It's amazing to read posts by folks who call themselves Christians as they bash Pagans. It's clear, from the hate being spewed, that these folks have no idea what the pagans are about. The ignorance being displayed is profound.

If you examine history you will find the following:

Pagans: love nature, stand for equal rights, defend the underdog, promote self determination, freedom, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, kindness, generosity.

Christians (not all but many): conquer and destroy nature, promote bigotry, promote misogyny, abhor critical thinking, promote conformism, greed, downright meanness.

The pro-apocalyptic thinking displayed by some of the Christians is sad...people who actually WANT the end of the world and want others to suffer. I don't think Jesus taught that. He taught compassion, charity, kindness, love.

Jerry Falwell certainly was one of those Christians who preached horror, bigotry, destruction. He was about as far from the teachings of Jesus as Hitler, George Bush, and other hateful figures.

Forgiveness?
Merely your fully, finally and lovingly denying the desire to repay wrong for wrong, and seeing in the person or persons who have wronged you complete humanity such as you accord yourself.

How's that for starters?

There is no forgiveness for him. Jerry was a right-wing, gay bashing, misogynistic bastard who could never see the good in others unless they were donating to his 'school'. He was a pig....and i hope that jesus and god cast him out when he showed up begging at the door.

Its not surprising to find a spouse of almost fifty years who presumably shared his values allocute in the man's defense.

The truth is, however, he exhibited and preached a moralistic sanctimony which attacked the most fundamental institutions of our country, when ever they or their principals didn't toe the line of his Demonizing evangelical hatreds; the judiciary when it ruled in favor of minorities pursuant to the Constitution and implicitly the Constitution itself, which was designed to protect us by making it less possible for extremists of any persuasion to combine to divest us of our fundamental rights.

His assertion on the 700 Club that 9-11 was God's punishment for our Constitution which mandates equal protection for all including the ACLU, the Supreme Court and gays and lesbians was the height of subversive constitutional irrationality.

Looks like they buried this thread again.

I don't know if that story is true. I tried to research its accuracy one time but I couldn't find anything. I agree that it isn't fair. That kid should have paid the penalty.

This stuff is hard.

I believe in self defense too. If someone came into my house to cause me or a family member harm, you better believe I wouldn't say, go ahead rob us, beat us silly, and sell us into slavery.

I think self defense is self justice. I still think forgiveness and justice can go hand in hand. It isn't easy and it isn't always fair but it beats the alternatives the never ending cycle of - "revenge, aggression and retaliation".

You are indeed brave for writing about your husband in this venue. I don't share many of your husband's politics, but I do share your faith in Jesus. I know the reality of many Christians with conservative social and political positions devoting their lives to serving the poor, and leaving this world with a family intact, kids well-raised, and with those who knew them best able to say 'well-done'. Your husband was one of those men. His faith allowed him to endure the opposition that often became so personal and mean-spirited that only a man of strong faith could address it with a smile and the humor that was always Jerry Falwell. He knew where he stood, and that's America. His greatest legacy is that he pastored his church well, lived his life clearly in accordance with his beliefs, and raised his family to follow God. bravo.

Att: @ 10:23AM.Thrs.

Response From bottom of that Page;

And Please see "SEMIRAMIS" (Sodom & Gommorah Precursor).;

A/K/A/ the Mother/Father of Peganism blended with Witchery (Wiccan) and blended with "SAME-SEX" blaspemous & Abominating Lost encounters Wow!

Amazing. Today The News popped-up and this linko is displayed.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/africa/06/12/kenya.witches/index.html?eref=rss_topst

Briefly; It Describes, in KENYA (Prez Wanna-be Hussain Borack Obama Father's Turf. By The Way, HAPPY FATHERS DAY)) , the Mass killings of Witches by Witch/Wiccan Hunters. So;

Mr. FALWELL was Right Again! AND

Besides that Blogger @ 10:23Am, Showing You & Us that that "SEMiRAMiS" Evilizing "QEEN"-Witch of the WiCCANS/WiTCHES Bit..'s etc.., that ,

an included link will show the world (educate) to see , how "The Father of WiTCHERY/WiCCAN in AMERICA, (via Another Imported Abomonation from Celtics/Englich.., , as if Religion) of the "KiNG" Of The WiCHES/WiCCANS!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Gardner

---

So Alexander Hislop & Jerry Falwell {Pbu Their Souls et al} are Vindicated Again!

HALLALUYA!

Praise The Holy-No-MAN, Lord, WAWH, Source-One, Eponymous-ECLAT + "i" = LiFE/PHOTONS Awareness NEW-SONG, cometh (Prophetically) Out Of then Old-Song via the Earth 5-Five Major Religions! {Monotheo's? & Polytheo's & No-Theo's!}.

I can only say that it warms my heart and mind to see how many people saw right through the hypocrisy of Jerry Falwell. Of course, we are already seeing Americans as a whole putting this distorted version of Christianity behind them, as the so-called Christian right movement and its political agents implode right in front of our eyes.

It's not so much that the number of adherents of this misbegotten "faith" has changed. It's mostly that the majority of Americans who never signed on to begin with got sick and tired of these phony baloney "Christians" and decided to send them packing. Simply decided it was time to put the holy rollers in the dustbin of history.

Of course, the fact that the President most closely associated with these ignoramuses turned out to be--surprise!--God's pure fool helped.

Ghostbuster:

I don't yet know if forgiveness is merely squelching the natural desire for revenge. Is it even natural to want revenge? Or is it just natural for us humans? If a fox kills a rabbit, does the rabbit's spouse hate the fox? Does it try to get revenge? Will it sit out it's remaining days hidden underground posting messages on chat boards about how terrible foxes are?

----------Thanks for the visual of the bunny in an underground internet cafe, busily typing away while sipping a carrot latte.
Perhaps it's natural for our species because our emotional attachments form differently than othere species. I can only tell you that if you hurt my child, my immediate gut reaction is going to be to remove your gonads via your nostrils and feed them to you.
While it's true that animals don't seek revenge, I do know that they grieve. Whether domesticated species grieve to a greater extent than wild one, I don't know.-------------

Can forgiveness only be granted if there is justice? What if justice is denied? Where was MLK's justice? A monument? A holiday? A building named after him? He was already gone. He turned the other cheek and look what it got him. Make no mistake, MLK forgave but he sought and persued justice.

--------That's one of the questions that I continue to wrestle with. For me, there can be no possibility of forgiveness without justice. Otherwise, it's simply letting people get away with bad behavior.-----------

As forthe story about the judge,I assume that it's an allegory of the Christ story. If it was an actual event, I am of the opinion that the judge did her son no favor by paying the fine herself.
Some time back, my daughter and her friends were completing one of those personality quizzes that get passsed from MySpace to MySpace. One of the questions was "Who would your one phone call be if you got arrested?" Several of my daughter's friends answered that they would call me. My daughter told them "If you're going to call my mom, make sure you're not guilty first." When they asked her why, she told them what I had told her once she was old enough to socialize independently of me, "If you get busted because you were just in the wrong place at the wrong time, and you weren't actually doing anything wrong, I'll bail you out, I'll get you a lawyer, I'll do everything humanly possible to help you. If you get busted because you got caught doing something you weren't supposed to be doing, I suggest you make friends with your cellmates because you're going to be spending lots of time together." But maybe that's just me.------------

"Man must evolve for all human conflict a method which rejects revenge, aggression and retaliation. The foundation of such a method is love."

---------I agree. But what some people (not necessarily you) call retaliation, I call self-defense. If you hit me, I WILL hit back. If you steal from me, I will NOT offer you the items you may have overlooked during your theft. And I do believe that people should be made to take personal responsibility for their bad behavior. I also believe that there is a place for mercy under the right circumstances, but not as an automatic repsonse.-------------

I did not care that much for Falwell but the facts are that he did many good things and perhaps if I knew him I would have a very different viewpoint. Gerry Falwell:

1.Loving husband and successful family man. Wife loves him so much that she writes a book about him.

2.Founder of Thomas Road Baptist Church a mega church with 22,000 members. Members do a tremendous amount of community work and millions are budgeted each year to help those in need. In addition, no doubt Gerry Falwell's work has saved many souls and brought many to Christ. For this they will be eternally blessed.

3.Founder of Liberty University which provides an education for 24,000 students.

4. During an appearance on MSNBC, Falwell said he was not troubled by reports that Supreme Court nominee John G. Roberts had done volunteer legal work for gay rights activists on the case of Romer v. Evans. Falwell told MSNBC's Tucker Carlson that if he were a lawyer, he too would argue for civil rights for gays. "I may not agree with the lifestyle, but that has nothing to do with the civil rights of that part of our constituency," Falwell said. When Carlson countered that conservatives "are always arguing against 'special rights' for gays," Falwell said that equal access to housing, civil marriage, and employment are basic rights, not special rights. "Civil rights for all Americans, black, white, red, yellow, the rich, poor, young, old, gay, straight, et cetera, is not a liberal or conservative value. It's an American value that I would think that we pretty much all agree on."

So the facts are that Falwell has made a contribution for good that far exceeds what most of us could ever imagine and while he opposed gay rights he recognized the opposite position. Of course, he made some mistakes and he was not perfect. To harshly judge a man like Falwell based on a media generated image vs. knowing the man or based on how you personally feel about his moral and religious philosophy is a risky thing to do. You could be wrong and especially about his moral or religious teachings. I am sure that there are 24,000 students at his university and 22,000 people who go to his church who know a lot more about this man than we do and they must see in him what his wife saw or they would not support his church or his school. Thank God for men like Gerry Falwell with all his flaws and imperfections he still did a vast amount of good work. I would think that his wife knew him best and we should listen to what she has to say.

The fact remains that your late husband was a total bigot who advocated hatred and oppression of the weak and disavatnage who used religion and twisted the truthful word of God for control of people and personal gain and wealth.

May you join him in hell soon to realize whether your white supremacist, anti Islam, Anti catholic, anti non white in general legacy was the Godly way or not.

Macel-

I'm sure Jerry's departure is felt everyday by those who were close to him- because I met him and he certainly had a "larger than life" presence and could fill the room and draw people around him. What the people posting here don't know is: he was fun to be with and a natural communicator. Even his most ardent religious and political enemies loved him.

" And, I know that I'll hear from them for this. But, throwing God out successfully with the help of the federal court system, throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools. The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say, "You helped this happen." (Jerry Falwell)

You would hear the same quote (probably from me) if America starts burning again in the future. 911 would seem like a walk in the park then. Not only 2 big buildings will burn but whole cities.

SOME PEOPLE DON'T LEARN FAST, DO THEY?

Madame,
Your husband was the worst kind of hate-spewing, self-serving praise jesus huckster. Pretending to hear the word of a mythical being and than peddling his crap to impressionable cult worshipers for their donations is indefensible. Of all the holier-than-thou's, he was about the worst.

Oh, well. Now he's in "heaven" with "jesus". What crap.

billm

Lep,

Interesting thoughts. Jean Valjean, wow. I think about the same things sometimes. I don't like to, but I do anyways.

"How exactly do YOU define this slippery word "forgiveness?" Is it merely squelching one's natural desire for revenge? Is it not seeking justice against one who wronged you?"

I was actually chatting with a friend on a related topic while I read your response earlier this afternoon. He was telling me about a teen he was helping get through some major pain that was intentially caused by a family member, who is now thankfully in prison. I noted that she probably wasn't ready to forgive the perpetrator. He agreed.

I don't yet know if forgiveness is merely squelching the natural desire for revenge. Is it even natural to want revenge? Or is it just natural for us humans? If a fox kills a rabbit, does the rabbit's spouse hate the fox? Does it try to get revenge? Will it sit out it's remaining days hidden underground posting messages on chat boards about how terrible foxes are?

Can forgiveness only be granted if there is justice? What if justice is denied? Where was MLK's justice? A monument? A holiday? A building named after him? He was already gone. He turned the other cheek and look what it got him. Make no mistake, MLK forgave but he sought and persued justice.

I know forum board interaction can be disjointed. Don't know if you follow my reasoning. Anyways, this story kind of sums up what I believe. I dug it up off the internet...

There’s a story about a judge whose own son was brought before her for a crime he had committed. The judge felt a deep grief that her son would violate the laws upon which she based her entire life. Tears welled in her eyes and she listened painfully as the evidence against her son was presented. The courtroom sat in silence wondering how the judge would rule. Would she just give him a reprimand in an act of mercy? Would she give him the minimum penalty for the offense? Much to their surprise, she handed down the maximum fine, upholding the law to its fullest degree. The son was in shock, for he knew that he couldn’t pay the fine and was anguished at the thought of imprisonment. He looked up at her in disbelief. But then something happened that nobody expected. She stepped down from the bench, took off her judge’s robe, told her son how much she loved him and then paid, out of her own pocket, the fine she had just handed down. Not everyone understood what she had done. As a judge, she showed her commitment to honor the law, but she then stepped down from that seat of honor and to show her love for her child. Her son never understood the depth of his mother's commitment to the law until that moment, and, until that moment, he never knew the depth of his mother's love for him. He felt deep sorrow for the pain he had caused her and for those he had hurt by his act of crime. With his head bowed, and his tears flowing freely, he asked for her forgiveness, which she willingly gave to him.

"Man must evolve for all human conflict a method which rejects revenge, aggression and retaliation. The foundation of such a method is love."

Now you know where I'm coming from. Thanks for asking.

I don't have anything else to say.

GB

Asim, San Antonio writes:

"Jerry Falwaell was nothing but a false prophet and his "majority" was any thing but moral."

Actually, Jerry Falwell's beliefs, statements, actions and warped sense of reality are the NATURAL RESULT when religious beliefs are carried to an extreme. Any religious beliefs.

Jerry Falwaell was nothing but a false prophet and his "majority" was any thing but moral.

May he rot in hell for the evil and the haterd he spouted all along and the human beings he hurt.

Ghostbuster:

Ah - *light bulb comes on*
I obviously have not had near enough caffeine today.
I misunderstood you. I thought that you were saying that YOU saw forgiveness as submission and that people who considered submission a weakness were wrong.

I don't see forgiveness as submission. But then again, I know what submission is, and I don't do submission. I still don't have a clear working definition of forgiveness - just a vague sort of Richard Fish "bygones." The only concept I have of forgiveness is tantamount to telling the wrong-doer that what he did was ok, and giving him permission to repeat the offense.
While I won't necessarily hunt you down to avenge myself if you wrong me, neither will I go on with our association as though it never happened. And I certainly won't put myself in a position to allow youto hurt me again. Even if you apologize, it may be a long time before I feel that I can trust you again. I may never trust you again. Does that make sense?

How exactly do YOU define this slippery word "forgiveness?" Is it merely squelching one's natural desire for revenge? Is it not seeking justice against one who wronged you?

I understand the Jean Valjean/Bishop idea of forgiveness. When Valjean robs the Bishop and is caught by the police with the silverware, the Bishop tells the police that he not only gave Valjean the silverware as a gift, but that he also gave him the silver candlesticks, which he forgot to take with him. In that case, the Bishop recognized Valjean's poverty and fear, and chose not to punish him for being poor and afraid. Instead, he provides him with the means to get a fresh start on life as an honest man.
My ex still has my grandmother's Bible at his apartment. He changed the locks while I was in the process of moving out, forcing me to come get my things at his convenience. When I went to get the last of my belongings, my grandmother's Bible was gone from the bookshelf in the bedroom. That Bible and her rocking chair are the only belongings of hers that I had. He claims to have no idea where it is. I know better - that Bible sat on that same shelf from the time my mom gave it to me until the day I began moving out. He either hid it, destroyed it, or gave it away just to be an ass. While I can't do anything about it, should I just pretend that he never stole it? Should I offer him the rocking chair too?

When my daughter was 16, she asked to borrow my car to go one place for the night and went somewhere else instead. When she wasn't where she was supposed to be the next morning, I freaked - left a dozen "Where the hell are you?" messages on her voice mail, drove all over town looking for her, called her friends to see if any of them had heard from her, and was about to call the police when she called me. She apologized all over the place, but I still took away her keys, as well as her cell phone and her internet connection for a month. I took her to school and picked her up, I took her to work and picked her up, and she was not allowed to go anywhere else.
Once the month was up, I gave back her phone and her computer, and allowed her to drive my car again, with the caveat that if she did anything even remotely like that again, her driving privileges would be yanked until she was able to buy her own car. Should I have not imposed any consequences because she said she was sorry?

with todays news of the tornators killing 3 boy scouts, all i could think of was that its gods wish to punish the scouts for thier lack of diversity and inclusion of gay scouts GOd does reall love us all

"Forgiveness is perceived as submission, therefore it is looked at as weak, but in fact it takes extraordinary strength."

This line Lep?

A perception is that forgiveness is akin to submission. Submission is a weakness. Therefore those who forgive, or worse yet, ask for forgiveness are weak.

I think the reality is that forgiveness is not about submitting or weakness. In fact, it takes an incredible level of strength and will power to forgive.

Publicly I despise just about everything Jerry Falwell stood for. His Christian politics distorted the teachings of Jesus Christ. And I often felt he brought shame upon Christianity by his public treatment of homosexuals. I have to admit, however, to finding comfort in the fact that on a private level he was a very different man. I have little doubt Macel is letting us see a different side of this man. The real Christian side I would say. I will be forever confused about the difference between the public and private Falwell, but I'll leave that for the Lord to sort out.

"To me, allegation is another word for "gossip.""

Or, better yet, bearing false witness against your neighbor. Jerry Falwell broke this commandment all of the time.

Then why did he spew hate in the most
UN-christian ways?

Why did he co-author, distribute, and profit from the libelous video claiming Bill Clinton was a murderer in an attempt to sway the election while selling lies?

Why did he happily take millions in earnings when the bible says you can't serve both God and mammon?

Why did he reject the very lost souls that Jesus sought out?

You loved him, but he was a hypocrite of the highest order.

is for those who have done the crime and don't want to do the time. Here's the recommended by Jerry Falwell way out:

When standing before God be sure to mention you were a party to the crucifixion of His only begotten son and therefore all your violations of God's laws are forgiven. However telling the real God you were a party to the crucifixion of the son of Lucifer could do you some good. But then there's that business of calling the father of Jesus God, not likely to set well with God since Jesus was born out of wedlock.

Most likely, that good warm feeling forgiveness brings on comes from the fires of hell.

Conclusion: there is no way out. Do the crime, do the time. The sentence for calling Lucifer God is forever. Why did they leave the sacred scriptures that tell us that out of the Bible?

Jerry Falwell hurt me deep, deep down in my soul with his hateful words. He led far more people away from christ than he ever brought to christ. Some legacy.

Someone please tell Mrs. Falwell that "reality disconnects" frequently happen to people isolated in bubbles of privilege and opulence. What she is doing amounts to historic revisionism and it's the same thing other republicans have been doing with their patron saint Ronald Reagan. I haven't heard anyone say that Mr. Falwell was a bad father or person. The point is that as a public figure, he frequently spewed intolerance and bigoted messages from a religious pulpit, and this is not what Cristian religions are about. In effect, these are the same tactics that extremist Muslim clerics use to arouse their congregations and the results are well known. For this endeavor the motive is the same --to gain personal power-- and he is therefore no better than Farrakahn and middle-east clerics that are "righteously" vying for power.

It will be funny to read about what a nice job President George Bush Jr. has done after what is already being called the worst presidential fiasco in this Nation's history. Hey, maybe him and Dick Cheney will get the Nobel Peace Prize that Nancy Reagan couldn't get for Saint Ronald. We'll see!

Ghostbuster:

You're right - your "forgiveness is an act of submission" comment has me completely buffaloed. I don't get it at all.

I am sure that the image of Jerry Falwell that Mrs. Falwell presents is the way he presented himself to her and his family. It's a shame that he presented himself to the general public as something entirely different: a divisive, homophobic, anti-feminist fundamentalist quack.

"We're fighting against humanism, we're fighting against liberalism ... we are fighting against all the systems of Satan that are destroying our nation today ... our battle is with Satan himself." - Jerry Falwell

In short - Falwell rejected reason and rational thought for faith alone. Of course, when a nutjob like Falwell is telling you what your faith should mean, you need to resort to reason to determine that he's dead wrong and should ignored as the buffoon he was.

"Jerry loved people."

Sure: white, hetereosexual conservative men with lots of money, and their subservient wives. You know, people like Larry Craig.

This man was a self-righteous pompous donkey, and his "church" was a political arm of the Republican party that engaged in income tax fraud. The fourth-tier law school at Liberty University gave the Bush administration some one hundred fifty completely inept lawyers who have shred our Constitution to pieces and concentrated power among the weatly elites at the top.

I wouldn't touch this book if I saw it in a trash heap for fear of contracting some debilitating mental disease by mere contact.

Falwell, Hagee, Robertson, Swaggard etc., the scum of a bigot culture of institutionalized stupidity made the criminal Bush/Cheney era possible, from which the world, not only the US, will suffer for at least another generation.

Hope this finally belongs to the past. The "forgiveness" question does not appear in this context. Forgive Hitler? Oh yes, he loved Alsatian dogs.

Lep,

Yea, I guess neither one of us is bitter. If we were, I don't think we could be discussing this topic :)

Sorry to sidetrack a bit but a question I'm asking myself is this, if I went through what you went through, would I be bitter? I can't know for sure but I certainly might be. I know people who live comfortable lives who are bitter. I know others who lived through all kinds of injustice, who aren't bitter at all.

As to the forgiveness/submission thing, I don't think your following me there. I'll think about it a bit and try to stop back in a few.

I'm certainly up for dialogue, Ghostbuster.. but I have to agree with Lepi on this.

What if 'forgiveness' for one person looks a lot different from what your book or god says?

Then what?

"Quick question though, how could I ever convince someone to change how they feel?"

You can't. At least not verbally. The only person anyone of us can change is ourselves. Why would you want to?

What I am interested in is people's actions. You want to change somebody's feelings? Look at your actions. People have a whole lot of assumptions about me because I'm a Pagan. Some really outlandish ones. But you really wouldn't know the difference between the two of us if we met on the street or even if you followed me at my job.

Words have power, and talk is cheap. In our country you can say whatever you want- but a line must be drawn when other people take those words and start hurting people because of them. People with a public forum like national TV or radio or newspapers have a responsibility to that position. Which these days has been thrown out in favor of 'gotcha' moments, and people screaming at one another and fighting all in the name of 'entertainment'.

It's possible to let go of some things without forgiving. To process things in a new way, to take those feelings and use them productively to help other people. Those feelings can be very instructive. Time and empathy play big parts in that.

I think there's too much emphasis on forcing people to 'forgive' things that they're not ready to do so.

Unforgiveness doesn't necessarily lead to bondage. When those angry, hurt feelings are not dealt with or pushed down or shoved aside, because someone said they 'have to forgive'- THAT can lead to bondage. It's like Lepi said, about not allowing someone like Falwell to have that kind of power over me.

Forgiveness and Justice are two different things.

That version of forgiveness as put forth by a lot of Christians leaves a lot to be desired, in my opinion.

I'll remember Jerry Falwell for not practicing what he obviously preached over the years. I heard him in an interview on TV years ago stating that he had produced a videotape about allegations against Bill Clinton because people should know who they were voting for. To me, allegation is another word for "gossip." It is interesting that Falwell only produced the video about Bill Clinton. I am not aware that he produced any other such tapes. If he forgave Bill Clinton, I am not aware of it. Bill Clinton asked for forgiveness from the clergy when they were assembled at a prayer breakfast.

Ghostbuster:

I agree with you about the effect of unresolved bitterness. I'm not bitter. I haven't allowed it to ruin the rest of my life. There are simply times when circumstances bring it back to me.

But what exactly is meant by "forgive?"
According to your scriptures, when God forgives a sin, it's as though the sin never happened.
I can't forget that it ever happened.

Your scriptures say that a person must ask God to forgive us in order for him to do so, but mortals are apparently expected to do so without being asked. Are we to do what a god cannot?

I don't get your perception of forgiveness as submission, Submission to whom? To the person who wronged me? Not gonna happen. To a god? My gods don't require submission. To your god? I tried that when I was contemplating divorcing a violent ex-husband. Trying to follow the rules of your book regarding marriage damn near got me killed.

My wife got Macel to sign a copy of her book for me for Father's Day. She obviously didn't want to wait for Father's Day to give me the book - I stayed up until 2am the other night finishing it with tears in my eyes. I'm proud to have met Dr. Falwell a few times, I'm proud of how Jerry Jr is leading the University to continued growth, and of how Jonathan is doing the same with the Church. Many have something negative to say about Dr. Falwell, but I doubt they ever took the time to research and find out anything of the true Jerry Falwell. His legacy and impact for the Kingdom will last for eternity. Thank you, Dr. Falwell, for your inspired and inspiring life, and thank you Macel for sharing your memories. God Bless You, Larry

Posted on June 12, 2008 12:51

Lepidopteryx:
JJ:
Att: Lepidopteryx, (A Neo-Wiccan/Pagan & Lesbian?)
-----Pagan yes. Wiccan no. Lesbian no. You don't have to be gay to oppose sexual discrimination any more than you have to be black to oppose racial discrimination.

Do To technical Problems on the Jerry Falwell post, that "i" am redirecting an answer & a Question to your Post!

-----Ok - I'll copy my response to the Falwell page. It might be your computer, though. I'm not having any problems with it.-----

Taco Bell hath 'Public' Bathrooms (aka Behind Closed Doors) aye???? Why should Baby's see Adult (Un-Natural) Behavoirs, lude acts etc..????

------Dear boy, cooking one's food is an unnatural behavior, as is wearing clothing, living in air-conditioned houses, and using computers.
So you think that gay men and lesbians should only be allowed to express their affection for each other in toilets? Have you ever taken yur wife's hand while strolling through the mall, or across the table at a restaurant? Ever put your arm around her shoulders and give her a kiss in a movie theater? What if seeing that made someone else uncomfortable? Should you be made to stop?------

i beg a Question:

We Straights make-up 99.60% of the Amercian backed Holy & Precious U.S.'s Constitution, so why is it that a measly 0.40% of whole American population can change that Holiness or gurantee but whom dare to Take away that , inalienable Right' or that Sacred sanctity of Marriage, Exclusively {According to NATURE, which is G-D Manifest, unless ye are Un-Goldy addmiting Lovers} between a Real-MAN & a Real-WOMAN.

-------Black people were a minority in this country when segregation was repealed. Since Jim Crow laws represented the will of the majority, should they have been allowed to stand? The "will of God" was used to try to justify such laws - the Tower of Babel was cited as well as the curse of Canaan. Should we still have Whites Only water fountains, racially segregated schools, and laws forbidding inter-racial marriages?------

First to address you specifically Leo, I am sorry that you have been assaulted! That is a horrific story. Those acts against your person require justice. Please know that the rest of my post does not address your situation specifically.

thoughts...

Unforgiveness turns into bitterness.

Bitterness is bondage. It debilitates individuals on mental, emotional, spiritual and sometimes even physical levels.

Bitterness takes on a cyclical form - Find Offense - React - Justify Reaction.

Each time through the cycle it becomes easier to justify our increasing bitterness and harder to rationalize our own motivation.

The only way to avoid the cycle is to never be offended. This is impossible.

The only way to break the cycle is to forgive.

Forgiveness is perceived as submission, therefore it is looked at as weak, but in fact it takes extraordinary strength.

Think about Jesus on the cross forgiving those who were killing them or MLK forgiving the racists who threw him in jail and eventually had him killed.

I think forgiveness is an unnatural act.

Justice rightfully enslaves the offender. Forgiveness frees the victim.

Regards

GB

He was a flake and you have a conflict of interest. Your opinion is worthless

Macel dear is very good at
painting old jerry as a benevolent
christist who did no wrong
and was constantly hounded by
the press.

B.S. !!!!

This 2 faced con man was quick to
look for "sin" in everyones
nook and cranny and was guilty
of 2 of the biggest ones himself -
A lying gossiping tongue and
gluttony.

The day this sinful ball if pig
lard went to hell the devil cried
not in his beer. Pig lard that burns
forever will make the place even
HOTTER!!!!!!!!!

Rev Dr. Knowinso Jones

Jerry Falwell... God rest his soul, and the millions of his inheiritance. While we must respect the dead, there is also here a patent attempt at something that is impoossible -- a wife's attempt to resurrect his image, or to change it after the fact. "The deeds that men do live after them." Now, do you really think this book portrays the "real" Jerry Falwell -- who so much vitiated American politics and helped make history a little meaner and more narrow minded? If so, go and buy it, you will certainly enjoy the read.

P.S. I question the motives behind your writing this book if you profit from it.

If you are sincere, then give it all away to some of the people who need it the most.

I suggest that, in Jerry's name, you donate the proceeds from the book to help some of the people he hurt. How about donating to Gay/Lesbian/Transgender youth centers? Transgendered people are still murdered regularly in the US by "christians." How about donating to programs that support people of color who are still working to overcome the kind of racism Jerry preached? Or set up programs to teach "christians" to actually follow the teachings of Jesus, love and compassion for their fellow humans whether or not they understand or agree with them.

I took the drive from DC to Lynchburg VA just so I could piss on the fat slobs grave....it was wonderful! I had three big gulps on the drive down and I didn't stop once. Whew, that felt GREAT!!!

I took the drive from DC to Lynchburg VA just so I could piss on the fat slobs grave....it was wonderful! I had three big gulps on the drive down and I didn't stop once. Whew, that felt GREAT!!!

GAG, BARF, PUKE! The fat gas bag is long overdue dead, even the worms throw up after nawing on his disgusting carcas. Rot you SOB, rot.

Macel, privately Jerry may have been a great family man, but publicly he preached hate and hypocrisy. He did his best to injure families that did not resemble his own. He was intolerant, lacking compassion, and participated in corrupt government. So whatever he was to you, he hurt a lot of people.

JJ:
No one owes you an explanation.

How do you define seriously making out? Dry kissing? Tongues? Groping? Full-out 69? And at a Taco Bell? Personally, I can't think of too many venues less likely to inspire me to a case of the raging hornies than a Taco Bell.

PDA to the point where clothes are shifting is gauche, regardless of the gender(s) involved. It's not just a gay thing. I've seen guys grab their girlfriend's breast in public - if my husband did that, I'd slap him senseless. A peck on your darling's cheek or lips when setting the cheesy plastic tray down on the grody plastic table, however, is not a problem.
Staring at other people's displays of affection is rude, regardless of your feelings regarding those displays. Taking pictures is defionitely out of line.

"Coincidentally, I was watching the news over the last few days about the storms, tornados and floods in the midwest and wondering what Jerry Falwell would have felt regarding the misery these poor people were experiencing.

I wondered if he would condemn these white church going people for bringing these disasters on themselves like he did to people who don't look like him?

I really wonder."

In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen.

I saw Dr Falwell several times on TV. Almost every time if not every time he mentioned his conversion, "finding Jesus" or "seeing the light" you might say. Do you cover this aspect of his brilliant career serving God in any detail in your book?

My understanding is that he came from a family of bootleggers. In fact, I understood given his scattered accounts of his early life to have begun his career as a "bootlegger's assistant" himself being too poor to afford his own operation.

He never said leaving me to wonder if he ever did any time in the county jail. That's one of the hazards of the bootlegger trade that would have given him some free time at the expense of others to study the Bible and break out of both jail and poverty in one easy step.

Anyhow, I can't help but notice how closely, given my skimpy accounts, his life's story parallels that of Moses. Moses was a criminal on the run from the law living in the land of Midian tending someone else's sheep when he found God living in a ball of fire, the kind of fire found only in hell. Like Jerry leaving the bootlegger trade and becoming a minister the fortunes of Moses took a dramatic step upward on the economic scale. Both were living in poverty tending someone else's flocks, (boozers come in flocks like sheep) when they made deals with supernatural beings and as a direct result got their own flocks and all the wealth and that which comes with wealth.

If that part of his life and especially if you give us some details of Jerry finding God like the Bible does Moses finding God I would be inclined to buy a copy of your book. Jerry didn't make a deal with a being that lives in the same kind of fire hell is made from like Moses did he?

We all know Jerry Falwell was a really nice man that never did anything but good teaching love and compassion just like Moses. He didn't need to have any "firstborn sons" whacked in the middle of the night by an angel of the Lord God of Israel to get what God wants did he? Jerry did want the same things God, well, the supernatural being that lives in the same kind of fire hell is made from wants? There's a right smart of gap between bootlegger assistant and America's pastor just like there is between killer on the run and leader of God's chosen people.

Did you ever hear of the expression, "Keep Your penis in Your Pants."?

Well, Lesbians should keep their Tongues in their mouths & lips apart (but Hand Holding , in Public, which is a custom in some parts of Earth symolizing same-sex "Friends", not Lovers (Non-Straight) is Questionable))!

Note: Not Long ago this year , my kid was at a Taco-Bell & these Two Lesbians was seriously making-out, and when my Son said "Uuuudiscusting" then suddenly, the one looking like the Guy (Role-Model in drag) tellsa him to turn around and don't look.

Interestingly: Even Though Lesbians claim that Their Behaviour is 'safer' than a Man Homosexual relationship THAT

based on Same-Sex Patterns & or Behaviours, that Lesbians tend to not hold back, in-"PUBLiC", compared to Men Non-Straights who do it in in-"Private."

Hello {World}, if i was there i would've used the Camera-Phone , which my Boy did not have, & Called the Cops!

Meaning: Judicially (Righteously) i could,ve proved that, even though in New York City 'Non-Straights' , Today have near Equal-Rights to straights or same (Discrimination, Hate?, anti-Violence codes etc..) Freedom of Expression, Rather

"Abuse of Freedom of Expression & Abuse of Public Discretion & disregard for Public Decency, like fiduciary responsibilities ...." is the Verdic. Guilty As Charged! Shame! Ye (non-Straights) hath no Shame , un-just blame (Us Straights)!

They Deliberately Disregard their Public-DUTY?, not Private-Business?) is surely an Afront, not only to my little Boy, but also to Us straight folk & Jerry Falwell (He's Rolling over in his grave so to speaketh) et al!

Does ANY NON-Straighter, on This Blog (For All The World To see), have an explanation to 'Us Straights' a/k/a Mr. & Mrs. Joe & Jane Public???

spiderman2 asks:

"If an insider reveals that China or Russia plan to nuke the U.S., would you hate that whistleblower?"

Uh, if the insider's name was "Curveball," and if the person he was giving the info to was named bush, then I'd be very suspect about whether or not the info had any credibility.

Mrs. Falwell,

As Jesus states: Father, please forgive them as they know not what they do. Your son, Jonathan is an amazing man of God and I watch Liberty TV on SkyAngel on the weekends and get a change to see some teachings of Mr. Falwell. In closing, God Bless you and Your Family as you continue Christ's work through your husband's obedience to God's calling, in season and out of season.
Love, in Christ...

Ghostbuster:

I'd be interested in your thoughts on forgiveness.

Ding, dong, Jerry Falwell is (still) dead!

I'd spit on his grave, though Lynchburg is simply not worth traveling to.

I saw plenty of the real Jerry Falwell. He can rest in peace as long as he stays where he is.

spiderman2:
Lepidopteryx, that's a sad story and I sympathise with you but how sure are you that the man who had wronged you follows Falwell's preaching?

The right thing to do is you should have sued the person who had wronged you and avoid pointing the sins of others to another.

-------------------------------------------------
Spiderman,

I didn't mean to say that the man who raped me was a follower of Falwell. He wasn't. I don't blame Falwell for my being raped. I blame the man who raped me.
I was using him as a way to illustrate the issues I have with the concept of forgiveness in general, especially when the guilty party does not own up to his wrongdoing. Sorry if that got muddied up. I tried to avoid confusion by separating it on the page, but I guess I should have given a bit more exposition.

I didn't go to the police for several reasons - youth, fear, embarrassment. By the time I was mature enough to realize what I should have done, it was too late. The statute of limitations was long up. I did seek therapy and it's not like I dwell on it constantly. But it will always be there and it does rear its ugly head on occasion.

What I was referring to with Falwell being responsible for people being hurt in Jesus' name was the fact that there are certain people who take comments such as his and interpret them to mean that attacking (mentally, economically, and/or physically) certain groups of people is doing God's will. Falwell and his ilk know this and they do nothing to discourage such people.

Jerry Falwell is the christian version of Osama Bin Laden, less the intellect and double the hate. I'm sure he's burning in hell right now.

"Does Ms. Falwell address the question of divorce, which Jesus more explicitly forbade than abortion or homosexuality?"

Jesus also did not explicitly forbid robbery.....

what a meaningless argument

"It's not about hate. I don't hate the man. I didn't hate him when he was alive. Hating a person gives that person power over you, and I refuse to give someone like Falwell power over me.
Calling him out on his bad behavior isn't hate."

I like that line of reasoning. I agree 100%.

I breifly read over the rest of your post and have some thoughts on forgiveness.

Looks like they buried this tread though. I doubt you and Priver will find it now, it took me a while to dig it up.

If you do, post something and I'll stop back by.

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. " (Genesis 2:7)

The monkey or gorilla were made separately and without a soul.

"And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; MEN WITH MEN working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet." (Romans 1:27)

Well, my God. The pages of On Faith are turned over to an author to plug her book. The crass commercialization of what is billed as a forum for the discussion of religion in America. Insider Washington in full display.

For the record: Jerry Falwell was one of the biggest hypocrites the Christian faith has ever produced. He is one of the leading voices that twisted and contorted the message of Jesus into a bastardized version obsessed with abortion, homosexuality, and the evils of evolution--things Jesus never said one word about. Thrown overboard were the message of love, compassion, forgiveness, tolerance, and concern for the poor and downtrodden--things Jesus said a great deal about. American Christianity is even now going through the agony of trying to recover from this affliction.

Falwell, you recall, was the specific target of John McCain's 2000 depiction as an "agent of intolerance."

Two questions: Does Ms. Falwell address the question of divorce, which Jesus more explicitly forbade than abortion or homosexuality? And does Ms. Falwell really believe that billions of human beings will be denied eternal salvation unless they believe exactly as she believes?

Lepidopteryx, that's a sad story and I sympathise with you but how sure are you that the man who had wronged you follows Falwell's preaching?

The right thing to do is you should have sued the person who had wronged you and avoid pointing the sins of others to another.

There are a lot of fake Christians. Even Christ said that few will go to heaven despite the fact that there are many "Christians" in this world today.

Hi Priver,

I'm glad you responsed. Maybe your up for a dialogue? On my end, I don't have much time but I'll do my best.

It's an interesting pickle for me here. I'm not a fan of Jerry in the least and I understand the anger. His statement after 9/11 (among others) are indefensible IMO. That makes what I'm attempting here much more challenging, and make no mistake I will make an attempt.

I bust ghosts. Its what I do. We all have our hobbies.

Quick question though, how could I ever convince someone to change how they feel?

Regards,
GB

Ghostbuster:

It's not about hate. I don't hate the man. I didn't hate him when he was alive. Hating a person gives that person power over you, and I refuse to give someone like Falwell power over me.
Calling him out on his bad behavior isn't hate.

Many of us have to deal with the effects of the nasty words preached by him and others like him every day.
My car has been vandalized because of my Pagan bumper stickers. How do I know it was because of my bumper stickers? Four words - spray paint, "Jesus saves."
I have been physically assaulted by street and door-to-door evangelists because I refused to take their literature or let them tell me about Jesus. When I say physically assaulted, I mean grabbed by one after repeated attempts to walk past him as he kept countering to block my path, and having another put his foot in my door when I attempted close it. Was it hate for me to knee the guy who grabbed me in the groin, and to throw my weight against the door when slamming it on the other guy's foot? I call it self-defense.

I'll admit that I have some issues with the concept of forgiveness. I'm not sure even exactly what the word means.
I've been told by one Christian that I should forgive the man who raped me over twenty years ago. He has never asked for my forgiveness, never even admitted that he did anything wrong. Even Falwell's God doesn't forgive unless the guilty person asks for forgiveness.
And what does it mean to forgive him? To act as though it never happened? That's hard to do when I still have occasional nightmares about it, and when the first time my husband and I made love, he unwittingly triggered a flashback.
If I meet him in public, will I stop to chat? No. Will I invite him over for dinner, introduce him to my husband and daughter? No.
Will I seek him out, break into his home, and kill him in his sleep? No. If he crosses the street in front of my car, will I run him over? No. Do I wish ill to befall him? No. If I heard that he had died, would I feel grief? No. Would I attend his funeral? No. Would I feel relief that there was no chance of my ever encountering him again? Yes.
Is that forgiveness? I don't know. But it's the best I can do.

The preaching of Falwell and others like him has led to acts of violence and acts of gross dicrimination against many people. Holding him accountable for his role in those actions is not hate. Refusing to give him a pass after death on what he said and did while alive, especially when such things still affect my life, isn't hate. It's keeping your guard up so that you don't get sucker-punched by those who followed him, follow his successor, and follow others like him.

Do we forget what Hitler did, forgive the Holocaust because he's dead? No. Not even if he was kind to animals. We put it in our history books so that we won't make the same mistake again.

Hi Ghostbuster:

Please don't attempt to tell someone how they 'should' feel or what they 'should' do. People have a reason for feeling as they do about someone like Falwell. This man should never have been given a national forum to play on fears of the others who are not like him. I have no need to forgive. Eventually it will be let go, but there's no need to forgive, just because he's dead.

The minute we forget is the minute it starts again. I honestly think that he would also have blamed the Jews for 9/11 if he thought that he could get away with that too.

Besides, It's a false comparison to compare hate to cancer. Hate is contagious and easily spread between people. When left unchecked, hate has given our country the 'Moral Majority', 'intelligent design', 'Focus on the (straight pious Christian) Family', 'values voters', and GW Bush.

No matter what someone says, you can't catch cancer from another person. And the cure for cancer is often worse than the disease itself. As someone who's taken care of a loved one suffering the aftereffects of extreme treatments, I can personally attest to this.

Falwell and those who support him have a LOT to answer for.

We need a forum like this to be able to express what we really feel about what people like Falwell have done to our country. Most people who hold air time these days are calling themselves Christian and take great pride in telling others how to live or how they're going to hell. I've heard it since i was born.

My response is always 'what interest would I have in your heaven? Seeing as how everyone I love is either Jewish or Pagan and wouldn't be there anyway?' That's the closest I get to an idea of hell, if it even exists. Which I don't even believe in.

Why don't more people stand up to the likes of Falwell, Robertson and his ilk? Why are these people given national platforms and their advice solicited about anything?

I thought that Christianity was supposed to mean something to people who follow it. To revere someone who cared for the outcasts and downtrodden of society. To stand up to injustice, not perpetrate it in someone's name.

And people wonder why I don't understand Christianity.

I don't ultimately hate anyONE- I don't care enough about Falwell to have an opinion of the man one way or the other- but words have power. So When anyone comes along with his type of words, I will fight back.

Blessed be.

The guy had made mistakes but he regreted those mistakes. You guys should look at yourselves instead and see what good have you done compared to this man.

Below is Wikipedia's account about Jerry Falwell.

***
Civil rights

During an appearance on MSNBC, Falwell said he was not troubled by reports that Supreme Court nominee John G. Roberts had done volunteer legal work for gay rights activists on the case of Romer v. Evans. Falwell told MSNBC's Tucker Carlson that if he were a lawyer, he too would argue for civil rights for gays. "I may not agree with the lifestyle, but that has nothing to do with the civil rights of that part of our constituency," Falwell said. When Carlson countered that conservatives "are always arguing against 'special rights' for gays," Falwell said that equal access to housing, civil marriage, and employment are basic rights, not special rights. "Civil rights for all Americans, black, white, red, yellow, the rich, poor, young, old, gay, straight, et cetera, is not a liberal or conservative value. It's an American value that I would think that we pretty much all agree on."[11]

Falwell supported Anita Bryant's 1977 "Save Our Children" campaign to overturn an ordinance in Dade County, Florida that prohibited discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation and a similar movement in California.[2]

Falwell grew up in a strongly segregationist setting and supported racial segregation. In 1965, he gave a sermon at his Thomas Road Baptist Church criticizing Martin Luther King, Jr. and the Civil rights movement, which he sometimes referred to as the "Civil Wrongs Movement". On his Evangelist program The Old-Time Gospel Hour in the mid 1960s, he regularly featured segregationist politicians like Lester Maddox and George Wallace.[12] He said this about Martin Luther King: "I do question the sincerity and non-violent intentions of some civil rights leaders such as Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Mr. James Farmer, and others, who are known to have left wing associations."[13]

Falwell's views eventually shifted and he became one of the first Pastors to favor an interracial congregation.

Mrs. Falwell,

the blood of the Palestinian women and children is staining your husband's legacy. Just imagine the money and moral support your husband provided to kill these poor women and children..........

Mrs. Falwell,

The "media" didn't create your husband's image. His image was merely a product of his own hateful words. I'll never forget Mr. Falwell standing side-by-side with segregationists on the Old-Time Gospel Hour, nor forget his hateful words against all those who did not share his racist, bigoted lifestyle.

I'm sure the loss you feel is very real, and I have nothing but compassion for you. But please try to understand why so many of us, including myself, jumped for joy when learning of your husband's death. He was an evil man, and the world is better without him.

i appologize my state should have read not....enslave or conquer... i like a lot of people am not perfect but i unlike a lot of people try to promply correct my mistakes
keith

i did not know the man you are talking about in real life, i suspect he is like a lot of other people in life he most likely treated the people he loved very well, and did many kind generous things for them, and nurtured them and gave them his time and his money. i suspect jerry falwell did do some good things....i maybe many.... also know the true measure of a man or woman is not how they treat people they like and agree with but people they don't like or dont agree with it is the humanity shown to people who have not neccessarilly earned it that earns the true humanitarian thier accolades in history or in the memorys of people they have come in contact with along thier walk in life. few people are saints most of us have major flaws that we have or do continually stuggle with and it in in the way that we over come our worst in oursleve that we truely may show our best. i have no doubt he gave away a lot of money to a lot of people but he seems to have come home with much more than empty pockets... i think sometimes trying to make humans on earth out to be perferf serves no good purpose on earth perfection afterall if you really believe is acheved only in heaven, by all means celebrate the good things this man did but dont close your ears to truth from other people who he may not have beeen so generous to or possibly even hostile to. if a person cant help a situation they shouldnt be given credit for causing more hurt and harm to an already hurting person,.. they should merely step out of the way if they are unable or unwilling to actually help with enslaving or conquering, i am not making any personal statements here only reflectling on things which seem to be true in all situations to me with all people including myself and jerry but i'm just a dyslexic artist and the son of a son of ablueridgemountain hillbilly so please check 4 truth if any

God, a.k.a. as Spiderman2, is gradually evolving: The earth, he concedes, may be a little older than 6000 years. Maybe, when God, oops, Spiderman2 will be 70, he might have arrived at a few million years in his estimate of the age of the universe, and even have had time to read a little bit about what evolution is all about. The conversation with him, alas, may be somewhat less funny then.

It may not be true that the earth is 6000 years old but it is worse to believe that the earth can produce life all by itself.

Free your children. You don't own their souls.

" Paganplace:

I mean, hey, the man made a *living* claiming Pagans and lesbians are 'morally-equivalent' to mass-murderers..."

You know, what comes up my mind instantly if he does that:

There was a time about 70 years back in Europe, Germany, where someone, we all know his name, made the same accusations. We all know how it ended.

Yes, it is real despicable and another low in human ethics. These folks like to elevate themselves to a god-like level and as they do it they fall so deep.

70 years back in Europe. We should never forget how it started, picking on the Jews, the gays, ..the non-conformists.

You guys won't understand Jerry Falwell until America starts burning. If God says gay marriage is OK, preachers would say that. But God said he abhors it. What do you expect Falwell to say?

He is just an honest preacher.

"Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves" (Isaiah 28:15)

"And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it." (Isaiah 28:18)

I mean, hey, not to put too fine a point on it, but the man sold *poison* and called it 'God.' Since and through the Cold War.

Always wrong, but that never stopped him.

Paganplace,

I do understand that. I am baffled by the level of ignorance these folks display. I doubt, though, that there is any chance to convince these folks, even have a fruitful discussion with them. So what is left then is to make sure that others don't get dragged into these delusional and dogmatic convictions. Children are at the highest risk. That is where we need to watch.

If ever somebody would try to talk my 11 year old into this stuff I would become pretty unpleasent.

For instance: the chairman of the Texas State Board of Education, McLeroy, is a guy that believes the earth is 6000 years old, one of those creationists. I think therein is the real danger. If these folks get the hands on the brain of our kids, that is serious trouble.

As long as Shearer posts his convolutions right here, let him go.

Peace.

I mean, hey, the man made a *living* claiming Pagans and lesbians are 'morally-equivalent' to mass-murderers....

You know what happens, then?

Nothing's forgotten.

Cause, Richard, for every Canyon, there's a number of lurkers.

I could kick a Canyon in the teeth sure as you please.

Could be some lurker is my neighbor. Or a neighbor of someone not unlike me.

It's possible, Spidey, that you don't understand exactly how revolted I am at violence, or exactly how long and persistently Rev. Falwell spoke to advocate it happening, cause ou seem to believe his notion that wharever else may be wrong in the world, I need for, 'extraordinary renditions' or whatever you call it these days...

However someone wishes to recast it. Reverend Jerry Falwell has been a constant voice advocatng the worst of oppresions and scapegoating and what follows therefrom, all my life.

He's dead, now.

Maybe it's forgiven.

Nothing's forgotten.

Nothing.

Paganplace,

why the hell are you still waisting your time. Communication with Spider is a total, a total loss. Or is it the fun, just kicking the ball?

That's probably it, because no one can take Shearer serious.

Your husband is complicit in the ongoing ethnic cleasning of palestinians. There are over 6 million palestinian refugees living in camps becasue of monsters like your husband.

Maybe you don't understand this in your cushy white-male Christian life....

Know what it's like to be monitoring local radio and hearing a preacher saying, 'UYou shall kill them and their blood shall be upon them.'

PTL. Wahoo.

Lovely to have a single-shot .410 between you and that 'whistleblowing.' Cause Bob Barr and Governor Bush figure it's 'righteous...'

Guess whose voice you'd hear daily like that?

Apparently Mrs. Falwell figures we got him all wrong.

Hel of a time to start quibbling, madame.

Gods.

Let's put it this way.

Falwe;l blamed queers and Pagans for 9/11.

It didn't have to wait for 9/11, what he taught.

"

"But when some preacher decides to focus all that anxiety on a girl, she *notices* when someone tries to rape her straight. "

Paganplace, can you please elaborate on this one? I don't understand it."

May you never have to.

Turns out, though, that some people think queers are *so bad* that...Well... May you never find out.

But the words of that man....

By the way, just so you understnd the full depth and impact of my meaning, here, I'm no just talking 'failing to beat the statistical spread of random guesses,' here.

I mean.

Always wrong.

Always seaking in the 'name of God.'

Always blaming innocents.

*Always wrong.*

Capiche?

"But when some preacher decides to focus all that anxiety on a girl, she *notices* when someone tries to rape her straight. "

Paganplace, can you please elaborate on this one? I don't understand it.

"I didn't hear anything". That will be God's response upon hearing unbelievers shout in pain burning in Hell.

After this life , God becomes like gravity. It will suck you down no matter how hard you can shout.

One good advice : If one burns in Hell, he shouldn't shout for help coz it will just burn his/her tongue.

Burning whole concrete cities is not possible, but God made it possible by the invention of nukes.

NOBODY CAN STOP THE PROPHECY.

I'm not sure you quite understand this, Spiderman, speaking of missiles.

How do I put this.

I grew up living under the #2 strategic target for ICBMs that was gonna get hit basically first as soon as Reagan, who we all knew was totally-slipping at the time... went and said or did something stupid.

We had more plans for nuclear war than for the junior prom, and even *then* Falwell* was blaming it on gays rather than the fact a cowboy actor going senile was holding the fricking *Football.*

Not to split hairs or nothing.

But when some preacher decides to focus all that anxiety on a girl, she *notices* when someone tries to rape her straight.

Fallwell was preaching imminent doom through nuclear war at the time... Said God told him, like he told God told him all the other hateful things he said.

Guess what.

He was *always wrong.*

Doesn't mean some eedjit somewhere didn't take it to heart.

Like you.

What, ha? Didn't think I was listening, did you? Trust me, that dude was blaming me for any potential Apocalypse since I was *so high.* Really. It coulda been like Red Dawn, only... It didn't happen.

Paganplace, you should start enjoying your life now coz this is the only life you got. Once it's over, you won't have a neighbor except total darkness and fire.

I really pity you. I hope by the time missiles start landing in California, you'd remember all the things that I said.

If it happens, it means Hell is just around the corner waiting for dead unbelievers.

If you have children, let them have a Bible and let them be the owner of their soul.

*opening dinosaur mask and lighting cigar.*

I love it when an intelligent design comes together. :)

What, Spidey? According to Falwell's 'Divine Whistleblowing,' we obviously actually died twenty years ago, foo! Let's watch the A-Team!

Paganplace wrote "See what your husband taught?"

Me and Jerry Falwell don't know each other. In fact I haven't heard him preach yet. But we have the same Master who taught us. When can you learn? Try reading the Bible and LEARN from it so the communication gap between us wont be so huge.

BTW, Fundies, ...that inevitable nuclear Armageddon you claimed would fulfill our wet dreams of some other book of Revelations and American myyths related thereto circa 1880 and Jonathan Edwards and all?

Notit!

*doot*

Nosebeep.

I mean, of course, I'm sure Spidey's gleeful at 'joyfully' 'blowing the whistle' about me 'burning eternally' ....but Falwell 'blew the whistle' for decades about us being a client state of the USSR by now for a long time, ...with equal professed conviction 'God' said it was inevitably to be so.

Tsk.

Tune in next week, true-believers....

I mean, really, Bgone, when Falwell wasn't trying to curse new Orleans or Disneyworld, he was claiming 'God Told Me He's Gonna Wipe Out San Fransisco This Year' every other year for a few decades, there.

Nice guy.

Very prophetic, too.

"Whistle blowers blow their whistles AFTER something has happened not before."

Ideally, Bgone, this is not the case... But, if you're gonna blame gays and Pagans for 9/11 and Katrina, it hardly matters when you do it.

spiderman2: sez, "Paganplace, Jerry Falwell and I are just whistleblowers. God has revealed that UNBELIEVERS WOULD BURN."

Is that which is unbelieved important? But of course, the truth is not important only what people unbelieve is important. Do you and Jerry Falwell unbelieve anything? Important?

Whistle blowers blow their whistles AFTER something has happened not before. No one can know for sure that a nuclear attack will happen. One could happen any moment. Blowing one's whistle about a nuclear attack is redundant since they're impossible to unbelieve once they have happened even though the survivors, if any will likely say, "what happened."

Again, Mrs. Falwell: Look at Spiderman2:

See what your husband taught?

What he's done lives after him, and it's not you that has to deal with the fallout.

It's those he scorned in life.

And this is a matter of record.

What he insisted upon. Delighted in with that smirk on his face.

And, Spiderman.

*deep breath.*

Any God that tought you to get off on 'burning' innocents is no God to appease.

If the world were like that, then good people would have to *stand* against such a sadistic creature, no matter what tortures were threatened, or what rewards were promised.

My Gods know from this.

If yours doesn't, he's no friend of humanity.

Understand, Spidey?

I believe you have a myth or two about resisting the temptation of being promised the world if only you'll subjugate others.

My people refuse, as I do.

The tragedy of you Fundies is you ape your own Antichrist of myth... why, I dunno.

You've already promised and threatened as much as you can.

Breathe.

Have a little faith. If you dare.

Well, FWIW, ...I dunno if Priver's still around... but no neither cancer nor hate was ever stopped by denial, dude.

Falwell's cancerous hate, and its effects on the lives of real people for all those years, lives after him. Unless we all let it rest with the man.

So this widow can.

There's no rest in lies.

If an insider reveals that China or Russia plan to nuke the U.S., would you hate that whistleblower?

Paganplace, Jerry Falwell and I are just whistleblowers. God has revealed that UNBELIEVERS WOULD BURN.

What is so hard understanding about that? Do you believe Falwell and I want you people to burn? What are fire alarms for? They are there to warn people before the fire gobbles them up.

We are like EARLY WARNING DEVICES. Take out the fire-alarms and see what catastrophe that would bring.

****

I've seen on CNN how Liberty University are training lawyers to stand for Christ. I judge a person by his fruits and I commend JERRY FALWELL for having that VERY BIG GOOD FRUIT. For that alone, I consider him as one of the greatest persons I admire.

JERRY FALWELL, YOU ARE THE MAN !!.

Mrs. Falwell, don't listen to the unbelievers in this blog. A few years from now these people will burn anyway. Both here on earth and the next life. The U.S was spared of the burning during WW1 and WW2. WW3 is coming and it won't be spared anymore.

Unbelief is the cause.

***

Just like Jerry Falwell, we're just the messengers so please don't shoot at us. Instead, check your calendars and encircle the day ten years from now. Observe how this world is spinning wildly, both natural and man-made as the day approaches. Everything will culminate to a grand burning just like Sodom.

"I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America. I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen.'"

Add to that the atheists. 911 was just a foretaste. See the much greater destruction coming soon.

What do you think of my quotes Priver?

At what point does the cancer begin?

Thoughts?

-GB

"If only.. now that I'd pay to see. :)"

MMA, Priver... but don't we all. I wasn't exactly a flower child last time around, myself. :)

I mean, respect for the dead, Roy? Where was *his* respect for the dead, after 9/11 and Katrina, and he said thousands were dead, why? Cause someone was *gay?*

Mother of Punk, where was the respect, *then?*

MMA Paganplace, you said:

"I mean, have some compassion, Priver, he's probably going to end up like a transsexual of an unfashionable ethnicity in like Joburg or South Carolina, or, worse, start over exactly where he was last time he was born. :)"

If only.. now that I'd pay to see. :)

Oh, yeah, and speaking of how to treat the dead... I do seem to remember Falwell gloating over gays dying of AIDS while I was mourning a gay friend who died by drowning.

Falwell may rest, but not to be recontextualized so his ugliness can be recycled to hurt more people.

No way.

Actually, Ghostbuster, he could have rested as a dead man.... but if someone living wants to make his hateful words keep on hurting people, ...it's not about the dead no more.

It's about we living the man *did* make a career of hurting.

And someone else making a go of it.

So the man is dead. Now let's direct all our justified anger on his widow from behind our anonymous masks. How predictibly pathetic.

There is another way, but it is much more difficult.

"Let no man pull you low enough to hate him."
-MLK

"Hate is like a cancer. It doesn't matter if you have a little cancer or a lot of cancer - it's still cancer!"
-Unknown

Does the whole world have to stomp in our face?

Pardon me, Madam, but hateful neochristian ignorance spewed directly out of his own mouth not the media's. I would rather stand in line for twenty minutes for George Bush's autograph than buy your book (and, believe me, I the last person in the world I would want to meet is George Bush)

I mean, have some compassion, Priver, he's probably going to end up like a transsexual of an unfashionable ethnicity in like Joburg or South Carolina, or, worse, start over exactly where he was last time he was born. :)

Eh, Priver, maybe he's sittin in Summerland wondering why 'heaven' ain't as pleasing as he thought.

Or, maybe he's quicker on the uptake than that. :)

I can't help but be glad that someone as downright nasty as he was is gone. No matter if we were there trying to find out about loved ones or help out somehow, he decided to pin the blame on me, too.

If there was no statement by his own mouth, there would have been nothing to edit. Why people like this end up with any air time is beyond me.

These are people he was talking about. With families and loved ones. Who were blamed for something that had absolutely nothing to do with them.. all because they don't look, think or act like him.

Sorry but that is utterly inexcusable.

Oh, yeah, Mrs. Falwell... If your poor misrepresented husband, ...didn't want to come off like he did... you can't say he didn't have the means to do otherwise, what with owning a network and a university and all....

Seriously.

Boo, hoo.

I mean, 'Real?' That man never touched *base* with 'real.'

He wouldn't know 'real' if he'd been standing in the street when this queer Pagan was running into a burning building and all the Christians were making moon-eyes about the 'end of the world' Jerry was preaching.

Never even *registered,* the 'real,' did it?

How bout *you?*

Mrs. Falwell.

Where were *you?*

Not to get too far into what's 'real' ...but the 'real' Jerry Falwell supplied the words of my rapist, and so many who denied responsibility for what was done to me and 'my people'.

The 'Real' Jerry Falwell was not shy about appearing on TV and targeting me for mobs panicked over 9/11 before I even took a damn *shower* trying to help mitigate damage and protect my neighbors.

'Real?'

Whatever you saw wasn't 'Real.' It was what you and he constructed together while others suffered for what he said.

Feh.

Spiderman writes: "VERY BIG GOOD FRUIT."

That's good enough to read twice, no?

Re: Spiderman's posts...

See what I mean,

Mrs. Falwell?

What would you like to do now?

I've seen on CNN how Liberty University are training lawyers to stand for Christ. I judge a person by his fruits and I commend JERRY FALWELL for having that VERY BIG GOOD FRUIT. For that alone, I consider him as one of the greatest persons I admire.

JERRY FALWELL, YOU ARE THE MAN !!.

Mrs. Falwell, don't listen to the unbelievers in this blog. A few years from now these people will burn anyway. Both here on earth and the next life. The U.S was spared of the burning during WW1 and WW2. WW3 is coming and it won't be spared anymore.

Unbelief is the cause.

***

Just like Jerry Falwell, we're just the messengers so please don't shoot at us. Instead, check your calendars and encircle the day ten years from now. Observe how this world is spinning wildly, both natural and man-made as the day approaches. Everything will culminate to a grand burning just like Sodom.

"I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America. I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen.'"

Add to that the atheists. 911 was just a foretaste. See the much greater destruction coming soon.

I've seen on CNN how Liberty University are training lawyers to stand for Christ. I judge a person by his fruits and I commend JERRY FALWELL for having that VERY BIG GOOD FRUIT. For that alone, I consider him as one of the greatest persons I admire.

JERRY FALWELL, YOU ARE THE MAN !!.

Mrs. Falwell, don't listen to the pagans/atheists in this blog. A few years from now these people will burn anyway. Both here on earth and the next life. The U.S was spared of the burning during WW1 and WW2. WW3 is coming and it won't be spared anymore.

Unbelief is the cause.

***

Just like Jerry Falwell, we're just the messengers so please don't shoot at us. Instead, check your calendars and encircle the day ten years from now. Observe how this world is spinning wildly, both natural and man-made as the day approaches. Everything will culminate to a grand burning just like Sodom.

"I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America. I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen.'"

Add to that the atheists. 911 was just a foretaste. See the much greater destruction coming soon.

I've seen on CNN how Liberty University are training lawyers to stand for Christ. I judge a person by his fruits and I commend JERRY FALWELL for having that VERY BIG GOOD FRUIT. For that alone, I consider him as one of the greatest persons I admire.

JERRY FALWELL, YOU ARE THE MAN !!.

Mrs. Falwell, don't listen to the insects in this blog. A few years from now these people will burn anyway. Both here on earth and the next life. The U.S was spared of the burning during WW1 and WW2. WW3 is coming and it won't be spared anymore.

Unbelief is the cause.

***

Just like Jerry Falwell, we're just the messengers so please don't shoot at us. Instead, check your calendars and encircle the day ten years from now. Observe how this world is spinning wildly, both natural and man-made as the day approaches. Everything will culminate to a grand burning just like Sodom.

"I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America. I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen.'"

Add to that the atheists. 911 was just a foretaste. See the much greater destruction coming soon.

I mean, hey, Mrs. Falwell... I like to think I lay a pretty good spread, here in my house. Come look me in the eye and tell me I'm all so demonic as your husband's words told all manner of people I was...

If the world got him 'all wrong' it's about thirty years too late to be making that clarification.

Evil to him that sees.... Evil.

Just folks here, in spite of him.

And all his screaming of 'Evil.'

If the world got it wrong, where were *you?*

Mrs Falwell.

"Yeah, he may have been a good family man in private. "

Well, don't *that* justify 'evangelicals' getting behind a 'God-Ordained candidate' that anyone with an attention pspan of more than ten years would know was a notorious cokehead and DUI repeat offender till he got his own records sealed as Governor of Texas...

Hey, Let's go assault Babylon! God speaks to me and says it's OK!

Pay no attention to the Ibn Sauds behind the curtain! It's Gawd!

Blame the queers and Pagans when it explodes!

Yeah, Mrs, Falwell.

Maybe I forgave your husband.

But if you wanna do it again, this is on you.

Look at me.

Mrs Falwell,

Did being married to, and living with, such a despicable bigot cause you an ethical dilemma or do you share his equally detestable beliefs?

Jerry Falwell was on the same level as the radical Islamists that rail against the decadent West, and claim that anything bad that befalls them is "God's will". By saying that I and my Pagan brothers and sisters were responsible in some way for 9/11 was reprehensible and un-American. The empire that he created was done with the contributions of poor people and senior citizens. His support for apartheid in South Africa was downright evil.

Yeah, he may have been a good family man in private. But his public face was one of an intolerant, bigoted bully.

Jerry Falwell was like Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, John Hagee, Creflo Dollar, Peter Popov, Robert Tilton, Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Bakker, Mike Murdock, etc. He was a despicable man who turned God into a commodity that he could get rich on. He spewed hate, venom, and ignorance. He pandered to the worst anti-intellectualism of the American people. The world improved the day Jerry Falwell died.

"Uh ... I'm inclined to think that America turned its back on God when it institutionalized and defended slavery - and when all those Kluxers and their ilk took it on themselves to impose their views of what the Bible said on the countless victims of horrors like lynching and so on. Please don't tell me that slavery is biblical, because if you do, I'll just have to argue that if it is, then the bible is not worth bothering with."

Slavery *is* Biblical. Even if you find the idea unacceptable, it *is.*

Look right at me a moment, sir.

Slavery was a fact of life through *many* civilizations, including some I will quote some wisdom from to you at need.

America is not a Biblical or ...Arthurian kingdom.

It's something we have done, and do, the *hard way.*

We, in our many creeds and beliefs, are going to *keep doing it.* No cop-outs.

Yes, there's dirt. Any good plant has dirt.

We're gonna keep doing this.

Capiche? For tomorrow. Cause we will it. Cause nothing else will work, I promise we know this.

Dig?

This topic has been introduced at the baptist site www.baptistlife.com
Falwell will be the subject of a workshop next week when the CBF, the progressives Falwell worked to exclude, eliminate from the Southern Baptist Convention, meets in Memphis

This topic has been introduced at the baptist site www.baptistlife.com
Falwell will be the subject of a workshop next week when the CBF, the progressives Falwell worked to exclude, eliminate from the Southern Baptist Convention, meets in Memphis

This topic has been introduced at the baptist site www.baptistlife.com
Falwell will be the subject of a workshop next week when the CBF, the progressives Falwell worked to exclude, eliminate from the Southern Baptist Convention, meets in Memphis

Dear Mrs. Falwell,
I am of two minds here, considering how to remember Dr. F. I do not hold with the self-described pagans and others who don't have a clue as to the nature of Jesus Christ or even why they are here on this world. Their dismissive posts here give truth to the idea that they rage unendingly, and to no purpose in the end. Prayer is needed for many of these people, and how!
Now I take up the delicate business of criticizing one who is gone, who thought his whole life he was doing nothing but God's work and speaking truth where it was needed. I guess the bottom line is that one can not serve two masters, and by serving the media empire (so described by Dr. F's admirers) he built, the Rev lost track of his earlier desire to serve God. It can not fail to be this way. Not that he'd notice, it all looks and tastes and smells the same when you are on the inside, but it was easy to see from here. That doesn't make him any less effective, but my pioint is that effectiveness was for a purpose unrelated to bringing people to Christ, our primary (some say sole) mission on this Earth.
It doesn't matter if he pushed his celebrity or it was pushed on him, the result is the same - once at the pinnacle of this world's admiration, you must continue to serve it with sound bites and provocative positions and attempts to influence politics while you hobnob with the worldly great. That is an all-encompassing effort that brooks no rival, and that leaves God, sadly, out.
My Christ is a humble sort, camera-shy and disdainful of the limelight. He works in the shadows and doesn't let the left hand know what the right is doing. He builds up, brings together, heals, repairs and succors - all of the things you can't do when you are in the swirl of such celebrity as his in the world.
Remember the goodness of the man, write your books, and move on - but if you have two coats, or five pair of shoes, or closets full of dresses, or dates with your hairdresser for the next five months, try giving these to someone who has none, who hasn't the strength or the will to obtain all that you have been so lucky to get. Do these things, and remember what it is really like to be a Christian. THAT will remember Jerry Falwell better than any other memorial.

Coincidentally, I was watching the news over the last few days about the storms, tornados and floods in the midwest and wondering what Jerry Falwell would have felt regarding the misery these poor people were experiencing.

I wondered if he would condemn these white church going people for bringing these disasters on themselves like he did to people who don't look like him?

I really wonder.

When the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship (www.thefellowship.info) meets in Memphis next week amont their 100 or so workshops will be a breakout on progressive Baptist John Killinger and his days in same town Lynchburg with Falwell in the 80's.
Should be an interesting conversation there in that room in Memphis next Friday

On a related note, I do hope Newsweek will have the good sense to do a cover story on the Southern Baptists, and their move back to the right with the election of JohnnyHunt in Indy Yesterday.
Hunt's church in Woodstock Ga had an encounter with Ted Turner not long after jane Fonda got salvation several years ago; but the larger story for America is how Karl Rove's operative in the SBC, Richard Land, is using the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse to frame America's current political moment.

Dear Mrs. Falwell, you can't re-write history. Your husband was the worst kind of preacher.

He was one who cast judgement on others and condemned non-christians as hell-bound.

Your husband even blamed natural disasters on the poor, sick and innocent.

To say that he was a decent human being because he came home everyday with empty pockets is to excuse him, yourself and all of his followers of the terrible hatemongering that he spewed.

Just remember that Hitler loved pets and was a vegetarian, yet he was a vicious animal nonetheless.

Gail says: "As to the 9/11 comments, I agree 100% with his statement, and neither of us are blaming any particular people group or person. The point is that (as with Old Testament Israel), when we as a nation turned our back on God and decided to go against all of His mandates, we lost His protection on our nation and opened ourselves up to attack. Fortunately, as we can read in the Bible, we have simply to repent and turn back to God, and He is willing to forgive and heal our land."

Uh ... I'm inclined to think that America turned its back on God when it institutionalized and defended slavery - and when all those Kluxers and their ilk took it on themselves to impose their views of what the Bible said on the countless victims of horrors like lynching and so on. Please don't tell me that slavery is biblical, because if you do, I'll just have to argue that if it is, then the bible is not worth bothering with.

As for JJ... Would you like me to sing to you?

If you want 'forgiveness' for Rev. Falwell... 'forgive' me repeaing, since JJ chose this moment to spam:

Paganplace:

No, Mrs. Falwell, those words didn't die with him.

Gods know they had too much to do with *my* life.

Even before 9/11. He could be *counted*upon to say things that would justify the orst in humanity, as long as that humanity waved a Bible or wore a cross.

This is not 'Pagan lack of forgiveness,'

This is a Pagan saying, "Now it's *you.* What would you like to do *now,*

Mrs. Fallwell.

Did you ever even ask?

Or look?

No, Mrs. Falwell, those words didn't die with him.

Gods know they had too much to do with *my* life.

Even before 9/11. He could be *counted*upon to say things that would justify the orst in humanity, as long as that humanity waved a Bible or wore a cross.

This is not 'Pagan lack of forgiveness,'

This is a Pagan saying, "Now it's *you.* What would you like to do *now,*

Mrs. Fallwell.

Did you ever even ask?

Or look?

I have to admit, Mr. Mark, that though that quote is entirely consistent with everything else he's ever said, including mean-spirited 'prophecies' that unfailingly failed to happen... It's still words to remember him by, especially after this good Pagan spent the day of 9/11 and the few days thereafter.

Gods, let me spit the fricking asbestos out and make sure the Indian-owned mini-mart ain't getting firebombed before you start saying what Falwell did.

JLG sez:

"You may not agree with some of his political or religious beliefs...but to say he is a hateful man is simply ignorant."

Jerry Falwell sez immediately after 9/11:

"I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America. I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen.'"

"Jerry Falwell many times I can say that the one thing he is not is a hateful man."

Well, I never did think his words were *insincere,* perhaps what he spouted for upwards of fourty years was simply... Inarticulate?

I will not make this long, but as someone who has met and talked with Jerry Falwell many times I can say that the one thing he is not is a hateful man.

I am far from a perfect person, and far from what Jerry would probably want of people...but the fact of the matter is he did not care who you were, what your social status was, he would take time out of his day and talk to you...he had a gift to make just everyday people feel comfortable around him. It always seemed as if he truly cared.

You may not agree with some of his political or religious beliefs...but to say he is a hateful man is simply ignorant. You are simply buying into the media as if everything they portray is real...

Jerry Falwell did far more good then many would like to give him credit for, that is for sure.

Anyway, JJ. Tell you what... while we're on the topic of Falwell's ghosts and demons....

You speak what you do in the name of a 'New-Song.'

Would it comfort you if I sang to you?

Or is this something else?

Heya, Lepi. Actually, it's a lot simpler than this:

"Why are you so concerned with who sucks whose what? Perhaps you're not getting enough yourself?"

The Eclation religion originated in prison, where no on e can make a distinction between loving and affectionate acts of homosexual people, and what straight men do to each other when it's all about dominance games.

To wit, JJ is just buggin' cause he can't control the world.

Tell us a new story, yadda, yadda.

I'm relieved. This essay is enough for me so I won't be BUYing the book. No one can possibly know Jerry Falwell better than Mrs Jerry Falwell.

Finally after all these years of searching I find a minister that did as Jesus directed:

Luke 18:22
Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

That Jerry Falwell followed Jesus is a given. Now I learn from the most reliable authority possible that he left the house each day, pockets filled with money, wearing a new coat and shoes only to return home bare backed, bare foot and penny less.

And, canceling consultations at the white house tells the dumbest where he sat on 'that' totem pole.

I am compelled to take back all the things I have said in the past about the ministry being a gold mine. At last, a true follower of the teachings of Jesus has been identified.

Mrs. Falwell,

I'm trying to find a way to say this without sounding hateful, because I don't doubt Rev. Falwell was a kind man to the people he loved. I also don't blame you for his transgressions.

On the other hand, nothing can change what he said and did in the name of god. Just as you ask us to understand that Jerry may not have been fairly treated by the media, please imagine how it feels to deeply, passionately love your country and be told that because you are not a conservative Christian, you are to blame for the worst crime ever committed on American territory: 9/11.

Furthermore, that crime was committed by religious extremists who, like Jerry Falwell, believed no one but those of their own faith should have any rights. Who did he blame, however? He blamed the non-religious and others in the U.S. who have argued against the kind of religious extremism that resulted in 9/11.

If you are just a graciously submitted wife who wants people to like her husband, you should let the book sell itself and hide yourself away with your Bible. If you are more than that, I dare you to take an honest look at the impact of your husband's work on the majority of Americans, whom your husband hated in the name of god.

For me, Falwell and all the evangelical preachers are loathsome because they believe the New Testament tells the truth about Jesus, when actually it obscures intentionally who he was and what he was intending. Christianity as we know it is a fraud.

I'm glad Mrs. Falwell decided to set the record straight. I never knew Rev. Falwell personally outside of his public record.

The thing is, there are lots of people who are different to their loved ones than the were to everyone else. Certainly, anybody has good and bad traits. Hitler hated the Jews, but I'm sure that he was well liked for his singing voice.

Sadly, you will only be known for how you portray yourself in public. While Rev. Falwell was a generous man to those who know him, he will still be the guy who did asinine things like trying to connect Vince Foster's murder to Bill Clinton and smearing the good name of Tinky Winky. People of true character should never try to be a different person to others.

Jerry Falwell was a hater, pure and simple, a hater who stands condemned by his own words, words uttered in hate on myriad occasions.

So, the Rev Falwell was kind to his family. Big deal. Most haters are kind to their immediate families. Most haters can even extend their sick ans selective form of "love" to those with whom they find agreement. But non-haters have the ability to see past their own cloistered view of the world and to embrace others who are not like them. Your husband was not one of these people.

Your husband's horrible reputation in the world is what it is of his own creation, and no amount of apology on your part will change that. Ever.

I am sorry that you and your family are saddled with his hateful legacy. Beyond that, it's what HE left you, not what the rest of us wished upon you.

BTW- it's shameful that the WaPo allows this blatant advertisement masquerading as a column to appear on this blog.

Sorry for your losss ma'am, but please understand, your loss is our GAIN.

He was a divisive and unpleasant figure, and NO that was not an impression formed by the media, but by your husband's own words and actions.

IF there is a God, Falwell is nowhere near him, nor does he deserve to be. A small, petty, selfish and hateful man, the world is a better place without him.

I guess I should not be surprised by the blatant hatred directed at Dr. Falwell in these comments. What you fail to realize is that the media is famous for taking people out of context to create scandal, because scandal sells.

As to the 9/11 comments, I agree 100% with his statement, and neither of us are blaming any particular people group or person. The point is that (as with Old Testament Israel), when we as a nation turned our back on God and decided to go against all of His mandates, we lost His protection on our nation and opened ourselves up to attack. Fortunately, as we can read in the Bible, we have simply to repent and turn back to God, and He is willing to forgive and heal our land.

Jerry Falwell always spoke the truth from God's Word. He did not talk out of both sides of his mouth like politicians do, but stood by what he believed, while continuing to love people on either side of the issues, which is exactly what God called Christians to do.

He was a great man of God and will be sorely missed.

JJ - Your photons have just about gone out.

Nowhere except in your mind is this identified as a straights-only forum. Only in your own imaginary kingdom are you the arbiter of who does and doesn't get to post.
I would suggest that you spend a little less time inside your own skull, but I'm still trying to figure out how you can be so much into your own head and simultaneously out of your mind.

Please show me where WaPo has a don't ask, don't tell policy regarding the sexual orientation of posters.

You don't think Paganism is a valid religion. You have the right to your opinion. And you know what they say about opinions...

Since marriage is not a natural event to begin with, same-sex marriage is no more a defiance of nature than hetero marriage is. Marriage is a social construct, and like other social constucts, is subject to change as societies evolve.

Please show me the post in which Arminius claims to be a pedophile. I won't hold my breath, because I don't look THAT good in purple. Also, he's a gay-friendly straight man. There are lots of us gay-friendly straight folks around.

Why are you so concerned with who sucks whose what? Perhaps you're not getting enough yourself?

He may have been a wonderful husband and a great father to his children, and he may have even turned to mush at the sight of a hungry puppy, but the public image he had, he created with comments like the one he made after 9/11.

The man made a career, nay - a life's work, out of demeaning and spreading ill will towards people like me and many of my friends and family.

Also, JJ, if you seem to believe Pagans are so irrelevant to an interfaith discussion in America, maybe you should absent yourself, by the same criteria: after all, Pagans outnumber you by some hundreds of thousands to one in this country, since there's only two or three of your lot. :)

Like, vis-a-vis JJ's ranting...

Were you aware that when a man teaches toxic virulence, all manner of folks might believe him?

Why is the Washington Post allowing this unpaid advertisement for a hagiographic book in this space?

Hrm, I dunno, Gavin, I guess I "forgive" him, doesn't change what he *did,* though.

Doesn't change that he was *as *wrong** as his yearly prophecies, and doesn't change that that maybe should have been a clue that even in his *own* world, maybe he didn't have the right to incite so much blindness and hatred, doesn't change that he apparently died without ever questioning what he was doing to real people...

Doesn't change what happened.
Doesn't change the lies and distortions and the incitement to hatred and blindness that lives on.

Forgiveness? Eh. Not terribly-relevant.

Someone else trying to spin it as 'really goodness and light?' Erase or justify what he did? Play it again and present it as 'Godly?'

Don't give me someone else to 'forgive,' Mrs Falwell.

I'm glad Dr.Falwell had a loving wife and family, and that he behaved lovingly toward them.

He did, however, make hateful statements about Catholics, lesbians, Jews, and many people he disapproved of. While I appreciate his generosity to some, and have always regarded him well for his defense of the unborn, he left an unfortunate mark on the nation with his support of execution and his inaccurate statements about other people's families.

He appears to have been fortunate in his wife and children and friends. It is too bad he didn't stay out of the political sphere, and that he didn't practice a bit more humility toward issues in which reasonable people of godly goodwill disagree.

As for the book, I'll watch my copy of the movie "Bob Roberts" instead.

Mrs. Falwell,

Your husband is an inspiration to those who embrace God's truth. I was just watching yesterday: don't worry, be happy and it reminded me of our everlasting love from our Father and I'm very thankful for those who are called to be shepherds of the Flock as your husband is. Lastly, I know w/out a doubt that you, your family and the flock know and live out this passage: 1In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: 2Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. 3For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. 5But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry. 6For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time has come for my departure. 7I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.

GOD BLESS YOU, YOUR FAMILY AND THE FLOCK!

LOVE, IN CHRIST....

To Anonymous: He was telling the truth. When you allow satan to run rampid in any area, he looses his devices and schemes and then further satanic attacks happen. And the hand of the LIVING GOD is lifted up off of whatever it was that God once held. So if God did have this country uplifted and in His hands things that the USA allows to go on willingly rather being ignorant, selfish, not caring or whatever, God has NO CONTROL of what happens. So don't blame God blame yourselves and the lack of faith in the CREATOR LIVING GOD that whatever HE told you to do you didn't do. That's not hate that's the Word of God. Read it for yourself with an open heart and mind. Not by what you once may have heard or learned but with a fresh ear to hear what the Spirit is saying to you.

You have my sympathy for your loss, but, as others have noted, your husband blamed *ME* for a terrible tragedy which I CLEARLY had absolutely nothing to do with. He did it because he didn't like people like *ME*.

I will not forgive him (or people who agree with him) for that.

The triune god killed himself in order to repair the flops of his creation... etc. etc.

There obviously is an upper limit of nonsense, from where on upwards it morphs into faith in "eternal truth". Incredible.

No wonder reason, which is the difference between animals and humans, is regarded as of Satan and has to be exterminated (Luther et alii).

MMrs Falwell: Please accept my sympathy for your loss. However, I must say the late Mr. Falwell, in my mind was a divisive and mean spirited influence and individual during his "ministry". He, and many others, simply preyed on individuals of weak mind. He spread hate in the name of religion. I would hope Mr. Falwell's Creator treats him better than the way Mr. Falwell treated and considered the vast majority of the Creator's creatures.

Jerry Falwell loved people, or power? I think it was the latter. He was a well known liar and con artist. Aside from being dishonest, he was certainly a hate monger. He blamed gays for the 911 attacks for example. You can try to lie about him, but really, isn't it just one more attempt to make money? Falwell was of no use whatsoever. He used his gifts to make other people's lives worse. He claimed to be a man of god, but he was only an opportunist, enriching himself on other's ignorance and hate.

After the September 11, 2001 attacks, Falwell said on The 700 Club, "I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America. I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen.'"

A long way to walk, America.

The man *blamed me for 9/11,* Madam.

His public statements were a constant voice of hate and defamation toward myself and so many people i know, it's not a matter of 'spin.'

Maybe he loved kittens, in his private life.
Doesn't change what he did.