All Comments (237)

Irshan, I admire your quest.
But Qran is a book of hatred, and Islam is a soul sickness, not a religion.
To be honest, you will eventually have to leave islam.
Like Ibn Waraq and others.
They said, quote:
"one day we understood, that we have to choose between islam and humanity. We chose humanity" (quote not literal)
I am sure you know:
secularislam.org
best wishes
Piotr form Poland

Dear Irshad,
You are on the target when you say there are plenty of positive passages in Quran.This implies that there are many other passages that ought to be deleted from it. If Muslim countries did that and followed Turkey's example of outlawing Islamic parties the world can yet become a peaceful place

hey Pete, you are a genius in that you take the time to say it right. i thank you for that.
and what dedication as posts continue days after the article was published.from you and from everyone else

my thanks to everyone opposed to Manji. bottom line is: she's not doing America any favors.

my thanks to supporters of Manji: i'm sure she's a decent woman and I'm glad to have her in the US- land of opportunity

my thanks to Arabs and Muslims for coming: enjoy freedom to complain. it's good for you to complain. complain enough and you'll learn that things aren't all that bad. Welcome to the West

my thanks to Imams and Extremists for nothing

I'm of fighting age, I don't want to die in the desert.
But sooner or later, there will be another world war or something like it. Pain is the natural catalyst and product of change. and change is inevitable. and there is plenty of pain to go around.

The Islam religion is BORING, how could any movie made about Islam be any less? Islam is based on flawed doctrine. Hagar was the mistress of Abram NOT his wife and God said, "From your own body shall come your heir." Now if the muslim doesn't believe what God said about man and woman becoming ONE FLESH when they get married then they can discount Sara, Abram's wife. But God Himself recognized what He taught and that Isaac was the heir of Abram NOT Ismael. (Now considering how badly the Arabs treat their women, but thats another story.)

I think most people who have read details about Muhammad,the founder of Islam,are impressed. The man had remarkable skills in using the carrorts and sticks approach needed to unite the Arabs. But along the way he also murdered innocent people, stole their land and other property, used children for sexual purposes, kept slaves, did not prohibit the larger crime of slaverowning but banned the showing of female hair and that does say much for his sense of priorities.

Why should non-Muslims or even Muslims be required to respect this man and be banned from drawing images of him?

Would Muslims obey nazis if nazis asked them to respect Hitler and not draw images of Hitler?

I am sure you know what Wilders message was,
You like good verses in Koran to be referenced, what about the bad ones and there is alot of them!
He adviced you to tear them off for Muslim to reconcile with the rest world population!
His message is clear, do not try to twist facts!!!!!

I agree with your over all view Irshad about FITNA...I clearly got more from OBSESSION an the roots of Radical Islam....

Here's the problem...no one would of been able to see a more in depth film. Just look at the response to this snippet of a film like FITNA and the PROTEST by organized by Radical Islam followers... Even Obsession was not seen by 95% of Americans FOXNEWS SPECIALS with E.D.Hill trying her best & Glenn Beck was only able to show the cut version 17 minutes of OBSESSION not the full 27 minute version and alot news outlets blew it off in America becuase they were afraid of the response now thats a TRAVISTY with out showing the roots of the Muslim Brotherhood an the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem Al Hussein's connection with Hitler well documented through video an documents an how Iran is using the same model of the Hitler Youth Program....Its not by chance Iran Goose STEP'S today...an give the Hitler Salute while doing it...an upping it by one more step Shahid's suicide bombers an brainwashing their youth to do it....

I witnessed a dead body in the streets of Brookline Mass during MUNICH supposedly it was a assassination a Arab an J.D.L. assassin allegedlly....the secret war that took place here where 51+ Arabs were assassinated allegedly by Meir Kahane which led to his assassination in the Streets of New York one night by an Arab man...
Richard Boucher of the State Dept during Desert Storm announced during a Press Conference they had issued a warrant for the alleged Assassin to Israel....

Like Churchill i have been warning people what was come to this country eventually WTC 93 AN 9/11 .....Personally being half Sicilian i love the saying for VEGAS what happens in Vegas stays in VEGAS unfortunately that doesn't happen in the Middle East...I hate hearing about who started what when...between the Muslims an Jewish people....I just have to look at Saladin an see how he killed his own Muslims to grab countries and power and then their is the Richard the Lion Heart whole another story...but the Jewish people did the same too in their History so didn't we in the Civil War an the TORRES who sided with the British against their own people THE MINUTEMEN..
Personally i believe they all act like Organized Crime families THE MOB oh some of the families will work together when it suits their purpose but when thecodont need you YOU GET WACKED...the old saying THE ENEMY OF MY ENEMY IS MY FRIEND...I have a document from the National Archives declassified that shows that Usamah met with the Iranian Revolutionary Guard August 21-22nd 1999 an made a Pact to take down the United States an wallah we got Hizbollah taking blowing up the Khobar Towers.

People here like the British at the beginning of the 1930's when Churchill started to warn them about Hitler an the Nazis they choose to ignore him an believe Neville Chamberlains efforts an cheered Neville when he arrived home with a Peace Agreement from Hitler allowing Hitler to take land that was not his....an 6 months later Hitler had his own version of the PEACE AGREEMENT a Piece of this! an Piece of that! an marched through Poland...an any where else he wanted to...

I trust President Ahmadinejad as far as i can thrown him....he is the AntiChrist as far as I'm concerned...an with his allegiance with Russia China North Korea an Venezuela America is in deep trouble...an so isn't Canada with all the Saudis Millions in Radical Islamic literature they are sending into Toronto.....an the new Mosque a few miles away....I know all about Abdul Khadar and his dad The Father of Al Qaeda an his family ties to Toronto an terrorism....

Americans dont care? just look at N.O.W. we had 3,000 Sharia Incidents in Minneapolis Minnesota not a word from them on Women's Rights most Americans are sheep or cows ready to be taken to the slaughter to market as the London Cleric Al Masri says a.k.a. The Hook the one eyed cleric says you have a right to take Kuffar to Market if you cant get money for him...

I do pray to god your efforts an others hopefully work becuase otherwise we are heading for a Global War where its all or nothing win loose or draw...between the Iran, Russia, China. North Korea, Venezuela against the United States an other who may come to our aid....Thank God we got a New French President who vows to fight Radical Islam instead of that corrupt one that was taking IRAQI OIL FOR FOOD VOUCHERS an making millions you use to say from Iraq to Chirac take them all down...Russia, China, they were all taking from the OIL FOR FOOD PROGRAM an re-supplying Saddam with arms an weapons New MIGS, FRENCH JETS AN ATTACK HELICOPTERS breaking U.N. Sanctions.....there was even Russian Adviser's on the radar Installations on the ground the day we drove our forces into Baghdad....just like in Vietnam with Russians in SAM SITES....nothing changes the Bears an Dragons an now Camels are trying to tear down the United States....Its bigger than just fighting Radical Islam its also about global resources....an money an power an land...

Americans cant be bothered in my opinion we are to busy with feeding our 7 Deadly Sins...to pay attention to the rest of the world....and have become weak like previous peoples an countries who have gone down through the centuries but its setting up more like the 1930's but way bigger in scope...Nuclear options are on the table....this time in a big way....

I still have some Faith that we will wake up an see the threats before its to late....Its just not about Radical Islam...but its the beginning of the end for the United States if people dont get a clue soon....

I hate to be so doom an gloomy but FITNA really doesnt mean much to the real picture of whats happening to my concerns the United States an its people. The Dutch are weak.....and will fold as quick as a lawn chair if Muslim Violence takes place in a Big Way there in the Netherlands in whole an the E.U. becuase of liberal Fascism....

I tell the sheep here its their duty to watch OBSESSION to get a true grasp on the Muslim Brotherhood an the roots of Radical Islam but like i said its bigger than that...and Americans cant be bothered...

I know what your doing an your an angel that has been sent to try to quell the evil an make right human rights for women...and Irshad you will always be remembered for your attempts an achievements i truly do appreciate your commitment an putting your life on the line....
Peace an Love to you women.... :) with good speed you shall break the barriers of greatness with your efforts...take care
Pete,
~>:{>

The basic issue I see in this is a belief some people have to throw mud at others. By spreading hate what are we getting. We denounce Usama bin Laden for this kind of behaviour. Nobody should insult other religeous beliefs, this is not freedom of speech. We have seen the attrocities committed by Nazis. What have we learnt from there. It is also time that muslims denounce the hatred being preached by some of its clergy. Let the nobility of Islam be presented properly. People like Osama are doing a bigger damage to Islam than anybody else. Muslims are not terrorist per se. They are god fearing good people. It is time to put some limit on freedom of speach.

Its a wonder Islam has existed so long without all of your approvals.

My wife and I liked the artical "Sound Check" in restaurants, mostly my wife, as she wears a hearing aid.

We had to stop watching channel 5 news, what with all what sounds like a bunch of people beating pots and pans in the back ground.

Walter Cable

I take it Ms. Manji will be making a film about Islam showing the scenes she describes in her piece. I'm sure she is willing to suffer fatwas and assasination as is Mr. Wilders. As to the title of the piece, the same description could be used for Islam itself - Boorish and Boring. To that one might add another adjective - Brutish. To keep stressing the point that the vast majority of Muslims are law-abiding and peaceful does nothing to answer the legitimate point about who, in the end, controls them. Every time an atrocity is perpetrated by a Muslim group anywhere in the world, the 'not representative' cry goes up. There are few places on Earth that have escaped such attacks, so one is forced to consider that the 'muslim extremists' exist everywhere. Wherever the chance has presented itself, the Islamics have set up restrictive and medieval regimes, with - as a background theme - an emerging belief in an eventual world-wide Caliphate. Extremists have always been a minority, but whether it is a few fanatics in Germany or a handful of Bolsheviks in Russia, those with an all-consuming belief will strive to realize it, at any cost. And if that belief is a religious one, all the more dangerous. Men are allowed to question laws made by other men. The Laws of God are above question. Those who do not 'submit' must be re-educated or exterminated.

Peter Coulter
Toronto

Should we censor the film and what purpose what that accomplish ?

So perhaps all religious texts and religions has the good, bad and ugly. To suggest that we just need to pretend it is a smorgasbord that we can pick and choose is a form of denial. Currently we have a problem with Islamic regimes and terrorist who pick and choose intolerance and violence and on the other side we have apologists who insist it can all be rosy la la land.

Please understand that we are trying to acquire a target for legitimate self preservation and if you hide in the same tent as your nasty brethren then you are toast.
It is not our job to sort you out.
Certainly Islamic terrorist do not sort out its victims.
Islam needs to get its act together, identify right from wrong and clean house AND/OR stop being identifed politically with states or players that are armed in the name of Allah.
And you don't have a lot of time left.

wilder's intention was to inflame,provoke and insult the beliefs of muslims.

his froduced film emitted one long monotonous note of ugliness, fear and hatred.

this is just uninteresting and boring-

the only spectators who this seems to interest- are those who are tittilated by the senational violent hatred- because it resonates in their own hearts.

should a persons right to incite hatred and prejudice be protected?

not in america, not anymore.

if an american government official chose to produce a film depicting israelite forces dashing the heads of babies against stones- it would be historically accurate.
but a misrepensation of the religion of judaism.

but mostly- it would be an ugly ugly evil hearted thing to do-
with clearly malevolent and malicious intentions-

i doubt anyone would be clamoring for the right of such a civil servant to express themself that way-

nor would many be stupid enough to accept it as a good example-

but people willingly and unquestioingly accept such outrageous propoganda-
sight unseen- as i am confident is the case for most in here-
if it confirms the hatred they hold- and justifies their own hatred to them-

ms manji's suggestion that complete and represntative verses from the qur'an be juxtaposed against the provcative images was a good suggestion-

to reveal the gross hypocrisy of the film makers and its producer- (a government official)

Irshad Manji, I agree with your assessment of this film wholeheartedly. I watched it before I read your statement about it, and needless to say I was shocked and disturbed at the images. I am not Muslim, but neither am I close-minded. While I agree that defending freedom of speech is one of the most important things free societies can do today, I have a great distaste for what Wilders has attempted in his creation of this video. Others commenting obviously disagree, but I also find it boring and quite cliché. We have seen enough of images like this, and have heard the inflammatory passages from the Koran time after time. The only purpose that I can derive from this film is one of anti-Muslim propaganda; coming from a politician fighting to ban the Koran and immigration, one could conclude no less. The point of this film is not to put some unknown truth of Islam out in the world, but to help instigate further issues between Muslims and non-Muslims internationally. This is hardly what we need at the moment, and anybody with half a brain would realize that these are his intentions. Spreading fear and putting people on the defensive is not a good method to remedying the schism between the West and Islam. I don't think that it is necessarily a bad thing, however, that this video is out there...I am for complete and total freedom of speech unconstrained by censorship. However, I do wish that people would use their brains and realize the things about this video that I mentioned above. I am disappointed in the close-mindedness of the other Westerners on this commentary who have the opportunities to investigate for themselves the real issues at hand and to evaluate all different points of view. It's as if these people grew up in a void reminiscent of certain totalitarian regimes in certain Islamic countries! We have the opportunities. It's your own individual prerogative to look at these issues and learn about them and to not be dragged into a boiling pot of propaganda that is put out by politicians like Wilders. Use the resources you have. Don't display your ignorant and reclusive opinions without first getting the facts. I thoroughly read Manji's assessment of this film, and was shocked by some of the comments on this thing. Did we not read the same article? It is amazing how blind people are willing to make themselves to support their own views. It's a bit discouraging, actually...but then we have people like Irshad Manji out there who give me hope and make me feel empowered to effect change. Thank you, Irshad, for your fantastic critique and your open-mindedness. I love your books, and I am a big fan of your values and your stances.

Ishad: You are wrong with your statement "To remain powerful, freedom demands creativity." and I agree Isabelle Kreindler's post made a few hours ago.

Liveleak had to shut down the movie on its site because of death threats. This fact, alone, is the value of FITNA --- that intolerance to the point of violence does happen, and intolerance to the point of violence has to stop.

Freedom to practice one's chosen religion needs to be respected by all countries in all countries.

Geert Wilder did not invent the scripture text.No one disputes that they come from the Quran.

The imams were real.No one disputes that they said what they said.

The victims were real, no one is saying they were hollywood actors.

I find the supercilious comments by manji as attempts to sweep the reality of Islamic violence under the carpet.

Even the PAS political party in Malaysia are marching demanding his death. Extremists?

Fighting For the Freedom!

Muslims reactionaries and clergies rhetoric shown in the movies is nothing but a retaliatory verbosity of a weak, defenceless victims of aggression, oppression and subjugation; urging others to fight for their freedom.

To insist for the freedom of speech and screen even movies like Fitna and other disgusting cartoons to under mine the religion of many millions -Islamists; but why to object freedom of speech by some to urge others to break the shackles of the oppressors in order to attain their freedom of the subjugated people and lands! It is all a freedom of speech and expressions.

Any how; in a so well publicised 16:48 min short movie-Fitna; there is nothing new that we didn’t know earlier?
------------------------------------------------------
Love for all, Hatred for None

The movie is basically a cut and paste job of verses from the Quran juxtoposed with contemporary events and mosque preachings -- not very 'creative', indeed,nothing, unfortunately, that Wilders 'created'! It is the basic issues raised by the film, Islam and Violance, Islam and Intolerance of others, that I think, Irshad, your readers wished you to comment on. Also, are you implying that only people who are creative and interesting deserve the freedom of expression?
Isabelle Kreindler

Truth whether portrayed in a bad movie or a good one is still the truth!!!

And the truth is:

Just as Christianity is self-destructing from the weight of its flaws and errors to include physical resurrections, holy ghosts, and "voodooing the hoodoo" aka "miracles", Islam is analogously self-destructing as noted below:

Islam's reliance on "pretty wingie thingies" and "demons of the demented" for authenication is coming to a fast close. As it does, Mecca will no longer be a shrine to these fictional characters and will simply become a historical tourist attraction. Disney will be constructing another Disney World there featuring roller coaster-chariot rides to the fictional heavens, a water park at the Grand Mosque along with a Hall of Religious Embellished Characters featuring talking figures of Abraham, Jesus and Mohammed and his eleven wives.

Hmmm, Mohammed's figure would be saying something like:

"I was an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, who had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" aka "pretty wingie thingies" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers. "

Asim MA, San Antonio wrote: "Naturally all these grievances wear an Islamic garb.Add to that a bitter historical memory:The Inquisition,the Crusaders,western colonailism and I must repeat the west's creation of a jewish state on Muslim land and in the heart of the Muslim world-a situation that will never be accpeted and it would solve this problem if a the jewish state is moved to Germany where the holocaust took place."
^^^^^^^^^^^^^

First of all, the only muslim land was old Arabia. The Arabs invaded all of the current muslim lands and took them by conquest and rape from the Christians, Jews, and pagans who were the original inhabitants. So if Islam shrinks back to what's now Saudi Arabia it would be back in its original borders.

Second, the Zionists had their eye on taking over Palestine in the early 1900's. By the time WWII and the "holoaust" happened they had already gained control of Palestine. The establishment of Israel only made it official.

The problem now is that there are simply too many people in too small of area without enough resources to support everyone. Consequently millions of peope are going to end up getting killed.

As far as the film is concerned, there are numerous sources on the web that contain original sources verifying that Islam is incompatible with the rest of the world. And since the world isn't big enough anymore to allow fanatics to run loose on rampages there's going to have to be some major adjustments made.

If God or Allah exists let them come forth and defend themselves. If they don't then toss them into the dustbin of history with all of the other forgotten gods. It's not our job to bleed for figments of someone's imagination. What has all of the praying done for anyone except to make him crazy?

It seems clear to me that Mr. Wilders has put together this collage of western perceptions of Islam, as a challenge to the majority of the Islamic world, who are not doing these things, to prove these perceptions wrong.

The flying spaghetti monster rules! Yahweh and Allah stink. The monster could beat those gods with one hand tied behind His other 5000 arms!

Irshad sums up my response to the film. In looking at the comments I find it ironic that when Irshad defends her faith Muslims continue to attack her and the film, Wow!!! Give her a break please. Then in the next breath they state Islam is a religion requires one to look deep within. The debate should continue and I am glad Irshad is there to do it.

No film would cause Muslims to look within, because unlike Western culture, Islamic culture does not value self-criticism or introspection. It assumes itself to be perfect, or at the very least, vastly superior to anything else, and then moves from there.

Although the same thing could be said of Western culture in some instances (i.e. the Crusades, George W. Bush), the outside observer would have to agree that Western though is conducive to metacognition and self-examination whereas other Weltanschauung-s generally are not.

I disagree with Irshad. Islam is a cult focused on world conversion...or subversion...or death for those who don't. As such, Islam must be exposed for what it is...a cult inspired by evil. Yes, there are positive surahs in the Quran, but most of the Surahs are about submitting to Allah or else. Look at the life of Mohammed as chronicled by Muslim scholars...he was at the very least a conniving tyrant who sent his followers to kill anyone who spoke badly about him or his beliefs. Fitna may not be the best production, but it should be shown world-wide to help uncover the truth about Islam. There are many, many good Muslims in the world, but Islam and the Quran are pure evil!

Here's the second part video of Fitna. Islam goal is world domination.

http://www.you tube.com/watch?v=yhGlw30nPfo

Note : Omit the space between "you tube" or you would get an error message

STUPIDITY IS SELF-DESTRUCTIVE. It's true that they will dominate the world soon, but they never tell that it's the cause of their demise too. If muslims don't rein in the stupidity of their religion, then they got only themselves to be blame if they would also cease to exist after their so called "world domination".

Does it strike anyone else as odd that in an article criticizing an online film, no link to the film is provided?

SALLY QUINN AND JOHN MEACHEM CONTINUE THEIR PRO-ISLAMIC PUBLIC RELATIONS CAMAIGN RUNNING A COLUMN WHICH HAS THE SAME BORING RETREAD FAIRY-TALES ABOUT THE GOOD AND HUMANE MOSLEM RELIGION.

MR MANJII, LIKE THE MONKS OF THE AUTO DE FE, READ WHAT EVER THEY WANT IN THE SCRIPTURES WHILE THE HERETICS ARE BURNING.

WOMEN ALL OVER THE MIDDLE EAST WOMEN ARE BASICALLY SUBMISSIVE PROPERTY --- WHATEVER CLAUSES MR MANJII CAN FIND ABOUT "EQUALITY" IN THE KORAN.

sCHOOL CHILDREN ALL OVER THE MIDDLE EAST HAVE BEEEN TAUGHT FOR DECADES TO HATE JEWS AND KILL THEM REGARDLESS OF THE SIMPERING "RESPECT" FOR cHRISTIANS AND JEWS MR MANJII CAN FIND IN HIS KORAN.

THE QUESTION IS WHY THE POST ALLOWS ITS COLUMNS TO REPETEDLY BE USED TO PROPOGANDIZE A BELIEF THAT, AS THE PRESIDENT OF ITALY SAID, IS BARBAROUS AND HAS NOT ADVANCED MORALLY IN 1300 YEARS?

I haven't seen the film, or whatever it's being called presently. I'm neither a proponent or opponent of Islam. I have friends who are Muslim, which, by the way, have allowed me to view Muslims from several stances. Here's a question for all those who viewed the film (and remember I haven't watched it yet): What if this film was made to generate a conscience debate of what ails Islam and/or it's perception by Westerners in an indirect manner? I place as an example the advice by Irshad, which I wholeheartedly agree with: "pepper the film with positive verses from the Qur'an, thereby revealing that Muslims who expound hostility are actively choosing to ignore the better angels of Islam." And, yes, there are "angels" of Islam. As for the onus placed on Muslims to be more introspective, well, I believe that need not be left to a film. Rather, as one of my good Muslim friends tells me, it is the requirement of each Muslim to search deeper and question. I believe each major religion has a disproportionately larger number of followers than thinkers. It's not my pastor, nor my priest, nor my rabbi, nor my imam, etc the gets me to the truth I should be searching. It's me!! If we have received the gift of conscience, thought, and reasoning, then it behooves us to put it to use, for we are denoted as HOMO SAPIENS SAPIENS.........Let's put some effort to the whole SAPIENS!!

Well said Asim! In few words you summed up the truth.

Irshad Manji is the last person on earth to speak for Islam. Her personal choices and statements place her beyond the pale.

She has no standing whatsoever in any muslim community in the world. By allowing her to write for Islam, washington post is showing their true colors.

Wilders? he is not worth a comment.

The problem with the author's logic is that Muslims believe the Koran is literally the spoken word of God. Therefore, the contradictions between the "positive" passages and "negative" passages described seem to reveal a stinging rebuke of the belief system. And you can't cherry pick passages. You've got to have one with the other.

Interestingly, some people think that producing a film that clearly shows the violence of a religion demonstrates your own mental illness or personality disorder.

Odd that Psychology professor Dr Rosnah Ismail from Universiti Malaysia Sabah (UMS)doesn't mention the sadistic Islamofacist murderers that inflict death and destruction worldwide or their mental health. He only says that Mr Wilders has a character flaw and should broaden his understanding of Islam.

Geert Wilders Sadistic, Says Psychologist
KOTA KINABALU, April 2 (Bernama) -- Dutch legislator Geert Wilders who produced the anti-Islam film "Fitna", has a character flaw which in the psychological term can be defined as sadistic, says a psychologist.

Psychology professor Dr Rosnah Ismail from Universiti Malaysia Sabah (UMS) said such a person lacked human feelings and was inclined to enjoy violence.

"The more violent it is, the more he likes and enjoys it," said Rosnah, who is also the director of the university's Research and Innovation Centre.

"In this case, Geert Wilders purposely showed 'Fitna", a film that has elements of violence and that insults Islam, which he knows very well could arouse the anger of Muslims all over the world. He can be regarded as being sadistic," she told Bernama when asked to comment on the Dutch legislator's action.

The 17-minute film carries footage of attacks on New York in 2001 and Madrid in 2004, and interspersed with Quranic verses.

Several Malaysian non-governmental organisations have called on Muslims to boycott Dutch products while in Indonesia Tuesday, President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono ordered that the film be banned in the republic.

"It appears that Wilders is deriving pleasure from showing a film that depicts violence and linking it to Islam," said Rosnah.

"Such a film should never be produced and shown at all as it would not only draw the wrath of Muslims but could also cause friction between people of different religions."

But Wilders, she said, had acted on his whim for his own personal satisfaction, with no care for the sensitivities and opinions of other communities in the world.

"He needs therapy to broaden his thinking and understanding of Islam and the Muslim world," she added.

How do tolerant verses make up for intolerant ones? The Koran is either explicit in its hatred and xenophobia, or it is contradictory and a false system of worship. Either way we should not be apologizing for it.

Anon, Anon, Anon wherever you are,

Also on every newspaper's second page, they should publish the flaws and errors of all religions.

A synopsis of said flaws and errors:

1. Abraham founder/father of three major religions was either the embellishment of the lives of three different men or a mythical character as was Moses, the "Tablet-Man" who talked to burning bushes and made much magic in Egypt.

1.5 million Conservative Jews and their rabbis have relegated Abraham to the myth pile along with most if not all the OT.
simpletoremember.com/vitals/ConservativeTorah.htm

2. Jesus, the illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter possibly suffering from hallucinations, has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a mamzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). Analyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists) via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.
earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

For added "pizzazz", Catholic/Christian theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

3. Mohammed, an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

This agenda continues as shown by the assassination of Bhutto, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, and the Filipino “koranics”.

And who funds these acts of terror? The warmongering, Islamic, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

4. Luther, Calvin, Joe Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley et al, founders of Christian-based religions, also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingy talking flying fictional thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

5. Hinduism (from an online Hindu site) - "Hinduism cannot be described as an organized religion. It is not founded by any individual. Hinduism is God centered and therefore one can call Hinduism as founded by God, because the answer to the question ‘Who is behind the eternal principles and who makes them work?’ will have to be ‘Cosmic power, Divine power, God’."

The caste/laborer system and cow worship are problems when saying a fair and rational God founded Hinduism."

6. Buddhism- "Buddhism began in India about 500 years before the birth of Christ. The people living at that time had become disillusioned with certain beliefs of Hinduism including the caste system, which had grown extremely complex. The number of outcasts (those who did not belong to any particular caste) was continuing to grow."
"However, in Buddhism, like so many other religions, fanciful stories arose concerning events in the life of the founder, Siddhartha Gautama (fifth century B.C.):"

Archaeological discoveries have proved, beyond a doubt, his historical character, but apart from the legends we know very little about the circumstances of his life. e.g. Buddha by one legend was supposedly talking when he came out of his mother's womb.

Bottom line: There are many good ways of living but be aware of the flaws, errors, hallucinations, embellishments, lies and myths surrounding the founders and foundations of said rules of life.

I suspect that Mr. Wilders has decided that Islam is a hate religon and that moderate Muslims don't exist. Too bad. He's just reinforcing stereotypes not challenging them. And he'll only convince Muslims that Europeans, especially the Dutch are hatefull.

Spot on, Irshad! I wish that your spirit of Truth- seeking would spread to all faith populations.

Concerned,

Honestly it's your Mind that needs to be deflawed-if u have one in the first place.

Irshad,
Fitnah in Arabic means "Sedition," which the naive
Wilders who visited the apartheid racist israel 44 times and got his silly idea from.

The Quarn is not a shelf of goodies from which to choose:it one coherent truth,every word of it;u need not twist basics to appease some of your readers. Islam and Muslims are moderate by Quranic definition:there are radicals who happen to be Muslims as a reaction to Political grievances-real and horrendous-from within and from without;

from within ruthless dictators across the Muslim world protected and nurtured by a "democrcay loving Bush;" from without,we have the occupation and destruction of a homeland of Palestine and of a people,the Palestinians,by a racist apartheid colonail settler state,israel,for the past sixty years and the invasion,destruction and occupation of Iraq, the genocide of European Bosnian Muslims,the indian occupation of Muslim majority Kashmir,the Ethiopian occupation of Somalia and the anexation of the Somali Ogaden region.

Naturally all these grievances wear an Islamic garb.Add to that a bitter historical memory:The Inquisition,the Crusaders,western colonailism and I must repeat the west's creation of a jewish state on Muslim land and in the heart of the Muslim world-a situation that will never be accpeted and it would solve this problem if a the jewish state is moved to Germany where the holocaust took place.

And the Bush asks why they hate us.And the media and self serving politicians mislead the west to give the impression that its under attack-not the other way around.

Radicalism and violence have nothing to do with religion:no people on the face of earth have in the past,recent past and at the present,committed more violence-oragnised-than the west:two world wars,the holocaust and a nuclear war on JApenese civilians in full day light of history.

The west should deal with the grievances it created and still festering in the Arab/
Muslim world,deal with the causes and not with symtoms.
Violenec is political and not religious:endless examples can be given,the vietnamese fought Americans without a Quran or a bible,the French resisted Nazi occupation without a bible,so did the Alegerians against the 130 year french occupation. Hitler holocuasted the jews without the bibles-thou lots of bibles were next door at the vatican.

The Muslim world want to be left alone-it is tired:oppression from within and onslaught from without.
Let us stop this silly and empty propaganda and attacks on Islam and the Quran:let the west take a deep look at its own shortcomings and stop middling in the Muslim world and support its dicators-Muslims deserve democracy as any western people.

Irshad,
Fitnah in Arabic means "Sedition," which the naive
Wilders who visited the apartheid racist israe 44 times and got his silly idea from.

The Quarn is not a shelf of goodies from which to choose:it one coherent truth,every word of it;u need not twist basics to appease some of your readers. Islam and Muslims are moderate by Quranic definition:there are radicals who happen to be Muslims as a reaction to Political grievances-real and horrendous-from within and from without;from within ruthless dictators across the Muslim world protected and nurtured by a "democrcay loving Bush;" from without,we have the occupation and destruction of a homeland of Palestine and of a people,the Palestinians,by a racist apartheid colonail settler state,israel,for the past sixty years and the invasion,destruction and occupation of Iraq, the genocide of European Bosnian Muslims,the indian occupation of Muslim majority Kashmir,the Ethipian occupation of Somalia and the anexation of the Somali Ogaden region.

Naturall all these grievances wear an Islamic garb.Add to that a bitter historical memory:The Inquisition,the Crusaders,western colonailism and I must repeat the west's creation of a jewish state on Muslim land and in the heart of the Muslim world.

And they ask why they hate us.And the media and self serving politicians mislead the west to give the impression that its under attack-not the other way around.

Radicalism and violence have nothin to do with religion:no people on the face of earth have in the past,recent past and at the present,committed more violence-oragnised and individual-than the west:two world wars,the holocaust and a nuclear war on JApenese civilians in full day light of history.

The west should deal with the grievances it created and still festering in the Arab/
Muslim world,with the causes and not with symtoms.
Violenec is political and not religious:endless examples can be given,the vietnamese fought Americans without a Quran or a bible,the French resisted Nazi occupation without a bible,so did the Alegerians against the 130 year french occupation. Hitler holocuasted the jews without the bibles-thou lots of bibles were next door at the vatica.

The Muslim world want to be left alone-it is tired from oppression from within and onslaught from without. and

All that is needed is that famous quote:

"Until the koran is deflawed, no one is safe!!!"

This quote should be published on the front page of all newspapers every day.

How about this film / puppet show?

The video is produced by Hamas and shows young Palestinian boy killing with knife president of the US.

http://www.tvn24.pl/2115996,0,0,2,1,wideo.html

I think it shows the truth of Islamic religion.

"Michael Carter:
Watching "Fitna" made me think how easy it would be to produce a "documentary" about Christianity for Muslim consumption that would make Christians appear hateful and barbaric. Such films are not what is needed in a world where we all have to live with each other, nor do they contribute to understanding, which is the only thing able to dispel fear and mistrust. It must not be forgotten that terror and jihad are the tools of a small, fanatical minority whose ranks we only increase by ignorantly painting an entire culture with the same brush."

But all you have to do to make a film about Islam is turn on the news.
Can that be said about many other religions.Pretending Islam is non violent is sticking your head in the sand.To fix a problem you first have to admit it exists.

I haven't seen Mr Wilders' film but I find it very interesting the the best that Ms. Manji can do is pick at the technical merits of the film then take of on a screed about the merits of phrases of the Koran. A few seconds thought would arrive at the conclusion that dressing up horrific events to be artful is a pretty tough task. It appears that she has so little of worth to say that she had to fill out her commentary with a non-sequitur about copyright lawsuits.

Her suggestion as to what would improve the film is pure fantasy. There may well be phrases in the Koran that contain positive messages but that means nothing if all of the professors of the faith do not choose to practice them.
The idea that shaming Imans or other fanatics will accomplish anything is childish. Either they change themselves or outside forces, verbal or physical are applied to change them or prevent them from having any influence.
By the looks of Ms. Manji's commentary she may have missed the whole point of the film. The real issue in my opinion is not to compare and contrast verses of the Koran but to condemn and rally opposition to the heinous acts carried out allegedly with the full full support of Islams' interpretation of the words of their god.

Muslims certainly need to look deep within but more importantly they need to stop murdering their fellow humans, Muslim and non alike. Non-Muslims do need to learn about Islam and given that new understanding they need to take a stronger stand against the evil. They also need proof that Islam is not the violent, murderous faith that some of its alleged practitioners make it out to be.A start would be for those who profess the faith the stand up and denounce the evil-doers amongst them rather than taking hysterical offense at alleged slights to their faith.

Mr Manji is right on the mark and very clear

"I have watched it. Others should too"
-----

Where and how did you watch this film? Is it on web or in Blockbuster?

Michael Carter wrote : " Watching "Fitna" made me think how easy it would be to produce a "documentary" about Christianity "

How easy? Then make one. I'll be most glad if you can produce one. We can use it as evidence to jail those persons on the video. In a sane society, we punish the evil doers. In Islamic countries, they punish the whistleblowers.

That's the main difference between sanity and stupidity and muslims show their stupidity by punishing the whistleblowers.

Nature and her natural laws are the final authority. But it seems it takes a long time for human beings to learn this simple truth. Said another way, it takes a long time for nature to wear out our individual and collective inadequacies.

Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, etc. have their place given the current collective state of humanity....and many who abide the orthodox teachings are decent and good people.

But the fact is that human religions are belief systems, which mean "opinion" & "interpretation" systems, and such opinions are frequently inflexible and extreme. Leading to "I'm right and you're wrong". And in the minds of some, leading to the necessity of violence to enforce a belief.

Those of us who are in some measure fair and just must in some fashion "lock up" or "put in jail" those that will not abide by basic rules of law and order in a global setting. This is in a sense analogous to a city locking up a mugger on the loose in the local park. There may be a lot of reasons for the criminal behavior, and these perhaps should be analyzed, studied and corrected if possible, but all of this after getting the person off the streets.

None of this has any relationship to God by the way. God is not a concept but an experience, and once felt dissolves the human need to be "right", replacing all conditioned mental states with a desire to serve the purposes of a higher power. And do the greatest good for the greatest number. It seems alas that as many prophets have said through the ages, many thousands must fall at the left and right before the realization dawns.

This is exactly the way to treat this film. Hold it up to scrutiny and judge it as a film work compared to other films. Protesting, banning, and violence real or threatened only makes people want to see it even more out of curiosity. Like the anti-mohammed 'cartoon' posted in the press, it only fueled curiosity and hate. If it had been ignored, it would have gone the way of all political cartoons. Notoriety makes it famous. I understand the muslim teaching on not representing Mohammed, Jesus or God in physical form, and respect it as their take on resisting idolatry. But to react violently to criticism of ones faith is dangerous, short-sighted and hypocritical. Christianity and the west are regularly criticized/examined by some 'islamic' groups/individuals, also by other groups/individuals. If we reacted with violence and banning every time, we would be constantly at war. A society or religion that bans examination stunts their own growth. The catholic church itself shows an example of this. Jesus regularly made examination of the Jewish Pharisee's religious teaching and practice, mostly because he was of that faith himself. We see where that got him.

I am astonished with the level of ignorance and hate that most of anti Islam individual wrote. You may keep looking at facts from your narrow minded point of view and you shall live in the darkness of your soul.

Manji's comments might carry more validity if she were living in a middle eastern nation where she could not drive, vote, or be seen in public with a male to whom she is not married.

Please.

I find it odd that here in the U.S. that the always outspoken civil rights, women's rights and First Amendment activists have remained largely silent on those subjects where islam is concerned - yet would no doubt march against 'right wing christian extremists' at seemingly every opportunity.

Islam is largely a culture of death; a political movement cowardly hiding behind the facade and pretense of a "peaceful religion". Be not mistaken that the goal is world-wide caliphate by any means: violence, legislation, and/or lawsuits enabled by political correctness.

Until the alleged "moderate muslims" begin to openly clean their own house of extremists, the entire ideology will remain suspect.

Great article. Alot of truth

Someone should do one of these with the bible next.