Rational atheist???
What the heck is THAT?
Theres nothing rational about atheism.
Accepting the idea that all the complicated thinks we see and are, just came about by dumb chance and happenstance.
And to deny the complexity of the universe as just "seeming to be complex" such as Ricky Dawkins suggested,is rational???

RATIONAL ATHEISM?????????????!!!!!!

LOL.. Thats the best one ive heard in a while...:)

"...voters who see faith and race in immutable terms..."

Can we just say that old, racist, bigoted Americans don't like him? Why do we have to pussyfoot around what everybody knows? There is a sharp attitudinal divide between those who take racial equality for granted and those that don't, and an equally sharp divide between those who regard lip service to the same belief structure as themselves to be a requirement for the presidency, and those who don't. Both of the groups identified in your quote are, individually and collectively, a moral blight on America, and pandering to them as you've just done only encourages their ongoing refusal to enter the 21st century.

This whole concept of religions and Gods reminds me of the famous article, "Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus":

"Not believe in Santa Claus! You might as well not believe in fairies!"

"The most real things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see. Did you ever see fairies dancing on the lawn? Of course not, but that's no proof that they are not there."

We tell stories like this to children, and expect that one day they will grow up to realize that these fairy tales are just that - fairy tales. Perhaps one day the children of the religious will grow up too?

GWB showed us that religion is suspect. How can you get all worked up over a stem cell in a petri dish than cream your pants for war and torture. I dont' know how many times I've heard this conversation from prolifers. Save the stem cells......(time elapse).....Nuke the middle east. Going from hysterical about stem cells to advocating genocide, causes most of us to be suspect about the sincerity of the prolife movement.

If one reads all the comments, one is left with no illusions as to which of the two groups, believers and non-believers, is the more sane. A good portion of the believers seemingly have access to the internet in their institutions.

What faith compels you to shill for the abortionist party ?

If one reads the Book of Genesis one will find references to the Gods, though most of the polytheistic references were edited out. So, is it God or Gods? We don't know, and those who claim to know the most invariably know the least.
A little study also shows some interesting similarities between the Hebrew writings and Mesopotamian beliefs circa 5000 years ago. This is simple enough to explain, as the Hebrews were slaves in Mesopotamia at the time.
Since nearly all Americans use the King James version of the Bible, I wonder how many of them know just how many translators King James went through before he found one who wrote what he wanted his Bible to say? Quite a few, people, quite a few.
The Bible has been edited and translated so many times we really have no idea how accurate it is, especially the New Testament, and the idea that so many espouse it as the literal word of God both amuses and depresses me.
I wonder how many "Christians" have ever read any of the Roman records of Jesus' time? You might be surprised.
The Bible does not hold the answer to every one of life's mysteries, nor is it the key to knowledge of God. It can be a useful tool in life's journey, but to close one's mind is to deny God, the ultimate sin.

Religion isn't in our genes, it's a post-partum infection presented to the growing child before it has a chance to think for itself.

Our primitive ancestors believed in all manner of nonsense even the most fervent of christians, muslims, and jews would find utterly ridiculous today ... yet they seem just as willing to believe the nonsense they are fed in their youth.

That's basically the pathology of religion. Primitive ancestors too ignorant to know better, a pre-existing tendency to feed to our children what we were fed, an ongoing self-replicating parastic infection from which we just can't seem to free ourselves.

Why are so many Italians Catholic? Why are so many Saudis Muslim, Israelis Jews, people from Minnesota protestant? Why are so many people in San Francisco liberal and those from Selma conservative?

Is there anything inherently right about what these people believe, what these children were fed, or is it just that all the people around them were fed the same thing?

People are sheep.

"it’s in our genes"

MORONIC.

TOMMY BIRCHFIELD said:
time is short and we are all running out of time!

He's totally right, unlike all the other apocalyptic cults of the last few thousand years. The Mayans, Native Americans, generations of Christians through the years, "any day now, the world could end! Repent/Convert/Sacrifice!"

But Tommy, he's right. It's easy to blame Republicans for everything, when Democrats have shown how they are not an equally corrupt, and frequently spineless party.

Why not have a Pagan president? I haven't read most of the 125 responses below, but I doubt that has been asked yet. Why not a polytheistic president?

Take the Oath of Office on a book of shadows; Call the House, Senate and the Four Directions to order; Solstii, Equinoxes for Federal holidays, with flexible time off for Full Moons (of course).

TOMMY BIRCHFIELD said:
time is short and we are all running out of time!

He's totally right, unlike all the other apocalyptic cults of the last few thousand years. The Mayans, Native Americans, generations of Christians through the years, "any day now, the world could end! Repent/Convert/Sacrifice!"

But Tommy, he's right. It's easy to blame Republicans for everything, when Democrats have shown how they are not an equally corrupt, and frequently spineless party.

Why not have a Pagan president? I haven't read most of the 125 responses below, but I doubt that has been asked yet. Why not a polytheistic president?

Take the Oath of Office on a book of shadows; Call the House, Senate and the Four Directions to order; Solstii, Equinoxes for Federal holidays, with flexible time off for Full Moons (of course).

Religion does not seem to mean a very moral person, judging by what we have in this administration, this past 7 years. It would be great to have an honest, decent man with integrity become president, with or without religion!

Michael Bloomberg is a mensch.

I wonder if Obama can find a way to entice him into the Vice-Presidency?

What a team they'd make!

"The world is hanging by a thread, and those still sitting on the fence better hurry the hell up, or they are about to be left behind for "ALL ENTERNITY" the athiest, and others who don't take that leap of faith are the one's who won't ever get the chance to do so again!

Yes there are many reglions just as there are many colors and many races but their is only one true god, "THE LIVING GOD" of Israel, and the United States, since Israel has rejected Jesus as the Christ/Living God, Israel has God's promise if they turn to him he'll save them, but the TRUE LIVING GOD says, "NO man cometh before the father but by me.

....."That man who says this is Jesus Christ."

So you better hurry and you better do it now, take that leap of faith, because the world is hanging by a thread and the republicans have just added extra weight to that thread, and now my friends it is getting ready to break!

When it does all bets are off and then all hell willl break lose, and death and destruction will follow!

In conclusion hate to be the bearer of bad news folks, just being truthful, and just reminding you that time is short and we are all running out of time!

It was after Russert's death, that day when you, on Chris Matthews show proclaimed American politics to be largely an Irish Catholic affair, and said it with a straight face that i knew you for what you are Mr. Feinmann... a Zionist shill, and a shameless liar... You are decidedly NOT a credible journalist, that simple statement showed that... what a fraud you are sir.

I'll vote for an atheist any day. Fineman is so lame.

I'll vote for an atheist any day.

Mr Jenkins,
It is quite a leap of mental gymnastics to recommend that Hitler's "Final Solution" against the very people that introduced the world to the Monotheistic God was inspired by this same God.
Not that a "final solution" is not still being pursued by people filled with a seething rage for the jews to this day.
The key to his true motivations lies in his term "final solution".
A cursory examination of exactly what "problem" Hitler was seeking a "final solution" for in his quest for a "superman" would have prevented you from making such a leap.
As well as revealing to you that he was much more inspired by Nietzsche than anyone else.

How sad! When it comes to politics, we used to be a people of intelligence rather than of fairy tale faiths! Of course back then people understood the need for separation of church and state.

Politics is about dealing with reality, while religion is about dealing with fantasy. This is why the two should have nothing to do with each other. When they do, it always ends up with a lunatic like Bush who murders, kidnaps, and tortures, all the while claiming GOD told him to do so, therefore it is supposed to be OK!

We need men/women of moral principles and capable of logical thinking, not those living in their own world of fantasy faiths, like the Evangelical Christians that currently endorse the LIES, WARMONGERING, and other evil deeds of men like G.W.BUSH!

Like Bush, Hitler also claimed GOD appointed him.

"His father who had been a Muslim and had a Muslim funeral spent time with him in Indonesia. "

Funerals are for the living. Obama's father was an atheist, and one who didn't 'spend much time' with the young Obama.

I'm a Pagan. Still doesn't mean I'm not likely to have a Catholic funeral, with no mention of my actual beliefs or spirituality, if I don't outlive my mother.

Kind of a loaded issue, there, but...

Probably they'll get hold of my corpse, shoot it full of plastic and preservatives, and finally bury the straight Catholic lawyer that never was.

I'm even somewhat inclined to let them, even if it means having my actual life erased and overwritten. My Pagan friends and loves and partner aren't scared in that way, and I can't really unscare my mother while the Church insists on re-scaring her.

Funerals are for the living, after all.

Doesn't make me Catholic.

Nor does Obama's father's funeral mean he was either a Muslim in life or even much of an influence on the Senator.

The concept behind Mr. Fineman's quote is what makes America great.. How wonderful to live in a country where people of different faiths can respect and support each other. As an evangelical Christian who support Obama, I am tired of people using faith as a wedge.

Harold Fineman is stating a profound story of faith and debate in our country right now. We all are as diverse as a snow flake or drops of rain on the flowers of thoughts. If we as Americans were all Friends Quakers, quiet in prayer and understanding war is not the answer to any small or terrible problem. I personally prefer men and women who listen to their hearts and not just tell all americans God spoke to me. If god spoke to me I would just listen and find peace and enjoy and work for peace and be happy and naturally enjoy every moment life offers me. I certainly would not destroy beautiful nations and peoples not unlike myself with families and friends, I like the america that is emerging I am feeling I am more proud about a new day emerging out of the darkness and into the lightness. A birth to behold love for life. All people deserve to feel safe in their homes on their streets not just here in The United States of America. God loves his creation not Just americans, and not just Isreal but Iraqi people, Russian people. Who honestly needs an enemy , not me, noway.

Dr.No:

There are no gods, no fairies, no sprites, no angels, no devils, no heaven, no hell, no Humpty Dumpty, no Tinkerbell, no Tooth Fairy, no Santa Claus, no Easter Bunny, no Mickey Mouse, no Never-never-Land,no Mother Goose, no Jolly Green Giant, no Superman, no Batman, no Robin, no Spiderman, no Captain Marvel, no Apollo, no Aphrodite, no Zeus.

What there is, is our imaginations, which produce all these characters and more. Its what we do as a species. We make things up for our own amusement, and also as explanations for things we don't understand.

Outside of the imagination, no supernatural world exists.

Attesting that you "know" someone "is a christian" is akin to attesting that you know someone has never cheated on their spouse.
Your are working with the exact same degree of certainty.
That the Mayor of New York would publically,with all the subtlety of P.T. Barnum promote Obama's personal spirituality really tells me much more about the mayor's core beliefs than it does Obama's.
Which is much more than I care to know.

Someone once said that [in America] "everything is politics".

Which is patently true when it comes to our political process.

We do have freedom of debate in this country--thanks in large part to the genius of our Founding Fathers in separating politics and religion. The religious diversity we enjoy is due to the secular ideas of the Enlightenment, not to any decision made by the holy rollers. Those secular ideas, enshrined in the Constitution, explain why a Jewish mayor from New York can make news by vouching for the Christian faith of a candidate whose long-dead father was a Muslim. It has nothing top do with the religions themselves. If the leaders of any one of those religions had the ability to do so, they would have long ago have eliminated the freedom of all the others.

In his book, did Mr. Fineman address the fact that Christianity for only about one-tenth of its existence has been compatible with democracy and human rights? For the other 90 percent, Christians supported the divine right of kings and the suppression of basic civil liberties. Is the way still open for backsliding?

How sad that Barack Obama, instead of celebrating the secular principles that made this country great, has joined John McCain in sucking up to the agents of intolerance.

Harold,

Some "counter thumping".

1. Abraham founder/father of three major religions was either the embellishment of the lives of three different men or a mythical character as was Moses, the "Tablet-Man" who talked to burning bushes and made much magic in Egypt.

Many of the 1.5 million Conservative Jews and many of their rabbis have relegated Abraham to the myth pile along with most if not all the OT.

simpletoremember.com/vitals/ConservativeTorah.htm
2. Jesus was an illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter/simple preacher man who suffered from hallucinations and who has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a mamzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). Analyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists) via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics. earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

For added "pizzazz", Catholic/Christian theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

3. Luther, Calvin, Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley et al, founders of Christian-based religions, also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

Jews seek signs, here are five for them to ponder.

Yet the Lord hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.

And Samuel answered Saul, and said, I am the seer: go up before me unto the high place; for ye shall eat with me to day, and to morrow I will let thee go, and will tell thee all that is in thine heart.

“And Samuel answered Saul, and said, I am the seer”

And Moses said unto them, Stand still, and I will hear what the Lord will command concerning you.”

“I will hear what the Lord will command”

SIGN 1
A three-foot-tall tablet with 87 lines of Hebrew that scholars believe dates from the decades just before the birth of Jesus is causing a quiet stir in biblical and archaeological circles, especially because it may speak of a messiah who will rise from the dead after three days.

“especially because it may speak of a messiah who will rise from the dead after three days.”

Paul wrote:
Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

“that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”

And of Benjamin he said, The beloved of the Lord shall dwell in safety by him; and the Lord shall cover him all the day long, and he shall dwell between his shoulders.

“The beloved of the Lord shall dwell in safety by him”
“the Lord shall cover him all the day long”
“he shall dwell between his shoulders”

Therefore they inquired of the Lord further, if the man should yet come thither. And the Lord answered, Behold he hath hid himself among the stuff.
And they ran and fetched him thence: and when he stood among the people, he was higher than any of the people from his shoulders and upward.
And Samuel said to all the people, See ye him whom the Lord hath chosen, that there is none like him among all the people? And all the people shouted, and said, God save the king.
Then Samuel told the people the manner of the kingdom, and wrote it in a book, and laid it up before the Lord. And Samuel sent all the people away, every man to his house.
And Saul also went home to Gibeah; and there went with him a band of men, whose hearts God had touched.
But the children of Belial said, How shall this man save us? And they despised him, and brought him no presents. But he held his peace.

“he was higher than any of the people from his shoulders and upward.”
“And Saul also went home to Gibeah”
“there went with him a band of men”
“whose hearts God had touched”
“But the children of Belial said, How shall this man save us?”
“And they despised him, and brought him no presents. But he held his peace.”

And Saul commanded his servants, saying, Commune with David secretly, and say, Behold, the king hath delight in thee, and all his servants love thee: now therefore be the king's son in law.

“Saul commanded his servants”
“Commune with David secretly”
“the king hath delight in thee”
“all his servants love thee”

Saul and Jonathan were lovely and pleasant in their lives, and in their death they were not divided: they were swifter than eagles, they were stronger than lions.
Ye daughters of Israel, weep over Saul, who clothed you in scarlet, with other delights, who put on ornaments of gold upon your apparel.
How are the mighty fallen in the midst of the battle! O Jonathan, thou wast slain in thine high places.
I am distressed for thee, my brother Jonathan: very pleasant hast thou been unto me: thy love to me was wonderful, passing the love of women.

“Saul and Jonathan were lovely and pleasant in their lives”
“in their death they were not divided”
“I am distressed for thee, my brother Jonathan”
“very pleasant hast thou been unto me”
“thy love to me was wonderful”

I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you.
For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.

“but as my beloved sons I warn you.”
“For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ”
“yet have ye not many fathers”
“for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.”
“Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.”

My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
I desire to be present with you now, and to change my voice; for I stand in doubt of you.
Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

“I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you”
“ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?”

Sign 2
Scientists using radiocarbon dating have confirmed that an ancient Judean date palm seed among those found in the ruins of Masada in present-day Israel and planted three years ago is 2,000 years old -- the oldest seed ever to germinate.

“planted three years ago”
“is 2,000 years old”

And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

“they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.”

All the souls that came with Jacob into Egypt, which came out of his loins, besides Jacob's sons' wives, all the souls were threescore and six;
And the sons of Joseph, which were born him in Egypt, were two souls: all the souls of the house of Jacob, which came into Egypt, were threescore and ten.

“All the souls that came with Jacob”
“which came out of his loins”
“all the souls of the house of Jacob”
“were threescore and ten”

And the people murmured against Moses, saying, What shall we drink?
And he cried unto the Lord; and the Lord shewed him a tree, which when he had cast into the waters, the waters were made sweet: there he made for them a statute and an ordinance, and there he proved them,
And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the Lord thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the Lord that healeth thee.
And they came to Elim, where were twelve wells of water, and threescore and ten palm trees: and they encamped there by the waters.

“And they came to Elim”
“where were twelve wells of water”
“threescore and ten palm trees”
“they encamped there by the waters”

And the children of Israel again did evil in the sight of the Lord, when Ehud was dead.
And the Lord sold them into the hand of Jabin king of Canaan, that reigned in Hazor; the captain of whose host was Sisera, which dwelt in Harosheth of the Gentiles.
And the children of Israel cried unto the Lord: for he had nine hundred chariots of iron; and twenty years he mightily oppressed the children of Israel.
And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time.
And she dwelt under the palm tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in mount Ephraim: and the children of Israel came up to her for judgment.

“the children of Israel cried unto the Lord”
“And Deborah, a prophetess”
“she judged Israel at that time”
“she dwelt under the palm tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in mount Ephraim”
“the children of Israel came up to her for judgment.”

The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree: he shall grow like a cedar in Lebanon.
Those that be planted in the house of the Lord shall flourish in the courts of our God.
They shall still bring forth fruit in old age; they shall be fat and flourishing;
To shew that the Lord is upright: he is my rock, and there is no unrighteousness in him.

“The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree”
“Those that be planted in the house of the Lord shall flourish in the courts of our God”
“They shall still bring forth fruit in old age”

And this is the blessing, wherewith Moses the man of God blessed the children of Israel before his death.
And he said, The Lord came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them.
Yea, he loved the people; all his saints are in thy hand: and they sat down at thy feet; every one shall receive of thy words.
Moses commanded us a law, even the inheritance of the congregation of Jacob.

All these men of war, that could keep rank, came with a perfect heart to Hebron, to make David king over all Israel: and all the rest also of Israel were of one heart to make David king.
And there they were with David three days, eating and drinking: for their brethren had prepared for them.
Moreover they that were nigh them, even unto Issachar and Zebulun and Naphtali, brought bread on asses, and on camels, and on mules, and on oxen, and meat, meal, cakes of figs, and bunches of raisins, and wine, and oil, and oxen, and sheep abundantly: for there was joy in Israel.

“All these men of war, that could keep rank”
“came with a perfect heart to Hebron”
“to make David king over all Israel”
“all the rest also of Israel were of one heart to make David king.”
“there they were with David three days”
“cakes of figs, and bunches of raisins”

But David pursued, he and four hundred men: for two hundred abode behind, which were so faint that they could not go over the brook Besor.
And they found an Egyptian in the field, and brought him to David, and gave him bread, and he did eat; and they made him drink water;
And they gave him a piece of a cake of figs, and two clusters of raisins: and when he had eaten, his spirit came again to him: for he had eaten no bread, nor drunk any water, three days and three nights.
And David said unto him, To whom belongest thou? and whence art thou? And he said, I am a young man of Egypt, servant to an Amalekite; and my master left me, because three days agone I fell sick.

“they found an Egyptian in the field, and brought him to David”
“gave him bread, and he did eat; and they made him drink water”
“they gave him a piece of a cake of figs, and two clusters of raisins”
“when he had eaten, his spirit came again to him”
“three days and three nights.”
“because three days agone I fell sick.”

Whoso keepeth the fig tree shall eat the fruit thereof: so he that waiteth on his master shall be honoured.

“Whoso keepeth the fig tree shall eat the fruit thereof”
“he that waiteth on his master shall be honoured”

And Judah and Israel dwelt safely, every man under his vine and under his fig tree, from Dan even to Beersheba, all the days of Solomon.

“every man under his vine and under his fig tree”
“all the days of Solomon”

And said unto him, Hearest thou what these say? And Jesus saith unto them, Yea; have ye never read, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise?
And he left them, and went out of the city into Bethany; and he lodged there.
Now in the morning as he returned into the city, he hungered.
And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.
And when the disciples saw it, they marvelled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away!

“when he saw a fig tree in the way”
“found nothing thereon”
“but leaves only”
“Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever”
“And presently the fig tree withered away”

SIGN 3
The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

“The secret things belong unto the Lord”
“that we may do all the words of this law”

The secret of the Lord is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.

“The secret of the Lord is with them that fear him”

He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.

“the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.”

For the froward is abomination to the Lord: but his secret is with the righteous.

“but his secret is with the righteous”

Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

“he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.”

“The Lord came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them”
“he came with ten thousands of saints”
“from his right hand went a fiery law for them”
“he loved the people; all his saints are in thy hand”

And it came to pass as they came, when David was returned from the slaughter of the Philistine, that the women came out of all cities of Israel, singing and dancing, to meet king Saul, with tabrets, with joy, and with instruments of musick.
And the women answered one another as they played, and said, Saul hath slain his thousands, and David his ten thousands.

“David was returned from the slaughter of the Philistine”
“Saul hath slain his thousands”
“David his ten thousands”

Hear, O Israel: Thou art to pass over Jordan this day, to go in to possess nations greater and mightier than thyself, cities great and fenced up to heaven,
A people great and tall, the children of the Anakims, whom thou knowest, and of whom thou hast heard say, Who can stand before the children of Anak!
Understand therefore this day, that the Lord thy God is he which goeth over before thee; as a consuming fire he shall destroy them, and he shall bring them down before thy face: so shalt thou drive them out, and destroy them quickly, as the Lord hath said unto thee.
Speak not thou in thine heart, after that the Lord thy God hath cast them out from before thee, saying, For my righteousness the Lord hath brought me in to possess this land: but for the wickedness of these nations the Lord doth drive them out from before thee.
Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, dost thou go to possess their land: but for the wickedness of these nations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee, and that he may perform the word which the Lord sware unto thy fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

“Thou art to pass over Jordan”
“the Lord thy God is he which goeth over before thee”
“as a consuming fire he shall destroy them”

And Joshua said unto the people, Ye cannot serve the Lord: for he is an holy God; he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins.
If ye forsake the Lord, and serve strange gods, then he will turn and do you hurt, and consume you, after that he hath done you good.
And the people said unto Joshua, Nay; but we will serve the Lord.
And Joshua said unto the people, Ye are witnesses against yourselves that ye have chosen you the Lord, to serve him. And they said, We are witnesses.
Now therefore put away, said he, the strange gods which are among you, and incline your heart unto the Lord God of Israel.
And the people said unto Joshua, The Lord our God will we serve, and his voice will we obey.
So Joshua made a covenant with the people that day, and set them a statute and an ordinance in Shechem.
And Joshua wrote these words in the book of the law of God, and took a great stone, and set it up there under an oak, that was by the sanctuary of the Lord.
And Joshua said unto all the people, Behold, this stone shall be a witness unto us; for it hath heard all the words of the Lord which he spake unto us: it shall be therefore a witness unto you, lest ye deny your God.

“Ye cannot serve the Lord: for he is an holy God”
“he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins.”
“If ye forsake the Lord, and serve strange gods, then he will turn and do you hurt”
“and consume you, after that he hath done you good.”
“Ye are witnesses against yourselves that ye have chosen you the Lord, to serve him”
“The Lord our God will we serve, and his voice will we obey”
“Behold, this stone shall be a witness unto us;”
“ for it hath heard all the words of the Lord which he spake unto us:”
“ it shall be therefore a witness unto you, lest ye deny your God.”

Then said David to the Philistine, Thou comest to me with a sword, and with a spear, and with a shield: but I come to thee in the name of the Lord of hosts, the God of the armies of Israel, whom thou hast defied.
This day will the Lord deliver thee into mine hand; and I will smite thee, and take thine head from thee; and I will give the carcases of the host of the Philistines this day unto the fowls of the air, and to the wild beasts of the earth; that all the earth may know that there is a God in Israel.
And all this assembly shall know that the Lord saveth not with sword and spear: for the battle is the Lord's, and he will give you into our hands.
And it came to pass, when the Philistine arose, and came, and drew nigh to meet David, that David hasted, and ran toward the army to meet the Philistine.
And David put his hand in his bag, and took thence a stone, and slang it, and smote the Philistine in his forehead, that the stone sunk into his forehead; and he fell upon his face to the earth.
So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and with a stone, and smote the Philistine, and slew him; but there was no sword in the hand of David.
Therefore David ran, and stood upon the Philistine, and took his sword, and drew it out of the sheath thereof, and slew him, and cut off his head therewith. And when the Philistines saw their champion was dead, they fled.

“I come to thee in the name of the Lord of hosts”
” the God of the armies of Israel”
“whom thou hast defied”
“all this assembly shall know that the Lord saveth not with sword and spear”
“for the battle is the Lord's, and he will give you into our hands”
“David put his hand in his bag, and took thence a stone”
“smote the Philistine in his forehead, that the stone sunk into his forehead”
“but there was no sword in the hand of David”
“Therefore David ran, and stood upon the Philistine”
“took his sword, and drew it out of the sheath thereof”
“, and slew him, and cut off his head therewith”

SIGN 4
And Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven; and there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days:
They saw not one another, neither rose any from his place for three days: but all the children of Israel had light in their dwellings.

“Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven”
“there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days”
“but all the children of Israel had light in their dwellings.”

How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?
Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.
Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;
But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:
I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;

“Turn you at my reproof”
“I will pour out my spirit unto you”
“I will make known my words unto you.”
“Because I have called, and ye refused”
“I have stretched out my hand”
“and no man regarded”

And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not.
And the people stood afar off, and Moses drew near unto the thick darkness where God was.
And the Lord said unto Moses, Thus thou shalt say unto the children of Israel, Ye have seen that I have talked with you from heaven.

“for God is come to prove you”
“that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not.”
“Moses drew near unto the thick darkness where God was.”
“Thus thou shalt say unto the children of Israel”
“Ye have seen that I have talked with you from heaven.”

There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone, which Moses put there at Horeb, when the Lord made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt.
And it came to pass, when the priests were come out of the holy place, that the cloud filled the house of the Lord,
So that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud: for the glory of the Lord had filled the house of the Lord.
Then spake Solomon, The Lord said that he would dwell in the thick darkness.
I have surely built thee an house to dwell in, a settled place for thee to abide in for ever.
And the king turned his face about, and blessed all the congregation of Israel:

“the cloud filled the house of the Lord”
“the glory of the Lord had filled the house of the Lord”
“Then spake Solomon, The Lord said that he would dwell in the thick darkness”

Thus saith the Lord to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;
I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:
And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the Lord, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.
For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

“Thus saith the Lord to his anointed, to Cyrus”
“whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him”
“I will give thee the treasures of darkness”
“hidden riches of secret places”
“the Lord, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel”
“I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.”

SIGN 5
And of Levi he said, Let thy Thummim and thy Urim be with thy holy one, whom thou didst prove at Massah, and with whom thou didst strive at the waters of Meribah;
Who said unto his father and to his mother, I have not seen him; neither did he acknowledge his brethren, nor knew his own children: for they have observed thy word, and kept thy covenant.
They shall teach Jacob thy judgments, and Israel thy law: they shall put incense before thee, and whole burnt sacrifice upon thine altar.
Bless, Lord, his substance, and accept the work of his hands; smite through the loins of them that rise against him, and of them that hate him, that they rise not again.

“Let thy Thummim and thy Urim be with thy holy one”

That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;

“That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed”
“as the sand which is upon the sea shore”

And God gave Solomon wisdom and understanding exceeding much, and largeness of heart, even as the sand that is on the sea shore.
And Solomon's wisdom excelled the wisdom of all the children of the east country, and all the wisdom of Egypt.
For he was wiser than all men; than Ethan the Ezrahite, and Heman, and Chalcol, and Darda, the sons of Mahol: and his fame was in all nations round about.

“Solomon wisdom and understanding exceeding much,”
“and largeness of heart,”
“ even as the sand that is on the sea shore.”

These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,
And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

“the generations of the heavens and of the earth”
“the Lord God made the earth and the heavens”
“there went up a mist from the earth”
“watered the whole face of the ground”
“Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground”
“breathed into his nostrils the breath of life”
“man became a living soul”

“the Lord God made the earth and the heavens”

And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

“the tree of life also in the midst of the garden”

Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the Lord hath wrought this?
In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.
Doth not the ear try words? and the mouth taste his meat?

“Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the Lord”
“In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.”

And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

“Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart”
“the heart of thy seed”
“to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul”

And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
Sanctify unto me all the firstborn, whatsoever openeth the womb among the children of Israel, both of man and of beast: it is mine.

“whatsoever openeth the womb”
“among the children of Israel”
“of man and of beast”
“it is mine”

My son, despise not the chastening of the Lord; neither be weary of his correction:
For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding.
For the merchandise of it is better than the merchandise of silver, and the gain thereof than fine gold.
She is more precious than rubies: and all the things thou canst desire are not to be compared unto her.
Length of days is in her right hand; and in her left hand riches and honour.
Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace.
She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her.
The Lord by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens.

“She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her”
“The Lord by wisdom hath founded the earth”
“by understanding hath he established the heavens.”

And ye shall serve the Lord your God, and He shall bless thy bread, and thy water

“He shall bless thy bread”

“the tree of life also in the midst of the garden”
“With him will I speak mouth to mouth”
“Thou shalt feed my people Israel”
“The lips of the righteous feed many”
“I have preached righteousness, I have not refrained my lips”
“She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her”
“The Lord by wisdom hath founded the earth”
“by understanding hath he established the heavens.”

“He shall bless thy water”

The Lord is the portion of mine inheritance and of my cup: thou maintainest my lot.

I will take the cup of salvation, and call upon the name of the Lord.

“He shall bless thy water”

“drinketh water of the rain of heaven”
“My doctrine shall drop as the rain”
“where were twelve wells of water, and threescore and ten palm trees: and they encamped there by the waters.”
“The Lord is the portion of mine inheritance and of my cup”
“I will take the cup of salvation”

Soul- bread= “She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her”
Breath- water= “drinketh water of the rain of heaven” “My doctrine shall drop as the rain”

These sought their register among those that were reckoned by genealogy, but they were not found: therefore were they, as polluted, put from the priesthood.
And the Tirshatha said unto them, that they should not eat of the most holy things, till there stood up a priest with Urim and with Thummim.
The whole congregation together was forty and two thousand three hundred and threescore,

“they should not eat of the most holy things, till there stood up a priest with Urim and with Thummim.”

“Thummim and thy Urim be with thy holy one”

“be with thy holy one”

Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.
And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;
Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;
And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.

“the golden pot that had manna”

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

“the hidden manna”

“especially because it may speak of a messiah who will rise from the dead after three days.”
“that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”

“The beloved of the Lord shall dwell in safety by him”
“the Lord shall cover him all the day long”
“he shall dwell between his shoulders”
“he was higher than any of the people from his shoulders and upward.”
“And Saul also went home to Gibeah”
“there went with him a band of men”
“whose hearts God had touched”
“But the children of Belial said, How shall this man save us?”
“And they despised him, and brought him no presents. But he held his peace.”
“Saul commanded his servants”
“Commune with David secretly”
“the king hath delight in thee”
“all his servants love thee”

“they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.”
“All the souls that came with Jacob”
“which came out of his loins”
“all the souls of the house of Jacob”
“were threescore and ten”
“And they came to Elim”
“where were twelve wells of water”
“threescore and ten palm trees”
“they encamped there by the waters”
“The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree”
“Those that be planted in the house of the Lord shall flourish in the courts of our God”
“They shall still bring forth fruit in old age”
“All these men of war, that could keep rank”
“came with a perfect heart to Hebron”
“to make David king over all Israel”
“all the rest also of Israel were of one heart to make David king.”
“there they were with David three days”
“cakes of figs, and bunches of raisins”
“they found an Egyptian in the field, and brought him to David”
“gave him bread, and he did eat; and they made him drink water”
“they gave him a piece of a cake of figs, and two clusters of raisins”
“when he had eaten, his spirit came again to him”
“three days and three nights.”
“because three days agone I fell sick.”
“Whoso keepeth the fig tree shall eat the fruit thereof”
“he that waiteth on his master shall be honoured”
“every man under his vine and under his fig tree”
“all the days of Solomon”

“The Lord came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them”
“he came with ten thousands of saints”
“from his right hand went a fiery law for them”
“he loved the people; all his saints are in thy hand”
“David was returned from the slaughter of the Philistine”
“Saul hath slain his thousands”
“David his ten thousands”
“I come to thee in the name of the Lord of hosts”
” the God of the armies of Israel”
“whom thou hast defied”
“all this assembly shall know that the Lord saveth not with sword and spear”
“for the battle is the Lord's, and he will give you into our hands”
“David put his hand in his bag, and took thence a stone”
“smote the Philistine in his forehead, that the stone sunk into his forehead”
“but there was no sword in the hand of David”
“Therefore David ran, and stood upon the Philistine”
“took his sword, and drew it out of the sheath thereof”
“, and slew him, and cut off his head therewith”

“Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven”
“there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days”
“but all the children of Israel had light in their dwellings.”
“Turn you at my reproof”
“I will pour out my spirit unto you”
“I will make known my words unto you.”
“Because I have called, and ye refused”
“I have stretched out my hand”
“and no man regarded”
“the cloud filled the house of the Lord”
“the glory of the Lord had filled the house of the Lord”
“Then spake Solomon, The Lord said that he would dwell in the thick darkness”
“Thus saith the Lord to his anointed, to Cyrus”
“whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him”
“I will give thee the treasures of darkness”
“hidden riches of secret places”
“the Lord, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel”
“I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.”

“That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed”
“as the sand which is upon the sea shore”
“Solomon wisdom and understanding exceeding much,”
“and largeness of heart,”
“ even as the sand that is on the sea shore.”
“Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart”
“the heart of thy seed”
“to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul”
“whatsoever openeth the womb”
“among the children of Israel”
“of man and of beast”
“it is mine”
“She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her”
“The Lord by wisdom hath founded the earth”
“by understanding hath he established the heavens.”
“He shall bless thy bread”
“the tree of life also in the midst of the garden”
“With him will I speak mouth to mouth”
“Thou shalt feed my people Israel”
“The lips of the righteous feed many”
“I have preached righteousness, I have not refrained my lips”
“She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her”
“The Lord by wisdom hath founded the earth”
“by understanding hath he established the heavens.”
“He shall bless thy water”
“drinketh water of the rain of heaven”
“My doctrine shall drop as the rain”
“where were twelve wells of water, and threescore and ten palm trees: and they encamped there by the waters.”
“The Lord is the portion of mine inheritance and of my cup”
“I will take the cup of salvation”

I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition (Christianity) one redeeming feature. They are all alike, founded upon fables and mythologies.
Thomas Jefferson in a letter to Dr Woods

It has been well said that one should not be so open minded that one's brains fall out. This is a good admonition to those who, for example, pusillanimously declare themselves agnostics when the only rational alternative to belief in the existence of supernatural beings can be atheism.

This is because the basis of belief in the existence and gods and goddesses is no different from that for belief in pixies, namely legend and credulity; and the grounds for entertaining the thought that something might exist (footprints, fur snagged on fences, grunting in the night, actually seeing the creature in question bounding up a hillside) require much better and more consistent supports than the pre-scientific fictions invented by our ancestors to explain what they did not understand.

People forget how strong the belief in the Little People was until quite recently - they were a feature of things well into Victorian times and even later. They were blamed for much, such as missing pins and curdled milk, the lights seen on the marshes,and various aches and twinges suffered by old ladies. As reason diffused its happy light over the Western hemisphere, courtesy of the growth of literacy in those same times, belief in pixies and their ilk faded.

But superstition has strong talons; a lady of Cork, literate and generally sensible, was once asked whether she believed in leprechauns, and replied, "I do not, but they are there anyway," thus beautifully capturing the spirit of agnosticism in all its faint-hearted fence-sitting tendentiousness; for it is premised on the fact that since no one has proved that X does not exist, X might exist, as if this in any way followed, and as if responsible and disciplined intellectual endeavor does not show the fallacy of thinking that, for example, the fact that no one has proved the non-existence of Tolkein's Hobbits means that they therefore might exist in some Middle Earth after all.

Still: it remains important to be open-minded, though with a readiness to subject what is offered for our intellectual assent to stringent evaluation by the light of probability and experience. These two latter are indispensable servants of thought. They explain the difference between the assiduity with which some seek the Loch Ness Monster, while no such expense of cameras and microphones, boats and planes, bearded researchers and photojournalists has ever clustered around the possibility that a woodland grove might be the scene of moonlit pixie parties. For the idea of large marine beasts has a plausibility endowed by whales and manatees, while the idea of antique such beasts has its plausibility from sharks and coelacanths, both of them survivors from hideous depths of zoological time.

Oddly, it is the credulous who are the least open-minded. They accept dogma, and dogma closes - even indeed punishes - enquiry thereafter.
Voltaire says that he honors the man who seeks truth, but despises the man who claims to have found it.
The saying touches the essence of the difference exceedingly well, and should be the motto of anyone who aspires to intellectual honesty.

Great article. very interesting, level-headed and insightful. peace.

it is entirely possible we may be arguing points that are brought up with the incorrect names thus making real solutins difficult or imppossible.. it seems a large numbr of people think faith and religion are interchangeable equal words to be used one for the other in language...plese check 4 truth if any... it would seem that people could and do have fatith in the real world with out haiving religion or having different conflicting ideas in some instances with thier respective religions... faith is the belief in the divine the unknowable , the greater than human entity which i cal God, faith is a more all inclusive word if it is used corectly it would seem and could possibly in our life and times, the thing that copeteing religions might could actually agree upon and treasure the sameness and unity it would bring..i we chose individually and as groups to merely understand this distiction. by definition it would seem that all a religion needs to actually in the real world to be considered as one of the world religions is to simply state that as a fact and put forth docerines and codes of conduct or the method and type of public ceromony involved..... faith on the other hand is somthing a person as an individual either has within the boundrys of ones own psyche and conciencse and all people of faith talk about the inner voice that brings wisdom beyound human understanding... you can be a member in a religion or a church and have little or no faith and use it as a social club instead of a spiritual group...and still be a member in good standing with the religion or church,.so as a proud american on the day after the 4 th of july i sincerly pray and hope that our leaders would always have faith in a spiritual entity, by i would never ever want someones religion put forth because the way i understand things the religion is of and dependant upon the wisdon of humans faith is not... and the worst of all possible worlds and solutions would be the misguide human assuming the certaintly of a god and making proclomations and comands instead of wisely talking with other spiritual people then praying meditating and listening to the voice. the voice in the head is not the voice of the heart thats why it brings headaches maybe

Enough already with this 'god' obsession by members of the press! Your job - in case you have forgotten, Mr. Fineman - is to report the news. I couldn't care less about your god. Just tell me what the stock market is doing; report on our endless wars; keep an eye on the government.

Instead, you write about "faith." And hey, guess what? Faith is not exclusive to the religious community. Stop throwing the word around as if that makes you part of an exclusive club.

I have faith, too: In reason and love and humanity. Am I religious? No. But I don't need your old man in the sky. Just like Jefferson didn't need him, either.

You children! Grow up and realize that this life is all that there is. And if endless wars, malformed babies, disease, starvation and Britney Spears isn't enough to convince you that there is no sentient being guiding our destinies, then I guess you're farther gone than I thought.

Now, excuse me, I have some more drinking to do.

Yond Cassius:

With the lean and hungry look? And who are your Ceasars?

Jand:
Thanks for the threats of violence. That's all you believers have left in your quiver, now that science has explained nearly everything.

So, go ahead: threaten us nonbelievers. Tell us that your magical, invisible friend will send the magical, invisible part of us that lives after we die to be tortured by your magical, invisible enemy in an awful, magical, invisible place in the ground, while you go fly off to the happy, magical, invisible place in the sky where your magical, invisible friend lives.

It's sad that anyone falls for such a ludicrous scenario.

Howard Fineman:

Seen this?

"The Secret of Armageddon" - An Iranian TV "Documentary" Claims That "a Jewish Plan for the Genocide of Humanity," Includes a Conspiracy for the Takeover of Iran by Local Jewish and Bahai Communities:

http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/1802.htm

Did this TV series really air on the Iranian news channel IRINN in May and June 2008 ?

One Anonymous(A) refer to another Anonymous (B) as ”stupid” because the latter (B)described the Buraq, the shuttle that Muhammad allegedly flew to Heaven, as half horse half human. The truth is that Buraq was a horse with wings. The idea was borrowed from the Minawi pagan religion tale of a flying camel with wings. It is beyond my comprehension how someone who believes this nonsense’s would call anybody “stupid”.
Barak is derived from the Arabic word "baraka" which means "blessing".

All religion does indeed lead to God Howard. All but one lead to judgement and hell. The Lord Jesus Christ came to earth to die. And to be resurrected. And He commanded, "You must be born again." "You must have the Holy Spirit in you." Works based religions are hell bound. Those who think Jesus was a good man like any other good man are hell bound. Those who think by doing good works of charity one gains entry into heaven are hellbound.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the power of God for salvation.
The same Gospel that the Apostles believed and preached is the same Gospel I give to you today.
Namely, "...that Jesus Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures (Isaiah 53.05-12), and that He was buried, and that He was raised
on the third day according to the Scriptures (Psalms 16.8ff)" (1 Corinthians 15.3-4).
You can never be good enough to be accepted by God. He requires you accept what His Son did on the cross for you. Even after you accept Christ as your Lord and Savior you cannot be good enough to be acceptable other than through His Son.
Believe God and believe in Jesus. Read your bible! Pray! Go to church.

Stupid Anonymous- The horse (all horse not half-human) was named Al-Buraq, which means lightning.
In Arabic, the name Baraka, Barakat etc means Blessing or Gift.
They are different words with different meanings. Get your facts straight.

For those of you who do not know Barack, according to Islamic mythology, was the name of the horse-human, half and half, that Muhammad, the founder of Islam, rode to heaven and met with Allah, Jesus, Moses and Abraham.

The journey proved, at least to Muslims, that he was a prophet of Allah in the same line as the other prophets he had just met.

But the Jews did not accept him as their prophet.

So he and his fighters, also tempted by the wealth of the Jews, murdered 800 Jewish males of the Banu Qurayza tribe, stole all their land and other property and sold the widows and orphans into slavery, keeping 20% of the proceeds. he also took a 15 year old widow, Rayhana, as a slave girl for sexual purposes. Rayhana refused to become a Muslim so he did not marry her. She stayed with Muhammad as his sex slave until died in the arms of his child wife, Aisha.

Eventually Muhammad carried out a complete ethnic cleansing of the Jews from Arabia and was clearly the founder not only of Islam but also of Nazism.

America has done right by faith and religion.

There are no false gods but religions can become false. They become false and harmful when a religion claims its way is the only way to God, whether he exists or not, and then imposes the faith on others. This is especially true of Christianity and Islam, the two proseletyzing faiths that have been responsible for many of the major massacres.

The separation of church has gone a long way in preventing religions from being false. But America can do better by prohibiting anyone, including parents from teaching religion and imposing religion, on any one under 21 years of age. This includes the children of the parents.

We ban alcohol to under 21s, why not religion which is far more harmful then alcohol?

The fundamental dispute is between reason and faith. Whether our lives and our country are to be ruled by fact and logic or -- at least in crucial part -- ruled by feelings of belief anchored to no other reality than the beliefs themselves.

Unanchored beliefs which compete or reign not just in matters of religion but, even more frighteningly, in every area of our society including our attempts to do science.

We non-believers should be thankful to the gods of random chance that our Christian brothers and sisters have not -- not yet, anyway -- slaughtered us and and fed us to the hogs down there in Braddock, Texas.

Let's face it, we're living on a "planet of the apes," and to expect that our government, our whole society, and us, will not be the continuing victims of the apes for possibly the next several millenia may be just as irrational as their beliefs in their supernatural silliness.

So what are we to do then? I don't know, but maybe this is why "God created" the Gallic shrug and obscenities. (And here I stop, shrug Gallicly, and mutter to myself, obscenely.)

Author Russell Hamner unleashes a resounding expansion with Tate Publishing that cannot be ignored in his antithesis - Awake the third Testament.

Beginning with religion Awake gives conclusive proof that the worlds understanding of Christianity is inexact. Starting with the understanding of Faith, Awake at last defines just exactly what Faith is, showing that faith is not just believing that there is a Jesus Christ, reproving Martin Luther’s theory “by faith alone”

Gods’ Will Before Religion:
If you believe that God gave us life in Genesis, and you believe that God freed us in Exodus. Then you can understand that Jesus Christ came to do Gods will, which is to free us and save us. And we should believe him because God raised him on the third day to prove that doing Gods will of giving life with the life you have been given, brings life. And suggests that giving death brings death.
It is Gods’ Spirit to give life and freedom; it is Gods’ will to give life and freedom

If you believe and understand that everything in the law is what is wrong to God, and there is a punishment for it. Then you can see why that it is ok with God to give life, and give liberty because it is what he did himself, and he designed the law to protect life and liberty.

If you believe that it is wrong to give life and give freedom, you denounce your own life and freedom. You can’t say it is wrong to give life or give freedom because then you believe in having your life taken and your freedom taken.

These are the only two events that can be revealed in our reality that cannot be viewed as evil or against the law. It is pure; it does not offend; it is divine.

Government:
Awake then reveals how the Colonist used the very will of God, to free and save The U.S. from death and bondage, and form a nation in the name of God.

Gods’ will is completed, proven and recorded in the Declaration of Independence. They did Gods will and prayed for Independence, and became a nation that gives life and gives freedom.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

This is to say the truth is self evident that their religious beliefs given by God are life and liberty. The only way to happiness is being alive and being free.

That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men,
(deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.)
This is to say that governments are formed for the protection of our religious beliefs of life, and liberty, and the governed have a say as to their life and liberty.

That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

This is to say that anytime any form of government becomes destructive to Gods will of life and liberty, it is the right and the duty of the people to abolish it and set a new or conformed government that is not destructive to life and liberty.

And they vowed their lives, fortunes and sacred honor, to save life, and give freedom and happiness to the oppressed. The power of Jesus Christ Awakes!

And for the support of this declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, [Godly Intervention] we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

They proved that doing the will of God brought life, freedom, and happiness, that politics and law are sub-compartments of religion, and religion holds the true power. And from that day it made us the greatest country in the world because they gave life and gave freedom, Gods will.

Critics say, “We don’t mix religion and politics,” scientists say, “Religion is not a science.” I believe that these mind-sets have been instrumental in why we have not discovered what I reveal in “Awake the third testament.”

I have discovered the religious science that has the ability to balance all science
Ø Political science. The main concern with political science is to establish how power is exercised, and by whom, in resolving conflict within a nation.
Ø Social science. The scientific study of the best social plan for society outside of government as a nation.
Ø Economic science. The scientific study of the creation and distribution of wealth and national income to combat depression and economic stagnation.

The science of religion:
This is the science of religion and how it would solve the problematic sciences of political, social and economic science. In the beginning when God saved the Israelites out of Egypt, he instituted the perfect political and religious science that deals with life on earth as a nation.

1. He instituted the government of the law, and appointed Moses as the governor to protect the nation with powers of the military and law.
2. He instituted the Government of Jesus Christ, and appointed Aaron as the governor of the spirit of God, a saving government that is for the welfare of his people with powers of the spirit of life.
He instituted two bodies of power, one to run the law and one to run the kingdom of Christ. And there is a very good reason he instituted two powers, because he knew he also created two types of people:

1. The conservative republican, whose spirit, is to defend his nation, and execute the law to those who choose to take life with the powers that be.
2. The social democrat, whose spirit, is to love his brother in giving him the basic necessities of life out of the powers that be.

Awakes main object is to awaken the two hundred million religious in the U.S. to unite and Form the body of Christ, and bring forth the government of Christ, a National Church that gives life and freedom creating true peace & happiness

“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the Government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The Mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his Government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The Zeal of the Lord of host will perform this.” (Isaiah 9:6-7)

This would more logically organize the powers. Instead of the social leaders butting heads with the conservative leaders they would be separated, ending the great conflict in Government resolving political science!

1. This would allow the federal government of law to run at 100% efficiency without social issues throwing a wrench into the machinery. They would continue to protect life and freedom.

2. This would allow Christ’s social government to run at 100% efficiency without having lawful issues throwing a wrench in the machinery. They would give life and give freedom resolving social science!

Economics:
In 2008 the federal budget, 2.66 trillion dollars were accumulated in taxation.

In comparison, if the 200 million Christians unite and form the temple/government of Christ, and put the entire tithe in the temple from the 340,000 churches in America it could accumulate 1.56 trillion dollars annually.

In the federal budget 1.52 trillion was spent on social issues such as social security, Medicare, Medicaid, SCHIP unemployment/welfare/other, that was derived by taxation.

Through the faith based initiative put forth by president Bush, all of these social programs could be transferred from the federal government to the government of Christ, eliminating the need for most taxation, or allowing new tax measures such as the fair tax method, which would free up money and increase the economy.

The government of Christ would focus on the main issues that affect the people, by helping the federal government pay down the national deficit, which would increase the value of the dollar, bringing down the cost of energy and commodities.

Slack in demand causes recession and depression, whenever people quit buying for any reason whatsoever the economy stalls. The government of Christ, working with the federal government would then issue billions of dollars in vouchers to the poor for housing, or furnishings, or automobiles. [Whichever market is failing] Saving that market, preventing recession and simultaneously saving the poor, this in time will bring about a wealthy classless society.

It would create millions of jobs and put “We The People” back in control of our own destiny. We would have the financial power of another country inside this country. And it would double the power and efficiency of the American economy, which in time would balance the world economy, resolving economic science.

The greatest philosophers of all times struggled to answer these questions, Plato, Aristotle, Machiavelli and Marx and although they could see all of the elements of socialism and capitalism, law and religion. They could not see how to make it work, and saw revolution, communism and oppression as the end result.
Because they didn’t understand, we don’t need a revolution we need a revelation!

Revelation 10:7 - But in the days of the voice of the seventh Angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he has declared to his servants the prophets.

Revelation 10: 15 - And the seventh Angel sounded: and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord (1) and Of his Christ;(2) and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Awake: The Third Testament “to the mystery of the kingdom of heaven”

“LET US DARE TO READ, THINK, SPEAK AND WRITE.” – JOHN ADAMS, 1765

This century Abdu’l Baha’ predicted a successful synthesis of the spiritual and material sciences in the near future: This union will bring about true civilization where the spiritual is expressed and carried out in the material. Receiving thus, one from the other, the greatest harmony will prevail, all people will be united, a state of great perfection will be attained, there will be a firm cementing, and this world will become a shining mirror for the reflection of the attributes of God. (1911) “Paris Talks.

Quoting “After you've done that what happens to you will be your own fault. Right now you can blame your parents for what you are.”

Here is my answer, the quotes are from the script I reveal. Only a fool will not see whom I conceived by.

Lo children are an heritage of the Lord: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.

“out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight”
“the tree of life also in the midst of the garden”

My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.
The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the Lord that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.
All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the Lord: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.
For the kingdom is the Lord's: and he is the governor among the nations.
All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.
A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.
They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.

“All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the Lord”
“all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee”
“A seed shall serve him”
“it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation”
“shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born”

The Lord hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne.
If thy children will keep my covenant and my testimony that I shall teach them, their children shall also sit upon thy throne for evermore.
For the Lord hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.

“Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne”
“If thy children will keep my covenant and my testimony that I shall teach them”
“their children shall also sit upon thy throne for evermore.”

Good and upright is the Lord: therefore will he teach sinners in the way.
The meek will he guide in judgment: and the meek will he teach his way.
All the paths of the Lord are mercy and truth unto such as keep his covenant and his testimonies.
For thy name's sake, O Lord, pardon mine iniquity; for it is great.
What man is he that feareth the Lord? him shall he teach in the way that he shall choose.
His soul shall dwell at ease; and his seed shall inherit the earth.
The secret of the Lord is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.

“therefore will he teach sinners in the way”
“The meek will he guide in judgment”
“the meek will he teach his way”
“mercy and truth unto such as keep his covenant and his testimonies.”
“him shall he teach in the way that he shall choose.”
“His soul shall dwell at ease; and his seed shall inherit the earth.”
“The secret of the Lord is with them that fear him”
“he will shew them his covenant”

And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
Sanctify unto me all the firstborn, whatsoever openeth the womb among the children of Israel, both of man and of beast: it is mine.
And Moses said unto the people, Remember this day, in which ye came out from Egypt, out of the house of bondage; for by strength of hand the Lord brought you out from this place: there shall no leavened bread be eaten.

“whatsoever openeth the womb among the children of Israel”
“both of man and of beast”
“it is mine”

My son, despise not the chastening of the Lord; neither be weary of his correction:
For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding.
For the merchandise of it is better than the merchandise of silver, and the gain thereof than fine gold.
She is more precious than rubies: and all the things thou canst desire are not to be compared unto her.
Length of days is in her right hand; and in her left hand riches and honour.
Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace.
She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her.
The Lord by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens.

“the generations of the heavens and of the earth”
“in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens”

“Happy is the man that findeth wisdom”
“the man that getteth understanding”
“Length of days is in her right hand”
“in her left hand riches and honour”
“Her ways are ways of pleasantness”
“all her paths are peace”
“She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her”
“The Lord by wisdom hath founded the earth”
“by understanding hath he established the heavens.”
“in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens”

“went up a mist from the earth”
“watered the whole face of the ground”
“the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground”
“breathed into his nostrils the breath of life”
“man became a living soul”
“And the Lord said, Arise, anoint him: for this is he”
“Samuel took the horn of oil”
“anointed him in the midst”
“the Spirit of the Lord came upon David from that day forward”
“the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush”
“the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed”
“Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk”
“I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way”
“Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions:”
“for My name is in him”
“But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak”
“then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.”
“And ye shall serve the Lord your God”
“He shall bless thy bread, and thy water”
“the Lord thy God is a consuming fire”
“a jealous God”
“Thou art to pass over Jordan”
“the Lord thy God is he which goeth over before thee”
“as a consuming fire he shall destroy them”
“Ye cannot serve the Lord: for he is an holy God”
“he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins.”
“If ye forsake the Lord, and serve strange gods, then he will turn and do you hurt”
“and consume you, after that he hath done you good.”
“Ye are witnesses against yourselves that ye have chosen you the Lord, to serve him”
“The Lord our God will we serve, and his voice will we obey”
“Behold, this stone shall be a witness unto us;”
“ for it hath heard all the words of the Lord which he spake unto us:”
“ it shall be therefore a witness unto you, lest ye deny your God.”
“I come to thee in the name of the Lord of hosts”
” the God of the armies of Israel”
“whom thou hast defied”
“all this assembly shall know that the Lord saveth not with sword and spear”
“for the battle is the Lord's, and he will give you into our hands”
“David put his hand in his bag, and took thence a stone”
“smote the Philistine in his forehead, that the stone sunk into his forehead”
“but there was no sword in the hand of David”
“Therefore David ran, and stood upon the Philistine”
“took his sword, and drew it out of the sheath thereof”
“, and slew him, and cut off his head therewith”
“The Lord came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them”
“he came with ten thousands of saints”
“from his right hand went a fiery law for them”
“he loved the people; all his saints are in thy hand”
“David was returned from the slaughter of the Philistine”
“Saul hath slain his thousands”
“David his ten thousands”
“I have set the Lord always before me: because he is at my right hand”
“thou that savest by thy right hand them which put their trust in thee from those that rise up against them”
“I looked on my right hand”
“there was no man that would know me”
“refuge failed me”
“no man cared for my soul”

These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,
And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

“the generations of the heavens and of the earth”
“in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens”
“the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth”
“there was not a man to till the ground”
“went up a mist from the earth”
“watered the whole face of the ground”
“the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground”
“breathed into his nostrils the breath of life”
“man became a living soul”
“out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight”
“and good for food”
“the tree of life also in the midst of the garden”
“the tree of knowledge of good and evil”

So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

“a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life”

And the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.

“the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush”
“the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed”

The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring into the house of the Lord thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.
Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.
Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for My name is in him.
But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.
For mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off.
Thou shalt not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do after their works: but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images.
And ye shall serve the Lord your God, and He shall bless thy bread, and thy water; and I will take sickness away from the midst of thee.

“Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk”
“I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way”
“to bring thee into the place which I have prepared”
“Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions:”
“for My name is in him”
“But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak”
“then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.”
“And ye shall serve the Lord your God”
“He shall bless thy bread, and thy water”

Take heed unto yourselves, lest ye forget the covenant of the Lord your God, which he made with you, and make you a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, which the Lord thy God hath forbidden thee.
For the Lord thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.

“the Lord thy God is a consuming fire”
“a jealous God”

And this is the blessing, wherewith Moses the man of God blessed the children of Israel before his death.
And he said, The Lord came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them.
Yea, he loved the people; all his saints are in thy hand: and they sat down at thy feet; every one shall receive of thy words.
Moses commanded us a law, even the inheritance of the congregation of Jacob.

“The Lord came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them”
“he came with ten thousands of saints”
“from his right hand went a fiery law for them”
“he loved the people; all his saints are in thy hand”

And it came to pass as they came, when David was returned from the slaughter of the Philistine, that the women came out of all cities of Israel, singing and dancing, to meet king Saul, with tabrets, with joy, and with instruments of musick.
And the women answered one another as they played, and said, Saul hath slain his thousands, and David his ten thousands.

“David was returned from the slaughter of the Philistine”
“Saul hath slain his thousands”
“David his ten thousands”

Hear, O Israel: Thou art to pass over Jordan this day, to go in to possess nations greater and mightier than thyself, cities great and fenced up to heaven,
A people great and tall, the children of the Anakims, whom thou knowest, and of whom thou hast heard say, Who can stand before the children of Anak!
Understand therefore this day, that the Lord thy God is he which goeth over before thee; as a consuming fire he shall destroy them, and he shall bring them down before thy face: so shalt thou drive them out, and destroy them quickly, as the Lord hath said unto thee.
Speak not thou in thine heart, after that the Lord thy God hath cast them out from before thee, saying, For my righteousness the Lord hath brought me in to possess this land: but for the wickedness of these nations the Lord doth drive them out from before thee.
Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, dost thou go to possess their land: but for the wickedness of these nations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee, and that he may perform the word which the Lord sware unto thy fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

“Thou art to pass over Jordan”
“the Lord thy God is he which goeth over before thee”
“as a consuming fire he shall destroy them”

And Joshua said unto the people, Ye cannot serve the Lord: for he is an holy God; he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins.
If ye forsake the Lord, and serve strange gods, then he will turn and do you hurt, and consume you, after that he hath done you good.
And the people said unto Joshua, Nay; but we will serve the Lord.
And Joshua said unto the people, Ye are witnesses against yourselves that ye have chosen you the Lord, to serve him. And they said, We are witnesses.
Now therefore put away, said he, the strange gods which are among you, and incline your heart unto the Lord God of Israel.
And the people said unto Joshua, The Lord our God will we serve, and his voice will we obey.
So Joshua made a covenant with the people that day, and set them a statute and an ordinance in Shechem.
And Joshua wrote these words in the book of the law of God, and took a great stone, and set it up there under an oak, that was by the sanctuary of the Lord.
And Joshua said unto all the people, Behold, this stone shall be a witness unto us; for it hath heard all the words of the Lord which he spake unto us: it shall be therefore a witness unto you, lest ye deny your God.

“Ye cannot serve the Lord: for he is an holy God”
“he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins.”
“If ye forsake the Lord, and serve strange gods, then he will turn and do you hurt”
“and consume you, after that he hath done you good.”
“Ye are witnesses against yourselves that ye have chosen you the Lord, to serve him”
“The Lord our God will we serve, and his voice will we obey”
“Behold, this stone shall be a witness unto us;”
“ for it hath heard all the words of the Lord which he spake unto us:”
“ it shall be therefore a witness unto you, lest ye deny your God.”

Then said David to the Philistine, Thou comest to me with a sword, and with a spear, and with a shield: but I come to thee in the name of the Lord of hosts, the God of the armies of Israel, whom thou hast defied.
This day will the Lord deliver thee into mine hand; and I will smite thee, and take thine head from thee; and I will give the carcases of the host of the Philistines this day unto the fowls of the air, and to the wild beasts of the earth; that all the earth may know that there is a God in Israel.
And all this assembly shall know that the Lord saveth not with sword and spear: for the battle is the Lord's, and he will give you into our hands.
And it came to pass, when the Philistine arose, and came, and drew nigh to meet David, that David hasted, and ran toward the army to meet the Philistine.
And David put his hand in his bag, and took thence a stone, and slang it, and smote the Philistine in his forehead, that the stone sunk into his forehead; and he fell upon his face to the earth.
So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and with a stone, and smote the Philistine, and slew him; but there was no sword in the hand of David.
Therefore David ran, and stood upon the Philistine, and took his sword, and drew it out of the sheath thereof, and slew him, and cut off his head therewith. And when the Philistines saw their champion was dead, they fled.

“I come to thee in the name of the Lord of hosts”
” the God of the armies of Israel”
“whom thou hast defied”
“all this assembly shall know that the Lord saveth not with sword and spear”
“for the battle is the Lord's, and he will give you into our hands”
“David put his hand in his bag, and took thence a stone”
“smote the Philistine in his forehead, that the stone sunk into his forehead”
“but there was no sword in the hand of David”
“Therefore David ran, and stood upon the Philistine”
“took his sword, and drew it out of the sheath thereof”
“, and slew him, and cut off his head therewith”

Then Jesse made Shammah to pass by. And he said, Neither hath the Lord chosen this.
Again, Jesse made seven of his sons to pass before Samuel. And Samuel said unto Jesse, The Lord hath not chosen these.
And Samuel said unto Jesse, Are here all thy children? And he said, There remaineth yet the youngest, and, behold, he keepeth the sheep. And Samuel said unto Jesse, Send and fetch him: for we will not sit down till he come hither.
And he sent, and brought him in. Now he was ruddy, and withal of a beautiful countenance, and goodly to look to. And the Lord said, Arise, anoint him: for this is he.
Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the Lord came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah.

“Jesse made seven of his sons to pass before Samuel”
“And Samuel said unto Jesse, The Lord hath not chosen these.”
“And the Lord said, Arise, anoint him: for this is he”
“Samuel took the horn of oil”
“anointed him in the midst”
“the Spirit of the Lord came upon David from that day forward”

I will bless the Lord, who hath given me counsel: my reins also instruct me in the night seasons.
I have set the Lord always before me: because he is at my right hand, I shall not be moved.

“I have set the Lord always before me: because he is at my right hand”

Shew thy marvellous lovingkindness, O thou that savest by thy right hand them which put their trust in thee from those that rise up against them.

“thou that savest by thy right hand them which put their trust in thee from those that rise up against them”

When my spirit was overwhelmed within me, then thou knewest my path. In the way wherein I walked have they privily laid a snare for me.
I looked on my right hand, and beheld, but there was no man that would know me: refuge failed me; no man cared for my soul.

“I looked on my right hand”
“there was no man that would know me”
“refuge failed me”
“no man cared for my soul”

“went up a mist from the earth”
“watered the whole face of the ground”
“the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground”
“breathed into his nostrils the breath of life”
“man became a living soul”
“And the Lord said, Arise, anoint him: for this is he”
“Samuel took the horn of oil”
“anointed him in the midst”
“the Spirit of the Lord came upon David from that day forward”
“the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush”
“the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed”
“Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk”
“I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way”
“Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions:”
“for My name is in him”
“But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak”
“then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.”
“And ye shall serve the Lord your God”
“He shall bless thy bread, and thy water”
“the Lord thy God is a consuming fire”
“a jealous God”
“Thou art to pass over Jordan”
“the Lord thy God is he which goeth over before thee”
“as a consuming fire he shall destroy them”
“Ye cannot serve the Lord: for he is an holy God”
“he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins.”
“If ye forsake the Lord, and serve strange gods, then he will turn and do you hurt”
“and consume you, after that he hath done you good.”
“Ye are witnesses against yourselves that ye have chosen you the Lord, to serve him”
“The Lord our God will we serve, and his voice will we obey”
“Behold, this stone shall be a witness unto us;”
“ for it hath heard all the words of the Lord which he spake unto us:”
“ it shall be therefore a witness unto you, lest ye deny your God.”
“I come to thee in the name of the Lord of hosts”
” the God of the armies of Israel”
“whom thou hast defied”
“all this assembly shall know that the Lord saveth not with sword and spear”
“for the battle is the Lord's, and he will give you into our hands”
“David put his hand in his bag, and took thence a stone”
“smote the Philistine in his forehead, that the stone sunk into his forehead”
“but there was no sword in the hand of David”
“Therefore David ran, and stood upon the Philistine”
“took his sword, and drew it out of the sheath thereof”
“, and slew him, and cut off his head therewith”
“The Lord came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them”
“he came with ten thousands of saints”
“from his right hand went a fiery law for them”
“he loved the people; all his saints are in thy hand”
“David was returned from the slaughter of the Philistine”
“Saul hath slain his thousands”
“David his ten thousands”
“I have set the Lord always before me: because he is at my right hand”
“thou that savest by thy right hand them which put their trust in thee from those that rise up against them”
“I looked on my right hand”
“there was no man that would know me”
“refuge failed me”
“no man cared for my soul”

Lo, children are an heritage of the Lord: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.

Cantabb:

It's real simple. That gene is the "king" gene that causes us to think of the president as the king. We say he's the most powerful man on earth. The only office higher than president is "son of God." That's why it's necessary for candidates to express their faith in God.

Now don't take Bush kneeling before the pope as anything more than him acknowledging that Americans are wrong about the office of president. The office of pope is actually the most powerful office on earth. Want to talk about Billy God the father, Franklin God the son and their patent on holy spirit God?

Is your fallout shelter cleaned, stocked and ready for occupancy? Others are likely to apply for the office of most powerful man on earth.

I enjoyed reading your '13 Arguments'. And in this essay, there are a couple of thing that struck me again:

(i) 'Religion is] in our genes' --- even though 'we separate church and state but not faith and politics.'

I don't know if it's in our 'genes' because in no other field, besides election politics (particularly Presidential) does this 'gene' is turned on and becomes hyper-active. Why so, it's difficult to understand. Maybe our selective schizophrenic attitude; maybe we aren't quie secure in keeping one's faith as part of that person's choice (like a preference for 'blue' over 'purple', Chinese cuisine over Italian).

Sure, "We have no official religion..." but generally act as if we do. If those who thought we did (tried but) couldn't stop JFK (and others since), we were reminded again of Mitt Romney's Mormonism and Obama's father's religion (as compared to Obama's own declared one); or his middle name (as if 'Saddam' was the only Hussein, and forgetting America's long term friend and ally in the Middle East, like Jordan's late King Hussein).

Mayor Bloomberg set a fine example by explaining his choice.

In this increasingly multi-racial/ethnic country, we'll have to rise above, and why our fore-fathers fought for religious freedom.

(ii) You brought up what Jefferson faced in the 1800 election. Can we imagine if we were to face a similarly framed choice: “GOD—AND A RELIGIOUS PRESIDENT; OR (XXX) —AND NO GOD!!”

I just don't think we'll go back to it [thank God :)], but I also think we haven't gone far enough from it either, and could slide back to publicly thinking in those terms without much difficulty.

The British and Europeans are not overtly religious as we are, and the emphasis on Obama's and Romney's religious background has given them an opportunity to point to this (and race and other difference) as anamoly for our democracy, truly great in many respects. A vestigial but unfortunately persistent anachronism to our very roots.

My faith or lack of it is MINE, but I do respect your choice whatever that be !

I don't care what religion a candidate is ... or even if they don't have one ... I want a president who does not propose giving taxpayer dollars to churches ... period.

Here's the truth about Jesse Helms. He was one of the most hateful, evil, wicked racist in America. Unless he repented of this hatefulness and learned to love all people, his soul is now being tormented in hell. The scripture says, "We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him." 1 John 3:14-15

Here's the truth about Jesse Helms. He was one of the most hateful, evil, wicked racist in America. Unless he repented of this hatefulness and learned to love all people, his soul is now being tormented in hell. The scripture says, "We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him." 1 John 3:14-15

** Junk-food faith for a fat-head nation **

America tolerant? Nonsense. I am an atheist, an anti-supernaturalist to be precise. Therefore, I belong to the most despised minority in the US. Why according to GHW Bush, I'm not fit to be a citizen.

Whatever happened to 'freedom of conscience' -- my right not to believe in your otherworldly illusions. The US is still (barely) a secular state which has the misfortune of selective amnesia towards a long, blood soaked history of xian domination.

This website still blathers on about "faith." The last thing I want is the so-called hope, faith, and charity of the xian majority. I grew up in a culture saturated with the stinking piety of bible-believing xians -- intolerance and hatred, ignorance and arrogance . . . millions of fat-heads served every day with junk-food religion. (And all religions are mental junk-food, Mr. Fineman.)

Americans overestimate their openness and tolerance. I suggest to Mr. Fineman that Canada, Australia, and New Zealand are far less prejudiced. I suggest that most countries in Western Europe fit in the same category.

JACK MCKINNEY writes:
While Obama may not be a Muslim, he spent his youth in Indonesia (95 plus Muslim) his step father was Muslim as were his friends there. His father who had been a Muslim and had a Muslim funeral spent time with him in Indonesia. His relatives in Kenya (brothers, sister, step grandmother, uncles, aunts) are Muslim. Ever hear of brainwashing youths?"

Golly, Jack, that's simply brilliant.

Let's see: I'm an atheist who lives in the USA, a country where 90% of the population claims to be religious and 85% claim to be Christians. I was brought up in a Lutheran church and was confirmed at 13. My mom and dad were Xians. Ditto both sets of grandparents. I have 5 siblings. Two are Bible thumpers, one is a non-believer like me and 2 are casual believers at best. Most of my aunts and uncles are also Xians.

Yet, with all that brainwashing into the Xian myth swirling around me, I don't believe any of it for a second. In spite of the brainwashing I received as a youth, I don't believe any of the Xian BS these days.

Of course, Obama isn't me...and Muslim isn't Xian, so I'm sure he's ready to become a martyr as soon as he wins the WH.

And why do you bother writing about Obama in the first place? Logically challenged people like yourself would never vote for a Dem or a black anyway. McCain is your man, the logical extension of the disaster that has been McBush.

While Obama may not be a Muslim, he spent his youth in Indonesia (95 plus Muslim) his step father was Muslim as were his friends there. His father who had been a Muslim and had a Muslim funeral spent time with him in Indonesia. His relatives in Kenya (brothers, sister, step grandmother, uncles, aunts) are Muslim. Ever hear of brainwashing youths?

Anyone who believes Obama should get help for being extremely naieve and unrealistic. This Obama has said so many things and CHANGED his tune that it is a wonder he can keep up with what his latest tale on an issue is. Gun control, Iraq, Wright, etc. Now he's trying to be a conservative Christian. He'll have the National Anthem changed to the Black National Anthem if elected. He lies so much one cannot keep up with all of his lies. Does anyone really know what this man stands for? The media is trying to brainwash us all by interpreting his "positions" to best suit Obama. Voters, be careful what you wish for, you may get it.

Absolutely so Harold:

Now with just a little more help from 'that' God Jews will be wiped from the face of the earth. Jews ain't saw nothing yet. Collecting together in the holy city makes wiping them that much easier. When devils fight, (Allah and Jehovah) there are many not-innocent bystanders that are the victims.

Your assignment is to read Exodus and create a table of characteristics of the being in the burning bush. God or devil is the question. After you've done that what happens to you will be your own fault. Right now you can blame your parents for what you are.

The answer is simple: it’s in our genes.

Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.

Therefore saith the Lord, the Lord of hosts, the mighty One of Israel, Ah, I will ease me of mine adversaries, and avenge me of mine enemies:
And I will turn my hand upon thee, and purely purge away thy dross, and take away all thy tin:
And I will restore thy judges as at the first, and thy counsellers as at the beginning: afterward thou shalt be called, The city of righteousness, the faithful city.
Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.
And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the Lord shall be consumed.
For they shall be ashamed of the oaks which ye have desired, and ye shall be confounded for the gardens that ye have chosen.
For ye shall be as an oak whose leaf fadeth, and as a garden that hath no water.
And the strong shall be as tow, and the maker of it as a spark, and they shall both burn together, and none shall quench them.

And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

“Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life”
“And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth”
“God blessed them”

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

“God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.”
“God blessed them”
“over every living thing that moveth upon the earth”

And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

“whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof”

And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

“Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam”
“which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman”

Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

“the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God”

And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
Unto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

“Adam called his wife's name Eve”
“because she was the mother of all living”
“Unto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins, and clothed them”

And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

“the serpent thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field”

And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

“Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee”

And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

“out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight”
“the tree of life also in the midst of the garden”

And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord.
And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

“Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord.”
“Abel was a keeper of sheep”
“he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof”

“Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord.”
“out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight”
“the tree of life also in the midst of the garden”

This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

“the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him”
“Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and “CALLED THEIR NAME ADAM”
“begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:”

“Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life”
“And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth”
“God blessed them”
“God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.”
“God blessed them”
“Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and “CALLED THEIR NAME ADAM”
“over every living thing that moveth upon the earth”
“whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof”
“Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam”
“which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman”
“Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and “CALLED THEIR NAME ADAM”
“the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God”
“Adam called his wife's name Eve”
“because she was the mother of all living”
“Unto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins, and clothed them”
“the serpent thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field”

“Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee”
“Thorns shall it bring forth to thee”
“the serpent thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field”
“Abel was a keeper of sheep”
“he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof”

But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which ye let remain of them shall be pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell.

“But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you”
“then it shall come to pass”
“that those which ye let remain of them shall be pricks in your eyes”
“thorns in your sides”
“shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell”

But the sons of Belial shall be all of them as thorns thrust away, because they cannot be taken with hands:
But the man that shall touch them must be fenced with iron and the staff of a spear; and they shall be utterly burned with fire in the same place.

“the sons of Belial shall be all of them as thorns thrust away”

“thorns in your sides”
“shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell”
“the sons of Belial shall be all of them as thorns thrust away”
“Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee”
“Thorns shall it bring forth to thee”
“the serpent thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field”
“Abel was a keeper of sheep”
“he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof”

And he took up his parable, and said, Balaam the son of Beor hath said, and the man whose eyes are open hath said:
He hath said, which heard the words of God, and knew the knowledge of the most High, which saw the vision of the Almighty, falling into a trance, but having his eyes open:
I shall see him, but not now: I shall behold him, but not nigh: there shall come a Star out of Jacob, and a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel, and shall smite the corners of Moab, and destroy all the children of Sheth.
And Edom shall be a possession, Seir also shall be a possession for his enemies; and Israel shall do valiantly.
Out of Jacob shall come he that shall have dominion, and shall destroy him that remaineth of the city.
And when he looked on Amalek, he took up his parable, and said, Amalek was the first of the nations; but his latter end shall be that he perish for ever.

“I shall see him, but not now”
“: there shall come a Star out of Jacob”
“and shall smite the corners of Moab”
“And Edom shall be a possession”
“Israel shall do valiantly”

“I shall behold him, but not nigh”
“a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel”
“and destroy all the children of Sheth.”
“Seir also shall be a possession for his enemies”
“Amalek was the first of the nations; but his latter end shall be that he perish for ever.”

Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female,

“Lest ye corrupt yourselves”
“make you a graven image”
“the likeness of male or female”

And David inquired of the Lord, saying, Shall I go up to the Philistines? wilt thou deliver them into mine hand? And the Lord said unto David, Go up: for I will doubtless deliver the Philistines into thine hand.
And David came to Baalperazim, and David smote them there, and said, The Lord hath broken forth upon mine enemies before me, as the breach of waters. Therefore he called the name of that place Baalperazim.
And there they left their images, and David and his men burned them.

“Lord said unto David, Go up: for I will doubtless deliver the Philistines into thine hand”
“mine enemies before me, as the breach of waters”
“there they left their images, and David and his men burned them.”

“Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee”
“thistles shall it bring forth to thee”
“Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life”
“mine enemies before me, as the breach of waters”
“begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:”
“Amalek was the first of the nations; but his latter end shall be that he perish for ever.”
“I shall behold him, but not nigh”
“a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel”
“and destroy all the children of Sheth.”
“Seir also shall be a possession for his enemies”
“there they left their images, and David and his men burned them.”
“Lest ye corrupt yourselves”
“make you a graven image”
“the likeness of male or female”
“God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.”

And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.
The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
The Lord talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire,
(I stood between the Lord and you at that time, to shew you the word of the Lord: for ye were afraid by reason of the fire, and went not up into the mount;) saying,
I am the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
Thou shalt have none other gods before me.
Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:
And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

“Thou shalt have none other gods before me.”
“Thou shalt not make thee any graven image”
“shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments”

And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
Speak unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, and say unto them, Ye shall be holy: for I the Lord your God am holy.
Ye shall fear every man his mother, and his father, and keep my sabbaths: I am the Lord your God.

“Ye shall fear every man his mother, and his father, and keep my Sabbaths”

For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the Lord be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly.
But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire.
For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

“thus shall ye deal with them”
“ye shall destroy their altars”
“break down their images”
“cut down their groves”
“burn their graven images with fire”
“For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God”
“the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself”
“above all people that are upon the face of the earth.”

Know therefore that the Lord thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

“mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations”

NOW DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE SECRET
But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect.
“Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord.”
“out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight”
“the tree of life also in the midst of the garden”

Belial
Oris-the god of the living(underworld)
In the underworld, Osiris sits on a great throne, where he is praised by the souls of the just. All those who pass the tests of the underworld become worthy to enter The Blessed Land, that part of the underworld that is like the land of the living, but without sorrow or pain.

“Thorns shall it bring forth to thee”
“the serpent thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field”
“Abel was a keeper of sheep”
“he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof”

Anubis-the Dog
Just what type of animal Anubis is represented by is unknown as well; definitely canid and most likely a jackal or a wild dog -- or a hybrid of both -- but, as in the case of Seth, with alterations that deliberately smudge the lines of reality.
Anubis is often referred to as the jackal headed god, but Egyptians seem to have identified other dogs with this god, and at times domestic dogs were buried as sacred animals in the Anubieion catacombs at Saqqara. Anubis (Inpew, Yinepu, Anpu) was an ancient Egyptian god of the underworld who guided and protected the spirits of the dead.

“thistles shall it bring forth to thee”
“Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life”
“mine enemies before me, as the breach of waters”
“begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:”
“Amalek was the first of the nations; but his latter end shall be that he perish for ever.”

Seth-the god of war
The ancient Egyptian god of chaos, the embodiment of hostility and even of outright evil. He is also a god of war, deserts, storms, and foreign lands. As the god of deserts he protects the caravans which travel through the desert, but he also causes sandstorms which bring him into conflict with the fertility god Osiris.

“God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.”
“God blessed them”
“Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and “CALLED THEIR NAME ADAM”
“over every living thing that moveth upon the earth”
“whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof”
“Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam”
“which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman”
“Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and “CALLED THEIR NAME ADAM”
“the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God”
“Adam called his wife's name Eve”
“because she was the mother of all living”
“Unto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins, and clothed them”

Hathor-the Cow
She was also known as the Mistress of Life, the Great Wild Cow, the Golden One, the Mistress of Turquoise, Lady of Dendera (her cult centre was located at Dendera), Mistress of Qis, Lady to the Limit (of the Universe), Lady of Punt

Abby 0802 says. " What worries me is when I read or hear people who claim to be Christians speaking and acting in a very un-Christlike manner."

It bothers me too. What's to be done? It's really up to the Christians, isn't it, to shape these people up. But it doesn't seem to be happening. There seems to be a deep embarrassment on both sides. Truly, I think liberal Christians have more in common with atheists/humanists than with conservative bible-believing Christians, but they chafe at being associated with these godless types.

Carolyn J. Miller:

Only the Muslims that were happy to hear about 9-11-2001 are terrorists.

The Muslims that harbor, aid, house, feed, equip, supply, encourage and celebrate the accompolishments of Muslim martyrs are not terrorists. Definitely not terrorists and they can be negotiated with.

Rules for negotiating with mules applies to negotiating with non terrorists Muslims. Slap them up side their heads with a 2 by 4 and get their attention first. Simply shoot the terrorist Muslims.

Terrorist Muslims need to be tattoed on their noses so they can be identified otherwise it will be necessary to shoot all Muslims. That's the only solution to the Muslim 'can't get along with anyone even themselves' problem that will work.

Since terroritst Muslims cannot be expected to cooperate with the tattoing it's necessary to shoot all Muslims. Allah will be very very happy to have all his faithful with him. You do want to make Allah happy? So do infidels. And you say there's no common ground. There's plenty much ground in the graveyard.

Is Barrack Obama a muslim? Is muslim a religion? Are muslims all terrorist?

Of course not! If my father was Catholic am I a Catholic also?

Not necessarily.

John-...Jews in the united states are 2 1/2% of the population..and are 5 times over represented in congress.
----------

Really? Jews are over 10% of the House of Representatives and Congress. I didn't know that. Please give data separating House and Senate.

Also give perceentages of Catholics in the Senate/House and percentages in Congress.

Thanks!

GEORGE: wrote:

"let me tell you the problem..we never see or hear..except bad about Muslims or Arabs"

Osama your savior said about 10 years ago that when the price of oil reached $144 Islam will have won the war. That was yesterday. The war is over. You won. Where do Jews report to be beheaded?

A Chinese army 100 million strong will rain havoc on Islam before the war is over. Prepare to meet Allah. The end of Islam is near.

Farnaz: wrote that Jews in congress were underrepresented..you are completely lying, misleading or have no idea what you are talking about...Jews in the united states are 2 1/2% of the population..and are 5 times over represented in congress.

I don't want my tax dollars going to support institutionalized religions. I don't want them legislating.

For the grant I'm writing, I've spoken with local school, college, hospital administrators who have assured me and stated in writing that they have the infrastructure to support local programs that are currently being offered through "faith-based" based funding.

"Other than Christianity" isn't the issue for me. Faith-based money is currently available to different religious institutions, certainly not all. For me faith-basing, itself, is the problem. That we are moving backward not forward with respect to separation of state and "church" is what's at issue and at stake.

Did I mention the man's spent half his life working for 'faith-based programs?' We may not agree, especially with Bush's version. But trying to make it work and be more Constitutional within the scope of the office he's running for, doesn't mean the man's changed position or caved to politics.

No reason to believe it's not sincere. In fact, he's stated he'll try and make it more open to groups of other faiths than Christianity than Bush's version actually turned out to be in practice.

He's talking about measures to make it *not* a way to cut public services and kick half of it back to Christian churches who could have been helping the poor all along if they would just not use it to proselytize.

Which is the real distinction between Bush's version and what anyone could have been doing before, if helping the poor practically was actually what they were about.

What's he gonna do, take the money *away* from the soup kitchens the people kicked off EAFDC and food stamps are now relying on?

Let's see some oversight, here, and stop using government to turn the screws on the poor so they gotta go begging to preachers.

Just abolishing the programs would hurt people, though, lousy a situation as it is.

I don't agree too well with his plan, but he's not running for Supreme Court Justice, anyway.

There's no reason to think it's inconsistent with the man's actual positions and beliefs, though, to try and reform that system.

Someone *says* it's an about-face and people assume it is, cause it doesn't fit the pigeonholed definitions of 'conservative' or 'liberal.'

Frankly, there's few more worried about 'faith based' encroachment on our government than I, but I kind of expected this, and have strongly support the guy, anyway.

Cause it's better than what we'd get otherwise.

"Ultimately, this faith-based funding can and will go to the Supreme Court. Given the current make-up of the Court, I hold out little hope for redress. That is another reason why I will vote for Obama. One or two of the dinosaurs have to go soon. I don't want McCain, given his views on abortion, given his debts to the right-wing Christians/Catholics nominating the next Supreme Court Justice, do you?"

No, I don't. I'd like to see McCain remain in the Senate in light of his record on bipartisan legislation. That's it - in a nutshell.

Anaonymoose:

"On the other hand, FARNAZ, I take strong exception to Obama's sudden embrace of faith-based initiatives."
--------------

Yes, so do I. His recent statements on this are unnerving, as are his pronouncements on other things, those positions which were never meant to be seen as "written in stone," etc. Let's face it, Anon. The man does not walk on water. Happily for me, I never thought he did, never deluded myself about his being a politician first and foremost. I strongly oppose faith-based initiatives, am writing a grant on Atheist/Agnostic based initiatives for a social welfare program,

I've sent a summary to my senator, Hillary Clinton, and am awaiting her reply. Ultimately, this faith-based funding can and will go to the Supreme Court. Given the current make-up of the Court, I hold out little hope for redress. That is another reason why I will vote for Obama. One or two of the dinosaurs have to go soon. I don't want McCain, given his views on abortion, given his debts to the right-wing Christians/Catholics nominating the next Supreme Court Justice, do you?

I mean, not that I think there was ever anything really *wrong* about the *previous* statutes, except that in practice, having been homeless, you were still in the position of kneeling for any supper, anyway, more money actually going to people actually feeding the poor isn't a bad thing.

Except of course that Bush took more out of public assistance than he gave back to the Christian agencies to partly use proselytizing, anyway.

"More from Christians on this would be a good thing. On the other hand, FARNAZ, I take strong exception to Obama's sudden embrace of faith-based initiatives."

To be frank, the man's spent half his *life* doing 'faith-based intitiatives:' coming out in favor of cleaning *up* the system Bush Unconstitutionally-imposed and making it more Constitutional, unbiased, and effective, isn't the same as 'suddenly embracing them.'

So Howard if I read your last paragraph well, we got two for the price of one then...we still can today !! In Barrack Obama we have a deeply religious family man, well groomed, intelligent and articulate. He is all American in every sense in today's terms, biracial with a strong multiracial appeal. He is a mossaic of sorts, something for everyone: blacks, whites, and blends, poor and affluent, liberal and conservatives, etc. he is no ideologue, just astutely pragmatic, and with an instinct for sound reasoning.

Folks may demonize him for his certain stands on issues (but only if they choose to ignore other appealing attributes he has).

I state that we will never get an ideal President, but we can get a consensus builder, and we will be foolish to look the other way when we one finally comes.

I do not know about you, but although I really admire John McCain, I think the challenges of the Presidency may unravel his intellectual capability. Brevity is not the key to a good presidency. You need more. And John McCain has demonstrated he has much less of the key ingredients.

"As for Obama, I have not seen him wish to legislate his religious views. I have not seen him to be antisemitic, a racist. End of discussion for this Jewish atheist."

Precisely. Interesting for this Christian-raised atheist that most of the screaming about Obama's being a secret Muslim is coming from Christians and Catholics, making much of this fellow's essay pointless.

More from Christians on this would be a good thing. On the other hand, FARNAZ, I take strong exception to Obama's sudden embrace of faith-based initiatives.

"The price of solar panels to the consumer needs to come down to make widespread solar viable."

Note: It actually has, enough to make it more than an environmental gesture: the problem is that a system that pays for itself in a *few* years rather than five or ten is still a big capital investment for most struggling to pay their bills monthly.

Maybe for those who can front the money, rising energy prices will make them seem more attractive, but there's still the notion out there it's 'too expensive.'

PV cells are much cheaper, and not incidentally cleaner to manufacture, than they were when we all got talked out of solar-electric in the Seventies by the fossil fuel and nuclear industries. It just needs *support,* and that will also help bring the price down further.

There are some clever financing plans for big stores to take advantage of this, too.

As for what this has to do with a candidate's religion, well, insisting on every candidate being a strident fanatic doesn't help with the practical solutions. Plenty of Fundamentalist Christians out there still see environmentalism, or rebuilding America's manufacturing base with green tech, as synonymous with 'impiety.'

Speaking from a Jewish perspective, I still don't understand why it is so important what religion a candidate adheres to. The majority of the Senate is Catholic, of the House, Protestant. Jews are badly under-represented in both.

On the Supreme Court, there is one Jew, the only liberal, a Jew. That she is the only liberal concerns me, that the Christians/five Catholics are influenced by their conservative religionism concerns me, not what religions they adhere to.

Jews are wary of Christians/Catholics and Muslims because of the prevalence of anti-Jewish racism, bigotry against us within these relgious factions. This I understand. I personally am wary because some among these factions want to legislate their views on for example stem cell research and abortion.

As for Obama, I have not seen him wish to legislate his religious views. I have not seen him to be antisemitic, a racist. End of discussion for this Jewish atheist.

The election of 1800 is an interesting analogy since both Adams,a Massachusetts Unitarian and Jefferson, a man who certainly held Unitarian views would both be judged "godless" by today's conservative evangelicals. As they exchanged philosophical and religious thoughts in their correspondence beginning after Jefferson's term ended and continuing for many years thereafter, they discovered they had more in common when it came to their opinions in the Trinity and other doctrinal matters of orthodox Christianity than not.

I am a person of faith, a member of a religious order. My faith does shape my worldview, of course and, thereby affects my positions on poverty, hunger, the economy, etc. What worries me is when I read or hear people who claim to be Christians speaking and acting in a very un-Christlike manner. That said, I also believe that it is critical to study the issues, the candidates, etc., to make a reasoned decision regarding for whom I should vote. Does that make me a liberal? According to some of the "righteous right" I would be. However, God gave us intelligence to be used; he did not intend us to be non-thinking people. Hence, I say to all those who march in total lockstep without thinking for oneself: Right is not always right, and Left is not always wrong.

Dear Anikitos -

Thanks for the comments.

Re: solar power. I live in OC, CA, where the sun shines practically every day. One sees a lot of TV dishes on homes here as there's little cloud cover on a daily basis. We are a prime area to be generating solar power off of each and every building, but it isn't happening.

The price of solar panels to the consumer needs to come down to make widespread solar viable. There's an easy solution that wouldn't cost us a dime extra - take the subsidies the government is currently handing out to the oil industry, the ethanol industry and the nuclear industry and apply, oh, 25% of those subsidies towards underwriting the installation of solar panels on homes throughout SoCal. Within a year, home owners would be selling excess electricity they themselves were generating.

BTW - OC is doing tremendous things with water conservation. We have a state-of-the-art plant that converts waste water into potable drinking water. The same technology faces heavy resistance elsewhere because people are afraid they'll be drinking poo. Of course, the same people have no problem, drinking out of a cold, clear mountain creek that a moose shat in a few yards upstream from them. "It's natural!" ;)

Mr. Mark, I agree that solar and wind is the best alternative we have so far. And thanks for the link, eSkeptic looks like a site that would grab my attention for days.

When it comes to solar its is the winner hands down, if you discount the initial expense which is significant right now.

Oil is running out, the best thing we can do now, is not trying to find an alternative Oil supply but create a more efficient methods of transportation. We need to get to 50m/gal level per person at the very least. But, transportation is not the major energy guzzler, believe it or not, its our homes. We have extremely inefficient houses and insulation systems. People are spending upward to 3-4 times to heat/cool houses than to get around in their cars in certain parts of the country. Energy is fungible, just like money. And efficiency is the key.

Any idea why congress has limited the expansion of solar industry in USA for the next 2 years? Why is GOP, and some democrats basically cock blocking solar industry while the rest of the world is heavily investing into it? Something is very wrong. Solar industry is the fraction of the money we spent in Iraq, and it is very ironic that UAE - an oil rich country is heavily investing in solar.

A fraction of north Africa can solve Europe's energy crisis. A fraction of Arizona can do same for USA. Virtually every part of the world has climate that can provide solar energy year round.

Also, take a look at this: http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/1454/70

Now, I do realize that we are still very far from having a very efficient solar panels, but I am convinced that we can as world find a good solution.

BGone writes:

"The obvious solution is not an electric car. It's the hybrid that runs off natural gas."

I am in agreement with BGone on this one.

A few weeks ago in a similar discussion of energy, I pointed out that fully 56% of the oil used in the USA is made into fuels besides gasoline. The fact is that many electric plants in the USA run off of oil. Many also burn coal, which is dirty. Buy an electric car and there's a good chance you're still using oil as your source energy - it's just getting into your car as oil-generated electricity, rather than gasoline.

If we really invested in solar and wind, we could develop non-oil sources to fuel things besides cars. The more non-auto energy generators that we move off oil, the better off we are.

Contrary to received opinion, nuclear is not an option. Not because of the risks, but because there is a limited source of uranium identified and available to use as a fuel source. Nuclear accounts for about 6% of the power generated in the world. At present, there is 40 year supply of uranium available. For nuclear to make any impact on the world's use of oil, you'd need to at least quadruple the number of plants, but doing so would cut those same fuel sources down to a 12 year supply.

(Hint: whenever you hear a politician yammering on about "nuclear being part of the long-term solution," ask him where the fuel will be coming from to power those plants long term. Everyone assumes that there's a limitless source of uranium available to power these plants. There isn't, but the industry doesn't talk about it. The public hears about nuclear waste being a problem for thousands of years and assumes that the reserves of uranium will also last thousands of years, or that it takes thousands of years for the fuel sources to be spent and turn into waste. Ain't so.)

For the nuclear industry to remain viable, they need to develop processes to extract uranium from sea water where the supply is limitless. But that's not a technology that's going to emerge soon or maybe ever.

Hydrogen-powered vehicles are also an absolute dead end. Currently, a hydrogen cell to run a car costs $1MM, and that's for a car that will go 100 miles without refueling. The real problem lies in the production, transport and distribution of hydrogen. Anyone interested can read about the problems with hydrogen as a fuel here:"The Hydrogen Economy
Savior of Humanity or an Economic Black Hole?" http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/08-03-12.html )

BTW BGone - you didn't respond to my last post in our discussion on global warming. Why not?

We have got to start seperating religion and politics. How many presidents throughout our history have tried to force people to change their religious beliefs. I know there are some very touchy subjects like abortion, and sexual orientation, that are tightly intertwined with religion, but trying to pick our government leaders based on those things alone, can be devastating for our country. Our government, that is supposed to be for the people, has turned into a business, and greed sets public policy. It may be best for everyone to live their lives according to their own religious beliefs, and pick a president that will serve us best, based on everything else.

Howard Fineman is not someone I would consider to be honest in his opinions. Considering how biased and how many times I've heard him say exaggerated and sometimes inappropriate things I wonder why he still has a job. I won't even bother to read his articles including this one. Tell me what makes him an expert about anything?

It's simple really... the Bible instructs Christians to follow the example of the Christ. On every occasion, He made a point of avoiding politics. This was an example not only to the Apostles, but rather to all who became his disciples...
What share do Christians have in the politics of this world?

let me tell you the problem..we never see or hear..except bad about Muslims or Arabs..we have been brainwashed by Jewish news corporations reporters and movie producers..look at the last names of all these reports..the other 2 to the right have Jewish last names..i read news on Google and its always by Jewish or Israeli reporters..1.4 billion Arab and Muslims..are we to believe their are no reporters or news corporations..why does all the associated press news now go through Israel first..why do we see endlessly when 1 Israeli dies..but we don't see all the innocent Arabs are killed..can Steven Spielberg or Adam sandler make a movie where the Jew is not the hero or the victim..i went to London 25 years ago were my brother saved his money to go to school there for a year and i meet some of the guys he was going to school with..a few Arabs that were going to the same school...i was invited over to a couple of parties there at one of there condos there parents own.in the 2 weeks i visited England..and i have to say these guys were nothing like i keep seeing and reading in and on the news..they were Iranian..Iraqi..Saudi..guys..very bright..very well educated..very easy going guys..i am not an Arab or Muslim..but i am certainly not a Jew or Israeli..and i do not agree with our one sided policy of blindly supporting Israel..it is against our national security and interest in the united states.

let me tell you the problem..we never see or hear..except bad about Muslims or Arabs..we have been brainwashed by Jewish news corporations reporters and movie producers..look at the last names of all these reports..the other 2 to the right have Jewish last names..i read news on Google and its always by Jewish or Israeli reporters..1.4 billion Arab and Muslims..are we to believe their are no reporters or news corporations..why does all the associated press news now go through Israel first..why do we see endlessly when 1 Israeli dies..but we don't see all the innocent Arabs are killed..can Steven Spielberg or Adam sandler make a movie where the Jew is not the hero or the victim..i went to London 25 years ago were my brother saved his money to go to school there for a year and i meet some of the guys he was going to school with..a few Arabs that were going to the same school...i was invited over to a couple of parties there at one of there condos there parents own.in the 2 weeks i visited England..and i have to say these guys were nothing like i keep seeing and reading in and on the news..they were Iranian..Iraqi..Saudi..guys..very bright..very well educated..very easy going guys..i am not an Arab or Muslim..but i am certainly not a Jew or Israeli..and i do not agree with our one sided policy of blindly supporting Israel..it is against our national security and interest in the united states.

Jim: "160,000 people die every day and your number is coming up soon enough. "Turn or burn sinner"

Jim - is this the best you can do to spread the loving word of your Savior Jesus, Prince of Peace?

Howard Fineman - I hope you're reading and absorbing the responses here. I'd love to hear your commentary about it sometime.

Here’s my take – the fundies and the atheists are terribly worried that one faction or the other is going to take over and ruin America. These two groups have examined their religious beliefs carefully and fear the US leaning way too far in the wrong (opposite) direction.

The liberal Christians are well-meaning citizens who are deeply suspicious of both fundies and atheists. They haven’t given their own beliefs nearly as much thought, but realize they share some of the religious beliefs of the fundies and the rationality of the atheists. They don’t want to spend time thinking or talking about this with people who think differently, thus avoiding facing some uncomfortable ambiguities in their worldview.

Here's the clue that this article is not about religion or faith per se, but rather about promoting a liberal viewpoint. Consider:

"You wouldn’t think religion would matter much in this presidential election. There would seem to be so many more pressing issues: oppressive gasoline and food prices; a president widely regarded as a failure; a foreign policy that has us adrift in the world and mired in an unpopular war. Why would faith be an issue?"

Now if this were an article about faith vis-a-vis issues, then we would expect a list of issues against which to evaluate the significance of faith in comparison. So, the author starts a list of issues, and after stating just one (prices), takes a political jab at Bush, then returns to issues.

Whether one considers Bush a failure or not is not the point. To state issues that one might blame on Bush (but be careful because Congress is, after all, the legislative branch where our laws come from) would be fair. But a blanket statement, spilled out onto this paper as if proven fact, that the president is "widely regarded as a failure" unfortunately defeats this essay at the get-go. Higher gas prices? Fact. President wIdely regarded as failure? Political spin.

At least you might have expected, if the author thought it necessary to condemn someone for issues now at hand, that he would point out that the American public widely regards Congress as a bigger failure (lower ratings than Bush). Is that so? Sure, because I said so, just like the author says so about Bush's failure.

What was the real intent of the article? To assist you in nudging your beliefs about Obama that he is indeed a person of faith so you can rest comfortably about voting for him notwithstanding his Muslim upbringing. See, the author is taking your eye off the issues by telling you it's valid that faith is more important than issues (and all is OK with Obama along those lines), because Obama can't make it on issues.

Try just this one: WIth the security tensions in the world today, i think one issue is how America includes military strength in the overall equation for securing our safety (the primary responsibility of the federal government). Now, isn't that issue bigger than the author's faith arguments? After all, in this election, we have two candidates who have diametrically opposed views on that topic.

Obama might try to spin his depth of faith and religion, but he is unabashed about his goal to retreat ASAP and fill in behind that with "talks" with the Islamic terrorists to find out what they want. Hey, Obama, they've already told us and they are now "executing" their plans.

If the author had done a poll before writing this "article", he would have found that issues are "widely regarded" as more important than the candidate's religious faith. The truth is, this was the author's attempt to blunt the importance of issues and take your eye off those, so you can friendly-up with Obama.

Notwithstanding Pawlenty's Evangelical faith, he doesn't have a prayer.

----- Original Message -----
From: John K
To: aculvahouse@omm.com ; info@straighttalkamerica.com ; Info@FreeStrongAmerica.com ; TimP@mail.governor.state.mn.us
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2008 12:02 PM
Subject: McCain picks former Reagan official to head VP search, http://thehill.com/campaign-2008/mccain-selects-former-reagan-official-to-head-vp-search-2008-05-23.html

If integrity counts, Romney and Pawlenty are both unfit for public office. I don't think the Obama camp would be reluctant to use this information against them. Nothing airs out dirty laundry like a political campaign.

1. America was never brought up as a christian nation. While most of the population were christian, the founding fathers were deists.
2. It should not matter if your president says he is a Muslim, Christian, Jew or a Buddhist. We are all atheists because we do not believe in one god or another.
3. Obama is not a muslim. Just because his father was a Muslim, that does not make him a muslim. Religion is not genetic. Its a social learned construct.
4. Religion is your personal (read personal) issue, there are things much more important to do than waste time on some imaginary or false prophet. Face it, even if you are a devout whatever, you will find a god or prophet that you personally think is false.

Howard Fineman's balanced perspective on the place of faith in this election is welcomed. His views pick up on a refreshing trait noted by many in Obama's manner of addressing the American people - he credits his audience with the capacity to make balanced judgments, to recognize the rights of others not to share their beliefs in their entirety, and to see through simplistic political spin.

One point I would like Mr Fineman to consider, then, is his presentation of these capacities as uniquely American "We are uniquely born and bred to argue" and again "Only in America, and in an American political race, could a Jewish mayor from New York make news by vouching for the Christian faith of a candidate whose long-dead father was a Muslim". Isn't it time that we recognized our shared humanity, that we ended the fanatical promotion of America as better, stronger, faster in all human endeavors?

Were the ancient Greeks and Romans less born to argue? What about today's Mexicans, French, Thai and Brits? While discussion of a candidate's faith is less common in Western Europe, where this is still considered a private matter, what about Latin American countries, or India, or Australia, or countless other countries across the world? And in those European countries where faith is rarely discussed, such as Scandinavia, France and the UK, many would argue this is how they too "nurture freedom and progress".

Mr Fineman has a book to promote, and that book is premised on presenting Americans as a unique species. But meanwhile the world has entered a new era of unprecedented communications, in which these very arguments of historical superiority – found in all countries in the world, if not to the embarrassing degree as in the U.S. – will not be able to slip by unchallenged by a growingly educated populace.

"he was branded an atheist or worse.."

Hey what do you mean "an atheist OR WORSE?"

There is nothing BAD about being an atheist, like there's nothing BAD about being a Jew.

"The answer is simple: it’s in our genes." Really. And which gene is that? I suppose that I as an atheist lack this gene.
"Presidential elections are about character and a candidate’s faith outlook is evidence." And I suppose those of us who have no religious faith have no character.
This article only highlights the absurdity of "faith" in America. It's as if those Americans who have no religious beliefs don't even exist; or lack a certain gene; or have no character to speak of.
We happen to be a nation of laws, not a nation under god. There is no mention of god in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights. It is truly a shame that Reason died with Jefferson. We've become a country obsessed with a candidate's "faith" in the unseen, unproveable, unknown; as if the more fervently someone believes in the supernatural, the more virtuous an individual is. If I strongly believed in the tooth fairy, my friends would think me a childish idiot. But if I strongly believe in an unseen sky god, I'm fit to be president. If it wasn't so pathetically sad, it would be hilarious.

"The answer is simple: it’s in our genes." Really. And which gene is that? I suppose that I as an atheist lack this gene.
"Presidential elections are about character and a candidate’s faith outlook is evidence." And I suppose those of us who have no religious faith have no character.
This article only highlights the absurdity of "faith" in America. It's as if those Americans who have no religious beliefs don't even exist; or lack a certain gene; or have no character to speak of.
We happen to be a nation of laws, not a nation under god. There is no mention of god in the Constitiution or the Bill of Rights. It is truly a shame that Reason died with Jefferson. We've become a country obsessed with a candidate's "faith" in the unseen, unproveable, unknown; as if the more fervently someone believes in the supernatural, the more virtuous an individual is. If I strongly believed in the tooth fairy, my friends would think me a childish idiot. But if I strongly believe in an unseen sky god, I'm fit to be president. If it wasn't so pathetically sad, it would be hilarious.

"The answer is simple: it’s in our genes." Really. And which gene is that? I suppose that I as an atheist lack this gene.
"Presidential elections are about character and a candidate’s faith outlook is evidence." And I suppose those of us who have no religious faith have no character.
This article only highlights the absurdity of "faith" in America. It's as if those Americans who have no religious beliefs don't even exist; or lack a certain gene; or have no character to speak of.
We happen to be a nation of laws, not a nation under god. There is no mention of god in the Constitiution or the Bill of Rights. It is truly a shame that Reason died with Jefferson. We've become a country obsessed with a candidate's "faith" in the unseen, unproveable, unknown; as if the more fervently someone believes in the supernatural, the more virtuous an individual is. If I strongly believed in the tooth fairy, my friends would think me a childish idiot. But if I strongly believe in an unseen sky god, I'm fit to be president. If it wasn't so pathetically sad, it would be hilarious.

airplanes that will run on alge..cars that run on water..mccain will just keep us stuck on oil forever..obama is right we need new technology..honda just test drove a car they are going to mass produce that runs on water..invented by an american in 1998..stan meyers..where have we been on it..jet engines that run on alge have already been tested and work excellent..

It could happen in a number of locations, including Great Britain, Canada, and Australia. Enough of the naval gazing!

Nice to see reasurances about Barack Hussain and his Christian faith. But as you mention, his father was muslim, and that means he was once a muslim since in islam the son is muslim just like the father. Yet he has said he was never a muslim. Is he telling the truth?

I find it disturbing how you tell the whole story about the Jewish guy talking about how we can be assured that Obama is a Christian and completely leave out the main part of the problem. The fact that Americans in this election are HIGHLY intolerant and prejudiced against Muslims. It's incredible how the media has been completely silent on this, and I hope you speak up on this issue. Muslims are NOT all terrorists or fundamentalists, and there are many Muslims among American citizens, and they deserve respect.

What's amazing is teh turn around of Obama toward the center instead of the leftist he really is and will always be.

I don't want a president who will say and do anything to get the job by getting the vote from every faction. I know that all canidates seem to do this but it's never been so blatent as with Obama!

Most 'Evangelicals', or at least those who seek to be faithful to Jesus and the Bible will tell you that calling yourself a Christian while making room for social behavior that is clearly (and I mean CLEARLY) contradictory to scripture AND the Spirit is the same thing as what the serpent did in Eden. It's an invitation to damnation.

No thanks Obama. And I'm not all the crazy about McCain either. I would have much preferred a man whose got the #1 priority right... his relationship with God... to lead our nation.

Oh, and while I'm at it. America is clearly on the path to decadence, which is what brought Rome to ruin. Europe is ahead of us, but we're not far behind folks. Get a clue. Learn from History, will ya!

It is unfortunate that people forget America was founded as a Christian Nation. Our schools don't teach it anymore and our nation has suffered in this sense.

To believe there is no God or creator, and the Bible is a farse, only shows your buying in to the myth.

For a wonderful explanation and eye opening experience visit www.thetruthproject.com

Historical Jesus is real and founded. I'm not sure where anyone gets evidence to suggest otherwise.

If there is no God then what is right and wrong?

If there is no God then how was the world created. And if by chance there was a bang, then how did the matter exist before the bang?

Evolution theories have fallen short, and even Darwin himself said if you could disprove any of what he had in theory then the whole theory would fall. Well, parts of his theory (if not the whole) has fallen.

It's interesting that evangelical Christians are viewed as ignorant or non-thinkers, when the contrary is true. How one can believe there is no God, or believe there is evolution baffles me. When there is so little evidence, it takes so much faith. At least Christianity has a lot of evidence and only takes a little faith.

This is the kind of lame article that Newsweek specializes in. "We" Americans are this or that ...

Any publication that tells "us" what "we" are is declaring that it soocks the big one.

"We are a nation of faith ..." Yawn. Go away. Your are a completely irrelevant pulbication.

"Faith is believing what you know ain't so."
-Mark Twain

Its really that simple.
Religious people who wear belief on their sleeves
and drag it into the spotlight it despises are
insecure, self absorbed, fear driven idiots.

Any one who tries to tell you how it is, never looked God in the eye. Never truly felt the love that is God, love needs no legal representation nor political guardian. Those who truly practice the art of love and God - need not have faith - there is nothing to doubt.

"Faith is believing what you know ain't so."
-Mark Twain

Its really that simple.
Religious people who wear belief on their sleeves
and drag it into the spotlight it despises are
insecure, self absorbed, fear driven idiots.

Any one who tries to tell you how it is, never looked God in the eye. Never truly felt the love that is God, love needs no legal representation nor political guardian. Those who truly practice the art of love and God - need not have faith - there is nothing to doubt.

Anyone who claims there is no God is a liar. Everyone has been given proof of Gods existence through the testimony of creation and through their own conscience. (con = with, science = knowledge). Not only do you have enough proof that God exists, but you know that He is holy and you are wicked. Ever time you have told a lie, stolen, harbored hatred, committed a sexually immoral act, turned your back on the poor to further your own selfish American dream, etc... your conscience has given witness to this fact.

Saying there is no proof of God is like looking at an amazing painting, designed for you, with a signature included, and saying "there was no painter". Truly only the fool says in his heart there is no God.

Do not let the state of the world or the hypocrisy of so called American Christianity keep you from God. Christ Himself said these things would take place in the last days. Then Christ suffered and died for the sins of many, as an atoning sacrifice. You have sinned against God, you are a rebel and a criminal in His sight, yet He sent Christ as a sacrifice to reconcile the world to Him. You must repent (Turn to Him from your selfishness and unbelief with all of your heart) today. Be ye reconciled to God.

160,000 people die every day and your number is coming up soon enough. "Turn or burn sinner"

-Jim

Obama is embarking on a slippery slope. The separation of church and state needs to resume upon the election of a new president. To suggest otherwise is to court disfavor in those among us who already feel disenfranchised in America.

Any discussion of religion must begin with the incontrovertible fact that there is zero plausible evidence for the existence of supernatural beings.

An update (or how we are spending or how we have spent USA taxpayers’ money to eliminate global terror and aggression)

The terror and aggression via a Partial and Recent Body Count

1) Assassination of Benazir Bhutto

2) 9/11, 3000 mostly US citizens, 1000’s injured

3) The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, 4056 US troops and 83,521 – 91,094 Iraqi civilians http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

4) Kenya- In Nairobi, about 212 people were killed and an estimated 4000 injured; in Dar es Salaam, the attack killed at least 11 and wounded 85.[2]

5) Bali-in 2002-killing 202 people, 164 of whom were foreign nationals, and 38 Indonesian citizens. A further 209 people were injured.

6) Bali in 2005- Twenty people were killed, and 129 people were injured by three bombers who killed themselves in the attacks.

7) Spain in 2004- killing 191 people and wounding 2,050.

8) UK in 2005- The bombings killed 52 commuters and the four radical Islamic suicide bombers, injured 700.

Other elements of our War on Terror:

1. Saddam, his sons and major henchmen have been deleted. Saddam's bravado about WMD was one of his major mistakes.

2. Iran is being been contained. (beside containing the Sunni-Shiite civil war in Baghdad, that is the main reason we are in Iraq. And yes, essential oil continues to flow from the region.)

3. Libya has become almost civil. Apparently this new reality from an Islamic country has upset OBL and his “crazies” as they recently threatened Libya. OBL sure is a disgrace to the world especially the Moslem world!!! Or are they??

4. North Korea is still uncivil but is contained. With the opening up of rail traffic between North and South Korea after 50 years and with the assistance of the US Navy in retrieving NK ships and personnel, a fresh sense of civility is afoot. One of the most eminent US cultural institutions, the New York Philharmonic Orchestra, has performed a landmark concert in North Korea.

The concert included music by Western composers and a Korean folk song, and was broadcast live on local television.

Last month, the North Koreans started to destroy their uranium enrichment facilities with CNN verifying said destruction.

5. Northern Ireland is finally at peace.

6. The Jews and Palestinians are being separated by walls. Hopefully the walls will follow the 1948 UN accords and the Annapolis Peace Conference is at least somewhat successful.

7. Bin Laden has been cornered under a rock in Western Pakistan since 9/11.

8. Fanatical Islam has basically been contained to the Middle East but a wall between India and Pakistan would be a plus for world peace. Ditto for a wall between Afghahistan and Pakistan.

9.Timothy McVeigh was executed. Terry Nichols will follow soon.

10. Eric Rudolph is spending three life terms in prison with no parole.

11. Jim Jones, David Koresh, Kaczynski, the "nuns" from Rwanda, and the KKK were all dealt with and either eliminated themselves or are being punished.

12. Islamic Sudan, Darfur and Somalia are still terror hot spots.

13. The terror and torture of Muslims in Bosnia, Kosovo and Kuwait were ended by the proper application of the military forces of the USA and her freedom-loving friends.

14. And of course the bloody terror brought about the Japanese, Nazis and Communists was with great difficulty eliminated by the good guys.

Mr Mark – Regarding the promises of heaven -- I have a lasting memory of an email joke titled “Al Zaqawi was less than impressed with the first of his 72 virgins.” (easily found by googling that sentence)

It shows a skinny terrorist being flattened by an obese virgin.

Bgone:

A few other thoughts: Exxon Mobile, BP, etc. are internationally incorporated. Further, we are at a point at which the media, the products it advertises, the advertising agencies, the oil companies are enmeshed.

Exxon has contributed heavily to the funding of Middle East Studies departments throughout the US. BP has done so under different names (It's names are legion; see Wikepedia). Even so, some Mid-East profs. have ended their silence, especially about BP. Interesting to learn about its crimes (unpunished) right here in the good old US. Then there are its economic crimes. Then there was the Iraq Iran war. Now there is Iraq.

Bubba votes Republican because liberals treat him like a moron, and because he is frightened. Together, his justifiable outrage and fear alienate from his own interests. Continuing to treat him like a moron is moronic. We all pay the price.

Bgone:

I think we can agree that Marxist analysis and 20th century communism have little to do with one another.

As for the "ecologicals," I don't think it single-handedly destroyed industrial America. Cheap imports from Japan and elsewhere began after WWII for obvious reasons. With the collapse of labor unions beginning in the late 1960s, increased demand, foreign manufacturing continued apace. Detroit's continual failures, and Clinton co-opting the Republican agenda, etc., and we have "globalization" as we know it.

We remain the biggest polluters on the planet.

Levi's jeans was interesting to watch in this process. They were among the last holdouts. Unwilling to toss American jobs, participate in the exploitive labor market overseas, they hung on until faced with bankruptcy.

If you haven't seen "Who Killed the Electric CAr," you really should. There was one quite recently, worked beautifully, was killed. You will be surprised to see who made this film (google). It will never happen here. The words "oil companies" ring a bell. Japan would retool overnight. Not the problem.

Farnaz:

I'm up rather late today and I won't be able to answer your q tomorrow so I'll try now. I'm a little slow. By KM I presume you mean Karl Marx.

The communist revolution is a modern example of what I was trying to say other places. A change of religion happens with great economic upheaval. (about to happen/happening here?) Prior to the revolution the church ran Russia. That's why they came down so hard on it. The government amounted to the parish priest with directions from the bishop.

No one can stop anyone from believing anything but the spread of anything can be hampered to the point it stops spreading which is what the commies did to faith (religion). The government before the communist was happy to let the church do the duty, kinda like the Holy Roman Empires beginning with Constantine.

I notice the Chinese haven't stopped that. Got a good laugh when the big China man told W it was unlawful to preach the Gospels in China. Therefore the American "criminals" would need justice that was in process. That happened the third time he asked for the missionaries release from jail, (ever wonder what a Chinese jail is like?). Religion makes the law and therefore is always above it but not in China.

Marx said that religion is the opiate of the people. He got that straight. People are so addicted to religion in the US illegal drugs pale by comparison. I doubt that anyone ever said he would vote the way his dealer told him to vote.

Rome fell in less than 100 years of "Christian nation." We're about 40 years into "Ecological nation." Only idiots believe the Bible garbage and they're generally split politically so it doesn't matter much. I notice the Ecologicals have them and secular types dancing on their strings ecumenical like.

It appears to me that either the Ecologicals are kicked out of the law of the land or the economy is doomed. They're responsible for all the good jobs fleeing to other countries. I could be wrong but can't help but notice things like demands that working conditions in China be dictated by our government, (them). We can't do without foreign goods because the Ecologicals forced the companies that make them to go off shore. It must be frustrating to not be able to sue the Mexicans, Canadians, Chinese, Malaysians etc.

Being Ecologically correct might not be as much fun as they say and for sure it's not making Bubba happy. Whoever makes him happy will be the next president in my opinion -with a promise to get rid of Ecologicals. Those Ecologicals had better register as a religion and get constitutional protection real quick. Of course they won't do that and they will continue to control the government. Will the economy take it is the real question.

Bringing Mr. Fineman up to speed with respect to the flaws and errors of religion:

1. Abraham founder/father of three major religions was either the embellishment of the lives of three different men or a mythical character as was Moses, the "Tablet-Man" who talked to burning bushes and made much magic in Egypt.

Many of the 1.5 million Conservative Jews and many of their rabbis have relegated Abraham to the myth pile along with most if not all the OT.

simpletoremember.com/vitals/ConservativeTorah.htm

2. Jesus was an illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter/simple preacher man who suffered from hallucinations and who has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a mamzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). Analyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists) via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics. earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

For added "pizzazz", Catholic/Christian theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

Specific problems of Catholicism you ask?

Pedophiliac priests, atonement theology and original sin!!!!

3. Luther, Calvin, Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley et al, founders of Christian-based religions, also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

Specific problems of current non-Catholic Christian churches you ask?

Adulterous preachers, "propheteering/ profiteering" evangelicals and atonement theology.

4. Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, who also had embellishing/hallucinating/ plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

This agenda continues as shown by the assassination of Bhutto, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, and the Filipino “koranics”.

And who funds this muck and stench of terror? The warmongering, Islamic, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

Specific problems of contemporary Islam you ask?

The Sunni-Shiite blood feud and the warmongering , womanizing (11 wives), hallucinating founder.

5. Hinduism (from an online Hindu site) - "Hinduism cannot be described as an organized religion. It is not founded by any individual. Hinduism is God centered and therefore one can call Hinduism as founded by God, because the answer to the question ‘Who is behind the eternal principles and who makes them work?’ will have to be ‘Cosmic power, Divine power, God’."
The caste/laborer system and cow worship are problems when saying a fair and rational God founded Hinduism."

Current problems of Hinduism you ask?

The caste system and cow worship/revernce.

6. Buddhism- "Buddhism began in India about 500 years before the birth of Christ. The people living at that time had become disillusioned with certain beliefs of Hinduism including the caste system, which had grown extremely complex. The number of outcasts (those who did not belong to any particular caste) was continuing to grow."
"However, in Buddhism, like so many other religions, fanciful stories arose concerning events in the life of the founder, Siddhartha Gautama (fifth century B.C.):"

Archaeological discoveries have proved, beyond a doubt, his historical character, but apart from the legends we know very little about the circumstances of his life. e.g. Buddha by one legend was supposedly talking when he came out of his mother's womb.

Bottom line: There are many good ways of living but be aware of the hallucinations, embellishments, lies, and myths surrounding the founders and foundations of said rules of life.

E Fav notes:

"There’s a passage in Revelation 21:18-21 about 12 gates made of 12 pearls..."

Funny how religions point out the "evils" of worldly wealth while using those same symbols of materialism to entice people to heaven. Pearly gates and dozens of virgins just waiting to be deflowered by YOU, the humble believer. On earth, it's the promise of a land flowing with milk and honey.

Makes you think that any number of rooms in god's mansion are fully functioning crack houses.

Livermire:

Christian sensibilities offended? Or do they have sensibilities? Bile in your livermire?

So, Fineman, doing your part for the jewish mayor of New York!

So many of us had thought you to be above that
stuff. To be a real reporter, not advocate for first jewish this or that--(vice president, probably in this case).

Must be on you very hard, the handlers. But in
follwing their demands, you make yourself far less a respected reporter. And you were valuable.

You think people not getting sick of this stuff?

So, Fineman, doing your part for the jewish mayor of New York!

So many of us had thought you to be above that
stuff. To be a real reporter, not advocate for first jewish this or that--(vice president, probably in this case).

Must be on you very hard, the handlers. But in
follwing their demands, you make yourself far less a respected reporter. And you were valuable.

Mr Mark – I think the next study on religion should be perceptions of heaven. My guess is that it would be very vague: – seeing your loved ones, being at eternal peace, something about clouds and harps and St Peter at the Pearly gates. By the way – I did a little googling and can’t find anything conclusive in the bible about St. Peter being at the Pearly gates. There’s a passage in Revelation 21:18-21 about 12 gates made of 12 pearls but no mention of St Peter standing by at the entrance to heaven. It seems more like a pop culture thing and I don’t remember ever hearing about it in church.

Annie, you say: “…I and tens of millions of other Americans actually do not want to know about a candidate's faith…” I assume you’re a non-believer, but I know a lot of liberal Christians who feel the same way -- Just keep faith out of it. We live in a secular democracy that allows freedom of religion. Period.

A tolerant people?

On the high end Sixty-two percent of respondents in the Newsweek poll said they would not vote for an atheist. On the low end a similar Gallup poll put the numer at 53% of respondents saying that they would not vote for a qualified candidate if they were atheist.

In all the studies you find atleast half of Americans are bigots. They will not vote for a person who has conducted their life morally, is qualified and willing to run the country simplly because they don't share a unsubstantiated belief.

This is anything but tolerant and anything but surprising. If we look to the North to see a country who could teach a lesson or two about tolerance.

Farnaz:

I suspect we have imported oil so we can horde what we have. I only suspect. McCain made some statement like 300 million dollars for a battery that will go 200 miles between charges. I've had that battery for a long time. I thought maybe they were serious so I called a patent attorney, three times, three different attorneys. Still waiting for my call to be returned. Think it ever will?

I don't believe it's serious. If I were to replace the gasoline powered vehicle with anything it would be with natural gas. I know there's a 1,000 year supply -location known and it's being produced by plants and animals at a rate greater than it's being used, (the real green house gas, CO2 X 25). Gasoline should never have been used in the first place. But now there's over 200 million vehicles that will only run on it.

The obvious solution is not an electric car. It's the hybrid that runs off natural gas. That way the NASCAR bunch can have all the gasoline they want and idiots can race around the streets killing themselves with electric motors powered by on board natural gas electric generators.

There is no solution that can be implemented within a short time frame except drill. I would change my mind in a flash if I could convert my hybrid engine to run on natural gas.

BTW, the most dangerous place on earth is Santa Barbara California where there is a gas pocket containing as much as a trillion cf. An earth quake that's highly likely could release that gas into the atmosphere and turn the area into a toasted marsh mellow. Not to worry about the folks there for they'll all be dead from asphyxiation before the gas bomb goes off. They'll get free cremations from nature's God.

Sorry. I can't stop laughing at the stupid people. Somebody call FEMA there's a natural gas fire bomb over California. Ecologists should be happy since it's natural but who upset the delicate ecological balance to set it off? What was it the philosopher said, "the fruits of ignorance are death." The Santa Barbara story is good material for a Si Fi flick. I'll see if I can find the one on killing electric cars. I've had a gasoline powered car or two I'd like to have killed myself. Maybe I can get some pointers.

Bgone:

I didn't mean convert in a literal sense. Religion is a smokescreen. Old KM had it right, the opiate of the people. Iraq went from being one of the world's largest oil producers to being virtually incapacitated courtesy of Reborn and Born. Saudi Arabia has reduced production as has Iran.

The first electric car (not a hybrid) was produced in the 1950s.

It gets curiouser and curiouser. If you haven't seen "Who Killed the Electric Car?" you might want to rent it.

Farnaz

This is the kind of piece that makes people like me feel invisible. When you claim that "we" want to know about a candidate's faith, are prayerful, equate character with faith, etc., you are wrong wrong wrong. Because I and tens of millions of other Americans actually do not want to know about a candidate's faith nor do we think it enlightens us about their character nor are we prayerful nor do we "have God" or have faith somehow in our genes. And in fact, we DO separate faith from politics, vigorously.
In the future, please replace "we" with "people like me." That would be more accurate and more honest.

Farnaz:

I'm focused on laughing myself to death. I would just love to convert people but to what? I'm not trying to convert anyone. When I hear what they say and see what they write I can't help but point out how ridiculous their "faiths" are.

I just discovered the ecologists. Some guy at NBC pointed out that it's a religion so I decided to give it the test. Sure enough. And it has both the country and Obama in a strangle hold.

Please don't confuse me with someone who cares. I just bought my first tank of gas since early May. I'll buy gas again in September,, if there's any to buy.

Ever hear of being prepared? I drive a hybrid not because I want to save rats and flies from extinction but because I don't like to pump gas. I can go 700 miles on a tank. Now if you want a laugh there's Bubba with an old pickup that gets 8mpg. And he's a red neck Republican that drives 27 miles one way to work. That poor boy don't have anybody to vote for but he's got something to vote about this time and it's not abortion.

I never miss the opportunity to tell Bubba to keep the faith. And this blog seems to think gay marriage is the big issue this election. I tell Bubba, when it hurts too much to cry then laugh at it. Bubba's don't think this is funny. But who ever will he vote for? Well, he can take the bus to church and let his preacher tell him,, again. Obama is promising him an electric truck so I understand and McCain is saying drill drill drill. You be the judge about how Bubba will vote. I see a vote for McCain myself in spite of sacred scriptures.

I wrote: "A question that never seems to be asked about the USA is this: why are so many citizens of the greatest democracy on Earth yearning to spend their eternity in a dictatorship?"

E Fav responded:
"Good question and I'll give it some thought. First reaction -- they don't really want to live in a dictatorship and don't think of heaven that way. They think of it as a better democracy than the one they're currently living in. A democracy in which their party in always in power and they get all the perks."

Perhaps...but even under that scenario, the most-ardent among, say, the Republican believers, would do well to wonder whether the head of their Heavenly Party (ie: god) was Ronald Reagan or gw bush. If god is like bush, then their "better democracy" is going to devolve into a dictatorship pretty quickly.

Mr Mark: "A question that never seems to be asked about the USA is this: why are so many citizens of the greatest democracy on Earth yearning to spend their eternity in a dictatorship?"

Good question and I'll give it some thought. First reaction -- they don't really want to live in a dictatorship and don't think of heaven that way. They think of it as a better democracy than the one they're currently living in. A democracy in which their party in always in power and they get all the perks.

That's if they've thought of it much at all. I doubt many people have.

HF Writes:

"Whatever Thomas Jefferson’s beliefs, they weren’t traditional enough to satisfy his Federalist critics. In the tumultuous election of 1800, he was branded an atheist or worse, and one Federalist newspaper asked the question: Did its readers want “GOD—AND A RELIGIOUS PRESIDENT; OR JEFFERSON—AND NO GOD!!”

Sadly, the outcome in TODAY'S USA is easy to imagine: Jefferson wouldn't even be nominated by either Party...and we'd elect another religious president a la gw bush.

Yes, our forefathers had the sense to "give us" Jefferson. Shamefully, we ourselves would be loathe to follow suit.

BTW - at least HF holds that there is a worse brand to have put upon one these days than "atheist." Considering what's happened over the past 7 years, might I be as bold as to suggest that "Republican" now qualifies as a much worse moniker for a candidate than atheist?

Perhaps Republican candidates would do better this year if they ditched the "R" next to their names and substituted a big, red "A" in its place (and I'm not talking about that "A" standing for "adulterer"...though, when one considers the source...?).

Mr. Fineman writes that "We are a tolerant people, as the latest Pew Survey reminds us ...." I would amend that: we are tolerant of people with unsupported beliefs, just as long as they believe in something. Yet the group that should be most tolerated, namely, rationalists or freethinkers, is hardly tolerated at all. Even a Mormon, whose beliefs, as Sam Harris has noted, are necessarily crazier than mainstream Christianity, has a chance of being elected president. What chance would an admitted atheist have, even one who has strong "family values" (unlike John McCain) and is highly qualified for the job?

Obama's success is an encouraging phenomenon in American society, but I would be much more encouraged if he did not feel the need to pander to fundamentalists. Obama probably has more in common with atheists than fundamentalist Christians, but you'd never know it given the media coverage and even his rhetoric.

Don't be so smug. This American exceptionalism is at the root of many of the world's problems today. Look at India. They have two states ruled by popularly elected communists. The Hindu majority country is ruled by a Sikh from a party headed by a Christian, that too from a different country. Even Finemen will take this in his stride without claiming "only in India" if he was an Indian.

Enough with religion, already!!!!

Bgone:

At hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul they do a fair interpretation of this Biblical sequence explaining why things are all gone to hell in terms a Christian or Jew can surely understand.
----------------
"Hell" is a Christian/Catholic, not Jewish construct. Most J people, whether atheist (moi) or not, focus on terra firma. None of this matters a whit, since J people, people of Muslim descent, etc., are minute portions of the population.

Cultural/observant Christians/Catholics will elect the next president, just as they elected (or didn't) the wretch currently in office. YOu'd do best to focus your efforts on "converting" said Christians.

Dear Mr Fineman -

A question that never seems to be asked about the USA is this: why are so many citizens of the greatest democracy on Earth yearning to spend their eternity in a dictatorship?

Religions define heaven as a "kingdom." Kingdoms are by their very nature dictatorial, and those described by the world's major religions are uber-dictatorial.

The last I looked, there are no votes in heaven. Neither is there rule by consensus. God rules, souls obey or it's off to hell with 'em (see: Lucifer, cast out).

Worse, the Biblical god is a jealous and capricious god who has broken myriad promises that he has made. Why any believer would imagine that god's promise of an eternal, blissful afterlife is a promise he intends to keep flies in the face of the evidence god himself presented in the Bible.

One would think that Americans who have the hard-won privilege of living in a democracy, a democracy where they have some say in how their lives will be lived, would need to be dragged kicking and screaming into god's eternal dictatorship. But, no. The large percentage of us seem to be champing at the bit to hie themselves off to an eternal serfdom that would make the Middle Ages look like a party.

One might also wonder how much these kingdom-obsessed Americans actually respect the democratic republic they're living in this very moment. Personally, I'm a little suspect about anyone who thinks that the kingdom model of government beats the democratic model. After all, the horrors inflicted by any Earthly king pale in comparison to the eternal horrors a jealous and capricious god could visit upon one.

Have a great 4th!

Mr Mark

takes my thoughts and writes them much more eloquently than I possibly could.

I'd add: I don't think it's a problem or a 'curse' that we are hard-wired to argue. The founding fathers felt that, in order for this whole governmental experiment to work, there would need to be dialogue, debate, rational and informed thought.

I'd echo: but what is interesting, and maybe not so much a 'virtue,' is our insistence that the arguments be about "faith" or "belief" or "religion."

Is it a testament that we are, alas, resolved to discuss "faith" until the end of times, or is it possible that we can move past this, with increasing societal expectations and increasing IQ (Michael Shermer discusses that our IQ points raise by about 3 points collectively every 10 years) much like our European bretheren, who are amazed at the "faith" dialogue that still surfaces when we're ready to sell something.

"more than two thirds of us think that their own religion is not the only route to eternal salvation." That means 100 million Americans believe that 200 million Americans are going to hell. Other surveys show 200 million Americans believe we are already in hell because they voted the same way the 100 million said God demanded they vote else they would surely go to hell. Maybe 2/3 of the country going to hell is enough to bring us there right away?

It's all fixed up. McCain has spoken to God. That's not just any God but the God one nation is under, Trinity God, father, son and holy spirit God. Mac went to the mountain where God lives and spoke to, Billy God the father, Franklin God the son and the invisible holy spirit God.

I had no idea where the Grahams live until I realized the Bible tells me:

Exodus 3:1 [Moses and the burning bush]
Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, even to Mt Horeb[where God lives].

At hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul they do a fair interpretation of this Biblical sequence explaining why things are all gone to hell in terms a Christian or Jew can surely understand.

You don't suppose the Bible is the word of Devil do you? How come the 'killer on the run' married with child eking out a living tending someone else's sheep, (he didn't own anything not even sheep) had such good luck, got picked by God to lead His chosen people? Don't you think that's an interesting question? Where did Moses lead the Israelites? Heaven or hell? Where are 2/3 of Americans going according to Trinity God, Billy, Franklin and not forgetting invisible spirit God?

Speaking as a Jew, I could not care less whether Obama was a Muslim, Christian, Wiccan, etc. Would prefer agnostic/atheist president, or at least believer unaffiliated with any institutionalized religion. The latter goes to separation, and I mean separation, of state from church.

Jefferson was a deist.

We are not under God. Ideally, we should be under the Constitution and under a three-branch government free from lobbyists, special interest groups, corruption, etc.

Mr Mark writes: "The reason: because Americans are overly obsessed with religion."

Mr Fineman, although there are elements described in your essay that are worthy of our pride, this bizarre obsession with religion that Mr Mark points out isn't one of them. It's something to be embarrassed about.

Howard - Ditto Walter on "atheist at worst" - a seemingly prejudiced stain on an otherwise fine essay.

Maybe it was thoughtless. If so, I bet you won't do it again.

Maybe you were kidding. If so, I'm afraid it's a joke most people don't get yet.

Howard Fineman writes:

"Only in America, and in an American political race, could a Jewish mayor from New York make news by vouching for the Christian faith of a candidate whose long-dead father was a Muslim."

You're right, but the operational phrase in your statement is "only in America...could a [person] make news" under your scenario. The reason: because Americans are overly obsessed with religion.

The same scenario plays itself out in other countries all the time (see: Europe, recent history), but other countries don't obsess about the fairy tales as do we, ergo, they don't see the wisdom or necessity of viewing EVERYTHING through the prism of the religion-on-the-ground in their nations.

Mr Fineman:

I get censored a lot so I must limit how much I say in any post. News Week and the Post both just hate to hear the Bible is a proved hoax to say nothing of how hard all these holy samolies herebouts take that news.

Now about religion in politics. As you know, religion is the great enemy of democracy. It attempts to usurp the power of the people and substitute in it's place the power of God's representatives. While we were busy watching the evangelicals in their childish attempts to take over the government we've been blind sided by another really sneaky, stealthy religion, Ecologism.

Where the evangelicals failed they have succeeded in spades no less. Ecologist now have the US government in a hammer lock and show no signs of mercy. Case in point - just last week a project aimed at saving the earth from pending disaster was stopped dead in it's tracks by the ecologicals. A solar power plant that's absolutely green and carbon free has been put on hold while we take the rest of our lives to study the effects of solar panels on the delicate ecological balance of nature's God, or God knows what.

We know that only religions own real estate. The rest of us poor dumb bastards only rent ours from the government. The rents real property taxes called. Ecologism is a religion because it owns tax exempt real estate known as public lands. And, as I'm sure you know, religions are never satisfied controlling land owned forever demanding that land belonging to others be used only as they see fit,, not used at all in many if not most cases.

I can write a book on this. I hope you have gotten the idea at least. I'll trouble you as I have already troubled many with those troubling facts. Turns out that this earth was a lot warmer 600 years ago than it is today pouring tubs of ice water all over global warming, green house effects and other dogmas of Ecologism.

Religions always attempts to take over governments, where they find them. The ecologicals have turned the trick here in the USA, done what the evangelicals only dream of doing. Their commandments like those of evangelicals only add up to one very powerful commandment, 1 - Thou shalt do as we say.

The candidate that notices that and comes with the facts will win the election. The facts are against all religions. Ecologicals have their fiction written into the law of the land already. I'm afraid it's a lot easier to keep the evangelicals out than it will be to get the ecologicals back out.

Telling Bubba to take the bus to church and pray that Santa Claus will bring him an electric pickup truck is the losing argument.

BTW, you're one of my favorite people on TV with the most objective views. I hate guesswork and love objectivity.

Dear Mr. Fineman,
I listen to you regularly on the Tony Kornheiser Show and on MSNBC, and I usually find your comments to be insightful and witty. Being a non-believer, I have a problem with your second to last sentence where you say Jefferson was "branded as an atheist or worse." I know you were just trying to demonstrate the mentality of the slanderers, but your phrasing really places atheism in a negative light. Imagine replacing the word "atheist" with a person from another group of people--I doubt that you would never have phrased it in this way if you were trying to say something like "he was branded as a gay or worse."

Mr Fineman:

Have you heard the news? The Bible is a proved hoax. The actual original writings used to concoct the Bible have been uncovered. And they're on the Internet at hoax-buster.org. I expect you already know this but just in case. You don't want to be the last to know, could make you look silly.

In recent elections abortion has played a major role. It's easy to say, "they voted the abortion issue and got an abortion for a government as their prize." In reality Bush hasn't done all that bad a job but, as you notice it seems that he has done a bad job. Is he or circumstances to blame?

Abortion is now augmented with gay marriage. Odd how evangelicals don't want gay folk to get married and stop living in sin. Don't you think? Sex between married couples is holy isn't it? Neither candidate is taking the bait this time. Evangelicals are yesterday's bad news. They get all their facts from a hoax.