that is on the sea shore.”
“Solomon's wisdom excelled the wisdom of all the children of the east country”
“and all the wisdom of Egypt”
“he spake of trees”
“the hyssop that springeth out of the wall”
“he spake also of beasts”
“and of fowl”
“and of creeping things”
“and of fishes”
“there came of all people to hear the wisdom of Solomon”

Geber the son of Uri was in the country of Gilead, in the country of Sihon king of the Amorites, and of Og king of Bashan; and he was the only officer which was in the land.
Judah and Israel were many, as the sand which is by the sea in multitude, eating and drinking, and making merry.
And Solomon reigned over all kingdoms from the river unto the land of the Philistines, and unto the border of Egypt: they brought presents, and served Solomon all the days of his life.

“in the land. Judah and Israel were many”
“as the sand which is by the sea in multitude”
“Solomon reigned over all kingdoms”
“they brought presents”
“served Solomon all the days of his life”

For thou hast said, My doctrine is pure, and I am clean in thine eyes.
But oh that God would speak, and open his lips against thee;
And that he would shew thee the secrets of wisdom, that they are double to that which is! know therefore that God exacteth of thee less than thine iniquity deserveth.

“My doctrine is pure”
“that he would shew thee the secrets of wisdom”
“that they are double to that which is”

Who giveth rain upon the earth, and sendeth waters upon the fields:
To set up on high those that be low; that those which mourn may be exalted to safety.
He disappointeth the devices of the crafty, so that their hands cannot perform their enterprise.
He taketh the wise in their own craftiness: and the counsel of the froward is carried headlong.
They meet with darkness in the daytime, and grope in the noonday as in the night.
But he saveth the poor from the sword, from their mouth, and from the hand of the mighty.
So the poor hath hope, and iniquity stoppeth her mouth.
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty:
For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole.
He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee.

“Who giveth rain upon the earth, and sendeth waters upon the fields”
“But he saveth the poor from the sword”
“from the hand of the mighty”
“So the poor hath hope, and iniquity stoppeth her mouth.”
“happy is the man whom God correcteth”
“therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty”
“For he maketh sore”
“bindeth up”
“he woundeth”
“his hands make whole”
“He shall deliver thee in six troubles”
“in seven there shall no evil touch thee”

“THAT IN BLESSING I WILL BLESS THEE”
“THY SEED SHALL POSSESS THE GATE OF HIS ENEMIES”
“the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty”

And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

“My spirit shall not always strive with man”
“his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.”

And Moses went and spake these words unto all Israel.
And he said unto them, I am an hundred and twenty years old this day; I can no more go out and come in: also the Lord hath said unto me, Thou shalt not go over this Jordan.
The Lord thy God, he will go over before thee, and he will destroy these nations from before thee, and thou shalt possess them: and Joshua, he shall go over before thee, as the Lord hath said.

“I am an hundred and twenty years old this day”
“I can no more go out and come in”

And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)
Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.
For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.

“Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples”
“the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty”
“Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled”
“the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas”
“For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry”
But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

“there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed”
“That it was needful to circumcise them”
“to command them to keep the law of Moses”
“Peter rose up, and said unto them”
“ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us”
“that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word”

At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the Lord; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the Lord, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.
In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given for an inheritance unto your fathers.
But I said, How shall I put thee among the children, and give thee a pleasant land, a goodly heritage of the hosts of nations? and I said, Thou shalt call me, My father; and shalt not turn away from me.
Surely as a wife treacherously departeth from her husband, so have ye dealt treacherously with me, O house of Israel, saith the Lord.
A voice was heard upon the high places, weeping and supplications of the children of Israel: for they have perverted their way, and they have forgotten the Lord their God.
Return, ye backsliding children, and I will heal your backslidings. Behold, we come unto thee; for thou art the Lord our God.
Truly in vain is salvation hoped for from the hills, and from the multitude of mountains: truly in the Lord our God is the salvation of Israel.
For shame hath devoured the labour of our fathers from our youth; their flocks and their herds, their sons and their daughters.
We lie down in our shame, and our confusion covereth us: for we have sinned against the Lord our God, we and our fathers, from our youth even unto this day, and have not obeyed the voice of the Lord our God.

“At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the Lord”
“all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the Lord”
“to the name of the Lord, to Jerusalem”
“Thou shalt call me, My father; and shalt not turn away from me.”

When the ear heard me, then it blessed me; and when the eye saw me, it gave witness to me:
Because I delivered the poor that cried, and the fatherless, and him that had none to help him.
The blessing of him that was ready to perish came upon me: and I caused the widow's heart to sing for joy.
I put on righteousness, and it clothed me: my judgment was as a robe and a diadem.
I was eyes to the blind, and feet was I to the Lame.
I was a father to the poor: and the cause which I knew not I searched out.
And I brake the jaws of the wicked, and plucked the spoil out of his teeth.
Then I said, I shall die in my nest, and I shall multiply my days as the sand.
My root was spread out by the waters, and the dew lay all night upon my branch.
My glory was Fresh in me, and my bow was renewed in my hand.
Unto me men gave ear, and waited, and kept silence at my counsel.
After my words they spake not again; and my speech dropped upon them.
And they waited for me as for the rain; and they opened their mouth wide as for the latter rain.
If I laughed on them, they believed it not; and the light of my countenance they cast not down.
I chose out their way, and sat chief, and dwelt as a king in the army, as one that comforteth the mourners.

“When the ear heard me, then it blessed me”
“when the eye saw me, it gave witness to me”
“The blessing of him that was ready to perish came upon me”
“I put on righteousness, and it clothed me”
“my judgment was as a robe and a diadem.”
“I was eyes to the blind, and feet was I to the Lame.”
“I was a father to the poor: and the cause which I knew not I searched out.”
“Then I said, I shall die in my nest, and I shall multiply my days as the sand”
“My root was spread out by the waters”
“the dew lay all night upon my branch”
“Unto me men gave ear, and waited, and kept silence at my counsel”
“And they waited for me as for the rain”
“I laughed on them, they believed it not”

Halozcel,
Its you who do not understand.
These nations which you name are deceptive concoctions, hybridizations designed to mislead and placate the fooled masses.
This is evident in the actual words and structures of their respective constitutions, their nationalist dogma, and their conceptual governing premises. Can there be a single tribe that rules the Arabian Pennisula, elevating a select number of tribes above the rest of the Muslim world?

Can nationalist, tribalist, racist concepts be institutionalized to determine a Muslim people's society?

If not, then how must such national governments rule EXCEPT by oppression and authoritarianism, which is the case today?

Sir, I presume you are a Turk, correct?
Mustapha Kemal usurped the authority of Turkey, betrayed his people, concocted a secular nationalist constitution, and used Orwellian governing practices supported by the British and Western powers.
It is well known that Kemal replaced the sayings and traditions of the Prophet Muhammad with his own Kemalist nationalist sayings. He erected his statues and planted his likeness everywhere. He controlled every aspect or society, in totalitarian fashion.
And after so many years, even after his death, the Kemalist ways served to remove Islam from generations of Turkish Muslims. Even communism became so widespread that the Turkish military actively encouraged the reeducation of the population to Islam to resist communism. But again, they had to resort to military dictatorships to continue the secular Kemalism.

This is the methodology of secularism democratic capitalism.

But Islam is NOT a leap backwards in human progress. Islam is the Way of the FUTURE for humanity. The ideological guidance of Islam does does not serve a single nation above all others, like capitalism and the New World Order serves America and then Europe/Australia over all others. As I mentioned before, the resources of the world are designated for all the participating world not just for a ruling elite, and not for mega corporations that play games to reap windfalls while 100s of millions suffer.

People think they control these powerful corporations that push for global trade structures that serve them above billions of people? No. The destruction of the earth's environment is not a result of Islam. Its a result of the secular democratic capitalist powers that seek private profit over the interests of the world, over the interests of humanity and life itself.

The now record numbers of slaves worldwide is NOT a result of Islam. Islam does not govern any land. Rather, its a result of the secular democratic capitalist world order. And those who follow this world leadership are experiencing these common trends.

I received an e-mail today about a Dr. Jack Wheeler.
It states that he says, that Obama is half White. And, his other half is mostly Arab, and only a small part of him is African Black.

Will this prove to the White Christian Right, that Obama should not be President? Whether they acknowledge their Racism, or not. I have Christian older White female friends, one who sent me this e-mail, who will not vote for Obama, because he is a Black Muslim.

Are Muslims Black or Brown, or? Are Christians White or Black, or? Where do all these Color ideas come from? Is there Proof about Obama?

We Know Obama's Mother and Grandparents were White, and was raised with Whites, so is he mostly White, with a mixture of Brown and a little Black?

His Genetics made him look Black. Many Blacks, with a White Parent look White. Does that make them White? When is Skin Color going to make Equal Human Beings? Ever?

Has Skin Color in Different Religions, set up the Last Days 'Arm'ageddon, in the Mid-East, with Nuclear Weapons. The Mid-East is where Surviving Humans landed after the Noah/Atlantis Planetary Flood.

What Color Humans landed after the Flood? White, Black, Brown, Yellow or Red? Humans migrated to All Parts of our Home Planet. Were there Saved Humans of All Colors, than just Noah and his family? What Color was Noah and his family? A mixture?

Did Heterosexual Body Birth make All the Colors of Humans, before the Flood? What Color were Adam and Eve? What Color were Cain and Abel, that made all Humans since by Body Birth?

What is the Definition of the Love of God, and the Love of our Brothers/Sisters of Life? Total Annihilation of All Colors of Human Life on our Home Planet? What Color Human will be Saved at Judgement Day? White Christians?

Apostate,

You ande Hirsi Ali precisely prove my point: the inventions and technology of the past 200 years did not originate in Western thinking. They originated in the continued development of science, engineering, chemistry, etc: endeavors NOT originating in any one thought but belonging to all humanity throughout time.

If you ever bothered to study any one of these endeavors' history, you will see that the respective professors teach that the particular studies reach back 100s, if not 1000s of years to different societies and cultures, including the Muslim world.

That being the case, there is no reason for the Muslim world to adopt Western values simply because the West and America want them to or because Muslims adopt this technology.

As the case is today, there is no nation in the world that implements the Islamic ruling system or economic system or follows Islam as an ideology.
All Muslim nations comply with Western secular leadership while attempting to partially implement segments of Islam haphazardly as it suits the ruling elite. This includes Iran which is actually very compliant with secular and western values and world leadership, much to their own suffering and hypocricy.

That is why there are growing movements in the Muslim world to return to Islam in an ideological capacity in order to govern our own nations according to Islam.
In the course of human events, given the past 50 years of Muslim dictatorships which the West has supported much to the suffering, decay, and oppression of the Muslim people resulting in the deplorable state of Muslim affairs, it has become the a growing public awareness that the Muslim world must throw off the yoke of the West and resume governance, sovereignty, and authority over our affairs and lives without foreign interference. This awareness is set to end the dozens of dictatorships which have served the West to dutifully. This awareness is not an inherit threat to the people of the world or to the West. It is only a self awareness, self determination, self actualization in the Muslim people.

But the West has built its global hegemony and dominance from the resources it has sponged and pilfered from the Muslim world: cheap oil and gas which has fueled its militaries and navy s for over 100 years. And while some people recognize a need for the West to be energy independent, the ruling elites of the West know this to be either too inconvenient, too expensive, or not yet a necessity as long as Muslim rulers like the Saudi family, Gulf emirates, et al continue their reigns. The Western option is always to support wholesale slaughter of an awakening Muslim populace to repress them, either by a dictator, or by some proxy force. Only if and when said ruler falls and another and another fall, will contingency plans for energy have to be seriously considered.

This is the world today. Until then, Western forces will continue to misguide the world with their ways even while Western and American world leaadership proves to be hazardous for the wellbeing of those who follow, as demostrated by the world food crises plaguing nations who have followed Western leadership, like Haiti, Egypt, West African nations and others.

Usama,

Where is that islamic UTOPIA which represents *islamic ruling system* ?

** Saudia doesnt represents *islamic ruling system* **
Islamic Republic of Iran doesnt as well.Niether UAE nor Afghanistan.

Is there any islamic country,among 58-60 ones,which represents *islamic ruling system* ?

No,Usama.Please,please see the Realities.
Islam is the name of Cult in Saudi Kingdom,nothing else.
Islam is the name of belief in Islamic Republic of Iran,not *Alice in Wonderland*.
Islam is the name of Ruling System in Afghanistan,not Utopia.

It is very sad to see how muslim women are regulary beaten in muslim majority countries. The police will also not give these women protection because it is said in the koran that wives are the property of their husbands who may deal with them as they please.

Why can't we get rid of Islam? I am sure the world would be a better place without it.

Hirsi Ali said
(Muslims) rely on the technological advances of the West while pretending to ignore their origin in Western thinking

And Usama retorts:
“Technology is a universal human achievement. It is particularly condescending, pretentious, and arrogant for Westerners to think they invented everything under the sun.”

Does that not prove that Ms Ali is telling it the way it is? This character besides proving her point tries to sow doubt as to who “invented everything under the sun”. In other words he wants to claim a share of the “inventions” to his ilk.

Usama, Usama, Usama,

You indeed suffer from a bad case of the Three B Sydrome, i.e. Bred, Born, and Brainwashed in Islam.

Scroll down and you will find a copy of the Five Step Program for Removing the Ills of Islam.

Also, I don't remember seeing your answers to the survery/poll regarding your Islamic beliefs. Once again:

Do you believe :

1. In "pretty/ugly wingie"/paranormal thingies?

2. That the long-dead Arab did actually talk to the "pretty Gabriel" in the "Gabe" cave and therein received the warmongering and anti-female words now listed in the koran?

3. That Sunnis are superior to Shiites in all aspects of life?

4. That Islam is perfect and the koran inherently condones no sin even though the 24/7 800 year-old feud between Sunnis and Shiites give significant credence that suicides, assassinations, maiming, and murder are condoned by the koran?

5. That having multiple wives also gives significant credence to the sins of lust and polygamy?

6. That the condoned treatment of these wives gives credence that the koran allows the sins of anger and greed?

7. And that Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s book, Infidel, is her autobiography and that in the paperback issue, p. 47 the statement:

"Some of the Saudi women in our neighborhood were regularly beaten by their husbands. You could hear them at night. Their screams resounded across the courtyards. "No! Please! By Allah!" is the truth?????

Concerned,
Technology is a universal human achievement. It is particularly condescending, pretentious, and arrogant for Westerners to think they invented everything under the sun and therefore they should be worshipped!

Hirsi Ali wants to restrict the idea of Islam in order to justify herself.

Democratic capitalism is an ideology. Its manmade.
It deals with the fundamental human questions with the secular compromise and its political system- democracy with imperialism- and its economic system- capitalism- emerge from this compromise.

Islam is a religion, but its also an ideology.Its from God and is based on God's revelation. It deals with the fundamental human questions with its doctrine: there is no god but God, and Muhammad is the Messenger of God. From this, emanate all of its systems, including political and economic systems.

The so called Clash of Civilizations fails to mention the ideological confrontation, conveniently so. America and its secular ilk like Hirsi Ali seek to shrink Islam to fit into the nice 'secular compromise' with which all the other religions have complied. Her language of 'human rights' and "democratic values" are really just code words for her and her ilks desire to redefine Islam to fit into secularized 'box'.

Despite all of her propaganda, Islam still has its own political and economic systems and ideological guidance.
Case in point, as her Neo Con allies are still wrestling with in their venture in Iraq: Islam calls for natural resources such as oil and gas to be public property NOT to be owned by a private individual.
Capitalism, free market, seeks to privatize everything, including water, air, ozone, and of course oil and gas. the American administrator of Iraq, J Paul Bremer, tried to privatize the Iraqi oil and gas reserves but to no avail. America is still trying to do this.

This, and Iraq is not an Islamic state, or representative of the Islamic ruling system. Neither is Saudi or the UAE etc.

From Ayaan Hirsi Ali's autobiography, "Infidel".

An excerpt:

"The kind on thinking I saw in Saudi Arabia and among the Brotherhood of Kenya and Somalia, is incompatible with human rights and liberal values. It preserves the feudal mind-set based on tribal concepts of honor and shame. It rests on self-deception, hyprocricy, and double standards. It relies on the technologial advances of the West while pretending to ignore their origin in Western thinking. This mind-set makes the transition to modernity very painful for all who practice Islam".

p. 347, paperback.

American Evangelical Christianity as propagated by American missionaries is considered by most of the world just as I described it: as a means of infiltration by American imperial interests.

China, Russia, and many other countries restrict American missionaries because they serve to undermine indigenous Christian churches and communities as well as other religious communities. Its well known that evangelical orgs wanted to invade Iraq right after the US troops.

The reality is: American evangelicalism does bring superior ways- it brings capitalism. As an American, I see how white Christian communities have failed to uplift their own black Christian brethren in urban and poor areas of America.
They have failed to uplifted Latino communities suffering from poverty, crime, and illiteracy. In fact, for both the Latino and African American communities, the high school graduation rates for males is below 50%. Meanwhile, crime has increased in both of these communities.

In the end, American Christian evangelicalism isn't bringing answers or solutions, its simply serving to disrupt and deconstruct the Muslim world so America can continue to fulfill its strategic interests in the region.

Over 90 per cent of muslims are illiterate and living in poverty. If not for Christian aid, millions of muslims will die of starvation everyday.

TEHRAN: The Iranian police force has come under criticism for its clampdown on women over their dress, an annual exercise that began over the weekend and has affected thousands of women.

Women here have been required by law since the 1979 Islamic revolution to cover their hair and wear long loose clothes to cover the shape of their body. The ideal dress is considered to be a black head-to-toe chador that covers all the body except for the hands and the face.

But many women defy the law and the regime has been engaged in a constant battle with them over what they can wear and how they should look.

The police have launched a clampdown every year at the beginning of the summer, because women start wearing fashionable and shorter coats and show more hair because of the heat.

Since the weekend, the police have been stopping women in major squares and at subway stations in Tehran to warn them over their appearance.

International Herald Tribune, April 26 2007

Why is Islam so bothered by what women wear but man are allowed to go bare-bodied.

A 37-year-old American businesswoman and married mother of three is seeking justice after she was thrown in jail by Saudi Arabia's religious police for sitting with a male colleague at a Starbucks coffee shop in Riyadh.

Yara, who does not want her last name published for fear of retribution, was bruised and crying when she was freed from a day in prison after she was strip-searched, threatened and forced to sign false confessions by the Kingdom's “Mutaween” police.

Times of London, February 7 2008

Why the disgusting religious police?? They behave more like perverts.

IPOH: It's 4am and three strangers barge into your house and search it. What would do you do?
A 28-year-old housewife, who found herself in this predicament last month, was speechless as they looked around her home, even checking the ceiling.

Eventually, Zuraida Zainul Abdin, who was breastfeeding her 3-month-old son, asked them who they were, but she was ignored.

They finally identified themselves as anti-vice officers from the religious department.

Zuraida yesterday served a 14-day notice on the Batu Gajah Religious Department on her intention to sue it for subjecting her to trauma and shame during the raid on July 25. She also wants to send the message that religious department officers cannot barge into homes without reason.

New Straits Times, August 15 2008

Why does Islam need the religious police.

Usama, muslims like yourself worship the devil.

Usama says:

"Why does American Enterprise Institute provide them sanctuary and patronage with millions of dollars and a global voice? Because they (Hirsi and Rushdie) all agree to continue to dismantle the Muslim world by dismantling Islam."

You got the cart in front of the horse. It is not Hirsi Ali and Salman Rushdie who are dismantling Islam. Those, as well as I, are only witnesses to its downfall. It is the technological advances in communications that is a light being shed on the darkness of your cult. And like darkness it is being vanquished by the light of knowledge. More and more people are learning about an ideology that is incompatible with the present time. The link below will give you a measure of how fast is its downfall.

http://www.formermuslims.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=972

Victoria, Victoria, Victoria,

Hmmm, time for everything religious except the important issue of your basic beliefs.

You recently confessed to believing in the paranormal, i.e. Moroni, Gabriel, fairies and tinkerbells.

But you still have not addressed the other important questions.

Once again:

2. That the long-dead Arab did actually talk to the "pretty Gabriel" in the "Gabe" cave and therein received the warmongering and anti-female words now listed in the koran?

3. That Sunnis are superior to Shiites in all aspects of life?

4. That Islam is perfect and the koran inherently condones no sin even though the 24/7 800 year-old feud between Sunnis and Shiites give significant credence that suicides, assassinations, maiming, and murder are condoned by the koran?

5. That having multiple wives also gives significant credence to the sins of lust and polygamy?

6. That the condoned treatment of these wives gives credence that the koran allows the sins of anger and greed?

7. And that Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s book, Infidel, is her autobiography and that in the paperback issue, p. 47 the statement:

"Some of the Saudi women in our neighborhood were regularly beaten by their husbands. You could hear them at night. Their screams resounded across the courtyards. "No! Please! By Allah!" is the truth?????

Thinkaboutit-

GO BACK AND READ IT AGAIN. August 15- @ 2:22PM
Due to the many posts, I cannot paste.
If you do not have the intelligence to discern a one word answer- I fear wasting many words on you are futile.

This is in response to a reply by a certain "ANONYMOUS" (which I cannot find again due to the deluge of posts on this thread). In your reply to my post that the sexual morals of Mohammed are suspect due to the large number of marriages he had and the questionable nature of some of these marriages. For example, I cited his marriage to a child, Aisha, his ex-daughter in law Zainab Bint Jahsh after "asking: his adopted son to divorce her, and to Safiyah Bint Huyeiy Ibn Akhtab after his army had killed her immediate family, including her husband and father.

In that post, I said that although other people in the history of other religions also married a lot (I mentioned Solomon as my example). They where never considered prophets (for example Solomon was a king) and that the prophets of usually warned them that their behavior would lead to problems, which they usually did. On the other hand, Mohammed was a "prophet" and therefore should have been above such matters, his behavior in this matter was worse than most. Further, he conveniently "received revelations" to legitimize his behavior. Thus we see that adoption only becomes illegal in Islam after Mohammed wishes to marry his daughter in law and asks his adopted son to divorce her. After being question by the community about the propriety of such a marriage, he conveniently received word from "God" that an adoption is not legal and thus the woman he wanted to marry was never his daughter in law. It is such manipulation of the so-called "word of God" to meet his worldly needs that makes one question his character.

Finally, regarding the issue of freedom of speech, you mention that the murder of Van Gogh is not typical of mainstream Islam, but fail to refer to the death sentence against Rushdie, the death threats against Greet, the banning of the book that this article is about, the violence and destruction caused by the Danish Mohammed cartoons and several other similar incidents. It seems that Islam responds to any challenge to its totalitarian believes with violence and censorship. Other issues, not related to this article or thread, are the Islamic stances on gender equality, the Islamic stance on freedom of religion (non-existent in Islamic law and in all countries where Muslims are the majority), the barbarity of Islamic Shariah law (a major part of the Islamic belief) such as cutting off peoples limbs for stealing, stoning for adultery etc.

In short, Islam, as understood by virtually all Islamic scholars and Muslims, is incompatible with modern democracy. This is not just the so-called "fundamentalist" faction, but mainstream Islam. In contrast, I have not seen any violent reaction to, for example, The Da Vince Code, which attacks Christian values, or any violent reaction from Jews when their religion is maligned in the newspapers of the Middle East. As a matter of fact, in recent times, a violent and medieval reaction to criticism of religion has only come from the Islamic camp.

I am all for dialogue, but the dialogue should be based on honesty. I will not whitewash what I see the failings of Islamic in the name of some abstract concept of dialogue. I will voice my opinion, that a lot of the current religiously inspired violence can be avoided my modernizing Islam.

Usama,

What was the religion of Asia minor (Turkey) before the Ottoman Turk (Muslim) conquest? What was Charles Martel doing in France? He was stopping a Muslim conquest attempt by Europe. I thank GOD that the conquest was stopped.

Usama,

You are so wrong again. If you want to see places that there is little freedom of religion go love in the Muslim world. Are you really an American or are you practicing deceit to promote Islam?

Again, Christianity is not the white man's religion it is for people from every nation (See Revelation 5:9). Jesus was Jewish and His ministry took place on the continent of Asia. There are more Christians in China then there are here. Personally, I think you never had a relationship with Jesus or you would not be talking like you are. going to church does not make one a Christian. I also think you are a Muslim who has rejected Jesus as the Son of God. The bible says that whoever rejects the Son rejects the Father.

Nabil Bahou,

God bless you for making your faith in Christ public. I know that your life is at stake for professing Jesus as the Son of God who died on the cross an raised from the dead. Jesus said His people would be persecuted by people who would think they were doing the will of God. Muslims certainly think they are doing the will of God when they persecute and murder Christians.

America continues to interfer and interject itself into the Muslim world in order to advance American interests. America has reenforced dictatorships for decades because American interests were met. But now her interests are in doubt or jeopardy and America has to increase its intervention and alter the regimes to further protect American interests.

The Muslim world was invaded by the European colonial empires. It was conquered and occupied, and its societies were reshaped in the mess of nation states of today.
The Muslim world remains under colonial control, only not directly occupied like Iraq and Palestine.

Salman Rushdie and Hirsi Ali, they have benefactors and protectors in America even though they are rejected by the Muslim world. Why does American Enterprise Institute provide them sanctuary and patronage with millions of dollars and a global voice? Because they all agree to continue to dismantle the Muslim world by dismantling Islam.

Victoria,

I did read your response and you said that the Qur'an says the whole world will become Muslim by the will of Allah. My question was do YOU desire the whole world to be Muslim?

Also, do you believe that Allah accomplishes his will through people?

Usama,

You are so wrong. Christianity is not the white man's religion it is for people from every nation (See Revelation 5:9). Jesus was Jewish and His ministry took place on the continent of Asia. There are more Christians in China then there are here. Personally, I think you never had a relationship with Jesus or you would not be talking like you are. going to church does not make one a Christian. I also think you are a Muslim who has rejected Jesus as the Son of God. The bible says that whoever rejects the Son rejects the Father.

For Mike Ghouse's eyes only:

The flaws and errors of the major religions:

1. Abraham founder/father of three major religions was either the embellishment of the lives of three different men or a
mythical character as was mythical Moses, the "Tablet-Man" who talked to burning bushes and made much magic in Egypt.

Many of the 1.5 million Conservative Jews and many of their rabbis have relegated Abraham to the myth pile along with most if not all the OT.
Current crisis:
Realization that the Jews are not god's not chosen people.
simpletoremember.com/vitals/ConservativeTorah.htm

2. Jesus was an illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter/simple preacher man who suffered from hallucinations and who has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a mamzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). Analyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists) via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics. www. earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

For added "pizzazz", Catholic/Christian theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

Current crises:

Pedophiliac priests, atonement theology and original sin!!!!

3. Luther, Calvin, Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley et al, founders of Christian-based religions, also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

Current crises:

Adulterous preachers, "propheteering/ profiteering" evangelicals and atonement theology. .

4. Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, who also had embellishing/hallucinating/
plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

This agenda continues as shown by the assassination of Bhutto, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, and the Filipino “koranics”.

And who funds this muck and stench of terror? The warmongering, Islamic, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

Current crises:

The Sunni-Shiite blood feud and the warmongering, womanizing (11 wives), hallucinating founder.

5. Hinduism (from an online Hindu site) - "Hinduism cannot be described as an organized religion. It is not founded by any individual. Hinduism is God centered and therefore one can call Hinduism as founded by God, because the answer to the question ‘Who is behind the eternal principles and who makes them work?’ will have to be ‘Cosmic power, Divine power, God’."
The caste/laborer system and cow worship/reverence are problems when saying a fair and rational God founded Hinduism."

Current crises:

The caste system and cow worship/reverence.

6. Buddhism- "Buddhism began in India about 500 years before the birth of Christ. The people living at that time had become disillusioned with certain beliefs of Hinduism including the caste system, which had grown extremely complex. The number of outcasts (those who did not belong to any particular caste) was continuing to grow."
"However, in Buddhism, like so many other religions, fanciful stories arose concerning events in the life of the founder, Siddhartha Gautama (fifth century B.C.):"

Archaeological discoveries have proved, beyond a doubt, his historical character, but apart from the legends we know very little about the circumstances of his life. e.g. Buddha by one legend was supposedly talking when he came out of his mother's womb.

Bottom line: There are many good ways of living but be aware of the hallucinations, embellishments, lies, and myths surrounding the founders and foundations of said rules of life.

Dear Georgiason;

Thanks for the kind words, "I applaud your attempt to speak on behalf of moderate Islam. However, you continue to ignore the central focus of my five standard questions, and, therefore, you reinforce my qualms about Islam, rather than reassure me about the compatibility of Islam and democracy."

I have addressed each one of the five items way back.. then I saw them repeated to Victoria... please go back and read it.

I think the responsibility to tell the truth is far greater today than ever before. Much of what is said on this thread about Islam is not true, it has come from hearsay. To be firm with oneself and have the highest degree of integrity, finding the truth is one's own responsibility. Truth brings relief, the fear and the hate has been filled in a few hearts, it will go away once you find the truth.

Every religion is here to do good. Individuals committ crimes in the name of religion, religions do not committ crimes nor do they promote hate. Blaming the religion gets one no where in some 3000 years of our history... and in the next 5000 years of history.

Instead we punish the individuals, justice is served, that gives hope to mankind. You cannot kill a religion, it is intangible.

I am speaking for all religions including Islam.

Mike Ghouse
www.WorldMuslimCongress.com
www.Foundationforpluralism.com

I am an American.
I was raised a Christian who attended church regularly However, I realized that the Christian religion is nationalistic: it is elevates America above all other nations, claiming God has empowered and annointed America to rule the world. Christian preachers continue to support American global imperial power today by claiming God expects this of America and by attempting to spread American Christian evangelicalism worldwide adjacent to American military sprawl.

Its racialistic: it portrays God as a Caucasian, Western European man. It also portrays God's prophets as Caucasian and Western European, from Adam to Noah to Moses, David to Jesus. Even American preachers adone themselves titles such as prophets, that they talk directly with God, and they create their own American sects such as Assembly of God, Mormonism, etc.

And Christianity has been used by global empires to expand their imperial power, including using missionaries to infiltrate various parts of the world under false pretenses, creating circumstances which enable these empires' to justify military intervention and thus occupation.

Modern American Christianity is a profittable industry in America. Billions are raised, tax free, based on Christian preachers' and churchs' religious demands to take 10% and more of all income of followers. As well, many Christian organizations claim faith healing abilities which brings in millions of dollars to their churches. Even people need no education to be a preacher.

Most importantly, the fundamental doctrine in the Christian faith defies reasoning and requires the human to suspend rational thought regarding reality. We go our entire lives relying on our reasoning, reality requires us to use it. Even we can look far into the universe using reasoning. Does God have a son with a woman? This defies reasoning. A Caucasian European looking son?
And then this son of God was killed by Romans and betrayed by his own Jewish brethren?

My name is Nabil Bahou, and I am a palastenian.
I just want to say that when I read the Quran I feel different than I read the bible of the new testament. The new testament opens my heart to christ and fill it with love, mercy and understanding. While when I read the quran I don't feel nothing only laws to abide and hate to others. I am happy to be a christian and I feel God of Islam is different than God of Christianity.

Nabil

Georgiason,

well said.

DO YOU DESIRE TO SEE THE WHOLE WORLD MUSLIM?

The Muslim Brotherhood's motto:

"Allah is our objective. The Prophet is our leader. Qur'an is our law. Jihad is our way. Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope."

The first sentence provides their purpose and goal. The second sentence provides an "ideal" leader- an ideology and propaganda. The third sentence provides control over everyone's public and private life. The last sentence proves they are a death cult and provides the path to their annihilation.

FURTHER REPLY TO MIKE GHOUSE:

I applaud your attempt to speak on behalf of moderate Islam. However, you continue to ignore the central focus of my five standard questions, and, therefore, you reinforce my qualms about Islam, rather than reassure me about the compatibility of Islam and democracy.

My terms were clear: I do not seek the opinion of individual Muslims about my questions. I plainly put the questions in this context: Tell us what you believe (know) that the most authoritative voices of Islam would answer in reply to my questions. Once more, you ignore that stipulation and give me another round of the answers provided by a lone Muslim. From that standpoint, you once more elaborate the viewpoint of self-proclaimed moderate American Muslims.

But my point is obviously this: Until the authoritative voices of Islam speak loudly, clearly, and consistently in those moderate terms, how can we Americans be confident that moderates will ultimately win out over the voices of hardline and extremist Islam? Why can’t you tell me how many American ulema and imans share your more moderate views? Why can’t you give me a read-out of what is being preached in Friday sermons in mosques in America? Along the spectrum between radical Islam (like bin Ladin’s), on the one side, and moderate Islam (like what you profess) on the other, where lies the message in the textbooks that is being taught to Muslim students in religious schools in the United States? Why are you afraid to answer the above questions, and seek refuge in repeating your personal viewpoints?

You incessantly turn to another cliché constantly thrown in our faces by so-called moderate Muslims attempting to prove Islam’s benign nature. That’s the “we’re all the same” argument. That’s where, if you can find flaws in other societies/religions, you have found proof that there is really no difference between America/Christianity/Judaism, on the one hand, and Islam on the other. What dishonest nit-picking. Once more, you have reinforced my fears about Islam, rather than reassuring me.

Of course there are flaws in American society. But they are looked upon as exactly that—flaws to be corrected. They are not sanctioned, condoned, and tolerated as the natural state of mankind. There is no one religion and no one officially sanctioned body of old men telling us that those practices are fully sanctioned by God, and therefore, must remain in force for eternity. Further, we have freedom of speech and democratically elected governments that can bring about change.

You lose any semblance of credibility with your statement “Islam is no different than other faiths when it comes to dealing with women.” What palpable balderdash. The treatment of women is the prime example of our differences. In America, the right of women to vote is guaranteed by the Constitution, the basic law of the land. Is there gender discrimination in America? You bet. But that discrimination is against the law, and violators will be prosecuted. There is no single group of authoritative voices of one single religion telling us that gender discrimination is not only OK, God requires it. Further, women and their allies have complete freedom of expression—again, guaranteed them by the basic law of the land. If something is wrong, they can speak out against it, bring lawsuits—in courts where their testimony is equal to any male—mobilize public opinion, hold public rallies—to which they can drive themselves—petition a democratically elected legislature for redress, stand on street corners handing out pamphlets—without a male having to be present—and themselves run for office.

Women’s ability to do all this is enhanced by the fact that women in America are well educated—in America, a greater proportion of women go to college than males. In how many Muslim-dominated countries can any of the above take place? Especially, given the fact that women in Muslim countries not only are disproportionally the least educated, but the overwhelming number of them are likely to be illiterate—two-thirds, I think, is about the average.

Your attempt to gloss over all the above fundamental, major differences between America and Muslim societies by making a big deal out of the remaining flaws in America is the fatal flaw in your own argument. It’s truly amazing that so-called moderate Muslims like yourself constantly shoot yourselves in the foot by resorting to this flim-flammery. Do you honest-to-God believe that your misbegotten words constitute an intellectually sound argument that is going to convince Americans that there is no difference between America and the average Muslim-dominated society? My Allah help you.

Victoria, Victoria, Victoria,

How is that Five Step Program for Removing the Ills of Islam coming? Our free copy was sent to you and others on August 15, 2008 at 5:16 PM.

Hi thinkaboutit-

Maybe you missed it because of J.J's extra long post-
I answered your question on August 15 @ 2:22PM-

Victoria, Do you desire to see the whole world Muslim? You have yet to answer this question.

Victoria,

You tactic ignores whether what I posted was what Muhammad said. It also attempts to discredit what I quoted by lumping me with people like David Duke. Demonstrate that what I have posted is wrong and then you will be debating in a fair way. By they way, I did not get any of my posts from the sources you quoted.

A Malaysian court on Wednesday rejected a Muslim woman's appeal to convert back to Christianity, the latest case to test the limits of religious freedom in the country.

The Court of Appeal threw out Noorashikin Lim Abdullah's bid to renounce Islam on technical grounds - that she used her original Chinese name in her suit, her lawyer Edmond Bon said.

The court said the appellant was not legally recognized because her Chinese name - Lim Yoke Khoon - no longer existed following her conversion to Islam in 1994, Bon told The Associated Press.

A Chinese judge on the three-man panel dissented, he said.

"The court rejected the appeal on technical grounds, not on merit. We believe they are afraid to hear the case" because of the sensitivity of the issue, Bon said.

The Associated Press, August 6 2008

Once you enter this murderous faith, you can never leave, so beware.

PESHAWAR, Pakistan — The Pakistani Taliban declared "open war" Tuesday in response to military offensives in the northwest, saying it staged a bombing that destroyed an air force truck and killed up to 14 people, including a child.

Fox news, August 12 2008

Muslims killing muslims when not killing infidels

Victoria,

Please keep a lid on it. Non-muslims judge muslims not by their words but by their actions. Right now, all we see are muslims murdering innocent people in the name of Allah.

The fact is that millions of muslims would like to leave Islam but are prevented because apostasy is punishable by death. If Islam is so tolerant then why do we witness muslims being killed for wanting to leave Islam.

The fact is that muslims worship the devil.

SEVERAL bombings that occurred in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region early this morning have left seven bombers and a security guard dead, and two police and two civilians injured, according to the latest information of the regional government.

The explosions occurred at 2:30am in Kuqa County, southern Xinjiang, when a tricycle carrying explosive devices drove into the yard of the county public security bureau and then an explosion went off, a regional government spokesman said.

The bombing killed a security guard, injured two police officers and two civilians, and destroyed two police cars.

Shanghai Daily, August 10 2008

TRIPOLI, Lebanon (Reuters) - At least 15 people including nine soldiers were killed in Lebanon on Wednesday, according to security sources, in the deadliest attack on the army since a battle with al Qaeda-inspired militants last year.

An army statement described the attack in the northern city of Tripoli as a "terrorist bombing" -- a phrase used in the past by the military when it suspects militant Islamist involvement.

Reuters, August 13, 2008

I tried to find what you posted thinkaboutit- and was led to NUKE EM NOW and Daniel Pipes- a known islamophobe.

Next you'll be sending me to David Duke's website to find lessons in African-American history.

What is C9B1N31 supposed to mean? It is made up designation. Hadeeth is not chronicled in such a way- but i suspect you got it from someone who was presenting it to an audience that doesn't know any better.

Nice try.

David Waters you are like a little child. Take it out on the Post not us.

Whose words are below Victoria? Answer: Muhammad's words. So either you do not not what the prophet taught or you are a liar.

"I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify to the fact that there is no god but Allah, and believe in me (that) I am the Messenger and in all that I have brought"
Muslim:C9B1N31

Tell us Victoria do you want the whole world to be Muslim? If not you do not follow your prophet's teaching which are supposed to be the words of your Allah.

The Qur'an teaches that Muslims are to convert the world by all means possible and holy way is a big way in which this is to be accomplished. So be careful fools who want to believe that Islam is peaceful and equal to all other religions. Make no mistake about it all true Qur'an believing hadeeth reading Muslims and that includes Victoria want to see Islam rule the entire world. Their war is POLITICAL (Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Hezbollah, Hamas, Al-Qaeda), ECONOMICAL (Dubai and other Islamic nations are becoming the economic center of the world. Muslims are buying out failed banks and other American interests), AND MILITARISTIC (Daily murder of converts out of Islam and war in against Israel, Christians "infidels" whenever possible). Just look at all the ground Islam has gained since the true Muslims blew up the WTC. You would think it would be opposite but all the PC police have made sure the masses do not look down on Islam. The truth about Islam is right in front of us yet we seem helpless to save ourselves. The press is so in this watch CNN International and other American international news stations sometime you would think it sole purpose was to promote Islam.

Asra,
so U think fiction is a constructive way to understand history!!!!!!! I wish u never opened your mouth. U alawyas want to "Debate" how to insult Muslims and hide behind the notion that U are a "Muslim," just like when u took your illigitimate son to Haj and invented your "loneliness" in Mecca as if some had raped u.

Will do us a favor and keep your mouth closed because you are not a rep of Islam and Muslims-u write only for self-serving purposes and to appease Islam haters and bashers.

Tis time again to offer the free Five Point Program for Saving Those Brainwashed in Islam (e.g. Victoria, Somali, The Jihadist, Eboo Patel, Mike G):

Using "The 77 Branches of Islamic "faith" a collection compiled by Imam Bayhaqi as a starting point. In it, he explains the essential virtues that reflect true "faith" (iman) through related Qur’anic verses and Prophetic sayings." i.e. a nice summary of the Koran and Islamic beliefs.

"1. Belief in Allah"

"aka as God, Yahweh, Zeus, Jehovah, Mother Nature, etc." should be added to your cleansing neurons.

"2. To believe that everything other than Allah was non-existent. Thereafter, Allah Most High created these things and subsequently they came into existence."

Evolution and the Big Bang or the "Gib Gnab" (when the universe starts to recycle) are more plausible and the "akas" for Allah should be included if you continue to be a "creationist".

"3. To believe in the existence of angels."

A major item for neuron cleansing. Angels/devils are the mythical creations of ancient civilizations, e.g. Hittites, to explain/define natural events, contacts with their gods, big birds, sudden winds, protectors during the dark nights, etc. No "pretty/ugly wingy thingies" ever visited or talked to Mohammed, Jesus, Mary or Joseph or Joe Smith. Today we would classify angels as fairies and "tinker bells". Modern devils are classified as the demons of the demented.

"4. To believe that all the heavenly books that were sent to the different prophets are true. However, apart from the Quran, all other books are not valid anymore."

Another major item to delete. There are no books written in the spirit state of Heaven (if there is one) just as there are no angels/"pwtfft"s to write/publish/distribute them. The Koran, OT, NT etc. are simply books written by humans for humans.

Prophets were invented by ancient scribes typically to keep the uneducated masses in line. Today we call them fortune tellers.

Prophecies are also invalidated by the natural/God/Allah gifts of Free Will and Future.

"5. To believe that all the prophets are true. However, we are commanded to follow the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) alone."

Mohammed spent thirty days fasting in a hot cave before his first contact with Allah aka God etc. via a "pretty wingy thingy". Common sense demands a neuron deletion of #5. #5 is also the major source of Islamic violence i.e. turning Mohammed's "fast, hunger-driven" hallucinations into horrible reality for unbelievers.

Accept these five "cleansers" and we guarantee a complete recovery from your orthodox Islamic ways!!!!

Wow Courtney. What a lunatic. The full moon isn't until tomorrow night.

Well, JJ is at it again, and has spammed this blog until it is useless. I'm sure he is laughing his a** off. A pity the moderator won't do anything about it. So much for the integrity of On Faith.

Whose words are below Victoria? Answer: Muhammad's words. So either you do not not what the prophet taught or you are a liar.

"I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify to the fact that there is no god but Allah, and believe in me (that) I am the Messenger and in all that I have brought"
Muslim:C9B1N31

Tell us Victoria do you want the whole world to be Muslim? If not you do not follow your prophet's teaching which are supposed to be the words of your Allah.

The Qur'an teaches that Muslims are to convert the world by all means possible and holy way is a big way in which this is to be accomplished. So be careful fools who want to believe that Islam is peaceful and equal to all other religions. Make no mistake about it all true Qur'an believing hadeeth reading Muslims and that includes Victoria want to see Islam rule the entire world. Their war is POLITICAL (Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Hezbollah, Hamas, Al-Qaeda), ECONOMICAL (Dubai and other Islamic nations are becoming the economic center of the world. Muslims are buying out failed banks and other American interests), AND MILITARISTIC (Daily murder of converts out of Islam and war in against Israel, Christians "infidels" whenever possible). Just look at all the ground Islam has gained since the true Muslims blew up the WTC. You would think it would be opposite but all the PC police have made sure the masses do not look down on Islam. The truth about Islam is right in front of us yet we seem helpless to save ourselves. The press is so in this watch CNN International and other American international news stations sometime you would think it sole purpose was to promote Islam.

A police force has apologised to Islamic leaders for the "offensive" postcard advertising a new non-emergency telephone number, which shows a six-month-old trainee police dog named Rebel.

The German shepherd puppy has proved hugely popular with the public, hundreds of who have logged on to the force's website to read his online training diary.

But some Muslims in the Dundee area have reportedly been upset by the image because they consider dogs to be "ritually unclean", while shopkeepers have refused to display the advert.

London Times, July 1 2008

Tolerant muslims????

SEVERAL bombings that occurred in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region early this morning have left seven bombers and a security guard dead, and two police and two civilians injured, according to the latest information of the regional government.

The explosions occurred at 2:30am in Kuqa County, southern Xinjiang, when a tricycle carrying explosive devices drove into the yard of the county public security bureau and then an explosion went off, a regional government spokesman said.

The bombing killed a security guard, injured two police officers and two civilians, and destroyed two police cars.

Shanghai Daily, August 10 2008

TRIPOLI, Lebanon (Reuters) - At least 15 people including nine soldiers were killed in Lebanon on Wednesday, according to security sources, in the deadliest attack on the army since a battle with al Qaeda-inspired militants last year.

An army statement described the attack in the northern city of Tripoli as a "terrorist bombing" -- a phrase used in the past by the military when it suspects militant Islamist involvement.

Reuters, August 13, 2008

How curious that this blog has devolved from a discussion to a body count. Why can't we be obsessed with life instead of death, good instead of bad?

A Malaysian court on Wednesday rejected a Muslim woman's appeal to convert back to Christianity, the latest case to test the limits of religious freedom in the country.

The Court of Appeal threw out Noorashikin Lim Abdullah's bid to renounce Islam on technical grounds - that she used her original Chinese name in her suit, her lawyer Edmond Bon said.

The court said the appellant was not legally recognized because her Chinese name - Lim Yoke Khoon - no longer existed following her conversion to Islam in 1994, Bon told The Associated Press.

A Chinese judge on the three-man panel dissented, he said.

"The court rejected the appeal on technical grounds, not on merit. We believe they are afraid to hear the case" because of the sensitivity of the issue, Bon said.

The Associated Press, August 6 2008

Once you enter this murderous faith, you can never leave, so beware.

PESHAWAR, Pakistan — The Pakistani Taliban declared "open war" Tuesday in response to military offensives in the northwest, saying it staged a bombing that destroyed an air force truck and killed up to 14 people, including a child.

Fox news, August 12 2008

Muslims killing muslims when not killing infidels

A police force has apologised to Islamic leaders for the "offensive" postcard advertising a new non-emergency telephone number, which shows a six-month-old trainee police dog named Rebel.

The German shepherd puppy has proved hugely popular with the public, hundreds of who have logged on to the force's website to read his online training diary.

But some Muslims in the Dundee area have reportedly been upset by the image because they consider dogs to be "ritually unclean", while shopkeepers have refused to display the advert.

London Times, July 1 2008

Tolerant muslims????

SEVERAL bombings that occurred in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region early this morning have left seven bombers and a security guard dead, and two police and two civilians injured, according to the latest information of the regional government.

The explosions occurred at 2:30am in Kuqa County, southern Xinjiang, when a tricycle carrying explosive devices drove into the yard of the county public security bureau and then an explosion went off, a regional government spokesman said.

The bombing killed a security guard, injured two police officers and two civilians, and destroyed two police cars.

Shanghai Daily, August 10 2008

TRIPOLI, Lebanon (Reuters) - At least 15 people including nine soldiers were killed in Lebanon on Wednesday, according to security sources, in the deadliest attack on the army since a battle with al Qaeda-inspired militants last year.

An army statement described the attack in the northern city of Tripoli as a "terrorist bombing" -- a phrase used in the past by the military when it suspects militant Islamist involvement.

Reuters, August 13, 2008

"The country that invoked "the most compassionate and merciful" showed neither compassion nor mercy for the victims of Darfur"

Denying Darfur: UN Watch's Hillel Neuer Confronts Sudan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_niYYxEWNU

UN Watch's Hillel Neuer takes on Sudan, while its friends -- Syria, Saudi Arabia, China -- deny the atrocities in Darfur, and attack the members of the mission on Darfur as headed by Jody Williams.

halozcel:

Viking Arminius? Huh? The Arminius I took my handle from is the German leader who in 9 AD (CE) totally destroyed three Roman legions in the Teutoburgerwald.

As to God - this is what I believe: there is but one God, and He is God of us all, and we are all his children. We see Him differently, looking through St Paul's glass darkly. God is too big for any one church, any one religion. And each and every religion has its blatant contradictions and verses that can be taken to be hateful. Faith is NOT easy. It is not a destination, it is a journey.

Mike Ghouse,

*Islam doesnt teach to hate*
No,Mike.Islam mandates Hate.8.12 and 2.161(such as many others) teaching Hate and Curse.

Our Mission,*...world of co-existence*
Could you show any islamic country where *co-existence* exists ?

Goals,*...to understand different faiths*
Mike,you dont know islam.To islam,there is only one faith/islam.Trinity is idolatry in islam.

Islam defined: Justice for every human being.*Justice* in islam means Shariah,nothing else.Islam doesnt know what Contemporary Justice is.Justice/Shariah means *two equals one*

A Just Society,*Justice/Shariah,Liberty and Freedom(Quran 33.36 rejects Liberty and Freedom) are the core values in islam.Funny Palaver.Would you write any islamic country where Contemporary Justice,Liberty and Freedom exist ?

Dear Mike Ghouse,
You can not correct *the cult of violence* by writting palaver and sophistry.You have to face and meet the realities of islam.
Islam is the name of the Cult in Saudi Arabia,not what you writ.
Islam is the name of belief in Iran,not what you describe.
Islam is the name of faith in Afghanistan,not what you say.

ANON,
*mind*,*from first place to third place*(!)
Is there *mind* in islamic world ?
Could you write any islamic country where muslims have *mind* ?

VICTORIA,
*there is no 'me first' but always 'we first'* Myth.
Would you show any islamic country where people say *we first* ?
*Islam is the first religion/cult to declare that prejudice on race or ethnicity or gender is a deplorable condition* No,you are writting Lie.
Jewish people is cursed in islam.
Yellow races(Yajooj and Majooj as written in quran) are dangerous peoples.
Muslim excels non-muslim/infidel.
Man excels womam.Two women equals one man 2.282
Son excels daughter.

VIKING ARMINIUS,
Allah of Islam is not God of Christianity.Islam curses Trinity,Son of God,Bible,Second Coming etc.
Besides,what I write is not bigotry,I only try to show realities versus *Alice in Wonderland* tales.

Regards.

Victoria thinks-

"Islam is the first religion to declare that prejudice based on race or ethnicity or nationality or gender is a deplorable condition."

HOWEVER in the Quran it says:

"On the Day when (some) faces will be whitened and (some) faces will be blackened; and as for those whose faces have been blackened, it will be said unto them: Disbelieved ye after your (profession of) belief? Then taste the punishment for that ye disbelieved."(Qur'an, Surah Âl 'Imran 3:106)

"And on the Day of Resurrection thou (Muhammad) seest those who lied concerning Allah with their faces blackened. Is not the home of the scorners in hell?"(Qur'an, Surah Az-Zumar 39:60)

This racism is being played out today among the Muslims of Sudan. The lighter skinned Muslims are committing atrocities against their darker skinned co-religionists while Muslims worldwide (including Victoria) say and do nothing. It is the Christians who are providing the wealth of food, shelter and a voice for the stricken Muslims of Darfur:

From AP (July 14):

The International Criminal Court has filed genocide charges against the president of Sudan. The court accuses Omar al-Bashir of masterminding attempts to wipe out African tribes in Darfur with a campaign of murder, rape and deportation.

(SOT: LUIS MORENO-OCAMPO, PROSECUTOR OF INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT) WE ARE CHARGING AL-BASHIR WITH THREE COUNTS OF GENOCIDE, FIVE OF CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY AND TWO OF WAR CRIMES.

"The court's prosecutor says al-Bashir's forces attacked a village then put all the people who lived there in camps without food, water or cattle. The prosecution also says there were rapes.

(SOT: MORENO-CAMPO)A 70 YEAR-OLD WOMAN, 6 YEAR-OLD GIRLS, THEY WERE RAPED. MASSIVE RAPES, GANG RAPES, RAPES IN FRONT OF THE PARENTS. WOMEN ARE USED TO IT. WHEN THEY ARE LOOKING FOR FIREWOOD, THEY KNOW THEY CAN BE RAPED, SO THEY ORGANISE A GROUP OF 20, SAYING: 'OKAY SOME OF US WILL ESCAPE'. AND THIS HAPPENED EACH DAY.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCHq92JFG0w

GABY-
""To be a Muslim (or religious of any kind) is to be a peace maker, one who constantly seeks to mitigate conflicts and nurtures goodwill for peaceful co-existence of humanity. "

Unless you are a Muslim, it is pretty clear that it does not apply to you.
Defining oneself is a perfectly acceptable practice.

"Are you suggesting that I have to be religious to be a peace maker??? I know a lot of secular people that are by far better peace makers than religious ones."

Speaking well about one's own intentions reflects in no way upon the intentions of others.
Don't be scared.

I think anybody with half of a brain knows the difference that exists in the world between the literal minded and fundamental interpretations of any scripture-

Those with limited spiritual capacity and low self esteem filled with fear and a small desire to raise themselves above others can take any scripture anywhere out of its entire context and try to justify their own tiny and paranoid prejudices based on heir fears fueled by ignorance.

What a mentality! It takes effort and intelligence to read and process information.

A heart inclined to hate will find it- if it is there or not.

Another thing about the Qur'an Arminius is that it is divided into 2 separate theses.
ONe is in a historical context, as events were unfolding and speaking to a specific peoples or happenings.
Another is a comprehensive stricture for all time.

The trolls that come in here and build elaborate scenarios upon a sentence are doing such a thing-

You can make the similar example of the Israelites dashing the heads of babies against stones in the OT-
I don't believe there are any Jewish people, nor Christians, who would contend that such an activity is proscribed for all for all time.

Well, It looks like the trolls have crawled out from under their rocks- so I'm done feeding them.

Peace

Mike Ghouse:

"To be a Muslim (or religious of any kind) is to be a peace maker, one who constantly seeks to mitigate conflicts and nurtures goodwill for peaceful co-existence of humanity. "

Are you suggesting that I have to be religious to be a peace maker??? I know a lot of secular people that are by far better peace makers than religious ones.

"The Qur'an teaches that Muslims are to convert the world by all means possible"

No it doesn't. Don't fall prey to alramist propoganda.

"Make no mistake about it all true Qur'an believing hadeeth reading Muslims and that includes Victoria want to see Islam rule the entire world."

No, we don't.
Don't be ridiculous. Turn off Fox news-

The Qur'an states that one day, all of the world will be BELIEVERS. And that will happen through the will of ALLAH, not the actions of men and women.

There are no conspiratorial instructions to Muslims, no template for world domination.

Get a grip on your own paranoia.

MIKE GHOUSE:

From the Quran-

Sura (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".

This is written AGAINST Christians.

Do you renounce this verse or do you still intend to "terrorize" me?

The Qur'an teaches that Muslims are to convert the world by all means possible and holy way is a big way in which this is to be accomplished. So be careful fools who want to believe that Islam is peaceful and equal to all other religions. Make no mistake about it all true Qur'an believing hadeeth reading Muslims and that includes Victoria want to see Islam rule the entire world. Their war is POLITICAL (Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Hezbollah, Hamas, Al-Qaeda), ECONOMICAL (Dubai and other Islamic nations are becoming the economic center of the world. Muslims are buying out failed banks and other American interests), AND MILITARISTIC (Daily murder of converts out of Islam and war in against Israel, Christians "infidels" whenever possible). Just look at all the ground Islam has gained since the true Muslims blew up the WTC. You would think it would be opposite but all the PC police have made sure the masses do not look down on Islam. The truth about Islam is right in front of us yet we seem helpless to save ourselves. The press is so in this watch CNN International and other American international news stations sometime you would think it sole purpose was to promote Islam.

Actually Arminius I was thinking of you when I wrote that- I wanted to give a substantial example of Islam in action instead of a dry list of do's.

Also- (I was tired) I didn't comment on your reading of the Qur'an- i can see how it is difficult to read- it is not linear or chronologically written- I reccommend going to the middle or towards the end- the first (suras) chapters are the longest- sura 18 has a nice esoteric story in it about Musa (Moses)- (halfway through the sura) http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/QURAN/18.htm

i think some of the language in this translation may be a bit archaic-

Yup- time for the adults to talk.

Hello, Victoria,

Your tale of helping the woman with children in the pouring rain should be an inspiration to Christians and everyone else. All too often we Christians forget Jesus' parable of the Good Samaritan.

Truly we are ALL God's children.

Mr. Ghouse has exhibited grace in his writings- advocating Muslims to define themselves-

his point-
"Islam is a deed based non-judgmental religion, and consistently encourages individuals to do good. It emphasizes about individual responsibility towards the peace and security of society at large."

As an example, and an exhortation to my brothers and sisters in the word(in other words- everyone) I'll relate a simple experience that just happened when I walked out the door, and how it relates to Islam.

Yesterday, there was a torrential rain when I left my house- I saw a young woman about a block away running with a toddler in tow and a baby on her shoulder with a plastic bag on it's head-
I scurried to the woman and put my umbrella over her and her childrens' heads- wherever she was headed was now my destination. She was speaking in rapid spanish, which I didn't get- so we just ran. After a block- we came upon her husband who got out of his car, and lifted the child over the river of water by the curb- then lifted tiny mother and baby right into the car- smiled and waved and off I went.

That is what a Muslim does. I didn't bother to asses her race or religion, she was another finger on the hand of the human body that is my family.

Islam goes beyond personal salvation and gives us the tools of how to be positive actors in society.
It goes beyond just being a good neighbor- because it is a holistic overview of the nature of humans- and that includes the bad that humans are capable of.
We are not naive- it is not a feel good I'm ok you're ok thing- we are aware of the existence of evil- but are not controlled by that awareness.

We are commanded to have suspicion for the good in people first- and it often brings out good in others.
We balance what we need (not want) as individuals with what society needs- there is no "me first" but always "we first".

Islam is the first religion to declare that prejudice based on race or ethnicity or nationality or gender is a deplorable condition.

Peace

Islam shows its true thuggish nature once again. Soon it may be too late to stand against them.

Neo,
your statements about Mohammad and Moses should remind us all that what is being debated as Islamic or satanic is nothing but old Semitic oddities.

as far as freedom of speech is concerned, Islam is too complex to be defined by odd balls be it the killer of Van Keogh or qada. Islam seems to be hijacked by extremists..if all Muslims were the likes of these odd balls, Muslims would be rejected wherever they go...(by the way, Christian extremists as well as other extremists would like to have a Muslim be synonymous with evil.) Nothing would please extremists of any strip than to change the other to adopt their moral, ethical and cultural standards....most Moslims I know seek accommodation with the other.

Those extremists who hijacked Islam have relegated the 'mind', one of the basic institutions from first place to third place.
The 'Mind' as an institution would reclaim its primacy....what we see now is a battle for the mind of Muslims.

you are right, Islam as defined by zurkawi or bin laden are incompatible with liberal democracy. Islam, however, has more liberal and humane outlook on social institutions be it marriage or gender equality. Let's not help extremists polarize debate between different religions and cultures. Polarization is all extremists have.

Beat the extremists......shore up dialogue with 'the other'.

I believe the civilized world will triumph over the murderous Islam faith. Non-muslims must remember that all muslims, until they give up their faith, are potential murderers and terrorists.

Only if we are aware of their evil intentions can humanity destroy these evil scums.

The Terrorist They Call "president" Is The Enemy Of Humanity!!!

I told you so, silly, fellow Muslims. The ignorant sub-humans are already jumping all over your kind attempts to make them understand a little bit. They are NOT civilized, these people. They think civilization is their stinking, crime-ridden, rat infested, bed bug infested rotting "cities."

As I said before, trying to save you from the vitriol, don't TALK TO THEM. Don't give them any openings to INSULT YOU, because that's all these sub-human's are capable of. They will throw garbage at you for trying to be nice to them and talk to them. They don't deserve politeness.

Don't waste your time on these people. It is not worth it. If you must use WAPO space, I suggest you use it to ACCUSE them of their CRIMES, GENOCIDES. These sub-human's don't any longer understand what "debates" are. Their grandfathers were more civilized!!!!

Islam or any religion does not teach one to hate, to dominate or to subjugate, individuals do. They do because they did get their own religion into their blood stream.

Hate towards others is not about religion, I have read quite a lot of hate on this thread, when you are loaded with it, that is all you can think of about others. Those who have claimed to be Christians on this thread, have not been a Christian in their disposition, same goes with others whether they are Muslims, Jews, Hindus or others.

Good Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists and others will talk about love, about getting along, about forgivenes and about Co-existence. Those who are, need to come out and speak up. If not you are letting the other ones lead the discussion.

To be a Muslim (or religious of any kind) is to be a peace maker, one who constantly seeks to mitigate conflicts and nurtures goodwill for peaceful co-existence of humanity. God wants us to live in peace and harmony with his creation; Life and Matter.

As Muslims, we are driven by the Qur'an, Al-Hujurat, Surah 49:13: "O mankind! We have created you male and female, and have made you nations and tribes that ye may know one another. The noblest of you, in sight of Allah, is the best in conduct. Allah Knows and is Aware."

Our Mission

Our Mission is to work for a world of co-existence through inclusiveness and participation. As a member of diverse family of faiths, our efforts will be directed towards justice and equity to attain peace for the humankind with a firm grounding in commonly held values. We cannot have advantages at the cost of others. Such benefits are temporary and deleterious to lasting peace. We believe what is good for Muslims has got to be good for the world, and vice versa, to sustain it.

Indeed we aspire to promote goodwill amongst people of different affiliations, regardless of their faith, gender, race, nationality, culture or any other uniqueness blessed by the creator.

Goals

Our short term goal is to understand different faiths and let the values of Islam be understood as well. So we may know one another.

Our Long term goal is simply to bring the realization that the purpose of all religions is to bring peace and tranquility to an individual and further create a balanced relationships between the individual, society and the environment. Learning about other faiths need not imply infidelity, but rather the search will enrich one's own faith, it reaffirms the idea that the intent of every faith is to "fix" the individual as an active working and participating spoke in the wheel of life. Some get it and some don't.

Islam defined

The most precise definition of Islam: Justice for every human being.

The Qur'aan starts with the word God of Universe (not necessarily Muslims) and ends with Humankind (and again not Muslims).

We have a monumental task to repair the World, and we will do our part in working towards a World of co-existence, one person at a time. We are committed, and now help us God. Amen.

Good Deeds

Islam is a deed based non-judgmental religion, and consistently encourages individuals to do good. It emphasizes about individual responsibility towards the peace and security of society at large.

Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) described a good deed as an act which benefits others, such as planting a tree that serves generations of wayfarers with fruit and the shade. The world is a better place today because of a good legacy bequeathed to humanity by people of all faiths that came before us. We owe it to coming generations to leave the world a little better than we found it, to usher an era of justice and peace.

With Prejudice towards none

Almost all Muslims are cognizant and repeat the verse “God is the master of the Day of Judgment, and he alone we worship”. A fully observant Muslim recites this verse at least 50 times a day and refrains from judging others, as he or she believes God only can make that call.

Individual responsibility

Qur'an, Al-An'am, Surah 6:163-164: I ask whether I should seek any god besides God--when he is the Lord of all things. All people will reap the harvest of their own deeds; no one will bear another’s burden. Ultimately, all of you will return to your Lord, and he will resolve your disputes.

Citizenship

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) set an example of good citizenship early on in his life. The people of Makkah, non-Muslims at that time, called him Al-Amin; the truthful, the trustworthy and the peace maker because of his unwavering commitment to honesty in word and deed. The goal of the World Muslim Congress is to instill the humane values of Islam and to aspire to be Al-Amin to all.

A Just society

Islam emerged to bring peace, tranquility and equilibrium to the multitudes of tribes at conflict with each other in the 6th century AD. In a period of 23 years, thru suffering, persecution and sacrifice a just society evolved. Diversity was it’s basis, respecting each tradition and bringing them together and appreciating the creator was the foundation stone of Islam. Justice, liberty and freedom are the core values enshrined in Islam.

Pluralism

Islam is indeed a pluralistic faith and imbues a sense of humility and ideals of equality of humankind. These values are embedded in its rituals practices. All people harvest their own deeds.

Qur'an, At-Taghabun, Surah 64:2-4: It was God who created you; yet some of you refuse to believe, while others have faith. He is aware of all your actions. He created the heavens and the earth to manifest the truth.

He fashioned each one of you--and each one of you is beautiful. To God you will all return. He knows all that the heavens and the earth contain. He knows all that you hide and all that you reveal. He knows your deepest thoughts.

The Madinah pact, prescribes the rights of its Citizens and Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was the signatory to it as the head of the City State. It was an all inclusive agreement between the Jews, Christians, Sabeans, Quraish, Muslims and other tribes for a peaceful co-existence. An example was set for a pluralistic society in documenting the rights of individuals. Perhaps it was the first historical document that included diverse people. The Word Ummah was used in the document to mean all residents of the City.

Freedom

God could have made us all sinless angels; instead he chose to make us humans, giving guidance on one hand, temptations on the other – then giving room to make mistakes, and room for correction. Islam has not claimed monopoly to heaven; it is assured to those who do good deeds. Good deeds are defined by Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) as how your treat others. He told his daughter that it would be her deeds that would earn her a place in the Kingdom of God and not her relation with the Prophet. ''There is no free lunch.

Qur'an, Al-Inshiqaq, Surah 84:7-15: Each person will be given a book. Those who are given their books in their right hands (understanding the book correctly) will be judged leniently; and they will return to their people joyfully. But those who are given their books in their left hands (misunderstanding) will call their own destruction on themselves, and burn in the fire of hell. There are the people who have never cared for their neighbors; they thought they would never return to God. Their Lord watches all that people do.

For Millions of years, the physical dimension of the Universe has existed in a perfect balance as it did not have the ego to compete with each other nor had the freedom to mess with it. They do, what God intended them to do. It is the human dimension that needed religion, and every religion is meant to bring peace to individuals and balance to the world around them through free choice.

God willing, the Muslim community will be drawing the blue prints and developing a 14 year plan to find their space in the world of communities, as contributors and active participants in the peaceful co-existence for the people of the World. The Book “Muslim Vision 2020” is on the horizon.

The human desire to monopolize World resources is the root cause of all evil. The pockets of anarchy and problems of the world are born out of fear and insecurities of evil men. Religion is not the source of wars or conflict. In fact, Religion is the best Gift humans have received from God, without which the World would be chaotic.

Praise the Lord. We are pleased to announce the formation of The World Muslim Congress, A non-profit organization dedicated to promoting co-existence and contributing towards a just world. (Formed: 5/25/2006)

Our silence has done more damage to us, our faith and our World. Silent no more, God willing, we will resolutely take back our faith for our good and the good of mankind.

A Major Paradigm Shift

The world has indeed become a global community. Everyone is a neighbor to everyone else; we aspire to nurture the concept of good neighborliness in the world. Our advisory board will be represented by individuals from every faith. It is time for us to be equal citizens of one world, our home. This is a major paradigm shift in how the religious organizations would be conducting their business in the coming years.

Our upcoming website: www.WorldMuslimCongress.com will present a range of values in Islam. It is a shame that some of the translations of Qur’an contain phrases that are not in Qur’an. A dozen translations will be presented verse by verse, with the source. So you may know the truth!

Qur'an, As-Saff, Surah 61:2-3: Believers, why do you say what you do not execute? It is most offensive in the sight of Allah when you say what you do not practice!

Mike Ghouse
www.WorldMuslimcongress.com

Victoria, Victoria, Victoria,

The historical truth is not offensive.

So let us proceed with Part 2-7 for you and your fellow brainwashed "Islamics":

Do you believe:

2. That the long-dead Arab did actually talk to the "pretty Gabriel" in the "Gabe" cave and therein received the warmongering and anti-female words now listed in the koran?

3. That Sunnis are superior to Shiites in all aspects of life?

4. That Islam is perfect and the koran inherently condones no sin even though the 24/7 800 year-old feud between Sunnis and Shiites give significant credence that suicides, assassinations, maiming, and murder are condoned by the koran?

5. That having multiple wives also gives significant credence to the sins of lust and polygamy?

6. That the condoned treatment of these wives gives credence that the koran allows the sins of anger and greed?

7. And that Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s book, Infidel, is her autobiography and that in the paperback issue, p. 47 the statement:

"Some of the Saudi women in our neighborhood were regularly beaten by their husbands. You could hear them at night. Their screams resounded across the courtyards. "No! Please! By Allah!" is the truth?????

Again, some historic background about your belief in paranormals i.e. "pretty, wingie, talking, thingies":

Joe Smith had his talking/writing Moroni.

Mohammed had his talking/writing Gabriel (this "tinkerbell" got around).

Jesus and his family had Michael, Gabriel, and Satan, the latter being a modern day demon of the demented.

The Abraham-Moses myths had their Angel of Death and other "no-namers" to do their dirty work or other assorted duties.

Contemporary biblical and religious scholars have relegated these "pretty wingie thingies" to the myth pile. We should do the same to include deleting all references to them in our religious operating manuals. Doing this will eliminate the prophet/profit/prophecy status of these founders and put them where they belong as simple humans just like the rest of us.

Some added references to angels/"tinker bells".
"Latter-day Saints also believe that Michael the Archangel was Adam (the first man) when he was mortal, and Gabriel lived on the earth as Noah."
Apparently hallucinations did not stop with Joe Smith.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07049c.htm

"This belief in guardian angels can be traced throughout all antiquity; pagans, like Menander and Plutarch (cf. Euseb., "Praep. Evang.", xii), and Neo-Platonists, like Plotinus, held it. It was also the belief of the Babylonians and Assyrians, as their monuments testify, for a figure of a guardian angel now in the British Museum once decorated an Assyrian palace, and might well serve for a modern representation; while Nabopolassar, father of Nebuchadnezzar the Great, says: "He (Marduk) sent a tutelary deity (cherub) of grace to go at my side; in everything that I did, he made my work to succeed."

Catholic monks and Dark Age theologians also did their share of hallucinating:

"TUBUAS-A member of the group of angels who were removed from the ranks of officially recognized celestial hierarchy in 745 by a council in Rome under Pope Zachary. He was joined by Uriel, Adimus, Sabaoth, Simiel, and Raguel."
And tinker bells go way, way back:

"In Zoroastrianism there are different angel like creatures. For example each person has a guardian angel caled Fravashi. They patronize human being and other creatures and also manifest god’s energy. Also, the Amesha Spentas have often been regarded as angels, but they don't convey messages, but are rather emanations of Ahura Mazda ("Wise Lord", God); they appear in an abstract fashion in the religious thought of Zarathustra and then later (during the Achaemenid period of Zoroastrianism) became personalized, associated with an aspect of the divine creation (fire, plants, water...)."

"The beginnings of the biblical belief in angels must be sought in very early folklore. The gods of the Hittites and Canaanites had their supernatural messengers, and parallels to the Old Testament stories of angels are found in Near Eastern literature. "

"The 'Magic Papyri' contain many spells to secure just such help and protection of angels. From magic traditions arose the concept of the guardian angel. "

For added information see the review at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel

"why is (Islam) so afraid to compete in the marketplace of ideas? Why ban other religions, and kill apostates?"

Because it is based on a totalitarian ideology?

"Totalitarianism (or totalitarian rule) is a concept used to describe political systems where a state regulates nearly every aspect of public and private life. Totalitarian regimes or movements maintain themselves in political power by means of an official all-embracing ideology and propaganda disseminated through the state-controlled mass media, a single party that controls the state, personality cults, central state-controlled economy, regulation and restriction of free discussion and criticism, the use of mass surveillance, and widespread use of terror tactics."

Why do Muslims object to books they perceive to be negative about Mohammed?

Would they object to a book describing him as having lice, or dyeing his hair red, or having a weird lump on his back between his shoulders?

'cause that's what the Hadith says.

My guess: complaints about these books aren't complaints about their accuracy, but ego-driven rants by people who perceive themselves to be better than other peoples and religions. Query: if Islam is so great and is the "true" religion, why is it so afraid to compete in the marketplace of ideas? Why ban other religions, and kill apostates?

Viewed through this prism, it becomes clear that rampaging violence perenially caused by Muslims is due to their gigantic inferiority complex and fear that their militant "religion" is a hollow sham. If it were such a great religion, no criticism or complaint could ever affect the austere certainty of its worshippers. Instead, if you find yourself censoring and killing your critics you are probably trying awful hard to cover up something. My guess: the truth.

This thread has devolved into a place for trading insults. The important part to realize here is that the subject at issue is the position of Islam on free speech, and possibly the sexual morality of its founder. Let's address his morals first. His marriage to many women, among them a child, Aisha, his ex-daughter in law, Zainab Bint Jahsh (even if he later conveniently "revealed" a passage in the Koran that says it is OK to marry the ex-wives of your adopted sons. This incident, BTW, is the reason that adoption is outlawed in Islam), and a prisoner of war whose husband and father he just had slaughtered, Safiyah Bint Huyeiy Ibn Akhtab, should be enough to settle this issue.

The argument that he "married" for "humanitarian" reasons is absurd since a large number of his wives had intact families and those who had lost their families, Safiyah Bint Huyeiy Ibn Akhtab comes into mind, lost it at the hands of this army. But, hey, other religious figures also had a similar "liking" for females. Solomon comes to mind. However, while the Bible condemns Solomon for his "harem" and states this as one of the reasons for his downfall, the Koran encourages Mohammed in his actions and the Muslims scholars cheer him on (so to speak).

On the issue of the position of Islam on freedom of speech, the answer is quite clear. Islam is incompatible with freedom of speech. This banning of the book, the death thread against Rushdie, the murderous attacks on film makers (Van Gough. e.t.c ) are ample proof of this fact. If the rest of the world has the same attitude, we would not have seen some of Dan Brown's work. Islam is incapable of tolerating freedom of speech (it is also incapable of handling freedom of religion, gender equality, humane treatment of criminals, cutting limbs for stealing is the utmost in barbarism, alternative lifestyles, etc). In short, Islam is incompatible with life in a modern liberal democracy.

Muhammad made love to Aisha when she was six years old. Muhammad was about 52 years old and was having s*x everyday before that with different women. Some say he was suffering from syphilis.

As if making love to a child was not enough, he also slept with his daughter-in-law. The fact is that Muhammad was a sex-crave maniac.

In his short life, some accounts say that Muhammad slept with as many as 125,000 different women.

To this day, muslims treat women as s*x objects.

Muhammad was a murderer and a pedophile. Period.

If muslims were allowed to leave their faith, the would hardly be any muslims left except for the murderous muslim fundamentalists.

Hi LIB- I appreciate that you left the ugly part our of your question.

I'll answer this one since you did that.

Yes, I do. Wasn't that easy?

Now, everyone has seen your list for the past year-
If you insult my religion, my Prophet(pbuh), or myself- I am not going to answer you again. You know the drill-
Only decent manners-

If you post another "did you beat your wife" heavily laden with ugly accusations questions I will just keep ignoring you and you can see by now- that after a year and a half- I mean what I say.

Like this one- I'm going to point out the offensive elemtns so you know for the future-

"2. That the long-dead Arab (OFFENSIVE) did actually talk to the "pretty Gabriel" in the "Gabe" cave(OFFENSIVE) and therein received the warmongering (OFFENSIVE) and anti-female (OFFENSIVE) words now listed in the koran?"

"2. That the Muhammad(pbuh) did actually talk to Gabriel" in the cave and therein received the koran?" (Qur'an)

Without the intentionally derogatory characterizations- it is actually a legitimate question.

With the use of proper names, respectfully given- and no childish attempts to diminish the importance of it by misspelling or implicitly mean insertions- as always- I'm happy to answer sincerely intended queries for info.

You know Lib- I have had suspicion for the good in you for a long time.
Don't let me down.

So here is my question to you.
What changed your belief in angels? I know you believed at one time, what happened?

Quid pro quo.

Victoria, Victoria, Victoria,

Maybe we should review Islamic beliefs in small parts.

Part 1. Do you believe in "pretty, wingie, talking, thingies called angels by some, fairies by others and tinkerbells by still others????????????

Arminius, always a pleasure to see your gentlemanly ways here-

I was pretty careless about the site- there are much better ones out there- I've lost all of my bookmarks recently and am reduced to googles now and admit I did this one pretty quickly-

But it's a side issue.
Ramadan is coming up and I'm starting to read alot more and when I read more- I think more-

I look forward to it as a time when we can dialogue a little more deeply.
Unforunately, 2 Ramadans have passed with barely an acknowledgement of it on these boards- but the Washington Post isn't exactly muslim friendly territory- so I expect it'll go unnoticed again.
You can see plainly that any mention of Islam manifests as an invitation for the xenophobes to vent-

But voices of reason and those with good manners will prevail-

Also, welcome Mr. Ghouse- your input is both reasonable and enjoyed.

This thread has changed into praising Christianity, how great it is and how awful every belief system that is not Christian.

Christianity is no doubt great for people who believe in it. It is not fair to condemn and belittle those who believe in other faiths.

this thread is about Islam generally and about Mohammad marrying Aysha who is young for marriage given today's standards.

Semites at the time did things that are abhorrent based on today's mores.

LOOKS LIKE THE DEATH CULT INDOCTRINATION HE ENDURED AS A CHILD DID NOT WORK OUT AS PLANNED

Hassan tells firsthand how a West Bank Muslim became a West Coast Christian.

"Mosab Hassan Yousef is an extraordinary young man with an extraordinary story. He was born the son of one of the most influential leaders of the militant Hamas organization in the West Bank and grew up in a strict Islamic family.

Now, at 30 years old, he attends an evangelical Christian church, Barabbas Road in San Diego, Calif. He renounced his Muslim faith, left his family behind in Ramallah and is seeking asylum in the United States.

The story of how his life unfolded is truly amazing, whether you agree or disagree with his views.

When asked if he was afraid he will be killed- he said:

"They can't kill my ideas- they are already out. They can kill my body- but they can't kill my soul."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-FkKgsoWro

SAUDI ARABIA: FATHER KILLS CHRISTIAN CONVERT DAUGHTER
(ANSAmed) - DUBAI, AUGUST 13 - A Saudi man, member of the Commission for Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice, has killed his daughter for converting to Christianity, the Gulf News daily reported, without providing details on the identity of the main characters in the case. Sources close to the victim said that the man had cut the tongue of his daughter and set her on fire following a heated debate on religion, the newspaper published in Dubai writes. The brother of the victim found in the woman's computer some articles on Christianity she had written on various blogs and regional websites under a nickname and the symbol of the cross. That discovery made her family life unbearable, the woman wrote on the 'Al Ukdoud' website a few days before her death. According to a testimony of a friend of the victim reported by the 'Free Copts' website, the father is arrested by the police and investigation has started against him for an "honour crime". The honour crimes, perpetrated by a male member of the family against a woman of the same clan to "wipe out the shame of the dishonour" from her indecorous behaviour, are generally punished with mild sentences ranging between six months and three years in jail. (ANSAmed).

Mike Ghouse,

You are wrong. All you have to do is study the Bible and the Qur'an and you will see that the Jesus seen in the Bible is not the same Jesus that is described in the Qur'an.

As far as being a fanatic for Jesus I am. He is my King, my Lord, and my life. All people are fans of something what do you live for. Name it and that is what you worship.

The "liberated one" appears to be chained to the propaganda.It is time to get freedom from it.
Who cooked this up for you?

1. Paranormal things are mentioned in every faith – Moses parted the sea, Jesus walked on the water, Hanuman brought the mountains. Believing or not, does not make difference to the other, but for the believer it is fine. It is all about faith, if you don't like it, that is your problem.

2. Looks like you are a God’s warrior set out to hate others, and create chaos. Man you are bonded with this hate thingies.

3. Neither Sunnis are Superior to Shia or vice versa. Qur’aan is clear about it; every one who does well to the mankind is assured a place in heaven. One does not have to be a Muslim and no one has exclusive rights to the Creator.

4. God forgives every one who asks for it. In fact, the creator says, the one who forgives is dearest to me.

5. Multiple wives were allowed for the social needs of the community, it came with a lot of restriction, and it is not about lust. If you are honest and open to learn, let me know. I will send you the articles to think about it. It is not needed at all.

6. Ayaan Hirsi Ali perhaps had a bad childhood. Women around the world and home can understand that, even those that have been abused do not seek justice, but endure the pain. Blaming the religion or the ethnicity is downright dumb thing to do; it is the evil in individuals that cause them to do bad things. We should not fall for blaming the religion for the evils of men.

Victoria,

Well, you are getting beat up here way too much. The posters should be kinder, but many (not all) are simply bigots.

I am more than willing to give Islam a big benefit of the doubt. However, I am rather ignorant of it, beyond the Five Pillars and some of the history. There seems to be just as much conflict there as in Christianity - I suppose I should not be surprised. I have tried reading the Qu'ran, but find it exceedingly difficult. My judgment of Islam is based on the Muslims that I have known, and they have all been hugely decent people. So I don't know where to turn from here.

I am tired of the bomb throwing here, the puerile ranting, the adolescent insults. Yes, Victoria, let's send the kids out to the playground and have an adult conversation.

ATT: G A R Y,

Under APOCALYPTARiAN 'Holy Cosmic Feelings Faith' [Ho-Co-Fe-Fa] System, THAT

the SPORADES(lady's) will Lead This Holy Cosmic Space-Ship GEOiD (ERTH, GAiA, TELLUSnf something..), including their MAVORiTEs (Gents) for the Next 26,000 Years! Until the Next EQUONOX-ALLiGNMENT Occurs!

"IT" is ECLAT{i}-ON Prophecy! And also foretold in atleast All the 5-five Major Pre-Apocalyptic "iNFiXUS-BOOKS" (Tenach, Bible, Quran, Gita, Kangyurs, or Tripitaka...)

Behold HUE{MATE} Potentiate. It will all start to occur On January 1st, 2013 & beyond!, aka the Begining of the AQUARiUS-AGE (new-Song) comming from All O.U.R. Old-Songs (PiSCES-AGE)!

iMPORTANTO: This has Zero to do with any SuperStupidStitious ASTRO-iLOGY or ZODiCal Thinking!

But rather, JUSTLY, For a 'TiME' (via Holy 'TEMPERATURE', not Clock or space time Thinking) in ASTRO-NOMY or COSMOLOGY & or BIO-ASTRONOMY thinking & "TRANS{FiNiTY}" [aka YE REALiTY on a Holy Cosmic Immortal Move for another Eschatological Possibilities of O.U.R. selves) Awareness!

Victoria, Victoria, Victoria,

You sit in judgement of others when you cannot even answer the following poll/survey questions???

Do you believe :

1. In "pretty/ugly wingie"/paranormal thingies?

2. That the long-dead Arab did actually talk to the "pretty Gabriel" in the "Gabe" cave and therein received the warmongering and anti-female words now listed in the koran?

3. That Sunnis are superior to Shiites in all aspects of life?

4. That Islam is perfect and the koran inherently condones no sin even though the 24/7 800 year-old feud between Sunnis and Shiites give significant credence that suicides, assassinations, maiming, and murder are condoned by the koran?

5. That having multiple wives also gives significant credence to the sins of lust and polygamy?

6. That the condoned treatment of these wives gives credence that the koran allows the sins of anger and greed?

7. And that Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s book, Infidel, is her autobiography and that in the paperback issue, p. 47 the statement:

"Some of the Saudi women in our neighborhood were regularly beaten by their husbands. You could hear them at night. Their screams resounded across the courtyards. "No! Please! By Allah!" is the truth?????

According to Muhammad, women lack common sense because their minds are deficient. Of course, this declaration didn’t go unchallenged. To his credit, Muhammad allowed women to question him about their intellectual deficiencies. His response to these questions was illuminating:

Muhammad said: O womenfolk, you should give charity and ask much forgiveness for I saw you in bulk amongst the dwellers of Hell. A wise lady among them said: Why is it, Messenger of Allah, that our folk is in bulk in Hell? Upon this the Holy Prophet observed: You curse too much and are ungrateful to your spouses. I have seen none lacking in common sense and failing in religion but at the same time robbing the wisdom of the wise, besides you. Upon this the woman remarked: What is wrong with our common sense and with religion? The self-proclaimed prophet of the Arabic Allah observed: Your lack of common sense can be well judged from the fact that the evidence of two women is equal to one man, that is a proof of the lack of common sense

The self-proclaimed prophet (the blessing and peace of the Arabic god Allah be upon him) said: "Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said: "Yes." He said: "This is because of the deficiency of her mind."

Notice here that, in the first passage, Muhammad justifies his claim that women lack common sense by stating that their testimony is worth half that of a man. Yet, in the second passage, Muhammad justifies his claim that the testimony of women is half as good as men’s testimony by stating that women have deficient minds. This is a classic example of circular reasoning. We can imagine a conversation between Muhammad and a more critical questioner:

Questioner: "O Muhammad! Why is Hell full of women?"
Muhammad: "Because they lack common sense!"
Questioner: "How do you know they lack common sense?"
Muhammad: "Their lack of common sense can be seen from the fact that their testimony is only half as good as a man’s testimony."
Questioner: "But why is their testimony half as good as a man’s?"
Muhammad: "Because of the deficiency of their minds!"
Questioner: "How do you know that their minds are deficient?"
Muhammad: "The deficiency of their minds can be seen from the fact that their testimony is worth half the testimony of a man."
Questioner: "Again, why is their testimony half as good?"
Muhammad: "Because their minds are deficient!"
Questioner: "Maybe the only thing deficient here is your argument."

Notice also that Muhammad’s claims here are falsifiable. That is, they can be tested and, in theory, disproved. We could easily set up an experiment to see whether Muhammad’s statements about the inferiority of a woman’s intellect are correct. We could also set up an experiment in which a group of men and a group of women each witness the same accident. If the testimonies gathered from the male group are twice as accurate as the testimonies taken from the female group, Muhammad’s statements will have been vindicated. On the other hand, if the reports from the two groups are similar, we can dismiss Muhammad’s ideas as the sexist comments of a man.

Over 90 per cent of muslims are illiterate and living in poverty. Many would like to leave Islam but know that apostates are killed immediately.
This world would be a much better place to live if there were no muslims.

The science of hadeeth is a very strict one.
Quit distracting from the issues at hand. You have presented your 4 ahadeeth- I have presented countless refutations and reasonings that clearly discredit you.

If you have a point to make on topic, pick a name, any name, and do so. These boards are not for childish sniping and arguments-

We can agree to disagree and let the adults continue with their discussion.

Sherry Jones should put her book up on the net. The truth about Muhammad should be told. The tale of how an illiterate arab boy created a religion to satisfy his lust makes for an interesting story.

99 per cent of the terrorists in the world are muslims. Unless Islam undergoes a reformation, it will eventually implode.

Victoria--

Are you a new revert and you believe a lie or are you using the Islamic practice of lying to unbelievers to fool the readers about Aisha - the child bride of Mohammed?

Check out the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia Ministry of Islamic Affairs, Endowments, Da‘wah and Guidance site. Do you feel they are mistaken and are telling an untruth?

Home Page > PROPHETIC HADITHS > MARRIAGE > IT IS PERMISSIBLE FOR THE FATHER TO GIVE THE HAND OF HIS DAUGHTER IN MARRIAGE EVEN WHEN SHE IS NOT FULLY GROWN UP > Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted

HADITH # 806

'A'ishah, may Allah be pleased with her, reported:

Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine. She further said: We went to Medina and I had an attack of fever for a month, and my hair had come down to the earlobes. Umm Ruman (my mother) came to me and I was at that time on a swing along with my playmates. She called me loudly and I went to her and I did not know what she had wanted of me. She took hold of my hand and took me to the door and I was saying: Ha, ha (as if I was gasping), until the agitation of my heart was over. She took me to a house, where had gathered some women of the Ansar. They all blessed me and wished me good luck and said: May you have share in good. She (my mother) entrusted me to them. They washed my head and embellished me and nothing frightened me. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) came there in the morning, and I was entrusted to him.

Hadith number in Sahih Muslim [Arabic only]: 2547

http://hadith.al-islam.com/bayan/Display.asp?Lang=eng&ID=806

Aisha was six years old and Muhammad was 52 years old when he made love to her. Now isn't that the most disgusting thing in the world.

The terrorist They Call "president" Is The Enemy Of Humanity!!

I forgot to say this. What we, Muslims, need to do is ACCUSE them of their CRIMES. Why are you debating with CRIMINALS??

The Terrorist They Call "president" Is The Enemy Of Humanity!!

I don't know why any self-respecting Muslim would want to talk to christians and jews. These people hate Muslims with a passion. Let them hate. Let them choke on their bile. Don't give them the opening they are looking for. They WILL NEVER debate with you, dear fellow Muslim. They want to BEAT you, kill you, mass murder your babies, women and infirm. Their stinking troops are already doing this. They are NOT troops, they are more like crime gangs.

Would you talk or debate with a rapist?

That's how I look at it. Why talk to someone who kills you and then calls you in the most degrading way "collateral damage"." The language they use when the subject is Muslims and Islam shows you the depth of their stinking hate.

I say let them choke on their hate. Their bile will kill them. Don't talk to them!!!!! Or "debate" them"!!!!!

Victoria,

I had a look at one of the sites you listed about the possible age of Aisha. Although convoluted, it sounded like decent scholarship, and convinced me at the very least that the jury is still out on this.

Of course the Islam-hating bigots will continue their shrill rants, since they are not interesting in any conflicting evidence.

"Aisha is acknowledged as being about 15-19 years old when she married Muhammad(pbuh)."

VICTORIA:

LOL! This idea never even crossed anybody's mind until the latter half of the 20th century. Until then, for many many centuries every Muslim knew full well that Aisha was married at 6/7 and the marriage was sexually consummated at age 9.

Then suddenly this century, after some Muslim countries became modernized and the idea of such a young marriage and sexual relationship became appalling to many- a new theory emerges that the hadith (despite being credible under every orthodox test) is somehow mistaken.

NONSENSE..

Straight from the most central and trusted Sunni hadith collection: "“The Messenger of God married me when I was seven; my marriage was consummated when I was nine.” If you throw that out, you have to throw out the reliability of *every* hadith.

Or if that hadith is not enough for you, from the Sahih Muslim: "A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.""

Or maybe you would prefer the Sunan Abu Dawud?: "‘A’ishah said : The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) married me when I was seven years old. The narrator Sulaiman said : Or six years. He had intercourse with me when I was nine years old."

Perhaps the Sunan Nas'ai: "A'ishah said: The Apostle of Allah peace be upon him married her when she was six and had intercourse with her when she was nine. (Sunan Nas’ai, Book of Marriage, no.3255)."

AMAZING..

Interestingly the current legal age for marriage of girls in Iran (which cares much less about revising Islamic history to accord with modern sentiments) --- is 9. And why not? If it's good enough for Mohammed as stated in the most reliable hadiths, then it's evidently good enough for any Muslim.

AMH,

you have a grudge against islam. fine! hate is often the enemy of truth. i feel i have to save you from yourself.

again, it is culture you are talking about, not islam.

the thing that i do not udnerstand is why muslims , say, in yemen, afghanistan etc would not raise their objections to such tribal custom.

again, my purspose is to build channels of accomodation with others through logical analysis: it is culture not religion that permits gils to be married to men.

it is up to you to hate if you insist on being not logical as well as illogical.

good discussion requires that we are neutral emotively.

Aisha is acknowledged as being about 15-19 years old when she married Muhammad(pbuh).

By using known ages of her contemparies and their comparsions to her- there are many insances where her age is easily idnetified.

http://www.muslim.org/islam/aisha-age.htm

http://wlsis.org/multimedia/ageofaisha.htm

2 links are all that can be posted-

If someone presents an argument and I find that the new information is reasonable- as a reasoning person, I can accept it.

I'm quite sure that those who have a paranoia about Islam, and a fearful and prejudiced desire to simply defame will continue to do so.

If contested to prove their contention, that Aisha was 6 or 9 years old- they only have a few sayings by some who left Islam and fought against Aisha- and no more. In other words- enemies of Aisha the person.

But their hatred for the followers of the historical figure of the Prophet(pbuh)(Muslims) compels them to assert this.

It is not to them that I offer this info- as their minds are already entrenched- but there are some people in these boards who may take the time to investigate the truth, or lie about this issue.

"It is more productive to debate cultural issues than religious issues that are basically cultural."

The founder of Islam married Aisha when she was six years old and consummated the marriage (first had sex with her) when she was nine years old and he was fifty-four.

The issue of pedophilia (practiced in some cultures as "child brides") is forever tied to the Islamic religion.

Center tells Anonymous:
"not every practice muslims do are sanctioned by islam."

Maybe not, but this particular practice(child marriage) is sanctioned by Islam. If their prophet practiced it, and he is regarded as the perfect model for Muslim behavior, then it is(Halal) sanctioned.

Anonymous:
youtube you posted below tells part of the story. Afghanistan is not the only tribal society that practices marrying 12 yr olds to men. There are girls in yemen, 12, who are being divorced from their husbands...I bet there are many in other places that suffer in silence.

this cultural practice is immoral. We, however, should separate religion from culture, such as marrying young girls to men.

not every practice muslims do are sanctioned by islam. It is more productive to debate cultural issues than religious issues that are basically cultural.

Again, The Real Islam - 101 (no fictional books needed)

Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, who also had embellishing/hallucinating/ plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" aka "pretty, wingie, talking, thingies" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

This agenda continues as shown by the assassination of Bhutto, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/ mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, and the Filipino “koranics”.

And who funds this muck and stench of terror? The warmongering, Islamic, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

Current crises:

The Sunni-Shiite blood feud and the warmongering, womanizing (11 wives), hallucinating founder.

Added reading material- Ayaan Hirsi Ali's autobiography, "Infidel".

An excerpt:

"The kind on thinking I saw in Saudi Arabia and among the Brotherhood of Kenya and Somalia, is incompatible with human rights and liberal values. It preserves the feudal mind-set based on tribal concepts of honor and shame. It rests on self-deception, hyprocricy, and double standards. It relies on the technologial advances of the West while pretending to ignore their origin in Western thinking. This mind-set makes the transition to modernity very painful for all who practice Islam".
p. 347, paperback.

Farnaz:
"Oh, please. This is paranoia writ large."

I read Wall Street Journal monday-saturday. I challege Farnaz to refer readers to one instance where Wall Street Journal in the last 3 years had an article that did not blame Muslims and Islam when topic is related Muslim & Islam. Then figure out who is paranoid.
Robert

Aisha's story must be told. This video shows her legacy in today's world:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaQ456a7E-M

"A 12 year old girl is married off to an obviously older male. The girl is begging for help, for mercy from a man who is both sexually assaulting her and who is physically abusing her.

Her cries will never be heard or addressed. There are no rights for children or women in Afghanistan.

http://www.rawa.org/index.php does try to make a difference, but their founder was martyred (a woman of course). Unfortunately, young girls are married off in Afghanistan frequently to older men.

And why not?

Mohammed, the alleged prophet of Islam, married a child at the age of 6, consummating the relationship with her sexually at age 9.

The Quran permits pedophilia through child marriages."

The statement, "To me debate is a good thing...." may be true in most cases, but I think you "debate" religious issues. You can debate facts, but you can't debate religious issues since they are based on beliefs no facts. You can discuss religion and your beliefs about religion, but when you talk beliefs discussion soon turns to arguments that go no where.

MARY and AYISHA.

honorable virigin chaste mary ,born and raised in an honorable trustworthy phrophetic family ,yet when she deliverd ISSA(jesus) and despite the fact that jesus spoke in the cradel declaring himself to be a miracle and a messenger from the god to mankind ,yet people called her an adultrious and called her son a bastard!!!

honorable ayisha ,born and raised in a pious trustworthy family honorable enough to be a beliver in the allmighty god and the messenger of allmighty god and a wife of the messenger of allmighty god ,yet hatefull ignorant rumorage gospeage heads never left her alone but to call the trusworthy bright young lady a fonicator!!!

QURAN,s 22 v 15,
whoever thinks that ALLAH will not help him(muhammed)in this world and in the hereafter ,let him stretch out a rope to the ceiling and let him strangle himself. then let him see whether his plan will remove that whereat he rages!

1-to whomever hate the truth or block the truth or vent and rumor his/her grey rotten hate and cloud the truth ,the above verse suggest the following :

plan A,
stretch a rope all the way to the creator the god the source of the truth and see if you can switch it off and root it out ,if you can make it to the ceiling of the world!

plan b,
strtech a rope to your immediate ceiling and strangle yourself up.

Goose says:
“As American Muslims, we don’t need an opinion from the Mufti of Al-Azhar; it is our life, our nation and our society.”

You keep repeating that you are an American Muslim. There is no such thing as any country Muslim. Muslim is a Muslim is a Muslim. He might be living in Russia or Australia but he will never be Russian or Australian. His loyalty is to the Sharia that does not recognize any political authority other than itself. Stop pontificating and stop the deception

INITIAL REPLY TO MIKE GHOUSE:

I wanted to acknowledge your comment and let you know that I have read it, since one major point of my original post was my observation on the unwillingness of Muslims to engage in dialogue, and, in particular, to respond to my standard five questions about Islam. I appreciate your taking the time to do so.

I do not have time right now to respond in more detail, but I intend to do so shortly. My continuing problem: the attitude toward democracy held and preached by the authoritative voices of Islam.

I do have one quick question: Where did you come up with the statement that 75% of all Muslims live in a democratic country? I presume that would have to include Indonesia, which does, after all, have the world's largest Muslim population--by far. It would hardly be reassuring that a country that was ruled for all of about one decade by some of the most authoritarian thugs on earth; where democracy is barely hanging on by its finger tips; and where "Muslim" does not mean the same thing as in Saudi Arabia or Yemen, is being included in a statistic that is trotted out to prove the compatibility of Islam and democracy. Surely the most relevant questions would be: To what extent did Islam promote democracy in Indonesia? And to what extent is Indonesia democratic precisely because Islam there is less rigid and doctrinaire than in the Middle East and South Asia?

And how many Western countries are included to come up with that 75%?

I really can't figure why my name didn't show up as I typed it in and it ususally shows up after the first letter- mybe a tech glitch- the lastpost was mine.

A salaamu alaikum-
All that I know of this writer or her book is the short paragraph circulating-
I wasn’t born around or trained with a love for the Prophet(pbuh). It was a thing that grew and was cultivated by becoming familar with his story, and actions related through ahadeeth and some Qur’an- and people too, but mostly reading.

His life and responses answered so many questions and experiences about injustice for me- the differences between men and women- we really do think differently in many ways- protecting the weak, which I have certainly been and took pacifism to an extreme in my life- small aspects of social interaction which translate into larger interactions- from individuals to societies- finding a balance between the needs of the individual against the needs of the holistic society-

So- to see our Rasul portrayed in yet another indelicate and maybe degrading light- seems to perpetuate the “your prophet is a pedophile womanizer driven mad by lust” propganda which so permeates America- a sentiment driven by the basest and ugliest of motives- pure prejudice and fear-

I don’t know what this woman’s book contained- but I do know that when I research historical figures- especially religious ones with whom so many have an emotional attachment to- I take extra care to be sensitive to those who love said figure-

I realize that my reaction may be motivated by some emotions too- but they are good emotions, valuable and loving ones- with a desire to see justice and truth- just as I would feel for myself or a family memeber or loved one-

It would hurt me to see a loved one maligned-
Just because a reaction has some emotional attachment behind it doesn’t mean it is not worthy of consideration.

And just as I would speak for any person I felt unfairly represented- even a stranger- how much more should I speak for and supporting of one whose legacy deserves better treatment.

If the book is, as Ms. Nomani contends- an account that tells the story of Aisha in an empowering and positive way- that is wonderful. But Aisha loved Muhammad(pbuh), was an adult when she married- and it is unlikely that Aisha herself would be pleased with such a characterization.

Personally- let the lady write her book- and I will be better equipped to support, or critique it, as it deserves.

"Get with the ordinary folks, they are all fine. The problem is not between Muslims and Christians or Hindus or Buddhists, it is between the few extremists and all of us together."

MIKE GHOUSE, that is close to the nuttiest thing I've heard today. What are the fine "ordinary folks" supposed to do. Stand holding hands and singing under a rainbow as birds sing and bunnies hop aroung their feet?

Did you know the founders of America who wrote our Declaration of Independence and Constitution were known as passionate revolutionaries?

How long have you been here again? You're not thinking like an American. I know many immigrants who haved longed for the freedom of America and worked long and hard to come be an American. They learn and love all things American.

Maybe you should work on your cultural assimilation?

Ma'ha'bar [Hello] again Rabbi T A Y L O R:

iNTERESTiNG:

RECOMENDATiON: Even though in sweet sweet U.S. of, that SECUALR GOV regulates 1-Marriage , but not regulate How many Baby's a married couple can have; THAT

Like CHiNA,

that SAUDi ARABiA, IRAN , iNDiA et al, should 'enforce', via the 'Modern Religion Police" (Hypoyhetical speaking ), the

"1-Couple, ONE CHiLD" Rules!

Example: If "i" Hath 4-Wives (max Allowed? by Islam) then 1-child Each should be the Norm!

TRiViA: Did YE knowth that OSAMA BiN LADEN hath 52 Children????

HiNT: All Islamics & Hindus Too, should enforce that One Child Per Couple Rule too!

WHY? Because Today, via Internet World, that All Potentiate HUE{MATE}'s must think GLOBALLY & Act LOCALLY! And Tribalizm is got's to Go forever on this Holy Cosmic Theater!

Inshalah, Allah Karim!

--- BY: YAKUB YOZIV. an

ORM, O.rdained R.elationship M.inister, Revelator & Defender of the 'Holy Cosmic Feeler Faith, aka 'Ho-Co-Fe-Fa' System; a belief like a religion, yet better that‘s based on TRUTH (opposite of MYTH Systems) & a Lover’s of the "O.U.R.-B.O.T.", aka the Holy-Cosmic Bible, ala "O.ne U.niversal R.eligion B.ook O.f T.rans{Finity}" aka “The RELiGiON of Everything before the SCiENCE of Everything” like-a-dat. Finally!

---

PEACE, Paz, Shalom , Salaam, Ahimsa, Zhengyu..

cc: Asra NO-MAN-i.

INDONESIANS LOSING FAITH IN DEMOCRACY

"IT has been 10 years since 35-year-old "Omen" Abdul Rahman led thousands of students to oust President Suharto's autocratic regime, paving the way to turn Indonesia into the world's third largest democracy.

But Abdul Rahnan, the former student activist, will not be participating in next year's democratic elections which he helped usher in.

"I am going to golput. I believe the number of people who are going to golput is going to be big as their lives have not improved at all," he says.

Golput is the Indonesian term for abstention from voting. It stands for Golongan Putih or "White Group" as the members use a piece of white cloth, in contrast to the colourful flags of the political parties, as a symbol of their disillusion with the political system.

Politicians and analysts worry over the potentially low voter turnout which will result in a weak administration with little power to govern, enforce law or implement policies.

They also worry that the people's disappointment will be exploited by Muslim radicals to push for an Islamic state, arguing that democracy is a Western product which has failed the people."

Terrorism, Oppression and killing of civilians must be condemned by one and all. Muslims condemn these dudes much more than any one else; as it violates the rights of others and also stains their faith unjustly. The biggest villlians of Muslims are the Bin Ladens.

As many Muslims want to dominate the world, as the number of necons in the world. They are all insane brothers in this game of frightening people. Get with the ordinary folks, they are all fine. The problem is not between Muslims and Christians or Hindus or Buddhists, it is between the few extremists and all of us together.

Mike Ghouse

Dear Idolator;

I hope you have not bought the propaganda of our Neocon gang "they hate the Westerners" and it was odd that you added their trade mark "scary". That is what they want to do, frighten us and cash in. It is profitable to them and we are suckers to fund them, instead of funding activities that will mitigate conflicts.

No, they do not hate us, some do. Once Bush is gone, we will regain what we have lost in the last six years “A nation of caring people, who honored and respected other's right to be who they are". Didn’t we hate the Russians, the Chinese, the Saddam and the Ayotallah, did we hate their people? No. Likewise they do not hate us, they hate our administrations aggressions, not us, the Americans.

Don't we have murders, rapes etc going on in our own nation. Check the stats. Do we want to label them with a religion? If not, then why label other criminals with a religion?

Mike Ghouse

So many Muslims say they are radicalized when they see Westerners killing Muslims (although a lot more are killed by Muslims themselves) but they do not feel angry at Muslims or their religion for acts like 9.11 and daily massacres of civilians.

All the history and religion is irrelavant. Present is where we live. Just read newspapers to see Muslims massacring civilians every day in different parts of the world. Millions of Muslims are migrating to Western countries but they hate the Westerners. Very scary.

Hello Si{STAR} G A B Y,

Hello J O N,

Hello BRiGHT F A R N Z, et al

Technically, one honorable way for the 'Author' to go around [the Prevention of TRUTH (opposite of MYTH), via Pre-Apocalyptarian Jealousy's) this is to

Publish Their 'Manuscript' in "SAMIZDAT" Edition/Foem! Yes, to SAMiZDATiZE 'The Word'!

Please see Wicco linko here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samizdat

This Means that 'Portland journalist Sherry Jones' can release it in SAMiZDAT edition for All the World to Print at Whim, like the Elders of Zion books that's been Zamizdatized (No Plagiarizm involved) through-out the Islamic 'WAHABi-be' World!

[EXCERPT]: After AYATOLLA Ruhollah Khomeini was exiled by the Shah of Iran in 1964, his sermons were smuggled into Iran on cassette tapes and widely copied, increasing his popularity and leading, in part, to the IRAN Revolution.

Poland has a long history of underground press.

After Bell Labs changed its UNIX license to make dissemination of the source code illegal, the Lions Book had to be withdrawn, but the technical data it contained was of such enormous value that illegal copies of it circulated for years. The act of copying the Lions book was often referred to as Samizdat. See Lions' Commentary on UNIX 6th Edition, with Source Code for more information.

Note: Because the EVILGELiCAL-ARMY in America & the Satanic Sura loving black "Nation of Islami" in America et al Jewalous folks, that

O.U.R. American Prophet's [pbuh et al] Book , also known as the 'BiSHIP OF TELLUS, aka Joktanian MAITREYA, aka Joktanian MAHDi, aka the DELiVEROR, aka The PHOTON/light BRiNGER of The APOCALYPSE On Space-SAhip EARTH(s), who's book entitled ,The "BOOK OF TRANS{FiNiTY}" ,is also a Samizdat Edition!

As a Matter of Fact, at the End of the Book "SHi{LOH}", HARRY W. THERiAULT [pbuh et al], last words iS

[next to lastCaption:] "ZYGOMANTRA"

"NO one shall,//Ever Withhold//The BOOK OF TRANS{FiNiTY}//From ANY-One who seeks IT [Eclat+"i"]"

AND

[last Caption] "IT" WiLL FiNALLY WiN"

"If ye ever Flout TRANS{FiNiTY}//Here is the Bad News: "IT" (G-d is never not a HE/SHE) will finally WiN//Amnd You will finally LOOSE!"

B.O.T.: 48:46, 53:6, 54:1 et seq.

---

Interesting: In Islamic Nations like SYRiA, IRAN, SAUDi et al, they

[ iSLAMic vinriloquist ELDERS of the secretive internation religio 'AL TAQiYAH"ists, aka Judeo-Islamic-Zionists, not Judeo-JU or Judeo-Christs or Judeo-Hindu or Judeo-Buddhists..CONSPiRATOR's, ACTORs etc..]

Promote that UNANYMOUS so called "PROTOCOLS OF ZiON [Elders].." An Anti Judeo-Ju Zionist Book written around or not long, the TiMe of KARL MARK, A Lazy Bum and a Dialectic "ATHEiST", not a Humanist "SECULARiST". Please do not mix the Two. Thank-a-sham.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion

[EXCERPT]: According to Daniel Pipes,

"The great importance of the Protocols lies in its permitting antisemites to reach beyond their traditional circles and find a large international audience, a process that continues to this day. The forgery poisoned public life wherever it appeared; it was "self-generating; a blueprint that migrated from one conspiracy to another

---

Note: Atleast Si{STAR} Sherry JONES can Samizdat, but be "GLASNOST" (OPENESS}about it, so to Speaketh Truth (opposite of MYTHological man made System via Storys).

Please see About 'RANDOM HOUSE' here:
http://en .wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_House

WE ECLAT{i} JOKTAN Eberu Nationals of America, SALUTE Ms. Sherry Jones & Similary Situated good folks. i.e, and like Authors of 'SATANiC VERSUS'Mr. RUSHDi et al!

---
HUGGS n KiSS's to ALL da BRiGHT(s), aka MAVORiTE(s), & Si{STAR}s' , aka SPORADES, on Holy Cosmic NEBULA Built, MA/PA Space-Ship EARTH! So Then,

PEACE, Paz, Shalom, Salaam, Ahimsa, Zhengyu etc..

Thank You for YE TiME (via TEMPERATURE, justly only for a clock time)

By: The JOKTAN-NATiONAL(s) Creature-Kinds [MOVEMENT] in U.S.A. & Beyond.

Note: Ye Can't Stop Us!

"IT" is the PROPHECY as Aleady (From long Ago) that hath been Promised Us HUE{MATE}'s, not ye HUMAN's,, as "O.U.R. iNHERiTENCE" for our Future-Bound & Space-Forth Thinkers via O.U.R. MEMETiC's & not Yours anymore!

Hence: "iNHERiTORS, LOVERS & VANGUARDS of S.pace-S.hip Earth)s) of Many! not Quran, nor Bible not Gita not Tripitaks et al!

BEHOLD! "The HOL{i}-NO-MEN consents, but Only For a TiME" (not clock or space time thinking, Feeleing)!

- Said by OUR Joktan-ian American Born MAHDi & by Many Names. [pbuh et al]!

Dear halozcel:

"*75% of Muslims in the world live in democracies*
Would you please to write those *Democratic Muslim Countries*"

Indonesia, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Malaysia, India, Turkey, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Nigeria, Thailand....USA, UK, Australia, France, South Africa to name a few,( I’m not sure about Afghanistan and Iraq yet) that sums up close to 75%.

"To me, correct word should be *Does Muslim know what Democracy is*"

The answer is yes! You may want to take time to study on your own rather than believing what is dished out there.

"*Religiously all women have their rights*
Yes, correct. Woman in Islam has right to open her legs, nothing else."

The issue about women is not religion but men; it is about those ugly insecure men found from America to Zimbabwe, Atheist to Zoroastrians, Blacks to white and every one in between.

Women suffer the same in all groups, even in America there is pay differential, accepting women in leadership roles. Yes many guys beat up their women and kill about the same number of women as others. Look at the global stats on violence against women. Yes men in some of the Islamic societies find an excuse to push their ideas on women, it is bad, and so do the ugly men all over the world in one fashion or the other.

It is wrong to paint it as Muslim thing, it is THE MEN. Our media likes to label other killings with a religion, where as our killing as violent men.

History;

"-Bloody Mary/Mary Tudor was Queen of England in 1553 and Elizabeth I in 1558.
-Margot was the Queen of France in sixteen centuries (She is one who slept all men in the Palace)
-Catharine, Queen of Russia. German Girl who said *I begot three children and none of them from my husband*(oooovvvv).Pedro (King of Russia and her husband) you are the greatest."

I appreciate the above info. Razia Sultan also ruled India in the 11th century, and there were a few more in Egypt and elsewhere.

My friend, the problem is the individuals, not the religion. Get to the source to solve the problem, and you will. Aiming at religion is a useless activity; religion is not a tangible thing to knock down.

Mike Ghouse
www.WorldMuslimCongress.com

shanavas:

"Muslims do not recognize and resist the provocation and the “trap” set by those who stage-manage Muslims religious sensitivities. Western media know what makes Muslims to go on rampage. Their cleverly formulated sting operations successfully lead to insult and humiliation of Muslims."
-----------------------------------
Oh, please. This is paranoia writ large. Satires on Jews and Christians, offensive cartoons, movies, etc., abound--these and much worse. I can't recall the last time either group went on "a rampage," nor do I believe any conspiracies were afoot.

The case with Jones's book as presented here is different. It appears to be a serious historic reconstruction not so very different from those written by Christians on the life of Jesus.

As far as I'm concerned, we could do without all of the satires, and, particularly, without all the anti-Jewish racist texts and films so prevalent in the Middle East. I'd be happy to name several, if you'd like.

Only increased sensitivity and a commitment to tolerance can help eliminate such
"works," and I include the less offensive satires and paintings here. In the meantime Jones's book appears to be another matter.

Muslims do not recognize and resist the provocation and the “trap” set by those who stage-manage Muslims religious sensitivities. Western media know what makes Muslims to go on rampage. Their cleverly formulated sting operations successfully lead to insult and humiliation of Muslims.

Recently, all across the world, many followers of Prophet Muhammad were insulting their Prophet by their knee-jerk response to the provocative western media's Muslim baiting. Muslims were attacking embassies, burning newspapers, threatening journalists, issuing bomb threats, and promoting suicide bombing. Still, they claim that they are defending their Prophet. These measures do not comply with the values of an ideal community whose Prophet is described in the divine scriptures as a Mercy to Humankind.

At this moment of extreme sadness, Muslims must read the Qur’an for guidance, consolation, and self-control. Prophet Muhammad was insulted and ridiculed on a regular and daily basis during his lifetime. He was even called a liar by his enemies. His opponents mocked his message that challenged status quo. They even tried to assassinate him in order to silence him for ever. The Prophet, however, did not get angry or react with emotional outbursts to these provocations at any stage of this ordeal. Instead, he offered a prayer of forgiveness to those who showed contempt for him. He indeed set an unparalleled example of patience and fortitude. He forgave Hind .b. Utubah who killed and mutilated Hamza (r). After Prophet’s victorious entry to Mecca He gave general amnesty to all who fought him and Islam including Utubah.

Similarly, the following verses guide Muslims to tailor Islamic conduct when the ignorant shower insult on their Prophet and Islam.

“And verily messengers before you were mocked but in the end, the mockers were overwhelmed by the very thing they ridiculed.” [Qur'an 21:41.]

“You shall most certainly be tried in your possessions and in your persons; and indeed you shall hear many hurtful things from those to whom revelation was granted before your time, as well as from those who have come to ascribe divinity to other beings beside God. But if you remain patient in adversity and conscious of Him - this, behold, is something to set one's heart upon.” [Qur'an 3:186]

“Indulge [people] with forgiveness, [accepting] what issues spontaneously from people's manners [of behavior], and do not scrutinize them, and enjoin kindness, decency, and turn away from the ignorant, and do not counter their stupidity with the like.” [Qur'an 7:199]

“When you see those who engage in discourse about Our signs, the Qur'an, in mockery, turn away from them, and do not sit with them, until they discourse on some other topic…”[Qur'an 6:68]

Here, the Qur’an counsels us, Muslims: Divine messages, Prophet Muhammad, and the prophets before him were ridiculed; Muslims will hear many hurtful and painful things; do not scrutinize the ignorant or counter their stupidity with similar means, but extend kindness and decency to them; do not resort to intimidation and violence against mockers but leave them alone, be patient, and conscious of compassionate God.

All the above verses illustrate that angry or violent response to those who ridicule Muslims or prophets or the Qur’an is not an Islamic axiom. In fact, the Qur’an calls upon Muslims to extend patience and tolerance towards mockers. According to the verses, if Muslims ignore the ignorant and let them express their ignorance freely, the mockers will be "overwhelmed by the very thing they ridiculed."

None of the verses mention of the abridgement of non-Muslim’s right for free speech even if it is painful, insulting, and indecent. In fact, the right of free speech is abridged for Muslims in painful situations because they are expected to ignore the mockers and make a polite exit from the scene. Muslims have no divine mandate to stop the mockery by force or intimidation. Therefore, Muslims must accept that free speech is an Islamic principle and is to be held with high regard. Human right for free speech is not a gift from the East or the West. It is a divine gift and a mercy for humanity.

Muslims must remember that "verily messengers before you [Muhammad] were mocked" and let Muslims pray, forgive, and educate contemporary scoffers of their beloved Prophet and pray for human decency and free speech with responsibility and respect for people of all faiths.

Finally, it is not for the Muslims on the earth but it is for God to call the mockers to account on the Day of Judgment: “Say to those who believe [ie., Muslims] that they forgive those who do not hope for God’s days, that He may reward a people for what they earned. Whoso does righteousness, it is to his own gain, and whoso does evil, it is his own loss; then to your Lord you shall be returned.” [Qur’an 45:14-15]

Dear Jon;

I have taken a stand againt part of the public Sharia, which is about relations between oneself and the others; whereas private Sharia is about the relations between the creator and humans, it is how one connects with the lord.

I have not condemned the book publication either. I wish you taken the time to at least read this thread, or learn about others before you make the comment about them. You have made too many assumptions.

This particular thread is about the book. Why was it pulled, censorship or profitability?

Your comment saddens me, we the moderates (of all faiths) have a lot of work to do; to mitigate ill-will and nurture goodwill. I forgive you, by the way God loves the ones most, who forgive.

I ask God to free you from prejudice, once you achieve that you will be the happiest man on this earth and I want you to be happy. It is contagious

Mike Ghouse
www.WorldMuslimCongress.com

It does get trying. There are a lot of books that are offensive to Jews and Christians, some of them downright obscene, yet they are on the shelves. That does not seem to be the case with Jones' historical reconstruction whose publisher would have been Random House, one of the most reputable.

If the manuscript had no merit, it is doubtful it would have been accepted there, but that isn't the point. If we are to start a censorship project based on who would be offended by which text, which paintings, etc., then it needs to be all inclusive. Either all publishers, galleries, museums, etc., vet their artists' works through "representatives" of different communities, or, as a nation, we refuse to give into the hysteria, threats, and violence of reactionaries.

Mike Ghouse-

Two words for you: Forced Repatriation

Its quietly being done in many western countries.

American born Muslims may stay or leave with their families.

If Muslims are seeking asylum: let them relocate to Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, or Qatar. They are better suited living in an oil rich Shariah friendly Muslim country instead of "westernized" Europe and America.

Once there- they can self-censor and be censored until no one can do a thing.

Extremism and ignorance is the common enemy of mankind. Not the religion, any religion for that matter.

The Extremists wearing religious labels have nothing else to do than frightening the people to falsely feel safe that they have enough people on their side. It is time for the majority to speak up, An overwhelming majority (above 90%) of Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists and others are moderate folks who believe in living their lives and letting other live theirs. The “moderate majority” is getting tired of the extremists and will speak up and pacify the extremists not to fear and have hopes, a tough job to do.

If Pew or some one else conducts a survey, framing the questions to determine one’s moderation, you will find out that we are a nation of moderate people, don’t gloat on it yet to find wrong with others, that will be the result even in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Russia, Ireland or any where you go.

We have to figure out the best possible way to co-exist, annihilation of others has never worked nor will it ever work.

Mike Ghouse
www.Foundationforpluralism.com

The publisher pulled the book; it wasn't censorship.

A biography of Tom Cruise was pulled this year. There are various reasons why books are pulled.

Primarily, the publishers look at their bottom line and see whether publishing the book is a great liability than brings in profits!

The topic is about the censorship of the book, if we can stick with the topic, we can go somewhere.

How we can we deal with ignorance? The fanatics among Christians match the fanatics among Muslims and Jews. Fortunately they are just a few. Each one assumes that his belief is the standard to denigrate the other, as if they are in the business of denigration.

Neither Jews nor Muslims deny Jesus Christ, they have another point of view as the Christians do. God has not signed a deal behind others back to favor one over the other, that kind of God will cheat you too and that is no the quality of God.

No sir (as ma'ms are not fanatics) God is about love, justice and fairness. He loves all his creation whether you go through the teachings of Jesus, Mohammad, Moses, Krishna, Zarthustra, Bahaullah, Buddha, Mahavir, Nanak or any of the spiritual masters.

All paths will lead one to become a better being and no one will go to hell.

Mike Ghouse
www.WisdomofReligion.org

The one thing I can't understand is why Muslims can't just turn around and walk away from an issue they don't agree with. If you don't like the book don't read it. If you don't like the movie, don't watch it. If TV offends you, turn it off. What is the big issue here?

If everyone acted like the Islamic community, we would have WWIII on our hands and in the end no human would survive. Even if there were two survivors, at one point or another one of them would be insulted and kill the other one.

Muslims need to take themselves and their faith a little less seriously and let those who believe differently the freedom to express their opinion.

Once more the intolerance of Islam rears it ugly head. I condemn the publishers for giving in to the intellectual terrorism of the stone-age Islamists. I encourage the author to seek other publishers for her work. Islam has shown itself to be bigoted, intolerant and incapable of understanding or accepting the basics of democratic society (freedom of speech and freedom of religion being prime examples of concepts that appear incompatible with Islam).

Muhammad is a liar and a antichrist and that he did not have the Father because he denies the Son:

Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also (1 John 2:22-23).

Is there any one out there, any faith based community who can cast the first stone?

“Muslims can draw cartoons depicting Jewish people as baby eating cannibals” then he adds “all hell breaks loose”… It is bad to begin with, but to call it Muslims is worse – some do, who happened to be Muslims. All hell breaks loose if some one criticizes Holocaust, where is the freedom of speech? Whoever the anonymous is, he must consider going back to where his folks came from as he or she cannot stand criticism in our democracy.

Our Idolater makes the same mistake- call it Indian Muslim… how much violence has taken place with the paintings of Hussain and a guy from Baroda University…. is it all Hindus? Or just those creepy one, as there are Creepy Muslims and Creepy Christians and Jews.

The Sandals company made Hindu Icons had to apologize…. They were all the right things, but we need to look the ugliness in our own pants before we point to others.

But not a word about 9/11 victims – our Idolaters seems to be literate enough to post here but does not know how to Google… thousands of condemnations have gone, yet he makes the statement. Ignorance may be?

Is there any one out there, any faith based community who can cast the first stone?

LoVERS, inheritors & Defenders of Holy Cosmic Space-Ship Earth(s), not Quran(s), Gita(s)..

Hello Ms. A.Q. NO-M A N-i, et al:

Today is, U.niversal Y.ear C.irca[UYC-BMA]:3.98-Billion/08.13.08-Millenium/15:15-Atomic!

VOTE: Remove a Religious Organization [islamic], that's illegally embedded in a "SECULAR-United-Nations" , during the Transitional regime hanges of the early 1960's, aka the Infiltartion, via 'AL TAQiYAH" the un-Secular "ORGANiZATiON of iSLAmiC STATES"!

Note: ANY U.N. "NGO" or "BODY" or "ASSEMBLY" shall always remain SECULAR! not Jealous RELiGiON(s) in such an establishment!

Hint: same as Seperationg Churchs / Mosques / Synogogues / Temples etc.. according the the resemblance of the Miraculous U.S. CONSTiTUTION!

ELSE: The U.N. will never serve it's ultimate Purpose, for EARTH, nor other Planets!

WHEREFORE: Abolishg All, Openly Religious "NGO"'s etc.. within the total confines of the , almost blesseth, U.N. [innate System] Charter's etc..!
---

What Great Slip Of Genuine Prophecy!

Yes! History is Every Body's Biz, and the awareness of O.U.R., Hol{i}-No-Men's, Cosmic JURY!

3-Three things:

1)
ABAMA Loves to Eat Dog Meat! Or Used to Eat Dogs, while Young. Guess 'HAZEER' (HAM, pig) is Cleaner (HALLALEL/KOSHER) . iNteresting Slip. So Please see NEWSWEEK article on Obama Mom/Dad article mentioning this fact.

2)
On; Judeo-iSLAMiC ZiONiSM, aka 'AL TAQiYA' (not Judeo-Ju conquests, not Judeo-Chhrists, nor Judeo-Hindu, not Judeo-Buddhist.a's... Conspiracy propaganda to 'Dominate/Control, under "Their-man-made-god" instead of "O.U.R. innate-G-D" religio pretexs's); According To a recent article on

Organization On iSlamic Confrence [OiC] that;
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/03/27/news/UN-GEN-UN-Rights-Council.php

[Excerpt], "The top U.N. rights body on Thursday passed a resolution proposed by Islamic countries saying it is deeply concerned about the defamation of religions and urging governments to prohibit it.

The European Union said the text was one-sided because it primarily focused on Islam.

The U.N. Human Rights Council, which is dominated by Arab and other Muslim countries, adopted the resolution on a 21-10 vote over the opposition of Europe and Canada.

EU countries, including France, Germany and Britain, voted against. Previously EU diplomats had said they wanted to stop the growing worldwide trend of using religious anti-defamation laws to limit free speech.

The document, which was put forward by the Organization of the Islamic Conference, "expresses deep concern at attempts to identify Islam with terrorism, violence and human rights violations...."

So Using the "N" word in America, is like saying, ABROAD, that any speaking-out 'TRUTH' (opposite of MYTH(like Qurans, Tenachs, Bibles, Gitas, Kangyurs, Tripitakas.. Myth , man made, not innate, god System) about MU-HAM-MAD's.

Note: Religionist's meddle in Politics (SECULAR etc..) and read & see 'Political-Cartooons' that mock or poke-[Clean]-Fun at the Person {Living or Dead]. Yet When the Secular, et al, Draw-Up a 'Religional Cartoon' that mocks or depicts some 'MESSAGE' of a living or dead Islamic, for example, AND

that Now it , according to the Above [illegal] U.N. RESOLUTiON's result via the SATANiC & Jealous DEViLish instigation(s) of the OiC et a; makes it a HATE CriME!??????????????????

Wow! Amazing (no Grace!)

3)
Note: When Anyone on this Holy Cosmic, Nebual-Built, Miraculous, S.pace S.hip EARTH, of Many aka S.S. GAiA, S.S. GEOiD, S.S. TELLUSng something.. mentions the Word 'iNTER-FAiTH", or 'iNTERFACE w/YOUTH" [similarly] that tha is an 'Afront' To Us JOKTAN-ian Eberu RACE in sewwet Sweet U.S. of A, & the WORLD!

Please Note Si{star], That under The RELiGiON of Everything, before SCiENCE of Everything Faith [Holy Cosmic Feelers Faith or 'Ho-Co-Fe-Fa' System; a Belief , like a Religion, but based on REALiTY/TRUTH (opposite of dellusional/MYTH)] That,

"i" et al, are aka "ECLAT{i}ON(s)" aka ECLAT{ARiAN}'s, aka APOPCALYPTARiAN(s), but everywhere know as HUE{MATE}-Kinds, not like YE HUMAN-unkinds, "O.U.R." [O.ne U.niversal R.eligion] B.ook O.f T.ransfinity [B.O.T.], aka "O.U.R.-B.O.T." have a Goal: Goal is

VOTE: ABOLiSH 'ALL, EVERY & ANY "THEOCRACY & MONORACHY" on this 'Blesseth' Planet, of Many!

[never via Sin/Curseth ABRAHAMiC & VEDiC Pre-Apocalyptic as if Birth is some un-kind've SiN/Curseth/Racist Story's, whom All compete for a Name for their- god, {Not "i"} iNSTEAD of G-D. [O.U.R.] LiFE-in-PHOTON appearance again]

Note: We APOCALYPTARiAN-JOKTAN-NATiONAL(s) {each HUE{MATE} is an Auto-Matic Citizen/Denizen of Hol{i} blesseth {Miraculous} TELLUSng something}.

---

HALLALUYA!

‘The RELiGiON Of Everything, before the SCiENCE Of Everything is upon Us-ALL!

MODERN-MORALiTY is Superior to ANT BiBLiCAL-MORALITY, if Any, Anymore!

Praise the NOT-JEALOUS & Thus FEARLESS 'HOL{i}NO-MEN!

Goodbye ALL, EVERY & ANY; "PRE-APOCALYPTiC" thinking folk!

Goodriddance TENACH(s)! (Judeo MOZEUS),
Goodbye BiBles(Judeo-JEZEUS),
Goodbye QURAN(s) (Jude-Muhhamada-Zeus),
Goodbye GiTA(s) (Judeo-VyasaZEUS),
Goodbye (Judeo-GAUTAMA-ZEUS!)
Goodbye (ALL/EVERY & ANY, Pre-Abrahamic & Pre-Vedic Pagans/Idolatrs Worshipers et Al!
goodbye Witches, Wicaans, Shamans, Voodooists et al!

Good Riddence! INSTEAD,

HELLO “APOCALYPT{ARiAN}iTY!” ‘ A-“Holy Cosmic-Feeler’s-Faith” [Ho-Co-Fe-Fa] , a ELCLAT{i}ON Belief, like a Religion, yet Better based on ‘TRANS{FiNiTY}’ [Reality Moving Eternally/immortally]… NEW STORY/Song Thank G-D, Every day, until Genuine ‘END OF TiME {via TEMP.erature, not clock nor space ‘time‘ thinking} in About 2.5-3.5 Billion Years From.

Goodbye MECCA!
Goodbye JERUSALEM!
Goodriddence TiBET!
GoodRiddence NEPAL,
Goodbye ARMiSTAR!
Goodbye VATiCAN!
Goodbye CANTERBURRY! Goodbye E.Orthodox's, HELLENiC's, Pagans, et al!

Welcome on-boared to the "HOly COsmic FEeler's FAith" Holy Cosmic Nebula-Built Space-Ship {Planet of man} awareness Religion!

VOTE: For; "SiNGULARiTY" , never for PLURALiTY, Of All Pre-Apocalyptic Religions Systems, on Space-Ship Earth(s), whom selfishly are Hassling, right now, and competing for a Name for "Their-god", iNSTEAD oF [O.U.R.] innate G-D now known by 1,000 names, no more 999.. Please do not imagine it means inversed to "666". That's Pre-Apocalyptic Thinking. aka Wrong-Thinking, and Simialr imagined/illusioned/delussioned!

THEREFORE: Vote for the "Religion of Everything, before The Science Of Everything!" Today, not Tomorrow!

BECOME an 'APOCALYPTARiAN-NATiONAL, not a Pre-Apocalyptarian National!

HALLALUYA! Praise the 'HOL{i}-NO-MEN!'

--- From:

The JOKTAN-EBERU-RACE of AMERiCA 2013+!

Amazing, muslims can draw cartoons depicting Jewish people as baby eating cannibals, make up historical lies about Christianity and the horrible Crusades ( which were a DEFENSIVE move)but all hell breaks loose if a western writer wants to write a story involving mohammed. Dear islam, mohammed is not OUR prophet or anything else, he is not holy to us. You should learn to deal with FREEDOM OF SPEECH if you move to western nations, and if you can't, go back to the oppressive lands you love so much and leave the kuffars alone. The end.

It is very shameful that an Indian Muslim (from Hyderabad, AP) wrote to ban the book. Another case of Indian Muslims no different from other Muslims. Very radicalized. Mahatma made a big blunder by not driving them out during partition.

I wonder why Muslims are always complaining of Muslims' plight all over the world, but they are very quiet about plight of the vicitms of "messengers of Allah" who massacre civilians all over the world every day?

Crying about Muslims in Iraq, Afghan, Palestine (where btw Muslims kill Muslims every day), but not a word on victims of 9/11, Russia school children massacre, UK, Spain, Mumbai train massacres, genocide and ethnic cleansing of Hindus and others in Kashmir, Indonesia, Thailand, Phillipines...?

Again, not PUBLISHING a book is NOT CENSORSHIP.
Or, if t is, it is censorship from the publishers- a right they reserve for all their publications.
There ARE other publishers out there.

I have no idea why Ms. Nomani half-quotes Amanullah. Why the sarcastic parentheses? His views actually confirm your own.

Ms. Nomani writes-
"Amanullah said he sent his email about the book to encourage "transparency." To him, it's better not to "blindsided." "That way we are calm and rational about our response," he said. "If somebody is going to be playing in my sandbox I should know what they are doing there."

For the sake of fairness, I feel an actual quote from Shahed Amanullah merits mention-

"Ultimately, no one has the absolute right not to be offended, nor does anyone have the right to live without the uncomfortable opinions of others. This is true whether it concerns flag burning (which should harm nothing other than a piece of cloth) or non-Muslim views of the Prophet Muhammad (which should not have an impact on a Muslim's sincere belief). Religion and a universal sense of civility both dictate that emotions be kept in check to preserve social order. In such an environment, the freedom to speak openly - and all the benefits that come from it - can flourish."

We only have the word of the author that her book was headed for the best seller's list- and authors are notoriously biased when it comes to opinions about their own worth.
But let's imagine that it was headed there-
With all of this free publicity, can't the author find another publisher?

The Frst Amendment really doesn't give us the right to be published- that is a privilege conferred b to an author by a pusblishing house in hopes that the masses will agree with their assessment.
If it was good enough to be published by Random House- and already had the go-ahead, surely some other hosue will pick it up.

All I have to go by is this paragraph-

"the pain of consummation soon melted away. Muhammad was so gentle. I hardly felt the scorpion's sting. To be in his arms, skin to skin, was the bliss I had longed for all my life."

For my tastes, this seems like a bodice ripper.
Maybe Harlequin will pick it up.
It's too bad it's not being published- then it could be critiqued like any other work.

But for now, we only have the word of the author as to its' literary value.

In any case- surely the author will keep writing and we will be able to judge whether or not it really is as compelling as she says it is.

While it may be well-intentioned, the title is disigenuous and the article is mostly a lot of qualifications and handwaving.

Muslims are not alone in forcing this censorship. In this case a Lynn Stewart-type leftist academic enabled the process, set within the context of a politically correct publishing and media environment that bows to Islam.

The reality is that there is censorship, and the Muslims are pushing it.

Self-censorship? Only when it comes to serious discussion of how hateful, dogmatic, inhumane and immoral their immutable, sacred sources really are. They are untouchable, by threat of violence and agression, as this episode only confirms.

Mike,

*75% of Muslims in the world live in democracies*
Would you please to write those *Democratic Muslim Countries*

To me,correct word should be *Does muslim know what Democracy is*

*Religiously all women have their rights*
Yes, correct.Woman in islam has right to open her legs,nothing else.

History;

-Bloody Mary/Mary Tudor was Quenn of England in 1553 and Elizabeth I in 1558.
-Margot was the Queen of France in sixteen century(She is one who slept all men in the Palace)
-Catharine,Queen of Russia.German Girl who said *I begot three children and none of them from my husband*(oooovvvv).Pedro(King of Russia and her husband) you are the greatest.

SAUDI SHEIKH SAYS "Nothing Makes Satan Happier Than The BIKINI Olympics"

Muhammad Al-Munajid: "How come modern sports - especially women's sports - involve the exposure of private parts? It is well known that the Olympics - both in the past and the upcoming games... the world's worst display of women's clothing is the women's Olympics. No exposure of women's private parts on a global scale could make Satan happier than Olympic games that include women's sports."

Interviewer: "And in a scandalous manner..."

Muhammad Al-Munajid: "Yes. It is an enormous Satanic issue.

[...]

"One of these criminals compared a soccer team that made it to the top in Asia and traveled to Spain to the conquest of Andalusia! Allah be praised! The conquest of lands, the bringing of monotheism to these lands, where the name of Allah is uttered, where Islamic learning and scholars emerge, and where the banners of Islam are raised high - all these you compare to people chasing an inflated piece of leather?!

[...]

"Many people nowadays watch sports rather than participate in them."

Interviewer: "And this is a problem..."

Muhammad Al-Munajid: "If only they would run or move their bodies a little... All they do is sit and watch the sports channels. Some fathers come to me and ask if it is permitted to hook up just to the sports channels. It is for the kids, they say. There is pressure. Football leads to temptation. It is not an innocent sport. Take boxing, for example, or some types of so-called free[style] wrestling, which involve hitting the face, breaking bones, inflicting injuries and pain. They involve obvious bodily harm. The Prophet Muhammad said: If you beat someone, avoid the face. The Islamic jurisprudence authority banned boxing, because it involves beating in the face, which can lead to blindness, brain damage, broken bones, and even death. The beater is not held responsible, because they both consented to this, and the spectators are happy. When someone is beaten in the face and knocked down, they jump for joy.

[...]

"Wrestling involves the exposure of women's private parts. Even the promotion of the competitions is done by scantily clad women. This is done at the beginning of the match, in the middle, and at the end, or so I hear... the matches are promoted by half-naked women.

[...]

"The sport of yoga was originally a Hindu game used for divine worship. For them, practicing yoga is a means of divine worship. Whoever practices yoga today is emulating their form of worship.

[...]

"Beijing or not... I call it Bikini, anyway... because they are likely to display women in the worst possible way in these 'Bikini' Olympic games.

[...]

"What women wear in the Olympic games are among the worst clothes possible. The inventions of Satan, with regard to the exposure of the body in gymnastics, in swimming, in whatever, in tennis... Women have never gotten naked for sports like they do in the Olympics. It is aired to billions of people worldwide. The problem is not just with the spectators who are present. The whole thing is aired on TV..."

Interviewer: "And maybe the men's clothing is more modest than the women's..."

Muhammad Al-Munajid: "There's no 'maybe' about it. It is definite."

http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/1832.htm

In response to Georgiason,

As American Muslims, we don’t need an opinion from the Mufti of Al-Azhar; it is our life, our nation and our society. We have to co-exist and the responsibility is not be shouldered by any single group, we all have to own the responsibility and do our part without scoring on the other.

Rogue elements are always part of a society, however you chop it, religiously, ethnically, racially or other uniqueness. You find them in Muslims, and without a doubt, they are among Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists and every group. We need to find them and turn them over to the FBI as common criminals, whoever they might be.

Can we count the same number in other faiths? Robertson, Falwell, Hagee, Crendo and many more will terrorize other people and nations, if the laws of our land were to be loose. Heck they wanted to murder Chavez, bomb Mecca, cursed Arial Sharon, they are true brothers of Bin Laden. All of them have on thing in common; they are insecure and misrepresent their faith to their constituencies.

Muslims around the globe are going through a gradual reformation. I will focus on just American Muslims. There is a tremendous reform happening and in the last five years I have observed remarkable changes – you can compare it to the information technology that came in to being in the eighties and every day is a new day, so is with American Muslims. I am working on the paper and you should be able to see it.

Does Islam allow for the separation of church and state? – Absolutely. 75% of Muslims in the world live in democracies, the others would too if we American had not promoted regimes that are not democratic.

Does Islam allow for the full legal equality of women? – Take the blinders off and not read the media that focus on the negatives. Do we, even the most advanced society practice it? Three of the Islamic nations that make up 25% of Muslim population had women heads; we have accepted the possibilities some 40 years later than them. Religiously all women have their rights, but not in practice, it is a shame, Islam is no different than other faiths when it comes to dealing with women. Of course, it is highlighted more as it suits the agenda of the few who want to manufacture an enemy.

Does Islam allow for religious pluralism? - Same things goes; God in his book Qur’aan guarantees his grace to every one who is good to the fellow beings regardless of what one believes. In practice, you will find faith defenders guarantee heavens exclusively, as if they own it.

There is a revolutions going among Muslims to restore the faith as it was intended to, to be open and inclusive and pluralistic.

Mike Ghouse
www.WorldMuslimCongress.com
What is good for Muslims has got to be good for the world and vice versa to have sustainable peace and prosperity for one and all.

Fear of Muslim violence silences a free press and is claimed as a victory by Muslims. This is the new reality that Muslims want the West not to believe is the real Muslim world.

Sorry, but reality trumps the fantasy of peaceful Muslims who only want dialog.

And the reason Muslims who never read the book want it to be censored is that they KNOW what the book will reveal. They KNOW the roots of their religion. They KNOW the embarassing aspects of their prophet. They just want to kill anyone who points them out and at the same time claim to be nice civilized people. Actions speak louder than words and we have seen enough Muslim action to KNOW the truth. Muslims are not civilized. You only need to see an American raised Muslim decide to drive a car into a group of people and claim he did it for his faith to understand civilization is not part of this religion. When Muslims say "May Allah bless us all" they mean only all Muslims. Everyone else is just an infidel to be slaughtered at the slightest provocation. That is by definition uncivilized.

Of course, we have freedom of speech, but we also should be sensitive not to offend what is sacred or causes hurt. This is why Imus got into trouble for the "nappy headed..." comment and why caricatures showing negative depictions of Judaism are totatlly unacceptable in America.

It's all about sensitivity.

It is fiction but based upon figures that are adored and revered by the second largest religion in the world.

Plus, the age of Aisha at the time of marriage is a historical disagreement even among Muslims. Many American Muslim scholars state that she was not a child bride to begin with.

SEE: http://muslimmedianetwork.com/mmn/?p=173

The Real Islam- 101 (no fictional books needed)

Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, who also had embellishing/hallucinating/ plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" aka "pretty, wingie, talking, thingies" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

This agenda continues as shown by the assassination of Bhutto, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/ mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, and the Filipino “koranics”.

And who funds this muck and stench of terror? The warmongering, Islamic, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

Current crises:

The Sunni-Shiite blood feud and the warmongering, womanizing (11 wives), hallucinating founder.

Added reading material- Ayaan Hirsi Ali's autobiography, "Infidel".

An excerpt:

"The kind on thinking I saw in Saudi Arabia and among the Brotherhood of Kenya and Somalia, is incompatible with human rights and liberal values. It preserves the feudal mind-set based on tribal concepts of honor and shame. It rests on self-deception, hyprocricy, and double standards. It relies on the technologial advances of the West while pretending to ignore their origin in Western thinking. This mind-set makes the transition to modernity very painful for all who practice Islam".
p. 347, paperback

Ali Hemani,

No.You are wrong.
Freedom of Speech contains to insult so-called prophets.Besides,islam doesnt mandate to speak in the most pleasent way with all(believers/only true muslims and disbelievers/infidels/non-muslims)

Islam curses Trinity.5.73
Islam curses non-muslims.Cow chapter 2.161
Islam casts Fear/Terror into the hearts of non-muslims 8.12

Why is she going about groveling for approval? Why not just publish the book and get on with her next project?

Congratulations to the Husaini Youth!

An American Publisher has been successfully intimidated for the 1st time ever by a Muslim association's threats!

This only reinforces the West's view of Islam and why we need to elect a battle-hardened patriot who is not afraid to stand up to intimidation: John McCain.

Obama's procession of milquetoast pronouncements regarding Georgia only proves how cowardly he is & how unfit he is for the role of Commander-in-Chief.

He would fit in very nicely in the Do-Nothing E.U. Did he say an international peace-keeping force? What is this said force going to do? Watch Russia burn Georgia to the ground? Do you think they are going to actually DO anything against the Russians?

So to the HY I say, a sincere, heartfelt Thank You. If it wasn't for you, America might have actually elected a president of muslim patronage. (Whew, crisis averted.)

Let me begin with the point that Islam mandates in Holy Quran for every Muslim to speak in the most pleasant way with all (believers and disbelievers). It restrains you from slandering other people or from constructing fiction against real people.

We at Husaini Youth had invited Sherry Jones to understand this point in more detail. For those who wish to view the details pls find the link attached - http://www.husainiyouths.com/forum/topic/show?id=1979414%3ATopic%3A33048.

As for those who believe Islam is in concurance with Terrorism; its sad that you have succumb to the western media. Those who belame Palestine, Iraq, lebnon for terrorism should look at the fact that who got them to that point.

If Rambo defends himself against American harrasment. He is a HERO and if a Iraqi kills an american soldier coz' the american soldier is raping his mother; he is a terrorist. If a palestinain defends his house from being buldozed he is a terrorist. After a childs family has been slaughtered in front of his eyes - what do you expect this child to grow into? CEO of Microsoft? or President of America?

After enough evidences that 911 was an inside job and enough evidences of of Lies about Iraqi WMD's and the planned exercise of UK 7/7, it surprises me to see that the western citizens refuse to accept the truth.

Presuming that due terrorism of some radical goups of muslim there must have be 20,000 deaths (number being far to extrapolated), it is no match to 1 million lives in Iraq. It is no match to the 85% occupation of Palestine.

In religiously backward WESTERN countries it does not surprise me to see Books like "Last Temptations of Jesus", "Bible with Gospel of Nicodemus" - where Jesus is refered to as an illegitimate child of Mary, makes it to the market, under the pretext of freedom of speech.

Freedom of Speech was long dead during the Roman inquisition when people were massacred for following their beliefs, Freedom of speech was long dead when under the pretext of halocaust Jews started occupying Palestine, Freedom of speech was long dead when investigations on 911 were hampered. Freedom of speech was long dead when Iraq was invaded and after the lies being proven the western civilisation still refuses to believe in it. Freedom was long dead when after one million deaths and bringing iraq to rumbles the american solidiers continue to remain on iraqi soil. Stop waving the flag of "Freedom of Speech" - there is no freedom of speech. If there is then lets investigate halocaust, Lets ask Isarel to leave the illegally occupied land, lets ask America to go back to its soil. If you cant say this then Freedom of speech is dead.

Freedom of speech is not insulting Prophets and God.

All non-Muslims can counter this coercion from Muslims and the the lack of courage and principles by helping Ms. Jones to self-publish and be able to sell her book by the billions in English, Arabic, Chinese, Urdu, Russian and in all other languages.

She should make the book available for a very cheap price, $ 5. It should also be published on-line.

Muhammad was murderer, a child molester, a bandit, and a slave owner who kept slave girls for his pleasure.

The world ought to know so that the scourge of Islam can be wiped out from the face of this earth and educating young Muslims is the surest way to remove all vestiges of Islam.

It’s good that there has been no monolithic Muslim reaction to this book, and that some Muslims are defending its publication. It’s the type of reaction that we Americans need to see more of before we can be comfortable with a large Muslim community residing in America. But there are no clear winners and losers so far. Let there be no doubt about it: the ultimate outcome of this debate within the Muslim community will determine whether or not Islam is compatible with modern, liberal democracy. There is no middle ground, no compromise on whether books like this—or, for that matter, scholarly critiques of Muhammad and Islam—have a right to be published. There is abundant evidence that most Muslims still just do not get it. They just do not understand that whether or not they are offended is irrelevant.

There is also the problem that many Muslims still believe that they have a right to turn to terrorism, violence, and intimidation to deal with acts deemed to insult Islam and its founders. It will not matter if 90 percent of Muslims living in the U.S. support freedom of expression, if the other 10 percent-—or even one percent—-are extremists. That would leave hundreds if not thousands of Muslims as potential terrorists and murderers.

The missing element in the reaction to this book is the absence of comments by the leading, authoritative voices of Islam, in America and in the Muslim world. What do the leading American imans and ulema have to say? What message is being delivered in Friday sermons? Silence is not enough. The words of a handful of student commentators, op-ed writers, and random, individual Muslims is not enough. Here is a golden opportunity for leading American Muslim religious authorities to show their commitment to basic American values. Let us hear the word go forth from those Friday sermons that books like this have every right to be published. Let us hear the mosques of America ring with an unconditional reaffirmation of freedom of expression.

Even more reassuring, let us hear it from the leading scholars at Al Azhar University and the Grand Muftis of all Islamic countries.

Here is a chance, at last, for American Muslims to answer the five questions I have been posting in On Faith and elsewhere for years, which no Muslim has ever dared to answer. Pay particular attention to question No. 5, which, again, I have been posing for years.

What would the most authoritative voices of Islam say in answer to the five questions posed below. That is, don't give me your personal viewpoint. I want you to tell us what the most authoritative voices of orthodox Islam would say.

Here are the questions:
1.Does Islam allow for the separation of church and state?
2.Does Islam allow for the full legal equality of women?
3.Does Islam allow for religious pluralism? For example, if a Muslim male married a Christian female, would the husband and wife be able to say to their children, “We will attend the mosque on Friday and the church on Sunday and consider ourselves a bi-religious family. When each of you is 18 years old, you will be free to choose. You can continue our bilateral approach; or, you can choose one religion over the other; or, you can choose another religion altogether.”
4.What does Islam say (according to the above authoritative voices) should be the fate of heretics? For example, if a member of the Egyptian soccer team got up tomorrow morning and announced he was converting from Islam to Christianity and changing his name from Mohammad Ali to Cassius Clay, what do the authoritative voices of Islam say should be his fate?
5.Does Islam allow for the publication of a scholarly book alleging that Muhammad was a fraud?

(Alternatively, instead of imagining these questions posed to the authoritative voices of Islam, imagine the question is, “What would Islamic textbooks used in the teaching of Muslim students in America say in answer to the following questions?”)

The answers to these questions will reveal whether there is some debate among Muslims over the future of their religion. Or whether even orthodox Islam can be accommodated to a Western liberal, pluralistic society.

only the guilty have something to hide.
The Prophets actions make Muslims very guilty indeed...

"For his part, the Husaini Youth member, Hemani, said in an interview that he had joined the group to "serve the purpose of my life, by gaining closeness to Allah," saddened by the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, coupled with the situation of Palestinians in Israel. In a decision that Muslims around the globe can use as a guidepost for public debate, he said he had only one choice when it came to welcoming Jones because Allah "says one who rushes towards good deeds is the one I hold close in my view." "

Dumb and dumber. I think I've never seen an Islamic place in peace. There is always shooting and bloodshed among themselves. Suicide bombing everywhere like crazed maniacs.

"For his part, the Husaini Youth member, Hemani, said in an interview that he had joined the group to "serve the purpose of my life, by gaining closeness to Allah," saddened by the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, coupled with the situation of Palestinians in Israel. In a decision that Muslims around the globe can use as a guidepost for public debate, he said he had only one choice when it came to welcoming Jones because Allah "says one who rushes towards good deeds is the one I hold close in my view." "

Dumb and umber. I think I've never seen an Islamic place in peace. There is always shooting and bloodshed among themselves. Suicide bombing everywhere like crazed maniacs.

The word that should give everyone pause is "self-censoring" because what that means is that it's not the laws of this country — i.e., freedom of speech and press — that matters at all here, but only what the Muslim with the biggest veiled threat says another Muslim (or non-Muslim) may do.

This wasn't a triumph of a debate of any kind. This was an act of intimidation in which a group went out to stop the publication of a book — an act of free speech in a supposedly free country — and they succeeded because there is a palpable threat of violence, repeated constantly — in fact more than 11,500 times since 9/11 — by intolerant Muslims who are determined to be the only mediators of the behavior and beliefs of everyone else.

Anyone who sees this as any kind of "good thing" in any respect whatsoever either isn't reading or isn't thinking.

It is despicable even to see this kind of whitewash printed in the Post, though given the source it isn't surprising.

The extremists dig in their heels only because, we the self proclaimed "civil" socieites do not give them options; to listen, to acknowledge and offer alternatives.

The loss is lesser in this option than pushing some one to the corner.

Every new idea consumes a lot of investment to carry it forward, the publishers and the writers ought to consider that. Apply the proven marketing ideas in handling release of such a book. Again, if some gross corrections are made with their involvment and endorsement - you can count on that book being the best seller.

We believe in democracy, we might as well practice it by thinking solutions in terms of choices.

Mike Ghouse

Ron said:
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If you were just sorta reading along in a hurry, it was easy to conflate the publisher's expressed fear of a terrorist attack and that brief mention of an action plan against the novel and convince yourself some sort of threat was actually expressed. But when you look at the actual online complaint, a much different story emerges; that "seven-point strategy" turns out to be little more than organizing a blast email campaign, getting an advance copy of the novel to pick out the offensive bits, prepping fact sheets about the Prophet's wives, keeping an eye out for any media coverage of the book so they can complain about that, too, and telling people how terrible it is "this book has been written with some exotic scenes in it." (He means "erotic," by the way.)
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Asra Nomani wrote again on this issue. But she didn't clear this up. Why?

Nomani said;
{For his part, the Husaini Youth member, Hemani, said in an interview that he had joined the group to "serve the purpose of my life, by gaining closeness to Allah," saddened by the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, coupled with the situation of Palestinians in Israel.}

These are the main grievances that al AlQaeda et al are alleging to wage the Jihad or Holy War against the world in general and the West in particular. We have AlQaeda, Hamas, Hizballah, al Jihad and now the Husaini Youth. These latter one are in our midst and are openly working to erode our freedoms starting with the freedom of speech.Only Allah knows what will they work for next.

Taboos have to be dealt with smartly; even though the words F**k and S**t are in our parlancem, we ding it when some one says on the TV or Radio. It is a taboo for a man or a woman in the office or in a family room to walk naked. You cannot have a playboy in your closet, look what happened to the politicians who had.

What is the need to bring the bedroom activity into the book? The gain from this book is none, where are the goodwill lost is much. No Christian, Jewish or Hindu family would allow their spiritual leaders name be tarnished, at least they would not allow it in their homes, why pick on Muslims?

Asra Nomani jolts a few, cause the majority of Muslims to think and certainly agitate the extremists. I do know one thing though; the masters know how to play the game, they know how the extremists react and tease them to play; and the extremists simply fall prey for it without realizing that they were had.

The Dutch cartoon Masters tested the mettle of the extremists, and succeeded in getting them to do the intended thing, so they can move their next pawn; that Muslims are extremists. They have several moves planned, as long as the dumb extremists play the game, the Masters will give them the exercise.

Both are wrong, however the onus is on the Muslims, as the Prophet asks them to walk the middle path and not extreme. If one were to do his Jihad, an inner struggle and the strength to remain peaceful despite the temptations to be angry, to retaliate (turn the other cheek), hate, malice, revenge and other vices. Alas those dumb extremists listen to their own Prophet and play the other game; to be the peace makers.

Islam flourished and contributed towards the civilization when its followers listened to Qur'aan and explored and mined every knowledge field for the benefit of mankind.

Asra Nomani writes about a bold new territory being explored by Sherry Jones. “The personal life of Aisha, a prominent Muslim Scholar and the wife of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).”

I urge Muslims to gear themselves to think and not react. If you cannot listen to the prophet, then don’t read the book. The more you re-act, the more books will be written, the more non-chalant you get, the incentive to write them dims. The Majority of Muslims always choose the right path and they need to speak when the few extremists roar.

Mike Ghouse
www.MikeGhouse.net

Thank you for this post Ms. Nomani. Better said than the alarmist, relexively anti-Islamic Wall Street Journal and WND where I first read about this issue.

I'm surprised at the welcoming stance the HY member took towards Sherry Jones, its welcoming to see that some people learn from their mistakes.