All Comments (44)

nice read-insightful

I read Rena's book, and found it very informative.
The practice of "home churches" is becoming very
popular to day. This program, known as "cells",
for the most part is "woman led" Our church had the program for several years-we called them
"FOLD" Meetings. FOLD is an acronym for, Fellow-ship, Outreach, LOve, and Descipleship. We sponsored a FOLD at our home, and included some of our neighbors. As the old hymn says:, Give
Me That Ol' Time Religeon?.

Joe Newsom

NEAL

Goes to show you that sometimes the amount of words devoted to something or someone is not what is important but what the words say and mean.

We are all important in God's Plan and only God knows exactly how His Plan fits together, after all He is God and we are not, we are all made in His Image but only God Is God.

Without Mary's YES, there would be no God-Incarnate. Thank You, Mary.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

not so young Catholic woman:

Thanks for your reply. I am familiar with those passages, but I don't see as how they indicate she was a leader in the same sense as were the women mentioned in the article.

If Mary was so important to the early church, one would think that we would know much more about her and her activities. For instance, as you correctly point out, she is mentioned by name only once in the non-Gospel NT books. Paul never mentions her by name, in any context, and seems to barely even acknowledge her existence. Apparently, we don't know when she died, where she died or, even, if she died. Again, we seem to know much more about other personages who were far less important than the one who was, even in the earliest days of the church, believed to be nothing less than the actual mother of God incarnate.

As Not So Young Catholic Woman put it, "Thank God for Mary's YES".

And another Mary, Mary Magdalene, is referred to in the Catholic Church as the "Apostle to the Apostles".

If it was not for Mary's "YES" freely given, there would have been no Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews.

Yes, we have free will and I firmly believe that we, like Mary, can say "YES" to God when we are chosen.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Excellent work, as usual. You shine a light on an important and often overlooked topic - not just in this article, but throughout your book The Lost Apostle. Thank you

I would concur that our mothers are seldom given the credit due in being the ones more concerned with our spiritual and emotional wellbeing, particularly on an individual basis. It is not difficult to believe that women would be the ones who sustained the faith. Even Paul's most beloved helper, Timothy inherited the faith from his mother, Eunice and grandmother, Lois. As a deacon of a Baptist church, I am sometimes baffled at the logic that relegates women to a second tier of service. Kudos for the reminder.

Chuck Newsom

There was an historical Jesus and there was an historical mother and father of Jesus i.e. Mary and Joseph. Once this reality is accepted and the mumbo jumbo of virgin births, holy spirit impregnators, atonement theology, original sin and triune spirits is finally put on the myth pile, a proper appreciation of Mary and Jospeph can be made, an appreciation equivalent to that for our own mothers and fathers.

Such reality also eliminates the need for priests so having female priests becomes a mute point.

Added reality:

Jesus was an illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter/ simple preacher man who suffered from hallucinations and who has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a mamzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). Analyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists) via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics. earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

For added "pizzazz", Catholic/Christian theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

Luther, Calvin, Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley et al, founders of Christian-based religions, also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

What a nice treat for Mom's Day. Miss your wrtiing in the DMNEws.

Let us all go back to the future!

The VATiCAN & Their CATHOLiCS (Hitler etc..) Are from the MOTHER OF HARLOTS! Pagan Low LiFES!

Not ordaining women to priestly ministry, keeping women in their place as second class members is the greatest failure and the greatest sin our church is committing.

American focus TOO MUCH on religion.

It has becoming superstitious and annoying.

What painting is in your first page?
Duccio?

What painting is in your first page?
Duccio?

Is there any scientific, or historic, truth to the mechanisms reported in the Davinci Code on WHY women has been degraded in the Christian faith.

What is said in that book on this subject seem so plausible to me. Since I do not have much knowledge of religious history, I find it to be a deficiency in the article that the REASONS for why women was (still is evidently) treated as they are in our western culture, is not dealt with in any depth - if at all.

I am from Norway and women have come longer here than many other places. I also lived in USA for a while and it is incredible to me to hear priest explain WHY women cannot be priests etc - ref also the principal letter from the last pope on this issue.

A pity for an otherwise excellent article
Bernt

What a ridiculous article. Not only does Ms. Pederson completely ignore the Theotokos (which has been mentioned several times) she ignores all the female martyrs to the faith, female theologians, and other Holy Saints.

Sad evidence of the rot in modern Protestant scholarship.

Joe whines: "The literal interpretation of scripture that keeps women from the priesthood"

Not only is this wrong, it is a bit ironic to see a protestant complaining about "literal interpretations of the scripture"

As for the tradition, was Christ male?

Were the 12 disciples male?

It is also ironic that protestants complain about lack of respect for women when they have very little theological respect for the Mother of Christ.

Don't get me started of the hundreds of female saints and role models in the Church that are absent from other religions.

People like to attack the Church because the truth is a difficult thing to be reminded of...

Neal:

You asked Young Catholic Woman of evidence that Mary the Mother of Christ was involved as a Church leader. One need look no further than the evidence found in John 19:25-28, where Jesus "gives" his mother Mary to the disciple John, known to Catholics as St. John the Evangelist. The Bible states that "From that hour the disciple took her into his home," so we know that Mary was present in the early evangelization because she was with John, who went to Ephesus to preach the Good News. Also, if you look at Acts 1-2, you will find that on Pentecost (which Catholics celebrate as the birth of the Catholic Church) the Holy Spirit came upon the disciples and Mary. Mary actually was THERE when the Church was founded. You can't be much more of a Church leader than that. Oh, yes! You can! You can, though completely human (which Catholics believe), give birth to the Son of God for the Salvation of the world. Thanks be to God for Mary's "yes."

There is no man or woman in Christ. Not ordaining women on an equal basis with men is not the Word of God, but the sin of mankind.

The literal interpretation of scripture that keeps women from the priesthood is the same view that defended slavery as being ordained by God.

I am proud to be a Methodist and attend a church led by a woman as senior pastor.

This article has an agenda: to complain about the Catholic Church and to suggest women to be ministers. It is a bad article, historywise because it does not mention The Woman, Mary the Mother of Christianity. It was written with ill intentions and published by a newspaper that hates Christianism. It did not fool anyone. I am never again acessing this newspaper.

This article has an agenda: to complain about the Catholic Church and to suggest women to be ministers. It is a bad article, historywise because it does not mention The Woman, Mary the Mother of Christianity. It was written with ill intentions and published by a newspaper that hates Christianism. It did not fool anyone. I am never again acessing this newspaper.

Boy, do you ever miss the boat!! Mother's Day is to remember all mothers, not just mothers who share your narrow beliefs.

We should honor for any woman who has given a child guidance, nuture, compassion and unconditional love. Her religious beliefs or disbeliefs should have no bearing on the respect and honor we celebrate today.

Bill

My comment was the second on this thread and it has since disappeared. Now testing

An excellent article by Rena Pederson rememberig the "mothers of the church" who nutured its growth and development just as loving mothers nurture their own children.

Looks like the author of the article is trying to be "controversial" to schlep her book.

"Da Vinci Code, Bloodline, Tomb of Jesus, Judas revealed, the Gnostic gospels" etc. etc. etc.

Typical of these religious provocateurs...when does this trend end?

Then again, these snakeoil sales men (women) make money for publishers...

(Catholic prayer for Mary)

Hail, holy Queen, Mother of Mercy!

Our life, our sweetness, and our hope!
To thee do we cry, poor banished
children of Eve, to thee do we send
up our sighs, mourning and weeping
in this valley, of tears

Turn, then, most gracious advocate,
thine eyes of mercy toward us; and
after this our exile show unto us the
blessed fruit of thy womb Jesus;
O clement, O loving, O sweet virgin Mary.

Pray for us, O holy Mother of God

That we may be made worthy of the
promises of Christ.

In early times only men (the strongest) were permitted to learn to read and write, hence the
early writings were by men and only men were given any importantce in what became religions.
This is evidenced by the their assumption that God had to be male (what need would there be for God to have any gender, with no need to reproduce and no mention of his "female" counter part.) Instead of God creating man in "his image", early man created God in man's image. Men have run all of the world's religions, hence, all of the important characters remain male. The only chance for female importance would be if the women started their own religion. Hey, that idea might catch on!

Why did the post remove the comments by "young catholic women"?

Too much truth for ya?

The Washington post is an anti-catholic rag --- one that hates the catholic church but loves the neo conservatives (and the Iraq war).

As for women in the church, they play a very important role; however, men and women have different roles to play - different but equally important.

On another article, the Washington post uses the 75 years of the Catholic worker movement to attack the church.

The WAPO always focuses on any possible negative "news" they can find with Catholics - I am sure Hitler used the same tactics on the Jewish community.

As another poster said, anti-catholicism is the anti-semitism of the left.

The status of women is a cultural issue. The lack of culture in the political world generally regulated by states does tend to intrude on those matters which consider Family orintation. That of which originates in the home.
When we reflect upon our struggle to become more inclusive of the woman then we realize that the such individuality is pulled both ways. That of work or of childbirth. Which may alienate root causes.

Hi:Your article about the early mothers of the church is very interesting & I agree with most
of your views.
However, what is your factual documentation that
the early church had women presbyters,that is
priests?
Sincerely,
Richard Lietz
Downers Grove, IL

Rena Pederson:

Excellent article. I was raised and educated as a Catholic and was never taught the roles of these women in the early church. One wonders how many other women have been edited out of the story of the early church over the centuries.

Young Catholic Woman:

It seems Ms. Pederson was attempting to focus on the roles of women *other* than Mary in her article. It seems odd that you would jump to the conclusion that she was being anti-Catholic. Must all other Christians hold to the Catholic claims of Mary's near divinity to avoid such labeling? Can you refer me to any passages in the Bible where Mary's role as a church leader is detailed? Or, is that another one of the assumptions about her?

You wrote: "I find it offensive and hurtful that anyone would use the distribution of the Holy Eucharist (to Catholics, the actual body and blood of Christ) to advance a political cause. Whether that cause is political in the secular sense - say, a presidential candidate, or in a church sense, it has NO place at the distribution of the Eucharist."

Do you also find it offensive that some of your bishops have used strict adherence to a particular political position as a requisite for *receiving* communion by Catholic political candidates? How is the threat of the very public denial of that all-important sacrament to those persons--based solely on their opposing political views-- not attempting to advance a political cause? In that these bishops were likely instrumental in electing and re-electing George Bush, do you think they should bear a disproportionate share of the blame for the continuing Iraq debacle? Any claims that the RC Church also abhors that loss of innocent life rings hollow until such time as Catholics are also warned that their salvations may be imperiled for supporting that war, as they are so warned by the NCCB on the issue of abortion.

Vales:

Before you imply that critics of the RC Church are as bad as anti-semites perhaps you should read the article entitled "Jews (As a Religion)" in the New Advent Online Catholic Encyclopedia to see how real anti-semites behaved.

"(The Church) would have died" without women? That may have been a good thing. Why did women support a repressive and hate-filled Christian Church? Or did they?

AMEN! An enlightening exhortation. Pederson speaks persuasively about gender prejudice in our churches where there should in fact be none. Preach it, Sister!

Muslim Woman says:
"Having been raised Catholic and having later converted to Islam, it's interesting to note that there really weren't many women role models in early Christianity. In Islam, on the other hand, there were many strong women who are still known and loved by all Muslims today, and many girls are still named after them".

All those names mentioned by Ms Pederson are not enough according to you? Does that imply that there were many more in Islam? Why ddidn't you list the names of some of those "strong Muslim women"? You listed only one name and it was for the mother of Jesus who is the farthest from being a follower of your "prophet".

Dear Sally, as cofounder (is that the most accurate description)your hatefulness and lack of knowledge with regard to religion is manifest. your singling out of th Catholic church is dicriminatory and deserves to be prosecuted under tort law in court.

I really enjoyed this article. I love learning a little about early church history and this was a nice way to tie it with the spirit of the day. Thank you!

Having been raised Catholic and having later converted to Islam, it's interesting to note that there really weren't many women role models in early Christianity. In Islam, on the other hand, there were many strong women who are still known and loved by all Muslims today, and many girls are still named after them.

And one of the best women, according to the Prophet Muhammad, was Mary (Maryam), the mother of Jesus (Iesa, peace be upon him), who has a whole chapter in the Quran named after her.

Typical of the ignorant and inconsistant thinking of dear Sally's leadership you condem a church without giving its title for achieveing success at doing what it does best.

You people are reallly street thugs and muggers hiding behind your hateful thinking.

Happy Mother's Day, I don't believe you know what it means.

These Christians! They take a nice Jewish girl and let her get raped by the Holy Spirit. What baloney.

the Holy Spirit should be prosecuted.

Having been raised Catholic and having later converted to Islam, it's interesting to note that there really weren't many women role models in early Christianity. I can think of Mary, the mother of Jesus, and Mary Magdalene. In Islam, on the other hand, there were many strong women who are still known and loved by all Muslims today, and many girls are still named after them.

And one of the best women, according to the Prophet Muhammad, was Mary (Maryam), the mother of Jesus (Iesa, peace be upon him), who has a whole chapter in the Quran named after her.

Holy Mother of God!

What a slanted article, with very little substance and a glaring omission. Where is Mary, Mother of Jesus, in this article? At every Mass I attend (and not just on Mothers Day) we have the example of Mary on full display, along with her crucified Son, and we are reminded of her purity and discipline of faith ALWAYS.

Most of the great female Saints that I am aware of weren't "preachers" or "teachers", rather like Mary they were disciplined in their faith, and followed wherever God lead them. St. Monica comes immediately to mind; she didn't "preach", she simply prayed for the conversion of her son (Augustine, Bishop and Saint, eventually) and husband.

I see the wonderful work of dedicated and faithful women in my parish daily. In fact, they are deeply involved in virtually every ministry in our Church. Because they aren't priests doesn't dimish their role in any manner; they are the REAL saints among us.

And to "Young Catholic Girl": thank you for your post.

It is not that men are against women in church leadership positions, in my case, it is that I was ignorant about their sustaining roles in the early church. This article has changed my mind about women in church leadership. Thank God.