"... [L]et's keep God at the center of our society". If we are interested in preserving the First Amendment -- in particular, if we are interested in preserving the Establishment Clause -- that is precisely what we will ***AVOID*** doing. The United States is, by deliberate design, a religious neutral, secular republic, not a theocracy.

Let's keep it that way.

JIM

"Many Christians lament what they see as the eviction of God from society...display some of the most unchristian behavior imaginable when expressing their displeasure over our culture’s Godlessness."

We can quote Gandhi here: "I like your Christ... your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

I have found this so often to be true. I could never figure out when Jesus started teaching intolerance and being judgemental first. Remember you damners and judgers (Hagee, Robertson, Falwell, listen closely here), before honor comes humility. This is something Christians of organized big money, glossy materialism, religion have forgotten or never read the words of their savior.

As one of the more senior citizens of this Republic, and as one who was fortunate enough to survive, relatively well, a Southern Baptist youth, I know longer listen to those who talk Christianity--I only watch those who do Christianity; those who live their lives as Jesus instructed in his commandments and in Matthew 26. Talk means nothing. Doing means everything.

...and we should also be expecting more from our citizens. People who vote should know why they're voting and they should become knowledgable about ALL the issues, not just "who claims to be Christian" - that in itself, is not enough and you know it. And once again, maybe a lesson of separation of state and church is in order for you Mr. Deem.

Speaking of Jesus People, a Loyal Bushie writes an article headlined "Bush Is a Lame Duck." It is impossible to post a Comment on his hate speech next to his article for some technical or other reason. But it may be appropriate to comment here in the Jesus Section. In response to the Deem piece, it is also important to point out that when one of the politicians is a criminal, or surrounds himself with operatives who are criminals, it is important that criminals are brought to justice. The Jesus People should be allowed to articulate as best they can their inability to understand liberal values -- but that does not mean they should be allowed to get away with stomping on liberals, while letting criminals get away, especially if they claim to be Christians.

I certainly am not defending Senator David Vitter(Republican)-style wh*remongering.

In reference to the "Bush is a Lame Duck" piece:

Those who equate speaking out against criminality with hatred will not be taken seriously by readers with any intelligence.

You can like Bush and enjoy debating his policies but when it comes to the criminality surrounding him, there can be no debate. They must be stopped.

With all due respect to ALL religions, I think it's time to follow the path of Abraham Lincoln, and separate religion from politics.

The most abhorrent, nasty, bigoted, self-interested behavior has been publicly displayed by those claiming to be strongly religious. It disgusts me and is certainly not in keeping with the beliefs of our Constitution's framers.

Jews, Muslims, Catholics, Baptists, Unitarians, Scientologists, whatever, all have the right to practice their beliefs. But trying to impose them or question them is wrong.

Let's keep our religions within our homes, our churches and our hearts..

Mary Atkinson

Yes indeed, the biggest story is about John McCain, the great War Hero Christian, still looking for his his war victory he never achieved in Vietnam and even a much bigger story about all his preferential
treatment and how the great Christian Callously left behind his first crippled first wife for a rich rodeo queen, beer heiress, prescription drug addict.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1024927/The-Wife-John-McCain-callously-left-behibde.html.

"Religion Poisons Everything" Hitchens.

Right on.

One of the finest human beings and a Catholic Priest once told our platoon in my Army days that if we behave in the way Christ would have us behave then few would take offense. I believe that!

So many "Christians" today find it necessary to be offensive in their desire to make everybody think inside their box.

Mr. Deem:
Citizens should ask whether a country deserves leaders who are exactly as good or bad as the citizens of the nation.
You ask that politicians and church leaders "display more discipleship and less derision, more Christ and less acrimony, more grace and less guile."

Could be as citizens, this must begin with us. Including the leaders in other fields, business, radio, tv, etc, who so often advocate disrespect and hate. And claim to be right. And christian?

"At Walker Marketing, our clients get much more than marketing services. They get our specialized perspective, a rich treasury of experience, understanding and artistry, all skillfully applied to the handling of their most valuable asset—their image."

I prefer substance to image.

I prefer the US Constitution at the center of American society.

Why can't people who "claim" to be Christians be more like Christ instead of "modeling" him. Substance instead of magnetic fish, and self-serving "public relations". If only Jesus Christ had an account representative to tailor his message, maybe he wouldn't have been crucified. "Claiming" to be a Christian is no more substantial than a flag pin on a lapel.

We have eight years of "image", smoke and mirrors. The round, balding man behind the curtain has refused a subpeona from the Congress of the United States. Render unto Caesar.

Bring back Border Radio so I can buy a Last Supper Tablecloth and a Holy Mother nutcracker.

If it requires "marketing services", you don't need it.

A Borned Again Christian will not support anyone that Suports abortions and gays.Study your bible.Men with men and women with women.And sheding innocent blood. R.S.

Dear John,
Thank you for your fine article "Expecting More From Our Candidates" & your testimonial. I've been disgusted over the years by those who self-righteously bash others in the name of Christianity! I've turned off the venomous media, & my co-workers who spout the venomous "talking points" from venomous media outlets. Many Christians are tired of those who look for the speck in another's eye, while blinded by the log in their own eye.

In Christ,

Scott Duncan,
Orange County, California

We have a president now who professes to be a Christian---
not only that, but he claims he gets advice directly from God,
which he proceeds to follow.

Look what a MESS this president has made of our country and
our standing in the world.

Do we really need a Christian of this type as president?

Our present president professes to be Christian, and not only that--- according to him he gets advice directly from God,
which he proceeds to follow.

Look what az

why does my firewall red on a government lookalike website on my space that advdertises for green card help www.usfis.org. some more of our tax money being wasted on stupid things instead of truthfull inforcement. please vote every body. if they do not represent the citizens of the united states that means they have been bought by a foreign country some possibilities, china, dubay, sauudi arabia, israel lobbying with our tax money we sent as aid, my last name is vipperman i know my anscetors so please dont embarress yourself by calling me an anti semite i am anti violence anti lies, and anti preying upon the poor maybe this is what you disagree with maybe. other possibilities japan russia i'm not sure we can lecture russia about free speech anymore with all the soviet style fbi letters being used now a days. didnt they predict they would take us from with in our own government back in the 1960s. its hard to tell who is who now adays some times paray for thjem and bring integrity and truth to your own doorstep and we willall have a government of the people and by the people agasin.. maybe even france who knows lol our polititian seam to be 4 sale to anyone but us but please check for truth

This is all very well, and of course each of us is entitled to vote however we like. The problem I have is: how do you know that you are voting like a Christian? How many different sects and branches of Christianity are there? And each of them seems pretty sure that they are the correct interpretation of Christ's words and deeds. So while I might at a stretch agree with the premise of the article, it doesn't actually get me very far.

Christianity was born in iniquity and conceived in sin.

Athena wrote, "Like it or not, Jews, Pagans, atheists, Muslims, Buddhists, Scientologists, Hindus, etc. are here to stay. Deal with it."

Nice Christian attitude???? Well guess what “we the people” can choose to deal with whatever or whoever “we” want, like it or not!

Someone much wiser than I once said Christianity is not a religion but a love affair. I am a Christian because I love Jesus Christ and God. Because of that love I have developed a love for other people. Paul once wrote: "anyone who says they love God and calls their brother (another person) a fool is a liar." Those candidates who call themselves Christians and then indulge in dirty politics bring same upon God, Jesus, and the rest of the faith. How could anyone do that if they really loved Jesus?

I agree. But how does one say they're a christian and support war and torture? I wish noone said if they were a christian or not. We'll know by what things they stand for and how they live their lives. Separation of church and state was there for a reason. A very good reason.
Most of the so-called christians I know just like the label.

the more i hear and see of these modern day christians, the more i begin to doubt my own faith. even platitudes like the ones in this column begin to grate. thirty plus years of pious, self righteous horse crap. why in hell can't we simply consider a person's beliefs (or lack of them) his business until such time as he starts frightening the horses or offending the peace and dignity of the state?

Well said! This issue of a Christian's role in the political arena is close to my heart and I'm currently involved in a church project on the subject. I wonder if it's OK to distribute copies of this article?

"In my 35 years of life experience, I have thus-far concluded that professed Christians are one of the least Christ-like groups that exist."

It's been my experience that people who express this opinion probably don't hang out with too many Christians. You general see in people what you want to see in them.

As to the topic at hand...let's face it, Christians need to let the culture wars go. Christianity is about individuals giving themselves over to the bridge that is Jesus, and trying in vain to live-up to his example. The modern-day televangelists are more like the Pharisees than like Christ. Christianity has never been about the law. It's high time we quit passing judgement, and start spreading compassion.

This comment is not specific only to the original article, but is relevant to it none-the-less.

In my 35 years of life experience, I have thus-far concluded that professed Christians are one of the least Christ-like groups that exist.

The combination of a moralistic superiority complex and a dogmatic, absolutist application of religious rules (including on many vital and complex social issues) has overtaken the desire to emulate Christ's compassion and open-mindedmess.

Where this relates to Christian candidates is that they need to make what I see as a clear choice - follow Christ's examples but potentially break some of the conservative Christian rules, or follow the rules and conservatism of the church and ironically end up behaving not the slightest bit like Christ would.

The former is the right choice, whereas the latter is the vote-winner.

ATHENA has apoint (which I'm suprised PAGANPLACE didn't pick up on as well)

The Constitution is the center of American society. True, by population, the majority of Americans are Christian but the Constitution is to protect the minority from the tyrrany of the majority. The Christian 10 comandmants do not belong in any public school or court of law. Christian civic morality, and even the morality of law may be based on that in a mostly Christian society, but the RULE of law is not.

Although a very faithful and spiritual Heathen (to quote Black Elk: The Holy Land is everywhere), I do not believe that a candidate's religion has any place in politics whatsoever. That is not to say that politics does not belong in The Church - who am I to define what people do in their private places of worship, even when 'private' may mean tens of thousands of people at one service?

Once the candidate asks for MY vote, asks me to surrender - if mostly symbolically - self-rule and personal authority, and asks that same authority to be equally applied to everyone regardless of race, religion, class or creed, THEIR personal religion no longer applies.

That's the great trade-off of the American Republic, isn't it? We're a nation of Laws, not of Men? You can support someone because they are a Christian and espouse similar values to your own, but the enforcement of those values through religious convention and dictation in public forum (schools and courts) ends at the Sunday service.

Wow, your organized religion folks sure do like to complicate things...

Christ is NOT the center of American society. The Constitution is. It guarantees those of us who do not follow Christianity the same rights as those who do. Even Jesus said to "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's."

Like it or not, Jews, Pagans, atheists, Muslims, Buddhists, Scientologists, Hindus, etc. are here to stay. Deal with it.

From the author:

Thanks to all for your comments. A large chunk was edited from the middle of the piece, which might add some context. Here it is:

---

Sadly, though, the election-year din is an echo of the percussive politics practiced by church leaders.: the late Rev. Jerry Falwell declaring the 9/11 attacks as God’s retribution against heathen non-Christians, pro-choicers, homosexuals and feminists; Catholic leaders advising parishioners not to show up for communion if they support pro-choice candidates; and more recently, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright’s damning of America, Jews, Italians.

The vitriol has raised the temperature here in North Carolina and within my Baptist denomination. It certainly was the case four years ago when the pastor of a Baptist church in Waynesville ousted nine members of the congregation for supporting Sen. John Kerry over George W. Bush in the presidential election. The pastor resigned and the nine returned, but much of the congregation’s younger population followed the wayward leader and left the church.

Then last year, the North Carolina Baptist State Convention expelled Myers Park Baptist Church in Charlotte because it knowingly accepted openly gay members. The Convention’s action was in response to its 2006 declaration that gay members are unacceptable in the organization’s churches.

When the Convention first passed its latest attempt at denominational cleansing, I considered the action an affront to the message Christ preached, the life he lived, and the grace his death and resurrection offers us all. After all, Christians – regardless of our individual views on the morality of homosexuality – are quick to accept grace when God bestows it on us as individuals, but often reluctant to extend the same in our relationships with others.

Despite my personal revulsion, though, I struggled with what the denomination’s declaration meant to my church and to my role as an elected leader in our congregation, until I finally concluded that continued association with the Convention amounted to our tacit approval of the policy. When I told my pastor I was ready to recommend our withdrawal from the Convention, he responded with the wisdom I’ve so come to treasure in him.

Instead of allowing ourselves to be provoked by the Convention, he counseled, why not just continue to serve God unapologetically as we feel called. When that obedience leads to something unacceptable to the Convention, the burden to react will be on the organization, which will be exposed as Pharisaical if and when it chooses to throw us out.

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces.” (Jesus in Matthew 23:13)

When the Convention did boot Myers Park Baptist last year for allowing openly gay members, I was heartened when my own pastor addressed the issue simply by standing before our congregation and declaring, “I would welcome anyone seeking membership.”

And that was it. No regurgitation of the already-overplayed spat. No personal attack on Convention leaders who had backed the amendment. No lesson on Hypocrites in History. Just a single sentence that declared his Christ-centered stance and effectively isolated the Convention.

What if our political candidates and their operatives approached their business the same way? What if they were motivated by what sets them apart rather than tearing apart their opponents? What if candidates were forced to prove they were best-qualified for the job, rather than just not as bad as their opponents?

And why don’t Christians – beginning with myself – demand the same conduct from our church and political leaders that Christ modeled for us? ...

While it's perhaps an admirable sentiment, I can't help but notice that these sort of 'Ahhh, they're *all equally bums and equally-corrupt*' sort of talks tend to come out when the candidate least-right-wing-style-smear-using and/or actually hasn't been shown to have some shady dealings is
...err, winning.

It's voter negation, I think, all too often. 'Voter Depression tactics' I sometimes call them.

I think it's pretty clear who's been most elevated in these regards, he just happens to be the least Bible-thumping of the candidates we've been looking at these past few months.

John Deem wrote, "What if our political candidates and their operatives were motivated by what sets them apart rather than tearing apart their opponents?" Jesus of Nazareth proclaimed both ("I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life..." and "[the Pharisees] are like whitened sepulchers...") We Christians are called to humbly follow Jesus' example, and should speak only the truth - with malice toward none and with charity for all.

Very thoughtful proposal, but ultimately self-contradictory.

From a New Testament perspective, when Christians use their enormous power to rule over others (no matter the good intentions), they cease to be Christians and become Romans.

From a constitutional perspective, the whole framework of American Democracy and the First Amendment really depends on Christian restraint and respect for a pluralistic society. I think that means Churches maintaining a respectful distance from politics.

As we've seen with the Evangelical Republican movement, when Christians seize the levers of power at any level of government, they are capable of destabilizing the First Amendment traditions quite rapidly, whether it be mandating the teaching of Genesis in high school biology, or insisting on "Christian" law as the underpinning of our legal system (and all that that would lead to).

As the Republican Evangelicals have also demonstrated, Christians are just as capable as the next guy of being corrupted by power. I'm afraid it is not a coincidence that the most Biblical Congress in history was also the most indicted Congress in history.

Tom Boyer

When I say "more of this" I am referring to the article, of course, not to some of the comments below!

Wow!
We need more of this! Much more!

Since you have professed a belief in the supernatural, please tell us how many supernatural creatures you believe in. Please be specific. The Washington Post has expressed a desire for an honest discussion of religion. Fine. This should be easy for you. How many? And a brief description of each. Thank you.

How incredible that a lay person has to deliver the message of what being a Christian has been all about for 2000 years, but that in the context of modern American Christianity, is innovative and radical. Imagine--being a Christian is about you and how you live your life, not about your judgment of how other people are leading their lives. And God gave us the 10 Commandments to live by, not just to paste on the schoolhouse wall and carve in granite on the courthouse lawn.

Let's hope that message is received and acted on, before American Christianity follows the European example and turns into a burnt out case.

AMEN!

In 7th grade catholic convent boarding school, Sr. Mary Ellen slammed down my catechism test paper and shouted at me--THE CHURCH IS NOT A DEMOCRACY!! After 7 years of pounding the church principles into my head, her intro to civics had totally confused me about both. I actually thought that the shame of divorce was that the kids parents broke the law. I thought God's laws and america's were the same.

I think there are alot of people in this country who continue to believe this. I just wish they had the forsight to see that they do not want gov't involved with their churches. I think some of them are just now learning this. Bush has been the perfect example of the damage that govt and political influence can do to a church. The churches lost way more these last 8 years than the republican party. They lost the high ground which is where they belong.

Funny how hard it is to get a Christian to act like a Christian.

Seems to me it has been the Christian Conservatives in this country that have given us the worst example of morally bankrupt thinking and behavior and politics. George W. Bush is exhibit A.

Try modeling yourself on the Buddha, Christians, you'd have a lot better luck.

Watch for the most UnChristian behavior to come from the racist section of the Christian base.

Shine a light!

Ann Coulter is a pig, period.

Now, on to more relevant things. If you feel you are letting God down by participating in the Democratic process, then by all means do not particpate. You will be doing the United States of America a great service. Unfortunately, the "culture of life" and other quasi-christian entities who hide behind a crucifix have particpated quite loudly in the political process over the past 8 years and their efforts have resulted in:

(1). thousands of dead American soldiers;

(2). thousands more maimed for life;

(3). mass destruction of the environment, which they cutely refer to as a "resource";

(4). murder and destruction of family planning clinics in medically underserved communities;

(5). massive financial fraud perpetrated upon the poor and uneducated who are so forcefully told by the John Hagee's of the world that they can buy their way into heaven by giving their assets to evangelical preachers;and so, and so on, and so on ....

While you're having such angst about letting God down, you might think about some of these things as potential reasons .... but then again, that could cause you not to become "perfected", wouldn't it?

Ann Coulter is a pig, period.

Now, on to more relevant things. If you feel you are letting God down by participating in the Democratic process, then by all means do not particpate. You will be doing the United States of America a great service. Unfortunately, the "culture of life" and other quasi-christian entities who hide behind a crucifix have particpated quite loudly in the political process over the past 8 years and their efforts have resulted in:

(1). thousands of dead American soldiers;

(2). thousands more maimed for life;

(3). mass destruction of the environment, which they cutely refer to as a "resource";

(4). murder and destruction of family planning clinincs in medically underserved communities;

(5). massive financial fraud perpetrated upon the poor and uneducated who are so forcefully told by the John Hagee's of the world that they can buy their way into heaven by giving their assets to evangelical preachers;and so, and so on, and so on ....

While you're having such angst about letting God down, you might think about some of these things as potential reasons .... but then again, that could cause you not to become "perfected", wouldn't it?

Au contrare. The fault lies with the type of people who become political Christians. Sociology surveys have consistently shown that people embrace religion for two main reasons: 1) because they feel that it is expected of them and their church is an important part of their social world, or 2) because they enjoy the feeling of being "right" and identifying others outside of their ingroup as being "wrong." The latter reason is obviously far more disturbing than the former, as it strongly suggests that a large percentage of Christians become Christian specifically so that they can feel superior to non-Christians, and so they can use the rules of the Christian belief system to exclude and denigrate others - not a exactly a sentiment that Christ would approve of, I think.

AMEN!

"Yet so many of these same people – who profess their faith in a savior who declared that nothing we do is more important than loving God and loving each other, and that “all the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments" – display some of the most unchristian behavior imaginable when expressing their displeasure over our culture’s Godlessness."

I've wondered this for a long time. I think it's precisely because "...nothing we do is more important that loving God..." I've known too many Christians who think that God will forgive them for anything and anything they do is acceptable to God because they love him and he loves them.

Christians were created perfect, as Ann Coulter explained to us, "No, we just want Jews to be perfected, as they say. ... That's what Christianity is. We believe the Old Testament, but ours is more like Federal Express. You (meaning the Jews) have to obey laws."

If we are perfected then everything we do is perfect no matter how mean, nasty, or cruel. We have the FedEx overnight delivery to God's doorstep. We (meaning Christians) don't have to follow the laws.

You can see how this logic leads down the road to treating others uncivilly. The fault lies not in the stars (or in this case, in Christianity) but in ourselves.