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God is love, but God also is holy, pure and righteous, and He will come to judge.

(About Jesus Christ)(Revelation 19:11-15)
"With justice he judges and makes war. His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. "He will rule them with an iron scepter."He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty.

Notice Jesus' robe is dipped in blood?! That's the blood of those who haven't truly followed Him with their lives. They haven't asked for his forgiveness for their sins,(such as having sex before/outside of marriage/ lustful thoughts/stealing/cursing/hating people/murder/gossip/etc.)Those people haven't truly recognized their need for Jesus as their Savior;(that He came to die on the cross to pay the price for THEIR sin--if they will only follow Him). If they refuse Him, and turn away from the only One who could ever possibly pay the price for their sin, then they are CHOOSING to have an ETERNITY burning in the lake of sulfur in hell.

Revelation 22:12-15
(Jesus Christ speaking) "Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End."

"Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood."

God allows us to CHOOSE; you're either following Him with all your heart, or you're not. Their is no fooling God. (Just as you know who your family members are, so does He.) Anyone who is not His follower isn't going to spend eternity in heaven with Him.

If you think that is harsh, just think-- if you didn't want to spend life following Him on earth, you wouldn't be happy with Him in heaven.

But until your last breath you have the chance to call on God and be saved. Salvation isn't just mechanically saying a prayer. Recognize your need for Jesus; there is no way any of us could ever be holy and perfect as God calls us to be on our own. We can only be holy through Jesus Christ (because of His payment-death, for us). If you refuse Jesus, the only One that came to pay your debt in full, you leave yourself no bridge to heaven.

That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

God bless you all

Melissa,

I have never heard Easter explained more beautifuly. Your passion is inspiring.

And you may not be the only dreamer but you are 'THE ONLY ONE"!

Peace
Jayme

Melissa
That is all there is
love
so i choose love

thanks
see u in madison square garden
peaceout!

stephnancy

As of this moment, there are 106 comments to one article. One small article, from one person who shared what they believed.

I have read some of these comments from people who call themselves Christians, people who call themselves Pagens and some who don't call themselves anything and I see strife, petty arguments and attacks on one another. Much of the reason is because one doesn't agree with the other.

I don't think this is the message Jesus was trying to send to the world when He gave us the great commission.

What if someone who didn't know anything about Jesus came on here and began to read the comments to this article? Would they find the love of Christ? Would they be enticed to want to know more about Christianity? They will know we are Christians by our love.

They will be known by their fruit.

I think it is time for us to bump it up a notch as Christians and stop trying to give our opinion everytime someone doesn't have the same views as ours. If we continue to tell people when they are wrong in their thinking and when they are wrong in what they believe or what they should practice-what does the Holy Spirit have to do? When do we get to learn from Jesus? We are getting in the way dear Christians.

I think we, all of us, Christian and non-Christian alike have enough to contend to when it comes to learning how to love one another, genuinely, just as we are. God's second command and as Jesus confirms in the Gospels. What would happen if we laid down all the petty arguements and learned how to love each other, despite of our differences? It takes a lot of work and effort.... but they would know we are Christians.

What if Melissa was only sharing part of what she believes? What if she believes FAR more than expressed but didn't feel the need to express it? Perhaps she expresses it by her life and her deeds. Who are we to say any differently?

Take the pressure of yourself and let God correct, let God judge, let God reavel the darkness and what may be wrong in someone's life and in someone's heart. Regardless of popular belief, God didn't ask us to take all that one because He know we would fail at it. It is way past time to practice what we preach. Practice the gospel with our lives. We are not Pharisee's are we? I believe as Christians, we need to start questioning the motives in our OWN hearts first.

As for Melissa......he who cast the first stone.

May God continue to bless us, help us and forgive us all.

Melissa continues to inspire me with her truth more and more. I love how she is not afraid to share her spritual awakening with the world. Once again, thank you Melissa!

Melissa-I am so proud of you for all you have accomplished. I admire your strength and music.

Those who love, no matter who they love, are emulating what Christ has taught!

Rock on!!!

NAMASTE...Dearest Light Bearer 'Melissa'

You are a glorious Gift to Gaia-and this Universe (as are we all)! This Ascension Journey is indeed a Magnificent one, forging new 'realities' far beyond our 3D realms. Your messages radiate powerful Joy to millions around the world-and I offer you my deepest Gratitude -Honouring your devotion & willingness to openly speak from your Heart...of the Oneness that is being Re-birthed in this Eternal NOW!

I recently composed this poem and lovingly share it here...

'THE GIFT OF CHOICE'

"Each Dawn invites unseen gifts and presents them to us in an ethereal guise...Choices from the Heart.

The Power lies softly within the Heart...awaiting the AWAKENING!

What do we CHOOSE to CREATE-as our GIFT to this Newborn Day?"

(submited to Poetry.com/March 2008)

Lord forgive them all for they know not what they say or do.

Anyway, Arminius, that touches on anger.

Being called dishonest for my faith is certainly something that leads to a certain atavistic point of view:

It's like, "If you don't believe I can speak honestly, why are your lips still moving?"

"Yeah, I know, what's justified? Hard to say, can be a grey area for sure, and a tricky minefield to cross."

Well, there, all I can say is that maybe you should let your teacher teach you and don't figure Biblical exegesis on every feeling you have is some kind of internal inquisition or judgement day.

Folks who think 'justifying' something is really what it's all about usually find a way to, whatever it is they end up feeling like doing.

I do prefer a good heart and the more immediate presence of the Divine at decision-time.

What you guys call 'Grace,' actually. A concept I'm sure you're familiar with, (I'm not afraid to use the word, myself, but, hey, it's another borrowing from Paganism: share on. :) ) ...but too often a thing Christians seem to overthink, generally to the point of 'justifying' what they did when out of control and disavowing responsibility if they can find the right book passage.

There's a legalistic mindset in there, when people are 'justifying' things they just shouldn't be doing, one I think too many Christians have projected on Jews, in recent millenia.

Kind of like when 'Christian business owners' go, 'I'm a Christian, so you know I'm honest.' They say that, what it tells me is, "Ok, now I know that without the return sign, you presume I may be the non-Christian I am, and thus 'justify' anything you feel like doing to me.'

Insult and bigotry. 'Justified,' of course, but I've had worse 'justified' things done to me than a bad deal on a major purchase.

You don't justify. You look me in the eye and do the right thing, or you are not doing the right thing.

'Justify.' The right thing isn't in a book. Excuses are in a book.

Paganplace,

Well, I was angry for sure, but not the Celtic, claymore-swinging fury kind of rage. Just seriously pissed off. I can deal (usually) with that. So I made a careful reply, saying some positive things, trying to open the door for dialog, but leaving no doubt as to where I stand. Harder to write than an angry howl.

I know about repressing anger. It has bit me hard on occasion, and caused me to say things that really hurt people. So I have developed ways to recognize that and try to deal with it. I don't ever want to hurt anyone again, except in justified defense. Yeah, I know, what's justified? Hard to say, can be a grey area for sure, and a tricky minefield to cross.

Arminius

Well, Arminius, I think it's a page you could take from the Pagan playbook without cheesing off your savior, who, to my recollection, was known to get a little punk rock about hypocrisy, himself, as I recall, is that feeling anger isn't some kind of sin or character flaw.

(As, ironically, some Christians try to claim when their words or actions anger you. Can't be that they're doing wrong, it must be *you.* But, hey, pretty much everyone that ever preached 'Turn the Other Cheek' to me was in some kind of process of aggression in my general direction. Pagans get something more like, "Eyes forward, balance centered, Right Action, and watch for the telegraphing." :) )

Anger is an emotion, a natural emotion. It turns ugly when you cling to it or repress it or deny you have it and are responsible for it.

You've asked why so many Christians *hate* the likes of me. It's partly because they're taught to repress and deny their anger at one thing or another, and then they're given acceptable targets like myself to possibly uncork on.

With issues of homophobia, for instance, males who may have some homosexual attractions now and again, they're taught that this is a threat, to be repressed. Being males, they tend to harbor anger when their sexuality is frustrated by authorities... There's instincts to dominance behavior. They may not be allowed to be angry at the people who told them they were threatened with eternal death for having their feelings, they bottle up that anger and point it at more 'acceptable' targets. Like queer folks.

Anger is like fear, ...and they're often related, and not *only* like Yoda says in the movies, either.

We're reasoning creatures, but between that reason and the rest of our bodies are some important bits that are still all about fight, flight, or freeze, when a threat is perceived.

If a physical survival situation crops up, we are *capable,* if we learn to, to feel these things and direct them, or even say, 'OK, I'll take the adrenal dump' and pop the clutch, so to speak.

When we *mentally* threaten ourselves, or teach others to respond to words and ideas and differences *as* 'threats' ...especially if we are taught, not to breathe through anger, not to govern it without denying it, but turn it inward, especially if we're taught to evaluate mental ideas or perceptions of others as *eternal and horrible threats,* that's when anger builds up into hatred or actions that people later can't believe they went and did.

That's what's to be worried about, not feelings.

I've got a certain amount of experience of being subjected to violence, particularly in contexts where I had more to fear from the authorities that should have been helpful than the actual stomping.

I learned, really, that in a context of such disempowerment, in my case physical as well as by conditioning, that the last thing you can afford to do when subject to aggression is get upset at yourself for being upset just because the situation is happening.

That's the surest way to be at least one kind of victim.

For me, the conditioning broke long before it came around to make sense to physically-fight back, there was a certain brutal logic to my circumstance, but that knowing enabled me to endure a lot without breaking myself. And when the day came to pop that clutch, *I* did it. *I.* (Many thanks to certain more-terryifing aspects of Goddess on technique.)

And I slept well that night.

The thing about *anger,* Arminius, is that it's part of us. The more you feel it, the more you *must* accept it's part of you, and *take* responsibility for it, ...not by seeing devils and denigrating others, not by beating *yourself* up, but by saying, 'I will breathe this, accept this, I will express this or I will not,' but *never* by trying to deny it.

It's a sort of skill, like anything else. It doesn't make you a *bad* person, it makes you a *person.* Certainly, a person responsible for your actions and inactions and words, but *that's being a person.* Comes with the equipment.

OK? :)

Paganplace,

You're welcome. It was a conscious effort for me to not be very angry. This time it worked. But there comes a time, I suppose, when 'fight the good fight' (St Paul!) gets wearisome and non-productive. Time to move on.

Arminius

Guess I should have said 'anyone,' rather than 'everyone,' there, Arminius. Thanks for the bit of support, there. Thread's kind of off the scopes, anyway, but, Gods, that was offensive.

If there was such a thing as 'fighting words' in my world, (Apart, of course, from words that say, "I'm about to try and hit you really hard, now,") there'd be some in those posts.

Ah, I can really only conclude the writer's probably just confused, Arminius, not that that gives anyone the right to say things like that, confused or not.

One gets very tired of this thing where everyone who believes they found Jesus thinks it came with a license to treat people like that, heedless of what can happen to people like me when someone believes them.

Think it's worth the karma?

To Happy Easter and Anonymous:

After re-reading Paganplace's posts, I find nothing evil or satanic. I did not expect to find anything of the sort. I have exchanged views with her here in On Faith for some months now; we have certainly had some spirited debates! But I have come away with an enduring respect for the lady, and consider her a friend. I know now that at heart she is loving and compassionate, and certainly has more courage than the average. She has been put on the defensive here, and when that happens, she comes out swinging. I don't blame her. I respectfully ask that you stop judging, and continue the dialog with patience and without bitter accusations.

Arminius, a Christian

Cause I'll tell you what's cowardly, Happy.

Cowardly is seeing devils where good people are.

As is done to so many lesbians. like Ms Etheredge, and her wife, whoever she is.

No, I'm not her partner, ...what a silly thing to say to try and discredit the notion she's making perfect sense to me, as though some personal connection could be the only reason.

Nope, not her partner. But I'm someone's. And we have a life that plenty of people such as we see here would rather call 'evil' than treat fairly.

We also have our faith. Oft-defamed as it is. It's a little different from Ms. Etheredge's, but not so very. No Jesus in it, but no devils, either.

And I don't exist for your moralistic titillation, either. Whatever you think saying those things about someone like me does for you.

Uhh, whatever you're talking about, 'Happy Easter/Anonymous,' ...I was responding to someone who got it in their head I must be Melissa's partner to be *supporting* her statements vs the usual crop of homophobes. (As opposed, presumably, to actually being a reasonable person saying she makes some sense, here. :))

I'm not sure what 'evil' you see in that, especially not to the point of calling someone Satanic, and all those other nasty implications of yours. But you can keep those to yourself, frankly. You *aren't* making sense.

Though maybe you should try applying those glass house metaphors to yourself. You're the one speaking of 'evil.' What, cause I'm not Christian? Yadda, yadda.

dear patanplace:

Nobody cares what you have to say. These
postings are about Melissa and her comments.

God watches those who cast evil stones. I hope
the house you live in isn't glass.

Learn from truthful people before you speak.

dear paganplace:

whoever thou art a coward more than thyself?

Posting comments are for those to share about
Melissa. Nobody cares what you have to say.
Are you sure you aren't from satan's place?
Such evil words flow from you. Perhaps you
should find the light and learn from people
like Melissa. Who are truthful to their
God, who are loving, show are kind.

Bless you! Hope you find peace.

Thank you Melissa! I love your music and all.

But I would have to say that so many people today don't even know that real meaning of these holidays (Christmas and Easter). If you really look at Easter is more important than Christmas.So many people today don't even go to Church. I would have to say that I'm guilt of that also. It s that lifestyle and the lives we lead now days. Many, MANY MOONS AGO NOTHING WAS EVER OPEN ON SUNDAYS. NOW LOOK AT IT. I also belive that God loves every person now matter who or what there lifestyle is.
I pray that everyone has a blessed Easter!

Paganplace,

Go for it.

Arminius

Or, of course, my posting history here for however long it's been was all an elaborate deception in preparation for a defense of a sentimental Easter essay against you taking it all manner of personally that the writer is a lesbian.

You make the call. :)

Sheri: You betcha. :)

And.. *chuckle.*

" coulditbe:

Hmmmm, I wonder if, could it be, that Paganplace is actually Tammy, Melissa's partner?? Sounds like her."

You do realize 'we' don't actually know all of each other, don't you? Gods. It's not like we have secret meetings to undermie the marriages of straight people who apparently follow celebrity gossip better than we do. :)

I didn't even know she was actually a lesbian till, well, some time a few years ago, I forget the occasion, and didn't know she was *married* till all manner of Christians took the occasion of Easter to say she *didn't* have a wife and was going to their Hell for it or whatever passes for 'joy' in their lives.

(Yes, it actually slipped by without particular notice that she was married when I read her article. If I was her wife, I wouldn't be a very good one, now would I, never having heard of myself, and all. That could get awkward. :) )

You, on the other hand, seem to know her business pretty well. Why is that?

Thanks Melissa!

It is always awesome to hear your thoughts of
truth and faith. What amazes me is how much
truth triggers anger in people that are not at the
same level of faith as someone so respected like
you.

Keep it going! And don't let the negative seeds
interfer with your calling in life!

Love & Peace to you as well!
All the way from the U.P. of Michigan!
You Go Girl!
Sheri

melissa is so right! about everything she said!

Nice sentiments...and I enjoyed the opinion piece, however, creating "our reality" has proven to be futile in so many cases...you may spin on your own for awhile, but in the end...there is someone with a far better plan than your own...and that one is God.

If you believe we are on a "beautiful heavenly planet that is spinning in perfect balance with the rest of the universe"...that may be true for the planet, but what about its people?! Surely, you recognize that there is not too much heavenly going on between us earthlings.

I appreciate your all encompassing spiritual path...but it seems to be mostly wishful thinking. There is only one Prince of Peace...may you find Him now!

Love in Christ!
--Alexander

Hmmmm, I wonder if, could it be, that Paganplace is actually Tammy, Melissa's partner?? Sounds like her.

" Come On:

Does anyone really think that what Melissa Etheridge says above makes any sense?"

Sure, more than a great deal of what we hear here. Especially in the comments. :)

Well, NH guy:

"Thus my thoughts about Melissa's essay and much of her writing, and my suggestion Melissa write more from a perspective a little less about herself and a little more about Everyman."

People are allowed to talk about their personal experiences. It's probably not easy for anyone to talk about their personal faith without sounding schmaltzy or preachy or whatnot ...or even self-absorbed, to *someone,*

Frankly, I sill think it beats just telling *others* what to believe.

Or, frankly, accusing someone of "Evil Acts" simply for being a lesbian and writing something.

Does anyone really think that what Melissa Etheridge says above makes any sense? Regardless of your relgious persuasion, you have to admit, she's just rambling.

And, Melissa, there's no such thing as the "winter equinox".

16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[a] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.[b] 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.

LOVEO & LOVEA is arrived. We are Here!

...~~~~~o.... -----___
.~~~~....(♥)...............\
~~~~~................]={|)...) HELLO WORLD!
.~~~~....(♥).......___./
...~~~~~o--------
=
~~~~o ----
..~~~~(♥) \
~~~~~ ]={}..) YA YA!
..~~~~(♥) /
~~~~o ----

Please visit :jo:zevz.us: OR

♦.J
♦♦..O
♦♦♦...Z
♦♦♦♦....E
♦♦♦♦♦....V
♦♦♦♦♦♦.....Z.us OR

:j:
:o:
:z:
:e:
:v:
:z:
.us

THANK YE ALL!

Well said.

There are those who think that the exercise and pursuit of artistic expression is somehow a transcendent exercise, and there are those who think that the pursuit of artistic expression is just so much narcissistic vanity on display. Ms. Etheridge's comments have more in common with the latter than the former. She should have just written a song about it and made it official.

There is no recognition in her words beyond her perception of herself; she seems to confuse this with transcendence.

Like Ms. Etheridge, I was inoculated against organized religion, and I also held those song lyrics as true. But after the doctors had gotten my sweet baby child to breathe after she was born not breathing, I pressed her succulent flesh to my face and cried, I cried "Thank you, Jesus" as those were the only words that seemed capable of transversing my synaptic connections. Thank you for giving me this wonderful baby girl. Baby girl isn't so small anymore, but I still look at her in wonder and it seems like there's something out there a lot bigger than I'll ever be.

Melissa Etheridge is one of the rare human beings, who has a genuine altruistic heart & soul that graces this earth.

She is a teacher who speaks true, and a messenger of Love and Peace to the universe.

I feel so blessed that I am here on this earth at the same time as her.

Touche' Melissa!!!
Patty

Hyannis ;)

*************************************************
A suffering soul on the way to the Kingdom of Heaven
Held up a sign that says "God hates America"
A child has been lost
A mother is shocked and is grieving
And turning away, turning away

He said there is a love that is so hideous and destructive
We must drive it from Earth to save all of our children
He must know it well
In the night it's the hell that he speaks of
It keeps him awake, keeps him awake

My God is love
My God is peace
My God loves you
My God loves me

A suffering soul on the way to the Kingdom of Heaven
Prayed in the dark, "Death to the infidel"
He strapped all his desperate pain and his faith to his body
And blew them away, blew them away

A suffering soul on the way to the Kingdom of Heaven
Shouts on the news, "They are the godless ones"
The anger inside and the fear that it hides
never leave her
When the cameras are gone, when the cameras move on

Oh, people, c'mon? tell me where is your Kingdom of Heaven?
Where is your faith?
Where do you put your fear?
Do you have a price for truth and a price for believing?
And heaven is here, heaven is here

My God is love
My God is peace
My God is you
And my God is me

DontTypeLies:

Perhaps you should live up to your name.

Women who turn to women as an escape from abusive men are not truly lesbian - they're just afraid and looking for safety.

Gay people who "get saved" and then decide not to follow their same-sex attractions anymore will tell you that they still "struggle" with those attractions, but Jesus helps them not to give in - in other words, their behavior has changed, but not their orientation.

Homosexuality is being ATTRACTED to the same sex, whether or not you act on that attraction. If you are a man attracted to men, but celibate, you are still gay.
Having sex with someone with the same genital complement as you does not make you gay if the attraction isn't there.

Paganplace wrote:
"Your brief essay came across as a little flakey and quite self-absorbed--how many times did you write, "I"?"

Hey, it sure beats beating your chest how "I'm a Christian, I love my neighbor, you hellspawn, look how inferior you are if you show any anger at me talking past you."

...............

I hear you, and for sure there's a huge difference between Etheridge and her fake-Christian detractors anyday.

I mean, does one love his/her neighbor or not, you know? You'll notice I didn't bother with the so-called "Christians" responding here.

Didn't want or need to go there. I prefer argueing with rational people.

I was just responding to Melissa, that's all. My response to her is not unlike any discussion I might have between friends or simply acquaintances in my living room.

For sure, we're all just bouncing off of each other in our growing.

My general argument with Melissa is much like the disagreement between David Crosby and Jackson Browne when Crosby first played "Wooden Ships" for Jackson, who allegedly replied, "What about the people who don't have boats?" Browne's musical response was his song "For Everyman".

Thus my thoughts about Melissa's essay and much of her writing, and my suggestion Melissa write more from a perspective a little less about herself and a little more about Everyman.

Beautiful essay Melissa. The memories of what's been forgotten stir old wounds that have yet to be healed. It is indeed the time for awakening. There are many dreamers connected by the thread of Light.

Wishing you and your family a Happy Easter and love everywhere you travel on this earth and beyond.

Peace.

"Your brief essay came across as a little flakey and quite self-absorbed--how many times did you write, "I"?"

Hey, it sure beats beating your chest how "I'm a Christian, I love my neighbor, you hellspawn, look how inferior you are if you show any anger at me talking past you."

:)

Bunnies don't alarm me. :)

NH GUY:

I assumed that WaPo had asked thier guest essayists to write about what Easter is for them - which would necessitate the use of first person pronouns.

And while the medical community can do much to treat disease, I am firml;y convinced that their ministrations are much more effective when the patient is mentally and spiritually contributing effort to his/her own healing process.

Nice to see your name; but to be honest, beyond that I was hoping for a little more depth, for once, from you. Your brief essay came across as a little flakey and quite self-absorbed--how many times did you write, "I"? Did you write this stoned or reveling in the afterglow of a glorious concert experience? You write as if you imagine everyone is hanging on your every word, and I guess you thought your mentions of the "Easter bunny" were supposed to be cute though they came off as merely contrived. You write as if you're quite certain you're correct in your blathering; but more irritatingly you appear to imagine yourself "just a little bit superior" as SNL "Church Lady" would accuse. Your relief from cancer is thanks to medical advancements, not by your self-absorbed, self-healing fantasies. And while you lavish yourself with credit for healing yourself you may have added a mere footnote of thanks to the medical community. Get real. Your fishes and scorpions astronomy is also quite fantasy. And your clever, concluding reference to a John Lennon lyric does not redeem your otherwise quite useless meandering.

At 50, though I've noticed you, I've never been much of a fan of your work, and this has nothing to do with your "choice" of lifestyle. It's your self-absorption I can't buy. This trite mini-essay of yours hasn't done anything to win me over, but I don't imagine it was meant for any other than your adoring fans, and that's fine, I guess. But I wish you well, though I might suggest a little less Melissa and a little more Everyman might be of great use to you.

Best wishes.

"You have no listened to a word I have said."

a) I most certainly did, and gave you straightforward answers and straight-up questions which you've insistently dodged.

b) Do you really think I haven't heard everything you say here before nearly every day of my life?

I mean, hey, if you get something out of talking like that, go keep yourself warm.

Just don't presume like you know my life, or your 'Gay Friends' ' or *anyone's,* sport.

You have no listened to a word I have said. You are blinded by your anger. I will pray that that changes but until then, continuing this conversation seems useless.

Just because they cannot read the Bible, does not mean that they do not believe it, and you know that. You seem fairly intelligent. You have to understand that if you are Christian you believe in the Bible. Its obvious.

I have tried to define no one and I have now said repeatedly that Ms. Etheridge can have a great spiritual life. She can even be saved by Christ for all I know. I have no idea what her relationship is with God, for the last time.

You refuse to hear me because you are so angry and you are determined to make it seem like I hate gay people and think they all go to hell when any fair minded reader who has read my comments will obviously see that is not what I am saying, in fact it is the exact opposite.

Enjoy your anger. I'm going back to studying.

Accepting that personally, I don't care if your Bible speaks of sticks, salvation, or sausages, ....table that:

Again, did your "Gay friends" tell you they made a choice to 'defy God' ...or did you just decide you were entitled to label them so?

"Is that a no, you cannot find one instance where someone believes in God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit but not the bible?

Of course you cannot"

Except, of course, I did. As in, most of my ancestors.

But my whole life is just a 'sinful choice' that somehow revolves around your St. Paul's book in the first place, so you can ignore that bit, right?

Believe what you want, but just cause you can't accept ms Etheredge has a spiritual life, or that I do, for that matter, doesn't mean you get to define us.

Frankly, I think it's *your* definitions that don't match up with life. Not for her as a Christian, nor me as a Pagan.

For the record, I never said that I did not care if she was saved. I hope she is. I simply said I do not know if she is or not because I do not claim to know her relation to Christ, like you apparently claim to.

Is that a no, you cannot find one instance where someone believes in God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit but not the bible?

Of course you cannot.

It would be absurd to believe such a thing. One would have no idea what he said, or did. One would not learn anything from Christ without his words. One would have no way of even hearing his message without his words.

If you believe in Christ, you have to believe in the Bible. If you believe in the Bible, you have to believe that homosexuality is a sin. Its that simple.

"I have never said that any Gay person is any less of a person than a straight person. I have many gay friends and I just disagree with their life choices."

Oh, I'm sure.

And these gay friends told you they made a 'choice...' Or do you just think you're enough of a better person than they to label them as such?

"She can believe in God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit but deny that the bible is true? Can you please provide some evidence of anyone ever having that view."

You do realize, of course, that for most of the history of Christianity, very few could read at all, never mind the languages the Bible was written in?

Paganplace:

I have never said that any Gay person is any less of a person than a straight person. I have many gay friends and I just disagree with their life choices.

I obviously believe that gay people are people too and will even say that God loves them just as much as he loves me or anyone else. It says that God loves you just as you are.

As for your notion that Ms. Etheridge is a Christian but might not believe in the bible, I find this notion to be absurd.

She can believe in God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit but deny that the bible is true? Can you please provide some evidence of anyone ever having that view. That seems like a ridiculous notion to me.

I would quote that the Bible says that in the beginning was the word, but then you can just say that Ms. Etheridge does not believe in the bible just Jesus. I dont understand that view at all, with all due respect.

And I apologize if my views make you angry, but we have a mere difference of opinion. They happen every day. There is no need to get upset about them.

I don't care if she's 'saved,' either, dude.

I'm not the one who believes people need 'saving' from life in the first place.

You're just among the many that claim that you have some right to condemn gay people cause you like St. Paul's rantings.

Now, she claims to believe in some importance of your Christ, and, frankly, that makes a lot more sense than whatever it is *you* are trying to prove about people you don't know.

Paganplace:

I can not say it any more simple:

I have no idea if Ms. Etheridge is saved or not. That is 100% between her and God. It is not up to me.

My opinion of her salvation does not matter because I have no idea what her relationship is with Christ. All I know is that I rely on Jesus. I know that I need him for my salvation.

""I don't care what you think about your book. It doesn't entitle you to claim that either a Christian is 'denying God' or that a Pagan even exists in *that* context."

""Now its my book?"

Well, it ain't mine. I thought *you* said it was your book.

"In your last post you claimed that Ms. Etherdidge believed in the same book? "

Actually, I believe I claimed she believed in the same God and/or savior. This is not the same as a book to everyone. Certainly not to me.

'Can you please make up your mind."

Long since, thanks, but you may not find the verdict 'respectful.'

"I have been nothing but respectful in my posts and I feel you have not been the same."

Nonsense. You claim other people's lives have something to do with 'choosing to defy God.' As written in your *reading* of your book.

That's not respect, that's willful gainsaying of the loving life experiences of others so you can claim to be better than them.

Bigotry, in fact.

"If she believes in the Bible, as YOU claimed, then she is going against part of it. "

That's not what I claimed. It's not my fault if you can't tell the difference between a book and 'God.'

"That does not mean that she does not believe in Christ."

Well, *you* seem to be the one who was saying *that.*

" That does not mean that she is not saved. That simply means that there is a part of her life that she needs to work on. Much like there are areas of my life that I need to work on. There are areas of everyone's life where they can improve."

Your own thinking you're in need of a spanking doesn't entitle you to go claiming others are 'choosing to sin' against your idea of what St paul says, ....cause you feel like it.

"I don't know why you are so angry at me, but I would ask that we keep this respectful."

Then I respectfully say you say things which make people who are not straight *angry.* Because you deny our loves and lives and insult and degrade us.

You act like it's somehow given to you to talk like our lives and loves and marriages are nothing but hedonistic sex acts that maybe you think you'd love to do if only you didn't think your God was dangling your tootsies over eternal fire if you don't make sure my life-partner pays out of pocket if I need hospital care.

That's why.

You wanna whine about *respect,* you start with figuring others are human beings, too.

Paganplace:

"I don't care what you think about your book. It doesn't entitle you to claim that either a Christian is 'denying God' or that a Pagan even exists in *that* context."

Now its my book? In your last post you claimed that Ms. Etherdidge believed in the same book? Can you please make up your mind.

I have been nothing but respectful in my posts and I feel you have not been the same.

If she believes in the Bible, as YOU claimed, then she is going against part of it. That does not mean that she does not believe in Christ. That does not mean that she is not saved. That simply means that there is a part of her life that she needs to work on. Much like there are areas of my life that I need to work on. There are areas of everyone's life where they can improve.

This is all completely logical taking your premise of her being a Christian.

I don't know why you are so angry at me, but I would ask that we keep this respectful.

I mean, let's make it real simple, George:

You do realize the only people really spooled-up about and attached to the notion that sexual orientation is a 'God-defying choice' ...have a real funny way of turning out to be really *bad at it?*

St. Paul's sexuality issues are pretty glaring. Dude had issues. Jesus never even hinted at stuff he blew gaskets over. Plain to see.

So, if you think Ms Etheredge isn't worshiping whatever you think your God is, frankly, I'd take her version any day if the universe was actually set up that way.

"I believe you have completely misunderstood my comments and have frankly taken my quote out of context."

Actually, what's going on here is you're trying to put *your* beliefs about *your* words in *our* damn context.

Hers.

Mine.

Not your context.

I don't care what you think about your book. It doesn't entitle you to claim that either a Christian is 'denying God' or that a Pagan even exists in *that* context.

Your lot keep claiming that others somehow take sanctity from whatever you think a book-marriage is, You keep claiming that others who are living their lives with heart and passion and love and caring are 'choosing to defy Jesus' or whatever the Hel you think you're saying.

*Our* context, son. *Our* God or Gods. Not yours.

You wanna talk about spirit, you bring some, not this talk how everyone else is 'degraded' cause you don't get it.

Capiche?

If your God don't get it, you can have him, too.

Paganplace:

I believe you have completely misunderstood my comments and have frankly taken my quote out of context.

The Bible is very clear about homosexuality. It is a sin. I do believe that you can believe in Christ and sin, in fact, I believe that in order to be a Christian you must admit that you do sin.

I am by no means saying that Ms. Etheridge has denied Christ. I have no idea what her relationship with Christ is. That is between her and God.

You are claiming that she believes in the same God as me and then seem to disparage my remarks about the words inspired by the God that Ms. Etheridge (according to you) and I believe in.

Are you claiming that the Bible is not clear on this topic? If not, then how can you call me out on pointing out a point of the Bible that Ms. Etheridge is living against and eve